NH abortion law (w/no health exemption) goes before Supreme Court

[bettyellen]

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — To some, a never-enforced New Hampshire law requiring parental notification before a minor has an abortion is a backward step for women's rights. To others, it protects parents' right to know if their child is having an abortion.
The U.S. Supreme Court will consider those arguments Wednesday as it begins to weigh whether to reinstate a law that requires parental notification 48 hours before an abortion can be performed on a woman under the age of 18.

The 2003 law was struck down, days before it was to take effect,
for failing to provide an exception to protect a minor's health.
Under the law, parents or guardians must be notified either in person or by certified mail.

Supporters of the law say a provision that allows a young woman to go to a judge instead of a parent provides needed protection if her health is in danger.
Opponents, however, say the law's requirements could lead to dangerous delays and result in judges making medical decisions instead of doctors. They also view the law as an ill-disguised attempt by abortion opponents to chip away at Roe v. Wade, the landmark 1973 decision that legalized abortion.


more.....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-11-26-supremecourtabortionlaw_x.htm

[tritsofme]

1. Its a good thing Scalito probably won't be there to vote on it,

If O'Connor is still around for the vote, she would probably strike it down.

If she leaves before the vote and Scalito didn't hear any arguments and doesn't vote it will probably be a 4-4 decision and the lower court ruling will stand.

[CityDem]

16. Maybe not

If O'Connor is around when the case is decided, she will be able to vote. If Alito is confirmed in late January and the case appears to be evenly divided, Roberts can ask for a new hearing with Alito present. I doubt Sandy will be around to vote on this one. If Alito does participate, we know he will vote anti choice.

[cornermouse]

2. Excuse me...

Bush gave the military carte blanche to go after our children without specific parental notification and permission while they are still in high school. They aren't 18 either.

[baltlib]

3. i know some will disagree

but i personally see an abortion as a medical procedure, so i think the parents should be notified.

i mean how you feel if you daughter went to the hospital and had her tubes tied at 16 with out you knowing, or your son ( also age 16 )decided to have his nose removed because it was the LATEST thing.they cant do it because they have to have parental permission for a medical procedure. but i do feel a 16 YO girl should be able to get the morning after pill with out permission.

if you feel that your daughter does not need to inform you then you should loose the right to sue the doctor if she gets permanently sterilized by him/her by accident. and sense your daughter at age 16 can't file a law suit, then the doctor gets off scott free. how would that make you feel.

[bettyellen]

4. "sense" when are women "accidentally sterilized" when terminating

a pregnancy? and a law suit can't be brought on behalf of a minor?

did you even notice the part about there being no exewmption if the girls health is in danger? yeah, let her go to court (she can, you know) and waste precious time trying to get the judge to make the medical decisions instead of her and her doc dealing with it.

[baltlib]

5. well, when she is in danger

eta : i am not saying they are sterilized all the time but it has happened, including to a woman i know after an abortion at age 18 she had to have a hysterectomy. also i was just trying to show an extreme point, as in the statement of if they did not know, then they should/would/could loose the option. in my post she would have to wait till she was 18 before she could sue

as for when the pregnacy can be a life threat...legally they have to notify the parents, because it is a health risk. at least as far as i know, and the way it would be found to be a health risk, is when her parents take her to the doctor, because she can't just go on her own to see her doctor

[Erika]

9. Do you have a link to such stats?

I don't know of a single person who got an abortion and had such an experience.

[baltlib]

13. well a childhood friend had it happen and

from a quick search on google showed a snippet that said about 4 % of abortions lead to accidental sterilization, although i could not find it on the page, and it was a christian health site. so i would say cut their numbers in half... so we will say 2 % have it happen. now how many ever even know about it, or don't find out till 10 years later when trying to have a child and then it gets blamed on something else.

btw my friend from child hood almost died, she had it done out of state so they would not tell her parents and she almost died in her car on the way home, she hemorrhaged at a rest stop when the person who drove her went in to get some food.

i am personally in favor of abortion, except partial birth, at that point the body would survive if given normal care

[Samurai_Writer]

19. Secondary Infertility is a huge risk for birthmothers in adoption...

"Mothers are not told that they will have a 40-60% chance of secondary infertility."

from http://www.keepyourbaby.com/adoption_myths.html

Maybe we should make it a law that parents have to be notified when their daughters surrender their children for adoption? Currently, a pregnant minor is considered emancipated under the law. She can have any medical procedure done (except abortion in some states) without her parents' knowledge or consent, if it relates to the pregnancy. She can also sign away her parental rights, even though she is a minor. Why are people so upset about minors getting abortions without parental notification when they can raise a child without parental notification or surrender their child for adoption without parental notification? Adoption is much riskier for young women than abortion, physically, mentally and emotionally. The effects of it last forever, in most cases. With abortion, most of the time it is quick, safe, and most women feel relief when it's over.

Another good website about the adoption industry is http://www.exiledmothers.com/adoption_facts/adoption_industry.html.

[bettyellen]

20. you are referencing stats that you are sure are made up and not even

linking them.... and adding the the old "i know someone it happened to"
wow, thanks for what amounts to nothing.
please reread the article, there is usually an exemption- from teling the parents when it is a health risk to keep the pregnancy. that's the point of the article. this law is missing it, and that's why they are fighting the case.

[Tesha]

25. An eminently trustworthy source!

> although i could not find it on the page, and it was a christian health site

And *THEY* would *NEVER, EVER* lie, of course!

Google should reveal a true statistic to you in about 3 seconds.
Spend the time.

Tesha

[sonicx]

6. If my daughter needed an abortion, i'd want her to tell me by herself

not through state coercion.

<<you then you should loose the right to sue the doctor if she gets permanently sterilized by him/her by accident>>

um, why?

[wickerwoman]

10. What you're not considering is the family situation

of these young women. Some of them are pregnant as a result of incest or sexual abuse. So your father or step-father rapes you and then you're supposed to go to him to get permission for an abortion? And we know that in this kind of situation the mother is usually in denial and won't believe the girl was raped.

Even in situations that don't involve rape, most of these kids come from families where pre-marital sex is either looked at as a sin, or (at a minimum) discouraged. The girls are almost certainly terrified that they will be punished for having sex. Let's face it- it's embarrassing as hell to have to tell your parents that you're a sexual being. So how many of those kids would rather a.) kill themselves, b.) run away from home, or c.) perform a DIY abortion. I'm betting a pretty significant percentage. My parents weren't evil, or draconian. They were very matter of fact about sex ed. And still, at 16 I doubt I could have physically formed the words "Mom, I'm pregnant." I probably would have run away.

So I think, in a lousy situation, that allowing minors to get abortions without parental consent is a lesser evil than putting them in a situation where they feel that their only recourse is suicide, hitting the streets, or self-mutilation.

[Megahurtz]

28. Right On bezdomny! Good Post!

:thumbsup:

[Solon]

12. Who said parents need to be notified about ANY medical situation that...

comes up. In any situation where a child has a condition that is life threatening, the parents' rights take a backseat compared to the child's. And yes, Pregnancy can be considered life threatening, or at least, dehabilitating, so what is the difference?

[Hekate]

14. In and of itself teen pregnancy is a health crisis; they are "at risk"

Young girls who get pregnant and carry a baby to term are very much at risk in terms of their health. And this, unlike stories about accidental sterilizations and cancer resulting from abortions, is actually backed up by fact.

This is also fact: Most women involve their husbands, and most girls involve their parents, in these serious decisions. They don't need a law like this. The ones who need to be protected are those who know damn well that news of an unauthorized pregnancy is going to earn them a beating they'll remember the rest of their lives.

Hekate

[thereismore]

15. I think parental notification is another way for the gov't to invade

our families. The gov't cannot mandate what you may or may not say to your parents. I am fairly libertarian in that way. Having said that, I am against abortion and I hope everybody would choose alternate solutions (adoption).

[pschoeb]

22. Actually minors can sue for medical malpractice

That happened to them as a minor, but their parents failed to sue, as soon as the turn 18, so your "concern" is misplaced. Parental consent is not needed for medical emergencies, and yes the parents can still sue the doctor if he screws up the procedure.

Doctors could not remove noses, and still keep a medical license. Having your tubes tied is not an emergency medical procedure, it's not even a procedure that can treat a current medical condition, so would be considered (much like nose removal, if anyone would ever do it) an elective procedure, that is, there is no medical reason for doing it. Also, at least in the case of "nose removal", the kid would have to foot the bill, as no insurance company is going to pay for it.

By the way, I love your straw-man arguments.

[Gormy Cuss]

23. In a perfect world I'd agree that parents should know.

Daughters should always be able to go to a loving parent for guidance in a difficult situation, pregnancy being one of the most difficult for a teen. The problem is that we don't live in a perfect world. Legislating mandatory parental notification isn't going to fix it either.

As for your question about how I would feel if my 16 year old was sterilized as a result of a legal abortion, I wouldn't be happy but I would prefer that to a dead daughter or one who hides a pregnancy, gives birth and kills or causes the death of a newborn by abandonment. Obviously, the best option would be to have teens who never face these choices but again, we don't live in a perfect world.

I knew a woman whose tubes were tied when she was 16. The state did it for her after she gave birth to a healthy baby. She wasn't asked, but her mother signed off on it. It was a pretty common 'remedy' for incorrigible girls in the 1940s.

[ismnotwasm]

7. God, I wish the government would stay out of it

First, I wish there was always open dialog between young women and their parents so they could discuss sex, sexuality, options from abstinence to abortion without all this government sponsored stigma. That being said,
Conservatives want to ban, or control sex education in public schools. They seem to want to pretend that teenagers haven't been having sex since their have been teenagers. This limits information, and denies the reality of teenagers already having sex.

Then they want to take advantage of every opportunity to control a womans right to choose. Even something seemingly reasonable, like parental notification is just opening that back door to taking away women's rights.

I know of terrified young women who have taken certain drugs to try to induce abortion, or aborted themselves with a pencil rather than face their parents, or even go to a clinic. There are a lot of dangerous urban legends out there, that may well induce abortion, but at a very high risk to the young woman. And we've all heard the sensationalized stories of women carrying a fetus to term, and then leaving the infant in a McDonald's, or a garbage can. They then get prosecuted, often for attempted murder.

Young women who are sexually active, or who are thinking about it, need access to all the information they can get. (Including abstinence teaching- Sometimes young women need to be told "you don't have to if you don't want to", not "you shouldn't, it's wrong.") All the health care they can get. All the birth control they can get. Often they don't approach their parents until it's too late. Out of shame or fear, or whatever other emotion, is a individual thing. But these same young women need access to abortion without judgment.

[Erika]

8. A female who is capable of getting pregnant

is capable of making her own decision as to the pregnancy. The ideal would be if the young female had enough faith and trust in the parents to inform them.

If she doesn't, they have failed as parents. She shouldn't have to notify them nor any bureaucratic judge.

[HuffleClaw]

11. disgusting

this simply forces a girl to be subject to a judges PERSONAL views (and most likely a MALE judge at that) and i've read a similar story in some southern state where judges have come right out and said 'i'll NEVER permit that in my courtroom' so...

[Judi Lynn]

17. Court to Weigh Never-Enforced Abortion Law

Court to Weigh Never-Enforced Abortion Law
By HOLLY RAMER
Associated Press Writer

November 26, 2005, 11:34 PM EST

CONCORD, N.H. -- To some, a never-enforced New Hampshire law requiring parental notification before a minor has an abortion is a backward step for women's rights. To others, it protects parents' right to know if their child is having an abortion.

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider those arguments Wednesday as it begins to weigh whether to reinstate a law that requires parental notification 48 hours before an abortion can be performed on a minor.

The 2003 law was struck down, days before it was to take effect, for failing to provide an exception to protect a minor's health. Under the law, parents or guardians must be notified either in person or by certified mail.

Supporters of the law say a provision that allows a girl to go to a judge instead of a parent provides needed protection if her health is in danger.
(snip/...)

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-abortion-parental-notification,0,5833222.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

[Erika]

18. This is utter insanity!

A young girl who is pregnant must forego her own health to satisfy far right wingers or go before a judge? She is deemed incapable of making a decision of abortion on her own, but the court doesn't allow her medical consideration as a factor?

Please rid us of these right wing loonies.

[bettyellen]

21. well, it was struck down once because Planned Parenthood fought it

and now they have to again in the SC.

[bettyellen]

24. kicked

[Tesha]

26. Curiously enough, it's now a Democratic administration backing this law.

Lynch, the recently-elected allegedly-Democratic Governor, had the
opportunity to drop the suit (and to drop the Republican-appointed
Attorney General who's promoting the suit) but he chose to do
neither, re-appointing the Republican A.G. ans allowing this
rather-important case to reach the U.S. Supreme Court.

This is just another example of why people can't see any difference
between Democrats and Republicans.

Tesha

[bettyellen]

27. good point tesha, and the lack of medical exemption makes this a huge

case. a youth could be denied life saving medical care because she's scared to tell her mom or dad. totally fucked up. nothing should ever come between a woman and adequate medical care, it's so wrong.