From Starbucks to Wal-Mart, consumer pulls back

[Joanne98]

Source: Reuters

CHICAGO (Reuters) - From lattes at Starbucks to clothing at Wal-Mart, U.S. consumers are showing signs of lethargy and have retreated from their free-spending ways.

"I don't know if they're dead, but they certainly are on life support," Carl Steidtmann, chief economist with Deloitte Services LP, said of the more liberal-spending consumer, which in the past had led the boom in the U.S. economy.

But as the housing market decline moves into its second year, energy prices continue to be high and food prices jump, the consumer could actually be a drag on the U.S. economy.

"Now the consumer makes up about 70 percent of all GDP growth," Steidtmann said. "If that goes from a factor that is boosting growth to one that is (hurting) growth, that could very clearly be a factor that could lead to a recession."



Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSN1443951720070814?src=081407_1544_DOUBLEFEATURE_u.s._versus_islam

[lovuian]

1. Recession is here its going to get ugly think Hoover

cause Bush & friends are Robber Barons and he is Hoover

things are really bad for America

[Xipe Totec]

38. Hoover the vacuum,

that sucks our wallets clean?

[JoFerret]

51. Poor Hoover

He did good stuff too. But will always be associated with hoovervilles etc.

[ProudDad]

75. Uh, like what good stuff did hoover do?

Here's an example of his orientation: "As secretary and as President, Hoover revolutionized the relations between business and government. Rejecting the adversarial stance of Roosevelt, Taft, and Wilson, he sought to make the Commerce Department a powerful service organization, empowered to forge cooperative voluntary partnerships between government and business. This philosophy is often called "associationalism."

Another word for the tight bonding of "business and government" is FASCISM...

[LiberalFighter]

78. When is Bush going to tell us that we need to buy more?

[Amonester]

81. when he'll decide to mail all customers a thousand bucks each...

instead of giving billionaire bankers (who buy nothing...) a million bucks (they don't need) each.

[Virginia Dare]

2. Yay, something to look forward to...

empty big boxes and storefronts all over the place..:cry:

[rucky]

9. and all those great new American jobs along with it.

[kineneb]

62. a squatter's heaven

perhaps those buildings will be where all the homeless wind up... so they could be useful to someone...

[Virginia Dare]

64. Maybe we can start some new workhouses there...

:scared:

[kineneb]

77. Scrooge: Are there no prisions, are there no workhouses?

I sometimes get the feeling the Rs get their playbook from the pre-ghost Ebenezer Scrooge... everything they do seems to be taken directly from one of his lines early in the story.

Bah, humbug.

Next comes debtors prisons?

[Thor_MN]

84. Big boxes will be less viable as the cost of fuel goes up

I expect to see the pendulum swing back towards smaller, neighborhood stores over the next 20 years.

[rodeodance]

3. "the consumer could actually be a drag on the U.S. economy." !!

[Warpy]

4. What a shining example of economic dumbfuckery!!

He's trying to blame people instead of putting the blame on industries that have been shortchanging working people for decades while the executive class gets fatter and fatter.

[Zenlitened]

31. "Economic dumbfuckery"!!! LOL!

:rofl:

Seriously, you need to start a blog called "Economic Dumbfuckery"! I love the way you skewer these nitwits!

:yourock:

[Supersedeas]

66. everytime the business expert appears on the cable networks--we get another example

[harun]

85. You the man, two new (to me) terms to add to my arsenal

economic dumbfuckery

executive class

Thanks!
:yourock:

[mikeytherat]

8. We have a consumer-based economy, and the drag is the consumer!

"Our economy is heading down the toilet because you peasants aren't spending enough."

mikey_the_rat

[Cobalt-60]

43. I don't owe them anything

When i had three times the income I have now, I spent freely.
Since the only way to actually save money is live below your means, I spend in the shops only when forced by dire and immediate need.
Scavenged is better than used which is better than new. Buying anything but food new is a last resort.
I've discussed this with my old Grandfather and the First Republican Depression of the 30s was what drove him to become a miser.
I will emulate him an remain an aggressively cheap bastard even if prosperity does return.
The merchants have done it to themselves.
I have no sympathy whatsoever for them.

[DKRC]

48. Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without goes at our house

Doesn't it occur to TPTB that if you put enough of us out of work that we'll stop buying things we don't actually need no matter how cheaply the goods can be made in China, India, or Pakistan.

Duh.
:silly:

[Cha]

50. The corporatewhores aren't

paying enough!

[Wednesdays]

58. Yeah, and when we peasants DO spend, they look down their noses

and scoff at how we throw money around and that we're "not saving enough." :puke:

[Deja Q]

19. Funny how the consumer is blamed for everything; including things the consumer has no control over.

:shrug:

If there are no jobs available due to offshoring, it's hard for a person to get an income to go spend on a fancy coffee or some posh doilies to put the cup on!

[high density]

25. Yeah we're supposed to buy buy buy

but at the same time corporate America doesn't want to pay anybody a decent wage.

[Trillo]

32. When's the Democrats minimum wage increase due to kick in?

Maybe it's time to raise it again, didn't seem to do much yet.

[ProudDad]

76. That pissant "raise" in the minimum wage

will bring it up to the level it was in 1962...

Big Whoop...


On Edit: CEO's have had about a 5000 percent raise since 1962 and low wage workers are just being allowed to get to '62...

[NuttyFluffers]

55. we should outsource the consumer!

:silly:

[Deja Q]

68. They've been doing that for some time.

Keep an eye out on MSM articles that say "(big store name) has reported revenue loss in the US but outlets in (foreign countries) has made up the difference", et cetera.

:shrug:

[bobthedrummer]

5. It seems "almost" like a destabilization program- doesn't it? eom

[Joanne98]

10. Yes it does!

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

:hi:

[glitch]

13. Why yes, come to think of it, it does. Imagine that! nt

[Deja Q]

28. Why do it? Why has it been done for years?

A 20 year old plan, is that it?

Why is everybody who says "yes, it's a big scary destabilization plan" not bothering to add any facts to their posts? Why should readers take anything said by anyone as being words of authority? (sorry to quote zeitgeist, but it fits...)

And people say Bush engages in empty fearmongering.

[paulk]

37. well, you see, all the giant corporations aren't really in it to make

money. Once they destabilize the economy to the breaking point, then they can just take over. Yeah, that's it! Then all those poor people will be forced to buy their products at whatever price the corporations say! Oh, wait... that doesn't make any sense. All those people won't have any money because the economy will have been destroyed.

I know! It's 'cause they're evil! That's it... they're evil and they do bad things because they're evil.

[eridani]

53. They're evil because they're short-sighted

They go for the outsourcing, downsizing cheap labor profits now regardless of the effects of that policy in the long run in destroying their customer base.

Makes you miss the Jew-baiting union buster Henry Ford, doesn't it? At least he got the basic idea that if he wanted his workers to be able to afford his products he had to pay them well. In contrast, WalMart wants to stiff its employees so badly that they can't afford to shop anyplace else.

[paulk]

56. Ford definitely had the right idea

vis a vis a decent wage benefiting his business in the long run.

[Ken Burch]

82. Too bad it took the United Auto Workers, under Communist leadership in the '30s

To actually get Henry "I wrote the first draft of Mein Kampf" Ford to go with "his" idea.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

6. Face it wall street, we the consuming masses are broke

Paying for fuel and the inflated prices of our daily bread has taken its toll on us. And it's not as if we're getting cost of living wage increases to help stimulate the economy. I'm sure our pain will 'trickle up' economically to you guys soon.

[Joanne98]

7. But the Carlyle Group is still spending money..

US antitrust agency OKs Carlyle buying Manor Care
http://www.reuters.com/article/health-SP/idUSN1430304320070814

WASHINGTON, Aug 14 (Reuters) - Private equity firm Carlyle Group has received antitrust clearance to purchase nursing home group Manor Care Inc. (HCR.N: Quote, Profile, Research) for $4.9 billion, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission said on Tuesday.

Antitrust authorities reviewed the deal and decided not to stop it, the commission said in a notice.

Toledo, Ohio-based Manor Care, which owns about 500 U.S. nursing homes and senior living centers, said in early July that Carlyle Group would buy it for $6.3 billion, including assumed debt. That made Manor Care the latest health care provider taken off the public market by a private equity buyer.

[glitch]

11. Suck all the money out of an economy and guess what: consumers disappear.

It's quite intentional.

[Deja Q]

18. Intentional. Would you say "why" it is intentional?

:tinfoilhat:

[glitch]

27. Why, you're a smart hypnotoad, you've even got your very own tin hat. You can figure out why.

It's not like looting is an original concept.

Edit: Here are a few oldie but goodie articles you may've missed: http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20050502&s=klein and http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/29/6672

[eridani]

54. Not intentional, just short-sighted

Profit now; system blow-up later.

[glitch]

57. I wish I could think so but this has happened too many times in history and these people

are not stupid, contrary to the efforts of their best PR.

[eridani]

60. Intelligence is in no way incompatible with short-range thinking

It's all about next quarter's bottom line these days. They don't want to waste all those IQ points on thinking too far into the future.

[wordpix]

72. exactly. I've seen this short-sightedness on the local level all too often

in local issues like new school buildings, town spending, town buildings and the like. These are issues where I know all the ins and outs. Many of the people involved aren't stupid but ARE short sighted.

[broadcaster]

12. Funny, to blame the consumer for perhaps not being able..

to keep running up huge debt, to continue to use home equity
as a personal ATM machine, etc. That their 'liberal spending'
has subsided.

I don't suppose there are any systemic, corporate and banking
driven reasons for this? Just that these consumers got lethargic.

What a mystery.

[David Zephyr]

14. "Recession" is the one word no one wants to dare mutter, but it looms...

There is just too much "there" there. Piling high debt, insane projected deficits, a neutered dollar, subprime pressures, jittery investors, and nervous consumers...

Greenspan raised the Fed rate 17 times in a row as he planned for his "inflation-proof" exit from his old job.

As much as Bernacke needs to cut rates, energy prices continue to be very high which makes inflation still risky.

What a mess.

[niyad]

41. "recession is when your neighbor is out of work. depression is when YOU are out of work"

[killbotfactory]

15. Do they really want our economy to be driven by debt spending?

[rusty charly]

16. works for Bush!

[MatrixEscape]

17. That Newspeak is doubleplus good!

Using words like lethargy and retreat? Ha ha!

Consumers are lethargic. All at once they just became rather tired and bored of shopping spending, or so it implies. Maybe its all the meds that they have to take in order to function and keep going in a crazy paradigm?

Retreat? Great word again. Ah, so it is war then! Reading between the lines is fun because you can insert your won frame of reference and opinion, like: That says we are a bunch of sleepy and listless losers who are retreating from our consumer battle at the cash/debit registers. Our zombiesque retreat is "hurting" growth! Oh the pain that growth must be feeling. Pain I tell you! As our fearless leader might say, "The growth is being .... ah ... pained ... ah ... hurted more badly by the sleepy retreaters!"

I am just playing with the words and considering how a quick scan or a few lines of the beginning of the article sounds like an Orwellian wet dream on ice.

The reality is more in the meat of the article and the FACTS of what is going on in our day-to-day lives in this new Century of plummeting expectations and income for the classes not in the magic circle of wealth.

I think that first paragraph is very telling, and a prime example of just how the MSM spins ideas in their mental, word magic, Vege-Matic that these propaganda outlets for corporate/government interests have proven to be.

Oh, I had to add-in the "free-spending". That's Doublethink if I ever saw it. Yup, consumer spending is free! we am free to spend. Spending is a wild, voluntary action and without cost. Spending = FREE! Heheh!

[Deja Q]

21. If people felt more solid about their future, I bet they WOULD spend more.

Just a guess.

[toddaa]

23. My paychecks are lethargic and my annual salary adjustments are retreating

"Buy more shit" is not an economic policy.

[Hugin]

24. Well put...

:thumbsup:

[MatrixEscape]

42. Well,

as George Carlin put it, you have to be asleep to see the American Dream!

Your body is relaxing. Your eyelids are getting heavy, heavier. Listen to the sound of my voice. You now find yourself falling into a deep, deep, sleep. You are now in a deep trance!

Now, look, there it is! You can SEE the American Dream! Isn't it beautiful? It is real for you NOW!

When I count to three and snap my fingers you will wake up with a strong urge to get three more jobs and obtain more credit cards so that you can see that dream out of the corner of your eye all the time.

(Offer may not apply in some sectors. Only qualified buyers will be accepted. Hypnotism is for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken with drugs, Twinkies, or alcohol! Avoid driving while in trance.)

[Hugin]

20. If I weren't so "lethargic"...

I might be mad about being blamed for this mess.

[Double T]

22. wall street and corporate america beat the crap out of the 'US' consumer..........

and THEY think the 'US' consumer is dumb enough to keep coming back for more. Sorry, the consumer can't and won't come back until there are colossal changes made in America.

[Deja Q]

26. Such as?

It's funny how some media states Americans need to save more...

Then it says Americans are lethargic and won't spend.

Maybe they're trying to safe a little?

And if the concept of a steady career is impossible, more people are going to save more until they feel sufficiently comfortable to ride a few jobless months before finding another job and being able to spend again.

[Double T]

34. RETURN of decent jobs with ACTUAL living wages, credit cards........

with reasonable instead of predatory interest rates by loan shark banks, heavy regulation and oversight on free-market price gouging corporate criminals, etc.

[Deja Q]

39. I'd rather be able to save; not use cards.

And if they think debt would put people into slavery, they're not entirely right...

[melody]

29. Gosh, I guess that's what happens when they cripple unions, drive down wages, attack consumers ...

Suddenly, the little guy doesn't have any money to spend.

Even Henry Ford got why that was stupid and his elevator never went all the way to the top.

[Sapere aude]

30. Didn't they just say a week or so ago that consumer confidence was at an all time high?

WTF?

One week everything is rosie and the next it isn't.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Zenlitened]

35. I think Grovelbot just broke the irony-meter.

[AlCzervik]

40. Bwaaaaaaa!

[Virginia Dare]

46. Read the OP Grovelbot, we're in economic meltdown here..n/t

[marlakay]

36. I don't know why others have pulled back but

I have slowed my spending down to save for next season starting in spring....we have some big projects we are doing around the house and do a little every spring and summer. Also I am going on a trip next summer to hawaii and don't want to put all of it on credit...oh and trying to pay off what I already bought...

maybe people are just thinking it over....medical costs are going up so much and you never know when that will happen to you so can't forget that either...

[Justyce]

44. They outsource all the jobs, then wonder why

we're not buying their merchandise... see how well your stuff sells in the countries you sent our jobs.

[Virginia Dare]

47. I do believe the circle is about to be broken..

just how long did Wal-Mart think it could send our jobs overseas and our benefits down the crapper and still have enough American consumers left to buy their shit? I guess it's been a pretty good ride though, the Waltons will never want for anything for at least a few generations to come.

[MasonJar]

45. Let's see the logic here! The consumer is getting screwed by the

oil companies and the big business which are hiring illegals and outsourcing and their houses are in foreclosure because of loan sharks, but it is still the consumers fault.

[olddad56]

49. It's all part of the plan.

[TommyO]

52. The consumers are revolting!

random CEO: The consumers have always been revolting*















*but we need them to buy our crap!

[Deja Q]

69. I disagree.

Most people I know don't have the money to do so.

:(

[Ilsa]

59. CNN had a WalMart segment on low end-of-the-month spending.

Their consumers are barely making it to the end of the month so the last dollars left are spent on basic food. Scary. But I bet Neiman Marcus (Needless Markup) is having a great quarter!

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. No, not even them are having a good quarter

funny tihng about human psychology, when you feel squeezed you spend less

Even if you have quite a bit

[DCKit]

63. Perhaps the fact that everything on the shelves at Wallymart comes from China

Might be influencing the consumers decisions? Their business went through the roof when they had a "buy American first" program. However, once that funded their expansion beyond critical mass, they began buying from china and the quality of their products went to shit.

Starbucks doesn't buy (any?) enough fair-trade coffee and people are finally becoming aware of that as well.

Maybe the American consumer is finally waking up. Then again, maybe we're all just broke and can't afford anything but food, rent, gas, car payments and insurance.

[4dsc]

65. I cut back over two years ago

ALthough I still make very good money, I have taken a very anti-consumer stance in my life and have decided not buy anything I really don't need. Its good to see more people are doing that but for very different reasons..

[AnneD]

67. I too have cut back....

I am fortunate and have a stable job, health ins., and a classic pension. I have cut up the credit cards over 4 yrs ago and am paying down/off my credit card debts (my 1K savings takes care of all my emergencies). I drive paid for cars over 10 yrs old. I have a savings account for my vacation and Christmas so I fully enjoy these holidays 'cause they are paid for. I buy my organic veggies at a co-op so they are better AND cheaper. I buy what the co-op can't supply at the local farmers market. I haunt garage sales and pawn shops for appliances I need.

I live well below my means now. And maybe that's what some folks are doing now. I know there are many folks that are overextended. These are good folks-they just had life happen to them. Maybe they could have planned better, but sometimes there are things that you can't plan for.


I want to have my own house one day and I want to pay such a big down as to almost pay for it or pay as I go in building.
I make (actually save) by cutting out the middle man at every chance I get.

I find it amusing that those that took every opportunity to screw the middle class are now starting to feel the pinch. It is 'enlightened self interest' to pay folks a decent wage and make sure they are employed.

[Blue_Tires]

70. who has any fucking money these days? n/t

[DuaneBidoux]

71. spending has come from borrowing against houses, NOT an increasing share of the pie.

This has been hollow growth because the middle has not participated. Instead they have used their houses as ATMs. This is why this subprime mortgage mess is so bad.

[wordpix]

73. Starbucks lost me when I asked a cashier for a little extra coffee, about 1/3 cup, & she charged me

for a whole cup. I said no thanks and never went back.

I know, sounds petty but I had even brought in my own mug to fill so I was actually saving SBUX money b/c they didn't have to supply a cup. I wasn't about to spend another $2 for 1/3 cu.

[pitohui]

79. well that made me angry too but maybe an explanation

no place i ever worked charged for customer refills, the first time i went to a coffee house and was charged for the refill, well, i was so peeved i didn't go to another for years

finally the way it was explained to me is that in a coffee house you are not paying so much for the coffee as for the rental on the booth or chair so the more often you go back to get coffee, roughly correlated to how long you are hanging out there

sort of the idea they have in europe, where if you sit down at a cafe, you may be charged a higher fee than if you stand up

once i understood the reasoning behind it, okay, but when you think of it as a fee for coffee, it's just ridiculous! it's more a fee for spending more time there soaking up the ambience

[ProudDad]

74. "the consumer could actually be a drag on the U.S. economy."!!!!

"the consumer could actually be a drag on the U.S. economy."????


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

BAD CONSUMER!!!!!!


Best fucking laugh I've had all week!!!

[Mutineer]

80. Yep it's all our fault apparently

sorry but I'm really holding on to my money these days and trying to save where and when I can. I forsee disaster ahead for those who aren't doing and can't do the same.

[GeorgeGist]

83. Selfish bastard ...

consumers are a drag on the economy.

More welfare for the rich.