5 southern baptist churches set on fire in Alabama

[buff2]

No Link. Heard it on MSGOP.

[Cooley Hurd]

1. MSNBC link here:

Authorities Probe Church Fires In Bibb & Chilton Counties

WVTM-TV
CENTREVILLE, Ala. - Authorities say at many as five churches in Bibb County were damaged by fire overnight, including the Ashby Baptist Church on Highway 139 in the Brierfield community. The structure burned to the ground.

The pastor of another nearby church --the Reverend David Hand of the Old Union Baptist Church -- says a fire was discovered at his church at around 4:30 Friday morning. But, he said the blaze was extinguished before it could cause serious damage.

Other churches hit by fires early Friday morning include Antioch Baptist and Pleasant Sabine Baptist in Centreville and Rehobeth Baptist Church in Lawley, Ala.

Another fire damaged a church in Chilton County late Friday afternoon. An article in Friday's Clanton Advertiser reports a fire gutted the Old New Harmony Church.
</snip>

[goclark]

2. By chance are these African American churches? nt

[enid602]

3. churches

Or these days, you have to ask if they went against accepted Bush doctrine.

[QC]

5. Very few black Southern Baptists.

There are some, of course, but not many.

[donheld]

19. There is no mention that these churches were

Southern baptist. They were baptist in the south but not necessarily members of the Southern Baptist Convention.

[noonwitch]

21. "Missionary Baptist" denomination

I always thought that black southern baptists were in that denomination, not "Southern Baptist". At least, for the most part.

[Maddy McCall]

26. Most black baptist churches are MB or Free Will Baptist.

I have traveled extensively throughout the south, and if I ever saw a black SB church, I'd have to stop and take a photo...I've just never seen one before.

[colonel odis]

27. since the southern baptist denomination was founded to justify slavery,

i doubt there are many black southern baptist churches.

i believe the black baptist body is called the national baptist convention.

regardless, whoever did it is despicable. do you have any idea just how badly you'd burn in hell for setting churches on fire?

[Tesha]

41. In a number of sects, I'm pretty sure you'd only go to Hell if...

> regardless, whoever did it is despicable. do you have any idea just how badly you'd burn in hell for setting churches on fire?

In a number of sects, I'm pretty sure you'd only go to Hell if you burn *THE WRONG* churches.

Tesha

[Bridget Burke]

6. Not all of them.

One search revealed an integrated congregation. These appear to be smallish churches--some won't even have a website.

I do think that they may be Baptist Churches in the South, rather than Southern Baptist Churches. There is a difference.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

12. Am I too twisted a person if your post reminds me of "Life of Brian?" -nt

[rodeodance]

4. it is friday morning.

Another fire damaged a church in Chilton County late Friday afternoon.

[htuttle]

7. Maybe it hasn't happened yet?

:shrug:

[rodeodance]

8. i see they made a correction

CENTREVILLE, Ala. - Authorities say at many as five churches in Bibb County were damaged by fire overnight, including the Ashby Baptist Church on Highway 139 in the Brierfield community. The structure burned to the ground. The pastor of another nearby church -- the Reverend David Hand of the Old Union Baptist Church -- says a fire was discovered at his church at around 4:30 Friday morning. But, he said the blaze was extinguished before it could cause serious damage. Other churches hit by fires early Friday morning include Antioch Baptist and Pleasant Sabine Baptist in Centreville and Rehobeth Baptist Church in Lawley, Ala. Another fire damaged a church in Chilton County late Thursday afternoon. An article in Friday's Clanton Advertiser reports a fire gutted the Old New Harmony Church.

No one was hurt and investigators with the state Fire Marshal's Office are trying to determine how it started. It's unclear if the church fires are connected. There have been no arrests.

[bbernardini]

9. "It's unclear if the church fires are connected."

"In other news, it's unclear if sex results in pregnancy, and it's unsure if the combination of two molecules of hydrogen and one of oxygen result in water."

[JeffR]

10. Killer

:rofl:

[AngryAmish]

16. Maybe it was careless smoking in bed

[BR_Parkway]

11. Horrible, but first thought was I wonder if they burned their own

churches to get support, money or even to cover up something.

[blm]

29. Same here - or clear the way for a new MEGA-CHURCH that wants to move in?

[calimary]

43. I wondered that same thing, also.

Remember when kkkarl rove had his own office bugged while working on some Texas campaign, and then called this big whiny noisy press conference to blame it on his client's opponents? I hate to be so suspicious of people's motives, but rove and others in his lovely, adorable, inclusive, nonjudgmental party have driven me to it.

[CornField]

13. Some photos

Ashby Baptist Church:


Old Union Church:


Antioch Baptist:


Rehobeth Baptist:


Only one of the churches hit had a congregation predominantly black. (All the churches had mixed race congregations -- as most churches do.)

Still, one has to wonder about the SotU and the link between the fight against AIDS as put out by Bush and his direct linking of AIDS to black churches. At least, such things make this one wonder anyway.

[Bridget Burke]

15. These aren't exactly Mega-churches.

And probably more Baptist Churches in the South than Southern Baptist Churches.

[DeepModem Mom]

17. These little churches look like old country churches; seems a shame...

to me. Not megachurches at all. Thanks for the photos.

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. Those aren't real churches.

Real churches employ hundreds of people and fleece, uh, serve thousands.

I'm only half joking. I think the mega-churches see themselves as big business, and the best way to increase your customer base is to shut down the competition. You never hear about THEM being burned.

[FlaGranny]

20. That COULD be because the megachurches

have the funds to hire security guards.

Edit: Anyhow, I feel very sorry for the country folks who attend and support those churches.

[msongs]

14. maybe the rapture is underway? nt

[iverglas]

22. well let me be the first atheist to say

this is a tragic and despicable series of events.

For many people, churches like these are important places for social connection and inclusion in a community. I doubt that anyone could have any legitimate grievances against all these churches, let alone any that would justify this kind of act.

Utterly silly conspiracy theories notwithstanding, my first suspicion would be that the fires are the acts of youth bent on exhibiting disrespect for anything and everything, and seeing churches as a pretty good demonstration target for their unpleasant attitudes.

Some attacks on other religious facilities -- synagogues, mosques -- are about the same thing. Look at me, I'm baaad, I'm gonna do something really baaad, 'cause everybody else in the world is useless and deserving of my contempt and I'm gonna make them really mad by being so bad.

I'm open to evidence to the contrary, as always, of course.

[Maddy McCall]

25. See my post below.

I had not read your post when I posted mine.

Yes, you are right about youth probably being the arsonists, but youths can perform hate crimes that are racially motivated. The truth will come out...someone always flips. In the case in Mississippi, the boys who did it had learned racial hatred from their parents.

[iverglas]

30. agreed

Yes, you are right about youth probably being the arsonists, but youths can perform hate crimes that are racially motivated.

I would've gone on a bit more, but I had to finish a piece of actual work. ;)

Young people can indeed be racists, and commit racially-motivated acts. It seems to be more common for the adolescent ones to actually act out the racism than for the older ones, though -- just as they're more likely to act out most anything.

I think it can be hard to distinguish and assign the motivation -- the specific "I hate X and I'm gonna hurt X" from the general "I'm an asshole and I'm gonna behave like an asshole".

The thing that does distinguish racially-motivated acts from general-asshole acts is the specific intent, the deliberate choice of a target. That's what hate crimes legislation is aimed at: the fact (it is believed) that acts like that are more amenable to deterrence than general-asshole acts. People put more thought and planning and choice into breaking the windows of a synagogue than into breaking the windows of whatever's handy, or into finding a gay man to bash rather than just bashing the next guy who walks by.

A whole lot of people are racists and don't burn down African-American churches, so there does seem to be a fairly high degree of general-assholishness needed on the part of people who do. That part isn't too amenable to deterrence, unfortunately. But I do tend to think that it's the more decisive factor in the thought-to-act process.

A few years ago I was walking down a main street in urban Canada with one of my best friends (forgive me!) and her parents, who are very secular Jews. I'm usually a noticer, but I didn't notice the kid who walked by with the swastika on his Tshirt until her dad remarked on it, by which time the kid was well past. It's a good bet that kids like that are total all-round assholes, and it would be difficult to sort out the various bits.

I guess what I'm getting at is that all-round assholes who are also racists need to understand that acting out their racism won't be tolerated, any more than any harmful expression of any other bits of their assholishness will be. It's that message that doesn't seem to be getting got, maybe because it isn't being given particularly well.

[superconnected]

28. My church marched in the gay pride parade, 2 years ago

I stood by the few protestors in Seattle, there were two men holding up giant signs that said adam and eve not adam and steve, and the leviticus reference. They also held bibles and asked me and my friends how many pages we rip out

AND, They yelled Synagogs of Satan, as every church group marched by.

It was because all of these churches supported gays.

[Critters2]

36. I serve a gay-friendly church

an Open and Affirming United Church of Christ. Other clergy in town preach against us, call us evil. I 've often thought that arson wouldn't surprise me, considering. So, I feel bad for these churches, whatever their denomination or theology. Freedom means everyone, and they have a right to teach what they believe and be safe doing it...as do we.

[Rich Hunt]

39. those look like the sort of churches...

Those look like the sort of churches that would be deliberately attacked.

They obviously belong to small communities that would be more vulnerable.
And they are more easily destroyed than some gigantic mega-church.

That's very sad.

[Secular Agent Man]

23. I wish people wouldn't burn churches...

I'd much prefer they all be dismantled and put the materials to good use.

[superconnected]

31. I feel the same way about athiest places.

Just kidding.

I can tolerate people having different beliefs than me.

I even like it. I just hope people like yourself that think others peoples religious places should be dismantled quit coming into power. But I still like that you have different beliefs.

[Maddy McCall]

24. These are black/integrated churches-And my story about same thing in Miss.

But I wouldn't be surprised if the arsonists are Southern Baptist.

We had an outbreak of church arsons here in Mississippi 15 years ago, and the arsonists screamed, "Burn, nigger, burn!" as the churches burned to the ground. Arrested was a group of three teen-age boys and one girl. She flipped on the boys and told everything. This was the boys' first offense, so the judge didn't drop the hammer on them. (But it's a pretty giant first offense isn't it? :eyes: )

They did five to seven years in prison, and are back out in their communities, spilling their racist crap. I ran into one of the boys, now a young man, at a local diner one afternoon, but I didn't speak to him, even though I've known him all my life. He saw me smoking a cigarette, and he loudly commented to his friends at the table where he was sitting that he'd NEVER kiss a girl who smokes.

I replied, "You don't have to worry. I'd never kiss a racist arsonist asshole."

My father headed the group of carpenters and contractors who rebuilt the black churches--I was pregnant with MMjr, but I still spent at least three days a week, working at the site. The churches today are nicer than the ones that were burned down, and the people at all of the churches love the men who rebuilt for them, and often invite them to services. The men love them, too.

In an odd way, those four racist kids' actions resulted in exactly the opposite of what they had hoped would happen. The result was greater racial harmony in our area, as well as the establishment of a interracial committee of church people who focus race relations. They hold interracial breakfasts every week, as well as all kinds of events throughout the year. There is more racial harmony AFTER the church burnings than was before.

If there's one thing today's southerners WON'T tolerate, it's church arsonists.

[RedEarth]

32. Hate crimes happen everywhere ... just last week a church in Massachusetts

was shot up in an attempt to drive Brazilian immigrants out of MA. Unfortunately, bigotry, racism, hatred is alive and well through-out our country..... yesterday the gay bar in Massachusetts, today the churches in AL., tomorrow, it will probably be somewhere else.

.......article about Brazilian church

Kingston police are investigating a possible hate crime at First Congregational Parish church early Sunday.

Sometime between 1 and 5 a.m. vandals stole a sign from the church that advertised services for a Brazilian Assembly of God congregation that meets in the Unitarian Universalist church on Sunday evenings.

The sign was returned, riddled with more than 100 bullet holes, and defaced with graffiti reading ''Viva deportation," said the Rev. Bonnie Devlin, minister for the Unitarian congregation. The vandals also covered the sign's Brazilian flag with an American one, she said. ''We deplore what happened," Devlin said. ''It's not acceptable. This is a hate crime."

............


Anti-Brazilian sentiment is on the rise in Massachusetts, said Fausto da Rocha, executive director of the Brazilian Immigrant Center. He said there have been several attacks on Brazilians in Framingham, which has the state's largest Brazilian immigrant population. At the center's Allston office, vandals spray-painted the door last year with the words ''illegal immigrants inside."

''These sentiments keep growing," da Rocha said. ''It is going to destroy Massachusetts. Right now, we have this huge diversity. They want to make this a state just for white people, and all the others they want to kick out."


http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles...

Sign

[iverglas]

33. talk about yer ecumenism!

"... a Brazilian Assembly of God congregation that meets in the Unitarian Universalist church on Sunday evenings."

There actually is a lot more of that sort of thing going on at the grassroots level -- initially driven by economic concerns on both sides in cases like this though it may be ;) -- than meets the casual eye. Where I'm at in Canada, anyhow; sadly, perhaps not as much in at least some parts of the US.

Maddy McCall related above how an attack like these actually fostered various mutually beneficial inter-group contacts that would not otherwise have occurred. It looks like there's some leading by example already well underway in that community. You can usually count on the Unitarians for that!

[superconnected]

38. Sounds like the extreme right.

I doubt the people are being attacked because they are specifically Brazillian. I bet they are being attacked because they aren't white Americans.

Since the extreme white is attacking churches now, I don't think any immigrants are safe.

[RedEarth]

40. It very well could be the extreme right

Bottom line these are just bigoted, hateful people....gays, churches, African Americans, Brazilians all have been attacked by people filled with hate.

[Critters2]

37. 4 of the churches are Southern Baptist

according to the Southern Baptist Convention website sbc.net

I doubt the arsonist(s) is/are SBC.

[Charlie Brown]

34. What a horrible thing to do

Whoever is responsbile should go to jail for the rest of their life.

I know I am supposed to forgive people who do wrong, but this is just revolting.

I hope people here will join me in denouncing this as a hate-crime (that's exactly what it is).

[GoddessOfGuinness]

35. Is this the season for hateful nut cases?

There have been a number of racist and anti-semitic hate crimes around the DC area lately too. :-(

[Tesha]

42. More and more, people are being taught "It's okay to be a brownshirt".

And they're taking the message to heart.

Tesha

[Charlie Brown]

44. DISASTER RELIEF INFO

http://www.alsbom.org/common/content.asp?PAGE=466&CONTENT=1847

The State Board of Missions will be receiving Disaster Relief contributions to assist with the rebuilding of three church facilities in Bibb County, Ala., after fires on the morning of Feb. 3. If you would like to assist with this effort, please make checks payable to: State Board of Missions, P.O. Box 11870, Montgomery, AL 36111, "for Bibb County Church Rebuilding."