Kerry says it's time to move past 'The Joke'

[sabra]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15966727/

Kerry says it's time to move past 'The Joke'
Possible 2008 candidate says country needs to think about its Iraq policy

WASHINGTON - Enough with "The Joke", John Kerry says. The Massachusetts senator and former Democratic presidential nominee said Wednesday night that it's time to move on from his botched attempt at humor before the midterm election.

Kerry had said young people might get "stuck in Iraq" if they do not study hard and do their homework. He said he was trying to poke fun at President Bush, but Bush and others accused him of criticizing the troops.

"This is getting silly," Kerry said on CNN's "Larry King Live." "The country needs to think about a policy that has young men and women at risk on a daily basis that is not working."

Kerry also said he has not decided yet whether he will run for the White House again in 2008.

[Ian David]

1. Those WMDs have gotta be somewhere.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=4738&mesg_id=4738

[Deep13]

4. Actually, George, no they don't.

:(

[Deep13]

2. That's okay, John, the rest of us have decided for you.

Had nothing to do with the joke either. I didn't like the fact that the media was looking at him instead of Bush, but I can't really blame Kerry for either telling the truth or for the RW spin machine's use of it.

[blm]

6. And then there's the anti-corruption, open government Democrats who DO WANT HIM

to be in power to open the books. The coverup wing of the Democratic party is working against him as much as the BUsh machine - wonder why?

[L A Woman]

3. It's time to move past Kerry.

What an albatross.

[blm]

8. Albatross? A dropped pronoun is worse than dropped pants?

Clinton palling around with Bush1 and supporting Bush2 policy decisions for 4 years was an albatross for ANY 2004 Dem nominee.

Kerry uncovering IranContra, BCCI and illegal wars in Central America helped take down Bush1 so Clinton could beat a sitting president. Kerry was no albatross for Clinton's campaign.

You want to submit that Clinton's very public support for Bushboy's decisions on terror and Iraq war were HELPFUL to ANY Democrat in 2002 and 2004? Let's call Clinton's VERY PUBLIC support for Bushboy and his father exactly what it was - a HUGE ALBATROSS for the entire Dem party facing elections in 2002 and 2004.

[JetCityLiberal]

55. blm

you are da bomb!!!!

dropped pronoun vs dropped pants.

I'm stealing that.

(and you are spot on with these posts)

[wisteria]

10. Now that isn't very nice, especially since he still has a lot of support and is the only

Democrat that has had our backs all along. To bad you don't get it and would rather believe lies.
He has no intention of moving on whether you want him to or not- he has important work to accomplish with our without your support. I am grateful he has been for the people all along. They don't come any better than Senator Kerry. To bad you can't see that- it is your loss.

[Deep13]

26. All that is true, but it will not win Ohio or Florida.

Plus without Dubya as an opponent, he might not even win Wisc., MN or NH.

[wisteria]

30. Keep an open mind. Bush was a tough opponent with the Rove machine behind him.

Kerry has been doing well in NH. Just keep an open mind. It is to early to discount anyone.

[Deep13]

36. A word about NH.

I frankly think the early NH primary has been killing us in the presidential races. JK is doing well there because he and his operatives live 40 minutes away. They can campaign all day and sleep in their own beds. Candidates from other parts of the country need to fly in, rent hotels and cars and pay to feed their campaign workers. This gives candidates from the North-East a decided advantage which is unfortunate since they do not resonate well in the rest of the country.

[blm]

33. Well then GOP can nominate its best debater can't they - back in 1996 the GOPs

best and smartest debater was the very popular Bill Weld.

BTW - is every other candidate going to be exempt from examination and twisting of their every word? My gosh - we know with Gore and Kerry the GOPs have to make stuff up about them because no one can find anything TRUE to hit them with.

[William769]

13. Agreed.

[wisteria]

15. Well I disagree, so I guess that null and voids your opinion.

Honestly, what has Senator Kerry done to deserve such treatment? I suppose you don't want anyone speaking up for "the people", you don't want him to challenge the administration on Iraq or to support our troops. You don't want him to fight to save ANWAR and call for other fuel alternatives. I suppose you don't want him to protect the small business man or investigate net neutrality.
Albatross? Absolutely not.

[William769]

45. Oh please.

He had his shot & blew it. End of story.

[brentspeak]

18. Uh, yeah

I have a lot of respect for Kerry, and a botched joke won't undo that.

[zonkers]

59. A decent guy but what a total chump.

[blm]

5. MSNBC still won't report accurately - stuck in Iraq, like Bush got us stuck in Iraq

Come on MSNBC - you just noticed Iraq is in Civil war - a civil war that wouldn't be happening right now if Bush HAD DONE HIS HOMEWORK and STUDIED the region and its history BEFORE deciding to invade the country.

[Ian David]

7. Who's in Iraq, What's in Afghanistan, I don't know's in Iran... n/t

[Robbien]

9. Is telling the media it is being silly the way to get them to stop

picking on you?

Don't believe that is gonna work Senator Kerry. At this time there is no fix.

[wisteria]

11. Honestly, you have lost your credibility. You never support anything he does or says.

Again, you just show your true colors.

By the way, the comment was made to expose just how "silly" an old news piece is, especially when we have more important things to deal with in the world.
The media has been very childish and spitful with their spin of this whole thing, he was calling attention to that. But then again, you wouldn't recognize that because well... you are being silly too.

[Robbien]

12. But I rarely if ever post on Kerry threads

this post is the first post in a Kerry thread in over a year or more.

Right now I am not supporting Kerry trying to do damage control on an issue which is dead. The time for damage control is past.

So I guess you are right when you say "You never support anything he says" because the first and only recent post I have made in a Kerry thread wasn't supportive.

[wisteria]

14. Sorry if I am mistaken,but I do recall you reply in other posts.

Perhaps not as recently as I thought.
As for the time being past to do damage control. I do not agree. It was impossible for him to do it sooner. He had to step aside because of the elections. It has to be about the elections and not him.
beside, exposer and a good interview can do a lot of good.

[Robbien]

17. You are right

I am the one who is mistaken. After searching DU, I did post recently about being pissed off when Kerry apologized after the GOP ordered him to do so.

Sorry. I really should stay out of Kerry threads.

[Deep13]

39. I supported him with $7000 in '04. I'm done now.

I'd like a new model. Has nothing to do with the remark, just the shitty campaign he ran.

[Joe Chi Minh]

16. It shows how bereft they are of substance, as ordinary thinking

human beings, and by it they bring yet more shame on the US in the eyes of an incredulous world. It confirms the worst opinions we have of them, in terms of the level of political discourse, adult discourse of any kind, they are capable of.

It is important that real Eisenhower-type Republicans take back their party, to spare the nation the derisive incredulity of the rest of the international community. Its articulators are themselves too risible, and their attempted wit all together too base, juvenile and fatuous to have any effect on their foreign or domestic critics, other than to imbue them with a hollow sense of superiority, which could not give them any pleasure, but must make them squirm with embarrassment on their behalf.

As if that were not enough, they must repeat it over and over again, and dwell on it endlessly, like a very young child or mentally deficient person sometimes does with something that tickles their fancy, while adults can play along with it, as if it were the height of wit and each time, pretend it was the first time they'd heard it.

[MGKrebs]

19. Doh! And we were almost there!

[w4rma]

20. Is that what they are calling it now? 'The Joke'? (nt)

[blm]

21. Well, they tried for a month to turn it into a crime, so 'joke' is progress for media.

.

[CJCRANE]

22. If Dean can recover from "The Scream"

I'm sure Kerry will recover from "The Joke".

[politicasista]

29. And Dean has done good things for the party.

And Kerry will continue to do the same. I agree with your post.

[wisteria]

34. Dean receives a lot of respect now and the media has begun to move on.

Those in our party that tried to discredit him have learned he is respected for doing a good job.
That media frenzied around that scream thing was just the most infantile thing I think I ever watched on TV.

[0rganism]

23. *now* it's time? it was time two weeks ago!

Kerry needs to get his shit together on confronting the media whores, especially if he plans on running in 2008. They will tie this "botched joke" to his neck like the proverbial albatross just to prove they can, if he lets them -- and frankly, it may already be too late.

[MGKrebs]

24. I think it is too late.

I have no doubt that Kerry would make a wonderful President, but I don't have as much confidence that he is a good candidate. The path to the White House sometimes gets ugly these days. I think you have to fight a little dirty sometimes, play rough, and have really, really good instincts for this kind of task. Kerry is more of an "elder statesmean" type to me. He does not seem to react well when getting into a pissing match.
I have the same concerns about Edwards. Too refined/planned/massaged for a presidential run.

[0rganism]

25. Kerry is over as a presidential candidate, unless he shakes the "joke"

Hell, Kerry isn't even credible as a VP at this point. Until he displays some ability for rapid response, he's dead weight on the ticket. And that's a shame, cos as you say, he'd be a wonderful president.

Edwards faces credibility problems, too, and we can already see the media whores gunning for him with the PS3 story. That was a shot across the bow right there, to what we can expect in 2008 if he runs.

Unfortunately, Gore is in the same boat: his committment to certain issues is going to open him to all kinds of spurious media ratfucking, and thus far he hasn't shown an ability to strike back within the meme-squashing time window.

While I'd like to see Clark topping the '08 ticket, he's going to have to face down the Waco thing in very clear terms, and also have some very quick non-botched answers ready for any questions of NATO activities in the Balkans.

Hillary has been getting the kid-gloves lately, IMHO there are some very influential media owners who would love to see her at the top of the Democratic ticket in 2008. Whether they'd hold off with the swiftboating until after the primary remains to be seen. She seems like someone who would respond quickly and have a low bullshit threshold, which enhances her viability in this respect. Bill had this quality too, and it served him well.

[wisteria]

27. he did rapid response this, but was shot down by our party leaders.

This will take care of itself. After all, it was all based on a lie to begin with. The public will catch on. I think it is good he is out defending himself and having people see the real guy and not the media made one.

[politicasista]

32. The bottom line is that NO candidate is above the smear

And 2008 is two years away. I wouldn't count anyone out.

[0rganism]

38. true enough, but candidate viability is how they respond to smears

If they fight back tooth & nail, and make the smearers look like eedeeyots within a day or two, the smear can backfire.

Otherwise, it sticks around, and after a certain point the meme becomes conventional wisdom, at which point it's impossible to dislodge.

[blm]

41. Kerry fought back immediately and called it a lie and media stuck with BushInc

as they always intended to do.

Webb is now seeing that it doesn't matter if and how you fight back, the corpmedia will use THAT against you, too.

The corporate media needs to be exposed for its willingness to pursue GOP storylines instead of reporting the facts.

[0rganism]

48. effect vs. intention -- recent smear attempts against Webb will backfire

for at least the following reasons:
1) his "smearable" offense showed a genuine unpoliticized uncalculated anger, an emotion with which USicans can identify
2) the president is very unpopular -- probably about 50% of the population would like to see Webb slug dubya on general principle by now
3) people can see that unlike the president, Webb actually has a direct familial tie to the outcome of the Iraq situation

You'll notice the corporate media is hedging its bets by trying to smear the rest of the Democratic party indirectly -- "Webb isn't your typical Democrat, he's a fighter," there's a lot of that kind of sentiment tossed around. They can see Webb has the high ground on this one, and this is one GOP storyline not worth pursuing.

If the Webb thing even comes up next week, I'll be surprised.

[blm]

50. My hope is that the more outspoken Dems form a wolfpack where they

start flexing greater influence within the party.

[karynnj]

35. I see what you are saying,

but you eliminate 2 people we KNOW have little REAL baggage - because they were dedicated public servants with sqeaky clean reputations. You aso eliminate a general who also likely has little REAL baggage. You eliminate Edwards over something stupid.

Hillary can be swiftboated just like the others - the biggest difference may be that real ammunition exists.

[0rganism]

42. I'm not eliminating them, I'm just looking at their potential candidacies

Since when did "REAL baggage" enter into the GOP smear campaigns of the last two decades? The Rove-ian trick is turning a carry-on satchel into an oversize footlocker that requires special shipping instructions. The longer the pause between smear and response, the harder it is to break free. Likewise, if the response is week or "nuanced", the smear gains strength by portraying the candidate as weak and uncertain in defending his/her own honor.

Of course Hillary can be swiftboated; if she runs in the general election, we can count on it. And, as you say, she may have some real skeletons in one of her closets. One question which has not been answered is how thoroughly she'll respond to it, and what her latency will be.

[MGKrebs]

56. Of all the possible negatives for Hillary,

dealing with smears surely is not one of them. She probably has more experience with and exposure to smears than anyone. She has been portrayed as the devil incarnate for going on 12 years now. Her people must know what's coming, and she must have developed some toughness by now to even consider a run.

Her problems will be elsewhere. Can she convince the left to vote for her in a primary? Can she overcome votes for the war, torture, and several others that now are counter to public opinion?

I like Clark too, but that last campaign stumbled right out of the gate. Can he put together a staff that kicks ass? Can he raise money? Can he convince Dems to vote for him over Edwards, Clinton, or Biden?

I don't think Kerry will run.
I hope Hillary doesn't run, but I think she will, and she will be tough to beat (primary AND general).

[wisteria]

28. It is never to late. 08 is still years away in political time. Things change

and people's perception of those things change all the time. Just look how Bush has plummeted as well as the support for this war.

[MGKrebs]

49. Yeah but it's not like Kerry wandered off into the wilderness

and came back after having an epiphany. There is nothing to indicate that Kerry has any better tools now than he did last time. He is a great Senator and he can continue to have a lot of influence from that seat. In fact, his seat is probably about as safe as it gets I assume. As a Senator, he could say and do almost anything to influence politics and get away with it. As a candidate, not so much.

[karynnj]

40. He fought back within HOURS of when it became an issue

Then because it was the week before the primary, he stayed quiet. As a Kerry supporter, I would have thought he was the biggest jerk in the world if he had spent that week on all the talk shows making himself the issue. There likely are others who would have done that - I am glad Kerry is not among them.

Over time, I hope people will see that he did far more to help than to hurt in 2006 and nothing in that event has anything to do with his character, intelligence and motivation.

[0rganism]

44. He was nuanced, and let the media play him like a harp

Now I agree with you that his staying out of the limelight was a good choice for the Democrats in the 2006 midterm elections. That was probably the best thing he could do at the time, and he knew it. However, it amounts to falling on his sword for the party's success, and unless he turns things around in an incredible way, he won't be a viable candidate in 2008.

[Felix Mala]

31. Mel Gibson, John Kerry and Michael Richards are sitting in a bar...

and?

[wisteria]

37. One point, Richards and Gibson actually said what they are accused of.

Kerry did nothing of the kind. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE there. Notice that no where in his comment did he even mention the troops. He's words were taken out of context. Richards and Gibson said what they said-period.

Oh, I like your Bush picture. LOL.

[BlueIris]

43. Amen. What's next? nt

[GoddessOfGuinness]

46. I'm sorry, John; but I just can't get over Dumbyass that easily.

Oh...Was he talking about a different joke?

[Renew Deal]

47. Bleachers7: Time for Kerry to just go away

:hi:

[donkeyotay]

51. Ain't it great when you can reduce a person and their career into a soundbite?

Dean - scream
Kerry - joke
Gore - wooden, invented Internets "gaff", not trustworthy, etc.
Bush - likeable guy you wanna have a beer with.

I'm at the point where I want whoever they don't like. If they like Obama, it makes me suspicious. If they say Gore can't win, I want him.

The media sucks.

[TankLV]

54. bush*: LIAR and poseur...THAT one is the one that is finally beginning to stick.

and FAILURE...

at last...

it's now a "given" that he lies - all the time - it's just the whore media still are hesitant to use that word - but it is the new paradigm...

[kimmerspixelated]

52. Apparently you should have renamed this thread: KERRY BASHERS!

[TankLV]

53. It's too late - it's part of American Folklore now...

Just like the spiders in the beehive hairdo - another urban myth that will never cease to be despite all the evidence to the contrary...

[slackmaster]

57. I'd already forgotten about it

Er, thanks, I guess, for reminding me, Senator.

[robcon]

58. I think the "joke" may be like Dean's "scream"

Always brought up when he tries to act presidential. It's a tough position - the joke was lame, but the problem was he said he'd never apologize, then the next day he apologized.