(Reuters) EXCLUSIVE-Iraq to ask UN to end US immunity after rape case

[sabra]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/KAR040738.htm

EXCLUSIVE-Iraq to ask UN to end US immunity after rape case

BAGHDAD, July 10 (Reuters) - Iraq will ask the United Nations to end immunity from local law for U.S. troops, the human rights minister said on Monday, as the military named five soldiers charged in a rape-murder case that has outraged Iraqis.

In an interview a week after Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki demanded a review of foreign troops' immunity, Wigdan Michael said work on it was now under way and a request could be ready by next month to go to the U.N. Security Council, under whose mandate U.S.-led forces are in control of Iraq.

"We're very serious about this," she said, blaming a lack of enforcement of U.S. military law in the past for encouraging soldiers to commit crimes against Iraqi civilians, such as the alleged rape and murder of a teenager and killing of her family.

"We formed a committee last week to prepare reports and put it before the cabinet in three weeks. After that, Maliki will present it to the Security Council. We will ask them to lift the immunity," Michael said. "If we don't get that, then we'll ask for an effective role in the investigations that are going on.

"The Iraqi government must have a role."

[wakeme2008]

1. Oh Mr Bush

:popcorn:

[PDJane]

2. About time.........

the most self-serving piece of false legislation since the start of the invasion.......and it won't help, because it's against international law.

[rodeodance]

3. bully Bolton will have his work cut out for him on this one.

[rodeodance]

4. recommended

[Roland99]

5. Iraq asks the UN if its master can yield up some sovereignty.

[stop the bleeding]

6. We'll see where this

goes, right now I am not gonna hold my breath,

let's see SCOTUS slams WH and nadda
probably get the same result in regards to the UN



DOESN'T ANYONE GET IT YET????

THIS WH WILL DO WHATEVER THEY WANT AND ANSWER TO NO ONE - PERIOD - ALL OF THIS TALK ABOUT BREAKING LAWS AND WHAT NOT IS JUST THAT - TALK.

I AM SORRY BUT SHORT OF SOMEONE GOING INTO THE WH AND DOING SOME SERIOUS "HOUSE CLEANING" - EVERYTHING ESLE IS JUST SUNSHINE BEING BLOWN UP PEOPLE'S ASSES.

[formercia]

9. Every time I fart, I smell smoke.

Especially watching the evening news.

[Theduckno2]

7. Well George, meet the double-edged sword of sovereignty.

I believe I heard this AM, on CBS radio news, that a Sunni leader was considering the use of UN multinational forces to assist in Iraqi security.

I wouldn't be surprised if all three major factions; Sunni, Shite and Kurds support the lifting of immunity.

Recommended.

link to CBS news article on Iraq, with item on UN peacekeepers mid-page.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/24/iraq/main541815_page2.shtml

edit to provide link.

[dave420]

14. Maybe that's how Iraq will be unified...

... by their distrust of and dissatisfaction with US troops. As they were before.

[Theduckno2]

19. That's George Bush; he's a uniter not a divider. Sarcasm

Although I don't have over 1000 posts, welcome to the DU, dave420. :)

[caledesi]

25. Kinda like "the enemy of the enemy is my friend" nt

[maxrandb]

8. I'd stay away from small aircraft Mr Maliki

"We formed a committee last week to prepare reports and put it before the cabinet in three weeks. After that, Maliki will present it to the Security Council. We will ask them to lift the immunity," Michael said. "If we don't get that, then we'll ask for an effective role in the investigations that are going on.

Is it possible that these reports will detail more atrocities? Is this the kind of report they are talking about? If so, I don't see these reports seeing the light of day.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the roll of Congressional oversight of the Pretzledent and his use of the military had to be done by the UN Security Council?

Meanwhile, the Freakers are asking; "Why does I-Rack hate 'Murika"?

[leesa]

10. The US will get to try out that new Iraqi gubmint they've benn touting.

Perhaps now the Bushbots will notice they have created a theocracy in Iraq.

[mom cat]

11. Puppet jerks string.

:popcorn:

[Bandit]

12. Bush* will reply in this manner

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[54anickel]

20. *'s reply will be "We must support the troops". Been here, done that.

The troops must be allowed to "do their job". At least that has been his mantra in the past.

[Alcibiades]

13. This shows the problem facing the puppet government

No government can stand by and allow the rape and murder of its children by foreign troops, but that is exactly what we have asked this one to do. The problem is, if they don't protest, they are revealed to be puppets, but if they do, they risk alienating the Americans, without whom their puppet regime would not last 10 seconds.

Personally, I think they will press the issue. Bush needs them more than they need him. Of course, it will go nowhere, but they will seem to gain legitimacy.

[MrPrax]

15. Hope that works out for ya...

If you Iraqis are successful in getting the US government to follow the law, tell Americans so they can try to get the US government to follow the law domestically...

At least the Iraqis are off to a good start -- they actually have an Opposition that discusses it in their Parliament...

(no sarcasm)

[Spazito]

16. I don't quite understand why the Iraqi government is going to the

UN on this, the UN, from what I have been able to find, did NOT renew the the blanket coverage initially given in 2002 in Resolution 1422 when requested in 2004 as per this info:

However, with widespread outrage over US treatment of prisoners in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay, Washington was unable to garner support for further exemption agreements in 2004. Since then, the US has not openly lobbied for any yearly provisions, but makes its position clear by routinely placing its opposition on the agenda and seeking ad-hoc immunity.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/icc/crisisindex.htm

My understanding is that the immunity being given to US troops was/is from the Iraqi government started during the Bremer 'reign'. If so, it would seem the Iraqi government has the power itself to withdraw that immunity from the US.


More info:

In a stunning defeat for the U.S., it has withdrawn its resolution seeking immunity for American peacekeepers from prosecution for war crimes.

Facing strong opposition, the United States announced Wednesday it was dropping a resolution seeking a new exemption for American peacekeepers from international prosecution for war crimes. U.S. deputy ambassador James Cunningham made the announcement after a U.S. compromise that would limit the exemption to one final year failed to get support from key Security Council opponents.

One reason for the rejection:

Several council members refusing the compromise cited the abuse of Iraqi detainees by U.S. soldiers and Secretary-General Kofi Annan's opposition to renewing the exemption for a third year.

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/007021.html

[Kagemusha]

26. Good analysis. That was my recollection too

The Iraqi government needs to study something more important, like how supposedly Bremer's decisions are binding on them on the one hand but they're supposedly sovereign on the other.

[Spazito]

29. Yes, even doing further searches, I can't find anything that specifically

relates to this except for the Bremer decisions and, I agree, the Iraqi government should simply vote to overturn decisions made by Bremer prior to elections which would, in turn, give them back their resources, etc, as well as the right to charge American troops for crimes committed.

[Reckon]

27. Plus, that was for peacekeepers

I don't think that's what we're called!

[Spazito]

28. Yes, I can find nothing in the Security Council resolutions that gives

US troops immunity in Iraq beyond the generic peacekeeping resolution that was not renewed in 2004. The US has, instead, threatened various countries with withdrawal of aid if they do not sign on to an agreement giving US troops immunity from prosecution in their countries, only small, poor countries have signed on.

Most of this relates to the ICC but also affects each country individually as to their sovereignty, imo.

[TrogL]

38. they should be going to the Hague war crimes tribunal

although this long article (http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/International_War_Crimes/ImpartialTribunal_Hague.html) (which I do not understand) attempts to explain why this may not be a good idea.

[enough]

42. Thanks Spazito -- very useful post. (nt)

[wicket]

17. Hoo boy

:popcorn:

[Demeter]

18. The Chickens Come Home To Roost

Funny looking chickens, too: black, ugly, bald necked, smelling terribly.....

[VegasWolf]

21. Sovereign nation taking it's first fledgling baby steps to oust the Bush

occupiers and hold Bush and Co. accountable for their war crimes? Hope so!!!

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. Puppet government?

:shrug:

[rateyes]

23. IMHO, the UN should not even entertain this request...

And, this is why:

The article states: "...a request could be ready by next month to go to the U.N. Security Council, under whose mandate U.S.-led forces are in control of Iraq."

That simply is not true. The US-led forces are NOT in Iraq under a UN mandate. Far from it. According to the Constitution of the US all treaties ratified by the Senate are part of "the supreme law of the land." The UN Charter is the "mother of all treaties."

The UN Charter gives only 2 reasons whereby a signatory nation can wage war against another signatory nation...1. To defend against attack or imminent attack (Iraq does not meet that criteria). 2. After the Security Council passes a resolution specifically authorizing the war. That did not happen either. The administration tried to get a 2nd UN Resolution to authorize the Iraq war, but when the administration saw that such a resolution would be voted down, instead of allowing it to come for a vote of the Security Council, they pulled the resolution and decided to go to war, anyway.

If the Security Council NOW decides to "pull immunity," it will be saying through such resolution that they DO have a mandate over that war, and will make it "legal." (or at least give Dubya more ammunition to claim legality for the war.)

Legally speaking, as it stands now, IRAQ is a sovereign nation which was illegally attacked by the US. Since the UN has not mandated that war, it has no jurisdiction to either "grant" or "pull" immunity from these soldiers. The fact is, they HAVE NO IMMUNITY to pull. IMO, the Iraq government should DEMAND that these soldiers be tried in Iraq under Iraqi law, and then start the diplomatic process with the U.S. over the issue. Iraq, sadly, has the high ground here. Not the US. By going to the UN with such a request actully plays into the administration's hands.

Regardless, however, of WHERE they are punished...if these soldiers are guilty of the alleged crime and proven so in a court of law, they should receive the MAXIMUM penalty under the law. There is NO EXCUSE for such behavior. NONE.

[klook]

24. Good analysis.

I agree with everything in your post. Thanks.

[enigma000]

33. Security Council Extends Mandate of Iraq Multinational Force until end2006

The Security Council today unanimously adopted a resolution extending the mandate of the multinational force in Iraq until the end of next year and allowing for a review of that mandate at any time, no later than mid-June 2006, or for its termination, at the request of the Iraqi Government. 

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2005/sc8550.doc.htm

[rateyes]

34. Geez...

Well, it's still illegal because the law wasn't followed. I guess the UN doesn't have the cajones to censure the U.S.

Guess it will be a good thing, then to grant the request to remove immunity from the soldiers.

[Kagemusha]

36. Ok, something to point out, the mandate doesn't give immunity.

They stopped throwing immunity in a couple of years ago. The US just made sure Iraq does give it immunity, so there UN ha ha ha.

(This doesn't deserve a less mocking description)

[Hosnon]

44. The UN Charter is only "supreme law" to the extent that it does not

conflict with the powers granted the three branches under the Constitution. The President and 2/3 of the Senate cannot amend the Constitution.

So, assuming there is a Constitutionally authorized way for the President to enter into war that is not one of the two listed in the UN Charter, it would be legal in the United States for the President to do so.

I really can't imagine a scenario of the top of my head to give as an example but the rationale is valid.

[uppityperson]

30. good for him. k&r nt

[daleo]

31. Even the British couldn't try a U.S. soldier in 1941-45

Who committed a crime in Britain. Same goes for every place the U.S. has ever occupied, as far as I have read (status of forces agreements).

Good luck to the Iraqis, but it will never happen.

[Roy]

32. This may be outrage with consent....

Since everyone, including Maliki knows that this outrage will fall on deaf ears, this appears to be no more than an attempt to garner support from Iraqis lending legitimacy to to the Iraqi wing of the US Government.
If they were serious why isn't the message "shape up or ship out?

The same things that will happen when the US leaves are the same things that are occuring right now.

[lanlady]

35. what a sign of weakness

Maliki should just end immunity, period. Since when did the UN put the US in charge of Iraq???

[Terran1212]

37. If they don't their own people might overthrow them

Because the Iraqis are more serious about democracy than we are.

[NVMojo]

39. Damn! I wish this would happen!

[Zhade]

40. KandR

NT!

[MetaTrope]

41. Well, aside from a one-paragraph mention in the LA Times

There's still no sign of this story showing up in the U.S. media this morning.

[Judi Lynn]

43. Iraq will ask UN Security Council to lift legal immunity for Coalition for

Monday, July 10, 2006

Iraq will ask UN Security Council to lift legal immunity for Coalition forces
Joe Shaulis at 2:22 PM ET

The government of Iraq plans to ask the UN Security Council to lift Coalition troops' immunity from Iraqi law, Human Rights Minister Wijdan Michael said Monday. She indicated that a committee formed last week is preparing reports for the Iraqi Cabinet, adding that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki could present Iraq's request to the Security Council by next month. Michael blamed lax enforcement of US military law for alleged crimes by American forces against Iraqi civilians, including the rape and murders in Mahmudiya that have led to charges against five current and former US soldiers. Last week, because of those allegations, al-Maliki called for the US military's immunity to be reviewed . Michael said that if the Security Council denies the request to end the immunity, Iraq will ask for "an effective role in the investigations that are going on." Among other alleged offenses under investigation are the killings of 24 Iraqis in Haditha last November.

A decree issued by the US-run Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) provided that "the MNF , the CPA, Foreign Liaison Missions, their Personnel, property, funds and assets, and all International Consultants shall be immune from Iraqi legal process," including "any arrest, detention or legal proceedings in Iraqi courts or other Iraqi bodies, whether criminal, civil, or administrative." When the Coalition Provisional Authority was replaced by Iraq's interim government in June 2004, the immunity language was annexed to the UN Security Council resolution authorizing the US-led occupation. Reuters has more.

This not the first time that Iraqi government officials have called for the lifting of the military immunity provision; in September 2005 then-Iraqi Justice Minister Abdul Hussein Shandal criticized the US military for arresting and detaining Iraqi citizens and journalists without bringing charges against them and called for either the amendment or discontinuation of Resolution 1546 immunity.
(snip/)

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2006/07/iraq-will-ask-un-security-council-to.php