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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:33 AM
Original message
BBC : "Economists predict sliding dollar "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4647928.stm


China and US consumers will determine the fate of the global economy in 2006, according to experts at the World Economic Forum.

So far the world economy had been far more resilient than predicted, they said, managing to live with high oil prices and US deficits

...

...economist Stephen Roach said the fact that the dollar had not declined for a third year did not mean the economic fundamentals had changed.

But the panel could not agree on how far the US dollar had to fall.

Laura Tyson, dean of the London Business School, said there was "a substantial dollar decline out there, maybe 30%", although it could come gradually.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. "could not agree on how far the US dollar had to fall"
Wonderful.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:36 AM
Original message
Maybe one reason
they cut the dollar loose was to avoid a precipitous collapse during future radical policies such as the loss of the Petro dollar standard to the Euro. It makes the fall look less shocking and meaningful, but even spread out it a fall nonetheless that can still land hard.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. No shit? nt
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Dollar in the crapper -- Thanks a pantload, George AWOL Bush
This is another failure casused by your and your Republican-neoCON cronies of corruption.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. A failure? Naw, from their point of view, it's an enormous success.
Lots of neocons are also gold bugs. The BFEE is heavily invested in precious metals. And when currency starts to nosedive, people buy gold. Check out the price of gold over the past 10 years:



Gee, what happened in January 2001, coinciding with the beginning of a huge upswing in gold prices?
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Chimp's selection in '00 shows a sheer spike up
Edited on Thu Jan-26-06 10:57 AM by StClone
Followed by a steady increase. While under Clinton Gold price cooled. Not coincidence. These SOB's know how to manipulate for the insiders.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. The CEO President is doing a heckuva job nt
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Yep, he's every bit as good a president as he was a CEO
How many failed businesses did he have to be bailed out from? I keep losing count...
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's seems like the only debate in the last three days is whether decline
will be slow or preciptious.

Comments like these have been all over business wires and in FT articles suddenly in the last couple days.
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Jayhawk Lib Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. Is a sliding dollar a bad thing??
I may be wrong on this but it seems to me that a sliding dollar will make foreign goods more expensive to buy and make the goods in our country more affordable to buy.

That being the case, it should be easier to sell American goods abroad, and the goods made here in America more affordable for Americans to buy.

How can that be a bad thing?
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. We are up to our eyeballs in Repub debt.
That debt has to be financed. Much of it MUST BE financed from overseas, since we have a zero savings rate here. So, if the dollar will decline in value, how do you get foreigners to hold your debt (which is dollar based and falling in value)? The ONLY way is super high interest rates that compensate for the loss in principal value.

There is also an inflationary component. Foreign products that must be sourced from abroad go up in price. Think oil and other natural resources. American goods won't go down in price because the dollar falls, so if they are currently more expensive, the whole economic is pushed to higher prices.

So, you have an inflationary push (foreign goods go up in price, domestic goods stay where they are or go up because of foreign raw material requirements) and a restrictive push (interest rates must go up substantially). The results of a rapid drop in the dollar wouldn't be nice.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. except we don't make any more "American goods" our manufacturing
sector is in the toilet

what it MIGHT do is enable some American entrepreneurs to re-open some factories, but it won't come fast and it will be painful in the meantime

and IIRC when the dollar starts to head down, interest rates will head up, so any gain we make on the overseas goods getting "cheaper" to us will be more than eaten up with interest rates and inflation
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. A devaluation of 30% would provide pain but fix little.
We'd pay 30% more on everything imported, but our average wage would still be many many times more than that of Chinese work houses. We'd still be getting killed with outsourcing.







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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
10. This is not doom and gloom
This is actually a good thing. The yuan is artificially high (for internal Chinese political reasons). A strong dollar makes my trips abroad cheaper but is bad for US industry and services.

If the dollar falls financing our debt will get more expensive. Interest rates most likely go up. But remember our debt to date is already purchased at low interest (for the most part, there is a revolving aspect). If there is some inflation we will be paying off our debt with inflated dollars -- a good thing.

IF (huge if) we can get our domestic spending under control then this is a net benefit for the US.
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Democrats_win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Bad for the already suffering average American--add in cuts in Govt
programs. Americans are going to be squeezed for every last penny from utilities (water, electricity, heat) to taxes and who knows what--our first born for their wars?
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. A falling dollar is inevitable
The only thing that keeps the dollar afloat today is the petrodollar floor. The rest of the world, when they import a barrell of oil, have to exchange their yuan and yen and euros for dollars, because most exporting nations sell their oil in dollars.

The petrodollar dynamic is a dollar-strengthening force that counteracts the weakinging forces represented by our federal deficits, private/corporate debts, and trade imbalances, and allows us as a nation to consume substantially more value than we produce. Without it we will most likely be buying loaves of bread with wheelbarrows of greenbacks.

The petrodollar dynamic is so important that we've already gone to war once (Iraq), conducted one failed CIA coup (Venezuela), and almost certainly will go to war again (Iran). Each of these three oil-exporting nations, Iraq, Venezuela, and Iran, had either switched to Euros or have threatened and continue to threaten to switch. This is the achilles heel in US economic hegemony and our owning and political classes will fight aggressively to protect it.

Take out the support of the petrodollar, then we'll either need to contract consumption to the point where we have zero trade imbalances and zero deficits, or we'll have to augment the attractiveness of our debt instruments to incredible degrees. Since we can't mandate decreased consumption, the likely course is substantially rising interest rates and accelerating inflation. Either way, in the end, the standard of living for most Americans will markedly decline.

Further, a weak dollar means U.S. real assets will be on the auction block. Recall the post Plaza Accord weakness of the dollar during the Reagan-Bush years: The U.S. went from owning 3.4x more of the world than the world owned of us, to the world owning 0.7x more of us than we of them, in just 6 years. Each of us, those that continue to have a job, will be working for French and German and Japanese and Chinese companies. In the end, this will be the greatest threat to our soverignty, as USG policies will have to take in to account the need to preserve good will with these nations and their firms.

We have made an awful mess of our situation in the world, and it began in November of 1980 when Ronald Reagan's henchman cut a deal with Iranian hostage holders to cement the theft of that election. It has continues since, despite a brief respite of moral leadership (yes, Freeper, I said moral!) when Clinton was in the White House and we still had control of Congress.

Escalator going down! says the grinning Republithug devils! I recall with a chill when Chalmers Johnson said, in a Bookclub reading, that we Americans ought to get out now, while we still can, before our borders are closed and the oligarchy makes use of its domestic internment camps; get out now, buy that condo in Vancouver or villa in Costa Rica while the dollar makes it still affordable. He meant it, and his fear was based on his assessment of the extreme militarism of our society -- that military-industrial-plutocratic class will not let go of their advantage without a fight, and it won't be pretty, and their sons and daughters won't be the ones to fight it.

Interesting times, indeed! (So goes the Confusican curse.)

    The illusion of freedom in America will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre.
    --Frank Zappa, 1977



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lagavulin Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. In all seriousness, it's only in the U.S. that the coming Depression...
...is being ignored. I don't know why that is, really--I don't believe it's a "conspiracy" by the MSM or anything (although it certainly is one by various government economic agencies which publish employment numbers, economic indicators, monetary growth numbers and such). More than that it seems that there is an "institutionalized" mindframe by American reporters...most of whom are shamefully unqualified to perform their job duties. I mean there is no intelligent argument or questioning or independent thinking in the MSM anymore, it's just a parroting of "spin" and conventional themes....

Anyway, readers on this thread might be interested in watching the video of this news report (runs about 10 1/2 minutes) which aired very recently on the New Zealand news program "Close-Up" to get an idea how bad things are looking. And I'd also add that there are many, many intelligent analysts and experience financiers who also see a second, global Depression starting to unfold for the Western economies of the world.

I just say this as an FYI, not trying to argue the situation one way or another. Like Einstein supposedly wrote--if you truly understand the facts you will believe the theory; until then, there's no point in my trying to argue with you. (Something to that effect anyway).

Cheers!
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KitSileya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I checked out that video.
It was very interesting. There are a lot of people here on DU who do believe an economic perfect storm is coming. How to prepare for that is not easy to know.

I noticed that Jim Mellon co-wrote his book with a 'Al Chalabi' - anyone we know?
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OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. You Are Not Alone In Your Belief nt
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