Chief of staff: Army reviewing complaints over bullets

[TomInTib]

Source: Associated Press

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. - The military is reviewing soldiers' complaints that their standard ammunition isn't powerful enough for the type of fighting required in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army's highest-ranking officer said Thursday.

But Gen. George W. Casey Jr., the Army chief of staff, said it was too soon to say whether the Pentagon will switch.

Current and former soldiers interviewed by The Associated Press said the military's M855 rifle rounds are not powerful enough for close-in fighting in cities and towns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

<>

The M855 rounds were designed decades ago to puncture the steel helmets of Soviet soldiers from hundreds of yards away. Some soldiers said that they are not large enough to stop an enemy immediately in close quarters.





Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_on_re_us/army_chief_bullets

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And they've known this for how long?

[SpiralHawk]

1. "We republicons can't get anything right, can we?" - Commander AWOL

"Sure we republicon chickenhawk 'leaders' like to pretend we are military tough guys and stuff, but basically we are totally pathetic. Too bad your sons and daughters have to follow orders from a lying pResident who deserted his National Guard unit (smirk) and a VP clown war profiteer with five freaking military deferments. Bwaaa ha ha ha ha. Smirk."

- Commander AWOL

[DS1]

2. I can see that

the round is designed to wound, if I recall correctly, in order to tie up more resources and be more 'humane'

The problem is it's easily deflected.

[rsdsharp]

5. As Stoner designed what would become the M-16

it had a very slow twist rate: something like 1 in 12. That slow rate left the 56 grain bullet somewhat unstable, and it tended to break into two pieces when it hit something. Or somebody. However, it was only accurate to about 300 meters so the powers that be in the ordinance department changed the twist rate to 1 in 7 and upped the bullet weight to 62 grains.

The faster spin and heavier bullet extended the effective range, and improved accuracy but it also meant that the itty bitty projectile no longer broke up on impact. Instead, it simply punched itty bitty holes in the body and kept on going. That meant that it didn't dump all of its energy into the body. And since it is only an intermediate powered round to begin with, that decreased its stopping power. Now, with the shorter barreled M4s being the weapon of choice, the muzzle velocity is even a little lower.

And while I would love to dump this at the feet of the present administration, the M16 has been the US issue weapon since the early 1960s.

[TrogL]

3. Can their firearms handle the newer rounds?

In fact the story doesn't make any sense.

>they are not large enough

When I think "large" I think calibre. You can't put a .45 round in a .308 and expect it work.

You can't put a "long rifle" bullet in a pistol.

I'm even thinking if you have a newer type of propellent, the force will exceed the capabilities of the breech.

Sounds like what they need is an up-to-date urban weapon, not different bullets.

[TomInTib]

4. Heavier grain, maybe hollow-point

The rounds they are using have very little knock-down power.

See DS1's reply:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3330586&mesg_id=3330601

But you're right. They need better weapons. My sons have a Korean Daewoo that makes 16's look like toys.

[Dogtown]

6. Hollowpoints are a violation of the Geneva Convention...

oh, right.

Nevermind.