Sunni anger at Iraq vote change

[Euphen]

Sunni anger at Iraq vote change

Sunni Arabs have reacted angrily to a decision by Iraq's Shia-dominated parliament making it harder to reject the new constitution in 12 days' time.

The two-thirds majority needed in three provinces to defeat the constitution will now be counted from all registered - as opposed to actual - voters.

Many registered voters may not show up because of violence, it is argued.

Saleh al-Mutlaq, of the Sunni group Iraqi National Dialogue, called the change a "clear forgery".

"They want this constitution to pass despite the will of the people," he added.

BBC Baghdad correspondent Caroline Hawley says violence, intimidation and US military offensives could keep many Sunnis away from polling centres.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4306094.stm

My understanding is that this will make it nearly impossible for the Sunnis to reject the constitution.

[Kagemusha]

1. What, you thought the US offensives were accidents?

I knew it'd have this effect weeks ago. And of course the constitution passing under this cloud means it becomes a permanent bone of contention. If it wasn't for the Kurds almost causing the fall of the government over Kirkuk ethnic cleansing this constitution thing would be a singular tragedy. Now it's just one of several fault lines.

[necso]

2. Interesting timing. /nt

[Pirate Smile]

3. NYT:Election Move Seems to Ensure Iraqis' Charter (they changed the rules)

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 3 - Iraq's Shiite and Kurdish leaders quietly adopted new rules over the weekend that will make it virtually impossible for the constitution to fail in the coming national referendum.

The move prompted Sunni Arabs and a range of independent political figures to complain that the vote was being fixed.
Some Sunni leaders who have been organizing a campaign to vote down the proposed constitution said they might now boycott the referendum on Oct. 15. Other political leaders also reacted angrily, saying the change would seriously damage the vote's credibility.

Under the new rules, the constitution will fail only if two-thirds of all registered voters - rather than two-thirds of all those actually casting ballots - reject it in at least three of the 18 provinces.

The change, adopted during an unannounced vote in Parliament on Sunday afternoon, effectively raises the bar for those who oppose the constitution. Given that fewer than 60 percent of registered Iraqis voted in the January elections, the chances that two-thirds will both show up at the polls and vote against the document in three provinces would appear to be close to nil.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/04/international/middleeast/04iraq.html?hp&ex=1128398400&en=9540007c4ff9499c&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[IndianaGreen]

4. BBC: Sunni anger at Iraq vote change

Sunni anger at Iraq vote change

Sunni Arabs have reacted angrily to a decision by Iraq's Shia-dominated parliament making it harder to reject the new constitution in 12 days' time.

The two-thirds majority needed in three provinces to defeat the constitution will now be counted from all registered - as opposed to actual - voters.

Many registered voters may not show up because of violence, it is argued.

Saleh al-Mutlaq, of the Sunni group Iraqi National Dialogue, called the change a "clear forgery".

"They want this constitution to pass despite the will of the people," he added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4306094.stm

[Charlie Brown]

5. So if 6 million of 10 million show up to vote

and everyone votes against the constitution, it will still win ratification?

This is not democracy.

[enigma000]

6. 2/3 of registered voters

If 50% +1 of voters across Iraq voted against the constitution it fails. However, if in three provinces there is a 65% turnout and ALL voters voted against the constitution, it would still pass.

Poor rule change. It still might fail nationally. Besides, is it as bad as it seems?

[dusty64]

7. Looks like theocracy

and civil war are assured now. Mission fuckin accomplished!

[saigon68]

19. THE RESISTANCE WILL SOON BE HEARD FROM.

[enigma000]

23. of course they will

I imagine they are plotting to bomb a hospital or marketplace or orphanage or mosque right now. Perhaps an orphanage IN a mosque. Yes, nothing registers one's disapproval of electoral legislation quite like the sight of dead orphans.

[reprobate]

24. Do I detect the stinky fingers of KKKarl Rove in here somewhere?

It's a move that just reeks of the KKKarl.

[Orrin_73]

8. As a sunni muslim

I can say that sunnis in Irak are treated as second class people by this constitution. 90% Of all muslims in the world are sunni, and they ask why dou muslims hate America.

[enigma000]

10. Where in the constitution does it say that?

Just Sunni Arabs or does this include Sunni Kurds?

[Orrin_73]

13. You're right about that

I was talking about mainly arab sunni's. Vast majority of kurds in Iraq are sunni but they see themselfes more close to kurdish nationalists then along religiuos lines. Dont forget that kurd is an ethnic identity just like kurds and turkmens. So a sunni could be anyone of them Shias living in the south are arab and the turkmen shias are living in the north. Many sunni saints have their tombs in baghdad, it is a very important city for sunni's.

[enigma000]

14. 90% of Muslims are Sunni

But 60% of Iraqi Muslims are of the Shiite faith. I believe their holy sites are in the southern part of Iraq. It is the Arab Shiites who dominate the government now and, even if Sunni Arabs increase their participation, will continue to wield a great deal of power.

Are they not entitled to political power? Do other Sunni Arab nations have a problem with a Shiite dominated Iraq?

[Orrin_73]

17. The shiate holy place is

Kerbela. I think it is somewhere in central Iraq. It is also a holy place for sunni's too.
You see the problem with sunni's and shia's is deeprooted Baghdad has has changed hands between them. Each time a sunni (Ottoman) or shia (safavid) conquered the city they tore each others holy places. Hopefully they can get along. I dont know how the other arab nations, almost all sunni will view a shia dominated Iraq (Baghdad).

[enigma000]

18. Well, I hope no more religious sites are torn down

Hopefully, however this referendum on the constitution goes, the Sunni will gain their fair share of political power. I think they made a mistake boycotting last January's elections. If they don't participate in the next round of elections, they could be stuck with a Shia type theocracy.

Do the Sunni tend, in general, to be more secular?

[Orrin_73]

20. The sunni's in Iraq are

more secular then say other arab countries or the middle east except for Turkey. Saddam was also secular, but al qaida (sp) is gaining ground among sunni's. I hope that enlightened sunni's will see the destruction done by bin laden and his gang. Otherwise Iraq is heading for a Hobbesian civil war of everyone against everyone. Think about Beirut only much much bigger.

[enigma000]

21. The Lebanese civil war went on 15 years

And only ended when Syria clamped down. Iraq could turn bad. What do you think it would take for the Sunnis to abandon people like Zarawai (sp?) and try a political route. Another try at writing the constitution? Withdrawal of foreign forces from their provinces? Defeat of the insurgency?

[reprobate]

26. The trouble is that they tried to go the political route, the Shias rubbed

Their noses in it. The Shias, it's my feeling, have been subjugated for decades under the Sunnis with SH at the lead. Now they are feeling freedom from domination, and like children with no experience, they're going to take advantage of their dominant position.

This just about assures a civil war. And if you think you've seen civil war in Iraq so far.....you ain't seen nothing yet.

Unfortunately it our troops that are stuck in between.

[Orrin_73]

30. Zarqawi has some men in Iraq

but they are a minority, but a minority that makes huge noice. I is that Zarqawi wants to show other sunnis in Iraq that they are the only ones fighting for Iraqs liberation. Dont forget that many of Zarqawis henchmen are non Iraqis. It is hard for the sunnis to see through all this and expose them, I hope they see fast enough before clashes between them and the shias start. Believe it is a very dangerous situation.

[enigma000]

22. Self-delete

[Roland99]

9. What a freakin' joke. Hmm...wonder if Katherine Harris will be involved

And I wonder if ChoicePoint DBA will get to do some purging to make those odds better?

[yellowcanine]

11. The Eyerackis appear to be adopting Republican election rules - when

you are losing, change them.

[The Stranger]

12. Republican Re-Districting, Diebold Voting Machines, now this . . .

It is their modus operandi.

[cantstandbush]

15. And our Congress sits by and let's it happen. This is not "democracy"

This is '"occupation." A civil war is sure to follow disenfranchisement. The US ought to be ashamed.

[ECH1969]

16. The UN is refusing to impliment the changes

the parliment made. The UN and the US are basically vetoing this decision.

[Ksec]

25. recommended

[0rganism]

27. 2/3 required to *defeat* a constitution? Just shows they aren't serious

Should be the other way around! A constitution is a framework for future governance, to be deliberated at length, to be designed with overwhelming consensus in mind. It should represent the true interests of the people it will serve, with at least a plurality of the vote required for passage.

This only proves the interim government is planning for civil war, not cooperative government.

[Warren Stupidity]

28. indeed.

What a farce. The 2/3 thirds rule, even in its original form is an abomination. The interim government is going to ram this document through and guarantee endless war and instability. Who benefits?

[daleo]

29. Next up - a U.S. constitutional amendment

If two thirds of eligible voters don't say no, then Bush becomes president for life. That's about what this amounts to.

It is like the book of the month club or music club, where you 'buy' books and music by default if you don't go to great trouble to refuse this month's picks.