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Scientists worried by riot control ray gun (to be deployed in Iraq)

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:16 PM
Original message
Scientists worried by riot control ray gun (to be deployed in Iraq)
<<SNIP>>
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L20701808.htm

Scientists worried by riot control ray gun

LONDON, July 20 (Reuters) - Scientists are questioning the safety of a Star Wars-style riot control ray gun due to be deployed in Iraq next year.

The Active Denial System weapon, classified as "less lethal" by the Pentagon, fires a 95-gigahertz microwave beam at rioters to cause heating and intolerable pain in less than five seconds.

The idea is people caught in the beam will rapidly try to move out of it and therefore break up the crowd.

But New Scientist magazine reported on Wednesday that during tests carried out at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico, participants playing the part of rioters were told to remove glasses and contact lenses to protect their eyes.


<</SNIP>>
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Scientists working for the Pentagon ought to walk out over these abuses!
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 01:34 PM by Dover
And the Iraqi people are NOT guinea pigs for weapons testing!!!
Do scientists have ANY ethics? Now would be a good time to prove it.

No human being should be exposed to this.
The Pentagon has too much power and no one is at the helm who gives a damn!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
63. This Is What "Science" Becomes When It Divorces Itself From Philosophy
this goes much deeper than Ethics.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Perhaps a test on how it affects people with pacemakers is in order?
If glasses and contacts could cause problems, it might be bad for people with pacemakers, pins in bones, and other various implants.

Yep, testing is definitely in order.
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Let Bush and Cheney personally prove that it's safe for human use
That's the ticket...
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
67. can't we put all the bushits and neo cons in the same room
to try this thing out? It would be such an appropriate test. I would love to see their eyes bulging and the cords in their necks straining against the pain.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. In a crowd, 'rapily trying to move out of it' will only exacerbate
the mob - causing panic and stampedes. This is unbelievably stupid.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. nothing like a nice set of melted contact lenses on your corneas.
modern warfare is pure torture. frying people's eyes out is just too much fun to avoid, isn't it? video game culture rises to the very top... merciless fucks.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oh yeah. That'll really work
Not only are we occupying fucking infidels in a muslim country, now we'll be storm troopers from fucking outer space frying them with fucking ray guns.

This administration is utterly and completely fucking insane.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. Never mind the glasses
The article says that in other tests the subjects were told to empty their pockets of metal objects like coins to avoid hot spots developing on their skin.

Gee, and what other side effects might there be?
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Big piles of little green wafers on the ground after use
Point your ray gun at someone who needs killin', pull the trigger and wham! All the Soylent Green you need!
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Democracy White Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Man is the most dangerous creature...
whoever said that was damn right...
It's bad enough that we are killing innocent people in Iraq that we now have to play spacemen and fry these people to death?

Geez, no wonder the term "Ugly American" has a new meaning.

Dee
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
53. And this will be a great crowd control weapon
in this country , when needed. One more way to control all of us. There are already some effective control weapons out there, as seen at the Wingnuts convention. But these will br "tested" in Iraq first, to see if they work effectively.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. Kinda makes me wonder what microwave doors are made out of
That provides such an effective barrier to microwave radiation...Got to get me a suit made out of that stuff for my next protest!
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. A mirror could be interesting....
;-)
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Yeah, isn't light a form of radiation?
As is the radio transmissions from sattelites...They get reflected to the reciever by whatever satelite dishes are made out of, so surely there is a way to reflect microwave radiation as well.
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Kraklen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Glass
with a conductive mesh. Since microwaves are 10 cm or so, they get blocked by the narrow mesh, tiny light waves make it through, which is why you can see. A similar method could be used to defeat this multimillion dollar boondoggle.

The eggheads at DARPA have been bragging about this thing for years now. The whole concept is ridiculous. I suspect that somebody embezzled a lot of money some time ago and they've been playing it off.

I think the scientists are just getting sick of hearing it and have decided to call the bluff.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. But if the frequency is 95 Ghz
then the wavelength is about 3mm. So the material needed would be quite different - would a very fine chain mail mesh work? It would also need to cover all the exposed skin. And face it, if you turn up to a demonstration dressed like that, they'll aim the plastic bullets right at you.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Its dumb.
"And face it, if you turn up to a demonstration dressed like that, they'll aim the plastic bullets right at you."

Which begs the question, why wouldn't they just fire the rubber bullets at me anyway, or the fire hose or whatever to disperse me? Why use the microspace ray? I agree with the poster above, this sounds like a sham.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. I was thinking more of an individual being a target
If you're one of a large crowd, they might aim at anyone; if you're someone who's come prepared against their magic ray, they'll decide you're a ringleader.
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. so in 2006 we begin testing these in Iraq
then deploy them in the US in 2008 right. Is that what I'm really reading here. Just a thought.
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Terror Czar Negroponte...
...would never allow it! Not here, not in Honduras, not in Nicaragua, and not in the States. He is a man of peace and Jesus-based morality, dontcha' know?
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. yeah
the "Jesus-based morality" is what scares the hell out of me.
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Bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Who would jesus death ray?
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
40. Absolutely.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 07:53 PM by sojourner
Think this ought to get more than a little press? What the hell do we need to use it on Iraqis for? I thought they got their democracy...I thought they were now going to be happy and content and peaceful. PNACers got a little sump'n-sump'n planned for 2006 (to use as a justification for their "tests"?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
49. Very clever. You get tonight's gold star.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. Now the question is when can I buy one?
I got my second amendment rights. I want one and I want it now! A mans got to defend himself and his property.
:sarcasm:
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. I think we should take Ronnie's re-animated corpse
and deploy it to iraq!
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. No, we not a TERRORIST nation...
...we just build the ultimate in terror tools.
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Zero Division Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Let me guess: It'll be used like a giant taser
Because it's considered "less lethal" I'm betting it's going to be overused/used irresponsibly, which will actually lead to an increase in the number of deaths and serious injuries in crowd control situations.

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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
50. Betcha they plan to use it against political protestors right here
in the Fascist States of America.

Oh, but NOOOOOOOOOOOO, it can't happen HERE, we have a magic force field around America that keep these things out. Not.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Oh, and they will only use it ..................
against folks protesting against * and the dominionists. They will never in a million years use it against, say, "right-to-lifers" trying to stampede or bomb a women's health clinic.
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. "less lethal" is a stupid term. An AK 47 is "less lethal" than a tank but
it will still put you in a hole in ground.
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TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
42. Yeah....WTF is "less lethal"....Other weapons will make you "more deader"

LOL....


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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
19. Calling Doktor Mengele !
Your presence is requested in ze oval orifice.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. and WHAT HAPPENS to INFANTS, TODDLERS, OLD, INFIRM, who CAN'T
move out of the way...

Weapon of MASS destruction.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
26. Now I know why they want the Iraq war to go on, it's a testing ground
with new real live weapons at Bush's disposal.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Both Afghanistan and Iraq
have been testing grounds for the Pentagon's new toys. Ever wonder where that missing 2.3 TRILLION went?
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oscar111 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. INVISIBLE BEAM, so how move out of it?
how even know it is on? silent, invisible.

people would just fold up or run in all directions.
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oscar111 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. "dont scientists have any ethics"? My re:look at von Braun,Lndn bomber, V2
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 05:43 PM by oscar111
He used the V2 bomb to kill Londoners.
=================
the answer to thread's re no. 1., is

NO.

some do not.

some do, of course.

but no more than the general population, and in my experience, the Engineering Dept. at my college had RW political cartoons on most every office door.

How about your Engineering Depts?
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. 'Run in all directions' is what they want to happen
It breaks up the demonstration, and if people get hurt in the panic, they blame it on the demonstrators rather than the police.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
29. It's not a weapon, it's a portable outdoor tanning salon!
This message brought to you by the Ministry of Newspeak...
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
32. FDA - microwave radiation greater than 5mw/cm2 dangerous
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 06:01 PM by BrightKnight
The FDA has established microwave radiation exposure levels greater than 5mw/cm2 to be dangerous, but many medical experts disagree and think this level should be lowered. Independent studies have revealed levels much lower can cause:

Skin Cancer, Cataracts, Birth Defects in Pregnant Women, Temporary Sterility in Men, Interference with some Pacemakers, Decrease in Immune System Competency, Headaches and Dizziness, Blood Disorders, Central Nervous System Damage, Cardiovascular Problems, Increased Stress

http://home.cvc.org/microwaves/detecto.htm

It smells like pork.


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lisby Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
33. It won't be long before its our turn, kids.
Jeebus, this makes me sick.

Lisby

:scared:
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. throw in some 10$ a gallon oil, al ittle starvation some riots
and a little ray gun action in select hot spots
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #33
52. Mark my words: WE ARE NEXT
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DawgHouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
34. This is sickening to me...
I am speechless!
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
37. crank it to 11 and it'll be a death ray
our tax dollars at work.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
38. I pity the soldiers when the Iraqis make shields to reflect the waves.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 07:08 PM by Massacure
It is not nearly as hard as you may think.
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
39. Basic PNAC gear. Control the "have nots" as they try to get
relief for the slave-like conditions under which they will live under the American Plutocracy...oh! and for the "subversives" who threaten the domestic order.

Yup, yup.
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
41. The thing is,
the guys with the RPG's will blow them right up. They'll have to mount them in tanks no, and even still.
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Unforgiven Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
43. Any
metal will reflect Radio Frequency Radiation.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Well, my tin-foil hat will come in handy then.
Hah, who's laughing now?
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Most likely that would just cause your brain to melt...
or have some nasty burns where there are sharp edges, but here's to hoping it doesn't do that. Better idea is a fine metal mesh at appropriate fineness, more than a microwave oven door, and make a net that is tented around the crowd, that would help a lot.
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. We will have put export restrictions on these...


These could easily be converted for military use. With a can of spray adhesive and roll of aluminum foil you could have functional body armor in no time.

http://www.studiocreations.com/howto/stormtrooper/
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ngGale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
46. What else can we possibly do to these people ...
DU 'em, torture 'em, then Ray gun 'em. After it's been proven that the Iraqi people did nothing to us - we do this? Can't you just feel the love building up for us in this world...then people say, "why do they hate us."
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #46
54. reparations
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
55. now isn't that 'christian' of us-
while those nasty muslims 'blow themselves up'-
we'll just microvave everyone in sight-

MY GOD- we are ignorant arrogant bastards.
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Rude Horner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
56. So no glasses, contacts, or buttons or change?
So let me make sure I'm understanding this. To avoid hot spots and permanent damage, the test people were asked to remove glasses and buttons and change and stuff, right?

Ah, I see. So as long as this out of control mob is naked and has great vision, this will work just peachy.

:wtf:
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
57. Metal is a problem, what about dental fillings and surgical implants?n/t
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
58. it cooks your organs from the inside out!
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Precautions tag reads...."Do not use in vicinity of Dick Cheney"
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
60. Preparing for our coming riots at home. Now that the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act
has made us a fascist nation forever, these will be used more and more, I suspect, as people become poorer and hungrier.
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Theres-a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. Damn if that didn't occur to me,too.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
62. So The US Is Using Another Group Of Human Beings As Scientific Guinea Pigs
hmmm, what does that sound like?????
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
64. and that U.S. Marines and police were both working on portable versions
The magazine said a vehicle-mounted version of the weapon named Sheriff was scheduled for service in Iraq in 2006 and that U.S. Marines and police were both working on portable versions.

to be used on US protesters?


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SillyGoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
65. "participants playing the part of rioters..."
Who the hell would volunteer to be a test subject for a freaking ray gun?

:wtf:
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
66. "Microwave your opponents: the modern alternative to boiling them in oil"
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