German ministers 'knew about CIA torture cells' in 2001

[sarahlee]

Note that I first posted this story at 1:17 AM and it got a couple of replies, then a moderator thought it was part of the Germans with skull picture story which it is NOT and combined it with that story. Easy enough mistake to make. So I was given permission to repost it. This is worse and demonstrates that the US started torturing people right after 9-11-2001.

The skull story demonstrates continued cooperation.

The German government is alleged to have received first-hand evidence that the CIA began torturing terrorist suspects at secret prisons in Europe shortly after the September 11 attacks, despite claiming it only knew about such sites through the media.

Stern magazine quoted a leaked German intelligence report yesterday which said that only weeks after September 11 2001, two agents and a translator visited a US military prison at the American "Eagle Base" in the Bosnian town of Tuzla, where they saw a torture victim.

The German intelligence report said US interrogators at the base had beaten a 70-year-old terrorist suspect with rifle butts and that "his injuries meant that he had to be given 20 stitches to the head wound he sustained". The report said the American interrogator responsible "appeared to be proud" of his actions.

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article1927129.ece

Here is an English language report from Deutsche Welle on what is known so far about the forthcoming stern article:

During a visit to the US military base in Tuzla, in northeastern Bosnia, two officers from Germany's federal police (BKA) and a translator for the German foreign intelligence service (BND) discovered that suspects held there were beaten savagely, the magazine said in an early extract from its edition that is set to come out on Thursday....German investigators recorded what they saw in an intelligence document, which the magazine used as the basis for its report.

It said a 70-year-old terror suspect needed 20 stitches to his scalp after he was repeatedly hit over the head with a rifle butt while being held at "Eagle Base," as the US camp is called.

The soldier who had beaten him was "visibly proud" of his conduct, the magazine quoted the report as saying.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2213792,00.html

Yep, our guys were clubbing a 70 year old man....

There should be more International coverage of this coming out in Europe today. Watch for it. And make sure our media gets the story.

[sui generis]

1. hey, but we knew about it first

we're still number one.

[Heidi]

2. Recommended.

And I'll be back in a few hours to kick this. It's important information.

[sarahlee]

4. Many thanks

The scandal, in the US as in Germany, is not simply torture and abuse (though that by itself is horrific). The deeper scandal is the culture that permits, excuses, and covers up torture and abuse.


Judge Orders Release of Abu Ghraib Child Rape Photos
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/14864

How much do we need to know before we demand that this not be done in our name with our tax dollars?

[Heidi]

5. Bitte.

:D

My husband, DU Mod Call Me Wesley, is Swiss, and I've asked him to keep an eye in the German media for this story.

[sarahlee]

6. It was posted at the

European Tribune blog as well, so I figured I would check back there late tonight to see if they have reported anything new on it as well.

Thanks for alerting your husband.

[Recursion]

12. European news cycle is a little different from the US

They often still hold to quaint ideas like fact-checking (probably because they have much weaker libel defenses than we do), so this might take a day or two to check out.

[maddezmom]

3. thanks for posting

again. :) K&R

[saigon68]

7. IT'S JUST SHITTING AND GRINNING

A MERE FRAT PRANK




[sarahlee]

9. More horrible photos of the rapes here

http://weazlsrevenge.blogspot.com/2006/10/sign-of-whats-next-to-come-our-boys.html

[Zodiak]

11. I do not think those are real

From what I understand from other postings on this site, those pictures are from porn rape-fantasy sites. The first and last were done in Mexico, and the second one looks to be a caucasian female, so I doubt that is an authentic picture, as well.

If so, those women gave consent.

But I am only repeating what I have seen here. I have no direct evidence myself.

It is also probably why these photos have not been picked up by even the media on the left.

The real photos, I would imagine, are far worse.

[sarahlee]

13. Thanks for that info

I would certainly hope so and I hope that the photos the ACLU is getting are not worse than that.

[Solly Mack]

8. Link from the Guardian claims a deal was made between the CIA and Germany

"According to a secret intelligence report, the CIA offered to let Germany have access to one of its citizens, an al-Qaida suspect being held in a Moroccan cell. But the US secret agents demanded that in return, Berlin should cooperate and "avert pressure from EU" over human rights abuses in the north African country."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1931693,00.html

[peacetalksforall]

10. The truth - we need the truth. This proves torture was in the

plan from before PNAC's imperialistic invasion. It didn't just evolve.

We need to see the PNAC plan.

I think Mr. Kristol should be invited on a few programs to answer some questions about his part in writing the plan.

They didn't just happen to say let's do some inhuman things in Tuzla and someone answered yeah let's do it.

[sarahlee]

14. I agree - esp. since Cheney

has said agreed with a definition of water-boarding as "dunking" prisoners and that it is a "no brainer" for him that we should do it to save lives.

From his interview with Scott Hennen:

Q I've heard from a lot of listeners -- that's what we do for a living, talk to good folks in the Heartland every day -- and I've talked to as many who want an increased military presence in Iraq as want us out, which seems to be the larger debate, at least coming from the left -- cut and run, get out of there. One fax said, when you talk to the Vice President, ask him when shock and awe is coming back to Iraq. Let's finish the job once and for all.

And terrorist interrogations and that debate is another example. And I've had people call and say, please, let the Vice President know that if it takes dunking a terrorist in water, we're all for it, if it saves American lives. Again, this debate seems a little silly given the threat we face, would you agree?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I do agree. ...

Q Would you agree a dunk in water is a no-brainer if it can save lives?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: It's a no-brainer for me, but for a while there, I was criticized as being the Vice President "for torture." We don't torture. That's not what we're involved in. We live up to our obligations in international treaties that we're party to and so forth. But the fact is, you can have a fairly robust interrogation program without torture, and we need to be able to do that.

And thanks to the leadership of the President now, and the action of the Congress, we have that authority, and we are able to continue program.

http://unbossed.net/index.php?itemid=1142

And

Cheney confirms that detainees were subjected to water-boarding

WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney has confirmed that U.S. interrogators subjected captured senior al-Qaida suspects to a controversial interrogation technique called "water-boarding," which creates a sensation of drowning.

Cheney indicated that the Bush administration doesn't regard water-boarding as torture and allows the CIA to use it. "It's a no-brainer for me," Cheney said at one point in an interview.

Cheney's comments, in a White House interview on Tuesday with a conservative radio talk show host, appeared to reflect the Bush administration's view that the president has the constitutional power to do whatever he deems necessary to fight terrorism.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/15847918.htm

[Heidi]

15. Kick.

:kick:

[sarahlee]

16. Anything else showing up in media

in your part of the world?

And thanks for the kick.