Army releases 18-year-old with autism from enlistment contract

[sabra]

http://159.54.227.3/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060510/NEWS06/60510039

Army releases 18-year-old with autism from enlistment contract
The Associated Press

PORTLAND — An 18-year-old Portland man with autism, whose recruitment renewed questions about Army practices, was released Tuesday from his enlistment contract.

Jared Guinther signed up for one of the Army’s most dangerous jobs, cavalry scout, after being heavily recruited. He passed medical and other examinations. He was scheduled to leave for basic training in August.

The Army announced Tuesday that it decided he didn’t meet enrollment criteria, two days after The Oregonian newspaper reported his parents’ objections.

Gaylan Johnson, spokesman for the United States Military Entrance Processing Command, said Guinther’s disability was not disclosed in the medical exam and information regarding his condition was not available to the command until after the enrollment process was complete. The command oversees medical exams for the Army.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. HA! You think just a bit of publicity might have helped in that decision?

[spinbaby]

2. Bad publicity

I'll bet they would have kept him if it weren't for the publicity.

[Public_Hazard]

19. Yup.

Given how Bush has committed so much of our military to one bullshit endeavor and is probably about to spread it even thinner (Iran), they'll take anyone they can get.

[Book Lover]

3. I'm glad to know that the parents' efforts paid off

And a thank you to the free press.

[aaronbees]

30. Indeed....

Good on The Oregonian for bringing this to light and investigating, and good on the parents for fighting this and protecting their son. :)

[MADem]

4. Next, they need to fire the MEPS physician who found him fit for duty

AND the processers who did his preenlistment paperwork.

That nonsense about information regarding his condition not being available is bullshit. You don't enlist someone, assuming you are doing it PROPERLY, without all pertinent medical info.

This was a case of a DESPERATE recruiter, trying to slide one by, and a sloppy MEPS, and complicit enlistment processers.

Disgraceful.

[MindPilot]

5. Please excuse me if this question sounds a bit ignorant

but isn't autism kind of obvious?

[MissB]

11. No.

There are varying degrees. He probably doesn't have all the usual social skills you'd expect in an 18 year old, but he probably isn't banging his head or biting people either.

I'm not all that knowledgable about autism. We did have a neighbor boy that was diagnosed with Aspergers, which I think is considered to be a high functioning form of autism. In nearly every interaction with my children, he'd bite them. I'm sure eventually he'll outgrow it.

[trogdor]

15. Cavalry scouts are intelligence-gatherers.

They are required to interact with their fellow scouts and with their chain of command. These skills are CRITICAL for success in that MOS and survival on the battlefield. At least he didn't ship out; drill sergeants have enough on their plates without having to worry about somebody like this. Given that and the fact that most of his peers would be dazed, confused, and just plain lost in space much of the time, he'd probably make it to the third week before somebody he either got hurt (or hurt someone else) in training, or the drill sergeants got around to noticing that there's something about this particular private beyond the usual dumbassedness of new privates that's not quite right.

[tblue37]

35. I babysit sometimes for a boy with Asperger's.

He is a delightful child, and I adore him. He is also very smart. But there are things that would be impossible for him in a situation like those that boy would have been in as a soldier. Right now, even getting him to the bus stop on time to go to the library, which he LOVES to do, is almost impossible. He will stop to look at a bug, and if I try to hurry him along, he will not cooperate, and sometimes he even gets very angry and being hurried along. The stop is 5 minutes from my apartment. I leave about 30 minutes early in order to get him there on time, and we still don't always make it.

He also has trouble making friends and getting along with teachers. Like kids, soldiers can be very hard on someone who seems different or a little weird. And his peers in the army would have guns!

Also, he has trouble with teachers, even thought the school he goes to has one of the top autism programs in the US. He hasn't been put into that program, but his teachers in the regular classes are aware of Asperger's, and as I also tutor him, I have gone with his mom to conferences with them, so we have discussed his Asperger's. But he is in a regular classroom, so his differences can make him an obstacle to progress and order. When I have him, it is just him and his one good friend from school, or else just him alone. I am flexible, so I adjust our activities and lessons to his needs, since it is much harder for him to adjust to rigid schedules and lessons.

His parents tell me that other babysitters have refused to take care of him after one or two tries, because he doesn't respond normally to attempts to control or direct him. Actually, he is extremely easy to take care of--if you are aware of what is or is not possible for him and also aware that when he doesn't cooperate or respond normally, he isn't being "bad,"" but just needs to be handled differently to manage his behavior. I never have trouble with him at all.

But if his teachers, who know about Asperger's and work in a school where autism is dealt with better than almost anywhere else in the world, have trouble dealing with him in a structured classroom situation, imagine how a drill sergeant or a superior on the battlefield would handle him--or fail to handle him.

Sure, as he gets older he gets better at meshing with others and with structure, but he will never be all that great at it. If he were to be recruited at 18 and sent into battle, I think he would get killed and would probably get others killed. A soldier can’t march to the beat of his own drum. He needs to fit into his group like a cog in a well-oiled machine, especially in battle.

[Boomer]

13. Not necessarily

The term "autism" is too broad to provide much clarity in this situation since it covers such a wide range of conditions.

A high-functioning Aspie (someone with Asperger's syndrome) might not be obvious to anyone without some awareness of the symptoms, and AS might not even be a particular hindrance to a career in the military. A co-worker of mine was an ex-Marine and high-functioning Aspie who only became aware of his AS after his son was diagnosed with a more obvious case of autism.

Without a better description of how this young man's autism is manifested, it's impossible to understand how it affected his judgment or his ability to serve.

[Karenina]

34. About Jared...

"Diagnosed with autism at age 3, Jared is polite but won't talk to people unless they address him first. It's hard for him to make friends..."

What the information in earlier articles tells us is that

1. JARED has language and social interaction challenges.

2. His stepmother has been his advocate as her experience with her 2 children tipped her off to Jared's atypical behaviors.

"Jared would play with buttons for hours on end," she said. "He'd play with one toy for days. Loud noises bothered him. He was scared to death of the toilet flushing, the lawn mower."

"School and medical records show that Jared, whose recent verbal IQ tested very low, spent years in special education classes. It was only when he was a high school senior that Brenda pushed for Jared to take regular classes because she wanted him to get a normal rather than a modified diploma."

4. Jared was not completely aware of what his enlistment meant.

"Jared didn't know there was a war raging in Iraq until his parents told him last fall -- shortly after a military recruiter stopped him outside a Southeast Portland strip mall and complimented him on his black Converse All Stars."

"When they asked Jared how long he would be in the Army, he said he didn't know. His enlistment papers show it's just over four years. Jared also was disappointed to learn that he wouldn't be paid the $4,000 signing bonus until after basic training.
During a recent family gathering, a relative asked Jared what he would do if an enemy was shooting at him. Jared ran to his video game console and killed a digital Xbox soldier and announced, "See! I can do it!"

5. The recruiters tried to pull a fast one and Jared's comprehension of that is in question.

"Velasco initially denied knowing Jared but later said he'd spent a lot of time mentoring him because Jared was going to become a cavalry scout. The job entails "engaging the enemy with anti-armor weapons and scout vehicles," according to an Army recruiting Web site."

"Jared is disappointed he might not go because he thought the recruiters were his friends, they said."

THIS IS THE REAL ISSUE:

"Jared's story illustrates a growing national problem as the military faces increasing pressure to hit recruiting targets during an unpopular war."

For more info see:

http://www.tomjoad.org/freejared.htm

[KansDem]

6. Was he honorably discharged? Does he receive all the GI benefits?

Or does "released from enlistment contract" negate all this?

[stevekatz]

27. allow me to translate

He was never actually in the army. He only had a contract, there's a difference. He wasn't discharged, they basically just tore up his contract.

[AValdoux]

7. Who else slipped thru?

It makes you wonder what else they've overlooked in their recruitment efforts? Do we have soldiers with mental or physical ailments that would normally exempt them from serving? I've read reports they are also overlooking criminal records as well. This war will be with us for long time, even after we've brought everyone home.


AValdoux

[brentspeak]

12. Not all recruiters are trying to recruit just anybody

I tried to enlist in the Army (Nov.2002), but was turned down because I was taking Paxil. It was opposite to what you're suggesting; I was the one trying to get the recruiter to overlook my medical history, not the other way around.

[trogdor]

16. That was the correct decision.

The Army, particularly basic training, is an extremely stressful occupation, and taking in people who are currently taking antidepressants is bad news. Now, if you were finished with your regimen of Paxil for a certain period of time without a recurrence of symptoms, you'd be good to go.

[Lars39]

18. They're sending soldiers *back* that are on anti-depressants.

They're getting desperate for warm bodies.

[tblue37]

36. I have heard that there is a lot of gang activity

among the troops, and that gang colors and gang graffiti are all over the place.

I have also read that some people are scared about these guys coming back from Iraq with high-level urban warfare skills, and also that they fear the possibility that Army equipment and weapons will find their way to the gangs back home.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

8. Let's sign up all of the 18 years and older Down's population too........

why don't we have an ADHD brigade too...I know...the Wheelchair Cavalry!!! Charge!!!!

[0007]

9. The Army wouldn't have done the right thing if they were not

embarrassed into it by public opinion.

[Captain Hilts]

10. Send the recruiters to Leavenworth. nt

[0007]

22. Absolute! That would get the Army's attention real fast.

[trogdor]

14. What a crock of shit.

Gaylan Johnson, spokesman for the United States Military Entrance Processing Command, said Guinther’s disability was not disclosed in the medical exam and information regarding his condition was not available to the command until after the enrollment process was complete. The command oversees medical exams for the Army.

Uh, so they don't do psych evals anymore? Nobody actually talked to this kid and saw that he wasn't all there? Somebody at recruiting command needs to see the inside of the USDB at Fort Leavenworth over this, because it's bullshit.

[Divernan]

28. BS! ! ! His mom happened to call the kid while he was taking his exam

with the recruiting officer. When the kid told her where he was, she had him hand the phone to the recruiter and she TOLD the recruiter her son was autistic. The recruiter blew her off with some comment about how he himself had a learning disability. Mom told him that Autism was much different. Next the kid's Mom called the recruiter's CO and told HIM that her son was autistic. He gave a smartass response that the boy was 18 years old and didn't need his Mommy's permission.

[Mr_Spock]

32. "saw that he wasn't all there?"

This seems a little harsh, no?

There are lots of people who post here who are either Autistic or on the spectrum (I have Aspergers myself). It's not always obvious and that "not all there" expression may hurt some people's feelings...

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hardrada]

20. And at least one chief executive.

[Public_Hazard]

21. Hold on there...

No one is suggesting we lock them up. But being a cavalry scout is dangerous as hell, and you kind of need to be all there. There are jobs he could do, but there needs to be some sensible discretion. You can't turn a person with cerebral palsy into a sniper.

[Occulus]

23. That's what I was trying to state on an earlier thread

One person tried- tried- to make me feel like I was engaging in 'prejudice'.

I'm glad they let the guy out of his contract. And it's probably sadly true- he likely would have gone over there, but for the publicity.

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. Then you needed to try harder.

What you *said* was that anyone with an autism dx should be summarily rejected from service.

If what you meant was "there may be roles in the military for people with ASD, but calvary scout is probably not it" then that's what you should have said - and I would have agreed.

[lumberjack_jeff]

24. You share some of my concerns

... but I wouldn't overstate the case.

The unconscionable tactics used by recruiters are a big problem, and people who have a hard time reading social queues are the most vulnerable.

That said, I have a very hard time with the idea that an Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis would be used to make a blanket prohibition on service. There are many famous people who are ASD (often having an Aspbergers diagnosis) who do very well.

No one here wants to lock up people and throw away the key. The problem isn't malice, it's overprotectiveness, imho.

Self-determination means being allowed to make your own mistakes.

[Mr_Spock]

33. Agreed.

As someone with Aspergers, I have a real issue with authority, but I could serve if I thought I was doing the right thing. OTOH, my sense of good & just is so strong that if I had a bigot RW CO taking pot-shots at me, I'd likely shoot first and worry about the consequences later. I think I'm better off not risking it :D (I'm too old now anyway)

[uppityperson]

26. Very good. Glad this happened, glad it was reported to help it happen

[Sadie5]

29. Neighbor girl has autism

She is nine and a bit slow in school. You can't really tell there is much wrong with her but in one instance a cat walked into the garage and as she backed up to the corner of the room the cat followed. She threw a fit screaming and clawed at the wall. My grandson plays with her sometimes when he visits but even at nine she grabs toys away from other kids and has scratched him a time or two but her grandmother said she would get better as she ages. They seem to have a problem with stressful situations so how could this kid manage in Iraq.

[Mr_Spock]

31. Well, isn't that special...

:eyes:

[noonwitch]

37. If the kid passed the exam without disclosing his "condition"....

Wouldn't that indicate that his autism is not really a disability? Perhaps he has overcome it? That may make him a strong and determined young man, whom I would think the military would be impressed with.

Whatever, it sounds like this is a good example of a kid who doesn't let some kind of label keep him down.

[Karenina]

38. His "test" was "facilitated."

Check this link:

http://www.tomjoad.org/freejared.htm

[kiranon]

39. My son has autism - it doesn't go away

My son can pass any test - he is very smart and looks ok. He has learned how to act like the other kids but he is not at all like "normal" kids. He acts "normal" during the day as he was taught to do and is himself when he is home. Time Magazine's issue this week talks about the autistic brain. It is quite different. Autism doesn't go away. My son is so trusting, he wouldn't understand there is someone out there who wants to hurt him. He believes the bad guys in Star Wars just need to be talked to and they will become good guys. He does not understand social cues or situations but can act out certain scripts so he looks like he understands. Both my husband and I are veterans - and any recruiter could pick out there was something wrong with this 18 year old. I'm glad the military did the right thing and let him go. He would not only endanger himself but everyone else around him.