Alzheimer's 'faster in educated'

[DoYouEverWonder]

16 February 2006

Alzheimer's disease progresses more rapidly in highly educated people, research suggests.

It is thought high levels of education may ward off Alzheimer's by helping the brain better tolerate damaging changes.

But the latest study, involving 312 Alzheimer's patients, suggests once accumulated damage reaches a critical level, decline is relatively swift.

The study, by New York's Columbia University, features in the Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery and Psychiatry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4713570.stm


No wonder Reagan lasted so long. He obviously wasn't very educated.

[fishnfla]

1. " It was years before they figured out I was senile"

some folks have a real head start on this disease

[Mind_your_head]

32. Yours is the best comment!!! Too funny

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[uppityperson]

2. Good, I'd rather go fast.

[slor]

3. well. I guess the chimp's...

real war on teror will begin. now that he can fight intelligence.

[liberalhistorian]

4. Interesting. My stepdad

has Alzheimer's; he's 62. From what we can gather, it started when he was around 56 or so. He has a master's degree in English and was a high school and college teacher. His decline in the past year has been a lot worse, and it seems that he's getting worse by the day.

[mike_c]

12. this is the first thing I thought of when I saw that subject line...

:hug:

[liberalhistorian]

36. Thanks for

the hug, Mike, you must have known I was in need of one! :hi: :hug:

[stepnw1f]

5. Except for Reagan

Ketchup is not a vegetable.

[burrowowl]

19. Raygun

was not that educated or did he use his mind.

[auagroach]

22. Raygun,Wambuagh and Alzhiemer

Ever read any Joseph Wambuagh? In one of his novels he cracked wise, "Reagan was so senile he thought Alziemer was his Sec. of Defence."

[VegasWolf]

6. Damn, more bad news! nt

[neuvocat]

7. That's interesting.

I just saw a study that concluded the opposite-the additional brain power generated by higher education was helpful in resisting it.

Of course I don't have the link to the study.

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. Yes, that's still true

but this studies say that if you do get it, then it goes very fast.

[salin]

13. I read it as subtley different

that it resists Alzheimers to a particular point (as in... slows down/wards off but not that it prevents Alzheimers) because the brain is more "resilient" - but that once a certain point of progression in the disease has been reached, the acceleration of the condition accelerates at a faster pace than with others.

[VegasWolf]

9. I think they are saying post onset the disease progresses faster. nt

[pitohui]

37. both studies draw false conclusions, read my first post

you can reconcile both studies when you realize that alzheimer's victims try to hide the fact that they are ill, educated and intelligent victims have more tools to conceal their illness longer, therefore when it finally becomes impossible for them to conceal their illness, it appears that they have reached the end stages faster, believe me, their suffering was not any less nor the progress of the disease any slower, they just have more tools to keep the secret

sadly i've witnessed this too close at hand

i'm surprised the researchers can't grok this or maybe they don't want to grok it

[thinkingwoman]

57. grokked or not

they need a large study group.

[TNDemo]

10. I absolutely believe this, for the early onset folks.

My mother got in her 50s and was a very sharp cookie. At her nursing home I was walking her up and down the hall and a caregiver was walking a 64-year-old guy. The two of us struck up a conversation. She asked if my mother had been very smart and I said yes. She said that this guy was a CEO and very intelligent and well to do (hence the ability to pay for not only the nursing home but a 24 hour caregiver too) and that of all the patients she had cared for over the years, it was the ones who got Alzheimer's young that seemed to be very intelligent. There was another guy there my mother's age and he had a lot of scientific patents and was very well accomplished and educated. I remember seeing a study a few years ago that correlated a high IQ with early onset Alzheimer's. Maybe I'm safe...

[LostinVA]

14. The same with the writer Iris Murdoch

[alfredo]

15. My mother was very intelligent, but uneducated. The Alzheimers

took for ever to take her down for good (10 years after diagnosis)

[TNDemo]

17. What age did she get it?

Usually the younger they get it, the faster they go.

[alfredo]

18. She was in her mid 70's

when diagnosed.

[SharonAnn]

55. Early Onset Alzheimer's appears to be slightly different as to

cause. It's apparently more associated with a specific genetic pattern, which is inheritable.

I have a good friend, diagnosed at age 50, now 60, who has this type. His wife is worried to death about their children and whether or not they've inherited this genetic pattern.

My friend was one of the most intelligent people I've ever known (in the high-tech business), great personality, energetic and just plain wonderful to work with. Actually, I never worked harder in my life than when I was working for him. It's terrible to see him now. Still ambulatory but the "person" is gone. And without that "person", he doesn't even look the same.

[Panda1]

11. I dunno....

Could it be a higher capacity for retention in the first place makes it more noticeable?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

16. Is this for real?

Or is it propaganda designed to deter people from pursuing an education?

:shrug:

[raccoon]

30. The "education complex" would never let them get away with that. nt

[pitohui]

38. it is for real, but the premise is wrong

the researchers don't understand that alzheimer's victims are motivated to conceal their disease, intelligent and educated people are both more motivated and have better tools for concealing the progress of the disease longer

don't grok how it would be propaganda designed to deter you from getting an education, if you really thought an education would shorten the course of this evil disease, you'd pay any price if you could

unfortunately, the conclusions are not quite correct, the progress of the disease may appear to be faster to the researcher, but to the person who has been concealing the disease for years before discovery and diagnosis, it isn't any faster, two decades with one of those decades spent faking it and constantly pissing people off because you appear to be deliberately acting stupid, passive-aggressive or inconsiderate isn't fun either

[daleo]

20. Well this is new

As the article says, all the previous findings went in the opposite direction. I think this is one of those areas that may show conflicting results for a while.

[choicevoice]

21. Early onset Alzheimer's runs in our family.

My grandmother, a cajun with almost no education was diagnosed in her early 60's. My mother was diagnosed in her early 50's and died at 57. My older brother was diagnosed in his early 50's and died at 55. I had two other brothers but they died young so I have no idea how they would have fared. I have no idea what their IQ's were their cases were rapidly progressing going from irregular speech patterns to total non functioning fetal position in just a few years.

I am now in my early 50's and don't mind not being able to find my car keys as long as I know what to do with them once I do find them.

[anitar1]

24. Good for you !! Keep on , "keepin" on!!

[TNDemo]

27. Have you read Decoding Darkness: The Search for the Genetic

Cause of Alzheimer's by Rudy Tanzi? It is very clinical but the bottom line is the only form of Alzheimer's that they know if truly genetic is early onset. I corresponded with him a couple of times. He says since I have a parent with it that I have a 50% heritable risk. I am hoping my father's heart gets me before my mother's brain. It is the last way I want to go. If it was being happily demented that would be okay but that is rarely the case, as I am sure you know.

[Auntie Bush]

35. I'll say lots of prayers for you.

How are you taking his and in a scale of 1-10 (1 being not worried at all and 10 being worry about it almost daily and has have negative effects on your life). I think if this was me I'd probably be about a 6. My Mother died of Alzheimer's so I'm concerned but have confidence I'll beat it but it's still has me concerned...especially after I can't remember something I once knew...like spelling and writing!

Good luck to you. Sounds like you may not have gotten that gene.

[Ciggies and coffee]

23. Nicotine Prevents Alzheimer's

http://www.forces.org/evidence/hamilton/other/nicotine.htm

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. Great, then you can die of lung cancer instead

n/t

[pitohui]

39. lung cancer is kinder than alzheimer's

i've had people close to me die of both, it's a pretty easy choice, a couple weeks to a few months to go or two decades to go while everything good about my personality is destroyed and only hate, anger, frustration, and darkness remain

unfortunately don't have the time or the lungs to tolerate cigarettes but for those who do, i wish them well

[noonwitch]

42. My sister's MIL says she smokes because she'd rather die of cancer

than from Alzheimer's, which she says runs in her family. Ultimately, they probably will find something that protects against it-I will laugh my ass off if that substance is in any way related to cannibis sativa!

[megatherium]

26. The people on the forces web site deny smoking causes lung cancer!

Unbelievable -- they say it's never been proven!! But nearly 90% of all lung cancers happen in smokers or former smokers. That is 150,000 lung cancer deaths per year due to smoking in the US. The bottom line: the epidemiology is abundantly clear, smoking kills. A lot. In July of 2005, the CDC Weekly Morbidity and Mortality Report reported the latest numbers: smoking takes 14 years off of the life of the average smoker. Fourteen years!!

This subject is important to me: In December just last year, I was present when my father, a former 2-pack-a-day smoker, died of lung cancer.

[NickB79]

48. If it takes 14 yrs off your lifespan

It makes sense that smokers don't get Alzheimers; you die from cancer long before your brain degrades.

I'd take my chances and not smoke, thank you. Or, if there is merit to the nicotine hypothesis, how about nicotine chewing gum?

[megatherium]

53. nicotine gum might make sense except nicotine affects

the cardiovascular system. Heart disease is a major cause of death due to smoking (although I don't know how much of this is the nicotine or the smoke).

One peculiarity of smoking is that most schizophrenics smoke (nearly 90%). Scientists have wondered if nicotine is helpful for people with that disease, so they self-medicate. But I have read that some scientists think the link between smoking and schizophrenia is actually causal, that smoking increases the risk of developing schizophrenia in persons who are genetically susceptible.

[nodehopper]

28. I heard something on NPR the other day that contradicted it

that education level itself had nothing to do with it, but regular mental activity staved off Alzheimer's for longer in blue-collar/physical worker study subjects, and made little or not statistically significant impact on people whose jobs were primarily mental, rather than physical.

[Bridget Burke]

29. Whatver the future brings--let's use our brains while we have them!

Trying to learn (another) language, attempting a (new) musical instrument or expanding your mind in any way is probably a good idea.

Let the studies continue, though.

[raccoon]

31. These posts are scaring me. I knew early onset Alzheimer's

existed, but hearing about people that got it in their 50's or 60's is scary.

My deceased mother had it. As well as we can tell, it started when she was about 70.

That's the main reason I think anybody who says, "Everything happens for a reason" is full of horse manure.

Anyway, this thread makes me remember that old time is still a'flyin, and if I want to do something I'd better go ahead and do it. I'm in my mid 50's.

[pitohui]

40. half of those over age 85 have it

early onset is rare but age-related alzheimer's is pretty much an inevitability if something else don't get you first

they need to find a cure for this, not a bullshit medicine that doesn't do anything but put $$$ in pharma's pocket but something real

[happyslug]

33. Problems with this Study

Alzheimer Can NOT be truly diagnosed till an autopsy, for only then can you see the deterioration of the brian. Now you have several other causation of Senility that mimics Alzheimer that are often diagnosis Alzheimer while the person is alive, but found to be wrong once you have an Autopsy. Thus the causation MAY not be Alzheimer but that other mental disease tied in with high intelligence, Schizophrenia.

Schizophrenia generally starts in males in their early 20, in females their early 30s, but can start at later ages. Furthermore Schizophrenia can vary from person to person, some people it only affects them mildly so they can be productive people, other its makes them unproductive. Given Schizophrenia connection with high intelligence if a person only has it to a mild degree at onset, as their age their ability to hold on to their mind may just deteriorate so that when they turn 50 or 60 you see a rapid decline in their mental capabilities (and thus the above statement as to Alzheimer for Alzheimer is viewed in a better light in our society than Schizophrenia).

Just a comment on why this study may be accurate as to the people involved but NOT be accurate to people suffering from Alzheimer.

Web Sites on Schizophrenia
http://www.reutershealth.com/wellconnected/doc47.html
http://psy.otago.ac.nz/epc/abstracts/abstractsB.htm
http://www.community-alliance.org/schizophrenia.htm
http://www.cellscience.com/shdss2.html

Web Sizes on Alzheimer's:
http://www.alzheimers.org/
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/alzheimersdisease.html
http://www.alzheimersupport.com/
http://www.topix.net/health/alzheimers-disease
http://www.alzinfo.org/understanding/signssymptoms/
http://www.pbs.org/theforgetting/symptoms/

[pitohui]

41. schizophrenia is not very similar to alzheimer's

i don't see how a competent medical team could confuse the two for any length of time

my schizophrenic friends actually hear and see things that are not there, and they have additional memories of things that never happened, such as contact w. supernatural beings, while my relatives with alzheimer's after a certain point can't even remember what they heard or saw just moments previous and at times can't even access real memories, for instance, can't remember having given birth, can you imagine just forgetting something like that?

[happyslug]

49. Schizophrenia does NOT require hearing voices Hallucinations etc

Now in Severe Cases Hearing Voices and hallucinations do occur, but I am talking about MILD cases. I have represented several clients who had Schizophrenia who did NOT hear voices, have hallucinations or the other extreme characteristics of Schizophrenia and as such capable of working in the real world for decades (Which is why they were denied Social Security when they first applied even through they were incapable of working any longer). These Client work off and on for years and then Finally their mental condition gets away from them and you start to see problems generally tied in with Alzheimer's and other disease of aging. Remember I am NOT saying anyone will confuse Severe Cases of either condition but the mild forms the difference between the conditions are NOT that clear (The main characteristic of Schizophrenia is a general disassociation with reality part of which may be, but not always is, hearing voices, hallucinations etc).

Second, I only gave Mild Schizophrenia as an example of one of the many other disease Disease that mimic Alzheimer's in senior citizens and given what we know of Schizophrenia the problems of both can be confused. There are other diseases that mimic Alzheimer's in addition to Schizophrenia I am just most familiar with Schizophrenia. The point I was trying to make is the report being sited may be affected by people NOT suffering from Alzheimer's but some other mental/physical disease one which may be Schizophrenia but there are others.

Third, all Psychological disease (Which is what Alzheimer is until you do the Autopsy) are guidelines for treatment and understanding Psychological problems. The classification of the Psychological problems were never intended to be viewed as absolute in all cases. In fact people vary in the Symptoms of most psychological disease more than they meet the requirements of those classifications. The DSM IV is not a writ of absolutes but a guidelines as to how to treat people with Psychological problems. This treatment extents not only to Schizophrenia but to Alzheimer's and other diseases of the brain.

In Short my point was to show that this Report had a lot of potential for errors, unintended errors but errors none the less.

.

[TNDemo]

52. I can see that schizophrenia and Alzheimer's could be

confused in the early stages but I don't think the later stages would be similar, unless I am mistaken. Do schizophrenic people forget how to swallow and walk? My mother actually did have visual hallucinations with her disease and she had pathology proven Alzheimer's.

[savemefromdumbya]

56. using instruments

you can get some idea with instruments and computer analysis (AGECAT) but you don't get a positive identification until autopsy. Many people call dementia Alzheimers because it sounds better. There are many dementias classified including vascular.

[pitohui]

34. they really don't know why this is? i can tell them

i don't understand why they don't get it, the reason is obvious to me, educated and highly intelligent people have little tricks to keep from getting found out when they first start developing alzheimer's, one of my relatives probably had alzheimer's as long as ronald reagan, but although we knew she was a little odd for years, she retained the ability to read and was actually leaving little notes for herself, they were pretty sad when they were discovered, things like "this is a gift from so-and-so, send her a thank-you note, she is your oldest daughter"

the alzheimer's was there but the literacy and intelligence allows the person to create work-arounds and crutches for their failing memory and these work-arounds can really keep other people fooled for many years, you'd be surprised, after all, other people see what they want to see and most people don't jump up every little sign of forgetfulness and assume you're senile, instead they assume you are being passive-aggressive or otherwise proving a point, for years we put down this relative as the queen of passive-aggressive

reagan did last a long time, he had prodromal symptoms in the early 80s if not earlier, most of the time he was in public life he was a little "off" but he had the advantage of being able to read for much of the early to mid 80s if not even later and he also had a staff covering for him, so while it was apparent to me even in the 1980 campaign that he was ill, you would hear the naive or those inexperienced calling him such things as "great communicator"

i don't like the old fool, but he did use what tricks he could to fool the public and he actually fooled the majority of the public for the better part of a decade, even the news media didn't acknowledge that he was probably ill until 87 or so, and even then the news reports were very very circuitous so as not to alarm the sheeple

[TNDemo]

51. That's just how my mother was.

She compensated extremely well and made it very hard for us to know what was going on. She was in her 50s so we thought she just needed some estrogen or Prozac or something. Once I took over her affairs I could see how things had started failing about 10 years earlier, like the inability to balance her checkbook, etc. I am amazed she functioned for so long.

[Hosnon]

43. So if you're smart you use your brain up faster? Sucks that there's a set

limit on the thing...

[pitohui]

44. no let me try again

i'm apparently not very clear

if you're smart, you still get it at the same time as a stupid or uneducated person, but as a smart person you have more resources to draw on to make up for the lack of memory, so you can hide that you're ill until you have a major major crisis, such as permanently instead of intermittently losing the ability to read the little notes you have left for yourself -- at which point it would become obvious that you were seriously impaired by illness

an illiterate or a person who was just stupid and didn't rely on brain-power to begin w. would never have the little notes and the ability to hide their illness in the first place, so it would appear that they had gotten ill more slowly and that the disease progressed more slowly in their case

that would just be an appearance, actually, both had the disease for the same amount of time, but only one had the skills to conceal their disease for any length of time

researchers in these studies fail to acknowledge that alzheimer's patients in the early years will do their best to hide the fact that they are ill


my observation anyways

there are whole little cottage industries out there trying to teach older people tricks to make up for memory loss, they are not a permanent solution to alzheimer's which continues to progress but people will seize on them for awhile

[Hosnon]

50. I was making a joke. nt

[TexasLawyer]

45. Now I get it...

No Child Left Behind, budget cuts for college loans, the dumbing down of America...

It is all just a massive anti-Alzheimer's campaign. Thank you, BushCo.

[donco6]

46. Title is misleading.

The article is actually saying those who are more educated (and probably just those who exercise their brain more regularly), see a longer period of time to onset of dementia, but once it starts, the progress is much more rapid.

The headline makes it sound like highly educated people get dementia faster.

[Nimrod2005]

47. He was an actor!!! Not known for brains usaully.....

[savemefromdumbya]

54. 312 patients not enough - problems with study

need at least 5000 people who will be followed in a longitudinal study.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

58. I managed the Alzheimer's wing at our hospital

ten years ago, before retiring from nursing. I had a patient who was the most brilliant man I'd ever met. If I mentioned his name and his work, all of you would know him. By the time he came to us, he and his family had traveled a long and tortured road with this disease. But yes, in the end the disease progressed very quickly and mercifully. I have often described it as much like flipping the switches to every electronic thing in your home. One by one the systems all shut down.

I don't know that my story proves anything as I had other patients who were ordinary people with ordinary jobs and lives who also went quickly once the end process started to occur. I think "rapidly" is a relative term when dealing with human beings and so many variables.

[Geo55]

59. Yep , I agree

Smart folks know when to leave reality "rapidly".