Anger as US Drops Cup Flag

[Rose Siding]

THE bus carrying the United States football team in the World Cup will not carry the Stars and Stripes flag because of fears of an al-Qaeda attack.

The other 31 teams taking part in the tournament will have huge flags painted on their coaches which will transport them from their hotels to practices, games and airports.

German officials liaised with the US Embassy and it was agreed that it would be "sensible" for the American team to be low profile.

The decision has sparked anger in the States.

More than 95 percent of people in polls insisted that the Stars and Stripes should go on the bus.

All other nations, including England, Poland and Spain which have supported the Iraq war, have their national flags painted on the sides of the buses.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17038994&method=full&siteid=66633&headline=anger-as-us-drops-cup-flag--name_page.html

[RagingInMiami]

1. Let's be honest here

How many people in the United States even care about soccer or the World Cup? How many people would have known it was being played in Germany had it not been for this article?

[Scout1071]

4. Me. Lots of us.

And I'm embarrassed for my country.

[Southsideirish]

22. I remember when we didn't have to be afraid or embarrassed to show "Old

Glory."

[OhioNerd]

40. Why are you embarrassed for your country?

Don't people have the right to chose what sports they enjoy watching?

Speaking for myself, I don't pay attention to AMERICAN football, why should I pay attention to EUROPEAN football?

[arcos]

54. European football?

You mean world football, right?

[OhioNerd]

71. I said what I meant to say. (n/t)

[arcos]

76. Then I've got news for you...

"European" football is played all around the globe, including the Americas, Asia and Africa. Hardly "European", especially considering its roots go back over 2000 years, to China.

[OhioNerd]

81. Uhhh, no... I have news for YOU.

Although people have been kicking around balls for thousands of years, the modern game of EUROPEAN football (Soccer) originated in England in the mid-19th century. The word soccer is a bastardized version of "association", which is mutilated on a pattern that contracts "association" to "socc", then added "-er". "socc-er" is distinguished from "rugg-er", better known as Rugby.


I'm not even INTO sports and I knew that. :eyes:

[MyNameGoesHere]

96. Holy crap!

talk about living up to your screen name.

[OhioNerd]

100. Yeah, well... I'm big on Truth in Advertising. (n/t)

[pnorman]

101. I'm glad you didn't say:

"I thought EVERYONE knew that!"

Thank for making quite clear, something that seemed impenetrable at first glance.

pnorman

[Bill McBlueState]

146. what does "rugg" come from?

Is that the second syllable of a different word?

[Owsley]

148. I'm not sure...

...what OhioNerd means with "Rugg-er". If you play rugby, you're a rugger. The name rugby is derived from the Rugby School in England where the modern game of Rugby was developed. (The game had existed for quite some time, but an "official" version of Rugby was established at the Rugby School.)

Owsley

[SlavesandBulldozers]

105. why am i embarassed for my country?

Jesus, where do I begin?

[Scout1071]

109. Nerd....I'm embarrassed because we can't even put our country

flag on the bus.

[OhioNerd]

124. OK, I'm with you there.

This should have gone like this:

---------------------
Discussion begins:

No flag? Fuck you,
we're having a flag.

Discussion ends.
---------------------

[mia]

97. Me too. I love soccer.

Catch some highlights of previous World Cups here:

FAworldcup.com Goal Of The Century

1994 FIFA World Cup USA™

[DaDeacon]

141. I love soccoer

Sorry to tell you but many US citizens love and watch soccer/football. I know that you may think that it's jsut a few becouase you and your circle may not and I can't balcme you it's a hard sport to understand if you have never played it organized and competitively. I would advise you to check it this year, Uncle Sams Army is always looking for new recruits and yes that is the nickname of US national soccer fans! Uncle Sam's Army ...nuff said!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. I do. I have been to 5 world cups. It is THE sport in the world.

I have tix to go to two games, one in Berlin, one in Munich.
Let's be honest here. Too many people have closed minds in the country or are closet racists. The fact that many immigrants play, watch and prefer soccer to beisbol or that idiotic football thingie comes as a surprise to the uneducated. Frankly, I view disdain for soccer to be based in freeper like antagonism, racism and lack of knowledge and education.

[One Honest Guy]

13. Major League Baseball World Series...

What is it like six countries participating total or something? Oh wait, I forgot Dominican Republic... yeah, that's it.

[alfredo]

19. You know why football never made it in the US? The action is so

non stop and unpredictable they couldn't break away for advertisements. The sport is secondary to the advertising revenue it can bring in. It could be the most exciting sport ever, but if you can't get revenue for the beer, zit cream, and muscle car companies it will not be televised.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

23. don't forget the penis pills and McDonalds.

[alfredo]

25. that's right. If it is advertised on TV chances are you don't

really need it.

[ClintonTyree]

32. And the final score is usually 1-0, 2-1 or.....

3-2 if it's a REALLY high scoring game! I'm sorry, I've given "football" a try and find it positively boring. Watching a bunch of guys running around a field for a couple of hours with very little to show for it is not my idea of entertainment. True, there's non-stop "action", but it entails nothing more than guys running around and occasionally, occasionally.....scoring. The reason it's the most viewed game in the world is because it's relatively inexpensive entertainment in an entertainment starved world. Third world countries can compete with super powers. And don't get me started on the "fans". :eyes: A great majority are normal, law abiding people just out for some "entertainment" but there is a certain faction at every event that take it too the extreme. Doubtless, if you're a "football" fan you know what I mean. There is an unusually bad element connected to the game, always has been, always will be.

[bennywhale]

50. The fact of there being low scores in comparison to American

sports is a peculiarly American complaint. Fans of football (soccer) don't need to be bombarded with statistics and constant points being scored for very little effort. The football fan understands the beauty of the intricacies of the battle on the pitch, the game ebbing and flowing and never stopping. And when a goal does come, because it is relatively rare it is the best moment in any sport anywhere, we go wild. Why do Americans generally have a problem with lack of statistics? (that is a genuine question)

As for the fans. There is an element as you say that are bad, but that is often overhyped and actually trouble usually occurs away from the stadiums these days so proper fans can enjoy the game in safety.

Moreover the white hot environment and rich culture of songs and chanting on the terraces makes the football ground unrivalled for atmosphere with any other sporting stadium. This is one of the unique joys of football.

I'm going to see Newcastle v Chelsea tomorrow and i'm getting nerves about it already. Thats what football does .

[ChairmanAgnostic]

62. I am envious. Enjoy!

[Bill McBlueState]

147. scores

In baseball, the same fans who are obsessed with statistics are also likely to really enjoy a 1-0 pitchers' duel. So I think devoted baseball fans and devoted soccer fans have a lot in common. Both enjoy low-scoring, strategic games and have to fend off complaints that their sports are boring.

And as for American football, a typical NFL score is 24-17. That's only four scores for the winning team and three scores for the losing team. The scores only look higher because of the point system.

[LostinVA]

139. If you understand the nuances of the game, that "running around" is

very exciting. If you don;'t like it, you don;t like it (I hate car racing).... but the slam on the game and the fans is a bit of a mystery to me. I grew up near Philly, and the Philadelphia fans for any sport were (and are) as bad as any lager lout soccer fan in London.

[dysfunctional press]

93. non-stop and unpredictable?

give me a break...baseball is the only spectator sport that's more boring than soccer.

[burythehatchet]

94. Baseball and soccer are

the two most artistic sports I have experienced. What one person may find boring may appeal to others who view it from a mindful perspective. What one person finds exciting, such as stuffing a basketball through a hoop, others may find comical in terms of sport.

[dysfunctional press]

123. baseball and soccer...artistic?

i just don't see it. the main purpose of soccer, as far as i can derive- is to have something for all the kids to do that it tires them out, and burns some energy so that they can sleep at night, and not be a bother to the folks.

personally tho, i don't follow ANY sports- to me they're ALL pretty much a complete waste of my time. however- being from chicago, and a little younger and more foolish at the time, i did follow the bulls thru the split eras of Michael & the Jordanaires...and the way they played the game,it was a LOT more than just "stuffing a basketball through a hoop"...NOTHING in soccer and/or baseball and/or just about any sport you could mention could even come CLOSE to the "artistry" that michael brought to the hardwood (well..maybe Pele). and i'm not even a basketball fan.

[OhioNerd]

102. That's not only snobbish, it's silly.

That's not only snobbish, it's silly.

American Football developed long before modern Tele-Culture and TV commercials and it's roots go back before TV even existed.

I know this is an odd concept, but do you think it's possible that American audiences simply liked "Football" better than "Soccer"?

[Sterling]

110. It's pretty boring to watch IMHO

I love playing it, but like baseball I think watching it is very tedious.

[msongs]

20. hogwash

to say people who do not care for soccer are racists tells us a lot about you, but not much about people who care or don't care for soccer.

so to quote you, "let's be honest here..": billions of people are not interested in soccer for many reasons, such as, it's boring to some people, those people don't care about sports at all anyway, they have lives that do not revolve around athletes, they prefer other physical activies, etc.

lots of reasons having nothing to with them having "closed minds" or being "closet racists".

but don't let facts stand in the way of your rampant stereotyping, eh :_)

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[ChairmanAgnostic]

24. If you can't see the sarcasm in my post, i'd suggest an occulist.

[acmavm]

27. I couldn't read any sarcasm. It just sounded like you were insinuating

that anyone who didn't like soccer was one rung below an orang in the primate hierarchy. Racists, and all that.

[ClintonTyree]

35. I didn't see any attempt at sarcasm there either.....

there IS a :sarcasm: emoticon. I guess we truly ignorant racists have to be told when you're being sarcastic. :shrug:

[OhioNerd]

104. I call BS.

I call BS.

There wasn't any sarcasm in your post to see.

[pa28]

28. Major jealousy here.

Have fun and know many of us back home will be glued to the T.V. at strange hours!

[Kellanved]

77. yup

Count me in the "jealous" department. I will be in BErlin, but ticketless. Maybe I'll visit the "virtual" Stadium at the Reichstag, but it won't be the same.



:hi:

[brentspeak]

29. People who don't like soccer are "racists"? Maybe you should talk to

soccer fans in Europe about that:

Beasley experiences racism firsthand

Updated: April 30, 2006
Associated Press

EINDHOVEN, Netherlands -- DaMarcus Beasley knows what it's like to be an American soccer player in Europe -- especially a black American soccer player.

"When I got here, people would do the monkey noises and chants and stuff like that," he said. "I just kind of laugh it off."

For him, racism is not some far-off concept.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=366433&cc=5901

[ChairmanAgnostic]

44. I do. Often. Yes, skin heads from UK make trouble

Yes neonazis from Germany make trouble.
Yes, Paraguay and Uruguay fought a war because of an officiating mistake
Yes, it raises emotions real high.

But there is a mindset in pro sports writers and some so-called sports fans. Baseball, football and the NBA are their life's blood. Good for them. they can have it.
But can anyone deny that there is a tint of racism in the dislike of soccer? "Damned mexicanians and nigrahs play that sissy sport" - this I have heard precisely in those terms in Atlanta. I've heard similar in Texas. And I have heard worse in Chicago. Yes, immigrants love the game. It takes no steroids, it does not require you to screw up your body for life just to make the team. It requires graces, speed, teamwork, ballet, and trickery. It requires a player to do more with their foot than to stick it in their mouth. watching a defensive off-side trap is a thing of beauty. Watching a scissor's kick, and the resulting jumping save makes the heart pound.
Boring? Low scoring? talk about a programmed response to TV advertising. If you check out any major sports game on TV, if there is a score, it is always followed by an ad. Always. Except for NBA. NBA used to be defense, more defense and creative ways to score. Today, it is boring as hell. If they raised the basket 2 feet. . . .

I submit, without insult, that if someone took the time to understasd the game, and watched a professional team like Arsenal, or Man U or some of the French, Brazilian or Italian teams play, they would see the sport for what it is. US soccer is improving, but is not quite there. it is getting closer every day. Even better, seeing the game live gives you an understanding of how 11 guys work together.

Beasley is great. That man is so fast that it seems as though his transmission has an extra two forward gears. I've seen huge players beat on him and deliberately foul him to harm, just to get his attention. But as small as he is, he is also tough. A good, solid and entertaining player.

[brentspeak]

45. Beasley's talking about DUTCH fans

Your average Johanns drunk on Heinekan, behaving uglier than American fans.

[bennywhale]

51. "Skinheads from the UK make trouble." Sorry where are you from

the 1970s?

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bennywhale]

89. I'm from the UK, and have been going to football since i

was 8 years old. In fact i'm going to St James' park in about 3 hours to watch Newcastle v Chelsea. You say that last season you saw skinheads who 'like to disrupt'. I'm sorry but this isn't true. There are hooligans and casuals yes, but the skinhead culture has vanished from football. In fact it was a very short lived thing, its just lazy media reporters and commentators who stuck with it long after it had been replaced by casuals.

They certainly do separate the fans and have done since the 60s, and occasionally if there are opposing fans in the 'wrong' end there may be trouble, but the main reason is for the atmosphere. Grouping fans of the same team in the one area ensures the culture of rivalry and song and solidarity amongst sets of fans.

You possibly misunderstood the aggressive white hot atmosphere for something more serious, as the atmosphere in a football ground is unique, something not found in American sports stadiums.

Trouble, when it does occur is often highly organised between opposing crews who meet well away from the ground to avoid arrest. They are morons and are a tiny minority. The large scale disturbances that are associated with football have not occurred since the early 90s, in fact the last major pitch invasion i can remember was in 1991 Newcastle v Sunderland. There are exceptions to this obviously, but tired, unimaginative, cliched statements about football supporters have become quite boring. Being misinformed is probably not your fault but it would be wiser to really find out the truth rather than speculate with stereotypes.

[lakercub]

56. Your racism crap

is utterly absurd. European soccer is MUCH whiter than the NBA. If we didn't like soccer because we were racist, we would have given up baseball, basketball, and football years ago. The NBA is predominantly African-American and it kicks soccer's ass in this country. You need to completely rethink your racism nonsense. You are just dead wrong and the facts show it. If we soccer-haters are so racist, how come the lily-white NHL under performs the other three big pro leagues in this country in terms of attendance, box office, and overall interest?

The reason I hate soccer is that I find it boring beyond belief. I have forced myself to sit through games because I consider myself a huge sports fan. But I find soccer unwatchable. All that running around without ever accomplishing anything is silly. It is true that soccer is almost non-stop action. But it is also non-stop non-productive action. Then when you add things like "injury time" so no one really knows when the game ends and an unexplainable offsides rule the whole thing becomes a farce (my theory on offsides in soccer -- if there is even the hint of a threat to score, offsides will be called). Most of the real action in soccer takes place in the stands where the hooligans shame an already depressing sport. Yuck.

A modest example of why I hate soccer... #3 passes to #7, #7 great pass to number #6 at midfield, what amazing ball-handling skills #6 possesses and #7 is one of the best passing defensemen in the world. WHAT A GREAT SET UP to #5 he is moving up the right side HE IS IN GREAT POSITION!!! Centers to number #9 AND!!! AND !!!! AND !!!!!....never mind the other team has the ball. <--90 minutes of this? Thank you, no. In fact in 90 minutes the shots on goal number is usually ridiculously small for all that "action." Some people don't consider soccer a sport. They are wong. Soccer is a sport, just not a very entertaining one.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

61. well, good taste is not a common attribute. Obviously.

NBA viewership has been falling every year. It sucks, it is boring and it lost whatever majesty and "sport" years ago.

How is it absurd to report and repeat what I hear? Unless the message happens to include you? Sensitive, are we?

By the way, no announcer EVER uses numbers in describing a game. I am glad you find it unwatchable. I'd hate to find myself sitting next to you during a game.

[lakercub]

63. hmmm

"NBA viewership has been falling every year. It sucks, it is boring and it lost whatever majesty and "sport" years ago. "

NBA viewership was also down in the 70s...and roared back. It will be fine.

"How is it absurd to report and repeat what I hear? Unless the message happens to include you? Sensitive, are we? "

What are you talking about?

"By the way, no announcer EVER uses numbers in describing a game. I am glad you find it unwatchable. I'd hate to find myself sitting next to you during a game."

I used the numbers as a general example. Substitute Donovan, Beckham, Ronaldo, et. al. wherever you like. And have no fear, you will never be trapped next to me watching a game. My grass is growing, and I'd hate to miss a minute of the riveting action.

[lakercub]

64. I also missed

the spot where you defended your ridiculous argument that non-soccer fans don't like it because of race. I believe I gave some examples to show that argument was 99% nonsense.

[bennywhale]

90. America is the only country with this loathing for the

beautiful game, why do you think that is? I have a theory based loosely on lack of statistics and numbers and points to look at, but its a rather undeveloped theory. Do you have any thoughts?

I am in love with football, but i'm English so have to be really. Football is also about much more than the game its a very tribal thing, and paradoxically very much about solidarity. The atmosphere in football grounds in unrivaled in any other sport, the culture of song and chanting creates a white hot arena which is part of the pleasure itself.

As for the game you need to understand the real subtleties of its beauty. The pleasure comes not just in actually scoring (although when we do score its relatively rare compared with other sports so the crowd goes absolutely wild, which is something Else unique to football) its the beauty of the flowing battle trying different moves, probing down each wing breaking away, putting quick passes together, and when the other teams defence is unlocked for a goal, as i said, there is no better feeling.

As for the racism argument, i agree with you. Also some european nations have a problem with fascism on the terraces and are highly racist, particularly Italian fans. The fascist hooligans there are the 'ultras', and an example of their kindness i remember is they made a banner in memory of Argan, a Serbian war criminal.

I think the point about racism is better explained as xenophobia and of a view of American uniqueness. Football or soccer is viewed as a foreigners sport and un american which is why i believe many people are reluctant to play it or like it. And also the entire world plays it and loves it, and i think a kind of reluctance to actually be part of that community wholeheartedly that is 'The World' also plays a part in some reluctance to embrace the sport, a kind of subconscious isolationism.

I'm happy to be corrected.

[Igel]

98. It's loathing?

Do the US and France loathe cricket? Does India loathe jai-alai? And how about league bowling?

I never liked football, and I never liked soccer. Lacrosse, I rather enjoyed, but apparently the English and the rest of the world loathe it--after all, they they don't play it, and it must be available on some obscure channel. If not, the instructions are on the web. Since it's derived from a Native American sport, well, we can easily infer that the reasons for the loathing are racist and xenophobic. :sarcasm:

OK, enough of the absurdly foolish name-calling and assumption of the worst on the part of others. One common sense explanation that it just doesn't fit in--with a few sports already having laid claim adherents, there aren't all that many aficionados with loyalties waiting to be claimed, can't be a possible excuse. Soccer's competing with other team sports, football, basketball, and baseball, and the 'loathing' is 'not prefering to switch sports preferences'. Lacrosse is in the same fix. It would be like introducing Zam-zam cola into the US--it would be competing with established brands.

Not being loony soccer fans isn't part of American exceptionalism or uniqueness; it's simply not caring. Americans like what they like, frequently--not always--without regard to what others like. The country's less amenable to peer pressure and doing things simply because people in other countries do them; perhaps because we have enough internal peer-pressure going on, perhaps because we like our own cultural practices, perhaps for neither of those reasons. When I lived in a small country, I was astonished at what seemed like a provincial, small-town attitude: if the Germans and Americans did it, the locals--even in the capital city--wanted to do it. It struck me as a foolish attitude, just as it strikes me as foolish when Americans want to copy others. Everybody values diversity, even when of a trivial nature, just not their own or others unless it's an approved type. Then it's strictly school-of-fish behavior.

[Sterling]

115. Soccer is old school, in the US we have more modern sports

that are more to our taste, what's the fucking problem with that? No one is trying to take soccer away from you, are they? Why is it so important Americans be as ape shit over soccer as u are. And if we are not we are racist, serious get a freakin life already.

[President Kerry]

128. I am "ape shit" about soccer, and I am an American.

Speak for yourself! Don't throw that uncalled for "we" in there.

[lakercub]

130. You know what he meant

Now you are just being semantic. You like soccer...we get it. Good for you. The fact of the matter is that most of America doesn't care about soccer...that is the "we" the poster is referring to. And in that context, he is perfectly right to say we.

No one said you can't like soccer, but it is amazing that you seem to be offended when others don't like it.

[President Kerry]

131. what offends me is when people take themselves and their tastes as

representative of an entire country, and a diverse one at that. Smacks of "the middle America is the real America" freeper bullshit. I do take offense to the attack on the sport, primarily because it's not what the thread is about, and somebody took the time to denigrate soccer, making a point that has nothing to do with the OP.

As for the racism argument, I'll concede that it was more a matter of misunderstanding than anything. It's not the "whites only" kind of racism, it's just xenophobia, which has been well explained by Bennywhale.

Oh yeah, Offside is the situation when there is only one defensive player (usually the goalkeeper) between the attacker in possession of the ball and the opposing goal. Offside is in place to make scoring more difficult.

Have a good day.

[lakercub]

132. Thank you for the definition

Although I would think making scoring more difficult than it already is actually would hurt the game...but that is just my opinion.

The attacks on soccer may not have come up (as much) if the racism thing hadn't been thrown out there. And, even the xenophobia argument has been countered as well. The problem is the soccer fans are trying to come up with reasons why the majority of Americans don't care about soccer. But racism, xenophobia, et. al, most likely ain't it. Most Americans, including me, just find the game dull. You don't need racism or xenophobia to explain that...they just don't like it...let them not like it in peace. Just don't come up with reasons to denigrate non-soccer fans who don't happen to like your sport. It's silly. If we don't like it, we don't like it...it's not some sinister plot to take down poor nations. Most of us just find it dull...don't read anything else into it.

The difference between us referring to "most Americans" and the freeper arguments are that most polls and the absolute inability of soccer to catch on in the USA speaks to the American apathy to the sport. The freepers, however, if they didn't like it, would protest it and try to have it banned. Those of us at DU who don't like it just don't like it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[LostinVA]

140. Me too

[lakercub]

122. As for enjoying the sport

and its beauty...you are welcome to it. You find a beauty in it that I do not. Certainly that is one opinion versus another and yours is just as valid as mine. You understand soccer very well...I probably don't. You like it, I don't. All perfectly reasonable. The racism thing is what sets me off. There is no racism involved in disliking soccer (or, if there is, it also effects basketball). The xenophobia thing is a little more interesting but I think the evidence is still against it.

The NBA for years was a white man's game...then it became a black man's game. Not is a white man's game, a black man's game, and an incredibly European game. Look at the Spurs (who I hate, but I'm a very depressed Laker fan today). They have a black frenchman in Tony Parker, an Argentinian (admittedly not European but I think the premise holds) in Manu Ginobili, and an Eastern European center named Nesterovic. Hell even the Lakers have Ronny Turiaf. This season Turiaf became a fan favorite in LA in about 10 seconds. They already love him.

When European players started coming to play in the NBA, there was some apprehension (mainly because Europe didn't teach defense :)). But players like Drazen Petrovic, Vlade Divac, and Dino Radja started changing perceptions....and quite quickly. Vlade was beloved in Sacramento (although his floppong drove me nuts) as was Peja Stojakavic (sp?). Boris Diaw, another black Frenchman is getting to be popular in Phoenix, and the Mavericks were the UN of basketball for years and their fans loved it.

This argument doesn't totally win for me, as it is not the acceptance of a European game, but, rather, European players I have demonstrated. But I see others differences...many European sports are long, time-consuming events. Cricket can take forever, and, like I said earlier, soccer takes a long time for anything to happen. American culture tends to like more instantaneous results....which is not a bad thing, just different. In fact, baseball has declined over the last few years partially based on a belief that it is also too slow-moving and dull (I love baseball, but it can be slow). Of course the strike and steroids don't help.

One sport that is a great example of slow US acceptance is Cycling. Most Americans can ride a bike, but most don't understand pro cycling. However, Lance Armstrong made a huge dent in American culture with his Tour de France wins. I doubt cycling will ever be as popular over here as it is in Europe, but it is growing here. I personally started watching a few years ago and now I'm hooked. Right after I submit this message I have to go check out today's Giro d' Italia results (GO PAOLO!!!). But I also would have to admit that cycling has some incredibly slow points...a 250 km flat stage race just isn't going to be a thrill a minute. European Sports are characterized by this downtime more than American sports...it is a cultural thing. So I don't see anything as xenophobic...just a difference in culture. England and the US have much in common...except sports. Not xenophobia, just different pleasures.

[President Kerry]

127. spot on! n/t

[President Kerry]

126. amazingly ignorant..

First off, it's an opinion, and not an educated one. Do you know what an off-side is? It's a very clever defensive device, that the defensive team occasionally gets burned on.. Secondly, as someone mentioned upthread, the action build up to culminate in a goal. Because it is so difficult to achieve, and so much work goes into scoring, it is exceptional event that is quite emotional.
As for racism, I think the poster meant ethnocentrism, and not racism per se. I've read an article in the Time magazine by Charles Krauthammer (a well-known rightwinger) that made me cringe. He put down football, and laughed off the World Cup as an event where two countries, that only would be familiar to the average US spectator if the US went to war with them, might play each other. Gets a perfect 10 on the offensive scale, and goes to support the poster's point.

If you don't feel the sport, it's fine, but don't insult a sport you not only don't understand but have no desire to understand.

[lakercub]

129. Oh look...

a reading comprehension problem. The post I was responding to made the point that people do not like soccer BECAUSE of racism. I was disputing that. I pointed out why I don't like soccer, and that is has nothing to do with racism or euro-centrism. Further, if you had taken the time to read posts 63, 64, and 122 you might have realized that, but you were too busy being smug. I have pointed out that I don't understand the love behind soccer...I have also pointed out that I have no problem if other people love it. It's just not for me...and I said why. Your opinion of my reasons is utterly useless, the only reason I posted my opinion is to dispute the racism opinion, but that's where reading comprehension comes in. Oh by the way, you asked me if I know what offsides is, but then you didn't tell me WHAT it is. Pretty typical of the offsides I've seen called.

[brentspeak]

133. The poster wasn't talking about "ethnocentrism"

Whatever that vague, pretentious term means. He said "racism" because he meant "racism".

Anyway, the DaMarcus Beasley article demonstrated that it's the Europeans who've got the bigger racism problem -- at least when it comes to soccer.

I'm an American who's a huge soccer fan. But I personally don't look at it as a "beautiful" sport - just a sport. I also insist -- speaking for no one else -- on myself calling the sport "soccer" . Not because it shouldn't be called "football" (though gridiron football is perfectly justified to call itself "football", too), but because "soccer" is the name I've grown up with, just as Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans and Jamaicans have grown up with that name. (I have no problem with you calling the sport "football", btw.)

My experience has been that most Americans who don't like soccer don't like it simply because they don't like the sport itself, not because of any "ethnocentrism". True, the media Rush Limbaughs and the Rush Limbaugh-type sports commentators often make fun of soccer, calling it a "foreign" sport, implying that it's a "socialist" sport (I have no idea where they came up with that idea. Pulled it out of their rear-ends, I guess). But the existence of Major League Soccer proves the American public views soccer as a legitimate, "non-foreign" sport.

[Sterling]

111. You act as though they never show soccer on TV, WTF?

You don't seem to understand how TV works. And no I am not a racist and soccer bores the shit out of me, go figure.

[AndyTiedye]

38. I Am an Equal-Opportunity Disdainer of Team Sports

Most American adults are not interested in soccer because they never played it as kids.

This is changing, since now soccer is the sport every mother wants their kids to play
(hence the term "soccer mom") instead of football (which is perceived as being too rough).
This will certainly increase the popularity of soccer as those kids grow up.

That said, the behaviour of soccer fans in some other countries is something I hope we can avoid.
Our own football fans (and even hockey fans) are downright peaceful by comparison.

In my case, playing a sport as a kid did not translate into much interest in watching the sport as an adult.
I had to spend so much time on the bench watching other people play that I have felt little desire to do so since then.

I am an equal-opportunity disdainer when it comes to sports.

[Divernan]

52. 2 of my kids have tickets to 3 games. Which ones are you going to?

My 2 daughters both played soccer; 1 in high school, and the other for the University College Dublin Ladies' Team. They'll be in Germany for 2 weeks and have tickets for US v. Czeck Republic; Poland v. Costa Rica and US v. Ghana. The "family" team is the Tottenham Hotspurs (The Spurs). I find it a much more interesting sport to watch than baseball, basketball or football. The professional players are in incredible physical shape and their feats on the field are almost unbelievable at times. The US does not have any sporting event in which a national team represents the country's pride as is the case in the rest of the world for the World Cup. I was in Istanbul shortly after the fracas between two Swiss and Turkish teams. I could easily start a conversation with anyone by asking them about what had happened and what the outcome might be re penalties. Anyone who finds soccer boring simply doesn't understand the complexities of the game.
I am concerned about the Costa Rica/Poland game re safety.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2167157,00.html


Polish hooligan army to invade World Cup
From Roger Boyes in Poznan



A HARD core of violent Polish fans led by neo-Nazis is emerging as the biggest hooligan threat to the World Cup, displacing the traditional troublemakers from England and the Netherlands.
“It will be the battle for Berlin,” Andrzej said, with a crooked, toothy grin. Clasping a can of beer and singing obscene anthems, he is one of the estimated 250,000 Polish supporters who will be travelling to Germany next month, with or without a ticket.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

106. yep

"I view disdain for soccer to be based in freeper like antagonism, racism and lack of knowledge and education. "

let's add nationalism too.

[BuddhaGirl]

12. I always watch the World Cup - men's and women's

so yes, here's another American football fan - the REAL football :D

[Amonester]

46. Go Miami FC Go!! ;-)

http://www.uslfans.com/

[RagingInMiami]

48. That should be fun to watch.

They're playing in a stadium about a mile from where I live and they've signed Brazilian superstar Romario.

[Amonester]

59. Ladies & Gays here really get shivers watching the players...

play on the field (Montreal Impact) ;-)

These dudes really are in "fitty-top-shape," I can tell you that! :thumbsup:

[peacebuzzard]

69. Romario???

In Miami????Is that where he went???
After the Brazil win in 1994, when him and Zico won against Italy in the last game by penalty, I jumped up & down in my sweaty standing position and danced "samba". It was a great moment.
Baggio (Italy) had lost a penalty shot and handed the win on a platter to Brazil, with Romario and Zico both scoring!

He has had a low profile for many years, not really able to stay with any one team in Brazil. Most of his glory days are gone (he is up there in years) but he does love the sport.
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/contisoccerworld/themes/03_2006_fifa_world_cup/04_wm_stars/04_wmstar_94_romario_en.html

[KDLarsen]

112. Yup, it's true alright

The legend is that he won't stop playing football until he scores his 1000th goal, with official FIFA figures putting him just beyond 950 goals. He's signed to Miami F.C. but is apparently imjured at the moment.

[tkmorris]

60. Millions of us

What's your point?

[Divine Discontent]

65. that's a rather

judgemental comment by Gandhi!

as if the people that share his views are any better than Christians as a whole? And I'm not talking AMERICAN right-wing Bush-Kool-Aid gulping Christians, I mean worldwide.

I like his "an eye for an eye leaves the world blind" quote... that one rocks.

I get his point with that comment, but it still is judgemental, as ALL of God's children fall short, not just the Christians...

[peacebuzzard]

67. I look forward to this event every 4 years.....

however, I agree it is not that popular in this country.
Maybe, one day....when a U.S. soccer superstar (or two or three super players) takes the U.S. to the World Cup Final.

[Blue_Tires]

68. i care

but i pull for Brazil, not the USA

but back to the original point, whether or not the flag is on the bus is a nonissue

[RagingInMiami]

73. The real issue is why there is so much hate out there for Americans

[Blue_Tires]

74. i've got an idea!

let the USA share a bus with Iran! Problem solved!:rofl: :spray:

[MikeNearMcChord]

70. I am a big(American) football fan

but I like watching futbolB-). I like to watch the Fox Soccer Channel, not much into Basketball or Baseball, at least until the playoffs. The World Cup is one big event, and very enjoyable to see. I was blessed to live in the SF Bay Area when they hosted one of the World Cup Matches, the Brazilians make this game an art and a party(as other nations do to). As for the flag fiasco it is pathetic, they ought to learn from the Israelis, who stood tall after the Munich Massacre and raised their flag, telling the terrorists, These colors don't run.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

75. saw the US opener in Chicago.

Everyone roundly booed Clinton, and cheered when the opening ceremony had a singer who was not warned about a stupid cloth covering a hole, and fell in. Yet, he barely missed a word, and continued on beautifully to the end. (He needed help getting off stage, though).

Every seat in soldier's field (the old one) was filled. People from every walk of life, from every country, all getting together on a nice warm, sunny day, and watching superb sport.

What impresses me is just how well refs do in this game. They must have eyes in the back of their heads. We complain (Or I do) when they give my team a yellow or don't give one when I think we dived properly, but overall, especially at the WC level, they really do great work and are pretty damned fair.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

103. you're kidding right. I've been waiting for this shit for 4 years. n/t

[LostinVA]

114. Me -- several of my friends -- Americans all

[bdamomma]

142. The World Cup is a big event in other parts of the world

maybe not in the US but in other parts of world it is a big deal.

[rocktivity]

2. Having a U.S. flag on the bus will save them from attack

but NOT having a U.S. flag on their bus WON'T?

:crazy:
rocknation

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. Duh. Hey, let's look only for the bus that has no flag on the way to

the stadium.

[madame defarge]

3. Won't it be kinda obvious it's the US bus...

because it's the ONLY one without a flag?

[Autonomy]

5. The US team's bus will have a Swiss flag on it....

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

11. ...and then Al Qaeda will bomb the REAL Swiss. Switzerland is in the Cup.

[Kellanved]

78. There are more than 32 busses on German streets

Posted this before: this is the US Bus

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,620881,00.jpg


and the others:
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,620806,00.jpg


Just plain idiocy, if you ask me. The security measures are downright scary; no way the bus will actually be endangered - painted or not. This is either paranoia or spin.

[sadiesworld]

88. They probably just don't want anything to interfere with the Hyundai logo.

lol

[Orsino]

6. "These Colors Rarely Run"

New national slogan!

[Cooley Hurd]

9. *snarf!*

:rofl:

[stevedeshazer]

17. That sums it up perfectly

Cut and run in the most visible event in the world. What a shame.

Yeah, I used to play football. The REAL football. The one the other 96% of the world recognizes.

Jeez, do we look stupid or what?

[brentspeak]

37. Doesn't the US recognize soccer?

We hosted the WC 12 years ago, and now have Major League Soccer (which I hope lasts).

[genieroze]

49. How about these colors always run away, terra, terra. terra.

[RayOfHope]

7. Misplaced anger. If fans want to be pissed off,

they should be pissed off at * for bolstering hatred of America and 'our freedoms'.

[shain from kane]

14. Waving the flag of surrender. n/t

[Harper_is_Bush]

15. nt of people in polls insisted that the Stars and Stripes go on bus"

Let those people ride in the bus!

[MGKrebs]

31. That's what I say too!

[AndyTiedye]

41. They Can Ride the DECOY Bus

make the real team bus as anonymous as possible.

[uppityperson]

16. This is too funny, too pathetic.

Thanks Mr.bush!

[Homer Wells]

18. Canadas former Prime Minister offered

to supply us with a Canadian flag to use on our bus, if we wanted to pretend we were Canadians!!!
Saw it on Mahers show last night!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :hide:

[KamaAina]

30. Nah, it'd never work

Canada is such a poor footballing nation that no terrorist worth his C-4 would ever believe they were in the Cup. I'd suggest they draw from their substantial immigrant population to build a decent side, but that'd only make it tougher in our qualifying group :P

[azurnoir]

21. Could this be simply a way

of using *'s terra' meme to embarrass the US, you can be here but, we don't want your flag.

[JackintheGreen]

26. We don't need any help to embarrass ourselves

thank you very much

[951-Riverside]

33. So they'll just look for the plain bus

Who came up with this plan?
Bush?

[Robbien]

34. Where did they get that 95% poll number?

I've rarely seen a poll where 95% all respond one way.

Nice of them to build a controversy around some unnamed poll.

[brentspeak]

39. I don't think there was a poll

Somebody made this story up.

[brentspeak]

36. This controversy is the last thing the US' men's team needs

The team has enough pressure trying to prove that their 2002 WC performance wasn't a fluke. It would have been a whole lot smarter simply NOT to announce the change in bus decorations in the first place.

[judaspriestess]

42. damned if you do and damned if you don't

thank you * and co. terrorist will still be able to decifer what bus is the Americans. the ONE and only bus without a flag.

I love soccer got really hooked with the last world cup. I saw Boca play in Argentina last November it was great.

Here is another example of our close minded mentality. We are one if not the only country who does not follow soccer more closely. Its the sport of the world. I guess its not violent enough.
what I would give to be in germany for the world cup.

[daleo]

43. I suspect it has nothing to do with Al Queda

More likely, there is a fear that ordinary Germans will give the finger to the bus, since Bush has caused U.S. prestige to fall so far in the world.

[Tempest]

47. You're right, it has nothing to do with Al Qaeda

Intial reports on not having the flag on the side of the bus gave the reason that officials feared hostile reactions by regular citizens.

The funny part is, American officials broadcasted to the world that the bus would be painted blue with no flag. That pretty much makes it easy to know which bus is the American one.

[bennywhale]

53. You're right i think. Its more likely to get bricked than bombed.

That will be the woryy.

[Kellanved]

79. No, that's rather unlikely

Neither the finger, nor a brick, nor anything. THe general sentiment is pretty pro-American lately. It may be different with some minorities, but generally the US sqad is not more likely to get the finger than any other team.

Also it's not like any team bus will be unguarded or anything; the security measures are extremely tight.

[Fight_n_back]

55. So they should aim for the bus with no flag

If everyone has a flag except your TARGET then it shouldn't be hard for you to find the target.

The US team should use someone elses flag, someone that wouldn't cause controversy like Camaroon or maybe change the flag each time or have several buses.


Of course, if AL Queda wanted to find the US team's bus all they would need is a publicly posted schedule but then Im not a terrorism expert like Porter Goss or Michael Chertoff.

[cliss]

57. The State Department is now issuing warnings

along with American passports. There is a list of warnings written by Karen Hughes. Americans are now supposed to take a very low profile. We are not supposed to divulge our "American-ness".

If foreigners criticize Bush, we are supposed to disagree. but not loudly. We are supposed to get away from the situation, and "Agree to disagree" with them.

THIS is the reason why I got 3 foreign passports for my teenage kids who are traveling around Europe.

[Toucano]

87. You've got to be joking!

OMG, google tells me you're not joking! But it wasn't "written by Karen Hughes". That's a relief.

[BooScout]

137. WTF?

"If foreigners criticize Bush, we are supposed to disagree. but not loudly. We are supposed to get away from the situation, and "Agree to disagree" with them."

BS.....if someone criticises Bush, the first thing I do is agree with them.........then we grab a pint or two and sit down and become friends.

Who gets paid for sitting on their ass and thinking this stuff up anyway???

[cliss]

149. Randi Rhodes talked about this on her radio

program about 2 weeks ago. She said the exact same thing as you...you've got to be kidding me. If someone criticizes Bush, I'll agree with them. In fact, I'll point out some things that they didn't know.

I think the point here is most Americans are really, really nice people. It's just Bush that they hate. And so do we.

[Rex]

58. Then the terrorists have won, we really do live in a state

of fear and terror. I can hear Cheney and Benny clinking champaign glasses from here! Mission accomplished! :(

[Divine Discontent]

66. of course "we" do

my mother is constantly freaking out when she sees Arabs. Bush/Cheney/Rove have manipulated our American psyche as a whole into a freak show... how embarrassing.

[Rex]

72. The White House IS a freak show!

They should make it into a new reality TV show. Benny could stop by every now and then and go "booga booga", then hit a gong.

[freefall]

86. Most Americans don't really understand the depth of hatred for us

around the world. This is in large part due to the lack of reporting on the issue in our media. Based on my understanding of how we are viewed in the rest of the world, I don't think it is fair to put the athletes in the position of unarmed combatants which is essentially what they become if the bus has the flag on it. It is unfortunate that the move is necessary but it would be even more unfortunate to have a bunch of dead athletes.

Peace,

freefall

[Public_Hazard]

92. The media

The "liberal" media has been largely trained to be "polite" and "appropriate" or in other words, don't question the government. Those who are brave enough to report the truth end up getting fired. Putting athletes up as martyrs would not be a good idea on any day, because it would be the Munich Olympics all over again, except a little less tragic for the rest of the world.

[YankeyMCC]

80. This is shameful

* policies have created a situation where instead of being safer, instead of garnering confidence and support of the people and nations around us, we have to 'hide' our nationality.

[adriennui]

83. has anyone heard of SOCCER MOMS?

whatever you want to call it, not all americans are primitives. soccer is very popular out here in the suburban boonies. have fun and enjoy the game.

[OhioNerd]

107. So people who are not into soccer are primitives?

So people who are not into soccer are primitives? The level of elitist nonsense on this thread is shocking.

[adriennui]

108. read the context

folks who rant about soccer being a sissy game and not being as fabulous as football are a bit primitive in their world-view.
to be honest, i'm bored by sports but i'm nauseated by american football. everything about it, from the violence, half-naked cheerleaders and the million dollar per 60 sec commercials encapsulate everything that is tacky about the US.
i also believe that people who are obsessed with sports have no life.
so there.

[OhioNerd]

117. You have a right to your opinion. However...

You have a right to your opinion. However, my obligation to respect your right to HAVE an opinion does not carry with it a corrolary obligation to pretend that it is not elitist and/or snobbish.

[adriennui]

125. i don't care

nowadays, being an elitist is being anti- everything this manbeast of a president and the republican party represent.

[OhioNerd]

135. Manbeast...? LOL.

Two words darlin'... Dee & Caff :7

[brentspeak]

145. You'll have to point out where soccer was called a "sissy" game

on this particular board.

[Sterling]

116. I am getting really sick of the anti american bullshit here at DU

Seriously, I love this country and it's people. Obviously we have our problems but we aren't a bunch of idiots and just because soccer is not the # sport here does not make us racist or uncultured. I have not been this disappointed in the people on this site in an extremely long time.

[young_at_heart]

84. I guess this means we're special

All the other countries have no problem.....just us. How come?

[ny_liberal]

85. Nike's US Soccer "Don't Tread On Me" logo

[Public_Hazard]

91. The old days

I weep for the times when showing the American flag was something you could be proud of. A symbol of strength and freedom, not ignorance, hate, greed, and a terrorist magnet. Ah, were we but more foresighted. Oh well, just got to work on improvement.

[Sterling]

118. You still should be proud of your country.

Your fucking lucky as shit to be part of it. Seriously people get a fucking clue. Do you really hate yourselves and your country that much. We have had shitty leaders before, we are still a great country. WTF is wrong with some of you people, you are as brainwashed as the fucking freepers, except in reverse.

[mia]

95. They don't call us "soccer moms' for nothin'.

Youth soccer is big in South Florida. We went to multiple soccer games every weekend during the season.

In the late 70's my daughter's team came in second in the region, losing to North Texas. Another daughter won a partial soccer scholarship to college. My son played soccer for the Army when he was stationed in Japan.



http://www.soccerplate.com/

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

99. Hey!

You guys have hijacked the thread. It's not about racist actions or whatever. It about the fact someone has the bright idea to not paint the US flag on a bus.
So all the other busses will be painted but the bus for US athletes won't.
Think whomever wants to inflict damage will be able to figure that out?

[BooScout]

136. There's going to be buses all over the city......not just team buses.

Riding thru town with a big USA flag on it would be like putting a big bullseye on the bus. It's not an unreasonable percaution. Germany already can't handle the security as it is. Half the freaking UK police force is headed over there for the games to assist.

[sweetheart]

113. cowards

stand up and be counted, nationality is not partisan, and a soccer
team is not the bush admin.

[Sterling]

119. I agree

If Bush can make you hate your own country you have some serious issues. If someone wants to discuss our fucked up policy or government that is understandable but what I see on this thread is a disdain for anything American in general, it is highly offensive.

[musiclawyer]

120. This thread had deteriorated

Leave football aside. You football haters, we know you hate football. We don't care. You football lovers, stop dignifying the attacks with responses. The issue is whether the flag should be on the bus. My opinion--absolutely. Any terrorist who wants to hit the USA team will try, regardless of the paint on the bus. I think the Germans have a much better handle on their security than we would. Go USA.

[Bushy Being Born]

121. If everyone else's bus is going to be sporting a flag,

it kind of defeats the intended purpose to be the only bus without...

[BooScout]

134. Oh for fucks sake....

The OP was about the US not being able to put their flag on the bus, NOT American Football is better than soccer. :eyes:

The decision by German officials is hardly surprising....what is surprising is that 95 % of those polled are so angry they want the team to paint display the flag anyway despite the idea of putting the team into physical peril for doing so. Someone please tell the idiots that this is a side effect of Bush meddling all over the fucking world and making Americans targets when traveling abroad.

Now back to all these other little arguments.....

All this racism BS is just that BS. Racism exists in every country, and yes sometimes spills over into sporting events. Ugly, but not on the whole an earth shattering event. In the end is mostly still about the game.

I like American Football. I like soccer. I even manage to like rugby sometimes. Baseball is pretty boring unless a record is being chased or a pennant race is on. Now cricket is BORING. (don't tell my husband I said that:evilgrin: )

I always wondered why professional soccer wasn't bigger in the States. It's not like it isn't played by most children on a manical basis all over the country. The advertising dismisal is a good argument, but seeing how Manchester United is merchandised across the UK and Europe it doesn't seem to add up.

[daleo]

138. If Al Queda could pull off 911

Don't you think they could find the bus with the American soccer team in it in Germany, flag or no flag?

[Tight_rope]

143. The bus will still stand out....Hell it will be the only one with no flag

symbol. How stupid can people get? :shrug: The US was big, bad and bold to go to war with Iraq, now they are afraid paint a fucking bus with the USA symbols. What a pathetic group of people we have become under this administration.

Hell might as well sit the tournaments out.

[WinkyDink]

144. "Okay, guys; aim at the bus without any flag!"

We are so pathetically craven, while trying to appear so brave and macho. It's always about US.