Winter Olympics under threat from 40,000 violent protesters

[Clara T]

The Times
December 10, 2005

Winter Olympics under threat from 40,000 violent protesters
From Richard Owen in Rome

THE Winter Olympic Games in Turin are at risk, Italy said yesterday, as protests by tens of thousands of people against the construction of an Alpine high-speed rail link turned violent.

<snip>

Eighty per cent of the events in the 20th Winter Games, which run from February 10 to 26, are being staged not in Turin itself but in the nearby Val Di Susa, which is the centre of the protests against a new rail tunnel through the mountains.

The area, normally a picturesque winter playground of peaks, snow and hairpin bends, this week turned into a bloody battleground between demonstrators and riot police, with teargas drifting across the Alpine scenery.
Dozens of protesters and police have been injured. Roads and motorways have been blocked, cutting off not only Olympic sites but also ski resorts. Police said that the number of protesters had swollen to 40,000.

The demonstrations were begun by local residents opposed on environmental grounds to the 33-mile (53km) tunnel, part of a high-speed line that will link Turin and Lyons and eventually run from Lisbon to Kiev.
They fear that tunnelling through asbestos and uranium deposits will cause long-term health risks as well as damage the landscape, and say that existing rail lines could be developed instead.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1918780,00.html

[awoke_in_2003]

1. Silly Europeans...

nothing says "picturesque" more than a high-speed rail line :sarcasm:

Sorry about that, but when will we learn to leave such beautiful places (the Alps, the Rockies, etc) alone.

[Ian David]

2. The problem is the uranium and asbestos they're digging through

I'd rather have a high-speed rail line than huge superhighways and more air traffic.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

12. Question for you:

How do you get from Turin to Lyon without going through the alps?

[awoke_in_2003]

14. the old fashioned way

hike it :)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

15. How about cycling?

I've always wanted to bike the Alps.

[awoke_in_2003]

25. That would be great

take the same route as the Tour

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. AT 1/8th the speed. :) n/t

[AngryAmish]

18. Elephants

Hannibal did it

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

22. Funny thought...

Pooper scoopers for elephant dung. :)

[malmapus]

24. Ahhh, Hannibal. Is there anything that man couldn't do

Other than finally finishing off Rome. :D

[Endangered Specie]

3. I cant say I much approve of the olympics either.

Utter waste of time money and resources.


Especially since China is going to be hosting one :crazy:

[Barrett808]

7. Hard to find a more corrupt and essentially fascist outfit than the IOC

Okay, the Bush mafia crime family is worse...

[Rich Hunt]

8. yeah, everything fun is fascistic these days

Violent protesting is cool, especially when it opposes the international pig fascist olympics.

All athletes are elitist master race thugs anyway. Let's overthrow the establishment of the
beautiful people and all live in trees.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. It seems to me that they're protesting the possible destruction

of their homes and lives by environmental damage, rather than the Olympics per se. I'm sure it would be nicer for you if they were protesting the Olympics, since you could then make it seem as ridiculous as such a thing would be. But in fact they are not protesting that. They are protesting what they see to be a real threat to their livelihoods and the region, and they've even - shock of shocks - explained why they believe that. Nee3dless to say, "violence" goes both ways, unless you suppose that vthe protesters are firing CS gas. But then, I know some truly fascistic thugs do believe in the state monopoly on violence, but I'm sure you don't, since you seem upright on that point, and honest.

A nice attempt at sarcasm, in any case, but you missed the mark way wide.

[Rich Hunt]

30. look upthread

That's what some people are implying.

Don't think I haven't seen the puritanical 'all sports are fascist' sentiments expressed around here.

[wordpix2]

4. good. People are finally making a stand to stave off developers who

think they can build whatever they damn well please without public processes and approvals, or by getting around them in sneaky ways.

My small town just had a school parking lot built near my property line and since they knew I and other neighbors would raise hell during the required land use hearings, they went ahead with the construction without hearings and without permits. Nice. I hate these people. Thank you, Europe, for standing up against corporate profiteers.

[niallmac]

5. Forty thousand people is quite a crowd.

My broad generalized impression of Italy and protests is that they are not as shy as Americans about taking it to the streets.

[Tesha]

16. They had a better demonstration of what happens...

> My broad generalized impression of Italy and protests is that they are not as
> shy as Americans about taking it to the streets.

They had a better demonstration of what happens when fascism is allowed to go unopposed;
we still have that lesson to learn here at home.

Tesha

[Hypatia82]

6. Most European rail service...

is state owned either directly or indirectly by state created corporations. So if the government wants to, it pretty well can. Also with rail lines there's only so many places you can put them and highspeed rail offers a great alternative to driving or even flying in some cases. Now as for the school parking lot, why on earth would anyone complain about a school building a parking lot?

[Algorem]

9. don't mess with the curlers they'll hit you with those broom things

could leave a mark

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. High-speed rail is a hell of a lot more environmentally friendly

than the more typical alternative of a four-lane highway.

[Clara T]

11. Beware of false choices n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

13. So the Italians should just stay put, eh? n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Speaking on behalf of the Italians, now?

I get it:

All the Iraqis who don't believe in the new Iraqi puppet regime aren't really Iraqis.

All Italians who don't want the snazzy, empowering, freedom-enducing, convenience-producing, economic-development boosting, general good will conducing, utopian high-speed rail system (and it starts with "T" which rhymes with Marioletti, doncha know?) aren't really Italians.

Love-er-ly....

Do me a favor. Look up I-99, Pennsylvania, and environmental damage. You'll see, I think, that the "fake Pennsylvanians" should have been doing what the "fake Italians" are now doing. I'm sure these protesters use this recent PA clusterfuck as evidence.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

23. So because I-99 is a clusterfuck...

...that means that every transport project is a clusterfuck. Right. Despite your sarcastic description of the high-speed rail network, it remains one of the safest and most environmentally sound methods of transporting people from place to place. I honestly can't understand why people would support this NIMBYism over a project that's supported by a huge spectrum of society - everyone from the left-leaning Italian national parties to the wingnut Italian government to the Italian trade unions, the EU, and the French Green party. The Italian government has already agreed to conduct a more thorough environmental review which is necessary. Unfortunately, the same people who are claiming fears of environmental damage are preventing the environmental asessment from moving forward.

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. No, it means every transportation project

Has the potential to be a clusterfuck, which is a fairly obvious claim I think you will agree with. Besides, I think you know I was saying that, and you're now only exaggerating my position for effect. The astonishing thing about the particular I-99 clusterfuck, in any case, is that all these assessments were done and passed on and all the parallel groups smiling and happy, with only a small proportion of locale nutjobs "NIMBYites" warning that up-ending Skytop would fuck the area but good (they weren't specific on how, however, and I think the volume of acid rock surprised everybody). Now there's only the clean-up for the assessors to back-slap over. And good luck if you're on well-water in the basin. Be sure to read the documents about bringing the dreck out in small proportions in order to avoid endangering the drivers on central PA's roads. A real charming story there, to be sure.

Now, I think we can argue reasonably without the usual insults. Quite frankly, I don't know as much about the situation in Italy as I do about the situation in Central PA. And I'm not even sure I support the protesters. But I don't dismiss them out of hand, either, anymore than I would dimiss the assessments made by the government out of hand. I certainly wouldn't impute that they're standing in the way of the "Italians" right to "transportation" - such a thing would always have to be weighed against their own right to their homes and livelihoods, it seems to me. And I don't have the information to weigh that.

[Peace Patriot]

29. NIMBYism? All environmentalism is "NIMBYism." All environmental problems

are local. "NIMBY" ("not in my backyard") is a term used by developers, exploiters, polluters, planet-destroyers and smart-ass leftists to dis local people who value their local environment and don't want it ruined.

"...a project that's supported by a huge spectrum of society - everyone from the left-leaning Italian national parties to the wingnut Italian government to the Italian trade unions, the EU, and the French Green party." --yibbehobba

Does this "huge spectrum of society" LIVE THERE? Does it have to suffer the impacts? No. Local people do. And local people, and ONLY local people, should have a say in massive disruptions of their environment. I repeat, ONLY LOCAL PEOPLE should have a say. Big government out. Big corporate out. Big politics out. Big money out. Big enviro groups--sometimes the biggest sell-outs of local people--out. Let the people who suffer the impacts decide!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

31. No.

nd local people, and ONLY local people, should have a say in massive disruptions of their environment.

Your idea that only local populations should have a say in projects of continent-wide importance is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Nothing could ever be built. Oh, except next to poor people who are too powerless to fight it. Sounds like a wonderful world.

I'm glad that most people have more sense than that.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

20. Why aren't they developing the existing lines?

It's hard to believe that building a tunnel and dealing with the aftermath issues of asbestos and uranium poisoning lawsuits would be cheaper than updating the existing track.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. The existing link...

...is incapable of supporting high-speed TGV trains. These trains need tracks and routes specifically designed and engineered for TGV. The only way you can get a straight enough path for high speed through the alps is a tunnel.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

28. Thank you...

Too bad the article doesn't mention this. :-(