Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
|
Mon May-15-06 11:11 AM
Original message |
| NSA to ABC-Reporter's Calls Reveal Patterns: "We Know Who You're Calling" |
 |
Chilling. Maybe ABC might do well to reconsider running so many Bush-weighted push polls. Federal Source to ABC News: We Know Who You're CallingMay 15, 2006 9:33 AM Brian Ross and Richard Esposito Report: A senior federal law enforcement official tells us the government is tracking the phone numbers we call in an effort to root out confidential sources. "It's time for you to get some new cell phones, quick," the source told us in an in-person conversation. We do not know how the government determined who we are calling, or whether our phone records were provided to the government as part of the recently-disclosed NSA collection of domestic phone calls. Other sources have told us that phone calls and contacts by reporters for ABC News, along with the New York Times and the Washington Post, are being examined as part of a widespread CIA leak investigation. One former official was asked to sign a document stating he was not a confidential source for New York Times reporter James Risen. Our reports on the CIA's secret prisons in Romania and Poland were known to have upset CIA officials. People questioned by the FBI about leaks of intelligence information say the CIA was also disturbed by ABC News reports that revealed the use of CIA predator missiles inside Pakistan. Under Bush Administration guidelines, it is not considered illegal for the government to keep track of numbers dialed by phone customers. The official who warned ABC News said there was no indication our phones were being tapped so the content of the conversation could be recorded. A pattern of phone calls from a reporter, however, could provide valuable clues for leak investigators.
|

ABC should be OK with this right? |
LeftNYC |
May-15-06 11:14 AM |
#1 |
 
Exactly, the NSA used this to spy on JOURNALISTIC SOURCES... |
Julius Civitatus |
May-15-06 11:39 AM |
#25 |
  
Operation FirstFruits at NSA began pre-9/11 |
EVDebs |
May-15-06 02:02 PM |
#104 |
 
excellent point |
TexasLawyer |
May-15-06 11:52 AM |
#43 |
  
It's done offshore with a Bahamas-based company along with |
EVDebs |
May-15-06 02:04 PM |
#105 |
 
If the MSM were worth a shit they would be all over this report. |
cantstandbush |
May-15-06 07:48 PM |
#144 |

What, did someone on the inside only find this out from the media? |
Kagemusha |
May-15-06 11:14 AM |
#2 |

Oh.my.god. |
wicket |
May-15-06 11:15 AM |
#3 |

Wow that's scary |
Marie26 |
May-15-06 11:16 AM |
#4 |
 
That's it: someone should tell all patriotic leakers to take the time |
Amonester |
May-16-06 02:37 AM |
#152 |

whoa shit - does this mean what I think it means - move over Orwell |
stop the bleeding |
May-15-06 11:17 AM |
#5 |
 
Fourth Estate |
The Wizard |
May-15-06 05:23 PM |
#122 |

the MSM has chosen their own fate by being complicit in bushco's evil. |
truthisfreedom |
May-15-06 11:18 AM |
#6 |
 
maybe they prefer to transcribe what the spokesman say |
Supersedeas |
May-15-06 06:05 PM |
#129 |

This was one of the first things I thought of last week |
Protagoras |
May-15-06 11:18 AM |
#7 |
 
Yep, create files on people, then, if they give you trouble, pull it up |
havocmom |
May-15-06 12:12 PM |
#62 |

And now you know... |
Mithras61 |
May-15-06 11:20 AM |
#8 |

This isn't to detect patterns as the admin claimed |
Rose Siding |
May-15-06 11:22 AM |
#9 |

Beyond chilling |
TheLeftyMom |
May-15-06 11:23 AM |
#10 |

Fascist Totalitarian Big Brother is watching |
UpInArms |
May-15-06 11:23 AM |
#11 |
 
That slide is a mess. n/t |
Beth in VT |
May-15-06 12:49 PM |
#78 |

two more organizations have been informed as well |
lala_rawraw |
May-15-06 11:27 AM |
#12 |
 
Why does anyone use their phones or e-mail for confidential |
leveymg |
May-15-06 11:31 AM |
#19 |
  
right... |
lala_rawraw |
May-15-06 11:35 AM |
#23 |
   
Right. I've got my one-time pads ready. |
leveymg |
May-15-06 11:39 AM |
#28 |
  
Good call. You must be an encryption geek like me. |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 12:04 PM |
#55 |
   
But, I'm just an amateur. |
leveymg |
May-15-06 12:17 PM |
#64 |
  
How to make a one-time pad. |
sofa king |
May-15-06 05:56 PM |
#128 |
  
What's your opinion of comercial number randomizers? |
leveymg |
May-16-06 07:00 AM |
#157 |
  
pigeon carriers? |
rodeodance |
May-16-06 07:15 AM |
#159 |
 
tapped or call tracked? |
darkstar |
May-15-06 11:34 AM |
#21 |
  
I was told tapped... |
lala_rawraw |
May-15-06 11:39 AM |
#27 |
 
this is insane |
stop the bleeding |
May-15-06 11:50 AM |
#37 |
 
Mind blowing indeed. |
darkstar |
May-15-06 11:50 AM |
#38 |
 
Press ahead, LaLa...you were early to the party... |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 11:59 AM |
#48 |
  
don't know, i assume when they have one for alt press |
lala_rawraw |
May-15-06 12:03 PM |
#53 |
 
Tapping is heinous and high crimes. Even tracking call records is chilling |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 12:02 PM |
#51 |
 
Larisa, the next question is: |
Tandalayo_Scheisskopf |
May-15-06 12:23 PM |
#70 |
 
Chilling the source pool = dissapearing n/t |
lala_rawraw |
May-15-06 12:31 PM |
#74 |
 
Or, just making those in the game more serious,and knocking |
leveymg |
May-15-06 12:47 PM |
#77 |
 
The MSM, some on the left, and all of the right |
lala_rawraw |
May-15-06 05:44 PM |
#126 |
 
But, La La, most of us at DU do care about you |
leveymg |
May-15-06 07:41 PM |
#143 |
 
Lala...are you the patriotic whistle-blower? |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 11:44 AM |
#31 |
 
Lala...thankyou...thankyou...thankyou |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 11:46 AM |
#34 |
  
sorry, i don't follow |
lala_rawraw |
May-15-06 11:50 AM |
#39 |
 
I'll say it AGAIN: Lala...are you the patriotic whistle-blower? |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 11:47 AM |
#36 |
  
I thought the third dupe was only to be used in dire emergencies |
leveymg |
May-15-06 11:50 AM |
#40 |
 
Third dupe? Sorry, if you mean 3rd dupe of story, check the timestamp. |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 11:56 AM |
#46 |
  
Don't worry. Your desk in the SF office will still be there. |
leveymg |
May-15-06 11:59 AM |
#49 |
 
Thanks. I do work in infosec...but when you have a DISA client... |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 12:57 PM |
#83 |
 
I'm not exactly John Steed or George Smiley. I don't even wannabe. |
leveymg |
May-15-06 04:04 PM |
#110 |
 
You must have rubbed up against a different crowd than I did. |
sofa king |
May-15-06 06:14 PM |
#131 |
 
Were you in the military at the time? |
leveymg |
May-15-06 08:37 PM |
#146 |
  
Not military, just a drunk too close to the Beltway. |
sofa king |
May-15-06 11:07 PM |
#149 |
 
There have been stranger approaches, |
leveymg |
May-16-06 06:55 AM |
#156 |
 
Nope, a few years before that. |
sofa king |
May-16-06 05:40 PM |
#177 |
 
Speaking of chewed:Remember the run-on soliloquy from "Good Will Hunting? |
Dunvegan |
May-16-06 05:34 AM |
#154 |
 
As we learned in the sequel, he took the job, but ended up |
leveymg |
May-16-06 09:00 AM |
#161 |
 
Geeze Mark I use to live in Richmond |
stop the bleeding |
May-15-06 11:56 AM |
#47 |
 
"The Farm" at Camp Peary is the |
leveymg |
May-15-06 12:03 PM |
#52 |
 
i cannot see graphics on DU via this browser |
lala_rawraw |
May-15-06 12:06 PM |
#56 |
 
I displayed a Mapquest that shows Camp Peary |
leveymg |
May-15-06 12:12 PM |
#60 |
 
Dunvegan posted a pic of people applauding, in case you were a |
bleever |
May-15-06 12:14 PM |
#63 |
  
It's black humor. |
leveymg |
May-15-06 12:21 PM |
#67 |
 
And even though we suspect it already, we'll still be really angry |
bleever |
May-15-06 12:29 PM |
#72 |
 
That would blow the lid off things. |
leveymg |
May-15-06 12:52 PM |
#80 |
 
It was an image of an audience clapping. Even though you aren't a whistle |
glitch |
May-15-06 05:44 PM |
#125 |
 
i want to be the decider |
lala_rawraw |
May-15-06 05:46 PM |
#127 |
 
Lala_rawraw, a related link. FirstFruits probably includes us at DU |
EVDebs |
May-15-06 01:52 PM |
#100 |

ABC/WaPo Poll: 66% of our editors would turn over info to NSA |
leveymg |
May-15-06 11:27 AM |
#13 |
 
Now THAT'S funny. In an Orwellian, funny whistling-in-the-gravyard funny. |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 11:30 AM |
#18 |
  
Almost forgot The Times |
leveymg |
May-15-06 11:46 AM |
#33 |
 
100% would submit to a Sigmoidoscopy too, but that doesn't make it |
EVDebs |
May-15-06 01:55 PM |
#101 |

leaking = bad, or leaking = good?!?! |
kahleefornia |
May-15-06 11:28 AM |
#14 |
 
"When the President does it, that means that it's not illegal." |
MallRat |
May-15-06 11:39 AM |
#24 |
 
Many of us view the press as a check on the government. |
MGKrebs |
May-15-06 11:47 AM |
#35 |
  
Of the checks and balances...the First Amendment names the Fourth Estate |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 12:03 PM |
#54 |
 
The Fourth Estate was put six feet under years ago. |
Roland99 |
May-15-06 06:59 PM |
#136 |
 
Leaking is a case-by-case judgement call. |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 12:09 PM |
#59 |
 
They were outing a covert CIA officer to get back at a political opponent |
tandot |
May-15-06 12:23 PM |
#68 |
  
They leaked Plame's identity and outed Brewster Jennings for FAR worse... |
Roland99 |
May-15-06 07:00 PM |
#137 |
 
I think we have a winner...very true, Roland |
Dunvegan |
May-16-06 05:35 AM |
#155 |
 
Leaking to harm covert agents for political reasons = bad because of |
Catrina |
May-15-06 04:30 PM |
#112 |

thank you |
kahleefornia |
May-16-06 10:39 AM |
#163 |

ABC NEWS: Federal Official: US Tracking ABC, NYT, Washing Post |
kpete |
May-15-06 11:30 AM |
#15 |
 
NSA to ABC-Reporter's Calls Reveal Patterns: "We Know Who You're Calling" |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 11:30 AM |
#16 |
 
Strange...nothing is said about tracking Faux News calls... |
AtLiberty |
May-15-06 11:30 AM |
#17 |
 
don't suppose this is happening to fix or the washington times do you? |
pepperbear |
May-15-06 11:35 AM |
#22 |
 
We shouldn't be surprised |
JerseygirlCT |
May-15-06 03:10 PM |
#107 |

November may be TOO LATE! |
Kablooie |
May-15-06 11:31 AM |
#20 |

So it's "Bush Administration Guidelines" that decide what's legal, |
Miss Chybil |
May-15-06 11:39 AM |
#26 |

Where does it say NSA? Thats a big leap. |
patcox2 |
May-15-06 11:41 AM |
#29 |
 
The point is these "investigations" are going on routinely without warrant |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 11:50 AM |
#41 |
  
It doesn't say that at all. |
patcox2 |
May-15-06 04:19 PM |
#111 |
 
Phone records are available with a warrant |
TexasLawyer |
May-15-06 12:23 PM |
#69 |

Phone records are available with just an administrative subpoena |
kanrok |
May-15-06 01:57 PM |
#103 |

But shouldn't that admin subpoena be for CRIMINAL, not POLITICAL, reasons? |
Roland99 |
May-15-06 07:02 PM |
#140 |

Yep. |
kanrok |
May-15-06 09:38 PM |
#148 |

Does this mean their also monitoring the phone calls of .. |
Sentinel Chicken |
May-15-06 11:43 AM |
#30 |
 
Probably, yeah. |
Marie26 |
May-15-06 11:51 AM |
#42 |
 
ooooh, good question |
TexasLawyer |
May-15-06 12:25 PM |
#71 |

Agree, TexasLawyer... |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 12:50 PM |
#79 |

Hey, if they'll ignore the law |
TexasLawyer |
May-15-06 06:35 PM |
#134 |

What? If they aren't doing anything wrong... |
FormerOstrich |
May-15-06 11:45 AM |
#32 |

Once the media get angry Bush may not last a minute |
savemefromdumbya |
May-15-06 11:53 AM |
#44 |
 
I've lost count of the number of times I've said that. (nt) |
FatDave |
May-15-06 05:43 PM |
#124 |

Christianne Amanpour (sp) |
PRETZEL |
May-15-06 11:56 AM |
#45 |
 
Yes, and so did Christopher Hitchens. This is SICKO - Illegal! n/t |
ShortnFiery |
May-15-06 12:06 PM |
#57 |

Hitchens was probably drunk and just wanted attention... |
PRETZEL |
May-15-06 12:33 PM |
#75 |
 
Yeah, but in a moment of clarity, Hitchens convinced me that there was |
ShortnFiery |
May-15-06 01:15 PM |
#89 |

Who the hell would even want to listen to that narcissistic a-hole? |
Roland99 |
May-15-06 07:01 PM |
#138 |

Parking lots, park benches, disguises, cloaks, daggers... nt |
coffeenap |
May-15-06 12:00 PM |
#50 |

All Reporters who are NOT from FOX News ... |
Trajan |
May-15-06 12:08 PM |
#58 |

Maybe they should have held the story until after the elections |
cally |
May-15-06 12:12 PM |
#61 |

This makes perfect sense! This is what they are using it for! |
Ian_rd |
May-15-06 12:17 PM |
#65 |

Rock'n Roll! |
michael_1166 |
May-15-06 12:21 PM |
#66 |

Is anyone really completely surprised by this? |
stubtoe |
May-15-06 12:30 PM |
#73 |
 
no, not really (and this, in itself is the scary part). |
rodeodance |
May-16-06 07:18 AM |
#160 |

This administration has a reputation |
flblu2 |
May-15-06 12:41 PM |
#76 |

And underneath the secret illegal activity, incompetence.. |
NastyDiaper |
May-15-06 12:55 PM |
#81 |

Time to get the "staffers" to start calling prominent Republicans... |
bvar22 |
May-15-06 12:57 PM |
#82 |

Click on the link and go to the end of the story! |
bluethruandthru |
May-15-06 12:59 PM |
#84 |
 
I have a feeling "all those people" are just one guy flamebaiting. |
Tunkamerica |
May-15-06 03:14 PM |
#108 |

Minor point |
MockSwede |
May-15-06 01:00 PM |
#85 |

Al Franken just reported this on air at approx 12:50 pm EDT |
seafan |
May-15-06 01:01 PM |
#86 |

What drives me nuts is that is may not tchnically be illegal!!! |
krispos42 |
May-15-06 01:05 PM |
#87 |
 
The winners of the class action suit should be the "winners"... |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 01:49 PM |
#98 |
  
Buy low, sell high |
krispos42 |
May-15-06 04:31 PM |
#113 |
 
Welcome to DU, krispos42! |
Roland99 |
May-15-06 07:04 PM |
#141 |

Why thank you |
krispos42 |
May-16-06 12:14 PM |
#164 |

Scarier are some of the comments after the article!! |
progressivebydesign |
May-15-06 01:15 PM |
#88 |
 
Dear ABC Comments Poster: Our NSA-supplied filtering software... |
Dunvegan |
May-15-06 01:20 PM |
#93 |
 
The Founding Fathers weep |
krispos42 |
May-15-06 01:35 PM |
#97 |

They are looking for leakers!!! |
lovuian |
May-15-06 01:16 PM |
#90 |

Look for MSM to ditch AT&T and turn on the NSA over this one! Ha! |
McCamy Taylor |
May-15-06 01:19 PM |
#91 |

Silly NSA! You cant keep a secret from reporters! |
McCamy Taylor |
May-15-06 01:20 PM |
#92 |

Review Cell Phone Usage in HBO's "The Wire" |
carincross |
May-15-06 01:21 PM |
#94 |
 
May not work. |
951-Riverside |
May-15-06 01:30 PM |
#95 |
 
Want to bet cash only cell phones get outlawed? |
Colonel Bat Guano |
May-15-06 01:34 PM |
#96 |

Bushco = TRAITORS trying to find out who's on to them!! |
WinkyDink |
May-15-06 01:50 PM |
#99 |

and CHECK OUT these responses posted: |
Danieljay |
May-15-06 01:56 PM |
#102 |
 
Just don't have a clue do they? |
leftyladyfrommo |
May-15-06 02:30 PM |
#106 |
 
those're all the same guy, i bet n/t |
Tunkamerica |
May-15-06 03:16 PM |
#109 |
  
sadness true sadness |
pezdespencer |
May-15-06 04:48 PM |
#116 |
 
For specifics on the NSA private contractor/GOP spy industry see: |
leveymg |
May-16-06 09:52 AM |
#162 |

kick |
BrklynLiberal |
May-15-06 04:39 PM |
#114 |

And this is America? |
DearAbby |
May-15-06 04:46 PM |
#115 |

Federal Source to ABC News: We Know Who You're Calling |
jonnyo |
May-15-06 04:53 PM |
#117 |
 
Gee, what a surprise. |
PSPS |
May-15-06 04:54 PM |
#118 |
 
Dare I say I posted this very theory when the story broke. |
xultar |
May-15-06 04:54 PM |
#119 |
 
That is the story. The sources for the news. Good. WH no longer has |
applegrove |
May-15-06 04:54 PM |
#120 |

And Pelosi *promises* no impeachment on her watch! Course, things |
Tom Joad |
May-15-06 05:02 PM |
#121 |
 
You surely don't consider what they say before impeachment meaningful? |
Mr_Spock |
May-15-06 06:25 PM |
#133 |

are you saying Pelosi is not being honest? |
Tom Joad |
May-15-06 06:45 PM |
#135 |

I believe almost nothing they say when it comes to "future action" |
Mr_Spock |
May-15-06 07:31 PM |
#142 |

So WTF does this have to do with "catching terrorists"??? |
Seabiscuit |
May-15-06 05:40 PM |
#123 |
 
It all depends on how you define 'terrorist' |
krispos42 |
May-16-06 12:51 PM |
#176 |

damn |
petersond |
May-15-06 06:14 PM |
#130 |

This is the most outrageous story I've heard in a long, long time |
Mr_Spock |
May-15-06 06:20 PM |
#132 |

Where's John "I'm a civil libertarian" Stossel on this? |
TOJ |
May-15-06 07:02 PM |
#139 |

This is disturbing on a very deep level... |
jasonc |
May-15-06 08:32 PM |
#145 |

*'s plan for the rapture in progress |
twaddler01 |
May-15-06 09:14 PM |
#147 |
 
"George = six letters, Walker = six letters, and BushJr..." |
Amonester |
May-16-06 03:24 AM |
#153 |

Rachel Maddow was on w/Tucker Carlson saying FBI Press Office confirms it. |
Roland99 |
May-15-06 11:36 PM |
#150 |

Remember what AG Gonzales said |
SimpleTrend |
May-16-06 01:27 AM |
#151 |
 
Watergate may not have happened had the reporters been monitored |
rodeodance |
May-16-06 07:10 AM |
#158 |

ABC Claims Government Traced Its Reporters' Calls |
crikkett |
May-16-06 12:17 PM |
#165 |

how will they ever know when the gov claims 'nat. sec' to all investigatio |
rodeodance |
May-16-06 12:17 PM |
#166 |

ABC has been the worst of the networks when it comes to |
acmavm |
May-16-06 12:17 PM |
#167 |
 
So are you saying |
crikkett |
May-16-06 12:17 PM |
#168 |

I think it's funny with more than a little poetic justice involved. |
acmavm |
May-16-06 12:17 PM |
#169 |

I keep forgetting... is the Bush cabal re-shaping America... |
Zenlitened |
May-16-06 12:17 PM |
#170 |

'claims'... 'blog posting...' |
HuffleClaw |
May-16-06 12:17 PM |
#171 |
 
I first heard this story on Democracy Now |
crikkett |
May-16-06 12:17 PM |
#174 |

i'd have been happier had the ny sun not |
HuffleClaw |
May-18-06 12:02 AM |
#178 |

Can we use The FOIA to get Bill O'Reilly's phone records? |
IanDB1 |
May-16-06 12:17 PM |
#172 |

Subpoenas? |
Marie26 |
May-16-06 12:17 PM |
#173 |

Adds a little piquant twist to Colbert's press club address |
kenny blankenship |
May-16-06 12:17 PM |
#175 |
LeftNYC
(1000+ posts)
|
Mon May-15-06 11:14 AM
Response to Original message |
| 1. ABC should be OK with this right? |
 |
Its in support of the war on terrrrrrrr. Isnt it? I mean thats what they hype in that debunked poll on their site. Americans are OK with it...So ABC should be. They dont want to not seem behind their commander-in-thief do they? Right ABC?
|
Julius Civitatus
(1000+ posts)
|
Mon May-15-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
| 25. Exactly, the NSA used this to spy on JOURNALISTIC SOURCES... |
 |
...but it's all for the war on Terra, right? ABC has been one of the most reliable supporters of BushCo and their minions. ABC shouldn't worry if they don't have anything to hide... right?
Bastards.
|
EVDebs
(1000+ posts)
|
Mon May-15-06 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
| 104. Operation FirstFruits at NSA began pre-9/11 |
 |
Investigate FirstFruits and the policy shift Bush instituted at NSA away from Saudi jihadist funding (see Greg Palast's article 'Khan Job').
Gotta run.
|
TexasLawyer
(1000+ posts)
|
Mon May-15-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
 |
How do you like it now, ABC?
And you KNOW the NSA is doing more than just keeping track of phone numbers!
|
EVDebs
(1000+ posts)
|
Mon May-15-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
| 105. It's done offshore with a Bahamas-based company along with |
 |
datamined info provided by ChoicePoint. The Global Information Group Ltd. story was investigated by Robert O'Harrow at Washpost but never seems to have made the connection to TIA.
|
cantstandbush
(1000+ posts)
|
Mon May-15-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
| 144. If the MSM were worth a shit they would be all over this report. |
 |
But they aren't worth a shit and they will never challenge the freedom of the press that is being thwarted by this renegade administration so I hope they throw a few of them in jail like Judy, they deserve it.
|
Kagemusha
(1000+ posts)
|
Mon May-15-06 11:14 AM
Response to Original message |
| 2. What, did someone on the inside only find this out from the media? |
 |
And then said, "Damnit, let's use this to find those goddamn CIA leakers!!" ?
Because this is only coming out just now as if they weren't using this tool on American reporters previously.
|
wicket
(1000+ posts)
|
Mon May-15-06 11:15 AM
Response to Original message |
 |
Wish I could say I'm surprised, but still - 
|
Marie26
(1000+ posts)
|
Mon May-15-06 11:16 AM
Response to Original message |
 |
The implications are just chilling. The Bush Ad. could use their secret phone records database to find out who told USA Today about the secret phone record database! All they'd have to do is track the phone calls of the reporter who wrote the story, cross-reference the numbers w/a reverse phone book database & have the names, addresses & locations of all her sources. It would be easy to check which sources worked for the NSA/CIA. What's the point of having confidential sources if the federal gov. can automatically know who that source is? How can anyone feel safe disclosing such info to the press if the gov. can instantly know who they are? This is bad, very bad.
|
Amonester
(1000+ posts)
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Tue May-16-06 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
| 152. That's it: someone should tell all patriotic leakers to take the time |
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it takes to drive out to some isolated public phone booth out there, before they call to do their patriotic duty for helping to protect the Constitution and the public. I doubt Bu$hCor-up-p have flying drones "1984"-style to follow them all whenever and wherever they go out (yet).
Repeat to them: Phone Booths - Phone Booths - Phone Booths
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stop the bleeding
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:17 AM
Response to Original message |
| 5. whoa shit - does this mean what I think it means - move over Orwell |
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and say hello to Nazi Germany - oh fucking shit, this is bad - the press is suppose to the 4th arm of the Gov. for checks and balances this is bad, bad bad .
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The Wizard
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
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or Fifth column, take your pick.
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truthisfreedom
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message |
| 6. the MSM has chosen their own fate by being complicit in bushco's evil. |
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now they're reaping the rewards... they get their share of our brave new world.
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Supersedeas
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
| 129. maybe they prefer to transcribe what the spokesman say |
Protagoras
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message |
| 7. This was one of the first things I thought of last week |
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when the lid started coming off. Confidential sources, political connections, and since we're at it...people calling specialists or mental health professionals so they can later be outted as being Nuts.
and none of this requires you listen to the actual conversation, at least not at first...just see which two phones connection and you are in the game.
Now perhaps it'll get personal enough for some reporters to begin doing their damn jobs again.
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havocmom
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
| 62. Yep, create files on people, then, if they give you trouble, pull it up |
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and blackmail them into submission. Hoover did it. Hayden just does it with more high tech toys.
Works with office holders, judges, political appointees, employees at regulatory agencies media, journalists and anyone who may become one of the above in the future.
Punch in the number of a trouble maker and come up with files to use against them.
Ya think Hayden worries about confirmation? He has files = he has leverage.
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Mithras61
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message |
 |
the REAL point of the NSA wiretapping program. It's all about political gain, and always has been.
Gawd, I hope no one here was so naive as to believe that the NSA & Pentagon inteligence (I know... oxymoron) were doing what they were supposed to during the Shrub administration (hey, they proved to me that they weren't in September of 2001).
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Rose Siding
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message |
| 9. This isn't to detect patterns as the admin claimed |
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And I was SO sure they were telling the truth 
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TheLeftyMom
(178 posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message |
 |
When are the American people going to wake up and rise up? I'm really worried that those of us who can see are going to continue the fight, lose and then in 5-10 years the rest of the country will wake up from their stupor to realize ALL our rights are gone.
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UpInArms
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message |
| 11. Fascist Totalitarian Big Brother is watching |
Beth in VT
(224 posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
| 78. That slide is a mess. n/t |
lala_rawraw
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message |
| 12. two more organizations have been informed as well |
 |
and I was told a few months back that two reporters were specifically tapped... I told those reporters and left it up to them if they wished to write it as I did not want to chill their source pool. one has since confirmed that he/she is tapped. The other won't discuss it anymore.
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
| 19. Why does anyone use their phones or e-mail for confidential |
lala_rawraw
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
 |
but don't make the assumption that most do or don't, this is why such things should be even more alarming... you follow?
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
| 28. Right. I've got my one-time pads ready. |
 |
And that other tool they taught us to use at The Farm. 
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
| 55. Good call. You must be an encryption geek like me. |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 12:06 PM by Dunvegan
Keep your lemon juice fountain pen handy also, just in case.
And as was just said, up-thread...establish dead drops...you're going to need those too.
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #55 |
| 64. But, I'm just an amateur. |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 12:37 PM by leveymg
Personally, the politics and history of the trade are more interesting than the tradecraft. More of a DOI than a DOO type, if we have to stick to these silly spy metaphors!!
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sofa king
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
| 128. How to make a one-time pad. |
 |
One-time pads were originally made without the use of a computer and this is still possible today. The process can be tedious, but if done correctly and the pad used only once, the result is unbreakable.
There are two components needed to make a one-time pad: a way to generate letters at random and a way to record two copies of the result. The traditional way to do the latter was to use a typewriter and carbon paper. Typewriters are scarce these days and add a requirement to destroy the carbon paper and typewriter ribbon, from which the pad data can often be recovered. A more modern approach is to hand write the letters neatly in groups of five on two part carbonless copy paper sheets, which can be purchased at office supply stores. Each sheet should be given a serial number or some other unique marking.
The simplest way to generate random letters is to obtain 26 identical objects with each letter of the alphabet marked on one object. Tiles from the game Scrabble can be used as long as only one of each letter is selected. Kits for making name charm bracelets are another possibility. One can also write the letters on 26 pennies with a marking pen. The objects are placed in a box or cup and shaken vigorously, then one object is withdrawn and its letter is recorded. The object is returned to the box and the process is repeated. from WikipediaRead it. Learn it. Know it. Properly used, the one-time pad is one of the few encryption methods which is theoretically unbreakable. So the very idea of a one-time pad is likely something that our big brothers won't want us to know. At this point, if it's likely to confound and annoy my keepers' attempts to monitor everything I do, then I'm all for it.
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Tue May-16-06 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #128 |
| 157. What's your opinion of comercial number randomizers? |
 |
Or, are they not really random?
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rodeodance
(1000+ posts)
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Tue May-16-06 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
darkstar
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
| 21. tapped or call tracked? |
 |
Not to gripe. Both are serious. But the story talks about tracking, not content monitoring. the two you refer to were actually tapped? Sincere thanks in advance and thanks for your work. 
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lala_rawraw
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
 |
This was months ago and I told both reporters and spoke with one reporter's editor even. I left it to them how they wished to deal with it. One reporter has since confirmed and said basically fuck them, we all take risks. The other will no longer discuss this with me at all. In fact, the other won't discuss much with me anymore. So I don't know what that means frankly. The scary thing is when I asked source about what this could mean for anyone working on "similar" stories... the source said "bet on it." Since then I have filed a FOIA and attempted to find out if I am being tapped. Of course I am small taters, so maybe not. But who knows. The fact that a whole organization or in this case, three of them, are being tracked is mind-blowing. I had only thought it a few journos here and there.
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stop the bleeding
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
 |
I don't know what else to say
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darkstar
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
 |
And I'm glad to see you feel the same way. There is part of me that thinks: "Well this whouldn't surprise you if you were paying more attention and just a little more cynical about what these folks are capable of." But still, seeing this in black and white has, I don't know, just a quatum jump feel about it. Not the frog/pot incrementalism I've, sadly, been enduring but something more...unendurable.
Anyhow, to know how plugged in you are and that it really sets you back as well kind of legitimizes my present feelings, somehow.
I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post, brain-cleaving as your answer was.
Thanks fer everything,
ds
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
| 48. Press ahead, LaLa...you were early to the party... |
 |
Get the goods on these bastids! So when is Pulitzer going to have a blog reporting award? 
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lala_rawraw
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #48 |
| 53. don't know, i assume when they have one for alt press |
 |
but John Byrne just won project censored (one of the top awards, don't know which one as I was too upset to fully care, lol).
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
| 51. Tapping is heinous and high crimes. Even tracking call records is chilling |
 |
All you need to know is the reporter's calls and cross-reference with their stories. Bingo...source uncovered. So, remind me: What did Judith Miller go to jail for? 
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
| 70. Larisa, the next question is: |
 |
How soon do reporters start dissapearing?
It's the logical next step.
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lala_rawraw
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #70 |
| 74. Chilling the source pool = dissapearing n/t |
leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #74 |
| 77. Or, just making those in the game more serious,and knocking |
 |
a few fence-sitters into the arena.
Boy, if this doesn't convince the smarter major media people that there's a real problem. nothing will.
I'm pissed, but glad that this is all coming out. Not in the least bit surprised about the spying against journalists, except that the powers that be would be stupid enough to let this get this far into the public eye. Now, it can't just be dismissed as fringe "conspiracy theory."
The Wall Street and Washington grey eminences, I suspect, really wish now that they had weighed in the other way in 2000 and 2004, and Al Gore was still in the White House. The element of plausible deniability about domestic political espionage is now gone, and that makes politics and governance in general a lot less manageable than it used to be.
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lala_rawraw
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #77 |
| 126. The MSM, some on the left, and all of the right |
 |
don't give a rat's ass about real journos... something I have sadly learned in my visiting time here at du, which I have cut down as a result. it is sad and it is true 
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #126 |
| 143. But, La La, most of us at DU do care about you |
 |
and appreciate your skills and hard work.
Don't let the bullying of a few jealous SOBs put you off. In the end, time wounds all heels. And, we know who they are.
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
| 31. Lala...are you the patriotic whistle-blower? |
Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
| 34. Lala...thankyou...thankyou...thankyou |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 11:53 AM by Dunvegan
This is the "tipping point" story for the administration because it confronts the lapdog corporate-owned lapdog media head-on.
It has been requisite to break the stranglehold BushCo. had on the media.
This just may be it.
Brava, LaLa...Brava!
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lala_rawraw
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #34 |
| 39. sorry, i don't follow |
 |
and cannot see images on my stupid machine 
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
| 36. I'll say it AGAIN: Lala...are you the patriotic whistle-blower? |
leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #36 |
| 40. I thought the third dupe was only to be used in dire emergencies |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 11:52 AM by leveymg
as an extraction signal. Dunvegan, are you in danger? If not, we're sending you back to The Farm for re-training. 
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
| 46. Third dupe? Sorry, if you mean 3rd dupe of story, check the timestamp. |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 11:57 AM by Dunvegan
I believe I researched if this was on DU rather well before posting.
There were subsequent threads by others after my post.
Otherwise...if I'm missing your drift...just go ahead and send me back to the farm (as long as it's NOT Crawford Ranch!)
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #46 |
| 49. Don't worry. Your desk in the SF office will still be there. |
 |
I'm just pulling your leg.
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #49 |
| 83. Thanks. I do work in infosec...but when you have a DISA client... |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 01:03 PM by Dunvegan
...no office...they only give the lowly infosec consultant a cube, if that.
Or, like working a gig at Cheyenne Mt. where I stood the entire consult
But you do get a very polite young soldier escort...who carries an M-16.
And walked in front of me down the cubicle corridor shouting "Unclear!"
(I took it he was telling the cube-rats, "Here comes someone who just doesn't get it!")
He DID allow me to go to the women's restroom alone. See, mondo polite!
(Obviously, I wasn't in any danger of going out the bathroom window on him...and then climbing to the surface.)
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #83 |
| 110. I'm not exactly John Steed or George Smiley. I don't even wannabe. |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 04:09 PM by leveymg
One of my favorite encapsulations of the intelligence world is the following book review in the NYT of a study of the dysfunctionalpersonality types among spies: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0DE3DC... Real-life espionage, Hitz writes, is often ''more bizarre, more deserving of a place in Ripley's than the fictional accounts.'' Le Carré's best-known character, George Smiley, that pudgy, drab, middle-aged man in his ill-fitting suit, has been admired for his workaday authenticity, but the real spies Hitz describes are another beast altogether. The Russians Pyotr Popov and Oleg Penkovsky relished taking unnecessary risks, and Penkovsky even came to see his mission as ''divinely blessed.'' The C.I.A. mole Aldrich Ames courted exposure by living way beyond his visible means of support. Hanssen was more careful in matters of tradecraft, but indulged in peculiar sexual activities and spent his money on trying to ''rescue'' a stripper.
If anything, the ability to cast oneself as the hero in a romantic yarn seems essential to the spy's life. Something all the double agents Hitz examines have in common is disgruntlement with the system they ostensibly serve. He quotes a C.I.A. psychiatrist who, in studying defectors, ''determined that a common characteristic is self-identification as a 'wronged person who elevates his private dissatisfaction into a political principle.' '' In short, like most people who do bad things, they convince themselves they've got good reasons. Like disguises and cover stories, this, too, is an exercise in storytelling. But unlike their fictional counterparts, real-life double-dealers rarely lose sleep over their betrayals. ''Most real spies appear to have been largely untroubled by the consequences'' of their lies, Hitz writes.No, I don't envy them. I pity them. As the old saying goes, 'there goeth but for the grace of God, thee." I'm glad I turned down the recruiter in my Sophomore year. I was approached by a former Colonel in the Polish Army who by some inexplicable turn had been hired to teach an introduction to journalism seminar at a large university in the Northeast I attended. Odd, the Colonel didn't seem to have any background to teach the subject, other than his recent employment by the Voice of America. His Polish was, no doubt, excellent. The course consisted of a bi-weekly lecture by the Colonel, the contents of which was the most flagrant disinformation about the world, followed by written tests designed to guage whether we had been paying attention to his presentation, reading the newspaper regularly, and had knowledge of world events, geography and history. This was early Reagan Administration, and listening to him was like being lectured to by Jeanne Kirkpatrick, an experience I also endured once on the other side of the Charles River. I was one of the few in the packed auditorium to rise and challenge the Colonel's skewed version of world affairs. A few weeks after the course started, he invited me to meet him in his office after class. He asked me what I wanted to do after college, and several leading questions about working for the government. When he suggested that he thought I would make a good prospect for "referral", I thanked him and remarked I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do, but I had some misgivings about intelligence work. It wasn't clear which spy agency he was recruiting for, and I didn't ask directly - it seemed more likely he was scouting for the CIA rather than the Polish Army-- but, that wasn't really the issue. It was that spy agencies were hard to tell apart, judging by what they do, as one of my other professors pointed out. That other professor (not the recruiter) was Howard Zinn, and I had Howard every semester for three years. That sort of innoculated me, and nothing has really happened since to persuade me that I made the wrong career choice.
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sofa king
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #110 |
| 131. You must have rubbed up against a different crowd than I did. |
 |
Or perhaps your decision to decline was presented with more civility than mine.
I unwisely chose to treat the offer with a degree of carelessness which I regret to this day. I still remember almost precisely what I said: "hell no, you guys chew people up and spit them out."
And that's just what they did. I've never been the same since.
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #131 |
| 146. Were you in the military at the time? |
 |
Your assessment would have been quite accurate for some Operational roles. Sounds like you had seen the results first-hand, or close enough.
Actually, someone I know well is a retired agent handler who worked for both CIA and DIA in Central Europe. The job took a big toll on him.
He hasn't been the same since, either. So, maybe you did the right thing for yourself.
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sofa king
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #146 |
| 149. Not military, just a drunk too close to the Beltway. |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 11:18 PM by sofa king
I believe I was identified by a talent spotter in a bar in Tysons Corner where I liked to rip up that silly trivia game that bars used to have. One day I had an unusual group of admirers descend upon me, praising me for my trivia skills and dropping leaden hints, with the lead asshole eventually saying, "you're on my team now," like I'd just been bought and sold, without my ever saying yes or no. That really pissed me off.
I wish I hadn't been reading that John LeCarre book at the time--in fact, I lost it that night, sometime before I crapped my pants, I conclude, otherwise I would have wiped my ass with the pages from the book. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
I cynically told my new owners what I said above, the conversation abruptly ended, and ten minutes later I started having auditory and visual hallucinations and extreme paranoia, similar to the effects described by users of DMT (except I've never heard of pants-crapping being associated with hallucinogens). Five minutes after that a very SEALish looking fellow sitting on the other side of me at the bar very insistently offered me a ride home, which I declined by tearing out the bar and eventually trying to sneak out the back door of a nearby shop. When I did, I very improbably ran into a person I know to be a member of the intelligence community, father of a former coworker of mine, working on a car in the loading dock. Three cars, including a guy with a guard dog, followed me as I wandered through quiet neighborhoods, mad as a loon and screaming for someone to call the cops so I could go to the hospital (as crazy as I was, I distinctly recall having the thought that if I didn't get a blood test, nobody would ever believe me). I don't think I saw a cop all night--in Fairfax County. People who live there will disbelieve me for mentioning that alone. Eventually, I got home, scarred, bloody, and covered in my own feces.
It just got stranger, and stranger, and stranger after that, for weeks and months. No point in describing it in detail--the whole thing is so fucked up nobody would possibly believe me--as I discovered to my dismay when I tried to tell everyone I knew. Not even my shrink would buy it. But for those of you doubting, ask yourself why I would bother to tell such a strange story. I can tell any story I want to tell, true or not, yet I choose to tell you this highly embarassing tale.
Some of the psychological effects from that incident have never gone away--in fact, I'm sure it's going to kill me, sooner rather than later, either from the crushing depression or by talking too much about it. I don't care anymore. The sad part is that had I been invited rather than acquired, in a more professional setting, I would have jumped at the chance to serve my country by using my mind. Now? Fuck 'em. They'd have to start with an apology and work their way up to a six-figure salary and daily blow jobs in my free penthouse apartment--and yes Uncle NSA, that's a request. Please pass it on to whomever fucked me up.
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Tue May-16-06 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #149 |
| 156. There have been stranger approaches, |
 |
Tysons? That must have been Cofer B. and the UBL Unit at CTC -- I guess you caught them one afternoon when they knocked off work early and went out and tied one on. Would that have been January 15, 2000, by any chance?
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sofa king
(1000+ posts)
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Tue May-16-06 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #156 |
| 177. Nope, a few years before that. |
 |
Roughly April or May of 1997.
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Tue May-16-06 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #131 |
| 154. Speaking of chewed:Remember the run-on soliloquy from "Good Will Hunting? |
 |
When he interviewed for the NSA slot?
======
INT. SEAN'S OFFICE -- NIGHT
Will sits across from Sean.
SEAN So you might be working for Uncle Sam.
A beat. Will has obviously been stewing on this.
WILL (cont'd) Say I'm working at N.S.A. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. So I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself, 'cause I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and fifteen hundred people I never had a problem with get killed. (rapid fire) Now the politicians are sayin' "send in the Marines to secure the area" 'cause they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, gettin' shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number got called, 'cause they were pullin' a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie takin' shrapnel in the ass. And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, 'cause he'll work for fifteen cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile my buddy from Southie realizes the only reason he was over there was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish to scare up oil prices so they could turn a quick buck. A cute, little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at two-fifty a gallon. And naturally they're takin' their sweet time bringin' the oil back and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink seven and sevens and play slalom with the icebergs and it ain't too long 'til he hits one, spills the oil, and kills all the sea-life in the North Atlantic. So my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive so he's got to walk to the job interviews which sucks 'cause the shrapnel in his ass is givin' him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starvin' 'cause every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue-plate special they're servin' is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State.
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Tue May-16-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #154 |
| 161. As we learned in the sequel, he took the job, but ended up |
 |
Edited on Tue May-16-06 09:14 AM by leveymg
hunting down his control officer in St. Petersburg. Or, was that supposed to be Moscow?
Conklin: This is not a drill, soldier. We clear on that? This is a live project. You're a go. Training is over. Training is over.
Or, did he just end up breaking PGP solutions, with weekends off to eradicate crabgrass in Crofton, MD?
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stop the bleeding
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
| 47. Geeze Mark I use to live in Richmond |
 |
are you saying she is at the Naval base?
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
| 52. "The Farm" at Camp Peary is the |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 12:10 PM by leveymg
CIA's most storied training facility. It's like bootcamp for spooks, where they learn basic spookcraft, and how to use spookgear, and how how to double-back on tails, and spook stuff like that.
I was just kidding. If an Officer screws up on technical matters -- like sending the wrong alert code -- he/she might get sent back for retraining.
Joke. Sorry for the confusion.
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lala_rawraw
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #52 |
| 56. i cannot see graphics on DU via this browser |
 |
so i have no clue what people are talking about... but i am not a whistleblower am I? very confused 
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
| 60. I displayed a Mapquest that shows Camp Peary |
 |
Just an illustration to go along with my ha-ha to Dunvegan, above.
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bleever
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
| 63. Dunvegan posted a pic of people applauding, in case you were a |
 |
position to be a whistleblower. Leveymg posted maps of where a CIA training facility is, kidding (sorta) about spycraft. Nothing serious to be confused about, especially on this serious subject. 
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #63 |
 |
Actually, it really pisses me off to have everything that I've been speculating about confirmed.
It's as bad as I had thought. I think Russell Tice, ex-NSA whistleblower, will be giving us some more details, soon.
This article seems to be a preemptive leak to soften the impact of his expected testimony to the Senate Intel Committee.
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bleever
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #67 |
| 72. And even though we suspect it already, we'll still be really angry |
leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #72 |
| 80. That would blow the lid off things. |
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There's be a governmental legitimacy crisis. Seventy percent of the American people would question all the laws passed, all the judges appointed, all the administrative actions in the last six years.
Who knows where that could end? No. They'll do everything to keep that one under wraps.
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glitch
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
| 125. It was an image of an audience clapping. Even though you aren't a whistle |
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blower you are an enlightener (did I just make that word up?) and so you get applause.
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lala_rawraw
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #125 |
| 127. i want to be the decider |
EVDebs
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
| 100. Lala_rawraw, a related link. FirstFruits probably includes us at DU |
 |
along with anyone critical of Il Dunce during 'wartime' BTW, these programs all were instituted at NSA PRIOR to 9-11, read the links at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message |
| 13. ABC/WaPo Poll: 66% of our editors would turn over info to NSA |
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ABC News Exec: "Tell you what, we'll save you the trouble of bugging our phones if you cut us some slack on those criminal investigations of our parent corporate management."
Bush-Cheney Official: "We'll get back to you on that."
WaPost Editor: "Here, just take our files."
Bush-Cheney Official: "No thanks - there's nothing here we didn't want you to have to begin with."
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
| 18. Now THAT'S funny. In an Orwellian, funny whistling-in-the-gravyard funny. |
 |
Very "The Onion-like." Kudos, leveymg.
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leveymg
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
| 33. Almost forgot The Times |
 |
NYT reporter: "You're not really sharing this stuff with the CIA, are you?"
Bush-Cheney Official: "We want them to think so. Let's do breakfast about that. Next Wednesday good for you? What are you doing Tuesday night?"
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EVDebs
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
| 101. 100% would submit to a Sigmoidoscopy too, but that doesn't make it |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 01:56 PM by EVDebs
Constitutional. I hear NSA is in turmoil since their Y2K three day computer shut down when the Brits had to cover for us. Sheeese. For your eyes only http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/sigmoidos...
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kahleefornia
(530 posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:28 AM
Response to Original message |
| 14. leaking = bad, or leaking = good?!?! |
 |
Someone help me out here. We are upset that the name of a covert CIA officer was leaked to the media. We arent' upset when classified information about bad Bush "policy" (ie, schemes) is leaked to the media, because that's the only way we can know about it.
Aside from this being a "big brother" issue, aside from privacy rights, are we for or against the leaking of classified government information?
I think this is a very important question.
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MallRat
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
| 24. "When the President does it, that means that it's not illegal." |
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Bush is applying the Nixon standard for ethics.
White House leaks? GOOD. Anyone else leaks? BAD.
-MR
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MGKrebs
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
| 35. Many of us view the press as a check on the government. |
 |
The press is SUPPOSED to question authority and keep us people informed. This will apply to a Dem administration as well. So, government sources that leak information that illuminates things the government is doing- and may be doing wrong- are helpful, even if it is sometimes illegal. And leakers of that type of information (should) know the risk they are taking, and are all the more courageous for doing so. I don't think many would say that leakers of classified information should not stand before a judge and/or jury to face the consequences of their action. We would just hope that in certain cicumstances, justice would be merciful.
On the other hand, you have administration sources leaking information to confuse and obscure the truth and to exact revenge on an opponent. This is not the way we expect our government to act, and I would hope that the justice served on those who do this would be, shall we say, a little less than merciful.
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
| 54. Of the checks and balances...the First Amendment names the Fourth Estate |
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...as the final check and balance...the Fourth Estate is the free press.
Okay. Bush has broken his sworn oath to uphold the Constitution.
Enough yet?
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Roland99
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #54 |
| 136. The Fourth Estate was put six feet under years ago. |
Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
| 59. Leaking is a case-by-case judgement call. |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 12:12 PM by Dunvegan
Sometimes it's whistle-blowing (i.e., we'd never know how badly we're being screwed without it.)
In the case of the NSA using call records and phone taps to check who's just plain talking to which journalist...that flies in the face of the First Amendment, and source privilege...there is a journalism "shield law" to protect sources.
Or there WAS a shield law...nullified by the NSA.
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tandot
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
| 68. They were outing a covert CIA officer to get back at a political opponent |
 |
and with that endangering all other covert agent who worked with her. I wouldn't call it a "leak" ... I would call it abuse of power and serious misconduct, which should result in impeachment.
If nobody knows what the Government is doing, we might as well call it a dictatorship. Without a free press and whistleblowers who expose unconstitutional acts or crimes committed by our government, you can't call it a Democracy.
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Roland99
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #68 |
| 137. They leaked Plame's identity and outed Brewster Jennings for FAR worse... |
 |
It was to damage the CIA's capabilities in Iran and cover up Cheney's involvement.
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Tue May-16-06 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #137 |
| 155. I think we have a winner...very true, Roland |
Catrina
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
| 112. Leaking to harm covert agents for political reasons = bad because of |
 |
the law ~ Intelligence Identities Protection Act! It borders on treason, therefore it's a serious crime, which is why there is an 'on-going investigation' to find out who the criminal is.
Whistle-blowing is protected under the law because it allows ordinary citizens to warn the public when there is illegal activity going on, in this case by the government itself.
In the case of the Whistle-blower who revealed the information that the US government was breaking the law regarding 'rendering' of prisoners to foreign countries to be tortured, that is not leaking but a good citizen reporting about illegal activities being conducted by the government.
The same thing goes for the Whistle-blowers who have revealed the illegal Domestic Spying program being conducted by this administration. Even Ashcroft knew this to be illegal and refused to go along with it.
If the government is violating the Constitution and a government employee (who is sworn to defend the Constitution) reports this violation, that is a good citizen doing his/her duty.
The Bush administration is simply trying to conflate the two by calling Whistle-blowers 'leakers' to try to connect their own already defined illegal outing of Valerie Plame to the perfectily legal reporting of their own illegal activities.
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kahleefornia
(530 posts)
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Tue May-16-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #112 |
 |
that makes much more sense to me now. They are making it look like a double standard to be outraged at some "leaks" but not others. I'm afraid I fell for the Rovian terminology there.
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kpete
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:30 AM
Response to Original message |
| 15. ABC NEWS: Federal Official: US Tracking ABC, NYT, Washing Post |  |
 |
ABC News: Federal official says US tracking calls made by ABC News, New York Times, Washington Post RAW STORY Published: Monday May 15, 2006 ABC News' press office just sent out this release to news organizations, RAW STORY has learned. The story has been posted at the ABC NEWS blog (Read here). # ABC's Brian Ross and Richard Esposito Report: A senior federal law enforcement official tells ABC News the government is tracking the phone numbers we call in an effort to root out confidential sources. "It's time for you to get some new cell phones, quick," the source told us in an in-person conversation. We do not know how the government determined who we are calling, or whether our phone records were provided to the government as part of the recently-disclosed NSA collection of domestic phone calls. Other sources have told us that phone calls and contacts by reporters for ABC News, along with the New York Times and the Washington Post, are being examined as part of a widespread CIA leak investigation. http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/ABC_News_Top_federal_... AT:
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
| 16. NSA to ABC-Reporter's Calls Reveal Patterns: "We Know Who You're Calling" |
 |
Full Breaking Story Here:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Federal Source to ABC News: We Know Who You're Calling May 15, 2006 9:33 AM Brian Ross and Richard Esposito Report: A senior federal law enforcement official tells us the government is tracking the phone numbers we call in an effort to root out confidential sources. "It's time for you to get some new cell phones, quick," the source told us in an in-person conversation....Click on above link for more...but someone in the NSA just went way off the reservation.
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AtLiberty
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
| 17. Strange...nothing is said about tracking Faux News calls... |
 |
I'm sure it's an oversight. Such sloppy reporting - sheesh! 
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pepperbear
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
| 22. don't suppose this is happening to fix or the washington times do you? |
JerseygirlCT
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
| 107. We shouldn't be surprised |
 |
This is EXACTLY what I thought we'd learn about their "innocent" tracking of "just phone numbers".
Bull.
They will use this spying as they've used the Patriot Act -- to jump on political opponents, real and perceived. To hassle anti-war people, or those dangerous vegetarians or college students.
This is the gold-mine for them, and they will not hesitate to use it. Because they believe the definition of legal is "whatever we want to do".
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Kablooie
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:31 AM
Response to Original message |
| 20. November may be TOO LATE! |
 |
I'll bet the administration plans to have everything in place to insure the elections only go to those they control before November.
Ya know, we may be sunk.
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Miss Chybil
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:39 AM
Response to Original message |
| 26. So it's "Bush Administration Guidelines" that decide what's legal, |
 |
not the Constitution, or the Congress, or the courts. Ok. I get it now. Will be putting out a pocket version, so we know how to act?
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patcox2
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message |
| 29. Where does it say NSA? Thats a big leap. |
 |
Its well known that the government is investigating leaks, its been reported on for months. And phone records have always been fair game in a criminal investigation.
There is no need for any NSA involevement in such an investigation. Again, the phone records are available to the FBI in any case.
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
| 41. The point is these "investigations" are going on routinely without warrant |
 |
...thus blowing away precious cover for whistle-blowers and journalistic sources. Remember: That's supposedly what Judith Miller went to jail to defend... 
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patcox2
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
| 111. It doesn't say that at all. |
 |
It says there are specific investigations going on of specific leaks to specific reporters. It doesn't say whether a warrant was obtained one way or another, but the fact is that obtaining a "pen register," a trace of calls made from a particular number, was held by the Supreme Court as not requiring a warrant over 30 years ago.
I do a fair bit of criminal defense work, there is nothing amazing here. The outrage would have been appropriate months ago back when they announced they were going after these reporters (which they did do, and I was outraged). But this is nothing shocking in the context of a criminal investigation.
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TexasLawyer
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
| 69. Phone records are available with a warrant |
 |
but this looks really beyond the pale. We know that NSA is operating without warrants, without judicial oversight and with complete impunity.
So I would think NSA is a good guess.
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kanrok
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #69 |
| 103. Phone records are available with just an administrative subpoena |
 |
See 18 USC 2703 c (2): (2) A provider of electronic communication service or remote computing service shall disclose to a governmental entity the— (A) name; (B) address; (C) local and long distance telephone connection records, or records of session times and durations; (D) length of service (including start date) and types of service utilized; (E) telephone or instrument number or other subscriber number or identity, including any temporarily assigned network address; and (F) means and source of payment for such service (including any credit card or bank account number), of a subscriber to or customer of such service when the governmental entity uses an administrative subpoena authorized by a Federal or State statute or a Federal or State grand jury or trial subpoena or any means available under paragraph (1). http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_se...
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Roland99
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #103 |
| 140. But shouldn't that admin subpoena be for CRIMINAL, not POLITICAL, reasons? |
kanrok
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #140 |
Ganja Ninja
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:43 AM
Response to Original message |
| 30. Does this mean their also monitoring the phone calls of .. |
 |
the special prosecutor investigating them?
I ask the question even though I already know the answer.
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Marie26
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #30 |
TexasLawyer
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
 |
why the hell not-- there's nothing to stop them?
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #71 |
| 79. Agree, TexasLawyer... |
 |
...and what about general "lawyer/client privilege?"
Doesn't this broad and pervasive level of spying fly in the the face of that?
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TexasLawyer
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #79 |
| 134. Hey, if they'll ignore the law |
 |
they will certainly ignore all the privilege niceties.
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FormerOstrich
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message |
| 32. What? If they aren't doing anything wrong... |
 |
they have nothing to worry about. Maybe enough revelations like this we can put an end to such poppycock.
Seriously, you can buy a cell phone for cash. You can buy the cards for minutes for cash. Keep the purchases strictly on cash basis, no one will know who you are. Wonder how long those will last?
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savemefromdumbya
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message |
| 44. Once the media get angry Bush may not last a minute |
FatDave
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
| 124. I've lost count of the number of times I've said that. (nt) |
PRETZEL
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 11:56 AM
Response to Original message |
| 45. Christianne Amanpour (sp) |
 |
Didn't she come out a few months ago and claim that her phones were being tapped?
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ShortnFiery
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
| 57. Yes, and so did Christopher Hitchens. This is SICKO - Illegal! n/t |
PRETZEL
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #57 |
| 75. Hitchens was probably drunk and just wanted attention... |
 |
Sorry, slight sarcastic moment.
Lost alot of likeability of Hitchens after his backstabbing of Sid Blumenthal.
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ShortnFiery
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #75 |
| 89. Yeah, but in a moment of clarity, Hitchens convinced me that there was |
 |
something to his claims. He has lawyers involved. Hitchens stated that many Journalists have sources that WANT TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS. This is horrible, people should be out in the streets. We have no free press ... our government is spying on OUR PRESS! 
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Roland99
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #57 |
| 138. Who the hell would even want to listen to that narcissistic a-hole? |
coffeenap
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:00 PM
Response to Original message |
| 50. Parking lots, park benches, disguises, cloaks, daggers... nt |
Trajan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:08 PM
Response to Original message |
| 58. All Reporters who are NOT from FOX News ... |
 |
or one of their ideological brethren should be SHOT anyways ..... for treason and crimes against Herr Chimperor and his glorious vision of theocratic perfection on earth ..... right ? .... Hey: IF they killed all media persons who do NOT lick the boots of the Neocon idiots: Wouldnt we be safer from Terrorism ? ..... I mean: WTF? ... Who's side are you on ? .... CMON: .... Are you a traitor too ? ... Come to think of it ... IF they killed EVERYONE on the entire planet > Wouldnt we be safer from Terrorism ? .... HOW could anyone be against that ? .... WTF is wrong with you ? .... HOW could you choose your trivial freedoms over SAFETY ? ....  ... They already have Daryn Kagan's number ... thanks to Pigboy .... They can call her directly to give her marching orders for the day (If she isnt too busy copping for El Rushbo) ... Hell : over HALF of the media is already on WH speed dial .... Hungrily lapping at their Master's boots; hoping one day THEY too can get a cute lil nickname from the Frat Boy Prince .... How do you think George Will is taking this news ? .....
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cally
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:12 PM
Response to Original message |
| 61. Maybe they should have held the story until after the elections |
 |
in November. We wouldn't want the news to report the truth before an election, would we?  For those who don't understand my snark, I'm still furious that so called journalists held important stories until after the 2004 elections. They are the problem.
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Ian_rd
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message |
| 65. This makes perfect sense! This is what they are using it for! |
 |
Eventhough it is clearly illegal, I couldn't figure out what Bush could be using this for. This is it: Review phone records from the New Yorker et. al. and find out who the leakers are. They could then be transferred to other positions or fired for other reasons. The perfect crime, Bush style.
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michael_1166
(412 posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message |
 |
But can we hope ABC has now learned their lesson? Not so sure.
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stubtoe
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message |
| 73. Is anyone really completely surprised by this? |
 |
Considering millions of conversations reportedly tapped, why wouldn't that include reporters, given the proclivities of this administration from hell?
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rodeodance
(1000+ posts)
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Tue May-16-06 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #73 |
| 160. no, not really (and this, in itself is the scary part). |
riona
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:41 PM
Response to Original message |
| 76. This administration has a reputation |
 |
for being secretive. It comes as no surprise that they are aggressively seeking information on anyone who may report on their activities. This "we are at war" business is just another excuse to curtail civil liberties and punish anyone who disagrees.
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NastyDiaper
(806 posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message |
| 81. And underneath the secret illegal activity, incompetence.. |
 |
Ignoring the rank political goal of this illegal activity, they have to be stupid to think that it could work.
Once again, the only real effect give more debt to friends of dick.
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bvar22
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message |
| 82. Time to get the "staffers" to start calling prominent Republicans... |
 |
...and their staff members several times a day. Home phones and personal cell phones of White House aids and staff members would be a plus.
Lots of calls to these #s on a regular basis would really confuse the "trackers".
The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.
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bluethruandthru
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 12:59 PM
Response to Original message |
| 84. Click on the link and go to the end of the story! |
 |
People can post comments about the story. Reading them will send a chill down your spine! All these idiots are thrilled that the media will finally be held accountable for their illegal leaking!
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Tunkamerica
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #84 |
| 108. I have a feeling "all those people" are just one guy flamebaiting. |
 |
The diction and phrasing are pretty identical after you read five or six. Also, they all occur in one big glob at the beginning then every following comment is about how bad the first comments are. Just something to stir people up I believe.
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MockSwede
(579 posts)
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Mon May-15-06 01:00 PM
Response to Original message |
 |
Isn't that a Predator remote control drone aircraft carrying a Hellfire missle?
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seafan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 01:01 PM
Response to Original message |
| 86. Al Franken just reported this on air at approx 12:50 pm EDT |
 |
Says he will soon try to get Brian Ross on his show.
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krispos42
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 01:05 PM
Response to Original message |
| 87. What drives me nuts is that is may not tchnically be illegal!!! |
 |
I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that since the wozzy-ass telcoms simply 'gave' this information to the NSA, what the NSA is doing with it may not be illegal, in the same way letting the police search your house without a warrent makes the search legal. Okay, maybe the NSA isn't the one that should have made the request because they are a purely foreign surveillence agency. Maybe the FBI should have made the request. But, dammit, when the telecoms just roll over and play dead like that... I have Verizon! And I hope and pray that they, along with AT&T and SBC, are sued into bankruptcy and are forced to dissolve. Maybe Qwest can pick up the pieces. And I big chunk of settlement money would make me smile. 
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #87 |
| 98. The winners of the class action suit should be the "winners"... |
 |
...publically-owned telcos for all!
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krispos42
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #98 |
 |
Just make sure you buy the stock AFTER it's followed the president's poll numbers... lmao
|
Roland99
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #87 |
| 141. Welcome to DU, krispos42! |
krispos42
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue May-16-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #141 |
progressivebydesign
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 01:15 PM
Response to Original message |
| 88. Scarier are some of the comments after the article!! |
 |
Does the GOP hire people to write that stuff, threatening the press? Can you even believe that there are people out there angry at the media for reporting on the illegalities of this administration? WHy is it those asshats care only about the Second Amendment, and nothing else in the Constitution. Frankly, next time any of those people say that the Constitution is irrelevant, tell them we'll be repealing the Second Amendment.. then watch them freak!
I especially like people who actually write those comments from work, using their work email addies and names... There are few on there, if I wasn't a nice person, that are begging to get busted at work for writing things like that on company time. Oh.. but that would be leaking information about them... and invading their privacy.. and that's protected. right?
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Dunvegan
(1000+ posts)
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Mon May-15-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #88 |
| 93. Dear ABC Comments Poster: Our NSA-supplied filtering software... |
 |
Edited on Mon May-15-06 01:48 PM by Dunvegan
...has detected an unpatriotic bias in your comments post, and has determined that it contains a decidedly left-wing and seditious slant. Therefore your post was spooled to ~spam/dev/null for deletion. Before deletion, a copy was automatically intercepted by the NSA. Our database has been updated. All further comments originating from your IP address will also be deleted. Cordially Yours In Service to the Homeland, ABC News Postscript: Our database would like to take this opportunity to commend you for your 23 minute call to your mother yesterday, on the day of worship. Remember the Homeland Trifecta: Kurche, Kutchen, Kinder! 
|