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Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:19 AM
Original message
Former top judge says US risks edging near to dictatorship
Julian Borger in Washington
Monday March 13, 2006

Sandra Day O'Connor, a Republican-appointed judge who retired last month after 24 years on the supreme court, has said the US is in danger of edging towards dictatorship if the party's rightwingers continue to attack the judiciary.

In a strongly worded speech at Georgetown University, reported by National Public Radio and the Chicago Daily Law Bulletin, Ms O'Connor took aim at Republican leaders whose repeated denunciations of the courts for alleged liberal bias could, she said, be contributing to a climate of violence against judges.

Ms O'Connor, nominated by Ronald Reagan as the first woman supreme court justice, declared: "We must be ever-vigilant against those who would strong-arm the judiciary."

She pointed to autocracies in the developing world and former Communist countries as lessons on where interference with the judiciary might lead. "It takes a lot of degeneration before a country falls into dictatorship, but we should avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings."

more http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1729396,00.html

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. crappola--WHY isn't this is US press?
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wake.up.america Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Heaveeeee. You have to take what she says seriously. A so called-moderate.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. The Ministry of Truthiness has not approved this information
Edited on Mon Mar-13-06 04:26 AM by SpiralHawk
And likewise has not approved your comments.

So just shut up, sit down, and eat your choco-rations.

And always remember: Big BushCo loves you.
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greenman3610 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. NPR had it
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janetle Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
45. Keith Olbermann reported this and was shocked!
He kept saying---"She actually said the word 'dictatorship' and she said it twice!"
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janetle Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. It was last Friday.
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neuvocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #45
100. I'm not.
She's stupid as hell. She's the one who pissed and moaned about how she had to stay on the bench if Gore got elected.
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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
61. What is a choco-ration SpiralHawk? (nt)
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. In George Orwell's novel 1984, this is the "reward"
that the Big Brother (Big BushCo) government is eternally promising to deliver for the proles

choc0-rations = choclate rations
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. As the author says," if O'Connor believes what she's reported to have said
surely she owes it to the world to make public the prepared text of her remarks."

I don't think Georgetown U can. She has to be the one to authorize the release.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. I can not find your quote in this article. Did it come from elsewhere?
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. Oh my goodness. I don't know how that happened. It's from here--
Dictatorship is the danger

A Reagan-appointed supreme court justice voices her fears over attacks on US democracy

Jonathan Raban
Monday March 13, 2006
The Guardian

"...Delivered by someone who was, until recently, one of the nine guardians of the US constitution, these are spine-chilling opinions, and you might have thought they'd have been all over the papers the next day. Not so. I happened to catch Totenberg's NPR report last Friday, and have been following up references to it. A cable TV talkshow and a handful of blogs have mentioned Totenberg's piece: otherwise there's been a disquieting silence, as if the former justice had laid an unsavoury egg and had best be politely ignored.

Why did O'Connor choose such a closed forum to air her thoughts? Why was Totenberg the only reporter present? The possibility that America is sliding toward dictatorship or an unprecedented form of corporate oligarchy ought to be a matter of world concern. And if O'Connor believes what she is reported to have said, surely she owes it to the world to make public the prepared text of her remarks, which so far have the dubious character of the scores of unverifiable leaks that have passed for news in the compulsively secretive world of the Bush administration. It's unsurprising that, say, Colin Powell chooses to leak rather than speak out, but when a supreme court justice prefers to whisper her fears to a coterie audience, it's hard to avoid the inference that the whisper itself speaks volumes about the imperilled democracy it purports to describe. ..."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1729345,00.html


I must have had the windows of the two Guardian articles open at the same time.

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. What press?
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
34. While 99.9% of the corporate media lackeys
ignored O'Connor's comments, Keith Olbermann ran it as his lead story last Friday.
At least there is one journalist concerned with the demise of the Republic.
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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
63. I know you have got to read foreign news sites rodeodance. If you
don't, how are you going to know the truth. News breaks about the U.S. faster in foreign news then in the U.S. anymore. So much for a free press, huh?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. the rhetoric of "activist judges" is a lie
Edited on Mon Mar-13-06 08:55 AM by Evergreen Emerald
It is a designed tactic to dull his followers (not that they need to be any duller) to the fact that he is substituting judges who follow the rule of law with his activist judges--neo conservatives who will do his bidding.

That is one of the ways they are creating a climate of violence. I also remember specifically veiled threats against judges.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
7. article says she is referrring to Sen. Cornyn:-his comments below.


......She noted death threats against judges were on the rise and added that the situation was not helped by a senior senator's suggestion that there might be a connection between the violence against judges and the decisions they make.

The senator she was referring to was John Cornyn, a Bush loyalist from Texas, who made his remarks last April, soon after a judge was shot dead in an Atlanta courtroom and the family of a federal judge was murdered in Illinois.

Senator Cornyn said: "I don't know if there is a cause and effect connection, but we have seen some recent episodes of courthouse violence in this country ... And I wonder whether there may be some connection between the perception in some quarters, on some occasions, where judges are making political decisions yet are unaccountable to the public, that it builds up and builds up to the point where some people engage in violence."

Although appointed by a Republican, Ms O'Connor voted with the supreme court's liberals on some divisive issues, including abortion, making her a frequent target for criticism from the right. After announcing that she intended to retire last year at the age of 75, she was replaced in February this year by Samuel Alito, who is generally regarded as being more consistently conservative......





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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. O'Conner also talkes about DeLay's comments (about Terri Shiavo)


...In her address to an audience of corporate lawyers on Thursday, Ms O'Connor singled out a warning to the judiciary issued last year by Tom DeLay, the former Republican leader in the House of Representatives, over a court ruling in a controversial "right to die" case.

After the decision last March that ordered a brain-dead woman in Florida, Terri Schiavo, removed from life support, Mr DeLay said: "The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behaviour."

Mr DeLay later called for the impeachment of judges involved in the Schiavo case, and called for more scrutiny of "an arrogant, out-of-control, unaccountable judiciary that thumbed their nose at Congress and the president".

Such threats, Ms O'Connor said, "pose a direct threat to our constitutional freedom", and she told the lawyers in her audience: "I want you to tune your ears to these attacks ... You have an obligation to speak up.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
106. Yeah, right.......
"I want you to tune your ears to these attacks ... You have an obligation to speak up."

Like speaking up would actually result in anything but further attacks by the RW......................SUUURRRREEEE.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
10. A poet once said, "We don't need a weather man to tell us
which way the wind is blowing"
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I am glad to see O'Conner speaking up about this issue.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I too am glad but wasn't she one of the
SCJs who gave Bush the White House in 2000?
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yes, she was one of 5 who stopped the recount
which showed that Gore won.

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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
43. Exactly - She Is Partially To Blame
and she didn't have to resign while Dubya was in office, she had to know what type of person he'd appoint.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
69. not only was she
one of the five. I remember quite clearly watching the supreme court proceedings, and getting shocked when she said "If they can't figure out how to put a circle on a ballot card they don't deserve to vote". referring to thousands of people who voted in the wrong column because the ballot was so confusing. She was far from a moderate voice in 2000.
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. that is one big reason for everyone to take notice--she selected * & now
is warning against his dick-tatorship.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 05:27 AM
Response to Original message
13. Sure is taking time for this one to get out.
I guess our fears are with the newsmen and papers. TV only does the stuff every one goes with. Would not want to make people think I guess. Plus no pictures to show.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. heard one talking head
when asked about this -- basically pooh-poohed it by saying "...who is going to pay much attention to what an ex-judge says..."
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
16. "edging near to dictatorship" ?? - you mean it's NOT already???
.
.
.

coulda fooled me . .

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JWS Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
109. We need to start an "Orange" style revolution
To overthrow the tyrannical oppressors.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
17. Well look who found some moral courage! Isn't that special!
Back when republican thugs were storming election offices, Sandra just went with the flow.

Fuck her and the horse she rode in on.
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samhsarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
96. I agree.
You helped install the dictator bitch. Fuck her.
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Nomen Tuum Donating Member (396 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
20. Too late, Sandy. You did this to us.
You could have acted like a judge, but you chose to be a rubber stamp. I wonder how you sleep at night...
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Precisely - how did she vote on Bush v Gore?
Oh that's right, she voted to eliminate democractically elected politicians!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
95. Infuckingdeed.
"Oh, guys, be wary, the guy I helped illegally install over the rightful winner in the 2000 presidential election might be up to no good."

FUCK her.

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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
73. And RECENTLY she could have voted to hear states secret cases...
Edited on Mon Mar-13-06 02:14 PM by calipendence
like Sibel Edmonds' and Jeffry Sterling's, both of which were "dismissed without opinion" and still leaving us hanging with * hiding behind court-supported secrecy. Just watch, Reggie Walton will do this again and find a way of dismissing Libby's case, because of security reasons not allowing certain facts to be reviewed needed by Libby's lawyers. Then he'll get off scott free too. Had you voted along with three other on the left side of the court to at least HEAR these cases, that crap, and the move towards dictatorship that you're worried about now could have been stopped in its tracks!

We need more action rather than just words Sandra!
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
23. Looks like someone might be a bit worried that History will judge
Edited on Mon Mar-13-06 09:28 AM by AzDar
them harshly..you know,what with the squelching of Democracy and all.

Edited for: spelling without caffeine..
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
24. YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!! YOU PUT KING GEORGE IN POWER!!!
Sandra Fucking Day Traitor O'Connor realizes NOW that appointing someone to the White House is not a good idea?!?!?!

Thanks a lot Sandra Dee. You got us into this fucking mess!!!!
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. This is what enrages me too
It's like apologizing for helping get Hitler to power after he's killed 6mill jews.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #29
44. Not Quite
and can't we just 86 the Hitler comparisons?
They are often inaccurate, inflammatory and worst of all, cliched.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #44
92. Hell I see no deference between the 2... except for the dates.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #92
102. Dubya Hasn't Killed Millions
at least, not yet. Dubya may blame some Arabs and Muslims for our troubles, but also states that most of them are good and has no publicly known policy of wanting to exterminate them. Hitler outright blamed all Jews for the world's troubles. And wanted to wipe Jews from the face of the earth.

Big difference.

That doesn't mean I like Dubya. I think he has done evil things, but he is no Hitler.
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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
60. Yeah, what you said (nt)
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
25. Wondering Out Loud -- Did She Resign On Her Own Or Was She......
forced out of her seat on the SC?
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personman Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
26. Thank you pot...
we'll check the kettle for blackness immediately...

-personman
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
27. Too little, too late, Sandy ..... Fuck You for your sin of 2000
It was YOU who allowed this fuckwit to steal the seat of power from President Gore.

It was YOU who wwas the vaunted 'swing vote'.

It was YOU who was seen as the voice of moderation on the Court.

All that has happened since 2000 is on YOUR head.

The blood in Iraq is on YOUR hands.

The weight carried by the losses of our middle class are on YOUR back.

Fuck You Sandy.

But keep saying it. You'll feel better. And maybe, just maybe, you can have some influence to undo the terrible wrong that YOU did.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
28. Awww, Poor Sandy - is she feeling guilt for helping to INSTALL THE DICTATOR
A little too late to feel bad if you ask me!
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
30. "it`s to late....
baby it`s to late..." she is responsible for placing him there
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
31. What a hypocritical bitch!
O'Connor is one of the infamous five that selected Bush in 2000.

She has no right to speak. She put the asshole there.

Sue
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. And she put him there because it fit into her plans for retirement!
In a story published the following day, Christopher Hitchens, the United States correspondent for the Evening Standard of London, wrote that "O'Connor . . . has allegedly told her friends and family that she wishes to retire from the Court but won't do so if there is to be a Democratic president to nominate her replacement."4 Helen Thomas, a nationally syndicated columnist, wrote that "he story going around is that a very upset Justice Sandra Day O'Connor walked out of a dinner party on election night when she heard the first mistaken broadcast that Vice President A Gore had won. The ailing O'Connor apparently wants to retire, but not while a Democrat is in the White House and could pick her successor."5 Various parts of this story were repeated in a number of publications.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3975/is_200304/ai_n9221306

Can you imagine the nerve of this bitch?
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
32. Sandra dear, your resignation didn't help matters.....
you gave that dictator a chance to stack the court.

You couldn't have stuck around a couple more years?
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Ditto that. Sorry to repeat your post below, but great minds think alike.
(And small minds seldom differ, heh).

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
33. Surprise Sandy! The Dictatorship Is Here!
All Thanks to YOU! :grr:
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
35. Hell's bells, Sandy, why did you retire and give Cuckoo-bananas
Edited on Mon Mar-13-06 10:44 AM by mistertrickster
a chance to put in Scalito.

Thanks, but it's too little, too late . . .

(On edit--Roberts replaced Rheinquist, had that confused there for a sec)
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Loose Nuke Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
37. Now go on a speaking tour, Justice O'Connor, to right your wrong
In appointing the dictator. And don't forget to mention that the dictator's imprisoning people w/o charge or trial, rendition, torture, secret prisons, Iraq war lies and untold connections to Bin Laden and 9/11.

"Be part of Citizens Counter-Coup, The Formula For Change Now"
http://3c.911truth.org
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Strawman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
38. Why did she contiue to harbor the happy delusion...
that her replacement was going to be appointed by an Eisenhower Republican? How could she not have known better when she expressed her desire to retire under a Republican president?
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
40. The Enabler is criticizing the Enabled.
Your time has come and gone, O'Connor. If there be a doom on this country, let it be lain at your feet.

Sit back and watch this country collapse, and know in your heart that it is you who has hastened its downfal.

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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
41. A dictatorship she helped install....
Fuck her...
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
42. And which Supreme
helped give the job to shrub? She's one of the 5 prime causes of this problem.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
46. Partisan hack activist judge who's "out of the loop"
Did I get the talking points right?
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indeman Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
48. The myth about the Recount - Bush probably would have won even without SCT
Gore only had a chance of winning if the all votes from the entire state of Florida were recounted. But Gore only sought a recount for a few precincts. Follow-up studies show that even of those precincts had been fully recounted, Bush still would have the edge.

Trust me, I'm no Freeper. I despise the Bush Administration's policies. I hate the Iraq war. But we have to be honest about the recount. Yes, Gore won the popular vote. Yes, if all of Florida were fully counted, Gore probably would have won. But, Gore didn't ask for an entire recount of the whole state.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Umm, no
but nice try. "We" don't have to do anything, particularly in lockstep with someone who uses the disclaimer "I detest Bush more than anybody but..." and follows that with debunked republican talking points.
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indeman Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Umm, Yes. Bush still would have won, even if S.CT had not interfered.
This is not a republican talking point. Even mediamatters.org (a solid, reputable liberal website) recognizes the media consortium study indicating that Gore still probably would have lost under the limited recount that he sought. In order for Gore to have won, he would had to have "found a way to trigger a statewide recount of all disputed ballots." http://mediamatters.org/items/200502220004. But Gore did not ask for a statewide recount.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. Oh that's rich. MM disputes the very thing you're using as proof
from the link:

U.S. News & World Report senior writer and principal coauthor of The Almanac of American Politics Michael Barone repeated the false assertion that former Vice President Al Gore would have lost the 2000 presidential election under any recount scenario.

From Barone's February 21 nationally syndicated column:

In other words, Gore sought new counts only in areas where he was likely to gain votes and would not take the risk of a statewide hand count, where those gains might be offset by others for George W. Bush.





read here if you want to be truly educated and not spew RW talking points:

http://archive.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=239
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #57
66. That's not what it says at MM.
Edited on Mon Mar-13-06 01:51 PM by Hong Kong Cavalier
Media Matters does not say that Gore would have lost 2000.

"U.S. News & World Report senior writer and principal coauthor of The Almanac of American Politics Michael Barone repeated the false assertion that former Vice President Al Gore would have lost the 2000 presidential election under any recount scenario."

Your quote above in it's entirety on the MM website: "(I)f Gore had found a way to trigger a statewide recount of all disputed ballots, or if the courts had required it, the result likely would have been different. An examination of uncounted ballots throughout Florida found enough where voter intent was clear to give Gore the narrowest of margins." indicates that Gore could not initiate a statewide recount, because he "couldn't find a way" to do so.

Here's another factinating tidbit from the actual study at this link: "Nor was there any guarantee that Gore could have succeeded in getting a statewide recount. Florida law provided no mechanism to ask for a statewide recount, only county-by-county recounts. And although he did at one point call on Bush to join him in asking for a statewide recount, it was with the condition that Bush renounce all further legal action. Bush dismissed the offer, calling it a public relations gesture by his opponent, and Gore never took any further steps toward that goal."

While the above statement does say that "Gore never took any further steps towards that goal" it says so in the context of the second statement: "Florida law provided no mechanism to ask for a statewide recount, only county-by-county recounts." Abd so Gore did.

Media Matters does NOT say that Gore would have lost Florida. Neither does the Washington Post. If Gore had been able to initiate a state-wide recount, he would have probably won.

On Edit: Fixed Link
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #57
75. No. It's a Republican Talking Point.
Sorry, the Supreme Court stepped in--because Your Boy was about to lose. Gosh--Gore "cherry picked" those counties? We've heard it all.
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indeman Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #57
80. You guy are all missing the point.
The study cited by Media Matters DID say that it is likely that Gore would still have lost EVEN IF his REQUESTED recount (as opposed to a statewide recount) would have been allowed. Nobody has any evidence to suggest otherwise. Media Matters (and the cited study) says that Gore would have won if a STATEWIDE recount had been conducted. But Gore never requested a statewide recount.

BUT, that being said, the election certainly was stolen. As noted by the link from Mandate My Ass above, there were numerous activities that contributed to the theft of the election. Again, however, had the U.S. Supreme Court not interfered with Gore's recount among selected precincts, Gore likely still would have lost.

If we want to be more credible than the right wing, we can't continue making and relying on discredited information. We have to admit those points that might not be favorable to our position.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. LOL
Who's we? :rofl:
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indeman Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. I think its obvious who "we" are.
People like me and most everyone who posts here who recognize what a disaster the Bush administration has been.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #85
94. Paula Poundstone did a bit in a comedy routine about Sirhan
Edited on Mon Mar-13-06 04:36 PM by Mandate My Ass
Sirhan. When SS was up for parole that was certainly going to be denied for the umpteenth time, he had the nerve to say to the parole board, "If RFK were alive today, he'd pardon me." She then goes on to quip, "What an unlucky guy, the only person who could possibly help him out of a pinch is a dead guy." Get it? :-)

Anybody who tries to confer legitimacy on the 2000 FL debacle by saying if SCOTUS hadn't ruled in their favor killing the recounts, poor Bush would have the legitimacy he's so cruelly been denied, falls into the same category, IMHO. We all get that and it doesn't make us look bad.
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JWS Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #57
110. The limited recount was supposed to be
In districts favorable to Gore, and probably would've resulted in a Gore victory. People say, however, that this would have been unfair to Bush.
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. Thanks, I am officially no longer mad at Sandra Day....
and the rest of the dictator installing bastards.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #48
71. sorry, that is simply not true.
In broward county alone, the recount, up to the point when it was stopped, had enough votes for gore so that only 3 more votes from any county, or broward alone, would have given gore florida and the presidency. that is not counting any other county. . I have family there, and met the voting supervisor. they were physically stopped from finishing the recount.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #71
97. Isn't Broward where the Republican staffers staged a demonstration?
You remember that famous photograph? Wasn't that Broward County?

Welcome to DU. :hi:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #48
107. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
49. Screw Sandra!!
If she is so fucking concerned about this country turning into a dictatorship, Why the fuck did she resign???? She KNEW what she was doing by giving up another seat to Bush!!! Screw her!!
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iamahaingttta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
50. FUCK HER!!!!
Stupid fucking cow!!!

THIS IS HER GODDAMN FAULT!!! SHE FUCKING VOTED FOR THIS SHIT IN 2000!!!

Anybody around here could have told her that we would be in this position if she hadn't been so fucking blinded by ideology back then, but she was SO concerned that the liberal Al Gore was going to appoint a REAL jurist to replace her when she retired.

O'Conner, more than ANYONE ELSE is responsible for this.

To hear her complain now, all I have to say is FUCK YOU, BITCH!!!

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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Say it, say it, say it again!
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. Here, let me...
FUCK YOU, SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR!
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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. I'd say she is pretty well F***** anyway. She sold her soul to the devil
a long time ago and now she is trying to redeem herself. Too little to late Sandy. I hope the future history books (if we are allowed to have books by then), that our grandchildren will read state that you were the Benedict Arnold of the 21st Century. You helped put this administration in power, then you helped them take control of the court. What . . . you couldn't wait a couple years? Why show such concern now? You have just ruined your legacy forever with this one speech.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #50
93. I second that "FUCK YOU" to Sandra Day O'Connor!...n/t
Edited on Mon Mar-13-06 04:03 PM by Tight_rope
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #50
99. What you said.
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selmo7 Donating Member (275 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #50
111. Sandra Day "Pontius Pilate" O'Connor - the blood
of the dictator YOU appointed is ON YOUR HANDS!
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
52. No shit, thanks for nothing.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
53. Then WHY did she retire? makes no sense. n/t
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Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Because her husband is ill.
She wanted to spend time with her husband who is, as I understand it, gravely ill.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
77. She wanted to retire earlier.
There's the story of her election night disappointment when Gore was leading. She wanted her replacement to be picked by a Republican.

Then, why didn't she retire after she voted Bush in? Was she already feeling regret? Did she wait until, perhaps, a better president could pick her replacement? Did she finally give up after Bush won again.

What if she'd voted "against" Bush? Gore would have picked her replacement; probably NOT a flaming radical. And she would have gained 4 precious years of retirement--irreplaceable years with her ailing husband.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #53
67. her husband is very ill with Alzheimer's
n/t
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. I'm sorry about that, however, he was well enough to stand
on the 50 yard-line with her at the Rose Bowl Game and make the coin toss. I saw that with my own two eyes.

Bottom line...she sold her country out in 2000. Period.

Peace.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. "Bottom line...she sold her country out in 2000. Period."
You'll find no argument about that from me.
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
59. She voted to allow elections to be stolen from the people.
Edited on Mon Mar-13-06 01:42 PM by fshrink
This is beyond "bias" and the other way around. In the good ole' American tradition of killing you and then apologizing for it.
Edit: I am sorry to insist, but this country will not get on its track, avoid dictatorship precisely, unless the 2000/2004 elections are completely and publicly investigated and cleared up. You get over that, you pave the way to what she's talking about.
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
68. Sandra Day... You need to "Sit Down and Shut Up!!!"
You're the cause of problems we are having today.
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Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #68
78. No she shouldn't. SHE SHOULD SPEAK LOUDER. n/t
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
76. Not sleeping too well at night any more? Go on a speaking tour
Get on network and cable tv -- hell, even Oprah. Write Op-Ed pieces for every newspaper in the nation.

Repent of your sins by carrying a picket sign on the steps of our nation's temple of justice, the Supreme Court.

Repent! I say, Repent! Publicly and often.

After several years of this exercise you might be able to sleep at night, Sandra Day O'Connor.

Hekate

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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
79. Gee thanks Sandra - YOU are responsible...
She'll have to live forever with that. Also she will live on forever in history with the sentence "handed the presidency to George W. Bush in 2000."
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
82. I saw this story on KO Friday night
My first thought was, "YOU subverted Democracy by stopping the vote count in the 2000 election and appointing a pResident ... and NOW you're worried about a US dictatorship?? Thanks for nothing!" :eyes: :grr:


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
83. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
84. How nice, she's waking up.
Edited on Mon Mar-13-06 03:46 PM by superconnected
Rarely do enablers wake up.

Guess what Sandra, you fixed it so we will never have a fair election again. You sold democracy out in 2000. You didn't know throwing out fair elections to fixed ones is the halmark of dictatorship? Stupid, stupid woman.

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AussieDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
86. Short of a full apology for the 2000 "decision", anything this bitch says
is completely irrelevant - all designed to try to justify her fat white ass for posterity.

Take a hike, Sandy - you helped bring all of this about so shut the fuck up. Actions have consequences, or were you too blinded by ideology to think of that ??

Have a nice long life to continue to witness all that you helped create.........

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Padme Amidala Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
87. O'Connor was definitely with the bad guys so she should know
She was the one who said that likely innocence was no reason to stop an execution. She was also one of the five injustices who committed treason on 12/12/00. Maybe she's looking back on her life with remorse.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
88. Guilty Concious Sandra !!! You voted for President Bush
remember the stealing of the 2000 election against Gore... You were part of the cabal ... Redemption is possible and I think Sandra is trying to redeem herself just like Colin Powell...

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Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Um, that's "conscience." n/t
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
89. How ironic - if it wasn't for the Felonious Five
we wouldn't be worrying about a dictatorship! This is the SCOTUSs doing, so get used to it Sandy.
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DebbieCDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
90. Dictators
Well, gee, thanks for the tip Sandy old girl....since you helped impose the dictator on us.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
98. Now is the time for all good men (and women)
to come to the aid of their country.


Sandy,

Very few people in the world were in a better position than you to prevent a dictatorship, yet you abandoned your post in your country's hour of need. You are guilty of desertion and dereliction of duty far more egregious than any soldier fleeing a field of battle. The fact that you now trumpet the necessity of that battle calls attention to your cowardice and to the fact that your vote put this dictator in office in the first place.
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Goldfish Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #98
103. A-men to that!
You expressed my thoughts and feelings exactly!
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
101. A lot of questions about Iraq on this AOL poll - most are against
Do you support the war in Iraq?
No 70%
Yes 30%
Total Votes: 164,622
=====How confident are you that Iraq is headed in the right direction?
Not at all 65%
Very 20%
Somewhat 15%
Total Votes: 176,738
asks for your attitudes in 2003 then 2006 on each question to compare:

==How helpful have Bush's recent speeches on Iraq been?
Very
Somewhat
Not at all
==How confident are you that Iraq is headed in the right direction?
Very
Somewhat
Not at all

http://news.aol.com/dailypulse/031306?id=20060313104209990001

today's questions are about Sen. Feingold's resolution.


poll sites MSNBC C-Span

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/
http://www.capitalnews.org/

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pearl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. Sandra Day's entire and only legacy will be
George W Bush. Period. Fuck you Sandra Day!
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
105. So now she's resting down in Cornwall...
...writing up her Memoirs, for a paper-back edition of the Bushjugend Manual...

"I got mine, Good luck SUCKAHS! Hope you like my replacement, Torque-Alito!"

Should she do a duet of the scaffold dance with Condi, or should she get a spotlight?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #105
113. Yeah...thought the same thing ...."I got mine." Now she's just trashing
what gave it to her.
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stillrockin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
108. As Janeane would say, . . .
"She can kiss my fat black ass."

:P
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erpowers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
112. Step Down
If that is the way she feel then why did she step down. She should have stayed on the court.
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drduffy Donating Member (739 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #112
114. f'ing hypocrite
Sandy, yo a pos
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