Shooting at Virginia Tech, Gunman at Large

[maddezmom]

Source: WSLS

Statement on the VT.edu Web site:

" BLACKSBURG, Va., April 16, 2007 -- A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows

A shooting incident occurred at West Ambler Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating.

The university community is urged to be cautious. If you observe anything suspicious or have information on the case, please contact Virginia Tech Police at 231-6411"

Read more: http://www.wsls.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSLS/MGArticle/SLS_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173350761291

---

BLACKSBURG, Va. - A shooting at a Virginia Tech dorm Monday left one person dead and one wounded, a state government official with knowledge of the case told The Associated Press.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

[HereSince1628]

1. If I see anything here in Wisconsin I'll be sure to call. But you in Blacksburg take care,

be safe!

[valerief]

2. This will be sure to muscle out any Gonzo news. nt

[Rhiannon12866]

314. I just heard that the Gonzales hearings are going to be postponed, after this.

I'm sure that you're not surprised...:-(

[valerief]

315. I just read it myself. You know, whenever something really bad

like this happens or really bad weather or something else really bad that's not politically related, I always wonder if the the Hand of Bad Men are at work.

[Rhiannon12866]

375. I wondered this, too, though it makes no sense in this case,

since this appears to have been the work of a single troubled young man. But there have been so many instances of distraction, engineered events meant to frighten the American public into accepting The Patriot Act, or manipulating the media, by this illegal and brazenly dishonest administration that we have every reason to wonder and to be very suspicious. :-(

[valerief]

377. But BlackOps can create a troubled young man with chemicals.

I thought I heard something about the kid not being identifiable because he didn't have a face and his fingerprints didn't match anything on record. And then, voila, he was a student of the school. Of course, I was only half listening to the tv, so I may have this all wrong.

[Chico Man]

3. holy crap

I'm VT alum and that sounds scary as hell.

[laruemtt]

29. hey, Chico Man -

dh is a VT alum too. this IS scary. nice to see another fellow hokie here - too bad under these circumstances.

[lizerdbits]

91. Me too

I lived in West AJ for a year too.

[Chico Man]

241. I've been in all of those buildings..

I get such a creepy feeling thinking back to those times now.. how AWFUL

[Orsino]

355. Me three.

I lived in spittin' distance of A-J, visited there, and went to engineering classes in Norris. Jesus.

[ContraBass Black]

4. There has been a disproportionate number of disasters on this campus recently.

[Roland99]

5. Really?

[maddezmom]

6. there was a shooting there last August

[piedmont]

14. Didn't involve students, faculty, or staff though

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/
"In August 2006, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff’s deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus. "

[maddezmom]

18. good point, but I'm sure it was terrifying

the thing I can't get out my mind is this is how people feel in Iraq everyday. :(

[Rhiannon12866]

376. I agree with you and

my SO made a similar point. When this terrible tragedy was taking place and students were being told to remain in their rooms, there was one young female student who was outside, talking to the local news reporter on the scene. She was obviously one of the many foreign students there and my SO speculated aloud that if her hometown was Baghdad, this terrifying day would be just routine to her...;(

[ContraBass Black]

7. In my previous years, there were no shootings or bomb threats here.

There have been tow of each in this academic year, with the frenzied closings and convergence of law enforcement that they bring.

[DemoTex]

8. My next-door neighbors' daughter is a student at VT.

They were apoplectic during that manhunt on the VT campus last year.

:scared:

[Virginia Dare]

9. Damn I know a lot of families with kids there...

very sad and tragic.

[LostinVA]

10. Good god -- again???

I hope everyone's okay.

[Carni]

63. I thought they just had one of these there recently!

How weird!

[ContraBass Black]

11. SECOND SHOOTING AT NORRIS HALL, MULTIPLE VICTIMS

[maddezmom]

12. good god

:cry:

[Beausoir]

13. Those poor kids. They must be terrified.

[maddezmom]

15. Several dead in VA campus shooting

Several dead in VA campus shooting



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BLACKSBURG, Va. (April 16, 2007) —
Virginia Tech officials are reporting multiple casuatlies after two shootings at the the Blacksburg, VA., campus.


School officials say one shooting happened in the West Ambler Johnston residence hall and another at Norris Hall. The shooter is now in custody but police are searching for any other possible suspects. Seven or eight people may have been shot.


http://www.disasternews.net/news/news.php?articleid=3505

[Maddy McCall]

19. My god.

:(

[maddezmom]

20. hopefully this is an error

and it's just injuries.

[Maddy McCall]

26. News is reporting that they are searching...

for a second shooter.

It will take them a while to figure out who's involved and what's happened.

For the students--just three weeks before semester ends--it's got to be nerve-wracking. :(

[maddezmom]

27. they have had some bomb threats there recently as well

The shootings come three days after a bomb threat Friday forced the cancellation of classes in three buildings, WDBJ in Roanoke reported. Also, the 100,000-square-foot Torgersen Hall was evacuated April 2 after police received a written bomb threat, The Roanoke Times reported.

http://us.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html

[Maddy McCall]

30. Damn.

I feel terrible for those kids. :(

[maddezmom]

34. so do I

I'm sure their parents are terrified as well.

[Maddy McCall]

32. They ARE saying " a number of shootings" on MSNBC.

Police are about to execute a planned evacuation from campus. News conference coming up.

If I were a parent, I'd be beside myself right now. Can't imagine what the families are going through. I think my kid would come home for the rest of the semester.

:(

[EFerrari]

16. Why do these idiots with guns head for SCHOOLS.

:(

[piedmont]

24. It's the source of their stress, and it's a gun-free zone.

It happens at work-places too.

[EFerrari]

28. I don't know why I'm surprised, really. Our mental health system

is a complete sham. But as someone who used to live and work at a university, this is so upsetting, saddening.

[piedmont]

31. I don't know about VT, but most universities damn near ignore mental health for students...

especially "chronic" conditions like bipolar. Someone I love was told "maybe college isn't the best thing for you" by a health center counselor! She's about to graduate with her M.S. this year.

[ContraBass Black]

36. VT has an on-campus counseling center, and makes academic affordances.

[piedmont]

44. good.

thanks for the info

[EFerrari]

39. I had trouble with anxiety at Berkeley and our MH center was great.

In fact, I got better health care there than before or since. But, who knows what it's like now -- that was 12 years ago.

In general, most public clinics in CA should be shut down because they are unsafe. They throw pills at people and don't monitor them adequately. There are some very dedicated people out there but they aren't the sleepwalking majority. :(

[Maddy McCall]

47. Most universities have PhD psychologists and psychiatrists on staff.

Very accessible for students AND faculty. The students I've referred have found more immediate and thorough help than they would have in any other setting.

[EFerrari]

50. And they're just sharper. I know plenty of PhDs in the community

that should really be doing something else and immediately. I don't remember having that experience at Cal.

[piedmont]

51. Public clinics here seem geared toward sucking Medicaid from the non-functional and drug-addicted

Their "sliding scale" is ridiculous-- if you make hardly any money at all, their services run around $300 a month. So basically, if you're trying to get rehabilitated enough to get back on your feet and work, you're screwed.

[EFerrari]

53. Exactly. Those mofos in Los Angeles nearly killed Doug.

I hate to think what would have happened to him if he'd gone there solo. They were overdosing him on the wrong meds, for one thing. The last time he flipped and I called the doctor, she said, "I can't keep doing this with you" as if it was MY doing. It was just unreal.

[piedmont]

58. The system as it is now just creates bitterness, rage, and drugged out zombies

And when stuff like this at VT happens, no-one seems to "get" that it's a symptom of a MASSIVE failure of what ought to be a major part of our health care system.

[EFerrari]

113. When I finally did, my blood ran cold. NAMI says about 6%

of the population and one in five families. :(

[Maddy McCall]

57. On many campuses, Medicaid usually isn't accepted at MH clinics.

The universities here will provide free counseling if the student has little to no income. After Katrina, counseling was free to everyone, regardless of income.

But, yeah, I agree with you in general that poor patients don't receive quality MH care.

[piedmont]

66. No I was talking about public clinics-- state-run or state affiliated

We have a supposedly "good" counseling department on my university's campus, but they are geared ONLY toward short-term, accute cases. They don't do management of "chronic" disorders-- they refer patients to the state-funded public clinic in town for that.

[EFerrari]

169. MH care in any income bracket is not great in this joint.

We have so much great tech and virtually no system of delivery, and that's true whether you are a client at a public clinic or whether you're paying a private clinican a brazillion dollars.

[elcondor]

277. Someone I love was told that too, piedmont

I'm sure that there are some universities who have good mental health programs, but it does not seem to be the norm ...

God damn it ... this is absolutely heartbreaking. When will things really change in this country? Will this ever stop? ;(

[Squatch]

33. Here's the VT Policy

The university’s employees, students, and volunteers, or any visitor or other third party attending a sporting,
entertainment, or educational event, or visiting an academic or administrative office building or residence hall, are
further prohibited from carrying, maintaining, or storing a firearm or weapon on any university facility, even if the
owner has a valid permit, when it is not required by the individual’s job, or in accordance with the relevant
University Student Life Policies.

[hogwyld]

25. Just another reason why we need

to regulate, register, ALL guns, and to even ban some through the AWB. Of course the gungeon people will say this is one isolated incident among way too many...

[Squatch]

35. AWB does not exist.

VT already has a very strict anti-firearms policy that, apparently, did not work.

"The university’s employees, students, and volunteers, or any visitor or other third party attending a sporting,
entertainment, or educational event, or visiting an academic or administrative office building or residence hall, are
further prohibited from carrying, maintaining, or storing a firearm or weapon on any university facility, even if the
owner has a valid permit, when it is not required by the individual’s job, or in accordance with the relevant
University Student Life Policies."

[ContraBass Black]

40. How would it?

In order to actually take guns from people, they would have to search every person and vehicle entering the campus, which would mean turning at least 10 streets into armed checkpoints.

[SlowDownFast]

163. How much ya wanna bet

the particular gun in this particular incident WAS REGISTERED.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

220. They already banned guns at VT.

Obviously this strategy worked.

[saigon68]

242. `

[-..__...]

272. Not in my lifetime.

"to regulate, register, ALL guns, and to even ban some through the AWB".

As long as I'm a registered voter, I will continue to oppose any more gun control laws at the Federal, state and local level, and I'll continue to support new laws that are favorable to law abiding gun owners.

And I say this as a long time NRA and Gun Owners Action League (GOAL), member.

[slackmaster]

37. A school provides a plethora of unarmed potential victims

Guns generally aren't allowed on school campuses.

[EFerrari]

49. But, don't most shootings happen between people who know

each other or have I watched too many episodes of Dragnet?

[slackmaster]

52. That may be the case, but a school provides a "safe" setting for violence

Because any defensive response has to come in from the outside.

[EFerrari]

55. So, the safe environment is actually an invitation.

I'd never thought of it that way. :(

[LiberalFighter]

270. How much more of a tragedy if every student on campus had a gun?

[slackmaster]

284. Straw Man argument

Or a false dilemma, depending on how you look at it.

My point is that the VT blanket campus ban on firearms did no good whatsoever.

[LiberalFighter]

286. It would be a straw man argument for your position as well

[slampoet]

115. because these idiots with guns go to school.?

[EFerrari]

116. Sure but they also go to a host of other public places.

:(

[Chico Man]

243. Lots of hunters at Virginia Tech

Many of my teammates there would hunt in the mornings before practice. Hey, guns are plentiful in the area, that's for sure. Take a stop at many roadside diners along interstate 81, and guns are prominently displayed on the way to the john.

[slackmaster]

251. But I'll bet not one of them has a hunting rifle stored on campus

:argh:

[Chico Man]

266. Most were living off campus at the time

I'm not sure where they would be stored.

[EFerrari]

269. Where I live, you can go your whole life without seeing one except

on a cop. The only time I've seen guns and rifles and a hunting lodge was on a visit to MO.

Are your people okay, Chico Man?

[Doctor Venmkan]

317. Evil, yes. Idiots, no - THEY KNOW THE PEOPLE THERE CAN'T DEFEND THEMSELVES!

Simple, really.

[EFerrari]

342. It looks like it.

:(

[ContraBass Black]

17. Campus e-mail has crashed.

It was the primary notification system.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

21. My sister lived in that dorm when she went there. Scary stuff.

My prayers and thoughts go out to those kids.

[Chico Man]

268. That dorm is normally claustrophobic to begin with

Must have been hell on earth

[piedmont]

22. Springtime seems to bring these out.

It's probably due to seasonal-induced mania. Summer is the main season for that, but then school isn't in session.

[rainbow4321]

214. Pressure builds up for college kids around this time..

Not that this justifies what he has done by any means....

Just talking to my daughter in college the other night...projects due in 3 different classes, finals in every class, not a whole lot of sleep on her agenda for the next few weeks.
Obviously too early to speculate in this case, but this is also the time of year that reality kicks in if a kid is failing classes.

[maddezmom]

23. One reported dead, several injured in Virginia Tech shootings

One reported dead, several injured in Virginia Tech shootings
POSTED: 11:23 a.m. EDT, April 16, 2007
Story Highlights• NEW: University reports two shootings; AP reports at least 7-8 total casualties
• University reporting that a suspected shooter is in custody
• AP: 1 dead, 1 wounded in first reported shooting on Virginia Tech campus
• Student describes situation as "mayhem"; says 2 students jumped from window

Adjust font size:
(CNN) -- One person was killed and several were wounded in two shootings on the Virginia Tech university campus in Blacksburg on Monday, The Associated Press and the university reported.

The AP reported that one person was killed and one wounded in a shooting at a dormitory. Another shooting at Norris Hall, an engineering building, resulted in multiple casualties, the university reported.

There were seven or eight total casualties in the two incidents, AP reported.

"Police have one shooter in custody, and as part of routine police procedure they continue to search for a second shooter," the university said in a written statement.

The first reported shooting occurred at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a co-ed dormitory that houses 895 students. The dormitory, one of the largest residence halls on campus, is located near the drill field and stadium.

more:
http://us.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html

[Duppers]

38. OMG

I know several students there.

My heart stopped beating for a min. when I first read "Virginia Campus" then learned it was Va Tech.
My son is a 3rd year at UVa, but he has friends at Tech.

Oh, the worry!

Too many crazy people.

[Maddy McCall]

41. At one hospital...one critical, three stable.

One dead. :(

"Other victims sent to other hospitals."

[ContraBass Black]

45. Including or excluding the one dead on the scene?

[smiley_glad_hands]

42. I hate to think the worst, but

RW Wackadoo going after the liberal elite? I hope not.

[ContraBass Black]

43. ?

This is a majority conservative campus.

[smiley_glad_hands]

48. Lived in Va all my life.

Its not totally conservative. Besides, that wackadoos consider everyone not as whacky as themselves to be liberal.

Anyway it was just a thought.

[slackmaster]

46. Most likely a disgruntled fired employee or a failed student

:argh:

[Name removed]

166. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

178. You can't seriously think this is a Cheney/Rove distraction

can you?

[Name removed]

207. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

212. No what's sad is that you would ever believe that

:eyes:

[Fenris]

229. Just because a theory is popular doesn't mean it's not completely asinine.

And the word you're looking for it "capital." "Political capitol" would be a location where a government is based.

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

352. if it was; nobody would ever find out

[Psephos]

205. That kind of thinking is only slightly less deranged than the gunman's

It's the language of cultists, and it does progressives no good, nor the country any good either.

Sociopathic gunmen are not driven by politics, and not brainwashed into murder by Bushco. If you want to break free of political cult thinking and understand the actual reasons why sociopaths hurt and kill, here's a great place to start.

The Evil We Do: The Psychoanaysis of Destructive People, by Carl Goldberg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1573928399/002-2720660-8775239

Meanwhile, I have said a prayer for the people who were shot...and I don't even go to church.

Peace.

[slj0101]

221. Wow. That's the smartest thing I've read all day.

Today's Opposite Day.

[maddezmom]

54. Hospital says 17 students are being treated for injuries

BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) -- A spokeswoman at a Blacksburg hospital says that 17 Virginia Tech students are being treated for gunshot wounds after two shootings on campus.

Spokeswoman Suzanne Barnette at Montgomery Regional Hospital did not have details of the injuries.

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=6375651&nav=S6aK

[coffeenap]

59. OMG--17!

:cry:

[maddezmom]

62. the spokesperson for the hospital also just said other hospitals

have been alerted.

[Marie26]

60. 17 victims?

Oh my God. How scary it must be for the students right now. Have they caught the gunman yet?

[blogslut]

56. These shootings are a public health crisis!

When is this country going to wake the hell up and do something about it?

[ContraBass Black]

61. 20 FATALITIES

[bicentennial_baby]

64. Just saw that....Holy crap

:(

[maddezmom]

65. is that seperate from the 17 that are in hospital?

:cry:

[piedmont]

67. Surely that's not correct?

God, I hope not.

[Marie26]

68. OMG

Is there a link? Was that confirmed by an official?

[LostinVA]

71. WTF???? Are you SURE? 20 DEAD?

Jesus Christ.

:cry:

[MissB]

74. I'm not seeing that anywhere on the web

But then again, I'm not watching a live feed. CNN and MSNBC are still reporting 1 dead, 17 injured.

[LostinVA]

77. That's what I'm seeing, too -- 17 casualties, one dead

[RebelOne]

82. All of the news Web sites are reporting that only 1 is dead.

[Beausoir]

72. I just saw that on CNN. They said gunman is dead. 20 fatalities.

Please let them be wrong.

[Maddy McCall]

78. Reported on MSNBC, too. 20 dead, 28 being treated for injuries.

:(

[Maddy McCall]

69. Just reported by a student who was shot: Shooter entered classroom, started firing.

Said shooter was an Asian man in his 20s.

Sounds like this is going to be much worse than first reported. More students hurt or killed.

[laruemtt]

70. shooter is dead -

per CNN.

[Maddy McCall]

73. Have they said if they think that it's only one shooter?

There was shooting in a classroom and in a dorm.

This is terrible.

[laruemtt]

76. one shooter as of what is known right now. n/t

[young_at_heart]

75. 20 are dead

Unbelievable!!

[piedmont]

80. That sounds like too high a proportion of fatalities

Usually with these shhotings there are more injuries than fatalities.

[ContraBass Black]

83. 20 dead, 28 injured

[piedmont]

245. Damn. I was certainly hoping it was wrong.

Apparently he was shooting at point-blank range.

[Penndems]

84. Blacksburg police chief on CNN now

Says there are at least twenty fatalities.

[young_at_heart]

85. It's on local TV

Just said 20 dead and 28 injured

[young_at_heart]

79. 20 or more people being treated for injuries

Some are critical

[Nederland]

81. VT Alum

I attended VA Tech 1985-1990. A conservative place, for sure, but I don't recall any real nut jobs. Of course, this was before the football team was good and the school got lots of press...

[hlthe2b]

187. I was there in early 80s

West Ambler Johnson Hall was my dormitory... This is so incredible. Yes, a very large university, but it always had a sort of isolated, even sleepy feel to it, compared to most large urban universities.

I am devastated. My prayers and hopes for all affected.

[greyl]

86. 22 according to VA NBC news. nt

[ContraBass Black]

87. 22 dead, 28 injured.

A most grimly incrementing count.

[Marie26]

88. Have they caught the gunman?

Was there one shooter, or more? Is this rampage over?

[young_at_heart]

89. Yes

They don't know if he killed himself or was shot by police.

[maddezmom]

90. I just watched the news conference and I'm still confused

The shooter is dead, but they said they aren't sure if the shootings are connected. :shrug:

[ContraBass Black]

96. They have two locations, hours apart, and one shooter.

[maddezmom]

105. but the police officer said he wasn't sure they were connected

I must be being dense, but would seem to me they would be connected in someway if there was only one shooter.

[krispos42]

181. I bet it was planned that way

One shooting to draw the cop away from where the massacre was taking place. Force everybody to lock down in classes. The shooter might have shot out the lock on a classroom door and opened up.

Goddamnit!

[electricmonk]

92. Live news video feed

http://www.wdbj7.com/

Look for the Top Videos section.

I have friends that go to Tech, I'm about 30 minutes away from there.

[WePurrsevere]

340. My heart and positive vibes go out to your friends, their families & you.

I truly hope they all are safe and you soon from them.

This whole thing has me stunned and my heart aching for everyone involved. :(

[Catherine Vincent]

93. 20 fatalities!

:cry:

[Scurrilous]

94. Gunman kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus

<snip>

"A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people and wounding another 21 before he was killed, police said.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said university president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

The university reported shootings at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a co-ed residence hall that houses 895 people, and continuing about two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building.

One student was killed in a dorm and the others were killed in the classroom, Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

[WestHoustonDem]

95. Just saw this. My niece goes to Virginia Tech, and is ok n/t

[Maddy McCall]

99. That's good news, WHD.

I hope that she weathers this ok. :hug:

[greyl]

100. Glad to hear she's physically ok.

I simply can't imagine what she's going through emotionally.

[WestHoustonDem]

226. I know. They went through this last year too and she had

to lock herself in her dorm room for several hours. She's got a pretty cool head on her shoulders. It's my sister (her mom) that tends to panic.

[Clyde39]

97. 22 fatalities now.....this is the worst school shooting in recent history

The worst shooting at a high school or college in recent history.....nothing compares.

[Clyde39]

101. 22 dead included shooter

[GliderGuider]

103. And it's still only half an average morning's death toll in Baghdad.

[greyl]

98. 1st 911 call was at 7:15 AM concerning multiple shootings. Classes not cancelled at that time. nt

[Roland99]

108. Well, how would the administration know of this right away and be able to act that fast?

Do *any* schools have any type of "panic button" in every dorm room or classroom? If they did, could you imagine the false alarms that would go off negating any long-term benefit?

[greyl]

114. Phone, IM, email, call the local news. Just like a damn snow cancellation. nt

[EFerrari]

We used to get fake bomb threats every semester during midterms.

We evacuated pretty fast. There's generally someone in each building tasked with safety. But you're right because every time that alarm went off, most of us grumbled and dragged our feet. :(

[Clyde39]

102. One person dead at dormitory

All the others at Norris Hall (engineering)

[thereismore]

104. This doesn't happen in Europe. There's something wrong with THIS country! nt

:cry:

[GliderGuider]

107. It happens in Baghdad. Every f#cking day. Day after day after day after day.

It hurts more when they're your own, doesn't it?

[joshcryer]

109. Yes and it happens in Somalia

Colombuia, Darfur, Sao Paluo the list can go on indefinitely. This happens in ever ghetto, in ever poor area on a daily and continual basis. When I lived in New Orleans a few years back at least 2-3 people were dying daily. Sometimes as many as a dozen.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THIS IS NOT A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY.

[hedgehog]

110. Of course it hurts more when they're your own.

It's human nature. However, just because things are much worse in Baghdad doesn't mean that what happened in Virginia today isn't horrific. A lot more people died in the tsunami than in Katrina, but dead is dead.

[CreekDog]

217. Yes, it hurts more when they are your own, whatever "your own" means

All lives are equal, but one's own pain for a loss depends on more than just the value of that life, but on the closeness and a bunch of other things. And don't sit in judgement right now, you are not God, you don't get to decide what is proper to mourn and what isn't.

[kestrel91316]

228. Why are you GLOATING over dead students?????

You sound awfully smug and superior.

[GliderGuider]

248. I'm not.

A couple of weeks ago I was listening to CBC radio. They were interviewing a Canadian soldier who had been wounded during an attack on a Canadian FOB near Kandahar. One of his fellow troopers had been killed in the attack, and the soldier being interviewed was distraught about that. You could hear him choking up with anguish. The interviewer said, "I understand the RPG knocked you out. What did you do when you came to?" The soldier replied, "I pulled myself back to my machine gun and started knocking them down." The interviewer asked, "How many did you kill?" His completely matter-of-fact response was, "Oh, about 21." I thought long and hard about the kind of disconnect it takes to grieve so much more for one trooper of an occupying army just because he's one of your own, than for 21 people you just killed who were trying to defend their own country.

I know it's a bit different because soldiers are trained to respond that way, but it drove home for me the terrible inequities involved in grieving for "us" versus grieving for "them". That burst of outrage and anger came back this morning, and caused me phrase things badly. I was not gloating. I was angry.

[IronLionZion]

282. come on it's a tragedy in any country nt

[RamboLiberal]

118. It happened a couple of times in Germany

Very recent history! 18 in 2002. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1952869.stm

11 Wounded 2006. http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,449492,00.html

History of school shootings including Europe. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1953425.stm

[MilesColtrane]

119. Unfortunately it does.

Just happens more often here.


Germany, April 2002: The Erfurt massacre was a school shooting that occurred at the Johann Gutenberg Gymnasium in Erfurt, Germany. Seventeen people were killed before the perpetrator committed suicide, including 14 teachers, 2 students, and 1 police officer.

Germany, March 2000: A 16-year-old pupil at a private boarding school in the Bavarian town of Branneburg, shot a 57-year-old teacher, who later died from injuries.

The teenager - who also shot himself - was facing expulsion from school after failing a cannabis test.

Germany, February 2002: A former pupil killed his headmaster and set off pipe bombs in the technical school he had recently been expelled from in Freising near Munich.

The man also shot dead his boss and a foreman at the company he worked for before turning the gun on himself. Another teacher was shot in the face, but survived.

Scotland, March 1996: Gun enthusiast Thomas Hamilton shoots 16 children and their teacher dead at their primary school in Dunblane, Scotland before killing himself.

[SayWhatYo]

120. Actually it does.

Although, it does seem to happen more here than it does in other countries. Then again, maybe it's just more widely reported here. I can't say for sure though. However, I do know that I've hear a few cases of similar incidents in various countries around Europe.

[Marrah_G]

190. It does happen elsewhere

You would need to put together enough european countries, taking into consideration the populations to really get a feel for how much more these incidents happen here as opposed to elsewhere.

Comparing the US to say Germany, england or france wouldn't work because the sizes are so different.

[carrowsboy]

106. Conservative douchebags already worried this will bring gun control laws

http://www.lucianne.com/threads22.asp?artnum=334816

Reply 3 - Posted by: Mr. Know-It-All, 4/16/2007 12:39:50 PM

There will be immediate calls for more gun control, while talk of immigrant control will be dissed as "racial profiling", even if the shooter turns our to be a muzzie jihadist.


Reply 5 - Posted by: GOPJihad, 4/16/2007 12:41:12 PM

What a horror!

Surely a "Gun Free School Zone" as such animals don't pull such stunts where they know their victims may actually shoot back!

The only school shootings that have been stopped in this country have been by armed students, faculty, or parents!


Reply 7 - Posted by: Ripper1, 4/16/2007 12:43:52 PM

Countdown to see how long before Bush gets blamed. 1. ... 2.....3....


Reply 13 - Posted by: rawmuse, 4/16/2007 12:48:02 PM

I agree that the very thing out of the mouths of the MSM and, sadly, even some posters here, will be a call for gun confiscation. Never mind that one armed good guy could have brought this entire affair to a conclusion before 22 people were murdered like defenseless rabbits. Prayers for the families of the dead and wounded. Prayers for all of us as a nation.

Reply 14 - Posted by: jhp, 4/16/2007 12:48:15 PM

A disarmed society is a society in danger.


Reply 16 - Posted by: killerbee, 4/16/2007 12:52:52 PM

Report I just read said his name was William Morva.

This is horrifying. I have family that went to that school and a nephew about to leave for college this fall.

Sickening. I'm glad he was caught alive though so he can be questioned before his execution.

This just ruins my day.


Reply 17 - Posted by: Rubberneck, 4/16/2007 12:52:54 PM

This will give 'em something to discuss at the NRA national meetings, which begin today.

I bet Chuckie Schumer is salivating; Sarah Brady is probably picking out Hallmark cards. Ted the Swimmer will call a press conference.


Reply 20 - Posted by: Hazymac, 4/16/2007 12:55:43 PM

This is less an argument for gun control than an argument that responsible, law abiding adults ought to carry. One properly aimed bullet could have saved over a dozen lives. Fox News is showing a picture of a chunky oriental man with a cop restraining him. The perp's head is raised, so he was definitely alive when that picture was taken.

Don't think that our Islamist enemies haven't noticed. One or several gunmen (like, for instance, those bank robbers in North Hollywood, 1997) with enough firepower, body armor, and an expectation of the 72 virginal, bashful, dark-eyed houris could kill hundreds if they were to strike in a place full of people. The only thing that could thwart them is a unexpected armed citizen. Instead, we'll get more of Sarah Brady's nonsense.

[Name removed]

227. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tomhayes]

346. Imagine that when 30+ are murdered with guns people might want to look at guns?

What DOUCHEBAGS!!!!

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

353. Might want to look at boxcutters and long-haul airplanes too.

If you want to take into account 3000 people killed.

Or Fertilizer for that matter, or pool chlorine, or Ammonia for industrial refrigerators etc ad nauseum.

Obviously the ban on guns on the VT campus worked just as planned.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

111. freepers already howling "if only the victims were armed:

To: lionheart 247365

Columbine, Luby’s restaurant and the Long Island Railway shootings come to mind here.

In those and similar other events, the only one ON THE SCENE with a firearm was the killer. One armed citizen could have stopped this long before 20 + were murdered.

And it’s too bad the shooter is tits up: He might have copped to being motivated by some radical — ahhh — religious/political philosophy if you get my drift.

If there the authorities DO find some — er — religious/political motivation, wonder how long it will take for us to learn that?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1818217/posts

[krispos42]

202. Difference between our gun nuts and their gun nuts

Note that the shooter is already a Muslim terrorist who apparently had time to come over here because the 'Dims' want to cut-and-run in the 'Central Front of the Global War on Terror'. Or sumptin'.

To out gun nuts, it too much stress with too little treatment, all thanks to the Repubs.

[The Witch]

112. This is horrific.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Sorry, no snark, comparing to deaths elsewhere, worrying about political ramifications, etc., for me. At least not in these first 24 hours.

For now,

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Someone light a candle.

[EFerrari]

121. Hug somebody.

:hug:

[Duppers]

275. yes, yes indeed

I agree with you.

I'm thinking about all the people I know at Tech, including faculty, that I don't yet know are safe.

I've been in tears.

My son is on another Virginia university campus; this could have happened there.

Yes, hug someone and tell your loved ones you love them every day, every single day.



If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. - John Dunne

[quiet.american]

117. What a horror. My god, I feel for the victims and their families. n/t

[High Plains]

122. Chief: At Least 20 Dead in University Shooting

Source: CNN

(CNN) -- The Virginia Tech Police Chief said at least 20 people were killed in twin shootings on the Blacksburg campus Monday morning.

"Some victims were shot in a classroom," Chief Wendell Flinchum said, adding that the gunman was dead.

President Charles Steger called the shootings "a tragedy of monumental proportions."

A hospital spokeswoman told The Associated Press that 17 Virginia Tech students were being treated for gunshot wounds and other injuries. Sharon Honaker at the Carilion New River Valley Medical Center told CNN that four patients had been transported there, one in critical condition.





Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html

[aquart]

123. Don't suppose they'll rethink their gun laws now.

[LostinVA]

124. Guns aren't allowed on campus, so they have no gun laws to rethink

For the record, I am firmly pro gun control and anti-handgun, but I think right now is a time for respecting the dead and injured.

[MindPilot]

125. here we go...

:popcorn:

Maybe there should be a law against shooting people. There already is? How's that working?

[Virginia Dare]

136. He's dead...I guess that's justice?...

not for the families probably. We need to wait and see how and why this person had the gun and what type it was before we pass judgement IMO. FWIW, Virginia has some of the most lax gun laws in the state. Like I said, we need to wait and see.

[slackmaster]

256. Mind if I join you?

:popcorn:

[tridim]

127. Probably not, but I bet they install metal detectors in all the buildings.

One freak goes on a shooting spree and everyone else pays by losing their freedom. Happens every time.

[uppityperson]

138. I am guessing this is your way of expressing shock and sympathy?

Tell me I am right, please or I will think bad things about you.

[bluestateguy]

146. Don't worry you'll have plenty of chances now to promote your political agenda

Heaven forbid we should learn the facts about what happened here.

:grr:

[IronLionZion]

280. Let's not capitalize on their death and suffering just yet OK?

I'm going to keep my TV off for a while. Unfortunately curiousity got the best of this cat and I logged on to DU.

Guns are banned on the campus.

[lizerdbits]

126. I lived in West AJ in 93-94.

7th floor, great view especially in the fall. Wow. This is horrible. I guess we'll have to wait to hear motives.

[Eurobabe]

128. WTF happens to people in the Spring?

Columbine 4/20, now this...unfreakingbelievable.

[puffthemagicdragon]

134. suicide rate is highest in spring

when I was in college in a psych class we learned that most suicides occur in the spring rather than the commonly thought time of winter or holidays...it is because the earth is springing with new flowers and nice weather and this time is when those that are depressed feel the darkest...because they are not springing.

[SlowDownFast]

196. Yep. Makes sense.

That's what "spring cleaning" is for...

[Roland99]

135. Goes back 14 years this week (Branch Davidian compound raid in Waco, TX)

and the Ok. City bombing a couple years later.

[senaca]

254. That was my first thought too.

Columbine, Waco, Oklahoma City etc. The chilling play "God's Country" really evoked the mindset of this particular subculture; like neo nazi. I hope this isn't right and people who follow these kind of groups are on the wane. Whether it is or not, I still don't get the type of mindset of someone taking so many lives.

[tnlurker]

129. This will be the distraction

To the gonzo hearings tomorrow. I am not saying that it was planned that way. It just will be.

[aquart]

154. 22 dead. 28 wounded.

That's a huge number of affected families and friends. And we don't know why and we don't know how and we are going to have to know.

Then there are the students and faculty who didn't see any of it, but will still be in shock. Their families and friends are affected, too.

Every college in the country is going to have to prove to parents its dorms are safe.

So, yeah.

[laststeamtrain]

130. "Gunman kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus"

BLACKSBURG, Va. - A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people and wounding another 21 before he was killed, police said.

<more>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

*

A tie with the July, '84 San Ysidro McDonalds event.

[Dr.Phool]

142. MSNBC has toll at 22 now.

[laststeamtrain]

153. Ah. So he beat the San Ysidro guy but fell short of the Luby's guy.

The Luby's guy (in Killeen, TX) killed 24.

[cssmall]

131. May all their families have peace and the courage to face this horrible thing.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tomhayes]

137. He's being a d*ck, but he's right

When we hear 30 killed in suicide bombing in Iraq (and it seems just like numbers), this is what it is live for the Iraqis.

[Kajsa]

140. WTH?

"I don't see that you have that much to weep about."

--unbelievable!

[joshcryer]

141. Oh c'mon.

Don't trivalize this.

Tens of thousands of people die from the common cold on a daily basis. That doesn't mean we can reference that in an attempt to trivialize death.

[puffthemagicdragon]

143. tasteless n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

144. Actually, about 500 are killed every day in Iraq.

It just doesn't get widely reported.

[joshcryer]

147. Yeah and 20 million people die a year due to preventable diseases.

Quite a few million of those are just from the common fucking cold.

That doesn't make this assholes statement any more right.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

148. Just a bunch of numbers, eh?

Are American college students more important than Iraqis?

[SayWhatYo]

149. Are they less important?

and not worth mention?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

151. I'd say 500 people killed needlessly by violence...

should be a more important news story than 22 people killed needlessly by violence.

On edit: meant to be reply to post #27.

[joshcryer]

165. Yeah right. Would you then say we spend our news...

...covering 24/7 dying children in Ethopia? Murderous cabals in Colomubia? How about we go into China and cover all the reports of daily executions there. Or report on how North Korea disappears people regularly?

I highly doubt you'd support the news covering the most devestating environments in the world. You wouldn't want to be seeing African children on TV all day long who are dying from disease and war on a basis that dwarfs Iraq by several magnitudes.

They're all tragedies.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

168. Yes.

Wouldn't you?

[joshcryer]

171. That would mean that it is my duty to do something about those tragedies.

Local tragedies should take precedence. I can't do anything about Ethopia, but I can help Katrina victims. Get it?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

175. You do things to help Katrina victims?

[joshcryer]

180. Yes I did.

I was a first responder with Red Cross. Spent weeks there. Then we went back and helped do cleanup.

Didn't you? Or did you just watch the TV and get all giddy about the tragedy? Fucking fucked up if you ask me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

183. And you can't go to Ethiopia and do the same thing?

[joshcryer]

186. No, I cannot. I don't have the money to do such things.

And no matter how much money you throw at the problem it's never ever ever enough.

[AngryOldDem]

182. So we cannot be outraged and saddened at both? nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

200. Where are you getting that idea?

[uppityperson]

155. No. They are not less important either. We can mourn them all.

It isn't necessary to play the game of whose death is more important.

[joshcryer]

159. Are Ethopian children less important than Iraqi's?

How about Somalians who are killed on a regular basis?

Drivers on the worlds roads (40k fatalities in the USA alone)?

These are ALL terrible tragedies. And in most cases we have NO CONTROL over them. This includes your beloved Iraq which you use to score some sick twisted point to trivialize deaths.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

167. MY beloved Iraq?

We have control over what's going on in Iraq. We certainly have more control there, than an isolated incident involving a psychotic, suicidal gunman.

Secondly, I'm not trivializing deaths. And I'm certainly not trying to justify voyeurism and media exploitation.

[joshcryer]

No you don't. You have no control whatsoever.

None. The protests against Iraq were the biggest in American history. No effect. Do not delude yourself about the power this administration has over this.

BTW, we leave Iraq right now the civil war still goes on.

Does that then mean that we should watch their civil war from afar and then talk about doing something about it?

Oh wait, that's what the surge is trying to do.

Kind of contridictary if you ask me, and it seems very malicious to want to see these tragedies and do nothing about them.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

177. Well, we can't exactly do anything about this shooting, can we?

"Oh wait, that's what the surge is trying to do."

LOL

[joshcryer]

184. Ahh, I can see discussing things with you is pretty much impossible.

Of course we can. We can talk to local school officials if we have children about putting up metal detectors (unfortunately) and hiring guards and so on and so forth. And that is precisely what is going to come of this.

BTW, yes that is what the surge is trying to do.

Do you think we should interfere in foreign civil wars or other similar issues? If not why do you insist on wanting to see them on your TV?

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tomhayes]

152. Maybe his point was that it may feel like this in Iraq

Maybe Iraqis feel like this when they hear about suicide bombings?

[Roland99]

158. BS. "I don't see that you have that much to weep about"

That's just callous. Downright callous and completely uncalled for.

[tomhayes]

174. I didn't see that part. He's half right, and he's completely wrong

Lots to mourn about for everyone.

[SayWhatYo]

164. That point was valid...

But I do not think is what is upsetting some people. It was the last part of his comment in which he pretty much said these kids didn't matter. Maybe he didn't mean it like that, maybe he did, but that is how it came across as sounding.

[GliderGuider]

188. I get a bit abrupt sometimes

Of course the deaths of these kids as individuals matters. The loss of every individual's life is important to those close to them. Most of the DU members did not know any of the victims as individuals, though. Most of us will only feel a vague nationality-kinship connection with them (and perhaps I feel less than that). My point was that in proportional terms Iraq suffers far worse losses from violence every day. The shock and horror being expressed here perhaps misses an element of proportionality due to the peculiar limitations of empathy when different national identities are involved.

In addition, the nature of the events is totally different. These deaths are the result of one deranged act, and so speak to the role of chance in the lives of Americans. Those deaths were started by American occupation and are maintained by American intransigence - as a result they speak to the role of American evil in the world.

By all means grieve for them as individuals, but save a tear or two for the deaths others - people who are no more strangers to you than these kids, but whose deaths should perhaps weigh your conscience even more.

[LanternWaste]

209. Thanks, but I've plenty of tears and sorrow to go around...

"but save a tear or two for the deaths others..."

Thanks, but I've plenty of tears and sorrow to go around. Weeping for the victims of this shooting does not, cannot and will not reduce my sympathy for the dead and wounded in Iraq. Or Somalia. Or Darfur. Or a hundred other places.

I've an infinite capacity to love and an infinite capacity to feel sorrow, and I need little coaching on who should or should not receive my sympathies and to what degree.

[GliderGuider]

211. I understand. I apologized below for my hurtful comment, and I'll repeat it here.

All I can say is it seems this thing threw me for a loop too. I got angry, and the target I picked was badly mis-chosen. I'm sorry I said what I did.

[jpak]

213. You should post your apology in GD

n/t

[GliderGuider]

218. Why? I didn't post anything on this topic over there.

[jpak]

246. Because your "well meaning" comments are the subject of at least 2 threads there

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=667512&mesg_id=667512

[GliderGuider]

252. Hmm. Looks like that thread is about others who had a similar reaction.

It's something to think about.

[jpak]

263. Yes, it makes it all OK

n/t

[GliderGuider]

264. I'll apologize for my own words, not someone else's.

My main point about the comparison to Baghdad stands. My apology was for the thoughtlessly nasty comments I used to emphasize it.

[LanternWaste]

331. No harm here. No foul here...

If I had only waited before hitting reply, I would have seen your apology posted elsewhere in the thread and saved both of us time. And to be honest, my own response was less than civil.

It's a bad day all the way around. It's a bad year all the way around. I'm surprised more of us don't go off half-cocked.

No harm here. No foul here.

[nosillies]

236. Beautifully said...thank you

:applause:

I think that sums it up.

[Chovexani]

253. ...

:applause:

[kestrel91316]

232. Do you seriously think that Americans can't walk and chew bubblegum

at the same time? That we cannot be shocked and saddened by the VaTech killings and still care about what is being done in our names but against our will in other countries???

Maybe Canadians have limited little brains and stunted little hearts like that so you assume we do, too.......

[GliderGuider]

235. No, I don't think that. Certainly the people on DU have larger hearts than I implied..

This event angered me unexpectedly, and I lashed out at the wrong target.

[kestrel91316]

244. I noted your gracious apology elsewhere on the thread. All's forgiven.

A bad day, and a bad thing to happen.

:hug:

[AngryOldDem]

172. So that is supposed to somehow put this tragedy in some kind of perspective, then?

[tomhayes]

208. No..it's supposed to put Iraq in perspective

We've had over 3,000 of our soldiers killed, and what, 20,000 wounded in Iraq. Plus the stories of 10-50 people a day being killed in suicide bombings.

If 20-50 people being killed once every 5 years in the US at a shooting is a horrible tragedy (and it is) then why don't we feel the same way about what's happening in Iraq.

If we find out the gunman(gunmen?) were listening to rock music (or rap) we'll hear about that for years. If the gunman was listening to Imus last week the media will try to spin the story that way. If the gunman ever had sex with paris Hilton it'll go that way. They'll turn it into some sort of circus, they *always* do.

This story *WILL* be spun but the media. A good focus might be "Are there other places in the world where similar things might be occurring too?"

It won't be. It'll be rap, bad parenting, or God's vengeance for allowing gays to congregate. And it'll be a tragic waste of time.

[SayWhatYo]

150. You're right, this shouldn't even be news.

This shouldn't have even been reported at all. :eyes:

[uppityperson]

161. Shame on you for trivializing these deaths, this pain.

Shame on any who trivialize ANY death.

[AngryOldDem]

170. What the hell is wrong with you? n/t

[jpak]

176. and this doesn't happen in Montreal or Toronto???? Don't think so...

and the vast vast majority of DUers oppose the fucking war in Iraq - that comment is both inappropriate *and* stupid.

[TrogL]

341. There was a school shooting in Montreal

(it's difficult to follow the thread with so many deleted posts)

Somebody went on a rampage because there were female engineering students.

[annarbor]

179. In need of attention?

How many times does one have to say "They get it" before you move on?

Focus...focus...focus...

We're talking about the school shooting now....

[Redstone]

189. You know, SOME people really ARE capable of caring about ALL human lives. Ever think

about that?

Redstone

[GliderGuider]

199. Yes, I do. I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, and I owe the board an apology.

Every death should be mourned. I know that many here grieve just as fiercely for the loss of Iraqi children, and devote much time and effort to stopping that senseless slaughter. It was an unworthy and hurtful comment, and I apologize.

[slj0101]

Among the assholeish comments I've seen today,

yours is tops. Bra-fucking-vo.

Not much to weep about? Fuck you.

[kestrel91316]

231. Still gloating, eh?

[GliderGuider]

234. No.

I wasn't gloating, and spinning my comment like that is a cheap, Republican shot. My comment was angry, hurtful and stupid, but there was no gloating in it.

[Virginia Dare]

133. One of the worst tragedies for the state of Virginia in recent times...

I'm grief stricken over this. :cry:

[Penndems]

192. I am absolutely shocked that this horrible tragedy has befell Tech

Deepest sympathy to the families and loved ones of the students, and prayers for all. :cry: :cry: :cry:

[uppityperson]

139. Oh damn, my sympathy to everyone involved, their families/friends.

[HuffleClaw]

156. what a horror n/t

[rainbow4321]

160. Jesus Fucking Christ...

Worse than UT Austin/Whitman/clocktower killings.

[RamboLiberal]

157. What is it about spring time - especially April

That this evil crap happens? Seems like that is the majority of the time it takes place.

[Rocknrule]

185. April is an evil month, it seems

In addition to this, Waco, OKC, and Columbine, it's also the birth month of Saddam, Hitler, McVeigh and I believe Charles Manson.

I wish I didn't have to have been born in April myself. Its almost like having been born on 9/11.

[ecstatic]

162. So close to graduation/summer break. This is horrible

I'm very saddened. RIP

[Rocknrule]

173. Looks like Columbine has been dethroned as the king of school shootings

*shakes head sadly*

[maddezmom]

191. Massacre at Virginia Tech: 29 Confirmed Dead

Fatalities Expected to Rise; Suspected Gunman Among the Dead

Apr. 16, 2007— At least 29 people are dead in what may be the biggest mass killing on a college campus in American history — and the death toll may rise.

Police at Virginia Tech, in Blaksburg, Va., said that the shootings happened at a dormitory and a classroom on opposite sides of the university campus.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said that one person was killed in the first shooting, which occurred just after 7 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a large dormitory. Flinchum said that at least 20 more people were killed at Norris Hall, an academic building.

The gunman, whose identity has not been released, is among the dead. Flinchum wouldn't say whether the shooter had killed himself.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574

[laststeamtrain]

193. ABC is reporting 29 dead

http://abcnews.go.com/

[ckramer]

194. Bush 'horrified' by shooting at Virginia Tech

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1631946620070416

If he could think about the suffering of Iraqi people every day he probably wouldn't order the invasion of Iraq.


Got sympathy?

[superconnected]

197. After all the iraq murders, it's hard to believe this sociopath is "horrified".

Maybe he means "glorified", but the white house publicist wouldn't let that go out.

[outofbounds]

195. Oh My God

25 Dead Students. What a horrific thing for someone to do. All the people who are touched by this unimaginable act. What a sad sad day in America. Our youth is our greatest resource, our reason for being, our future and our treasure. Words have no way to express how empty this makes me feel at this moment in time. I knew no one there or even who had children there, but I hope they can find the strength to get through this shamefully incomprehensible act.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Just heard 32 on CNN confirmed dead.

[ContraBass Black]

198. unconfirmed death too 30+

[Beausoir]

203. It's just heartbreaking. Imagine the parents..the unanswered cell phone calls.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

276. I thought I couldn't get any sadder

until I read your post. Thinking of the hysteria, fear, panic, and desperation of those unanswered cell phone calls is more than I can handle as a parent.

God be with them all--including the family of the gunner.

[flamingyouth]

201. Oh my God

This is too awful for words. :cry:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

204. unbelievable

[ContraBass Black]

206. Confirmed 32 dead.

[lpbk2713]

238. Twice as many as the *Texas Tower* sniper shootings.

Profound tragedies both.

[RL3AO]

210. Fox News reporting 32 dead

[laststeamtrain]

215. "Most mass murderers are male, white, conservative and..."

"Most mass murderers are male, white, conservative and come from relatively stable, lower-middle-class backgrounds. They are not usually adopted, illegitimate or institutionalized as children. They are usually people who aspire to more than they can achieve. They see their ambitions thwarted, and blame other people for keeping them down. They feel excluded from the group that they wish to belong to, and develop an irrational, eventually homicidal, hatred of that group. Invariably, they choose to die in an explosion of violence directed at a group they feel oppresses, threatens, or excludes them.

There are three types of mass murderers, the family annihilators, the paramilitary enthusiasts, and the disgruntled workers. They all tend to be young, white, males with easy access to weapons. Unemployment, loneliness, a family breakup, or just a tongue lashing from a supervisor can trigger their deadly rage. Though a phenomenon usually related to postal workers, it's becoming commonplace in high schools throughout the U.S., as well as in the Red Army in the former Soviet Union. Strangely, Australians and New Zealanders are also prone to sudden fits of lethal madness. Most rampagers tend to save the last bullet for themselves. Those that don't are usually declared legally insane."

http://www.mayhem.net/Crime/murder1.html

[rainbow4321]

216. Not in this case...reports are he was "Asian-American" n/t

[laststeamtrain]

230. Thanks. I'm only sporadically following the story. I have a general idea...

...that it's an 'angry, white, male' thing.

Ever been fired?

I have. Along with about 40 other people.

They accompanied us to the parking lot. Hired security people. It felt weird.

Late stage capitalism's a gas ain't it?

[brentspeak]

249. Also, there was the Jeff Wiese, Colin Ferguson, and Jennifer Sanmarco shooting rampages

One was a teenage American Indian; the second, a black man; and the third, a white woman. Mass murderers apparently take all types.

[idgiehkt]

311. yes, "10 myths about school shooters", this is from the msnbc site

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15111438/

this just applies to school shootings but parts of it surprised me.

Myth No. 1: 'He didn't fit the profile'

In fact, there is no profile. “There is no accurate or useful ‘profile’ of students who engaged in targeted school violence,” the researchers found.

The stereotypes of teens in Goth makeup or other types of dress are not useful in preventing attacks. Just as in other areas of security -- workplace violence, airplane hijacking, even presidential assassination -- too many innocent students will fit any profile you can come up with, and too many attackers will not.

“The demographic, personality, school history, and social characteristics of the attackers varied substantially,” the report said. Attackers were of all races and family situations, with academic achievement ranging from failing to excellent.

Most, but not all, have been male, though that fact alone doesn't help an adult rule in or out someone as dangerous.

(more at link)

[marshall]

362. Not Asian American, reportedly--an Asian student

Here on a student visa. I've never bought a gun, but is it that easy to buy up an artillery that a young person here from another country on a student visa can go out and purchase it?

[Bake]

219. As a parent -- this is unbearable.

You pack your child off to college -- my youngest is 700 miles away from home -- and you hope he or she will be safe. And something like this happens. They're still counting the bodies. Every one of the dead was a person (not assuming they're all students, but many were, no doubt) with life ahead of them, with parents worried about them.

This is just unbearable. Makes me want to get my son home. TODAY.

Bake

[dweller]

225. same here

and my daughter is just an hour away ... too far for me right now.

gotta compose myself, and log off to call her.

what a heartbreaking day.
dp

[FloridaJudy]

222. My prayers are with the people of Blacksburg

I remember the fear and anguish we experienced here in Gainesville over a decade ago when a serial killer was stalking the town. I cannot imagine what Blackburg's residents must be going through. What a hideous thing.

I hope this resolves soon with the minimum of damage, and that people can mourn their dead, and start putting their lives back together. It's been my prayer for a lot of places these years.

May all be safe.
May all be healthy.
May all be happy.
May all grow in understanding.

Namaste

[GregW]

223. It's starting to sound as bad as Port Arthur

After that massacre, Australia essentially banned the private ownership of firearms. Will be interesting to see the aftermath of this.

Queue NRA talking point: "If the students had been armed they would have been able to defend themselves"

[Trehuggr]

258. one of the silliest posts I have ever read

I very rarely post responses but this is something I cant ignore.
point number 1, this was a possibly preventable tragedy, if this had not been a "gun free" zone one person with a CCW permit could have stopped it before it escalated in to all these needless deaths

point number 2,there are already people trying to use the suffering and death caused by this incident for political talking points and that is absolutely reprehensible

point number 3 if this isn't an excellent argument for concealed carry then I don't know what else is. people died because of an idiotic policy forbidding anyone from defending themselves from this loon

Point number 4 this should be far more about what caused this tragedy and what we as a society can do to prevent it in the future than about gun control, which obviously didn't work here

and above all else, all of us should be deeply concerned about the both physical and mental well being of the victims, their family's and friends




may the Father of all welcome those students and teachers to his halls

[saigon68]

265. Yes it is unbelievable

Wait for the armed nut to come and kill you

[Bridget Burke]

285. Well, at least this tragedy offers a chance for people....

To push their favorite political point.

[JoFerret]

289. Yours is sillier

but - this is no time for such silliness. Let's stop all speculation, scoring points, the rushing to judgment. This is all to horrible. There will be time....there will be time...

[LostinVA]

307. oh brother

[Herman74]

330. I guess you believe that no one should leave home without...

...packing heat!!! People leaving for the office, children for school, everyone needs to have two pistols in their holsters before leaving home, right???

Yes, we can all return to the glorious days of the Old West. Trouble for you, though, is that the criminal having foreknowledge that a crime is going to be committed, draws his weapon first. And I would say that he could at least several before getting killed himself, maybe significantly more if he's wearing a bullet-proof vest.

Would you have us all be wearing bullet-proof vests too? That might well have cut down on the carnage in Virginia.

You ever stop and think what it would be like, everyone, everywhere carrying guns??? Guns on buses, subways, in malls, factories, offices, all over. Children, teenagers carrying guns (hey, they can be shot too, right??? Think Columbine). IS THIS THE KIND OF WORLD YOU WANT??

Or wouldn't it be much better IF NO ONE HAD A GUN? Those very low gun ownership rates in Europe, are you going to tell me that that is unquestionably impossible here??? No one has a gun, no one gets murdered by the gun.

Yes, as you say, "gun control didn't work here." THAT'S BECAUSE IT WASN'T EVEN TRIED

How many MORE MUST DIE before guns are eliminated from society???

[SayWhatYo]

334. There is a problem with "if no one had a gun" thing...

While it would be nice if somehow we could get rid of all the guns in the world, but that's simply not going to happen. Let's say the US enacted a law that banned all guns in the states. Short of searching every single home in the country, I don't see how that is going to make less guns on the streets(if that happened I have a feeling things might end up bad) At best, we would could get the registered owners of guns, but they often times are not the ones we have to worry about. Now, over time we would probably start to see a reduction in guns, but I doubt it will be quick and I doubt it would be much. People are very creative, and for some reason many Americans love their guns. I suspect it would just expand the black market and ultimately give more power(business) to criminal elements, kind of like the current drug policies.


Then of course there is the other part of the debate in which it's our constitutional right have guns. I'll save that debate for people who actually care if they are allowed to have guns or not...

[Trehuggr]

367. I believe everyone should be able to choose

If those who had a valid Concealed carry permit were able to carry on campus this loon might have been stopped.
and as far as gun control not being tried, the virginia tech campus is a gun free Zone, didn't seem to prevent this




FYI criminals don't generally worry about breaking laws

[-..__...]

267. Queue Brady Campaign talking point:

"This tragedy could have been averted if "common sense" gun control laws were in place".

Sure thing, Sarah. We all know what your idea of "common sense" means :eyes:

[hogwyld]

271. We need to ban ALL guns nationwide

This "isolated" crap happens all too often by people who bought their arms legally.

[-..__...]

273. Molon Labe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe#Modern_usage

[hogwyld]

320. Don't worry, we will

I'm sure the ATF is shaking in their boots as we chat...

[-..__...]

328. With 60 - 80 million gun owners in this country!

:rofl:

Even the ATF would be biting-off more than they could chew.

[hogwyld]

339. So what you're saying

Is that the gun owners would be in open sedition against this countries laws?? You only obey the laws that you agree with?

[Name removed]

350. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Paladin]

359. I Got Your Molon Labe

Thanks so much for the gun-pimping triumphalism. Really goes well with the events of the day.....

[-..__...]

363. Maybe I should have waited a few days or week or so?

Naaahhhh... screw that. My RKBA will not be compromised nor surrendered that easily.

[slackmaster]

283. I would bet that, if pushed for details, you would exempt police and military

You're all for the government having that form of power, even if it's run by Republicans.

:argh:

[hogwyld]

318. I'm less likely to be killed by the popo or military

Than I am of being off'd by some whacknut that didn't get his green M&M's

[Irreverend IX]

333. I'm glad to see you trust Dear Leader so much...

I'm sure the neoconservatives would never use the armed might of the state to oppress citizens. Tens of millions of people were killed by the own governments in the 20th century, more than any psycho shooter could ever match. That makes it pretty clear to me where the real threat lies.

[hogwyld]

337. Do you really think that if the government really wanted you

That your having a couple of guns is going to stop them??? Keep deluding yourself in thinking you can keep the government at bay. Last I recall, it didn't work out too well for Randy Weaver or David Koresh...

[NickB79]

347. Yeah, we all saw how the Iraqi Resistance folded like a house of cards

Against the military might of the US.

Oh, wait a second.....

[Irreverend IX]

351. Weaver and Koresh led isolated groups of people that got surrounded by the feds.

A real civilian insurgency would involve more hit-and-run activity; sniping would be popular because there are lots of scoped hunting rifles around. If every other household in a neighborhood had an old .30-06 deer rifle, it would be impossible for occupying forces to hold the area; they'd get shot from unexpected directions every time they rolled in.

[Elidor]

224. Why were classes in session 2 HOURS after the first shooting?

WTF? You have one dead and several wounded and nobody seems to know where the shooter is, but classes go on as normal? Heads need to roll over this. The university and the local police have totally fucked this up. There should have been a lockdown as soon as the first shooting was reported.

[qanda]

233. That's very hard to believe

You're right, heads need to roll.

[RedCloud]

240. I'm inclined to agree...

Then this maniac was allowed to shoot at people at will for minutes.

This is just horrible.

[regnaD kciN]

247. Some "lockdown"...

It sounds like that meant "everybody stay where they are and wait for the killer to come and get you, too."

To my mind, there is NO excuse for a lockdown unless you've got the police there in force to be carrying out searches in the locked-down areas.

Worse yet, according to MSNBC, after the initial dorm shooting at 7:15 A.M., "shots were heard at Norris Hall at 9:45 and 10:15." WTF???? Why they didn't have local and state troopers swarming all over Norris by 9:47 is impossible for me to understand. How many kids died in that half-hour, remaining as sitting ducks for help that never came?

(I'd also like an explanation for the early announcement before the Norris shootings, both from the school itself and the major news media, that the shooter was "in custody." Somehow, that part of the story has disappeared down the memory hole. Did the authorities arrest a possible suspect, then essentially pronounce an "all clear" just in time for the killer to re-emerge and take another thirty lives? We're talking incompetence on a criminal level.)

[Wednesdays]

371. ESPECIALLY in these post 9-11 times

Wouldn't you think there was a super-efficient mechanism for dealing with this sort of thing? Like, uh, if there was a terrorist attack?

[piedmont]

250. Yep-- much of this could have been avoided, it seems. nt

[rainbow4321]

327. I imagine once the initial shock/mourning is over

The school officials will be facing alot of questions...from the victims' parents and the media.
2 hour time lapse and the second round of killing still happened?? Our local CBS radio had an official who was at the first crime scene say that they "just assumed" it was a "domestic" incident and that the shooter had left campus. I'm thinking that in that 2 hr time span they could have flooded the campus with extra cops, warned instructors and students, perhaps put out a description of the shooter from the initial site. If it was still only 7:15 or 7:30am..cancel/postpone classes for the day!!!!!!!!! Spread the word thru the dorms to kids who had not yet probably even gotten going in the morning to STAY PUT in their dorms/rooms. Especially with so many unanswered questions looming from the 1st shooting.

[pro_blue_guy]

237. Sad day in the USA...........

My deepest sympathies, thoughts, and prayers............this is such a disturbing tragedy.........and as a college student myself, I am horrified that something like this happened.

[Penndems]

239. According to a UVa Kossack, the gunman was a six-foot Asian student from nearby Radford University

whose girlfriend, a Tech student, left him.

2. Went to her dorm room this AM - she wasn't there.

3. Shot her roommate and the RA in the dorm.

4. Went cross-campus to where she had her first class scheduled this morning, but didn't know in what room.

5. Started going into classrooms at random and shooting them up.

6. Once he was cornered - shot himself.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/16/105458/004

Blogger says "All of this is based off of rumor, second hand report, etc. but I've heard it from multiple sources."

[jmc247]

255. Rumors are bullshit

I want facts.

[spooked]

259. This info. comes from student who was shot at in a classroom

http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/msnbc/fv.htm??g=fd3e937f-476f-4358-8c77-bb56e9345d4d&f=00&fg=copy

[Penndems]

262. Same UVa student got this message from Tech:

email recd. from scene at VT (12+ / 0-)

Recommended by:MoDem, MarkC, OLinda, Paradox13, Fabian, Do Tell, se portland, condoleaser, Cassiodorus, pat of butter in a sea of grits, blue vertigo, LynneK

Names removed..

Apparently 31 are dead NAME last heard ... while the rescue squad
was in Norris looking for survivors someone called in a bomb threat...
the rescue workers were evacuated and couldn't look for more
survivors ... NAME had 2 patients who jumped out of Norris windows to
avoid getting shot. They jumped out of windows that were in classrooms
on the 2nd floor. Broke their legs/foot ... one of NAME's patients was
shot, he said only reason why he survived was because a dead guy fell
on him and covered him from shooter .. who came back and finished
everyone alive off in the room.

Welcome to DU, btw.

[Bonhomme Richard]

329. God, I hope not. I went to Radford.

Not that that would mean anything but I can't imagine.

[Penndems]

378. Turns out he was a Tech student

Everything else from the initial reports seems to be correct.

[eppur_se_muova]

257. BBC now reporting the story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6560685.stm

Today's storm is preventing medevac helicopters from landing. I don't know what things are like in VA but here in Southern MD we are having very gusty winds, up to 45 mph.

[lanlady]

260. 30 people confirmed dead

My heart is broken. My daughter's a junior at VA Tech, but thankfully she was not on campus today. This is devastating. So many young people killed, my god, what kind of society are we?

[Rhiannon12866]

261. K&R. MSNBC just said that this is the worst mass shooting in U.S. history! Yikes!

Thanks for the posting the link from WSLS. They're on the scene and MSNBC has been showing their footage all day. I sent this to my friend who is at work in VA, and just heard about this. This is so horrific that it just boggles the mind...;(

[Bucky]

281. I want to be numbed out to this. I understand the horror, but I don't get wiped out anymore

I think I'm getting used to news of mass murders lately. I'm still appalled by this news, but I can hear this stuff and feel detatched from the horror of it these days. I wish I was more fragile, but I'm not any more.

[Rhiannon12866]

291. Well, my friend, we're all numbed by the horror of Iraq. These are kids,

but there are a majority of kids in Iraq, too. I understand where you're coming from. Bill Maher said that all this constant horrible news just becomes noise in the background, since we just come too used to hearing it and it just becomes noise. It's very sad, but true, for most Americans, but more so for those who aren't paying attention. At least those of us here on DU are informed...;(

[OhioChick]

274. What a Shame....

How about spending some good money on security for our kids in schools.......with less money going for wars.

[tomhayes]

279. I don't get this remark.. expound please

Do you mean having 20 more police on every campus to respond quicker or all students being searched every time the leave or go into a building?

Can you give some examples of what you propose, or is Security one of those catch-all words that will somehow help you sort out this heinous crime??

[Bucky]

305. Tom, at times like these, people have the right to say senseless or half-thought things

Obviously it would be better to wait till all the facts come in. Sometimes the tongue can't wait that long. In a couple of days we can start to talk about what to do about it. Right now I think a board like this is just good for the typographical equivalent of screaming and pulling out our hair.

No matter what happened in Virginia today, I'm sure we're going to find out it was all senseless.

[tomhayes]

345. I just want to know

What the hell "Security" means?

[OhioChick]

358. Security means....

many different things to every different person. Security is safety to you and the ones around you. Put your child, spouse or mother in a given situation and have reasonable comfort knowing that harm will most likely not be done to them. Sure, a lot of "Security" and "Safety" is artificial and can never stop someone determined to cause harm to others from doing so. Some security steps taken in advance of a tragedy can actually prevent crimes from happening. It has already been proven that installing fake cameras in a drug store, and placing signs stating that shoplifters will be prosecuted to the fullest extent actually do reduce shoplifting incidents.

In this case of the VT shootings, what does security mean? This is a campus that yields in excess of $24,000 per student in tuition and boarding costs, with enrollment of over 26,000 students. That is $624,000,000, excluding federal grants, corporate sponsorships, research grants, and alumni donations. The campus has no surveillance system. Not in the outside campus area, nor in the public areas of the dorms. Wouldn't a simple video of the first shooting have been evidence enough for locking down the school? Would there have been an immediate description of the individual responsible for the first shooting? Would this have hindered his ability to wander the campus for over two hours before his second shooting spree?

Or is it more important for Virginia Tech's, Charles Steger to receive $663,687.00 in 2006-07 in salary?
http://blogs.roanoke.com/campuswatch/archives/administration/college_preside.html

[RL3AO]

288. Wouldnt be practical

too many buildings and even if there was a guard outside the building, he wouldnt have gotten to the shooting quickly enough.

[Blue_Tires]

278. latest: 31 dead, 17 wounded, out of that, 8 critically nt

[Jennicut]

287. This is an important tragedy to cover as it is the worst mass shooting in U.S. history

I'm 31 and graduated from college in CT in 1999 we had someone ty to shoot another person on campus (I went to Central Connecticut State U). Luckily, it was the weekend and the campus police got involved quickly. It sounds like VA Tech's security really screwed up. Allowing classes to go on while a shooter is at large? Not locking down buildings? They should have canceled all classes, locked the dorms down, and locked the halls that still had classes going on. Ridiculous! I also think while Iraq is an everyday tragedy this hits closer to home and effects parents who have children who are college students. I'm going back to school right now (just a small local community college) to get another degree and its freaking me out having to go there Wednesday. Very creepy. I don't think we should be angry that Iraq doesn't move us in this way. That is perfectly normal that it doesn't. But it effects the overall mood of this country and this is just one more thing to make us depressed.

[northofdenali]

290. Now 32 confirmed dead, including the gunman -

motive may never be known.

My god, this is tragic. :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

[tomhayes]

292. Politicization starting NOW with Jack Thompson

He's on Fox blaming it on video-games.

He won't be the last.

[Rocknrule]

295. I wonder which videogame he blamed 9/11 on

Microsoft Flight Simulator? Rampage?

Fundie asshole

[maddezmom]

293. News conference on now..33 deaths(including the gunman)

No confirmation on gunman's idenity

Over 30 being treated in hospital

[maddezmom]

294. still do not know if there is a connection between the 2 incidents

[maddezmom]

296. initial info led them to believe 1st incident was domestic in nature

[maddezmom]

297. Gunman took his own life

[maddezmom]

298. ABC reporting another shooting off campus

[maddezmom]

299. some of the doors were chained in Norris Hall from the inside

and bodies were found in many different locations

[maddezmom]

300. they secured the building and the crime scene and felt the shooter had left the buidling

and were looking for a person of interest at that time.

[maddezmom]

301. and are actively seeking information if there is another shooter

[maddezmom]

302. the only info the police will give on the deseased shooter is he's a male

I'm really thinking there was another shooter. :scared:

[routerror]

303. is the killer asian?

i heard that he is an asian. is that true?
if so, what is his nationality?

[maddezmom]

304. not confirmed in the news conference that is ongoing

Police will only confirm it's a male at this point.

[cboy4]

308. who cares

:shrug:

[Renew Deal]

309. There is a picture of what appeared to be an asian man in handcuffs.

But it has been confirmed that the shooter killed himself. I don't think that person was the shooter.

[Altean Wanderer]

365. The Asian man is the first shooter, who is the second who killed himself? n/t

[katamaran]

368. Guy cuffed in pic was school photographer

Guy cuffed in that pic was a school photographer that was tackled because he fit the description and he was trying to get close to take pics. Saw it in another forum from a student who is friends with him.

[Renew Deal]

369. Yes, information has changed a lot since my first post.

[Rhiannon12866]

312. Those are the rumors, and the way one of the injured students who was interviewed

described him, possibly Chinese and that this started as "a domestic dispute," from what they've said on MSNBC, but these are not confirmed. MSNBC said that the authorities haven't yet released this information, since it's "an ongoing investigation." *sigh* Sound familiar? :-)

[slackmaster]

313. As long as he's not a middle-aged white guy, nobody on DU cares

:eyes:

Welcome, BTW.

[Paladin]

357. What The Hell Is That Supposed To Mean?

"As long as he's not a middle-aged white guy, nobody on DU cares."

Explain yourself.

[idgiehkt]

316. upthread there is a link to a phone interview with a wounded student

he called from the hospital, he was shot in the arm, and he identifies the shooter as an asian male.

[routerror]

322. please let me know the exact URL in more detail

please let me know the exact URL in more detail

[idgiehkt]

324. here

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm??g=fd3e937f-476f-4358-8c77-bb56e9345d4d&f=00&fg=copy&

[routerror]

325. thx

blk

[mainer]

319. Just said so on MSNBC -- not that it matters

although I bet Muslims across the country are giving a huge sigh of relief that they won't be blamed for this, too.

The common thread across all mass shootings seems to be either a romantic rejection or a feeling of being "dissed" by his targets.

[maddezmom]

321. confirmed by police or from a witness?

[mainer]

323. It was some guy called in as a resource authority

I think he was either a specialist in mass shootings or an FBI guy.

Either way, it's so sad that this might stir up anti-Asian sentiment. It seems like it doesn't take much to get people feeling paranoid towards another race.

[Quetzal]

306. When I found out that students were lined up against the wall

and shot one by one, a tear went down my eye and a shiver went up my spine. I couldn't fucking believe it.

New York Times

Witnesses described scenes of mass chaos and unimaginable horror as some students were lined up against a wall and shot. Others jumped out of windows to escape, or crouched on floors to take cover.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/us/16cnd-shooting.html?pagewanted=1&hp

[0rganism]

326. wtf? was the killer a lone gunman, or a roving deathsquad?

I would think that sort of mass execution requires more than one person with a handgun -- I could be wrong, of course.

[jmc247]

360. I was thinking the same thing

[superconnected]

332. I don't get why these people lined up? Even with a guy holding a gun on them

you'd think they'd know better.

I'm a small woman, and there is NO chance I would let the gunman be incharge. Even I would charge him if I couldn't run. WTF...

[pitohui]

343. you don't know what you would do in that circumstance

many people freeze or dissociate, it's an instinct probably out of their control

[brentspeak]

349. They might have thought that if they did what they were told, they wouldn't be shot

[NickB79]

348. When I heard about this, the thought of herding them went through my mind

That was the only logical explanation for how someone could kill that many people without fully automatic weapons. Hell, he could have killed them with a .22 cal. squirrel rifle with that tactic. How fucked up and sad.

[idgiehkt]

372. this is so strange

because all the witness accounts I've heard described random shooting, with the killer speaking not at all. Derek O'Dell who was shot in the arm, said he just walked in and started shooting and reloaded and started shooting again, other than that, besides the killer leaving and then trying to re-enter the room when he realized three students were still moving around, didn't make any other motions, aside from shooting at the door to re-enter it while it was barricaded. I keep hearing about this 'lining up against the wall' thing, but then I have also heard two students say he entered the classrooms and started shooting without saying a word. Strange.

[Frank Cannon]

310. Oh, my God, this is horrible. I'm old enough to remember...

when Charles Whitman shot a bunch of college kids from the bell tower at the University of Texas at Austin in 1966. That always represented in my mind the worst case scenario of all random mass shootings, and yet he only killed half the people that died here.

I'm stunned. This is just terrible.

[WePurrsevere]

344. My husband & I were just talking about this. When I told him about

this happening he asked if it was anything like the bell tower incident. Although I was young at the time I remember watching the news about it and my parents being horrified... this is even worse... so horrible and tragic for all those victims and those that love and care about them. :(

[VTMechEngr]

335. I Don't know what to say.

And I once had classes in Norris Hall.


I'm just speechless.

[Chico Man]

336. As did I..

Hey, on another note, my family is soon moving to the Mystic area.. my wife is part of that local tribe, ya know =)

take it easy..

[IsItJustMe]

dup

[IsItJustMe]

338. Another sad day for America. Seems like we have been having alot of them for the last 6 years.

[mark414]

354. 33 dead including the gunman

holy fucking christ

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

[Name removed]

356. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jmc247]

361. This whole thing is screwed up

[Eugene]

364. Second Male May Be Involved in VA Tech Massacre

Source: ABC News

Second Male May Be Involved in VA Tech Massacre
Police Cite Person of Interest in Dorm Killing;
Dead Gunman Yet to Be ID'd

By NED POTTER, DAVID SCHOETZ, RICHARD ESPOSITO, PIERRE THOMAS
and the staff of ABC News

April 16, 2007 — A tranquil college campus in Virginia became a killing field
Monday morning. At least 33 people are dead in the worst mass shooting in
modern American history.

In a press conference tonight, Virginia Tech President Charles Steger gave a
detailed timeline of the morning's tragic events. He said a 9-1-1 call reporting
a shooting at a dormitory was made at approximately 7:15 a.m. While police
were trying to assess what they first believed was a domestic dispute, they
received a second 9-1-1 call, nearly two and a half hours later, that reported
shootings on the opposite side of campus. According to the Virginia Police
Chief Wendell Flinchum, officials have not definitively linked the two shootings.

Campus police have identified a person of interest who is not currently in
police custody. Police say the person of interest is a male who knew the
female who was killed in the original double homicide at the West Ambler
Johnston Hall dormitory. Flinchum also said he is not a student and that he
knew the female who was killed in the original double homicide.

-snip

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574

[KarmaKaize]

366. This is the 370th Message on this Subject

- The irrational loss of human life is a tragedy
- As Americans, we mourn the loss of every single American life
- As human beings, we mourn the loss of every single human being
- As members of DU, we mourn the policies of our government that have been so callous to the loss of all forms of life
- Let us dedicate ourselves every day to be aware of the evil represented by George Walker Bush and his negative influence on the prospects for peace in this world
- This dedication is a major path to self-realization, and towards the improvement of the conditions of life on this planet
- There is no higher calling at this moment in history

[Rhiannon12866]

374. Thank you for your thoughtful post, KarmaKaize.

I agree with you and welcome you to DU. We're glad to have you with us.

Rhiannon:hi:

[Big_Mike]

370. Could this tragedy have been lessened or averted if HB 1572 had been passed last year?

It seems a bill had been in front of the Commonwealth's General Assembly that would have allowed CCW permits. Given the number of combat veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan going to college, could a person who had the weapon and the mental mindset necessary have been able to defend those students?

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.

By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

...

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

...

The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

(And, most ironically, the following final paragraph. Mods please excuse 4 paragraphs, but they were more like sentences.)

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.

In our society today, there are literally thousands of, as Dave Grossman author of "On Combat" puts it, sheepdogs: the sheepdogs are those citizens who desire to protect the others from the acts of the wolves among us. Many might be frightened by the thought of armed persons among them.

I believe their fright would be less that that experienced by those students in the Engineering Wing.

[Rhiannon12866]

373. I take your point, but I disagree.

I think that we need fewer guns among the general public, not more of them, and my first thought when they were speculating about what kind of gun was used in this terrible tragedy was whether this could have been avoided if the Assault Weapons Ban had been renewed.:-(

And having this rule in place hasn't done VA Tech much good, since this is the second shooting that they have had there this year. If it had been enforced, this troubled young man wouldn't have been able to have perpetrated the violence that he did on innocent strangers. And I am speaking as someone who used to shoot competitively and was a former member of the NRA. Allowing students, whether they are trained combat vets, or not, to carry weapons is just a recipe for disaster.:scared:

My heart also goes out to the students in the Engineering Wing who showed a lot of courage in a horrific situation. If there are any heroes in this terrible thing, it's them, and I can't even imagine what a nightmare they faced or will continue to have about this terrible day.;(

[melissinha]

379. why is this incident not on front page?

its on the front page anywhere else..... all over the world.

its time to wait to get Gonzo til Thurs and to have some serious gun control conversation and emergency response

[efhmc]

380. Help me out here. Yesterday, I heard about this horrible event

first on Randi Rhodes yesterday. She and a caller both said that the first thing mentioned at the White House Press conference on the event dealt with gun rights but in the online press conference I did not hear this. Can anyone tell me where this idea came from?