Rep. Meehan (D-MA) Targeting 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' (seeks to overturn it)

[FernBell]

Two leading House Democrats said yesterday that they intend to reverse the 13-year-old "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays and lesbians in the military when Congress comes under Democratic control in January.

Representative Martin T. Meehan, a Lowell Democrat, said he plans to hold congressional hearings early next year of the House Armed Services Subcommittee, which he is likely to chair, on a bill that would allow homosexuals to serve in the armed forces.

"We will have hearings, and then we can have an honest dialogue with members of Congress," Meehan said.

"I believe, and have always believed, that once people see the facts, it will become clear that this is a policy that actually hurts national security and hurts the military."

.......


Meehan's proposed change was backed yesterday by Representative Barney Frank, a Newton Democrat who is openly gay.



http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/11/18/meehan_targeting_dont_ask_dont_tell/

[JI7]

1. getting happy reading these headlines today

read the one of Max Baucus saying not to waste our time with social security privatization.

and read the one of Pelosi saying bringing troops home will be top priority.

and now this one of Meehan.

[rox63]

2. Meehan's my Congresscritter

Go Marty! :)

[MannyGoldstein]

3. How Dare He Turn Back The Big Dawg's Second-Finest Hour!!!

Marty must be gunning for a Senate seat.

:eyes:

[Gormy Cuss]

4. Go Marty! n/t

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

5. One thing I'll say for Democrats -- They're Slow Learners

Clinton knee-capped his own presidency (and helped the Republicans take control of Congress) by pursuing legislation that effects maybe, what, 1 percent of the population (the number of gays in the military). And now, even before we've had our majority sworn in, Democratic Congressmen want to once again spend our political capital on this non-issue.

Raise the minimum wage.
Create an affordable drug plan.
Clean up the corruption.

Oh, yeah, and end the war in Iraq.

Everything else is a distraction.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Drugs Are Only 10% of All Medical Spending

Let's go after the whole enchilada.

[Hardrada]

8. I agree. This gender stuff should not be top tier priority

when there are dire catastrophes and emergencies to be dealt with. I've always thought isues like minimum wage and cutting bloated "defense" spending should come first.

[noamnety]

24. Gender issues ARE part of war

It's not a separate issue, and I'm tired of seeing it treated as such.

The military thrives on a culture of hypermasculinity and "feminizing" the enemy (see abu ghraib). Gender as a power structure is part of the problem. This is part of the solution.

And I am tired of having entire groups of people told "your rights are a distraction."

sick and tired of being sick and tired.

[Morgana LaFey]

25. Exactly. Not only

"your rights are a distraction" but "you can wait some more. Once again. Until we're damn good and ready to THINK about granting full rights to you. Until then, we enjoy your inequality (which makes us more equal, don't you see?) way toooooo much."

Everyone without full equality in this country is always told there are more important priorities. It begins to seem t me that IF we weren't shuffled to the bottom of the "priority" list, the OTHER things people would rather address than granting us our rights might not even be problems if everybody in the country had their full rights.

I dunno. Maybe yes, maybe no. But I'd sure like a chance to see.

[ThomCat]

26. Excellent reply!

:applause:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

27. Blah, Blah, Blah...

Let me give you the world's shortest lesson in political science -- when you're not in power, you can't do jack shit for anybody.

If we're stupid enough to spend our political capital on the absurd non-issue of gays in the military, that means middle class people are going to be screwed, the elderly will be screwed, and a host of vital issues will be decided by conservatives.

Wasn't twelve years in the minority enough for you?

[Sapphocrat]

38. And when you ARE in power...

...you don't want to do jack shit for anybody. Is that how it works?

[ThomCat]

44. No, he just doesn't want to do jack shit for US!

Because we're a "fringe group from hell."
x(

[foreigncorrespondent]

48. Make that...

...anybody but his own selfish interests!

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

78. You're still refusing to get the point.

There is no reason we can't work on equal rights and insurance at the same time.

The fact is you just don't want to see equal rights. The idea clearly bothers you. You're rationalizing why we shouldn't have equal rights. Get over it.

[Sapphocrat]

84. That's right: Avoid the topic at hand. Divert, divert, divert. n/t

[ThomCat]

43. Oh yeah, the tired line of reasoning that we're the

cause of the downfall of the party.

The reason the Democratic party fell is because they didn't stand for anything. And it's people like you who congratulate the party for abandoning issues and principles. It's people like you who hurt the party.

[Zhade]

87. It's not a non-issue for GLBT military.

And here's the thing, pal - we're not waiting on your permission anymore.

You want us to wait? Too fucking bad. We're going to deal with all the issues, including this.

You won't stop us, either.

[ThomCat]

88. No, he won't stop us.

If we have to climb over him to get equal rights we'll do it. And I'll be wearing steel toed boots when I climb over him.

[Sapphocrat]

37. This "gender stuff," eh?

You know what? You've convinced me. Fuck Roe v. Wade. It's just gender stuff.

[foreigncorrespondent]

50. You go girl!!!!

If they don't stand with you, then why the fuck should you take a keen interest in something that is for them?

[ThomCat]

60. You're SO OBVIOUSLY a straight man

Only a straight man could so casually announce that "gender issues" aren't important. :eyes:

It's so nice when straight men presume to tell everyone what's important. x(

[Zhade]

89. Seems a slightly homophobic one, as well.

"Gender issues"

"hissy fit"

:eyes:

[ThomCat]

90. LOL! Yes, Just slightly.

:P

[Zhade]

86. Minimum wage is more important than equal rights?

Short-sighted thinking, IMHO.

[JudyM]

9. Rethugs opposing it will look ridiculous so it might be quick. Plus the issues you mention

aren't handled by the subcommittee he's going to chair. Not that it's *the* most important thing to be handled by his subcommittee, but I think it could be a good move politically. We'll see!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

28. It's stunningly bad move politically...

It's the House Armed Services Committee.

Do you mean to tell me that the people who pulled the lever for Democrats last week were thinking, "Let's not investigate the billions in no-bid contracts that nobody can seem to account for. No. Let's forget that. What I'm really concerned about is making sure we have plenty of gays in the military."

THE top priority for Meehan's committee is investigating how this war has been conducted and how much graft has taken place.

[ThomCat]

41. No, they were saying, "I have a list of things I want."

And a hell of a lot of people had equal rights on that list. Not everyone is a bigot.

Just because equal rights isn't on your list doesn't mean we have to use your list. Thankfully, you're not important.

[Zhade]

91. You give the party so little credit.

It's as if you think they can't multi-task.

It's also as if you don't think the effects of DADT - intimidation, blackmailing, abuse and the institutionalization of unequal protection of the law - a gay citizen being discharged just for being how they were born - matter.

It sure as hell matters to people I've known. It matters to anyone who cares about justice, too.

I absolutely agree with your last sentence, but that does NOT preclude this also being worked on at the same time. We HAVE to multitask nowadays; too much damage has been done to go 1,2,3 on the issues.

(And again: going to work for it even if you don't want us to - not your call. Sorry.)

[Breeze54]

10. It's 'only' a distraction, if YOU aren't affected!

:grr:

[davidinalameda]

14. 1%?

and where do you get your stats-Faux?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

29. You caught me...

I'm a devoted disciple of Bill O'Reilly...

Since you didn't care to do your own research, let me tell you that according to the Urban Institute, the gay population in the military is estimated at 60,000.

That's .02% of the population.

I was being overly-generous

[Sapphocrat]

40. You only wish we were .02%, Mr. Generous. n/t

[ThomCat]

47. Yeah, ask anyone in the service, especially anyone gay

or lesbian in the service how many of us there are. :eyes:

Just because we can't safely stand up and be counted doesn't mean we're not there.

[foreigncorrespondent]

51. And like statistics...

...can actually count people who cannot stand up and be counted, huh?

[davidinalameda]

64. you're ignoring the generally accepted 10% figure

I'm sure you'd have more than 60K gays and lesbians in the military if DADT was removed

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

16. In case, you haven't noticed, we're at war. We are discharging ARABIC TRANSLATORS.

Over 10,000 soldiers have been discharged under DADT, at a cost of about $364 million dollars to American taxpayers. Put the Military Readiness Enhancement act in those terms and someone has to be foolish to oppose it.

It's not a distraction issue.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

31. I don't necessarily oppose this...

But for the Democrats to come out of the gate waving the gay rights banner is exactly what the Republicans want us to do. As I said in my initial post, the Clinton Presidency was doomed because he chose (for reasons that will forever escape me) to make this the hallmark of his first 100 hundred days.

[ThomCat]

39. Bullshit.

The machinery that was set up to attack Clinton was in place while he was still campaigning, before he ever discussed Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

And we all know that they picked at any reason to attack him, and when there weren't any, they made some up. So there is no way anyone can truthfully say it's our issues that got him attacked.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

74. Just because somebody sets a trap for you...

doesn't mean you're required to step in it. Rather than talking about the issues that were important, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" became a political black hole. Clinton spent the rest of his presidency playing defense.

Remember, "It's the economy, stupid?" For reasons I'll never understand, Clinton forgot why people voted for him.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[foreigncorrespondent]

52. It isn't a question...

...of them waving the "gay rights banner" but rather it is them coming out waving an EQUAL RIGHTS BANNER. Funny I thought that was part of the Dem platform.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ScreamingMeemie]

19. "Everything else is a distraction"...

Remember that when you get upset over dead Iraqi children being called "collateral damage"...

It's not a distraction for those of us who would like to see equal rights actually enacted.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

32. Lemme get this straight...

You find no moral difference between a dead Iraqi child and a guy who lost his job? Seriously now. I want you to think about what you've just posted.

The rights of a comparative handful of people to hold a particular job, are more important than the rights of tens of thousands of people to go on living.

That's what you're telling me?

[ThomCat]

36. That's a transparent piece of B.S.

Bigots in our party have always defended bigotry by saying it's not a big enough issue. "We have bigger priorities. Maybe someday when there's nothing else to do we'll think about it."

Addressing the war in Iraq IN NO WAY means we can't address equal rights here too at the same time. If you're incapable of seeing that it's because you simply refuse to.

And we will NEVER leave it to you to tell us what the priority issues are, because you've already made it clear that equal rights would never make the list.

[davidinalameda]

82. holding a particular job?

I guess you don't care about people being discriminate against in this country

[Zhade]

93. No. That's not what the poster is telling you.

Reread his post.

You cannot dismiss equal protection under the law as unimportant. BOTH this, and the war, are important. BOTH.

[ThomCat]

20. So you think that dems are only capable of

addressing a few issues at once? All those committees, all those bills, and they can only handle 3 issues?

I'm sure it's easy for you to say that GLBT issues aren't important if you're straight. If it doesn't affect your life then it's nothing. :eyes:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

34. That is EXACTLY what I'm saying...

You know how the MSM talks about how the Democrats don't have a plan? People voted for us, even thought the polling indicates that they agreed with the MSM -- they just felt that our non-existent plan was better than what the Republicans were offering.

Now we haven't even sworn in our new majority, and every fringe group from hell to breakfast is running around waving their piece of legislation that's more important that the issues that gained us the traction that brought us back to the majority in the first place.

And to be frank, I really resent the several comments on this thread to the effect that "I don't care because I'm not gay."

Prescription drugs for senior citizens -- I'm not old and my mom can afford her drugs just fine, thanks.

Raise the minimum wages -- I make significantly more than the minumum wage, thanks.

It's not that I Don't Care. We have broader priorities that must be dealt with -- to the list in my original post I would add ballot security to ensure that our futures elections are run fairly. It's the very marrow of our political life, and if it rots from corruption, this discussion and this website will be a moot point.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sapphocrat]

42. The reason you resent being told you don't care because you're not gay...

...is because it's TRUE.

[LeftyMom]

54. Fringe group from hell?

:wtf:

Wait a minute, you're really saying it's okay to have second class citizens in America, provided Medicare pays for your Mama's drugs? Would you have said the same thing when the ERA was proposed or when Dr King was leading marches, or is equality only a priority for people who don't offend you?

[Sapphocrat]

57. That sums it up, LM.

His mama's got hers, so fuck everybody else.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

71. "From Hell to Breakfast"

It's a common expression, meaning a wide variety.

Given the list of issues demanding attention, whether or not an individual is allowed to serve in the military barely registers against 45,000,000 people with no health care, or even 7,000,000 who would benefit from a raise in the minimum wage. That's not to mention the 6,000,000,000 who are effected by global climate change.

We have a majority for the first time in twelve years, and we have the majority only until the next election cycle when we could just as easily find ourselves on the back bench again. If you're asking me to tell the rest of the world to go pound sand on account of your pet issue, I'm not going to do it. And my guess is that the Democratic leadership in Congress won't do it either.

[ThomCat]

79. Nobody is telling you not to work on those other issues.

Go ahead. Just don't stand in our way.

You may be intellectually incapable of having several goals at the same time, but the rest of us aren't that limited.

[LeftyMom]

80. Pet issue?

Holy fucking shit, do you have any idea how offensive that is? To imply that the equality of all Americans is a mere pet issue? If somebody said that in front of me I'd slap the piss out of them, and I'm straight.

There's no reason a Democratic congress can't address equality issues, health care, the minimum wage and climate change. They have two years and they certainly aren't married to the vacation-heavy non-schedule of the current crop of do-nothings.

[Zhade]

95. Equal protection under the law is not a 'pet issue'.

It's justice.

And we're going to work on it without you. I suggest you devote your attention to the issues you claim to be so passionate about and just leave us to work on those AND this.

We're not asking for your help if you don't want to work on this. But don't stand in our way, because we're not going to stop fighting for our rights just because you don't like it.

If you don't like that, you CAN go pound sand.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

62. "Every fringe group from hell"??????

Every fringe group from hell????

You know what, I could care less that "you don't care". You're the last person I would want on my side. Fringe group from hell my ass, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

75. 'then learn how to read.' Uggh.

I won't be reading anything of yours again, actually.

[ThomCat]

81. Read your own prior post

and take resposibility for your own words before you call other people illiterate.

[Zhade]

94. We're not a fringe group. We're human beings, like you.

We deserve equal protection under the law, like you.

There is nothing stopping us from getting that done, and dealing with the war, at the same time.

That is, unless you don't WANT us to have equal protection under the law.

[ThomCat]

97. I think it's obvious that he doesn't want us to be equal under

the law. He apparently likes it that we're marginalized, excluded, harassed, bashed and kept separate.

x(
And I'm sure you know exactly how pissed off I am at people who feel that way.

[Zhade]

98. I just wonder what's wrong with their mind.

Bigotry makes no sense to me. Never has. It's a throwback to a less evolved state of mankind.

[ThomCat]

100. It feels like it's rooted in selfishness

as if somehow just working for equal rights changes his world or takes something away from him.

Because you know the world is supposed to revolve around what he wants. :eyes:

[foreigncorrespondent]

45. Honey...

...if it wasn't for people like you, then all queers would come out and you would find yourself in the minority for a change.

1% indeed.

[williesgirl]

7. Strongly feel we should stick to our agenda - 6 in 06 - then get out of Iraq.

Everything else can wait.

[ThomCat]

21. Fortunately for all of us

you're entirely wrong, and the government is very capable of multitasking.
x(

[Sapphocrat]

49. Well, bully for you. I'll just go fuck off now.

Not.

[foreigncorrespondent]

59. So...

...how much longer must Sapph and I wait before we are able to actually live in her country together. We haven't lived together in her country (The U.S.) since I had to leave in January of 2002. Tell me, would like to live apart from your partner like that? And further on ly seeing that partner once a year for four weeks if you are lucky? Sapph and I haven't even see each other this year period. And due to the lack of cash right now, not likely to either.

Wait indeed. When you are ready, willing and able to wait for your rights, then you have a right to tell others to wait.

[Sapphocrat]

63. Don't waste your breath, fc.

As long as it doesn't affect them, they have no empathy.

I do, however, eagerly await the day they end up getting fucked over on one of their "trivial" issues. Karma be damned; when they ask for my support, I'll sit back and laugh in their tear-stained little faces.

[foreigncorrespondent]

65. Yes...

...I reckon I will join you for that. :)

[Zhade]

96. You can do that.

We'll push for both, thanks.

Not waiting for permission from straight people ONE SECOND LONGER.

Don't like it? Oh well.

[hedgehog]

11. I have to admit to some ambivalence on this.

I want equal rights for my gay daughter, but I also want a way to keep my kids out of any draft that might be instituted. Having them go in and announce that they're gay is a lot easier than shooting them all in the foot!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

15. There are an estimated 65,000 GLBT soldiers serving in our military currently.

I'm sorry, but I believe that they deserve deserve protection. They don't even have any standing if they are being harassed over their perceived sexual orientation. Soldiers are being beaten and some have been killed due to our country's policy.

Honestly, I prefer to worry more about people who are already suffering under this policy, than what may happen to somebody in some hypothetical draft situation.

[hedgehog]

18. I guess it is too serious to joke about.

Sorry for the misplaced humor.

[Sapphocrat]

46. Way too serious, yes. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

12. Here we go again

Will the MSM and the Pubbies give us points for being noble this time? Doubt it. The military will scream and we'll get killed. Maybe we should save this for the end of our 12-year hold on Congress instead of floating it before we even take power.

[ThomCat]

22. Right. If we wait long enough

that magical perfect moment will arrive when everyone will spontaneously decide to do the right thing.

And besides, it's not like we GLBT people really deserve equal rights. Right?

:sarcasm:

[Zhade]

99. No more waiting for us.

You can hold back on working for equal protection under the law for all Americans, but we won't.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

23. Yes, it's nice when they decide to wear their neon signs.

:grr:

It's time to start making lists.

[foreigncorrespondent]

69. Me too!

Just how I wanted to spend my Sunday afternoon. Putting phobes in their place! ;)

[rodeodance]

17. Dems can multitask. Yappa dappa DOOOOOOOOOOOO

[ckramer]

30. My advice to Martin T. Meehan

the reason Americans sent democrats back to Congress is not for THIS.

Keep doing trivial things like this, Democrats will lose the Congress quickly, AGAIN.

Let's focus on economy, the deficits, Iraq war, national health care, education, social security...

Democrats, don't waste your political capitals!!!!!!!

[Sapphocrat]

53. "trivial things like this"

Then you don't give a shit about our troops -- not just the gay troops, but ALL of them.

[ThomCat]

56. Right, because equal rights is always a non-issue.

Let's maintain the discrimination that the fundies and neo-cons use over and over and over again as proof that we're evil. Of course we are, even the Democrats say so by admitting that we can't serve in the military.

All that does is give the republicans a weapon. Best to fight now and take it out of their hands.

An integrated army went a long way towards advancing civil rights for African Americans. It can do the same thing for GLBT people too.

[IndianaGreen]

68. We have gays and lesbians serving in the military right now

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (DADT) is nothing but a blank check for witch hunts, and for rape. Rape? There have been many incidents in DADT was used to get servicewomen to submit to sexual advances. The female victims were told that if they didn't have sex they would be accused of being lesbians and would be thrown out of the service. In every case that I am familiar with, the victim was a straight woman.

BTW, civil liberties are not a trivial thing!

[wickerwoman]

76. Americans sent Dems to congress because Bush was weak on security

and kicking skilled people out of the army at a time when we don't exactly have a wealth of fluent Arabic, Farsi, Chinese and Russian translators is just fucking stupid.

So yes, Virginia, this is why the people of the U.S. put Dems back in power.

[LeftyMom]

83. The struggle for equality is never trivial, nor is doing the right thing.

Congress has two years, provided they meet more often than the last batch (who set new records for least days worked) they have plenty of time to address other vital issues.

[Zhade]

101. Equal protection under the law is not trivial.

And we're working on it even if you don't like it, so get used to it - we're not stopping just because of some people's political cowardice.

[Jamastiene]

102. Right. Also, how dare all us uppity gays point out that

we are never going to stop Al Quaeda as long as we keep firing translators that our military desperately needs? We should just shut the fuck up and let the decision makers for our military continue to shit and fall back in it. Yes, we uppity gays are asking for THIS AGAIN; equal rights for those gay people who want to be able to serve our country. How dare we ask for that?

[tavalon]

33. I agree, but....

I really think we have so many really crucial things to reverse, I think this should be a little further down the list.

[ThomCat]

58. The fact that the army is losing more people than it's

taking in, and that there is going to be a mass exodus as soon as the stop-loss orders ends means that the military needs everyone it can get.

Kicking out gays doesn't make sense when the military is hemeraging. And sending a message that you support discrimination when the fundies keep making it THE issue in elections, doesn't help the Democratic party. It plays right into Republican hands.

Or are you one of the people who thinks we win by giving in over and over again? x(

[foreigncorrespondent]

61. Yep!

The fact that the army is losing more people than it's taking in

All that because bigots don't want the U.S. military to look weak and sissy. Funny that though, I come from a country where we have equal opportunity in our armed services and I would love one of these bigots to come out and tell one of our SAS boys that they are weak and sissy because they have faggots and dykes serving with them.

[tavalon]

66. No, I'm one of those people

who thinks we shouldn't be waging wars of aggression and I think that gays, women and even men shouldn't have to be in combat. Sure, sometimes things like WWII happen and we have to do what we have to do but we need to bring all the troups home. Then, we can talk about these sort of issues.

[ThomCat]

67. I agree with you about when we should use the troops

but that's an entirely separate issue from who should be allowed to be the troops.

And equal rights is always an issue. If we can't address it now, then when?

[Zhade]

85. YES!

Excellent! Do it!

[mcscajun]

103. Locking

This thread has become a flamefest.