LAT: GOP Base Not Swayed by Bush's Stance on Gay Marriage

[DeepModem Mom]

GOP Base Not Swayed by Bush's Stance on Gay Marriage
By Maura Reynolds and Janet Hook, Times Staff Writers

WASHINGTON -- The campaign against gay marriage is scheduled to get the administration's special treatment on Monday -- words from President Bush at the White House, an array of VIPs assembled to hear him, a bank of television cameras on hand to broadcast the proceedings.

Such marquee billing aims to confer the grandeur of the office on the push for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. But even before administration officials announced the event, some of the invitees, far from swooning at the honor, denounced it as a sham.

"I'm going to go and hear what he says, but we already know it is a ruse," said Joe Glover, president of the Family Policy Network, which opposes gay marriage. "We're not buying it. We're going to go and watch the dog-and-pony show, (but) it's too little, too late."

Such comments have raised the prospect that the debate on gay marriage -- designed to galvanize one of Bush's most important constituencies, social conservatives -- could instead exacerbate the president's political headaches....

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gay3jun03,0,5316780.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[Lautremont]

1. Even these dudes know bread and circuses when they see them.

[susanna]

10. IMHO, it took 'em long enough. n/t

[TheFarseer]

25. not even any bread

just circus, and mostly just clowns.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

28. I guess Condi's the bearded lady.

[Lautremont]

51. I wish they pack themselves into their little car and scoot away.

[CoffeeCat]

2. Glen Beck was also saying...

...that this is a sham.

He was making fun of the upcoming speech and talking about how it will change nothing.

It serves these people right for believing one damn word Junior said. Junior culled
their votes, but he has no passion for their agenda. His agenda is warmongering and
being a little junior master of the universe. It's kinda hard to build a campaign
around being a Fascist, anti-Constitution hack--so he threw out a few Bible verses
and looked wistfully toward the sunset as he talked about "faith" and "values."

Oh please.

These people put this monster in office. They bought and drank the Kool-Aid.

Tough rocks.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. I wouldn't revel in this.

These people are going to work to put someone a whole lot worse in office.

[susanna]

12. Sorry to ask, but who?

Are you saying that those (the administration) who hoodwinked gays are going to put someone worse in office? I guess I am not following?

on edit: clarity

[PADemD]

18. Someone worse

How about Jeb Bush?

[wryter2000]

37. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[DeepModem Mom]

50. Hi, PADemD -- welcome to DU!

(Please, not Jeb!)

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

23. Oh, there are worse out there.

Remember: Dear Leader's base is comprised of people who were once(or still are) members of organizations on the farthest fringes of the right. At one time, the repukes opposed them and kept them out of the party.

Now, they run the party.

They will look to their own or those who echo their most radical beliefs.

[susanna]

94. OK, now I see your point.

Sorry, I wasn't firing on all cylinders when I read your post. It was late, I was tired, you get the picture. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[noahmijo]

53. Someone who actually believes what Bush says

Bush's religion is this $$$

It is no mystery that underneath all the Christian bullshit he's a guy who enjoys who has enjoyed alchohol, drugs, violence, and let's be honest I doubt the man would run away if he came across a tv showing lesbian porn.

No he doesn't give a shit about any of the so called values he talks about it's a smokescreen nothing more. But these Christian groups want someone far worse apparently by their own admission-They want their own Christian Taliban style government obviously.

[susanna]

95. I'm reading "American Theocracy" right now

by Kevin Phillips. It is a really good look at how the religious politicos came to power, but ignores the right-wing radio that helped lay the groundwork. Unless I haven't gotten to that part yet...

Either way, it is an enlightening read.

[ebayfool]

112. I think you're right @ everything but the lesbian porn.

I think he'd be scared shitless by female-in-control-sex. No male in control? Even for his dear dollars he wouldn't be happy @ that.

But Gannon-style porn? That's a whole 'nother thing. He'd be glued to the TV!

Seriously though, the 'Christian Talibans' scare ME shitless! And I don't scare easy.

[Canuck55]

54. Easy.

Always remember that John McCain was PNAC's choice in 2000.

[TheFarseer]

27. I'm not sure they can, but it is scary

Someone like Brownback who actually believes all this family values non-sense and will go along with the war stuff just as much as junior. These people have just begun to fight with family values. I think they will make it resonate by election day. They always have been able to. I can just see a gay couple getting in trouble over a child and it's all over Fox News. That would be the gasoline they need for the fire. Or they can just trot out abortion or "Democrats are going to bring back the marriage penalty" etc. etc.

[Evergreen Emerald]

41. Bush is only a figure head. Whoever "they" put in office

will be part of PNAC with the same agenda. Jeb is one of the pnac-pack, as is Romney. McCain came around and started towing their line, however it is likey too late for neo-cons.

It is indeed a vast right-wing conspiracy. They completed their coop with diebold when they stole the last election. Until we get to the root of the voting corruption they will not be out of office anytime soon.

[disndat]

36. Bush's family value?

Are they just rumors that Laura has moved out to the Mayflower Hotel? Wash DC is abuzzed--Bush and Condi, Randi Rhods outed her, Bush off the wagon, etc.

[Supersedeas]

122. there are a great many who are still swilling the Kool-Aid, some of them

in the Media, too.

[genieroze]

3. designed to galvanize one of Bush's most important constituencies?

Oh, bigots?

[rodeodance]

4. lets hope it gives him a BIG throbbing Headache. Have you called your Sens

......Such comments have raised the prospect that the debate on gay marriage -- designed to galvanize one of Bush's most important constituencies, social conservatives -- could instead exacerbate the president's political headaches....

[Robbien]

11. When the Freepers aren't even talking excitedly about this

you know it is going to bomb.

They want the amnesty issue settled and they are not going to be bought off with dog and pony shows.

[rodeodance]

5. k

[rodeodance]

6. k

[rodeodance]

7. k

[rodeodance]

8. k

[wiley]

13. Is the GOP Base Unhappy? No.

If you believe that any of the GOP base is at all dismayed by Bush's stance on Gay Marriage you're really incredibly naive. While the nation has been savaged by crises like the Medicare Destruction and transferal of a larger portion of costs to elderly and disabled citizens ACT, or the Why are we letting Terri Schiavo be drowned like a cat in a bag Circus, or the Costs of fighting nuke wielding terrorists in Iraq is forcing us to throw the nation further into debt by giving the wealthy more and more tax cuts while simultaneously cutting benefits for veterans and the poor Justification, they have gotten more presents than 200 years of Christmases.

Have any of the thousands of right wing, conservative,corporate rights and profits above all judges at any level of the system been turned down? Is the Supreme Court not been taken over in the name of a very limited partisan agenda? Have not all the agencies and arms of research and science been overtaken by people whose only expertise is in advancing their religious agenda while throwing out real scientists and public servants? Do extremist right wing corporations not now own the media and take directions from the truth deniers, liars and fact contortionists? Do we even have a way for the citizens of this country to vote in a verifiable manner? Are not "faith based institutions" in electoral vote rich red states funded by tax payer dollars? Are they ever audited?

Do they not have the ability to monitor and track every communication you make, even if they are just collecting that info to discern "patterns"? Is there any crime that they can't justify away as a partisan attack by Democrats?

No, the GOP Base is not unhappy. Just smarter and sleazier than anyone ever gives them credit for. Of course Bush is going to put on a boffo - yet sensitive - attack on Gay Marriage, mentioning that even GOD loves homosexuals. He'll do it for two reasons. To let the base know there is still lots of damage that can be done to America to the benefit of those corporations that lead these religious zealots around like sheep, and grossly profit their spiritual leaders. He'll also do it just to let everyone know that we all hate homosexuals and wish they just wouldn't exist, just so all the men and women in the country, regardless of race or ethnicity or political party, will have a group of personally threatening or sinful people that makes them feel connected to this country, even if their own situation is very bad indeed. Ask any parents if they want biological grandchildren, or if they want one of their kids to be a homosexual.

So don't be fooled by those whining, "disappointed" radical right wing religious power mongers who claim to speak on behalf of God or morality. They are great politicians. They're getting media. They are being made to look powerful and important. Politicians are taking notice. All the while that Bush is lining up as many Executive appointments as he can before the 06 elections.

And that cod about Democrats surging ahead in polls? The media is all too happy to oblige. It gets ratings. It rallies the Repuke base. It gives the Pukes yet another chance to tell Americans what is more important. It makes them look like underdogs (who just happen to control the voting process)standing up on the principle that every mother and father in this country should prioritize protecting their children from becoming or being exposed to homosexuals than living in a country with rights, good educational opportunities,job security and the opportunity to live a decent life based on hard work. Besides, this is really just about making it illegal for any unmarried couples to live together, heterosexuals included. No, the GOP base has not abandoned Bush or the Repukes. They still have so much they have to "accomplish"

So, let's keep attacking and demonizing Hilary Clinton as the devil incarnate. Let's fantasize about who we want to see on the next cover of People or Time as the next possible Democratic President. The media will be sure to provide some kind of sexy bits info as directed by the GOP. The GOP base has got the Democratic base doing exactly what it wants it to be doing. Not paying attention to the 06 elections while they continue to overtake and destroy what is left of freedom and Democracy in this country.

[bbgrunt]

15. I fear you are both wiley and rite

[PurpleChez]

17. Yeah. Freepers will make out like they're sooo dissappointed about this,

but they'll all go back to their bigoted, hick, fire-baptized churches and start speaking in tongues in support of the damn amendment anyway. They'll stump for every un-robed klansman that the GOP floats them. And they'll all go on the same video religion shows and bawl about how we have to do this...for JEEE-ZUSSSAH.

[Olney Blue]

31. ... and they got Alito and Roberts.

:grr:

[yardwork]

32. I think you are right.

Look at the people who don't think this proposed amendment GOES FAR ENOUGH!

Clipped from article in OP:

At least two prominent social conservative groups — Concerned Women for America and the Traditional Values Coalition — believe the language contains a loophole that would allow gays to seek civil unions.

....

Andrea Lafferty, executive director of the Traditional Values Coalition, and others say the second sentence leaves open the option that gays and lesbians could enter unions other than marriage; and that's a deal breaker for them.

[Tarc]

43. About as wrong as one can get

Spend some time amidst real conservative Republicans, perhaps. Out in the real world, away from hyper-intense internet debate, there is a genuine anger and resentment among dozens and dozens of people I know who have voted solidly conservative Republican for years. Once the "for the sake of 9/11!" euphoria faded, they feel that they have been lied to and manipulated and taken for granted, and plan to do something about it come election time. Most by staying home, others going for Libertarian candidates.

This doesn't mean that the Democratic party should feel 100% comfy and secure; there's still a lot of work to do to take advantage of this come Fall. But please, painting this picture of every conservative as an ever-cunning and super-manipulative Karl Rovian clone is ridiculous.

[wiley]

62. I'm talking about the GOP Base

[Tarc]

75. As was I

[Voltaire99]

98. "So, let's keep attacking and demonizing Hilary Clinton"

Glad to oblige, ol' chum. She is really awful, you know.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ruggerson]

14. Freepers are reacting the same way

There was a thread over there the other day about this and almost all of them denounced it as gratuitous pandering on behalf of an amendment that is already dead. They are angry that he is not doing their bidding on immigration and spending and they can see through this shame just like everyone else can.

Bringing this up again may end up being a huge tactical mistake for the Repubs, as it seems EVERYONE, right and left, can see through the bullshit this time around.

[Guaranteed]

16. David Gergen said that the wedge issues wouldn't work.

He's usually right.

He said that this, of course, is an old trick (we've seen it how many times, now?) but that it's a short-term fix for a large, long-term problem. Basically, Bush is just too big of a fuck-up.

[ElboRuum]

19. While it is nice to see...

...that the flimflammery Bush is spewing is being recognized as such for the GOP base, I fail to see what it has to do with anything. It seems to me that what they're saying is that Bush has failed to deliver on one of their key "issues" which seems to revolve around Constitutional discrimination. What they haven't said is that they would be suspicious of the motives of another who promised the same thing.

Besides, Shrub has no political headaches... he's a lame duck.

[Toots]

20. You mean they don't "trust" their pResident?

Hmmmm.

[TheCowsCameHome]

21. Aw, poor base. Those lemmings don't know what to think anymore.

What happened - did your hero stick it to you?

[VP505]

22. How pathetic

that in 2006 we still have people that want to write discrimination into our constitution. It goes against everything that the word "freedom" could possibly mean. Maybe I don't get it, but, is that really an issue that's important enough to enough people to make it part of a party platform? This alone should demonstrate how un-fit Republicans are to run our government. They rail against SOME dictator/oppressive governments, yet their thinking doesn't seem to be much different.

[OneTwentyoNine]

24. What a shock. Those asswipes would only be happy if Bush said..

He was going to systematically round up anyone and everyone who was gay,thought about being gay or looked gay and had then SHOT or tortured.

Those RW fanatics are beyond belief....

[Raksha]

82. You're absolutely right! These people can't internalize victory.

They are incapable of it and they are NEVER satisfied. They will always see themselves as "victims" NO MATTER WHAT. It doesn't matter how many bones the Bush administration throws them or many of "their" justices get appointed to the Supreme Court and every other court. As long as there even one liberal "activist judge" anywhere in the country they will STILL see themselves as an oppressed minority, or maybe an oppressed majority. They won't be happy until their theocracy is a fait accompli, until they can take revenge on the big bad secular humanist culture that has "oppressed" them for so long.

Their definition of "oppression" isn't the same as ours. If they can't throw their weight around in EVERY area of American life and force the rest of us to toe the line, they are going to see themselves as oppressed and persecuted.

Their phony sense of victimization is going to be their undoing, because they are not the majority and never will be. When the rest of the country (including most non-fundie consservatives) realizes they are never going to be satisfied, they will end up being permanently marginalized as they deserve.

[A Simple Game]

92. "round up anyone and everyone who was gay"

Well, everyone except Jeff.

[AlCzervik]

26. duh!!! You morans got punked, bout time you figured that out.

and he didn't even leave money on the bedside table.

[MallRat]

29. The religious right is sick of empty talk.

They can see right through this.

Bush has had 6 years, nearly total control of both houses of Congress, and ample opportunities to stack the Federal bench with conservatives. And yet, none of the cornerstones of the fundamentalist Christian social agenda have been enacted.

They've finally put 2 and 2 together: the religious right has been used and abused by this Administration, and they're going to stay home in droves.

-MR

[President Kerry]

65. hahah. right.

Jerry Falwell for President! Time for the Taliban to be revived.

[Beetwasher]

30. This Whole Spectacle May Very Likely Send Him Into a NOSEDIVE

People are sick to death over his bullshit.

[thoughttheater]

33. The Question Is If They Will Turn Out To Vote

Read an analysis of the Bush / Rove strategy that points out that despite the grumbling from many far right Republicans, the vote on the marriage amendment, even though it won't pass, is part of a calculated effort to turn out record numbers of conservative voters in November...here:

www.thoughttheater.com

[wryter2000]

39. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[Felinity]

44. Fool me once . . .

. . . won't get fooled again

I think it won't work this time because now these poor, manipulated, sub-masses are conflicted. Nothing says stay home from the polls like a little internal conflict.

"I really want a marriage amendment, but there's no hope it will pass, and they've promised so much and delivered so little. Maybe I'll go just to vote for the amendment, and not even vote for candidates; I think I'll pray about it first. Should I, shouldn't I? Time for a little more bible reading. Maybe I'll go later."

Inertia. It's a very good thing.

By the way, where is the Religious Left? It shouldn't be so hard to out-Jesus these people now, "Oh, the immorality!" Surely the corruption and bloodshed are starting to look perplexing by now? And being pandered to is so tedious.

[dave420]

34. If protecting marriage is such a big deal...

... why isn't adultery illegal? Or Vegas-style quickie weddings? Or divorce? Surely those are more of a risk towards marriage than gay folks trying to be happy. Oh, wait - Republicans love that shit. My bad. sorry.

[wryter2000]

40. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[ktlyon]

78. I once had a divorced father, living with the mother of his third

child tell me gays would ruin marriage.

[YankeyMCC]

35. Which means...

what exactly?

Yes they're finally figuring it out, that the people they are putting in office have different agendas than they do and only 'use' issues like same-sex marriage to get elected.

But does that mean these people will stop voting or if they continue to vote who will win those votes and why? Will the same people who've finally figured out they've been used also figure out they should vote based on real practical matters of good governance or just give up?

I suppose either of those two alternatives is good electorally for the Democratic party...but I'd had to see any group just pass up their right to vote and when any minority even one I so vehemently disagree with on many social issues feels disenfranchised it is bad for democracy. I would like to see the DNC reach out with a voter education imitative to try and 'convert' these people to vote on practical matters and embrace separation of church and state and stop voting to control other people's morality.

[TankLV]

59. "convert these peole to vote on practical matters and embrace separation

of church and state and stop voting to control other people's morality"

NO! WE don't WANT or NEED these bigots and assholes in OUR party! Period.

It won't work because those asswipes WANT thorough INTEGRATION of church & state and DEMAND to control other people's morality!

WE need to MARGINALIZE & PREVENT these asswipes from getting NEAR our party!

You are seriously deluded to even consider your suggestions!

[YankeyMCC]

63. Sorry no

First I never said anything about making them democrats.

Second I would never support disenfranchising Anyone - ANYONE. If they become real issue voters then their prejudices don't come into it. No human is free of bias and prejudice but we all have a vested interest in good governance - that's the the whole idea here.

As long as they vote the way they vote now, just to suppress other's rights and control the morality of others I'm happy when they stay home. What I'm saying is take advantage of this moment of enlightenment on their part that they are just being played when they vote this way and get them to vote based on real issues. Once they become responsible voters then they have as much right as anyone to vote and should not be disenfranchised.

I do not support one party rule, I'm not so arrogant to think I have all the answers for all people. I don't like it when people do not take the responsibilities that come along with rights like the right to vote seriously and dutifully and nor do I like it when others presume to disenfranchise people who DO take their responsibilities and duties seriously.

PS: Try having a discussion with someone, maybe at least make a superficial attempt to understand their point of view before calling them delusional in your first first response.

[Raksha]

84. No...just NO, dammit! I will NOT "reach out" to these people!

Re >>As long as they vote the way they vote now, just to suppress other's rights and control the morality of others I'm happy when they stay home. What I'm saying is take advantage of this moment of enlightenment on their part that they are just being played when they vote this way and get them to vote based on real issues.<<

They have been TRAINED to hate liberals and they consider us the embodiment of all evil. I hate them right back and I don't care who knows it! There is nothing to be gained from "reaching out" to them because they will never listen to anything we have to say. I'd rather spend my time and energy trying to motivate an apathetic Democrat to actually vote than waste a minute on a hardcore Regressive.

[YankeyMCC]

85. So hate and more hate

and more stereotyping - in other words more self-blinding of the humanity of individuals in favor of grouping them all together into a comfortable stereotype.

And yes I'm aware many of these people are doing exactly that to liberals and democrats...I will fight that side by side with you and anyone else...I will NOT become guilty of the same offense.

[Raksha]

96. It's not a "comfortable" stereotype and I didn't create it.

But it *IS* based on reality. Anyone who demonizes me--and who has been systematically demonizing me and all "libruls" for 20+ years--is going to get demonized right back, and I refuse to apologize for that TO ANYONE!!!

[YankeyMCC]

102. I didn't ask you to apologize

it is a comfortable stereotype just like all stereotypes because it means you don't have to deal with the 'uncomfortable' reality of people's real situations and real range of ideas and attitudes.

I can't subscribe to any position that puts people into a stereotype for me to dismiss their humanity even if many of them are doing exactly that to me. On edit: Perhaps Especially if they are doing this.

You say I can't convince you...well I'm sorry but neither will you convince me it is ok to support disenfranchisement of ANY group of people or subscribe to the idea that is ever good for a democracy for ANY group to be discouraged from voting rather than trying to get them to vote responsibly.

And I'll never subscribe to stereotyping ANY group of people or that the answer to hate is more hate as good ideas.

[calimary]

109. There may be something to be said for "taste of their own medicine"

but it's hard. I can see both sides on this.

I, too, hate them for hating me because I'm liberal, because I DON'T want discrimination written into the Constitution, because I DON'T want the separation of church and state blurred or dismantled, because I DON'T want the American Taliban calling the shots, because I DON'T want the government forcibly inserted into my private parts, or those of my daughter, or of ANY OTHER WOMAN, for that matter, because I DON'T want the government snooping and spying around my writing and messaging and phone calls.

They hate me because of things like that.

But maybe they just don't know me, that I'm not a raging Commie or terr'ist, that I'm just another mom who wants a wonderful America for her kids, and a peaceful retirement for myself, and a healed, open, cooperative and mutually-beneficial relationship with everyone else in our community of nations that inhabits our planet.

It's easy to hate what's been demonized. You hate what you don't know and what you fear. And yeah, that'd fit me because I don't know these people (couldn't POSSIBLY understand why they lust after this horribly wrong, judgmental, harmful, and hate-filled stuff) and I do fear them for what their lopsided and incomprehensible clout has allowed them to do, not to mention what they'd still like to do that they feel is part of an unfulfilled agenda.

Frankly, I WOULD like to reach out to them, but I'm not sure there's much reaching out that's possible. I had an encounter with one of those Buy-bull people on an airplane once. There was room in our conversation, our presumed back-and-forth exchange of views, for only one person's valid view - his. Not mine. He didn't even want to hear when I'd said when he asked the inevitable question - "are you saved?" When I said I was a lifelong Catholic, he still asked if I'd "been saved," because it clearly meant I had NOT yet been saved by HIS specific formula of what-it-is-to-become-saved. And Catholicism wasn't enough. It had to be HIS brand of religion. And HIS subsect of that brand of religion. So even though we purportedly both worshipped the same Jesus, it really wasn't an equivalence. The only thing that I found successfully got him to stop bothering me was to fake him out. I had to pretend that, finally, yes, ah Saw the Light, say hallelujah, and I decided I DID wanna be saved (his way), and here's my phone number so we can talk about this agin (I gave him a fake phone number). ONLY THEN did we reach some sort of "meeting of the minds." NO OTHER VIEW was valid with this fellow except his own - and it had to be valid to every last little detail. Lifelong Roman Catholicism wasn't good enough or pure enough to fit his standards.

I still remember something another DUer said here a long time ago, and I'm sorry I don't remember who said it so he/she could be given credit. But somebody here pointed out, before the 2004 election, that the only thing that might help get the best of these people and make them slither away (at least temporarily) was if they got the snot beaten out of them at the polls. The only thing they'd understand would be a ferocious shellacking of epic proportions - that would at least momentarily shut them up, and shock them into the realization that they REALLY and TRULY are NOT the majority and are not even close, and that they're better off confining it to their own little subgroupings and trying to be satisfied with that, rather than converting and overrunning and tyrannizing every last poor soul in this country. What they need is a hideous humiliation at the polls that marginalizes them for all to see, and puts them back in their places. Remember, they pushed and pushed and got bush, again, to the point where he could steal another election, and they correctly noted that it WAS them who did that, and that they now were OWED, BIGTIME. And they wanted their pound of flesh from bush and everybody else they put into office. That's where bush's "political capital" harangue came from. I think he was subtly telegraphing to them that he knew who brought him to the dance and by God (!) he was gonna dance with 'em.

[think4yourself]

110. Beautiful post!

I thoroughly enjoyed reading that. Thank you. I agree they do need an ass kicking of divine proportion. Then the supposed 29% should shut up and get with the MAJORITY of UNITED AMERICA and work to get this country back on track. It's gonna take years to rebuild what this Administration did to my country. We can't afford another term of this craziness.

[TankLV]

105. That's complete BULLSHIT and you know it!

So, you have a bunch of CRIMINALS, and WE are wrong to HATE them?

GET A FUCKING CLUE!

NO! THESE PEOPLE DESERVE NO SUPPORT, OUTREACH OR SYMPATHY! THEY ARE CLUELESS. THEY ARE LOST!

YOU don't get it!

[YankeyMCC]

107. No I don't "know it" as you put it

and I think you make it fairly obvious who it is that actually needs to 'get a clue' with your behavior.

You kinda make my point...instead of being able to respectfully disagree you attack me for having a different approach or idea than you.

Well if that's what makes you happy go right on behaving this way. I will not subscribe to that ideal.

[Snaggletooth]

72. You can't really believe it is possible to "convert" people!

It can't be done. The only way to even get them to pretend to be something other than what they are is to subject them and theirs to extreme, relentless violence. Is that what you are suggesting?

Snaggletooth the Crone

[YankeyMCC]

77. Pretend?

I don't know if it's possible...it certainly isn't going to happen if no one tries that's for sure.

It seems likely that there are some that will never exercise their right to vote responsibly but we're not talking about a single monolithic mind here these are people - yes we disagree and on some issues VERY much disagree - but they are individuals with different ideas, level of stubbornness, good and bad ideas running around in their minds just like me and you.

Reach out without arrogance and hubris and the more voters we create like that the better for us all.

The only way to truly fail is to fail to try.

[ClintonTyree]

103. Stop making sense.........

everything you've said is spot on. The Republicans have made it their business over the past 25 years to drive a wedge between Americans. Mr. "uniter, not a divider" himself is largely responsible for the political division within our country today. I'm not at all comfortable with the "issues voters", but I'll be damned if I'll let their overlords succeed in diving our country along party lines. If we fail to reach out to the "other side" then we've become no better than their divisive overlords.
We are, or should be, ONE country, not splintered combative groups of single "issues" voters intent upon pushing our own myopic views. This country MUST become whole again. I believe it's up to us, Democrats, to start the healing procedure because I sincerely doubt it will be started by the other side. Their raison d'etre has been division and I can't see them reversing course now.
I think enough of their rank and file have become disillusioned with those tactics and are at least willing to start a dialog with Progressives IF we make the first move toward reconciliation.
I've been as angry as the others here who want nothing to do with "the other side" but age has taught me that hate begets MORE hate and it's a never ending cycle. Someone must attempt to break that cycle and that mantle rests squarely upon OUR shoulders. Two years ago you'd have never heard these words come from my lips, but as I say, age has changed me. It's time to heal our nation and make it whole again because a nation divided cannot stand. Someone famous said that ;) and it rings as true today as it did them.

[TankLV]

106. Stop speaking NONSENSE!

These people ARE the ENEMY, in every way, shape & form!

THEY WANT US DEAD!

Is that clear enough for you?!!!!

THEY are not simply satisfied until THEIR version of the old testament of their bible is applied to US!

GET A FUCKING CLUE ALREADY!

[ClintonTyree]

111. You just don't see it, do you?

You've become exactly like them now. Everything you rail against is within you at this very moment. And I'm the one that needs to, "GET A FUCKING CLUE ALREADY"? :eyes: Enjoy your hate filled life. I refuse to lower myself to that level. You apparently have little problem scraping the bottom though. Enjoy.

[Zhade]

114. That's way out of line.

The other poster is coming from a place of FEAR FOR HIS EXISTENCE, and you dismiss hom as 'hate-filled'. I think that's reprehensible.

Perhaps you can't understand the very real fear of dominionist-types and their LaHaye-ite enablers destroying our happiness, our sense of security, and potentially even our very lives with their breed of "stone the fags till they's dead" Christianity, but you shouldn't confuse that very real fear with being filled with hate.

Such strong antipathy toward the aforementioned Taliban Klan should be understood for what it is: a learned defense mechanism against those who literally wish people like us DEAD.

[ClintonTyree]

119. I see........

the poster can attack me for my beliefs that we shouldn't hate these people, that we should instead try rational discourse as a means of bridging the vast chasm between us but I'm not allowed to answer that attack? :eyes:
The fact of the matter is that there is a very small percentage of "christians" who are that militant, that manic about "destroying our happiness, our sense of security.......". You're playing right into their hands with your fear mongering. This coming from a devout "Pastsfarian" who doesn't believe the religious dogma in the first place. Chill out. I'm allowed to rebut anyone who attacks ME on this board and if you find that "reprehensible", too freaking bad! Have a nice day! Oh, and watch out for those blood thirsty christians lurking around every corner waiting to disembowel you. ;)

[Zhade]

113. With all due respect, why should WE be the ones to make the first step?

These people hate the very essences of who we are (in my case, a liberal progressive pansexual atheist friend-of-the-herb).

Thus, they fear us, which is what informs their hate. I don't see how approaching them will allay that inborn fear. To be perfectly honest, I don't think anyone like that is approachable until they themselves are ready to be approached, at which point fairness and decency demand that THEY make the first move, as THEY are the ones coming from a hateful place.

I am not above reconciling with people whom I've vociferously disagreed with, but they have to lose the hate and hubris first.

In my mind, ball's in THEIR fucking court.

[YankeyMCC]

115. Leadership

We don't "have to" do anything. But it would certainly demonstrate leadership and our core values.

And by they way I'm not sure 'reconciliation' has anything to do with what I've said. I certainly have anger toward people on the political right and people who've voted for Bush. I have friendships with some people who voted for Bush. I'm sure there are many - I know one or two - who I would never have a friendship with and would never 'reconcile' with.

But I would reach out to them if the moment is right (as it may be with this dawning that they've been used) in the sense of engaging them in discussion again about being a responsible voter and on what basis they should be voting. Not How they should vote but what issues they should consider (how taxes are spent instead of who is marrying who for instance) and how they should decide, facts (and where to find them) vs spin and myths.

I can do that and still not like the person or the votes they cast. That is democracy as a core value.

[young_at_heart]

38. I'll bet Frist will be standing next to him with a big smile

It will be the same self-righteous group that stood with him for the ridiculous Medicare bill.

[Wise Doubter]

42. So, will gays and lesbians still have to pay taxes ??!!

Why should they pay for courts and judges, etc. if they can`t use them to their fullest capacity ?

How many people in that same system (judges down to clerks) are gay themselves?

Homosexuality have been around since the beginning of time. It ain`t gonna change. The heart wants what the heart wants.


Every gay/lesbian that I know came from straight parents. Hmm.......


The life style is not for me, but I do have respect for gay people as people. When I got out of prison in `97 I couldn't find a job. No one wanted to hire me. I constantly had to fudge my application(sorry, I`m not a celebrity) RJ Gordon hired me and never ran a background check. After about a month I just couldn't`t take the inner voices so I told him EVERYTHING. He respected my honesty and loyalty. I eventually became his lead computer systems tech. He was a good man.


Oh,... and he was gay, and so was most of the office.

As a victim of discrimination I can say from personal experience that it is not a good thing.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

45. I predict this will cost the Assclown 5% points in his approval

rating. Most people don't want this nutcase doing ANYTHING else. Like Bill Maher said, "Just go to the ranch and be a cowboy, don't touch anything else..."

[alfredo]

46. As much as the right hates gays, are they willing to change

our constitution to punish them?

[Bretttido]

49. Great Picture!

[alfredo]

52. Thanks. There's some great political cartoons at Yahoo comics.

[Runcible Spoon]

80. Welcome to DU Bretttido!

:hi:

[Janice325]

47. Where is Mary Cheney now?

Is she still out shilling her book? :puke:
I wonder if anyone in the media will question her about this.
k&r

[Catchawave]

60. Thought the same thing....

...good ole' Mare, where is she? This most certainly affect her, won't it?

I saw one of her interviews and she said her and her partner were legally protected through documents and wills. Wouldn't a "marriage ammendment" negate that partnership?

[Snaggletooth]

74. No. It would not.

People are allowed to leave their estates to anyone they want to, there is no biological or legal relationship required. We can assign anyone as the beneficiary of our insurance policies and can assign legal proxy to anyone we choose to make medical and financial decisions on our behalf.

Snaggletooth the Crone

[BigDDem]

108. Spineless Mary is sitting on the sidelines

counting her money and "waiting for the govt to catch up."

[DirtyDawg]

48. So they see this as...

...merely pandering lip-service...as too little, too late. That having been said I have to wonder, just what would they have been happy with? Lining up all the gays and lesbians and shooting 'em? These 'focus on the family' types, and the whole lot of holy-rollers that have decided to make it their mission in life to cram their idea of religion down the rest of our throats, need to be marginalized, isolated and cut loose. Let 'em have South Carolina. At least that way we could keep an eye on 'em. Hell, we could even give 'em the National Park at Fort Sumter...they ought to be happy with the symbolism of that. After all, it'll probably take a lot less of a fence to surround SC...I'd even be willing to let them declare independence.

Now if we can get Robertson, Falwell and the Mormons to re-locate there we'd really be on to something.

[Amonester]

55. Online Petition: "Don't Use Discrimination for Partisan Gain"

http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/lgbtdiscrmntn


Don't Trample on LGBT Americans for Partisan Gain
http://www.dnc.org/blog.html
(GLLC Executive Director Brian Bond sent an e-mail to folks asking them to support our efforts to tell President Bush and Senator Frist to not use discrimination for partisan gain.)

Imagine for a moment that you're Republican Bill Frist, the Senate's Majority Leader, and you have the power and awesome responsibility to control what issues the Senate considers and when it considers them. Knowing everything you do about the crises facing our nation and the things that most concern Americans, would your top priority be to:

A) Force the administration to change its failed strategy in Iraq

B) Help consumers walloped by $3.00 a gallon gas and take steps to reduce our oil addiction

C) Pass the first minimum wage increase in 10 years and develop plans to create good jobs in America

D) Expand educational opportunities for college by providing relief from skyrocketing college tuition

E) Ensure access to health care for every American

F) Amend the Constitution to deprive gay people of equal rights under the law

As someone who cares deeply about this nation, its problems and its future, you probably said A, B, C, D, or E. But Republican Majority Leader Frist chose F.

Why? Because it's an election year, and Republicans are in deep trouble. So they've decided that instead of addressing the things Americans really care about, they're trying to change the subject and using wedge issues in hopes of distracting from their failures and dividing Americans to win elections.

This time, LGBT families are the pawns in their political game. And this time, the American Constitution is their political playing field.

Majority Leader Bill Frist plans to bring up the "Federal Marriage Amendment" as the first order of business when Senators return on Monday. And to drive the message home, President Bush will host a Rose Garden event that same day, to reiterate his support for this divisive, unnecessary and diversionary attack on LGBT Americans and on our Constitution--even though his own Vice President opposes the amendment and his own wife says it's wrong to use this issue as a campaign tool.

This is a sad moment in American history. Over two hundred years ago, our nation's founders and framers thought guaranteeing rights and protections was so important that the first ten Constitutional amendments they proposed, which the states soon ratified, were an explicit Bill of Rights for individuals and for states.

Now, in an unprecedented move, Bill Frist and George Bush hope to convert this bedrock document that confers liberties and freedom into one that erases them. They want to deny equal rights under the law because of individuals' sexual orientation--and they want to deny to states avenues that would allow them to recognize and extend equal rights and protections to the LGBT community and their families.

This is shameful and wrong. It hurts LGBT Americans and their families, and it is inconsistent with the constitutional values that set us apart as a nation-and with how we do things in America.

Democrats are committed to equal rights for every American; we oppose discrimination in all their forms. We think it's wrong for the federal government to bar states from extending rights and protections to all their residents. We believe no church, synagogue or mosque should be told by the government whom they may or may not marry. And when it comes to government services and benefits, every citizen and taxpayer should receive equal treatment.

You can show Bill Frist just how wrong he is by signing this petition to stop this divisive amendment and tell him to put the Senate to work on the things that really matter to America and to Americans. Sign on here, and your message will be delivered the day the Senate begins debating the issue:

http://www.democrats.org/lgbtdiscrimination

Republicans have intentionally put divisive, anti-gay initiatives on the ballot in many states as well, and no doubt many nervous GOP Congressmen hope they can get reelected by scapegoating LGBT Americans instead of dealing with the challenges confronting our nation.

But for the first time in our party's history, we are fighting them everywhere. Through our 50-state strategy, we are providing state Democratic parties with needed resources, training and message assistance to fight these measures. At the national level, we are working closely with the leadership of key groups to magnify our capacities. And, around the nation, we are aggressively recruiting volunteers to take a message of equality, tolerance and results on issues that matter into every community.

Sending a powerful message to Bill Frist and George Bush that legislating discrimination defames good people and defiles our Constitution is an important first step in turning our nation around and in beating back efforts at both the federal and state level to scapegoat Americans for partisan gain. But our success depends on you -- so please take part in this action, and learn about what more you can do in the weeks and months ahead:

http://www.democrats.org/lgbtdiscrimination

With hard work and the participation of every American who has had enough, next year we could have a Majority Leader in the U.S. Senate whose answer to our opening quiz looks a lot more like yours.

Thank you,

Brian

Brian Bond
Executive Director, GLLC
Democratic National Committee
http://www.dnc.org/blog.html

[LostInAnomie]

56. Yeah, right.

These dumb ass Bible thumpers haven't been able to see through the Pro-Life shit their Repuke Congressmen and Senators spew every election cycle, but never deliver on, in 20+ years. Why would we think that these dim-wits would be able to see through the Gay Marriage trick on only the second go round?

These morans never catch on. They'll listen to *'s speech, hear the coded Biblical messages and trigger words, and fall back into the fold. There is no hope of them ever coming around.

[closeupready]

66. That's why I though Howard Dean's appearance on the 700 Club was such a

losing move.

[moblsv]

57. More from the great divider.

Bush again attempting to portray himself as the defender of morals. When the Democrats vote this down, in order to protect the consitution, they will be portrayed by faux news as the immoral, anti-religion party and it will spread through the media and Internet discussions for the uneducated to rally behind.

More of the same. Republican politics dividing the country and solving nothing.

Why do Republicans hate America and the Constitution?

[Initech]

58. Wow, even the fundies think this is a sinking ship.

:nopity:

[moblsv]

61. LDS church tells congregations to support it

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has spent millions of dollars campaigning against gay marriage, on Sunday urged members to lobby U.S. senators on the proposed constitutional amendment that would limit marriage to being between a man and a woman.

The Church sent a letter to its congregational leaders throughout the United States that was to be read to the congregations Sunday.

The letter from the First Presidency -- church President Gordon B. Hinckley and his counselors -- noted the church leaders "have repeatedly set forth our position that the marriage of a man and a woman is the only acceptable marriage relationship."

The letter noted that the Senate was scheduled to vote on the proposed marriage amendment on June 6, and said, "We urge our members to express themselves on this urgent matter to their elected representatives in the Senate."

Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, is a co-sponsor of the amendment.

[Divine Discontent]

67. LDS members I worry swallow too much kool aid

and I consider some my friends, and they're sweet, but they treat their founder like a deity..


that's the ones I've met, I'm sure there's gotta be some normal LDS members out there... I'd hope.



www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable CHECK THIS STICKER SHIRT SHOP OUT! well organized!

[Raksha]

83. Ummm...are the Mormons gonna make that ONE man

and ONE woman? Seems they've been a bit careless in that area in the past.

[LuckyLib]

116. Now, let's not get too technical here.

:-)

[Labdad95]

64. It only took 5 years....

For the Bushites to catch on to Bush's pandering.

[bliss_eternal]

73. ...seriously.

Are they THAT stupid, to just now GET they were used?! I know that is a rhetorical question. :P

I know you've been a member a while, but I'll say this anyway....Welcome to DU, Labdad95! :hi:

[Neecy]

68. hmmmm....

So, Bush said that he'd be a 'uniter, not a divider', and then he puts on this little clown show to further divide the American people?

I guess what he meant to say is that he's a 'uniter' only for his whacked out nutjob base - dividing the country is part of the plan.

Sick. He's one sick bastard, this fake president of ours.

[bliss_eternal]

70. Exactly--

It's only taken them five years to figure out the shrub camp used their homophobia and hatred to garner votes, 'eh?

I've only got one thing to say to them....

DUUUUUH! :dunce: :P

[kevinbgoode]

69. I want an amendment saying Republicans can't marry.

They have no moral fiber; no real foundation of family. . .they indoctrinate evil into the lives of children.

I say we let the people decide. The people should have a voice in deciding whether fascists should have legal recognition for procreating.

[Frank Cannon]

71. Dog and pony shows get pretty tiresome...

when you can no longer afford a dog or a pony.

[truthisfreedom]

76. gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay

bushco's obsessed. it's because of rove... he must be the one gannon was servicing.

[Runcible Spoon]

81. Methinks Gannon was servicing MANY in the Shrub Junta

it seems his exodus from the inside circle directly correlated to the disintegration of Bush's inner circle and shit has just gone from horribly wrong to downright irredeemable...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

79. Cheney's lesbian daughter and her girlfriend no doubt agree with Bush

If not, they'd come out against it, right?

[LuckyLib]

117. Talk about a disconnect. Can you imagine living that kind of

a lie?

[DianaForRussFeingold]

86. Realize rejection hurts! Love Stories in Black and White

:hi:Thanks,Great Post! Check out what Republican President Eisenhower has to say about the same type of issue in 1954: On May 18, 1954; "White and Negro children in the same schools will lead to miscegenation. :eyes: Miscegenation leads to mixed marriages and mixed marriages lead to mongrelization of the human race". :rofl: President Eisenhower, while not a progressive on matters of race, was also not as retrograde as the editors of the Daily News, but upon hearing of the decision the President tried helpfully to explain southern sentiment to Chief Justice Earl Warren, author of the Brown decision. "These are not bad people.:crazy: All they are concerned about is to see that their sweet little girls are not required to sit in schools alongside some big black bucks". :rofl: http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=10151143484094

It is this fear of "miscegenation," "mongrelization," and the threat posed by allegedly hyper-sexualized "big black bucks" that makes up the central conflict in Renee Romano's wonderful book, Race Mixing. Romano explores the post-World War II history of interracial marriage, focusing on unions between blacks and whites in the United States. Romano has probed this most vilified of social phenomena in clear, well-written prose and her book is a welcome addition to postwar American social history, and to the burgeoning literature on race, civil rights, ethnicity, gender, and sex (the act as well as the chromosomal configuration). :rofl: ***** When is someone going to make a commercial like these for us Dems Rove could be the door man or operate the rejection button! :shrug: http://www.rejectionhurts.com/media.php :kick:

[Donkeykick]

87. Lets Face it,

the religious right is going to get abused again. When are they going to wake up? :wtf:

[DeaconBlues]

88. Six months before an election?

Time to start talking about those evil homersexuals again!

[demosincebirth]

89. Not even their "hot button" issues are working now.

[meow2u3]

90. Even cons know a partisan con job when they see one

STP to GWB: Your motives are so transparent you can't even fool your fundie base this time. You've gone to that well one time too many. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[GlenP]

91. Ye of little pessimism

Oh ye of little pessimism...

Don't you understand, that they know EXACTLY what they are doing? How the hell do you think they've been able to stay in and gain power despite every indication that they've been running our nation into the ground for their own benefits? Pretty much everything the republicans stand for is antithetical to the vast majority of American's lives, and yet they get elected. How?

Because they KNOW how to play the American people, and more specifically how to play the fanatical base of their party who have been and will continue to be going to the polls in droves for them.

Don't tell me it's not going to work this time. Mid terms are not big crowd draws. The people who will actually take the time and effort to cast a vote in '06 are those who are concerned and paying attention and realize that it's the clowns in office who are destroying America, AND then also the fanatics. And quite frankly they have FAR more fanatics. FAR Left wing fanatics are anarchists that don't participate in the government and want no government control or intrusion into anything (e.g. let me do every and any drug I please whenever I please, drive 120, sleep with 8 year olds and post it on the internet, etc...), so they aren't typically voters. Right wing fanatics are theocrats and want ALL government control and intrusion into American lives (just so long as it imposes their religious beliefs and brings death and destruction to everyone else). THEY are ardent voters.

Don't you understand what right wing fundamentalist nut job religious zealots are capable of doing. Hello!!! 9/11 . The Christian variety of such zealots are right here in America and THEY are voting in large numbers.

Believe me they would MUCH rather go out to vote for someone who AT LEAST talks the talk. They don't care. These people enjoy smoke being blown up their ass. Why do you think they sit in their churches 3+ days a week and believe everything squeezed into their pea sized brains by their messengers-of-god. Furthermore, they DO NOT CARE that things are going to hell in a hand basket. On the contrary they RELISH it. They want it. The covet it. They very much desire it to continue. The worse things get, the closer the neo-cons bring us to the brink of World War III starting in the middle east, the more orgasmic they get in anticipation of the return of Jesus Christ.

Don't worry, actually DO worry, they will be out in droves in November. Several upper level state courts in progressive states are due to rule on same-sex marriage this summer. More than likely they will rule in favor of same-sex marriage, because not only is it the right, and the moral thing, but because it is also clearly the constitutional thing to do.

The neo-con charlatans that are playing the religious zealots like a fiddle, are WELL aware of this, and they are preparing the coup d’état of continued power right out of the hands of the democrats and supporters who are absolutely sure it is ours come November.

Look, I'm not telling you this to depress you or get you down. Only that we had better assume that this race is FAR FAR from won, and that we had better be devising strategies to prevent such an occurrence. The best option is to have a showing at the polls in November '06 like has never been seen before. If we can get FAR more of the American population to vote in the mid-term than has ever been seen, then we can't lose. If not, the religious zealots WILL be there en'masse and the repukes will maintain power. It's as simple (or rather difficult) as that.

[wiley]

100. Absolutely correct. Right now they are activating

their networks of letter writers and phone callers and neighbor drop bys while the Democratic Party argues over whether they should pursue a 50 state strategy. If Democrats do not go house to house, church to church, union hall to loading dock, farm to small business, we will not win in 06. Only a few of them are Roves. The millions are content to serve as a foot soldier on command. And the more crimes and sins the Repukes commit, the more they can ask for forgiveness and re-entry into the fold.

Love your far left wing fanatic description. Sounds like every right wing fanatic I've ever encountered, with the exception that they try to hide what they are doing, especially sexually abusing and molesting their children.

"Sons of the Silent Age, pick up in bars and cry only once" Bowie

[Zambero]

93. This will solidify Bush's 29% "base"

Preaching to the choir: Homos are BAAAAAAADD! (Applause).
They will DESTROY your marriages. (Shrieks!)
Mission accomplished. Go ye with the Lord, Christian brethren. (Reassuring looks of smug self-righteousness)

The other 71%: (Yawn...)

[Proud Liberal Dem]

97. Terri Schiavo Redux?

Hopefully, this debate will end up being like the Terri Schiavo debate last year for Bush and the GOP which is to say that, hopefully, by Bush so prominently positioning himself in favor of this amendment (and working hard for it) that it makes the average American aware of just how intolerant and hateful Bush (and the entire GOP) has become, how he is advocating for unjustifiably meddling in other people's personal lives, and how he is choosing to focus his time and energy on this particular issue INSTEAD of those issues that directly affect most Americans such as the War in Iraq, high gas prices, unemployment, crumbling public schools, etc. I sincerely hope that this ends up being a disaster for Bush and the whole anti-gay movement.

[wiley]

101. Might want to read this.

June 3, 2006
Op-Ed Contributor
How to Grow a Democratic Majority
By DANIEL GALVIN

New Haven

To establish a new majority, Republicans aggressively built up their organizational presence in weak Republican areas, especially in the South. As early as the 1950's, they ran schools to train activists and campaign managers. By the 1970's, they were developing new methods of recruiting candidates and enrolling party workers and volunteers; they created teams of "field men" to travel from campaign to campaign to lend their expertise where needed; they built new small-donor fund-raising networks and became adept at sending money where it needed to go; and they invested in technology and voter database management. What's more, these practices were disseminated down to the local level.

RECENTLY, an internal disagreement in the Democratic Party made headlines. That probably sounds familiar, since disagreements over party strategy are nothing new in the Democratic Party.

But the recent conflict between Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, chairman of the Democratic campaign committee in the House, and Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, is more than just another family squabble — it shows just how difficult changing the course of party history can be.

Mr. Emanuel and others have questioned Mr. Dean's program to build the party organization in red states as well as blue ones. They want the committee to spend its money on key Congressional races this fall because they believe that the party has a chance to win control of the House in 2006 if it pours its resources into the most competitive races.

Mr. Dean has a different approach. He believes that for the Democrats to regain the majority and make it stick, they will have to build a strong organizational foundation everywhere, even in those places where Democrats don't have an immediate chance. Democrats may not win many red-state races this year, but Mr. Dean believes that they will be better off in the long run if they start shoring up the party in Republican strongholds now.

What is missing from the current debate is a clearer appreciation for how the Democrats got to where they are today, and how the current leaders might learn from the record of the past.

Since the New Deal, Democrats have given party building short shrift. Democratic presidents tended to use the formal party apparatus as an instrument for raising money but looked to other vehicles for building political support. They relied on organized labor to get out the vote; on urban machines and congressmen in the South to control local party operations; and on the strength of incumbents to win their own re-elections.

While this was a winning formula, it could not last forever. By failing to create durable organizational capacities in their party, Democrats were often forced to cobble together new political networks with each campaign season. Republican presidents and party chairmen, on the other hand, were driven by their perpetual Congressional minority status to strengthen their organization as a means of expanding their party. While Republicans won many presidential elections, they were the perennial losers in Congressional and state-level elections and did not gain parity with the Democrats among self-identified partisan voters until 2004.

To establish a new majority, Republicans aggressively built up their organizational presence in weak Republican areas, especially in the South. As early as the 1950's, they ran schools to train activists and campaign managers. By the 1970's, they were developing new methods of recruiting candidates and enrolling party workers and volunteers; they created teams of "field men" to travel from campaign to campaign to lend their expertise where needed; they built new small-donor fund-raising networks and became adept at sending money where it needed to go; and they invested in technology and voter database management. What's more, these practices were disseminated down to the local level.

For example, Republican presidents focused on party building in the historically Democratic states of South Carolina and Virginia in the 1970's. They gave local leaders the resources they needed to develop a campaign-support system that would entice attractive candidates to run for office as Republicans. Political neophytes, like business and religious leaders, were promised support — if only they would take a chance on running.

New candidates and activists were sent to work for the national committee, the White House, the Congressional campaign committees and affiliated political action groups. Many of the most prominent Republican leaders of the recent past — Karl Rove, Ed Gillespie — got their start participating in party-building programs.

Using detailed voter lists, phone banks and grass-roots workers, Republicans began to collect wins — at the mayoral, state legislative and, eventually, the gubernatorial and Congressional levels. Each victory softened the electorate's view of the Republican Party; more Republican officeholders encouraged more Republican voters; more Republican voters encouraged more and better Republican candidates to run for office.

And because every Republican president since Eisenhower contributed enthusiastically to these party-building efforts, the party was able to benefit from White House largess, presidential fund-raising prowess and the power of presidential persuasion.

Republicans did not emerge from the minority by trying to win a bare majority in the House or Senate. They put their organization to work for them and discovered that party building bred more party building.

This seems to be precisely what Howard Dean is trying to do. By developing an organizational structure now, Mr. Dean hopes that the Democrats will have something sturdy to rely on if, and when, they win back the White House.

It's uncertain whether Mr. Dean will succeed. After all, Mr. Emanuel makes a persuasive argument for his approach. Why should the Democrats trade a chance to win the House now for an uncertain future?

The answer? Because a victory now will most likely be short-term. As the Republicans have shown, creating a durable electoral majority requires a firm organizational foundation, something the Democrats don't have. But if Mr. Dean can hold fast to his plan, they just might be on the way to getting one.

Daniel Galvin, a doctoral candidate in political science at Yale, will be an assistant professor of political science at Northwestern University this fall.

[Oak2004]

118. This article is absolutely correct

I was influenced by a number of factors when I chose to become a Republican in the early '70's, but what sealed the deal was their magnificent professional party machinery versus the near-absence of party organization among the Dems. Even after Watergate it was obvious to me that the Republican Party was the party of destiny, the party with a bright future, the place you wanted to be if you wanted to make a difference and get things done. Everyone, for example, who came through the College Republicans could come away with a professional education in how to run a campaign (they came away with exposure to some of the CR's corrupt underbelly, too, but that's another story). Members of the Campus Democrats came away with the opportunity to, as far as I could tell, have a few pizza parties while working haphazardly for a candidate or two on the fringes making phone calls.

And it was the party of destiny. Unfortunately it was destined to be taken over by the lunatic Right, which then used it to do what it really wanted done: wars, atrocities, debt, destruction of the constitution, etc. The rest of us got to leave, shut up, or get coopted into the neocon/dominionist alliance.

[Lost4words]

120. At about the same time I viewed the GOP as the crooks of the country.

I really dont think Republicans love the United States, or our constitution. They seem to want two branches of rule, The King and the Church.

I am proud we started as revolutionaries, the 70% of us that is.... the 30% wanted to stay under the king of england.

Thats how I view republicans, as those loyal to and financially benefiting from the crown.

Traitors in effect to our system and our heritage.

DONT THREAD ON ME! Is the revolutionary flag I most relate to.

GOP---DONT THREAD ON ME.

Repukes seem to be people who need a reason to look down on others, I don't know why, just 52 years of observation.

[Oak2004]

121. I came from a place where there were at least as many Dem crooks

Richard J. Daley's election stealing and protester-head-cracking machine. There were a lot of liberal Republicans in Cook County in those days.

I kept the affiliation when I left the area, largely because of the superior political organization, until it became clear that there was no longer any place for liberals (or even moderates) within the Republican Party.

[Righteous9]

104. Only a Republican would want to see a dog and pony show...

Deviant sickos....