Election ballots found in trash dump in Veracruz

[IndianaGreen]

This is the second incident of ballots found in the trash. Earlier today it was reported that ballots were found at a municipal trash dump in Ciudad Nezahuacoyotl.

Encuentran actas electorales en basurero de Veracruz

Édgar Ávila Pérez / Corresponsal
El Universal
Xalapa, Veracruz
Miércoles 5 de julio de 2006

23:49 Integrantes del Partido de la Revolución Democrática (PRD) encontró en Xalapa, la capital de Veracruz, actas electorales supuestamente tiradas en la basura, lo cual fue testificado por un notario público y denunciado ante las instancias competentes.

En conferencia de prensa, el dirigente estatal perredista, Rogelio Franco Castán, afirmó que con esto se demuestra el fraude electoral en Veracruz para impedir que llegue a la Presidencia de la República Andrés Manuel López Obrador.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/360330.html

Translation:

Election Ballots found in trash dump in Veracruz

Members of the Democratic Revolution Party (PRD) discoverd in Xalapa, the capital of Veracruz, election ballots thrown in the trash dump, this was attested and witnessed by a public notary and notification given to the proper authorities.

In a press conference, the PRD's Chair for the state of Veracruz, Frank Rogelio Castán, confirmed that this incident is evidence of electoral fraud in Veracruz to impede the election of Andrés Manuel Lopez Obrador to the Presidency of the Republic.

Here is the earlier story mentioned at the top of this post:

The ballots from three precincts in the city of Nezahuacoyotl – a López Obrador stronghold – were discovered yesterday in the municipal garbage dump. The results from two of those precincts have been missing, since Sunday, from IFE’s vote tallies. An IFE official, ambushed by television reporters, exacerbated the crime yesterday when she blamed the Mexican military: the Armed Forces, not IFE, are supposedly guarding the ballots, she said, in defense of her bureaucracy. This, sources close to the military told Narco News, produced significant anger among the military generals and troops who – if the public does not believe or accept IFE’s final decision – will be called upon to quell the national rebellion that follows.

http://narconews.com/Issue42/article1962.html

Here is the picture of one of the ballots found earlier at the municipal trash dump in Ciudad Nezahualcóyotl:



http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/07/05/index.php

[eleny]

1. Bernie Ward just read this!

But he's moved on to Ken Lay's death now.

[Wilms]

2. Gee, I guess the exit polls may have been right. n/t

[NorthernSun]

4. They usually are

Even in the US. Just ask president Gore and Kerry.

[Acadia Blue]

59. Conservatives steal because they really don't have the support to win

honestly.

[Judi Lynn]

60. It's true. I've pondered this before, myself.

Their only wish seems to be to destroy the opposition altogether. Democrats have NEVER gone on a relentless campaign against them.

They have nothing to offer themselves, so they spend their time trying to tear down what Democrats have accomplished.

_Bush's entire pResidency has been one long effort to remove every trace of social progress acheived by previous Democratic Presidents.

What a triumph, should he succeed. :eyes:

Conservatives simply have nothing to offer on their own, and no way to win through honest means.

[Xenotime]

73. Exactly.

[demo dutch]

70. Exit polls are always right, that's how we measure faulty elections in the

world!

[zonkers]

3. Why would someone tossing votes be dumb enough to dump them in the

dump, the first place someone would look? Why wouldn't you burn them, bury them, shred them or just lock them in a trunk or whereve? It just doesn't make sense. Not saying it didnt happen, though.

[papau]

9. GOP midwest tradition is to throw them in lakes and rivers - idiots some

times, as in Illinois in the 1960 Nixon/JFK race, don't take them out of the ballot boxes, and the ballot boxes float to the surface as the did in the next DesPlaines River annual spring flood - getting found and written up in the police blotter which in turn meant media documentation when that police blotter got published in the local paper, the Waukegan NewsSun.

[WhiteTara]

10. arrogance and hubris

:shrug: thugs are all the same.

[zonkers]

12. Yeah, makes sense, I guess.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. Funny how stupid criminals can be. Ever watch those reality cop

shows?

[SoCalDem]

21. Probably some are now mattress stuffing or livestock bedding

never to be "found"..

[MorningGlow]

47. Electronic voting machines

Preferably without the ability to print a paper receipt. That's what they need--get rid of those pesky hard copies that come to light. USA leads the way once again...

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

:eyes:

[tsuki]

57. You are talking about the conservatives, remember.

[tblue37]

80. Remember how they trashed the

registration forms for new Democratic voters before the 2004 election? A lot of the low level foot soldiers for these political machines are arrogant, dumber than dirt--and lazy to boot.

[HuffleClaw]

5. awfully sloppy

really, that is just sloppy electoral fraud. like they aren't really trying. perhaps some of the minions involved WANTED this to be uncovered?

[CreekDog]

7. I think they have to throw out more tonight

To assure a victory for PAN

[IndianaGreen]

8. Ballots are under the control of IFE, the electoral board

The fact that ballots were found dumped raises more questions as to the integrity of IFE.

Back in 1998, the then ruling party PRI's candidate was trailing in the vote count when there was a mysterious computer crash. When the computer came back online, the PRI candidate was way ahead in the count.

[nick303]

40. Technicalities

1) The described event happened in 1988.
2) IFE was formed in 1990.

[Bridget Burke]

44. Yes, those "technicalities" are really handy.

You are responding to a message that did NOT link IFE & the 1988 Stolen Election.

[nick303]

82. Let's examine

The first statement says that the current fraud raises questions about the IFE.

The second statement brings up a story of previous fraud, which you claim was in no way being linked to the organization in the first statement. That would then make me ask, what IS the point? Just throwing two completely disparate thoughts next to each other for no good reason?

[Theduckno2]

14. Just thinking out loud here. Maybe it wasn't such a bad plan.

Just imagine yourself illegally coming into possession of a ballot box stuffed with ballots you don't want counted. The ballots are of no value to anyone, so you can't sell them. There is no legitimate reason for you to have them and if you get caught with them you are in a world of hurt. You have every reason to get rid of them as fast as you can, WITHOUT attracting attention to yourself, for if you get caught with them you're done.

Why not throw them away where everyone else throws things away? You won't attract attention throwing something away at the garbage dump, and with a little luck the boxes may be covered with tons of trash in a few short days.

[Trillo]

16. Just thinking out loud, too

If it looked like the elite favored candidate was losing, perhaps someone would fabricate some ballots to throw in the trash. What better way to get rigged ballots counted than to make them appear to be illegitimately thrown away?

I think this is what IndianaGreen was getting to about election integrity. It's really hard to speculate on the real reason they were tossed. Maybe they're genuine, maybe they're not: but in either case, it seems there's some corruption in the process.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

6. Here...King george Could Admit He Fixed The Elections....

And nobody would care. They don't even really care what we know anymore, since they control everything anyways.

[Peace Patriot]

13. Lopez Obrador was winning by a hair at 10:45 pm--a .64 lead with 95% of

the vote re-tabulated (not a real recount). Lopez Obrador is the Leftist, advocate of the poor. It looks like tomorrow there will be a REAL recount--then we will find out more about ballots dumped in the garbage, and electronic fraud. I have never believed that it is this close--not with Mexico's vast poor population and the devastation that NAFTA has wrought. They re-tabulated today--and "found" some of those 3.5 million votes they "lost" two days ago, and suddenly Lopez Obrador is leading--close, but ahead, which means we've had about a 1.5% swing altogether (less votes for Calderon, more votes for Obrador). With a real recount, I think Obrador will win--if the people are able to obtain a decent recount (every vote counted--even the ones smelly with garbage!).

[lonestarnot]

43. The site below has the bitch candidate ahead this a.m. What is with

dat? Does that count the trashed ballots?

[Judi Lynn]

15. Gee, it seems only yesterday when people found a lot of smoldering

ballots lying in a dump in Haiti, and the election was reversed and given to René Préval, from the same party as President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, the man _Bush backstabbed and had removed from office.

Have these nearly lost ballots been added to the total?

I wonder if people from Calderon's party will be out checking the dumps all over Mexico to make sure the ballots are completely burned overnight.

[seafan]

48. Yes, here is a Feb. '06 thread on Haiti's "ballot problems":

Burned ballots inflame Haitian election tensions
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2109729


So much right wing corruption. So little time left for the GOP.

[Judi Lynn]

53. Thanks for the link. Just added it to my own files for future reference.

When you hear of ballots in the dump following ANOTHER election the right-wing HERE desperately wants, you start feeling there's a pattern.



Can you imagine how much disgust and repulsion the citizens feel finding the results of their election in the city dump? My god.

[NYC]

17. Indiana Green, where's the latest Mexican count thread?

I can't find it.

.19% lead

35.69% Lopez Obrador
35.50% Calderon

[MattP]

18. Here it is

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/noticias.html At the rate it is going he is going to lose by .1, the vote has slowed to where it was 10% counted in one hour earlier and now it has take 3 hours to count like 3% so I think something is up.

[NYC]

19. That page is becoming very slow for me.

I was looking for the DU thread that must be Part 3.

People are able to post the information faster than I can get it.

Thanks for the link, and welcome to DU. :hi:

Yes, I agree that something is up.

[MattP]

20. What now?

Is that the last we are going to here about these ballots or what? Does anybody think the court will do anything about a election they kept starting and restarting the vote count until they "got it right"

[Judi Lynn]

22. Found something which sounds a little different, at CNN

Obviously they don't have the latest actual count, but it sounds as if the numbers they have tonight aren't necessarily going to be the numbers they will use later, if I read this correctly:

Narrow poll lead as Mexico counts

Thursday, July 6, 2006; Posted: 3:08 a.m. EDT (07:08 GMT)

MEXICO CITY, Mexico (CNN) -- Leftist presidential candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador is holding a narrow lead over conservative Felipe Calderon in Mexico's contentious presidential election.

With nearly 96 percent of the vote counted late Wednesday, Obrador had about 35.8 percent, compared to about 35.4 percent for Calderon.

On Sunday, the head of the Federal Electoral Institute (IFE) said the election was too close to call, launching Wednesday's official vote count from the country's 300 voting districts.

The counting of approximately 42 million ballots cast must be completed in all 300 of Mexico's voting districts, which include 133,000 polling stations.

"IFE will then do a count district by district," Luis Carlos Ugalde, president of IFE said, "and it will be done without interruption until it is completed and then we will know who was the candidate who obtained the majority of the votes."

Election officials are to convene Sunday to review the results.

Theoretically, an official result could be announced as early as Sunday, though each candidate has until the following Thursday to challenge it.
(snip/...)

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/07/06/mexico.elex/index.html

[MattP]

23. I guess it's me

I wonder if that was just in case they didn't get the result they wanted. I've just become a little pessimistic lately with the way elections have turned out in our neck of the woods lately.

[MattP]

24. .09 97.39

He seems to be gaining more ground than possible but we know how that goes....

[MGD]

25. Election tampering is, IMHO, one of the most disgusting crimes

a person could perpetrate. It's even worse than murder I think because when you kill a person, you simply take their life but when you steal a national democratic election, you rob an entire country of its very soul. I hope the Mexican people handle this better than we did.

[NYC]

26. Have those ballots found in the trash been counted?

I think not.

How can you not have a recount when ballots are found in the trash, and it seems the election will be won by 1/2%.

97.88%

35.57% Lopez Obrador
35.62% Calderon

[Judi Lynn]

27. How many ballots have been successfully destroyed, with no witnesses?

The people of Mexico deserve a new election, with different personel operating the polls.

[POAS]

29. Bring in the UN

or other outside group to run the election

[MGD]

30. Can we get them to come here too?

That would seriously piss off the right wing BTW.

[POAS]

34. Yea the freepers would take to the streets by the tens!

Not the Dems are that much better at taking to the streets these days.

[leftchick]

41. The UN volunteered to oversee our 2004 "election"

they were denied. :(

[demo dutch]

63. That's what I said in 2000!

[Eurobabe]

33. So did we, and look where it got us...

Lousy war later, etc.

[MGD]

28. These problems could be eliminated by adopting a proportional

democracy and abandoning this flawed and failed simple plurality model that engenders a two party plutocracy. State by state voting for the President shoould go away forever too as should the notion of an electoral college. The winner-take-all concept is the root of all evil in any deomocracy IMO and it is far from the more perfect union that our forefathers sought to form. It was created as it is as a government of last resort to appease slave owners and elitists.

[NYC]

31. Well, I've had enough of slave owners and elitists.

Can we have fair elections now?

I hope there is a recount in Mexico. I hope there is a fair result.

98.05% Calderon leading .09%

35.55% Lopez Obrador
35.64% Calderon

[MGD]

32. My money says this election will be decided by entities "OTP"

that's "other than the people" There's a suspiciously convenient amount of wiggle room.

[NYC]

36. I think so, too.

I'm wondering why I stayed up until daylight. I could have predicted the outcome. OTP sums it up.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[demo dutch]

64. You know there won't be, as it's orchestrated by our government

[annabanana]

35. IFE "Complicit Umpire"

The cover of Proceso Magazine

[NYC]

37. When was that published?

I can't see the date.

Thanks.

[annabanana]

49. on Monday (7/3)

If the link is to be believed.
http://narconews.com/Issue42/article1962.html

[NYC]

75. Thanks.

100% a .57% lead for Calderon

35.31% Lopez Obrador
35.88% Calderon

Surely, with a vote having only a .57% (slightly more than half a percent) spread, and ballots in the trash, there should be a recount of the actual votes.

I haven't yet read anything today. I'm hoping.

[slackmaster]

38. Corruption in Mexican politics?

I am shocked, SHOCKED!

Round up the usual suspects.

[Divine Discontent]

77. lol

too funny... wonder if the rovenator had anything to do with calderon's theft?

FIGHT FOR FAIR ELECTIONS
OR SUFFER BAD LEADERS
www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<<--- ALL NEW designs for 2006 & 08, also ANTIBUSH!

[IndianaGreen]

39. Remember that this is not a recount in which each ballot is counted

Remember that this is not a recount in which each ballot is counted, but a re-checking of the tally sheets for each polling place. PAN and the Fox Administration are opposed to Obrador's call for a ballot for ballot recount.

The only time IFE looked at individual ballots was when there was a problem with the tally sheets, and they did this with the ballots of a handful of polling districts.

This is not over by a long shot, particularly when you have ballots being found in municipal trash dumps. The Mexican bloggers are going at full blast.

It may well be September, or later before this is settled.

The next step would be an appeal this Sunday. PRD has been demanding a nationwide ballot by ballot recount.

The Federal Electoral Institute says it expects to announce the result soon.

But whatever the outcome, the candidate that loses will inevitably challenge the outcome, says the BBC's Daniel Lak in Mexico City.

The IFE will hand the final result over to a seven-judge tribunal and legal proceedings are then almost certain to begin.

<snip>

The recount has involved checking the tallies attached to ballot boxes, which were sealed after Sunday's election.

Individual ballots have not been reviewed unless the boxes appeared tampered with or if the tallies were missing, illegible or inconsistent.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5150440.stm

[expatriot]

42. US MSM is mum on these trashed ballots. I have noticed that

they are really dragging their feet in covering this story. Surprise, surprise.

[MGD]

50. You wanna bet on whether Lou Dobbs weighs in or not?

It definitely seems like his cup of tea.

[ozone_man]

45. Will these be counted in the present recount?

If I understand this correctly, they won't be counted in the present "recount". If and when they are counted, that should give Obrador the win.

[gorbal]

46. They are probably working overtime undercover of night

I am sure IFE is made up of many people and I wouldn't doubt it if some low-lifes got in there somehow. I think I would believe them when they blame the army.

[Marie26]

51. Sigh

Were these ballots included in the recounr yesterday?

[mwooldri]

52. So even Mexico's paper system is flawed?

The ballot boxes aren't traceable? The ballots themselves aren't traceable?

Couldn't this have been found out in the counting?

Mark.

[Igel]

56. Historically election fraud has happened with paper

ballots.

And the tally sheets from these two precincts were missing; so they knew something was amiss.

Whether these results should be included is a difficult question: Since they were out of the control of election officials, and in the control of one political party, are they really trustworthy? (And for this question, which political party is in question is immaterial.)

One thing I'd want to do is track down the witnesses from the parties that were present at the precincts for the initial tally.

[bdamomma]

54. um they must be taking lessons from us

[meganmonkey]

58. We're spreading deMOCKracy all over the world

like a virus :puke:

[stepnw1f]

55. There Ya Go... Election Fraud

conservatives make me sick.

[demo dutch]

62. Surely US/Bush Conversatives are helping out their favorite candidate

in Mexico

[wordpix2]

65. certainly looks that way

[Nothing Without Hope]

61. Greg Palast's articles on HOW THE BUSHIES HELPED STEAL MEXICAN ELECTION::

for their favored candidate:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=437351
thread title (6-30-06): STEALING MEXICO - by Greg Palast

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1556158
thread title (7-3-06): Dispatch from Mexico City: Stealing it in Front of Your Eyes - Greg Palast

[Jack Rabbit]

66. Very interesting

Did the Mexican establishment consult Jeb Bush or Ken Blackwell on how to run an election?

[DainBramaged]

67. WHO here thinks the RNC is involved, raise your hands!

[flyarm]

68. don't forget "CHOICEPOINT" BREAKING MEXICAN LAW!! DATA BASING, N/T

[demo dutch]

69. No PRD candidate has ever won the presidency because "it's not

in the best interest of the US". (I can hear them say it now!) WH would never accept another Venezuela situation

[Kolesar]

71. The Mexican-Americans should rally and protest *this*

They are experienced at it now.

[stepnw1f]

72. Good Idea!

Scared the hell out of Washington when they did. Maybe Americans along with Mexican immigrants should double the number we saw last time.

[fasttense]

74. Very good idea. They sure rallied against the "ship them out now"

crowd. I would even join in on their protest, this time. God, I hate people who rig elections.

[MrPrax]

76. Good work...Raw Story Noticed

Raw Story Raw Story has cited this thread in their story here...

Raw Story...third paragraph

In another indication of electoral fraud, ballots were also found in a second garbage dump in the city of Xalapa, the capital of the Mexican State of Veracruz. Parts of the http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/360330.html">Spanish language report were translated by a contributor to a discussion board at the website Democratic Underground.

Kudos!!

As Usual, IndianaGreen rocks

:yourock:

[IndianaGreen]

83. Wow, how about that!

This is why the ruling party PAN is so opposed to having all the ballots counted!

[Judi Lynn]

84. Absolutely right. I.G. has been a life-line during this election.

Thanks to IndianaGreen, we know a lot more about what happened than we would without this help/input.

[Rex]

78. Why is it that I haven't heard ANY mention of this by the M$M?

Anyone hear this mentioned by ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/FOX/MSNBC? No matter what the results, it was rigged and 2.5 million ballots in the trash prove it! How many other trash cans around Mexico are full of uncounted ballots? What did the SCOTUS do in 2000? They opened Pandora's Box. Thanks assholes!

[David Zephyr]

79. Kick!

K&R.

[leftofthedial]

81. coup of 2000 in Murka

coup of 2006 in Mexico

Is Venezuela the only democracy left in our hemisphere?