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uberblonde Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:39 PM
Original message
Reid's office: NO filibuster.
From Suburban Guerrilla:
http://susiemadrak.com/2006/09/28/16/14/no-filibuster /

"Just got this from Reid's office:

>>We entered into a unanimous consent agreement the choice was have a cloture vote and lose (we simply did not have the votes) with no amendments allowed or actually get votes on four dem amendments. Because it was a UC agreement any member could have objected."<<
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OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. We're Democrats
We're Wimps. We Suck. We Lose. Now vote for us because we're all you've got. Just don't expect us to win.

We're Democrats. We Don't win. We Lose.
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uberblonde Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. They took a gamble and lost.
If they passed even one of the amendments, it would have delayed the bill. But clearly, they didn't have the votes for that, either.
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OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. THEY ALWAYS LOSE!!!
They took a gamble and lost? They thought this time would be different?

The Dems are a bunch of MORONS. They couldn't stand together on ANYTHING.

Who suffers? Guess. Who gets the short end of the stick? Them? Are you fucking kidding?

They don't give a shit. It's only insignificant citizens like us who care.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. They gambled away our future
And the future of our children and grandchildren, and thumbed their noses at the military.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Did you read the statement? Reid choose the Democratic Amendments
The GOP has the majority, they control what gets on the floor.

I honestly don't think a lot of DU'ers understand politics.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. But why not filibuster once it's on the floor? n/t
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. The deal said it would go to a vote.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. No, I meant before they made the deal...
why write off that possiblity?
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kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. probably because they're afraid of losing the mid-terms, which...
they will LOSE anyway. No spines.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Yeah.
Which is why it's so important to call and let them know how wrong that is.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. I understand the politics
But did anyone here really think that any of those amendments were going to pass, they gave up the right to filibuster for a pipe dream.

Did Reid actually imagine that these amendments were going to go anywhere, but in the crapper?

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Did YOU actually imagine that a filibuster would work when we didn't
have enough votes to hold off cloture?

Now, at least Democrats have a chance to put their Amendments and alternatives to a vote. They didn't 'obstruct'.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Why not, the Rethugs don't have enough votes to beat a filibuster....
..so it would have been nuclear option or go home.....

Harry Reid is a fucking light-weight pussy....
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Casablanca Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. Absolutely f-king right! Here's how Reid should have looked at it.
Edited on Thu Sep-28-06 06:13 PM by Casablanca
Every time a priority bill is introduced the Republicans vote in lockstep. They have ALWAYS done this. So where does Reid ever get the idea that he had enough votes for either a cloture OR an Dem amendment in this situation?

The Dems are like Charlie Brown with the football, and they will never, NEVER learn! You don't try to tweak evil legislation. You don't try to reform the Borg from the inside. You don't try to adapt to the Borg. You don't try to deal with the Borg. You just say "NO!" to it, over and over again if necessary.

If Reid had tried for a closure vote and lost, at least he would have been able to plausibly tell the voters "I tried." a la Bill Clinton. If the Dems filibustered and the Republicans went for the nuclear option, and the Dems lost, Reid STILL would have been able to plausibly say "I tried, and I went down fighting.".

But now Reid and the Dems have NOTHING, repeat **NOTHING** to show for themselves in this round. Just a failed tactic on their parts (which has been failing for years) and a whining need for yet more commiseration from their dwindling number of supporters.

They should stop playing tactics and stop playing Charlie Brown, and just say NO to the Borg. Filibuster or go for cloture, every single time.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
49. You know, it's funny. I thought we had *MORE* than 40 Democratic Senators.
> Did YOU actually imagine that a filibuster would work when we didn't
> have enough votes to hold off cloture?

You know, it's funny. I thought we had *MORE* than 40 Democratic Senators.
But I guess lots of them vote as if they were Republicans anyway, ehh?

'Think that has anything to do with why your average Joe can't
figure out what Democrats stand for?

Tesha
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Funny, I also thought we had MORE than 40.

What DO Democrats stand for, anyway?????
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #53
63. Apparently, we have no more than 33.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0609...

WASHINGTON -- After a long and bitter dispute with Congress over
the rights of suspected terrorists and their interrogation, President
Bush emerged victorious Thursday when the Senate approved a compromise
bill to set up military tribunals to try detainees.

The 65-34 vote, following House approval on Wednesday, gave the
president the legal authority he needed to prosecute accused terrorists
as well as the political tool he sought to boast that his administration
would do a better job of keeping Americans safe.

(snip)

In all, 12 Democrats voted for the measure, with Sen. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode
Island the lone Republican opponent

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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. No. We got a bunch of useless Dems who somehow think it's to their
advantage to talk like Republicans, walk like Republicans, think like Republicans and vote like Republicans. Yet magically, we're supposed to THINK they're Democrats!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
62. And I think some DUers are fucking niave.
Don't you get that the majority would ALSO defeat the amendments?

Fucking cowardice, this shit.

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
51. Go sit with Harry Reid.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Those bastid GOPs weren't going to allow ANY AMENDMENTS?
They are just the most UN-American people in this country.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. Huh?
Edited on Thu Sep-28-06 03:43 PM by redqueen
So the reason to agree NOT to filibuster was WHY now?

:banghead:


I mean, it seems to me that was our ONLY hope... so... ?!
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. to try and put forward amendments
Any Democratic Senator could've objected to this strategy and blocked it. Since none did, I don't know that it makes sense to pin all the blame on Reid.

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Oh, I don't blame just one of them...
*sigh*
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dreamsvsnightmares Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
33. I agree. But this makes me so scared and sad that our political system
is gone. There is no hope for the future of our country. It seems everything I used to believe in is gone. We now have a never ending war. Along with brain-dead voters and monkey boy bush what else is there. The stupid dems passed a torture bill this is no excuse.
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patrioticliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. I HATE FUCKING ENABLERS!!!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Reid choose to get Democratic Amendments of the floor.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. Why should the Dems honor an agreement
when the Republicans lie all the time?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I conveyed that same thought to Reid's office.
Just don't honor the agreement.

:evilgrin:
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I don't know that they have any choice under the senate rules
If they agreed to a UC that provides for consideration of the bill, it may well be that there isn't any way that they can stop it at this point. In other words, a cloture motion may not be necessary or in order any more. NOt sure about this, however.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. All we can do is hope you're wrong about that...
I really don't trust Scalia's court to do anything about this after the fact...
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. Is Jeffords - I bound by the dem deal?
I am guessing so since he caucuses with them but...???
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. its not a "Dem deal"
Its a Unanimous Consent resolution approved by the entire Senate without objection that sets the rules of the debate and consideration of the bill.
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. Once again, we choose the short end of the stick.
And we wonder why we keep getting burned.

America needs a change. And it will begin with the Democratic Party.

A NEW Democratic Party, with elected representatives that actually represent the people who elected them. (For a change.)

Vote out incumbent Dems and get new ones! WE NEED REPRESENTATION. We don't have it now.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
32. Primary season is over
This is General Election time. Time to work for a Democratic MAJORITY so that these type of bills don't get anywhere in the first place.
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. I agree with getting a Dem majority.
But I want this bunch of lame asses to GO! THEY ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOBS.

And we start removing them in 2008.
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Casablanca Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
58. A Dem majority won't help ...
If they end up trying to work with the Borg in the spirit of bipartisanship. Until they've demonstrated that they've learned NOT to do this (from their track record as the minority and majority party) there's no reason to be confident that making these boneheaded Dem tacticians the majority again will change anything substantially.

Win or lose, they just have to say NO! to the Borg.

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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. Seems to me they agreed to a coin toss
when they knew the pubs were going to be using a two headed coin. What was he thinking, really?
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. All of the Dem Amendments are going to fail. What a stupid thing to
agree to. I can't believe how stupid these people are!
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. FUCKING COWARDS!!!! FILIBUSTER!!!!
When oh when will these fucking thug-enablers EVER FUCKING STAND-UP FOR SOMETHING?

:grr:
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maseman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. REID said he doesn't have the votes for a filibuster
If we get the Dems back into the Senate in November we won't have to fucking argue about it because they'll control congress. This is amazing to me. We have 44 Dems in the Senate. That means we are powerless. Even if we don't take control of the Senate in November but we end up with 48 or 49 Dems then a filibuster would be much easier.

Let's stay focused on winning in November folks.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. And then the Republicans will filibuster any attempt to amend the law.
And then we're really screwed, aren't we!?
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
52. Good point-there'll definitely be more than 40 Repugs,& they'll filibuster
EVERY damn thing.

So, so, SOOOOOOOO screwed.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. They can't filibuster the Supreme Court, per se, so there's that.
And the Constitution guarantees the Supreme Court's right to rule on basic constitutional matters like this (Tony Snow's stupid mouth aside).

But for Democratic Senators to rely on that and not filibuster this is, IMHO, low. They have gone quietly into that not so good night.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. But with Roberts and Scalito on the Supreme Court...
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Thanks. Somebody who isn't going off in a hysterical panic.
We need more of that on these boards.
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. And by November the GOP has already started disassembling the
Constitution. Too late, the Dems won't be able to do anything. We're giving Bush dictatorial powers TODAY. Do you really expect this same bunch to do anything different going forward?
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
50. not enough votes to filibuster but with the deal at least...
the dem amendments got entered into the congressional record.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
29. This is Latest Breaking News, not Latest Breaking Rumor
You need a news link, not a blog link.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
34. How does anyone expect spineless Democrats to protect them on the war
on terror when they can't even stand up for their own principles, unless water-boarding and no habeus corpus are now DLC principles. This liberal is going elsewhere.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. "This liberal is going elsewhere". As you've posted 1000 times before
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #37
56. True! I'm consistent. I can't vote Republican, I would like to vote
Edited on Thu Sep-28-06 08:14 PM by VegasWolf
Democrat, but I will not vote for a pro-life, pro-war candidate, so what is a poor liberal to do. Judging by your posts you are much more moderate and middle of the road than I am so these things aren't enough to keep you away from the polls. But others of us are just strong liberals!

EDIT: You have NEVER heard me complain about real liberals like Feingold, Kennedy, etc. I only complain about the DINO wimps and THAT is my RIGHT!!!!
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NOLADEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
40. Sometimes I wonder why I care
Our party leadership sure the fuck doesn't.

They just keep sleeping on that growing pile of cash stuffed in their asses courtesy of the Republican wanna-be DLC.

I should have moved in 04 when I had the chance.

Maybe I will approach the company again. Canada is getting warmer everyday, after all.

Oh, and Reid? YOU ARE A MOTHERFUCKING COWARD.

Fight for something you spineless, vanilla piece of shit. You might find it has its own reward, even when you lose.

I am gonna go wash the puke out of my mouth now.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. tell me exactly what Reid should've done
He can't force members to support a filibuster. Should he have pushed ahead with filibuster strategy knowing it would fail? Why is he more to blame than the other Senators who wouldn't support a filibuster?
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. What is this "vote for a filibuster" crap?
As I understand it, anyone can delay by standing up, talking, and not stopping.

Jessse Helms filibustered for 24 hours +!!!

Why can't a Dem?
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. you understand incorrectly I believe
Technically you are right in that one doesn't vote for/against a filibuster, one votes for/against cloture -- the termination of debate. But the cloture procedure can be used to prevent endless debate. UNder the procedure, all it takes is 16 Senators to present a petition for cloture. Such a petition can be presented even if another Senator holds the floor and is talking. The petition must then "lie over" until the second day following, at which point a vote on the motion is in order.
The procedure is described here:
http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/98-425.pd...

While filibusters of the old sort occasionally take place, they can be stopped if the a filibuster-proof majority wants to do so.

And it was Strom Thurmond, not Jesse Helms.
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NOLADEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. The party should have walked out to deny quorum
so no vote could be had.

Am I wrong to think this is a possibility? Don't we have enough Dems to walk out and keep them from having quorum?

Can't we campaign and say all we could do to stop them was to walk out?
That we won't allow anyone to destroy our country in a disasterous bid to save it?
That we won't be part of wiping our ass with the Constitution?


I am no Roger's Rules expert, but I sat and watched a minority Republican Congress score occasional victories and stop many a piece of legislation during our last majority.


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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. You are Right...
Let's face it... these Dems wanted this legislation. There is NO excuse.
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pinerow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
43. I fucking surrender...!!!!
I've fought the good fight, but one can only fight so long...therefore I hereby, officially give up...I cannot fight any longer...It's not only because of this administration, but because of the people who voted, and continue to vote, for the idiots in power...I cannot forgive my government, and I will not forgive my neighbors who continuously vote these jackanapes in to office.

I GIVE UP...I'M DONE...STICK A FORK IN ME... :wtf:
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
48. Well, at least they kept their "powder dry" for a later fight!
When or where that will be is anybody's guess.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
59. Fucking COWARDS!
If not now, when?!?!?!
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williesgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
60. Fuck Reid - he's terrible - can't even keep his Dems in line much less
garner support from the repukes. Fire the lot of them - they're all traitors to this country - the entire fucking congress

I called senators all damn day - again - and it never matters. They're only looking out for themselves, not this country. Maybe a strong stand by every democrat would have made a huge difference - not in this vote but in the elections. They stand up for nothing if they wouldn't stand for this vote for our Constitution. They should all be ashamed of themselves and the institution they supposedly were elected to serve. I don't know how they look their ugly faces in the mirror in the morning.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
61. He couldn't get 41 votes to stop the tyrant... WTF
This is insanity. I don't recognize my own country any more.
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