Ad Guru Resigns Over Remarks About Women

[deadparrot]

LONDON - One of the world's most flamboyant advertising gurus has left his job after reportedly telling an audience that women made poor executives because motherhood made them "wimp out."

Marketing giant WPP Group PLC said Friday it had accepted the resignation of Neil French — a one-time debt collector, trainee matador and rock-band agent who served as the group's worldwide creative director.

The firm, which is based in London and New York, told Britain's Press Association news agency that French had offered his resignation, and it had been accepted. WPP could not immediately be reached for comment by The Associated Press.

French made the contentious remarks during an industry discussion in Toronto on Oct. 6. According to a report in the city's Globe and Mail newspaper, French said women did not make it to the top because "they're crap."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051023/ap_on_bi_ge/britain_sexism_row

[OKDem08]

1. F-him! n/t

[niallmac]

2. Bye bye.

[shenmue]

3. Let him try giving birth...

That's very "wimpy."

What a dumb-ass.

[madeline_con]

5. I was gonna say...

but you beat me to it. :)

[jobycom]

6. ROFLMAO!!!!! Best comeback of the night! nt.

[NashVegas]

19. And Not at All Creative

...

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nashville_brook]

35. men who don't see the STRENGTH in women are WEAK men at heart

and vice versa, vury much!
:loveya:
my hubby is running CONDUIT and re-wiring the basement with SEPARATE CIRCUITS every four feet and 220 lines and shit...!...i told him last nite that there's nothing sexier than a man in the basement doing his thang.

[Arugula Latte]

59. I pushed my first one for four hours.

No epidural.

Let's see this asshat try THAT!

[niyad]

4. good riddance to at least one MCP

[nookiemonster]

7. What a jagoff.

Hopefully he'll be subordinate to women for the rest of his life.

Trainee matador? BWAHAHAHAHA

[nashville_brook]

15. motivational speaker

like in Magnolia.

[jobycom]

8. Dude must have really hated his mommy. The cigar is a dead giveaway

[smirkymonkey]

26. Here's a photo of the jerk...

[calimary]

51. Ah yes. The executive "chew toy."

Fuck you, schmuck-face! And your longer-than-it-is-wide adult pacifier, too! Just like the sentiments voiced earlier in this thread - I'd like to see YOU birth a baby, ASSHOLE!!!!!!!

[jayctravis]

9. Flamboyant as he may be, that was pretty stupid.

A male cannot be a mother, I doubt he should be calling them pussies. A woman could get away with saying that, but not a man.

[Hello_Kitty]

10. And of course, if you opt out of motherhood

You are an unnatural, castrating bitch. Can't win with these assholes, can we?

[jobycom]

31. Oh yeah, you can win with them

Barefoot, pregnant, learn to cook, then turn the other way when they start sleeping with the new girls trying to get ahead. Don't sue them for child support when they throw you out for the new Barbie.

It's just that winning with them is losing at everything else.

[Maraya1969]

11. Don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

12. I expect mouth-breathers to start saying this idiot was

"persecuted by feminazis."

[smirkymonkey]

13. It has never occurred to this idiot that there are women in high

places who neither have nor want children.

"Singapore-based French — who during the Toronto event was served drinks onstage by a woman in a French maid's uniform — was unrepentant.

In an interview with the Globe and Mail published Friday, French said there were few female creative directors "because you can't commit yourself to the job."

"You can't be a great creative director and have a baby and keep spending time off every time your kids are ill," he was quoted as saying."


Also, what's with describing him as "flamboyant"? Is that code for "gay"?

[nashville_brook]

17. in creative work you can be flamboyant and not-gay...it's EGO

you can't be a creative director and a decent HUMAN BEING is more like it.

there's a viral film by that guy on Whose Line is it Anyway -- TRUTH IN ADVERTISING --
http://www.studio2f.com/misc/2003/08/18truth_in_advertising.php

IT'S A MUST SEE if you really really want to know what it's like to be a creative director! i just watched it again and it reaffirmed by belief in god.

[nashville_brook]

14. so, like was he Gene Simmons' agent? i'm a woman and creative director

and I"LL TELL YOU why women get out of the game. it's because it's full of asshats like French.

we had a long-lost friend over the other night. he was the guitar player in hubby's band when i was in college. after the band stopped touring he went to nursing school and is now a Critical Care Nurse.

we were doing the dozens while he strummed a ukelele and asked him if his job was anything like "ER" on tv. he said "it's a job. we don't freak out everytime someone goes critical. we can't or else we'd be rotten nurses." he pantomimed giving CPR to a patient and chatting about what's for lunch in the cafeteria.

hubby and me stopped in our tracks. "you mean, it's not like, a LIFE OR DEATH situation?"

guitar playing nurse: "no way."

me and hubby: "then WHY the HELL, are our jobs (marketing and software) always freakoramas?"

when i was working it was COMMON that every little job was a LIFE AND DEATH situaltion. "THE PMS COLORS AREN'T MATCHING!...WHEN ARE THE PROOFS GONNA BE READY?...CLIENT IS SCREAMING FOR COPY...etc etc." the calls would come on Thanksgiving...after midnight...when i was in crisis with sick relatives...dying parents....

women get out of the GAME b/c the GAME (as the boyz play it) is BULLSHIT. marketing is not life or death. being a mother/wife/human IS LIFE. we don't "CRAP." the game is CRAP.

no amount of money is worth living in a world of constant emergency. oh, and you know what the emergency always is...someones' big fat ego. no more.

(ps -- i got out of the game b/c i tired of the shit. i'm childless. i'd much rather be baking bread, writing and working on my wonderful life with my wonderful husband than spending all my emotional energy on vapid sycophants and hucksters.)

[smirkymonkey]

16. Thank you! Truer words have never been spoken....

"women get out of the GAME b/c the GAME (as the boyz play it) is BULLSHIT. marketing is not life or death. being a mother/wife/human IS LIFE. we don't "CRAP." the game is CRAP.

no amount of money is worth living in a world of constant emergency. oh, and you know what the emergency always is...someones' big fat ego. no more."

I actually think I am going to print that out and paste it on my (home) computer.

I work in the same kind of environment and recognize that it's all bullshit, but I need a paycheck. Even though there are now a lot more women in the workplace - the workplace itself is still essentially masculine (competitive, hierarchical, harsh & uncaring)

[nashville_brook]

25. we are struggling on one income, but it's WORTH it

advertising was "mistake" for me. i wasn't supposed to EVER be employable, much less as a high paid creative director. i was a philosophy major with grad school in what i euphemistically call "social theory" but my specialty was MARXISM!

the advertising i did was in economic development and healthcare. some arts and non-profit (and the atmosphere wasn't much better). i've done music biz, and publishing all based on the fact that i ran a radical newspaper and production company/design firm right out of school b/c i couldn't find a job. so when i got out of the mountains i rose pretty quick having managerial and ownership experience. teehee...never told anyone the CONTENT of our work.

BUT the profession WORE me out. i LOVE "the work" as in photo shoots, brainstorming and working with creatives but i cannot tolerate the politics, the ASSKISSING. i'm really really BAD at asskissing. don't have the genes. also don't have the genes to CARE when i'm being manipulated.

the day i decided to pack it in: my beloved Mr Chompers (my dog) went missing on thanksgiving. i told my "partner" i was leaving an hour early to walk the nighborhood and look for him. i had my cell phone if he needed me. i'm out walking and he's calling EVERY 5 MINUTEs wanting my to WALK HIM THRU making changes on a fucking classified ad. i shit you not. i had no sooner hung up on him that my phone rang again. it was someone who knew my dogs whereabouts...he slowly told me Mr Chompers was dead. i was devastated. an NO, my partner NEVER stopped calling me that night about his fucking classified ad EVEN AFTER i told him my dog was gone.

the next day i went to work and got all kinds of SHIT from this sycophantic short-guy-syndromed little puke. "get real. it's only a dog. an ANIMAL. we eat them." blah blah blah.

see my thread sorta kinda taking up where this leaves off:

on PETA and puppy mills: meet my dog TROUBLE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5134234

[smirkymonkey]

27. So typical of the corporate asshole-bot....

What a bastard! And I am so sorry about your dog - the older I get, the more I find their company vastly preferable to the human sort.

I actually went back to grad school (for a "kinder, gentler discipline - I was in finance) just to get away from the sickness of the corporate world.

Unfortunately I have found the same bullshit everywhere, whether it's Wall Street or Non-Profit. The sickest people always rise to the top. What does that say about our society?

[nashville_brook]

33. here's a BIG secret

non-profits can be worse b/c they are run by the princesses of society. think about nashville for moment and conjure the image. these are by and large intelligent, cool women just like me but their names are Frist, etc. not that they are all republican -- it's not THEM per se -- it's the ass-clingers. i was burned pretty hard by the assclingers -- the real "flamboyant" exec who is so gay and just PREYS on women in that "i'll let you be my faghag and you get me into the Swan Ball." :)

where was i... i'm having post-trauma again... where's my DOG! :) see how it works!

oh, non-profits, i was getting to the BIG secret. here it is: the dems are just like non-profits but with POOR and YOUNG people in the mix. omg the asskissing. the groupthink. the backstabbing. i can't deal. i have a lot to offer and have tried tried tried...but just can't deal.

i have a PLACE in this world but it's not doing things the "right" way.

it's PUT ME IN THE ZOO. plus, having a near death experience with an infection in my spine makes you realize HOW SHORT life is. i was in a hospital for months and nearly died from like 3 different things that came from no where and no one could figure it out.

nope, life is short. better to bake bread and talk on DU! :) and write. and clean the basement and hug my hubby and my dogs and make soup.

[smirkymonkey]

39. My god, I think you are my long lost twin!

I haven't had an NDE, but have been through some things that have made me reach the same conclusions you have.

"...nope, life is short. better to bake bread and talk on DU! :) and write. and clean the basement and hug my hubby and my dogs and make soup."

That is almost how I would describe my ideal life - except I would substitute "travel in (and possibly live) Euorpe" for "clean the basement." :)

P.s. if you are so inclined, could you pm me about your nde? I am very fascinated by such things. Thanks!

[nashville_brook]

43. sure -- might make a post -- it relates to medical mistakes.

it was a slow descent into back pain, blood clots, not being able to walk, turning yellow, running a super high fever for days and then it went away. one day i was leaving the house to drive to florida and my back broke. just literally broke. it felt like something sprayed inside of my back. like a disc had exploded. that was followed by weeks in the hospital. morphine pumps for months -- turned out i had infection in my spine. i was in a constant state of satori either from pain or drugs. i almost slipped away like 3 times over the course of a few months, having my first experience with morphine -- in massive quantities. hubby went into a DARK depression. my relatives came for death watch. the spastic pain was so bad i prayed to die. then i'd get so overmedicated there were angels everywhere. but they looked like bunnies. i shit you not. 2-dimensional BUNNIES. like BUNNY BREAD ("that's what i said"). i was in a catholic hospital and there were modern-style crucifixes everywhere in the sight of a patient laying on their back. even in imaging rooms. i watched Zoolander on my laptop about a hundred times and woke up everyday singing "Wake me up before you go go..." no matter how SICK i was. When all was said and done i had lost 2 disks in my back and have a dormant "something" in my vertebrae for the rest of my life. my liver and pancreas are damaged. and i have constant pain in my legs (vascular), back and hips (arthritis), and have to be extra careful or else i spend days vomiting or in bed with the back.

each time i had a major crisis...loss of consciousness from fever, etc...there was a whole party going on in my mind. i was with people and there was HISTORY. which was real weird. i knew them but didn't. the "slipping away" hallucinations were crispy clear like a cold night. we were surrounded by BLACKness but is wasn't foreboding. it was like a stage -- if you've ever done theater, there's "that stage feeling." the flat black paint and hallowness. it was like that. the "people" were shiney, sharpe and angular-seeming. very much not like me. i'm short and stout. these people were slick. there was a tonal thing going on too. bells. tinkling bells. and something geometric that seemed to have to do with the auditory hallucination.

i wish i could travel to europe and my husband does too. i panic on planes. can't deal with a long plane trip anytime soon. but i'm totally into hopping in the car and living out of it for stretches of time. i'd like to do a NC/SC coast thing soon. Maine. Grand Canyon. stuff like that. i don't have the itchy feet tho. i'd be just as happy reading and gardening.

[smirkymonkey]

47. Thanks for sharing that....

I sometimes wonder if consciousness is all there is. I have had my perceptions altered in such a way that made my "real" life seem like a dream - that it was a very narrow slice of all that can be perceived by the human mind.

Acutally, once when I was having a bad "shroom" trip I felt like I had experienced this very fast life review in an instant, but it slowed down at certain crucial moments. However they were the moments that never stood out for me consciously, but where I had made some slight decision that altered the course of my life. It was the freakiest thing I have ever experienced. I never took them again.

[Auntie Bush]

45. Me too!

"P.s. if you are so inclined, could you pm me about your nde? I am very fascinated by such things. Thanks!"

[northzax]

46. one simply answer

The sickest people always rise to the top. What does that say about our society?]/i\ the reason the sickest people rise to the top is precisely because they don't give a shit about anyone else, or anything else. You can't care about the people you are stepping on, because the people who want to step on you don't care. successful businessmen, and women, are sociopaths of a sort, Could you lay off 1000 people and devastate a town for a 5% increase in share price? they can. Will you miss your children's birthdays to finish a project? they will. That's why they move up, unfortunately.

[nashville_brook]

53. PROFOUND! and not to say that there aren't women who've bought into

that sickness. one's who do will rise. condi rice. margaret thatcher. etc.

[cpamomfromtexas]

54. I know what you mean!

So sorry about your dog. I had a similar situation and dreamed about my dog for months!

I now only work contracts since a big accounting firm didn't understand why i didn't want to spend the night at work!

[Demeter]

36. I Can Hear Insecure Male Egos Shattering Like Glass

all over the country. How can you tell them that their pastimes are CRAP!! Just because it's the truth doesn't mean they are strong enough to hear it or admit it!

[Vickers]

20. Great post.

:thumbsup:

My wife would love you.

[NashVegas]

23. So True

I'm so leery of the trend of building up Richard Florida's "The Creative Class."

The industries that rely on creative people to make them run suck the life out of their workers just as much as the mills did. The main difference being that manual labor jobs at least allow you the luxury of having some brain cells left over when you get home at the end of the day.

In a creative job, you bring your work home with you - when you finally make it there. And creative people - many of them - who decide to use their talents to make a living (in the employ of others) have trouble defining their boundaries in the first place, what with the drive for recognition and desire for the praise.

A friend of mine is an art director at an ad agency. It interferes with all of his relationships (and has destroyed at least one) because he's constantly having to drop leisure plans and family activities for last-minute deadlines that must, must, MUST be met.

[nashville_brook]

28. OMG OMG OMG!!! you UNDERSTAND!!!

boundaries! never being "off" the job!

to this day i don't answer the phone. my cell phone ringing is like fingernails on chalk board. i always let my machines pick up. if you want me you MUST email me. period. no phone talkie.

that same partner i mentioned above would have me working and be at my house way past midnight editing video, etc. it was insane. he was literally at my house during one of the most emotional moments ever: GORE's surrender. hubby and i were weeping quietly and randy (who looks a LOT and acts a LOT like karl rove) laughed at us and insulted our political sensitivity and went on and on about BUSH would be great for healthcare and the economy etc. i should have kicked him out right then, but i'm a polite person AND i was too tender. i just called it a night.

ps -- my dog Mr Chompers used to greet Randy by punching him in the balls. he would take his usually running launch to greet him and literally his two front paws were like those "punching nuns" straight for his crotch every single time he came over. HA!

[SoCalDem]

50. My son has TWO laptops, TWO company cell phones, at least two pagers

and is NEVER "off duty".. he's well paid, but sheeeez-louise..

[smirkymonkey]

29. My friend calls corporations "The New Plantations"

Not to demean the experience of actual plantation slaves, but it seems as though most of us are kept in this depressing cycle of earning only enough to keep ourselves going so that we can show up for work again and again without really having the space to actually enjoy life.

I usually find that the weekend is just enough time to keep you from going mad, but not quite enough to make you feel like a human being again.

[nashville_brook]

32. PRODUCTIVITY! i came on the scene with macs -- got an SE-30

when it first came out and it changed my life. actually, my grandmother/adopted mother bought it for me when i graduated from college. the whole package was $3000 with the style-writer. she cashed in a CD to buy it. it was a MAJOR deal, like she said, "i want you to have this before i die."

i went to college on Pell Grants. we had zero money. a new mac was the most incredible thing -- the biggest thing -- my family could ever imagine doing. it's hard to believe, but in 91, just a few years ago, it was a totally different world.

anywho, i started the newspaper with that mac, printing halftones and tiling tabloid pages from the STYLEWRITER -- gettng high on that spray mount. suddenly one person can be writer/designer/publisher and we were going for it harder than shit.

productivity revolution.

we'd get high and be interviewed for our local public radio station just goon-babbling about globalization and clintonian optimism.

hyperproductivity is a BEAUTIFUL thing -- it's what i live for -- WHEN IT'S YOUR OWN GIG.

when it is for other people it is SLAVERY.

now think about economic state and how "productivity" figures. growth depends on humans being more "productive." oh, they SAY it's corporate productivity -- but what it really is IS firing people and making the people who are left to do the job 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8... ad infinitim.

fucking slavery.

we need a homeboy revolution. we need it bad. well, i need to be a "homeboy."
THE HOMEBOY REVOLUTION: families as economic units instead of sexual units
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5114942

[ljaycox]

24. Unfortunately...

I agree, except I now see women buying this crazed crap every bit as much as the men.

[nashville_brook]

30. TOTALLY -- some women are WORSE. i worked for a large financial corp..

okay it was union planters and the marketing director... whatshername...i can't remember...anyway she had two babies and worked 80 hours a week and was ALWAYS on the road and would just brag and brag about how she loved hotels and being by herself etc.

i was on the elevator with her one day and i asked how old were her kids? she says, "uh...shit. i know this. wait..." unfuckingbelieveable. honestly. she couldn't say.

she was having a big ugly affair with the one of the big guys and had just moved to birmingham to FURTHER her career -- listen, if you are moving to BIRMINGHAM, you aren't moving forward. apologies in alabamians -- and the RACISM about BIRM was outrageous!

to give birmingham it's due, the city has always been good to us. there was a club there called The Nick that hubby played at. they had great crowds! so enthusiastic!

it's the bankiing people i can't fucking stand. all building their mcmansions and ignoring their email.

shit -- i just totally had a post-traumatic moment. :)

[WhiteTara]

41. yep, the soulless men who dominated

every part of media production looked just like this guy. It was well known that the bigger the hack the greater the ego. The real stars and professionals (the really rare ones) just did their jobs. I loved the work and hated the business.

[Mad_Dem_X]

56. Excellent post!

"no amount of money is worth living in a world of constant emergency."

Truer words were never spoken! :applause:

[CTyankee]

61. Sorry to say

that life is like this in so many nonprofits. I know, I have been there. It is pathetic. These are people who are supposed to be working for the underserved and it is a freaking circus. Sorry, I had just had it and quit last December. I am now semi-retired, working for another nonprofit that is NOT politically involved. No more crapola.

It is awful that so many liberal groups are so splintered with factions all of the time. When can we move on from this?

[nashville_brook]

18. TRUTH IN ADVERTISING -- MUST SEE VIDEO!

http://www.studio2f.com/misc/2003/08/18truth_in_advertising.php


watch this if and only if you can handle THE TRUTH!

[smirkymonkey]

21. I downloaded "quick time" but how do I get it to play?

I have Windows XP - sorry, not very computer savvy.

[nashville_brook]

22. i'm a MAC -- i'll see if i can't find another version -- hold on

[Merlot]

42. I watched it twice...

and laughed harder the second time. Oh so much fun! And yes, I did see myself in this movie. I'm the guy in the first clip who asks the question to pretend he's intersted in whats going on. So me! Usually I'm sitting in boring meetings just trying to think up a question so that I can prove I'm paying attention...when I'm not because what they're saying has absolutly no bearing on what I'll be doing!

Sending to all my advertising friends!

[nashville_brook]

44. that's me too -- i love that line

and the one about meeting the client for the obligatory drink and the woman says something like i'd rather burn in hell. so rich!

[newspeak]

37. and what happens in the corporate world

corporate heads hire and promote "like" them. So usually you wind up with a bunch of "yes" men with the same personalities. It stifles innovation and creativity. About twenty years ago, I remember a VP say "I want to hire a "bitch." As if that was going to be a good asset on the board. In order for a company to be successful, they need a variety of points of view, not the same old "all in sync" thoughts. They also need those who are willing to challenge certain ideas, not a bunch of "yes" people. Which reminds me, Bush is supposed to run the country like a CEO--no challenge, no creativity. A failed CEO!!!!

[sakabatou]

38. Grr

[Darth_Kitten]

40. I'm internalizing this......I'm crap.

:hug: :silly:

[MountainLaurel]

48. What is it with ad guys?

When I was in journalism school, I heard a lot of stories from students in the advertising track (I was news-editorial) about a particular professor who was known for telling women in his classes that females did not belong in the profession.

[SoCalDem]

49. "...debt collector, trainee matador and rock-band agent ..."

Sounds like he's be an excellent choice for supreme court justice, if Miers poops out :evilgrin:

He's certainly got the "qualifications"..

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

52. Score 1 to the blogs

As to how he ended up in the situation, French said "It's death by blog, isn't it?" and expounded his view on the blogger who started the mess. "The point is the vast percentage of the people who were there said "What was all that about?" Of course, it's one woman getting her knickers in a twist and writing a long diatribe on a Web site and then all the other people with nothing to do joining in."

The 'woman with twisted knickers' would be Nancy Vonk, a co-chief creative officer at WPP Ogilvy Toronto. She posted at length about French's comments in her blog the day after the event.

http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/topnews/wpn-60-20051021ACreativeDeathByBlog.html

and Vonk's post:

http://ihaveanidea.org/articles/archives/268-Female-Like-Me.html

[bobbieinok]

55. 1st post is article that claims Vonk should have expected this but Vonk

herself says at the end of her comments:

'Finally, the women reading this are going to have to do better than me. I’ve suddenly realized that looking the other way, turning the other cheek in any situation equivalent to a black person being called a nigger makes me part of the problem. I’m snapping out of it awfully late, and it seems obvious that we can’t take this shit and expect to see anything change. Don’t be discouraged; be outraged and act accordingly.'

this DU thread and the blog link (with their comments) are very interesting

....it's sad that ca 40 years after the Second Women's Movement it's still the same old story

[stanwyck]

57. I wonder about the women in this guy's life

I mean, I sure hope he doesn't have daughters. Imagine how it would suck to have this guy as your Dad.
But, you know, daughters can't help it.
What about the women who marry this guy? Or hook up with him?
How low does your self-esteem have to be to spend time with a guy like this? He thinks women "are crap".

[BlueIris]

58. What a fat piece of shit.

Good riddance. Hope he enjoys unemployment.

[jmowreader]

60. I know the real reason women don't "make it to the top"

As a creative director once told me, "if dying of a heart attack at work was good enough for Bill Bernbach, it's good enough for me."

Bernbach didn't die of a heart attack, but this guy had been opened up for heart work so many times that his doctor told him "next time you come in, I'm putting a zipper in." He also told him that they'd saved his life so many times, "if you stay in the advertising business, next time you come in here with a heart attack, we're just gonna let you die." He gave away his collection of Communication Arts magazines and his Mac, bought a new set of golf clubs, and moved to Myrtle Beach.

Women won't do this to themselves. Obviously, if you're not willing to kill yourself you can't be a Top Level Ad Person.