Report: Jetliner had near-miss just after take-off from Tampa

[Haole Girl]

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=42143

Report: Jetliner had near-miss just after take-off from Tampa

Tampa, Florida — A British Airways jetliner with 175 passengers aboard went into an emergency descent minutes after take-off from Tampa International Airport when a collision avoidance system activated indicating a collision with another plane was imminent, the FAA confirmed Friday night.

But the FAA said the jet and a twin-engine private plane were never close enough to pose a danger to each other.

The incident happened October 10th when the British Airways jet was about 50-60 miles north of Tampa. The London Daily Mail newspaper called it a "near miss" but the FAA said the planes were a mile apart vertically, and 1,400 feet horizontally and never in danger of colliding.

"There was never a loss of separation," said FAA spokesperson Kathleen Bergen. "There was no near miss."

[BootinUp]

1. The collision avoidance system

needs a little tuning I would say.

[karlrschneider]

7. Why? It obviously did what it was intended to...????

...
Maybe it's "tuned" a little TOO tightly - maybe that's what you meant.

[BootinUp]

8. I think the emergency descent was

not necessary based on the info in the story. Of course the pilots didn't know that at the time. I would suggest the system should have given them a less urgent warning first and info on where the threat was.

[karlrschneider]

10. Well, TCAS-II does show conflicting traffic on a display.

From the article:

"Bergen said when the pilot of the private plane reported to an air traffic controller that he had visual contact with the British Airways jet, the air traffic controller cleared the jetliner to climb to 16,500 feet. The pilot did not acknowledge the clearance, she said.

The jetliner then descended about 600 feet, she said, and the pilot reported the emergency collision avoidance system alarm had warned him: "descend, descend, descend."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something is wrong with this report. I find it somewhat inconceivable the departing jet had gotten
50 miles away and still was below 16,500 feet (which is not even a 'legal' altitude for IFR flight.)

What is -not- clear from this piece is what altitude -either- plane was at when this occurred.

[mcscajun]

2. KC2

Please be aware that DU copyright rules require that excerpts of copyrighted material be limited to four paragraphs. Thanks.

[Haole Girl]

3. Sorry I didn't know

It's fixed now!

[mcscajun]

4. Nicely done.

have a great evening!

:hi:

[LostinVA]

5. It's always those little private pilots... Jeebus

[karlrschneider]

6. That's a stupid comment. The BAC pilot was the one who failed

to follow radio procedures and there was no danger in any case.
:eyes:

[BootinUp]

9. The way I read it they

were responding to the "emergency warning" before the air traffic control told them to climb. The ATC did not think there was an emergency.

[LostinVA]

12. Why the need to call me stupid and eyeroll?

Totally unnecessary -- and against DU rules.

Did that make you feel important or something?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. Probably happens every ten minutes.

[Hawkowl]

13. Not really

I generally only have it happen to me about once a year. And I do about 1000 flights a year. The controller cleared the jetliner to climb after the private plane acknowledged seeing the jetliner and promised to avoid him. However, the jetliner did not see the private plane and when they received the TCAS warning and it is MANDATORY that the crew comply with the warning IF they do not have the traffic in sight. The TCAS system doesn't base its warning on proximity alone, but also on RATE OF CLOSURE, both vertically and horizontally. This is opposed to an ATC classification of a near miss which is based on distance only. Meaning, that the TCAS is slightly more forward looking and hence more conservative.

So to speculate, what often happens is that the jetliner had leveled off, as per ATC instructions, until either pilot could see the other aircraft. Then when the private plane saw the jetliner, this allowed ATC to clear the jetliner to climb. Well during the level off the jetliner has picked up speed and can now convert this speed into a substantial climb rate, e.g; 3000- 5000 feet per minute, which given the proximity of the two planes would definitely set off the TCAS.

Hope this helps explain things from my airline captain perspective.