Some clerics call for killing Afghan Christian

[sabra]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11973510/

Some clerics call for killing Afghan Christian
Man on trial for converting from Islam; Bush, Rice weigh in on case

KABUL, Afghanistan - Senior Muslim clerics said Thursday that an Afghan man on trial for converting from Islam to Christianity should be killed regardless of whether a court decides to free him.

...

But four senior clerics interviewed by The Associated Press in their mosques in Kabul said Rahman deserved to be killed for his conversion.

"He is not crazy. He went in front of the media and confessed to being a Christian," said Hamidullah, chief cleric at Haji Yacob Mosque.

"The government is scared of the international community. But the people will kill him if he is freed."

[snooper2]

1. dumbassess

nt

[sattahipdeep]

2. Here in reality

:hi:

[Justitia]

3. But, but I keep hearing about this great "girls school" in Afghanistan!

Every Bushbot on TV this week keeps telling me all about their trip to Afghanistan and how great things are because some girls can go to this fantastic "girls school" there! So things must be good in Afghanistan - the media just doesn't report all the "good news", only the bad stuff!

:sarcasm:

[INDIA]

9. You're right

We should have left Afghanistan alone. It was much better off before BUSH got there!

[msongs]

4. what goes around comes around, eh?

as ye reap so shall ye show.

2000 years of doing this to people will come back to bite yer butt some day.

karma and all that.

hope the guy gets out ok and goes to Iraq where there is religious freedom thanks
to bushco.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/impeachbush.htm

[Mizmoon]

5. Last I heard one Christian was killed and three rescued

after being kidnapped while trying to help Muslim people. These Christians are totally opposed to Bush's war. But I guess that means nothing to you because in the 1470s someone decided to start an Inquisition and this is very relevant to today somehow.

[Coventina]

8. This guy is an Afghan himself. He was originally Muslim, but later

converted to Christianity.

You think that because his conscience/soul/whatever led him in another direction during his life he deserves to die?

Yikes.

[jahyarain]

39. msongs never said that he wanted the guy to die

and just for the record...it's the religions...ALL OF THEM...that are the biggest threat to us all. has been ever since their inceptions. peace

[Coventina]

41. Saying that this man is getting his karma is pretty much saying

he deserves to be executed for converting to Christianity.

Pretty cold-hearted in my book.

[Coventina]

6. This is the shit American soldiers are dying for!!

I'm sorry but this pisses me right off.

This guy is on trial by the "new" and "improved" Afghan government that we helped set in place!!!

:wtf:

This is the "democracy" we're supporting. Where picking the wrong religion means you are on trial for your life.

Fuck that shit.

[atreides1]

10. This is the Democracy that the Afghans chose

Remember those free elections where all Afghans voted, well this is what the results were. BushCo was warned that this could happen but they didn't care, and the soldiers kept dying.

This isn't a surprise, the Afghans were very open that their constitution and laws were to be based
on Sharia Law, not American concepts of law.

Why are American soldiers dying, they are dying so that Bush can show what a great liberator he is, nothing else.

[Coventina]

11. Then we need some fucking accountability. I remember Bushco saying that

the Afghans & Iraqis were all afire to have liberal democracies with human rights and freedom of choice.

What the hell is the difference between this shit and what the Taliban were doing? I don't see any improvement at all.

[Igel]

13. The reason that you don't see any improvement is

because there was a calculated decision to *not* disband the Afghan courts post-invasion. The majority of the judges are Taliban appointees.

This was quibbled with by some people--perhaps some here, I wasn't here at the time--but seriously controverted by few in the MSM. Most of the polemic against the decision I heard was on the decided right, NRO types. NYT and WaPo had mere quibbles, and called for maybe getting rid of a few judges.

The result was that some non-Taliban judges were appointed, swelling the bloated ranks of the Afghan court system even more. But only low-level judges were non-Taliban. Most were still Islamic jurists. There aren't really any judges trained in civil law in the country.

[MH1]

12. The criteria of "democracy"

consist of more than just "holding elections". To truly have democracy requires also a free press, and separation of church and state.

Somebody far more important and respected than me said that recently. Unfortunately I can't remember where I saw it so I can't attribute it - but I believe it is a critical aspect that BushCo's version of "democracy" likes to ignore.

Also, what BushCo likes to include in dmeocracy - that I would argue is NOT an essential component - is extreme private property rights. In other words, they believe that if you are lucky enough to inherit or otherwise find yourself "owning" a piece of property that turns out to hold immense mineral wealth, you have zero obligation to share that windfall with the rest of society. That is what they mean by "private property rights" - and that is what they include when they speak of "economic freedom" - and when they hail "democracy", their version cares most about "economic freedom", much less about individual freedom, and apparently little if at all about the prerequisites for individual freedom - freedom of knowledge and expression, and freedom to choose one's beliefs.

So they call Afghanistan a "democracy" because they hold elections and have privatized or are on their way to privatizing mineral wealth and creating other extreme "private property rights."

And someone who chooses to declare themself a Christian faces execution, in this "democracy".

All hail "democracy"!

:sarcasm:

[reichstag911]

7. How 'bout goin' after...

...some of our American "Christians?" Bush, Robertson, Falwell, Bennett, Dobson, Reed, Scalia,...

[Norquist Nemesis]

14. In other Good News today

......

[maddezmom]

15. kick

[eagler]

16. AFGHAN CLERICS DEMAND CONVERT BE KILLED

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060323/ap_on_re_as/afghan_christian_convert

[eagler]

17. I like how it tells about respecting the wishes

of a sovereign government.

[sharp_stick]

18. Fundies of all stripes

should be ridiculed. I don't care if they are muslim, christian or anything else. I totally despise fundamentalist wack jobs. These clerics should be put into a room with Patwah Robertson and his ilk, allowed to kill each other until one winner walks out and is accidently shot by somebody after quail.

[atreides1]

19. Hell of choice

Sit back and do nothing as a man's life is snuffed out because of his belief, or deal with the posibility of him being murdered by an angry population.

I think that BushCo will sit on their hands, and make tsk,tsk,tsk noises at a press conference after
this poor manis dead, but they won't do anything!!!!!

[wordpix2]

27. Let's see how much BushCo will fight for this man's freedom. These fundie

s of all types are totally whacked out, whether they be Muslim, Xtian or whatever.

[bluestateguy]

20. 300 American soldiers died to put that government in place

Swell.

[Coventina]

22. my sentiments exactly

meet the new boss, same as the old boss....

[benny05]

40. Yep

The man should be given exile if necessary, which is what proper intervention would do. But just like Hamass of Palenstine, Iran, Iraq, democracy to them isn't about being tolerant.

[wordpix2]

29. you are right but "doing something" shouldn't mean US bombing

which seldom works long term---it should be about Afghani govt. telling these fundies to give up the Xtian and let him go. These fundies are criminals just as some Xtian fundies are here in US, like those whackjobs who kill docotrs, nurses and patients at abortion clinics. The Afghan gov't needs to act and give the guy safe haven.

[kurth]

21. "Americans have not given their lives

so that Christians can be put to death," said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060323-123015-1691r.htm

---------------------------------------------------------------

What an interesting quagmire for the Chimp, huh?

[Coventina]

23. Guess what Tony? They have! And you support the smirk that sent them

So fucking deal with the blood on your own hands already you freak!!

[NYC Liberal]

24. So this is the democracy Bush has been pimping for 4 years, huh?

GREAT WORK!

[wordpix2]

30. this is also the big success that is US in Afghanistan---where is UBL?

[Igel]

25. Yes. We did Afghanistan on the cheap.

Great military victory; few ground troops. Yada-yada. Nobody wanted to wait to insert a few 100k Americans into the country and have them shot at.

Downside: Afghan court-system wasn't replaced. While the Constitution is ambiguous, the courts aren't. They're Islamic jurists, cut their teeth on traditional shari'a.

I haven't noticed the usual contingent of apologists claiming that shari'a has nothing to do with Islam (which is what they must say), or that this isn't a valid or traditional interpretation.

Islam needs a reformation. Church canon law used to be like this, when Xianity was bloodthirty and intolerant. The implication is self-evident.

[wordpix2]

31. "Afghanistan on the cheap" and "Islam needs a reformation"

US under Commmandant * is nothing but war on the cheap to increase privateers' profits (Halliburton, KBR, Carlyle Grp, Big Oil=BushCo). This is how it always works in business to make a lot of dough: cheap input, rich outpot.

If Islam needs a reformation, it is up to Muslims to do it, not us.

[IndianaGreen]

26. The only decent Aghan government was the Marxist one

Women were equal to men and were able to attend university, hold jobs, and were free of religious laws. But Noooooo! The US hated the Marxists and wanted to payback the Soviets for our Vietnam debacle, so a misguided Jimmy Carter started to support the religious wackos.

Women got the shaft ever since!

[ButterflyBlood]

36. Right, and that all makes up for the mass executions and toture chambers

and the fact there was no religious freedom at all, people of ALL religions were persecuted.

Don't get me wrong, certainly no Afghan government has ever been good and it certainly wasn't a good thing for the US to start backing those religious nut warlords. But Afghanistan was hardly a paradise then.

[killbotfactory]

28. Awesome...

Soviet Russia did a better job at "liberating" that country.

:puke:

[geek tragedy]

32. NATO troops should rescue the man and escort him to a civilized land. n/t

[daleo]

34. I heard he doesn't want to leave

He prefers to stay where he is and become a martyr. I guess proving his faith will make Jesus happy. And the Muslims responsible want to kill him to prove their faith. I guess that will make Allah happy.

[sattahipdeep]

37. Last week, Rahman told reporters

"They want to sentence me to death, and I accept it, but
I am not a deserter and not an infidel."

....
"We think he could be mad. He is
not a normal person. He doesn't talk like a normal person."

....
Moayuddin Baluch, a religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai
says Rahman will undergo a psychological exam.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7002880811

Will Salam Zaeef do the psychological exam?

[Centered]

38. Kinda blows a hole in that

Muslim protection of non believers thingy...

These are the things that make me think religion is a disease. With all of the good feelings and morals that are from religion... they sure get bastardized really quick.

[unkachuck]

33. unbelievable....

....where are the fundies of all stripes coming from?....has the world devolved a few centuries when I wasn't looking?....religion always gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside, like radishes....

[Kailassa]

35. If radishes gave me a fuzzie feeling inside, I'd stop smokin them.