U.S. to double tree cutting for fire prevention in Sierra | S F Chronicle

[Ediacara]

U.S. to double tree cutting for fire prevention in Sierra
Forest Service scraps Clinton-era quotas

Lynda Gledhill, Chronicle Sacramento Bureau
Friday, January 23, 2004

Sacramento -- The U.S. Forest Service made final an ambitious plan for doubling the amount of timber cut in the Sierra Nevada forest Thursday, drawing the ire of environmentalists and only tepid support from Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's administration.

The "Forests with a Future" plan is designed to decrease catastrophic wildfires in the Sierra Nevada's 11 national forests by aggressively thinning on federal land.

Officials said the devastating wildfires in Southern California last year should be a wake-up call for action for the Sierra, where 850 communities have been classified as at risk of a catastrophic fire.

More at the San Francisco Chronicle

[religiousleft]

1. Forests with a future?

As what? Parking lots? Strip Malls? Condos?

[denverbill]

2. Do they snicker when the say for 'fire prevention' <snicker, snicker>

Yes, we'll cut down the old growth trees, leave the tiny ones and tons of debris. That will reduce the fire hazard <snicker, snicker>

[pfitz59]

4. Yep, cutting the "overgrowth" and leaving the understory.....

Tearing up the soil to promote erosion! proper thining and fire mangement would leave beautiful, park-like forests; however, I fear you observation rings true.

[jamesinca]

9. Let us not forget the other parts of this

San Diego burned from a brush fire, not from trees. They for 20 years voted down measures to raise money for the fire dept. and preventative measures. SD by the way is heavy repug.

When they do this logging it takes out an entire parcel, not the sporadic nature of a fire which is healthy. Old trees are more fire resistant than new ones. When a fire comes by it does things like open up the cones of the pines and allows them to seed. It is natures way. This clear cutting of the forest allows a stair step effect from the new growth. With this stair step the fire can reach the tops of the older trees where it would not normally reach and this creates some of the massive nature of todays fires. Also with clear cutting you have more brush and younger trees on the lots. These tend to be totally destroyed leading to erosion. Older trees will hold the soil in place after a fire comes through the area. Last but not least I think another part of the problem is we put out fires when they start and it does not let mother nature clear away all the old dead undergrowth. This only adds fuel to the fire. Controlled burns are a better way to do this, not logging.

[Lorien]

3. Fire prevention?

Profit promotion and contributor payback is more like it :grr:

[Kitsune]

6. No trees, no fire.

Neocon logic.

[yellowcanine]

8. Problem is - no trees = plenty of brush = more fires

Neocon logic not all that logical as it turns out.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

5. The Cal Fires were not in Forests-they were BRUSH Fires !

1) None of the fires took place in dense forrests--look at the location of these fires- In the So Cal Area -ALL BRUSH fires (included some trees too ) but did not occur in our national forrests where the corporate loggers are drooling.
2)These catastrophic fires simultaneously occured in 3 or 4 regions across the State. Spontaneously? When has that ever happened before?
... that just coincidentally happened just after Ahhnuld moved into the Gov's mansion
3) Q: Who didn't see this comming ?

healthy forests initiatives- clear skies initiative--they are laughing in our faces with names like this for these environmentally destructive acts

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

7. In other news

The FDA has just approved the innovative Robespierre Treatment for migraines. No head, no headaches.

[Ediacara]

10. LOL

Luckily the coffee cup was not to my lips at that moment, or I would need a new keyboard :-)

[yellowcanine]

11. good one, also new USDA strategy - no cows, no mad cow disease

This could get to be quite fun:

FAA and TSA - No airplanes, no airplane hijackings
Nat Highway Transportation Safety Admin - No cars, no car accidents
HUD - no houses, no housing violations.

[maggrwaggr]

12. how do we fight this?

that's all I want to know.

[Endangered Specie]

13. Tie ourselves to trees

[pinto]

14. the "No Tree Left Behind" initiative

[middleoftheroad2]

15. Isn't this plan reasonable?

It seems like the government is letting the forest industry take some large tress to thin the areas. And making efforts to protect sensitive areas.

It seems the only other option is to use government funds to thin the forests more selectively.

What do you do to prevent the catastrophic fires during drought years. Selective burning only? Clear cut fire breaks around towns?

It seems like a reasonable solution. I love the outdoors and spend many days afield each year. While fires are, in general, good for wildlife (as is some clear cutting for ungulates), the scope of the fires the last few years has really started to push animals out of needed areas in an increasing shrinking environment.

Would like some thoughts.

[Robb]

16. Real fire prevention thinning

...costs money, because there's no profit in it. People pay dearly for it around here (Western CO) because of the fires over the past few years.

Cutting the big trees does nothing to slow a fire's progress. You have to cut and clear all the little stuff, the real fuel. And unfortunately, most of that has no commercial value.

This is a flawed, flawed plan. Real fire prevention thinning CANNOT pay its own way.

[Blue Gardener]

17. How about not building in the forest?

If you want to live in the forest then maybe you should realize there are going to be forest fires, as Mother Nature intended. Everyone wants to live in the woods but they don't want to accept the problems that could go along with it. There are fires in the forests, there are animals called mountain lions that live there that are carnivores by nature. If you don't like the risks then don't live there!

[kwolf68]

18. Agreed

But you left out the selfish ignorance of too many. These people want what they “perceive” as living with nature, but when nature becomes too inconvenient then nature is eradicated or altered.

My mother lives by a pond and GOD FORBID…she has geese. This neighborhood full of a bunch of people with more money than sense woke up one day and realized animals liked water. DUH!!!

As far as the fire issue… It is fire prevention that has created this mess…Fires are prevented because people living in the woods think they will burn up. This is simply people reaping what they sow…Now it’s going to turn into a giant government boondoggle for the timber industry.

[hatrack]

19. Some substantial problems with the proposal

This would permit cutting of trees up to 30 inches in diameter - a.k.a. old growth. This is what the timber companies are after, in exchange for free roadbuilding and removing some of the small dog-hair stuff. These are the trees that tend to not burn during fires.

This kind of logging - almost all industrialized logging, in fact - tends to leave massive amounts of slash - debris, bark, limbs and other junk lying on the forest floor. This quickly dries out and becomes (you guessed it) fuel.

The vast majority of logging under this plan would take place in national forest and (just for grins) within the boundaries of Sequoia National Monument, far from the suburbs and mountain towns where thinning is desperately needed. Sure, some good will come of well-controlled thinning projects near where people live. Unfortunately, this kind of labor-intensive and unprofitable scrub removal will likely make up, at most, 10% of the total logging plan (if we're lucky).

They're trying to dress this up in green clothes by proposing using what scrub trees do get cut for biomass and ethanol/methanol production, but I've heard nothing about any facilities capable of absorbing the sheer volume of biomass this would produce.

It's mostly not about protecting people, towns and property, though some small advances may be made in isolated cases. It's mostly about the same old same old - getting out the cut, getting out the cut and getting out the cut.