Judicial Watch to Obtain September 11 Pentagon Video at 1 p.m. Today

[sabra]

http://www.judicialwatch.org/5772.shtml

Judicial Watch to Obtain September 11 Pentagon Video at 1 p.m. Today

Department of Defense Responds to Judicial Watch Freedom of Information Act Request and Related Lawsuit

(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, announced today that Department of Defense will release a videotape to Judicial Watch at 1:00 p.m. this afternoon that allegedly shows American Airlines Flight 77 striking the Pentagon on September 11, 2001. The Department of Defense is releasing the videotape in response to a Judicial Watch Freedom of Information Act request and related lawsuit.

“This is in response to your December 14, 2004 Freedom of Information Act Request, FOIA appeal of March 27, 2005, and complaint filed in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia,” wrote William Kammer, Chief of the Department of Defense, Office of Freedom of Information. “Now that the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui is over, we are able to complete your request and provide the video…”

Judicial Watch originally filed a Freedom of Information Act request on December 15, 2004, seeking all records pertaining to September 11, 2001 camera recordings of the Pentagon attack from the Sheraton National Hotel, the Nexcomm/Citgo gas station, Pentagon security cameras and the Virginia Department of Transportation. The Department of Defense admitted in a January 26, 2005 letter that it possessed a videotape responsive to Judicial Watch’s request. However, the Pentagon refused to release the videotape because it was, “part of an ongoing investigation involving Zacarias Moussaoui.” Judicial Watch filed a lawsuit on February 22, 2006 arguing that there was “no legal basis” for the Defense Department’s refusal to release the tape.

“We fought hard to obtain this video because we felt that it was very important to complete the public record with respect to the terrorist attacks of September 11,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “Finally, we hope that this video will put to rest the conspiracy theories involving American Airlines Flight 77. As always, our prayers remain with all those who suffered as a result of those murderous attacks.”

[dennis4868]

1. It won't put to rest.....

That Bush allowed 911 to happen.....

[goforit]

24. intentionally made it happen (in my opinion)

[SammyWinstonJack]

131. IMIH LIHOP MIHOP. They all fit.

[brianzero]

Here are some screen captures and enlargements of the video...

I did a screen capture of the 'object' from the new video
prior to its impact with the Pentagon. I enlarged the image
of the object. I put a red box around the object in question.
The first is the original sized image. Scroll down to the enlarged
image.

[Javaman]

139. Wow, everythings cleared up now!

so the cough up a bunch of blurry ass stills and that is suppose to pacify us???

Moron* lies about EVERYTHING, why this time do we believe he's telling the truth?????

they lie and lie and lie, and when they are all done with that, they lie some more.

they are incapable of telling the truth.

MIHOP, LIHOP.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

148. How Flight 77 Hitting The Pentagon Would Really Look?

the article here shows a doctored .gif wondering if somthing like this was relaesed, would it be swallowed hook, line and sinker?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/170506reallylook.htm

snip:
Is this what Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon would really look like from nearby security cameras instead of the nondescript blur footage we have been subject to?

This is obviously a crude collection of doctored frames but if the government had released something similar yesterday would you have believed it? Many would.

Wary therefore we are of the potential for the government to eventually release clear footage of the impact from the 84 other cameras that were dotted around the Pentagon and would have easily documented the event to debunk 9/11 skeptics. more..

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/170506reallylook.htm

[PhuLoi]

141. I noticed that at frame 24+/-, that cannot be a commercial air

carrier. My wife, the graphics savant, will be analyzing it more closely this evening. This scrap of video reinforces the validity of the LooseChange films explanation.

[truebrit71]

2. About damned time!

This should have been released immediately. The Moussaoui line is pure bullshit.

Let's see what it shows.

[Common Sense Party]

3. What Moussaoui line? nt

[quickesst]

7. That...

they couldn't release the video until the trial was over. I wonder how long this has been the excuse. Since 9/11/01? Think about it. After watching Star Wars, The Matrix, etc., how difficult with their resources would it be. Another thing, if they are going to release the tape from the Pentagon camera, why not release the tapes from the gas station and the hotel across the freeway?
Even if it turns out to be authentic, I still say Bush and company have a lot to answer for. Their inaction prior to and after 9/l1 deserves investigation, if for no other reason, but for the incomparable incompetence displayed that day. I truly believe if someone else was in charge, someone with a brain of their own, and a desire to do the best thing for America and it's citizens, this tragedy would not have happened, or at the least, some lives could have been saved. MIHOP, LIHOP, or just INCOMPETENCE, they should have to answer. Thanks.
quickesst

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

20. Umm...

After watching Star Wars, The Matrix, etc., how difficult with their resources would it be.

So the government has its own version of Pixar now?

[tridim]

62. Anybody can composite video on their home PC at "Hollywood" quality

Not that this video shows anything new anyway. It's the same as the old video we've seen.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

129. Uh huh.

That's why Pixar, PDI, and ILM are all out of business.

[WinkyDink]

149. "[N]ow"? How about decades?!

[KansDem]

29. "MIHOP, LIHOP, or just INCOMPETENCE, they should have to answer"

It is now known that Bush spied on Americans prior to 9/11. He had warnings about Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. In the traditional meeting between the out-going and in-coming presidents, Clinton told Bush that Osama and AQ terrorism were America's number on security concern. It was also known that OBL and AQ was responsible for the USS Cole attack.

So why in the Hell didn't Bush stop 9/11? With the NSA of more than 38,000 employees and a budget of billions, Bush couldn't intercept messages and stop a terrorist attack involving 20 terrorists and 4 airliners? Particularly since he had been warned numerous times about OBL/AQ? What the Hell was he doing? He was spying on millions of Americans, yet he couldn't zero in on this massive plot to attack the US, even though he had a "heads up" about who he should be spying on?

This information plus what he did (or didn't do) when told by Andy Card about the attacks, his order to fly all of OBL's relatives out of the US when all other commercial craft was grounded, his refusal to hold Saudi Arabia responsible even though 75% of the attackers were from SA, his desire to invade Iraq, the failure to capture OBL at Torra Borra, etc. only confirms for me that Bush is up to his ears in crimes against the American people and the world's people so terrible that treason looks relatively mild in comparison.

He's beyond impeachment: he needs to be sent to The Hague to stand trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity after standing trial here in America for treason.

[reprehensor]

8. Hear, hear.

That video may have been held back to fuel "outrageous conspiracy theories"...

That's one theory.

[bullimiami]

4. it will be interesting to see how this video correlates with existing

video and photos.

i just dont see how it can make sense.

A) the hole in the pentagon was too small
B) the wreckage should have been visible. where did it all go?

i am fully expecting some creation of the pentagon video department. but we will see.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. I would agree.

It is just too damn easy to edit video these days. In light of the 5 year delay in the release of their direct video evidence, and considering the ethics of these swine, it is no intellectual stretch to be suspicious in extremis.

Especially about something this big and so full of implications.

[frankly_fedup2]

15. What got me about the plane in the Pentagon was the fact that

this plane was supposedly going 500%+ mph. Witnesses claimed it flew over and then started a 360 degree turn. This amateur pilot did the turn so perfect, that when he flew the plane into the Pentagon, he was perfectly parallel horizontally. The plane had flown dead over trees (no damage), light posts (no damage) and then horizontally crashes into the Pentagon not even using any landing gear.

Perfect. Too perfect.

[jpak]

19. Or a US-trained Saudi military pilot

n/t

[WinkyDink]

151. Suicidal? Yikes!

Maybe remote-control, no pilot.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

21. A decending 360 turn, down 7000 ft, losing your target in the windscreen

and then...Bullseye! really, really, hard to believe (and I tried it on the flight sim, missed the whole building the first few times, ripped the wings off a few times, I did hit the edge of the building, one time, and I have 200 more hours (in a Cessna) than Hanjour had.

Lets us see the tape, please.

[Emillereid]

114. A couple of commercial pilots I know told me that they don't believe

they could have made the maneuvers Flight 77 was supposed to have made. How sure are we that the plane really did make those wild turns?

[Hoping4Change]

147. If I recall correctly there are transcripts of flight controllers

watching flight 77 on radar and expressing the incredulity.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

16. Those wings should have burned for hours on the lawn

where did they go?

More physical evidence...let's see it, please.

[paparush]

22. Where did the ENGINES go? Where did the LANDING GEAR go?

Where did the fucking PEOPLE go?

Plane crashes leave DEBRIS!! Lots and lots of DEBRIS!!

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

152. Aren't these rather new, as in, newly-offered for viewing?

I had never seen these before.

[Zynx]

30. Wings are fragile. They blew apart.

Plane is of lightweight construction outside of the engines. The Pentagon is of very heavy construction.

[tridim]

57. So everything just vaporized huh..

If so, why did the guy on CNN just say he saw and photographed the huge pieces of the plane including the intact tail section?

[Zynx]

61. Intact tail section violates laws of physics significantly.

Burden of proof is on him, i.e. produce photographs.

Extraordinary claims - plane tail decelerates instantaniously and more or less intact, at the same time the front of the plane decelerates - require extraordinary proof.

[bullimiami]

155. and those pictures vaporized like the wings and engines?

i sure never saw anything like that.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

59. OK, how about those 2 engines, show me the holes they made in the building

Did they just disappear too?

[ShortnFiery]

5. They are trying to DISTRACT us Chattering Classes from something

important. We should ask, "What should we really be paying attention to?" Could it be data mining? At least long enough to distract us while they make those pesky sources STFU whatever means necessary. :P :(

[nolabels]

145. Eggzacally, they seem far more stupid than we give them credit for

No need for a litany of examples. If they have been a DU for any amount of time and still don't get it they either freeper, paid disrupter's or just plain brain dead.

On edit btw, sort of like here is your sign, here is your forum: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

[davepc]

6. The "Pentagon faked the footage" theories will be out at 1:02 PM

[truebrit71]

10. Well it's only taken them 5 years to perfect the CGI....

;-)

[Caution]

17. It didn't even take that long. The claim has already been made in this

thread.

[dchill]

65. What if they DID fake it?

Where are the security cam videos from the hotels, banks etc. that also had footage which was confiscated? Are you so sure there's no conspiracy? Elucidate, please!

[Chrisduhfur]

105. You know... I'm not a big conspiracy nut but...

I'm not really into the whole conspiracy thing. I usually do not buy most the crap people put out there. However, there are a lot of things about 9/11 that make you wonder. I don't buy most the beliefs about Bush and his buddies being the ones behind it all. If there was a conspiracy I tend to find it more believable that it was done by a foreign government, perhaps Israel... But then again I don't know and I wouldn't ever say that it was for sure a conspiracy or that it wasn't.... Too hard to say for sure... kind of like the existence of some sort of God.

[LeighAnn]

112. Doesn't it bother you that Bush Sr was meeting with Bin Laden on 9-11?

Bin Laden's brother, that is. At the Ritz Carlton in DC


http://web.archive.org/web/20030607113821/http://redherring.com/vc/2002/0111/947.html

What an incredible coincidence!

That the Bushes and the Bin Ladens were both poised to make billions from US military action? Without September 11, how could Bush have been able to start this war?

This is just the beginning!

[bullimiami]

156. Isnt it the oddest thing that Bush and Co werent mad enough

or curious enough to investigate everything. Instead they blocked investigations into any aspect of it.

MI fucking HOP my friends.

Wrong reaction entirely.

[woo me with science]

11. LOL

Actual video is supposed to satisfy the tinfoil hat people? Methinks they know not their audience.

[HuffleClaw]

12. their excuse to NOT release it was soooooo pathetic

and they've had a LOOOONG time to fiddle with the evidence.

[november3rd]

13. Who thinks it's real?

Is anyone taking bets on how long it will take bloggers and video analysts to debunk this video as a doctored fraud?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

14. Exactly three seconds.

Because it's really easy to debunk things when you don't actually feel bound by reason, facts, or evidence.

[Psephos]

18. Ain't that the truth....

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of what he was never reasoned into.
-Jonathan Swift

[paparush]

23. Their servers must be getting HAMMERED (or NSA'd)

Can't hit the site at all....

[soup]

31. me neither.

The connection has timed out


The server at www.judicialwatch.org is taking too long to respond.


* The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few
moments.

* If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network
connection.

* If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure
that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.

Try Again

[goforit]

25. Tell me folks, Can the video be doctored to superimpose a plane on

the film making it look like plane hit the pentagon?

[Duer 157099]

26. Is that a serious question?

I can't tell

[paparush]

27. Sure...

That 5 frame job they released back in 2002(?) was totally picked apart by lots of netizens...

[Radio_Guy]

32. It can and it has

Rest assured it has been doctored.

[LeighAnn]

104. Ever been to a movie?

I saw Armageddon, there were meteors or something crashing into the World Trade Center. It looked totally real. Yep, it's called "special effects". They do it all the time.

[Chrisduhfur]

107. wait.. you lie... right?

I thought they really did destroy the earth... so silly hollywood people had me fooled.

[LeighAnn]

111. That's the movie where Bruce Willis volunteered

and the Defense department actually took him. In reality, he keeps trying to go over and "kill Arabs" but the DOD keeps telling him he's too old.

[Lights_Out]

28. Here's what will happen

The video will be hailed "inconclusive" by whatever government agency views it; the media won't muckrake and call us unpatriotic for criticizing. How typical.

[underpants]

33. 9/11 Pentagon video goes public for first time

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/16/pentagon.video/index.html

Watchdog group says release will end 'conspiracy theories'

Tuesday, May 16, 2006; Posted: 1:33 p.m. EDT (17:33 GMT)

A security camera outside the Pentagon captured this image on September 11, 2001.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Video showing a plane crashing into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, will be released publicly for the first time on Tuesday, a judicial watchdog said.

The Department of Defense will hand over tapes showing American Airlines Flight 77 striking its headquarters outside Washington to Judicial Watch, a public interest group that requested the video, the group said.

The video will be available on the group's Web site after it receives the tape at 1 p.m., according to a news release from Judicial Watch.


"Finally, we hope that this video will put to rest the conspiracy theories involving American Airlines Flight 77. As always, our prayers remain with all those who suffered as a result of those murderous attacks."

Judicial Watch is "a conservative, non-partisan educational foundation, promotes transparency, accountability and integrity in government, politics and the law," according to its Web site.

[doc mercer]

34. 9-11 tape

wow ...only took 4 1/2 yrs to release the tape???

I guess next we will find the plane in PA???

I call hogwash this tape is not doctored

[SpiralHawk]

35. Bush & cronies couldn't even muster a pea shooter to defend the Pentagon

when they had over an hours notice.

This is what happens when you let an AWOL preppy cheerleader -- and Five Deferments Cheney -- steal elections and then pretend to be "commander in chief"



Caption: After being told for the 2nd time that America was under attack on 9/11 commander AWOL wastes a 1/2 hour or more reading "My Pet Goat" and looking like he just shit his elite republicon silk Tighty Whiteys

[ShortnFiery]

36. Warning Will Robinson (The American People)!

Distraction! ... Warning! ... Lookie here, not there! ... Warning!:P

[sarcasmo]

37. I saw no plane n that video. How can that "put to rest the conspiracy

theories. Smoke and fire, if they would have shown a plane crashing into the building now that would have put to rest the conspiracy. Kick and Nom

[Mind_your_head]

44. Where can one see the video?

JudicialWatch.org site is down

[tridim]

46. I think the one on Faux is the new one..

It's just the old security cam video we've all seen, but it runs longer. There is no plane visible in the video, just a blur on the first frame of what they say is the nose of a jetliner about 2 feet off the ground. Remember the Pentagon lawn was completely undisturbed.

[SaveElmer]

97. The plane is clearly there...

It hits the ground to the right one frame before it slams into the building...

[LeighAnn]

110. CLEARLY???

I've watched both videos from the DOD site in full-screen mode

mms://wm.world.mii-streaming.net/media/defense/flight77/fl77-1_11094135.WMV
and
mms://wm.world.mii-streaming.net/media/defense/flight77/fl77-2_11094237.WMV

and I don't see a plane, clearly or otherwise. Where's this commercial airliner I'm supposed to be able to "clearly" see?

[SaveElmer]

117. Then you are not looking closely enough...

It was obvious from the first time I saw the video...it goes by in one frame, perhaps I am looking at a slowed down version, but the plane is there...no doubt!

[LeighAnn]

119. You mean that missile?

With the wildest stretch of my imagination can I see, maybe, a cessna there. Looks more like a missile to me. Certainly not a 747 or any other large, commercial airliner.

You seem pretty fired up about this! Passionate, it seems. What gives?

[SaveElmer]

121. What gives?

I trust the evidence of my own eyes...and do you seriously think the Pentagon would release an image of a missile hitting the Pentagon, if that is precisely what they were trying to hide?

Terrorist hijacked a commercial airliner, it crashed into the pentagon...it happened.

[L A Woman]

100. In the video I just watched, there is a freeze frame

and it sure likes a plane, but the video is just a still surveillance camera. But logic and reason will tell you the plane is there.

[unda cova brutha]

144. you saw no plane because there was no plane

9/11 is a fantasy dreamed up and carryed out by the bushistas so that they would have an excuse to invade iraq for oil.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

38. wow, i only have MORE questions after that video. and WHAT PLANE?!?!

:eyes:

[tridim]

40. There is no plane in that video

Just more smoke... And mirrors apparently.

Is that really it?

[sabbat hunter]

42. the video

on the CNN site is the old video not the new one that judicial watch is going to release.


although even if the new video shows a plane the CTers will say they were doctored anyhow.

[Karenca]

39. I saw NO plane in that video

I've watched it twice already.

All the video shows is a large orange fireball.

So, where the hell is the plane????

[Dhalgren]

41. Will Judicial Watch post the video on their site or is there a plan

as to where it will be shown? I doubt that this will be "proof" that the official theory is "true", but if it is faked, it will go a long way to disprove the current theory...

[LeftNYC]

43. I like this

"conservative, non-partisan"...whats that mean?

[TroglodyteScholar]

71. Means what it says...

If you think there's no such thing as a conservative Democrat, come spend a few days in Georgia...

[Mandate My Ass]

45. so there's video of an incoming plane and nothing was done

to prevent it from crashing even after the US gov't knew we were under attack? IIRC, the Pentagon plane was the last to crash.

In addition to cameras, there are also missiles mounted on the periphery of the Pentagon. So, evidently nobody was watching the store in the building that houses our nation's defense department that day, I guess. :eyes:

Yeah, this'll quell the :tinfoilhat:

[Zynx]

48. Um, there are no missiles mounted on the Pentagon.

:eyes:

SAM's big enough to shoot down large or high-flying aircraft are themselves quite large. Stingers, etc, are completely worthless for this.

There are no missile launchers on the exterior of the Pentagon, period. There are no radars and no launch cells.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

86. i thought David Griffin (sp) disputes that.

he said the pent. had a multi billion air defense system in his speech.

[NoSheep]

51. I can't access Judicial Watch's site. Where did you view the

video?

[tiptoe]

138. "nothing was done"...by order of VP, one or two eyewitnesses might proffer

see: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1125048&mesg_id=1126773

[Atmashine]

47. FEAR

It's what's for dinner.

[JuniperLea]

49. Zee plane, Boss! Zee plane!

Where's that confounded plane??

[benburch]

50. Good, because the conspiracy theories in this case a insane.

We even have a DUer who SAW THE FREAKING PLANE.

[sarcasmo]

52. Ben, did you watch that video? It shows no plane.

[uppityperson]

54. I don't have tv access, is the plane video online? thanks.

[Ragin_mad]

55. The video that is linked on CNN's website

is an old previously released tape. It's been around for a few years now. It is not a true video, it is clips of still cameras run in sequence and from a side angle, not the direction the plane came from.

[jseankil]

56. That's not the new video. /nm

nm

[orleans]

78. i saw a long white something

but someone has to really enlarge this footage, zoom in, and run it frame by frame.

could've been a MISSILE!

[sarcasmo]

84. That's my thought when I saw it. Didn't appear big enough to be a Plane.

No plane parts scattered in that video.

[SaveElmer]

93. Yes it does...

It hits the ground short of the Pentagon..it is pretty clearly there...look again

[matt819]

101. If it hit the ground. . .

explain why, in most of the still photos I've seen of the site, there are no marks on the ground.

[SaveElmer]

102. There were many published at the time...

Showing the ground disruption. Also, it did not hit the ground full force. It would have began a rapid distinegration had it done so.

[tridim]

53. Which DU'er saw the plane?

Agent Mike?

[benburch]

82. Right here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=942990&mesg_id=943241

[bbernardini]

58. How is it all explained away, then? nt

[underpants]

60. I've never bought into LIHOP or MIHOP but I find this VERY INTERESTING

First- I do believe that 9/11 was the result of a small group of fanatics, actually two. The ones supposedly on our side were so fanatical that they were completely negligent and incompetent

Second-Michael Moore has a good point about how a relatively few flying lessons is not enough to prepare someone to fly a 50 foot high plane going 500 miles an hour (or whatever it is) into a 4 story tall building. There had to be a pro involved.

Lastly-the timing of this and this story itself is going to make a few people revisit what happened that day and how (with W's numbers in the crapper) how it was spun to them then and how it still is...basically how W takes credit for it (read that twice). Also those who have doubts or gets some swirling in their head from this video will realize that they aren't the only ones and that it is okay to doubt the spin they have been fed. I liken it to Howard Dean being the first to stand up nationally and say YES it is okay to question the pResident....many people started to do so publicly in short order.

[dchill]

66. Uh - huh.

"conspiracy theories in this case a insane"

Way to go. Ad hominem. Insane. 100% great, incisive contribution.

Where's the effin' plane?

[Karenca]

67. My attorney was there.

Though not a DUer, I trust his judgement completely (or he wouldn't be my attorney).
The first thing he said to me once we were able to get in touch (I live in lower Manhattan--I had no phone service for a while after 9/11) was ''Karen, I can swear there was no plane!"

He was actually quite lucky to be in DC on 9/11 -- his office was in the WTC.

[Karenca]

69. 'Certainly doesn't look like a plane" ,,,Pete Williams MSNBC right now

or whatever his name is.

[silvermachine]

134. Sorry...

....he is either delusional or is stirring it up then.

[Karenca]

140. Sorry too

Because
He is neither delusional nor stirring anything up.

It was a missile ..
Noone saw a large plane fly into the pentagon except for one DUER -- ONE .

Strange.

[Name removed]

143. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mikelgb]

68. who is the DUer? what post?

very interested in this

[benburch]

81. Right here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=942990&mesg_id=943241

[L A Woman]

87. Yup, I agree....

I actually get red in the face (from embarrassment more than anger) when I read these absurd and unfounded theories coming from Democrats. I thought we were the more intelligent party.

All evidence points to the event occurring exactly as reported. No little green men were injured or killed aboard said flight.

[WinkyDink]

153. "All evidence" would be what, exactly? Barbara Olson's fictional

call to Ted?
"Witnesses" just walking around the Pentagon grounds, but never once allowed to speak to the press, i.e., the public? Did they testify to Congress, even?
The wing-span's being too large for the resultant hole?
The complete absence of debris (metal, human, clothing, etc.)outside the point of impact, i.e., an OUTSIDE wall?

When Pan Am 103 exploded over and crashed onto Lockerbie, the debris was wide-spread and multifarious in kind. The cockpit, however, remained intact even upon impact.

Surely the Pentagon "crash" was not more severe in nature.

[SaveElmer]

92. I have a long time friend...

Who saw the plane crash into the Pentagon...there are over 60 published eyewitness accounts of the crash, and contrary to what you hear, there are photographs of debris from the plane.

[coalition_unwilling]

103. Insane? Isn't the official 9/11 narrative a "conspiracy theory" also?

Americans are given a choice between which conspiracy theory they wish to believe, the official 9/11 "al quaida, osama bin laden" conspiracy narrative or the alternative "LIHOP, MIHOP" conspiracy narrative.

[LeighAnn]

116. Am I in the right place?

This is Twilight Zone-like.
:wtf:

[Karmakaze]

126. No we don't

He said someone said "that plane is too low" and as they ran to the window it exploded. He didnt see the plane, he saw the explosion.

[Kenergy]

90. I didn't see a plane...??? n/t

[Ezlivin]

63. It damn well better MATCH EXACTLY the original "footage" released

If the two sets of video do not match they'd better have a good explanation.

That would mean that one of the two releases was bogus.

[Ezlivin]

64. How in the HELL would that footage hurt/help the Moussaoui investigation?

Supposedly the DoD held onto the tape because it was "part of an ongoing investigation involving Zacarias Moussaoui".

The footage is useless for investigators. If they wanted to use it to prove that an aircraft hit the Pentagon, they would have failed.

Now that Zacarias Moussaoui's trial is over they need to release ALL of the confiscated video.

[drfresh]

70. Some links to the new video (maybe)

The DOD has a link up at http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/foi/ , middle of the page. I tried streaming it (RealPlayer) but it was wayyy slow.

Also its supposedly up on Judicial Watch at http://www.judicialwatch.org/5772.shtml , but I can't even get a reply from their server.

[atomic-fly]

72. thanks....I can't load it yet either.

will try again later. Did they play it on the news?

[Radioactive]

73. I'm sure I saw this video years ago????

I remember seeing a video of the plane going into the pentagon years ago? maybe I just dreamed it?

[Karenca]

75. i saw this years ago too.........nt

[Vidar]

74. Of course this will be the "director's cut" --more artistic than the

original.

[LibertyLover]

76. It's difficult to tell from the film what hit -

I have to say that after viewing the film, it's darn difficult to tell what hit the building. All you can see is a silvery streak and then a fireball. I hope that at some point someone will be able to take the frames and enlarge the images. I realize that at the speed the plane was alleged to have been going, a streak is about all you'd get, so it would be interesting to see if going frame by frame more detail. While not a MIHOP person, I do subscribe to LIHOP, but still, that film truly doesn't answer any questions that I can see.

[savemefromdumbya]

77. if it is anything like the Osama video?

there will be a inflatable balloon flying into the Pent.

[Eurobabe]

79. Looks like a missle to me

that's no freaking PLANE!

[Zynx]

80. You need to watch less movies. Missles don't blow up like that.

At least outside of Hollywood, where they generally use gas balls for C-4 and other high explosives.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Karmakaze]

128. Huge?

Are you talking about this hole:

[onehandle]

85. It was an AIRLINER. There were WITNESSES. This video is DISINFORMATION.

More useless grainy footage to get us to don our tinfoil suits.

They don't want us to talk about the FACT that that BUSH FAILED TO PROTECT US.

They want us to talk about CONSPIRACIES.


You are falling for Rove's plan - hook, line, and sinker - if you talk about anything except BUSH FAILING TO PROTECT US.


Witnesses:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77w.htm

[silvermachine]

88. Thank you

N/T

[SheepyMcSheepster]

106. good point

I never really thought about it like that.

[SharonRB]

89. Uh oh -- I can't get on Judicial Watch's site

I keep getting that "Page cannot be found" error message.

[plasticsundance]

91. How come the lawn of the Pentagon

doesn't look like it was touched by anything? :shrug:

[silvermachine]

95. Not strictly true...

...there are photos taken by the Arlington County Fire Dept that show some damage. These are the best photos of the site that I have seen. Why they haven't been circulated I don't know. I saw them as they were briefly housed in the Arlington Library at the Virginia Room there. I believe they are now in county archives but am not sure.

[Karmakaze]

127. Did they look anything like this:

Or this:



Or this:



I dunno about anyone else, but I dont see any damage to the lawn.

[silvermachine]

133. There are much better photos than those ones...

...and you just answered your own question to your post about the size of the hole if you look at the second photograph. That hole doesn't look so big in that photo because it fails to adequately depict the size of the building. Drive or walk by it and you see how large the building is so the hole isn't as "small" as it seems. And what do some people think the Pentagon is made out of anyway? Eggshells? I don't see people making a big fuss out of the fact that the planes that hit the twin towers essentially disintegrated.
The Arlington Fire Dept photos are much much better than the ones shown. To my knowledge they have not been made available to the media, why I don't know. They are photos right there on the ground, closeups, not from afar or from across the beltway.
Cricket sounds regarding the eyewitness accounts too...

[robbibaba]

94. Regarding conspiracy theories....

either you believe the planes crashed accidentally or you believe a conspiracy theory. The issue is which one makes the most sense/answers the most questions. Our government's conspiracy theory (that would be the Osama bin Laden one) is so full of holes that it's a marvel anyone still takes it seriously.

[SaveElmer]

96. The planes did not crash accidentally under either scenario...

Terrorists crashed them on purpose. The question is whether Bush and his cabal knew about it ahead of time...I believe they did not. I do think they are culpable in their general neglect of preparing and preventing for such attacks.

[L A Woman]

98. Amen, Elmer

and I do believe that the RW loves to perpetuate these theories because it makes liberals look like nuts. It's an old Karl Rove strategy that goes back years....throw out the bone, give the dumb Democrats time to run with it and then bring out the evidence that it couldn't be true.

And Democrats fall for it every fucking time. It's unbearable.

It was a plane, folks. And it slammed into its intended target. There are loads of witnesses. There are hundreds of people who put their relatives on the plane. If it didn't crash into the Pentagon, where is it? The government accidentally shot it down, then incinerated the evidence without anyone knowing? And then thought, "We'd better blow up part of the Pentagon to cover up our accident!"

Oh my God, people.

[Chrisduhfur]

108. accidentally?

Never anything like that. I haven't jumped on the "it was an inside job" bandwagon yet, but I don't really understand why tapes from various other locations have not been released. Supposedly there was video from a bank and hotel that would have captured the hit but they were confiscated following the attack. Now assuming this is true I do not understand why these tapes have no been released. Can you or anyone else think of any good reasons?

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SharonRB]

113. Too fuzzy to see anything

I watched the video earlier today and it sure didn't show me anything. I watched Loose Change about a month or six weeks ago and it scared the shit out of me. Started turning me from LIHOP to MIHOP. This video doesn't change anything -- I can't see the plane, just flames and smoke.

[MetaTrope]

115. What we need is the video of Cheney refusing to launch interceptors...

[Pastiche423]

118. I have watched the video

from:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/flight77.shtml

six times and still see no plane.

It tickles me that some of the people that have just started examining 9/11 are still gulping down the bs, hook, line and sinker. Hope they don't have to burp anytime soon. That hook coming back up is gonna hurt BIG TIME.

Keep your ears and eyes open. This is being used as a deflection of something big coming.

[biggles1]

123. I agree. You see only the front section of the fuselage -

the video then 'jumps' to the next frame which is the explosion. That fuselage could have belonged to ANY thing!

[steely]

120. I've seen better quality pics from the Old Faithful Geyser cam

WTF - this is the pentagon - they don't have better bandwidth capability? for the pentagon?
I hate being talked down to by these assholes.

[Gin]

122. My thought is this.......to hit the Pentagon right where the new

construction was just completed...no employees there yet...was some precisiion flying.....how about remote control of the planes?

Drones are remotely controlled..why not major airlines?

Tin foil hat is firmly in place!

[doc03]

124. I thought those conspiracy people were all nuts, now I see the

evidence CNN says will lay all the conspiracy theories to rest. Where is the f---ing plane? If anything this makes me believe there was no plane. The Pentagon has to be the most secure building on earth and this is the only evidence, two shots one showing a little white blotch on the edge? I lived in Arlington VA 35 years ago and even then there would have been hundreds of eye witnesses on the highway at that time, where are they? As I remember the Pentagon was surrounded by a huge lawn and I can't believe there weren't videos of every square inch of the area.

[lovuian]

125. There was no plane it was a missile

The government has a missile defense system to protect Washington

if a plane was coming why didn't it deploy

and there are eye witnesses at the top floor of the Hilton...

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sofa king]

132. The fake plane is a distraction from the real conspiracy.

That section of the Pentagon very much was occupied, by the DOD's counterterrorism unit which had just moved in to that section. Most of them died, including the general in charge, and somehow that revelation has never been made public.

Taken in combination with the destruction of the WTC-7 building, which held offices of the CIA, the Secret Service, INS, the DOD, and the SEC, and I think you have an excellent insight into who helped perpetrate the attacks.

The construction of the final report on the collapse of WTC-7, which was across the street from the two buildings which were hit, has taken longer than it took to build a new 52 story building on the site. The 9/11 Commission never mentioned it.

Unfortunately, you can't take my word for it about the Pentagon crash--I heard it around in bars and I've never had the balls to repeat the rumor in print because I figured it could turn out to be a rough ride for me. But there should be plenty of other people in this town who should know it for a fact. I think it's time that the press started looking into it.

Edit: when I say something as important as this, I shouldn't hint as to what I think it means. So here it is: I think that elements within the federal government planned and facilitated the attacks of September 11. I think that the Israelis discovered the plot and tipped off the Bush Administration to it. I think that the Bush Administration, instead of doing anything about it, got out of Osama bin Laden's way by stopping the plot to find him in Afghanistan with Predator drones. I think they intentionally created an alibi of confusion by scheduling NORAD hijacking excercises on the day of the attacks. I think they concealed the crime by hamstringing the counterterrorist organizations which had the best chance of uncovering it, by collapsing the WTC-7 building and by murdering the counterterrorists in the rebuilt section of the Pentagon, conveniently destroying all paper records. I think the hijackers of the plane were given the information on the Pentagon by people friendly to the Bush Administration, perhaps Jack Abramoff, who apparently entertained some of the future hijackers on his casino boat on September 5, 2001.

I would also like to point out that if the Bush Administration had not gone to such great and unusual lengths to cover up and conceal every single one of those allegations above, I would not be able to make such a specific accusation. Because the federal government has the information and is intentionally keeping it from the public, the burden of proof is on them to disprove my allegations. This is not the same thing as asking someone to prove a negative.

[Sterling]

136. Seems reasonable to me

Better than the Govs CT at least.

[QuettaKid]

137. I just LOVE how whenever one brings up MIHOP or LIHOP

as in 911 was an INSIDE JOB....the very first thing, the very first thing a skeptic will bring up is " No way our government did that...it would take a HUGE number of people to pull something like that off"....and yet they are very willing to believe that it only took 19 arabs. Go figure.

[Julius Civitatus]

142. Is that all? -- They already released these pictures last year!

OK, what's the hoopla with this "newly released" video?

Am I dreaming all this, or did they already released these pictures a year ago?
I have already seen this sequence of still-shots by the security camera at the Pentagon.

What's all the hoopla about this "new release"?

Why is the entire media selling this as a new "disclosure"? Is the same sequence of stills!!!

What the heck?

:wtf:

PS: Not to fuel any conspiracy, which I don't like, but you still can't tell if that's a plane, a bus, or a banana. Sorry, but these images clear nothing, really.

[WinkyDink]

150. What they CANNOT alter is what escaped their clutches: The photo

of The Hole That Wouldn't Match.

[Emillereid]

154. I just watched all the videos at Judicial Watch -- and I am not impressed!

These videos don't prove that an airliner hit the pentagon -- all one can discern is a small white nose of some kind of plane. What kind of plane was Flight 77 -- did it have a white nose? The airplane nose in the video looked kinda small to me.