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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:11 PM
Original message
Republicans stand to profit from nuclear test ‘fear factor’

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/ae37de30-57b3-11db-be9f-0000779...

Republicans stand to profit from nuclear test ‘fear factor’

Within hours of North Korea’s proclaimed nuclear test yesterday Dennis Hastert, the Republican speaker in Congress, and John Boehner, the Republican majority leader on Capitol Hill, issued politically charged statements. With only a month to go before mid-term congressional elections many Republicans believe the tests could help restore their waning prospects.

“This reckless move by North Korea highlights the importance of a US missile defence shield capable of protecting America against madmen with weapons of mass destruction,” said Mr Boehner. “It is time for the Democrats . . . to abandon their long-standing policy of voting against missile defence programmes. It is now clear that such a position would put Americans in danger.”

Republicans almost always benefit from any rise in the “fear factor” among voters in the US. However, Monday’s move by Pyongyang could cut both ways. “Democrats can point to the zero progress that George Bush has made on the ‘Axis of Evil’ states since he identified them almost five years ago,” said Bob Einhorn, who was a senior official in the Clinton administration dealing with North Korea in the late 1990s. “Iraq is a fiasco, Iran is close to getting nuclear weapons, and North Korea already has them.”

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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. I speculated that very thing this morning and everyone told me no way
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I knew they would spin this thing and use it for gain.
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Don't think so.
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 12:22 PM by charlyvi
If they try to peddle the "republicans are better for national security" line, people will have one thing on their minds---the Iraq clustrfuck. How can we fight nukes and a reasonably competent NK army when we can't even succeed in Iraq? A nation that had no nukes and an ineffective armed force. They can't spin Iraq anymore; therefore, they've lost all credibility on NK.

on edit: If I'm scared, I'm certainly not going to trust an incompetent idiot to keep me safe. Spin or no spin.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
34. fear factor may not work that well
based on snippets and comments heard around on the blatherhead shows - it seems the attitude is "how the hell can we afford another mess?"

With Afghanistan becoming increasingly volitile, Iraq in a mess, troops on 3rd-4th rotaion into Iraq, a Congress that refuses to take responsibility and hides behind their rubberstamps - an attack on North Korea would not sit well.

While a fear of a nuke attack is on people's list - they are also not automatically assuming the repubs are the one that can handle it. The repubs have backed bush's "toilet assumption" policy (flush it and ignore it) when it comes to North Korea, Iran and elsewhere - and look where it's gotten us.

One pundit pointed out bush's policies when it comes to dealing with hostile or difficult countries is to refuse to talk to them. Gov. Richardson (NM) said the same thing in an interview yesterday. Richardson urged following diplomatic avenues and use of a carrot/stick approach.

Give it a day or so and and GOPers will brand Richardson as an "appeaser".

If GOP does try to run with the NK-nuke fears, we'll be given a false choice between fight or die. Remember, at this point in time - GOPers have only one tactic: Smear - and one issue: Fear
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. also....
----Snip----
Monday’s tests could help the Republicans regain control of the news agenda. “Our message has been blown off course in the last few weeks,” said Saul Anuzis, head of the Republicans in Michigan, one of the key battleground states. “To the extent this focuses people’s minds on the dangers America faces it will help Republicans.”


what does this quote say about the "concern" of the repubs? It says they are concerned with retaining power as opposed to being concerned about our country.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. He Who Lives By The Sword; DIES By The Sword!
“This reckless move by North Korea highlights the importance of a US missile defense shield capable of protecting America against madmen with weapons of mass destruction,” said Mr Boehner. “It is time for the Democrats . . . to abandon their long-standing policy of voting against missile defense pro grammes. It is now clear that such a position would put Americans in danger.”

The undeniable TRUTH is...Since Bush started the War under false pretenses in IRAQ. The World has been in a state of chaos. Foreign countries are nervous and fearful of Bush's lack of diplomatic policy. Who can blame them for feeling the need to protect themselves against US aggression. Seeing the Republican leadership is devoid of honesty, character and respect, even to the smaller Congressional issues.

What treatment can we expect? When the Republican leadership should be expecting bench warrants, but instead have chosen to living a LIE!


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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wishful thinking.
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Kipling Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Fear leads to insecurity. Insecurity leads to the Right.
People who are insecure want to cling to old orders and believe in authority. They also like to have someone to hate. The Right fills those needs.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Well, it'll work on some of 'em. But not on everyone.
There will be at least some others who consider the question - "are the republi-CONS REALLY making you safer?" - and will be forced to vote no - or just skip it entirely and stay home.

Here's my take on it, anyway...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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wholetruth00 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. You are right. It's the failed rambo policies of GW that has caused
N.Korea to go nuke.
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sutz12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hopefully, Dems start pounding the "Incompetence factor" nt
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. a profound policy failure
This is an attempt to change the subject. This effort is equally inept as every GOP policy decision.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. I don't think a majority
of Dems are opposed to investing in missile defense, it is the amount of money they want to spend on it that may be an issue.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. SEVEN WORDS OF WISDOM (cough, cough, bullshit)
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 12:32 PM by IChing
"Why should I care about North Korea?" ................George Bush




In State of Denial, Bob Woodward recounts a conversation between then-Gov. George W. Bush
and then-Saudi ambassador to the U.S. Prince Bandar,

in which Bush wonders why he should care about North Korea.

“I get these briefings on all parts of the world,” Bush said,
“and everybody is talking to me about North Korea.”


http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/09/why-should-i-care-a...
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. time to dig out the Condi hid news of NKorea nuke dev. from congress
the admin sat on the info for more than six months, and did not share info until after the IWR vote. Why? Because they feared that the debate per Iraq would shift to why do something about a maybe in Iraq if there is a known serious nuke threat in N Korea.

Pull out those old stories, including some outraged senators' quotes.

Tie it to the Admin decision to begin pulling resources out of Afghanistan a year before the war in Iraq in order to build up the presence in the Gulf - and thus setting the stage for the non-resolved warfare still ongoing in Afghanistan and the "to tell the truth I don't think about him much" OBL still on the lose.

Then ask: are they really the folks who are trying to keep us safe? Or are they the folks who are going to do what they want, when they want, even if they have to lie to get it, and damn the consequences.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. i disagree
failure is not something they ought to boast about.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. What else can the GOP say?
"Oh yeah, we fucked up in a big way and now another hostile regime has nukes."

Of course they have to blame it on the Democrats and claim against all evidence that they're stronger on national security. Whether any of the stenographers in the media will challenge them on these wholly specious points is another matter, but the public seems to be drawing the conclusion that the GOP is a bunch of incompetents all on its own.
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. Ya know, I don't think so. Dems have been talking about *'s failure
to do anything about NK instead of invading Iraq. This is wishful thinking IMHO.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Cept the FACT that NK got nukes UNDER BUSH'S WATCH.
Cept the FACT that NK kicked out the weapons inspectors ON BUSH'S WATCH because BUSH REFUSED to continue negotiations that had been on-going for years.

And now SOUTH Korea says they will FIGHT AGAINST America and side with N Korea if we attack NK.

All UNDER BUSH'S WATCH when BUSH WAS WARNED about N Korea and BUSH DID NOTHING.

Just like BUSH WAS WARNED about al Qaeda and 911 and BUSH DID NOTHING.

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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. "If you like the way they've handled Iraq, vote GOP
if not, vote for people who know what they're doing."
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. When Clinton was in the WH relations were much different between
the US and North Korea. Republicans are to blame for the mess we are in now - on every front. End of message.
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wondermanus Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Think they'll take any of their responsibility for it?
Of course, the Republicans haven't mentioned this:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/89305,cst-nws-nknuke...

North Korea is believed to have been accumulating plutonium for a bomb since the mid-1980s. It froze the program in 1994 as part of an agreement with the United States. Since the breakdown of that agreement in late 2002, North Korea is believed to have ramped up production.

Some experts estimate that at least 80 percent of the country's stockpile of 44 to 116 pounds of refined plutonium was processed since the end of the freeze in 2002.

Or this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreed_Framework

Soon after the agreement was signed, U.S. Congress control changed to the Republican Party, who did not support the agreement. Some Republican Senators were strongly against the agreement, regarding it as appeasement <6> <7>. Initially U.S. Department of Defense emergency funds not under Congress control were used to fund the transitional oil supplies under the agreement <8>, together with international funding. From 1996 Congress provided funding, though not always sufficient amounts <9>. Consequently some of the agreed transitional oil supplies were delivered late.

Some analysts believe North Korea agreed to the freeze primarily because of the U.S. agreement to phase out economic sanctions that had been in place since the Korean War. But because of congressional opposition, the U.S. failed to deliver on this part of the agreement.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. and IF public confidence in the GOP were higher, then that would be true..
But when confidence in the ruling party has fallen to a sufficiently low level, then fear-inspiring developments like the news from NoKo will typically cause further harm to the party in power.

That's what happened in Spain in the elections that immediately followed the terrorist attack on a passenger train. The Aznar government had already undermined itself to a dangerous extent with its widely-resented involvement in the Iraq war.

At a certain point, the fear-provoked "rallying" effect diminshes, and the fear-provoked "we've got to get these incompetent people out of office" effect takes over.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Yeah. I wonder what the ratio is? Hopefully this effect kicks in at 33%
I guess we'll find out soon enough :)
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. Like my man Wes has been saying...
if we had been TALKING to North Korea, this wouldn't be happening.

Hell, I'd go so far as to say if we hadn't invaded Iraq, North Korea wouldn't be afraid we'd invade THEM and might not be pursuing nukes so madly. I mean, It's not like we have ever picked a country at random and invaded it contrary to international law or anything.

Bush's big character flaw is that he won't talk to anyone he disagrees with. You see this up and down the chain: No protestors within x number of yards of the president. Nobody on staff who disagrees with him. Generals who aren't on board with his plans get axed. And on and on.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
19. So is THIS the October surprise?
I AM surprised, I'll say that!
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. N. Korea Nukes = GOP Foreign Policy Failure
confirmed... game over!
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. Make it stop!
A) every time that the predictable results of their incompetence surfaces, the resulting chaos is used to "prove" how important that they be the ones to deal with it. It's the fireman/arsonist phenomenon - setting fires to look like a hero.
B) this viewpoint is shared by far too many. It's self-destructive.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. It is like saying the Republicans stand to gain because of Foley
This hurts their claim to being the party to protect the public, just as Foley hurts their claim of being the moral party.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. WTF?!?
if anything this shows how inept they are and how the world is much more dangerous. All that is is repuke bullshit spin!
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's not NK we should be afraid of
but our Republican-controlled government's response to NK.
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
26. So they WANT an arms race...
Remember when the Republicans accused Democrats of hoping the economy would tank so they'd win the election? How many Republicans breathed a sigh of relief today?

Oh thank god! News that doesn't have "Republican sexual predator" in it! Now if we could only start WWIII, we'd win for sure!
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MGD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. I doubt it. Especially after Bush responds w/ his ususal incompetence
It's already bad for them but it will be 10x worse after Bush has had his opportunity to mishandle it; furthermore, I would bet money that Iran does something similarly brazen between now and November 2008. As Einhorn said: “Iraq is a fiasco, Iran is close to getting nuclear weapons, and North Korea already has them.” The position that Republicans keep us safer is untenable. Their only spin is to blame Clinton and they have already seen that it doesn't pay to invite the Big Dawg into the ring.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'm sorry, but if Dems can't make it clear that Bush is responsible for
this mess, they deserve to lose.
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Infinite Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
32. It'll backfire
because voters view the news from the premise of their current perspective. In the past, it's made it difficult for Democrats. But people's current perspective is one of cynicism and skepticism. They want answers and they question priorities. Voters, in my opinion, will question why something wasn't done about North Korean before and why we're in Iraq which is a mess.
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UndauntedD Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
33. As a great philosopher once said
Edited on Tue Oct-10-06 01:54 AM by UndauntedD
"Fear leads to anger, 
anger leads to hate, 
hate leads to [voting Republican]."
- Yoda
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
36. Merkans are FN stupid so they'll fall for anything.
.
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