Romney eyes penalties for those lacking insurance

[Rose Siding]

Massachusetts residents who choose not to obtain health insurance would face tax penalties and even the garnishing of their wages under a proposal Governor Mitt Romney unveiled yesterday.

Romney says the ''individual mandate" he is proposing, part of his broader plan to cover the roughly 500,000 people who are uninsured, would not cost the state any money. But some healthcare specialists say the approach might cost hundreds of millions of dollars more than state taxpayers currently provide for government health coverage.

Romney's plan would require all residents in Massachusetts to have some form of health insurance or agree to pay their medical bills out of their own pockets. No other state has such a requirement, and if Romney manages to make it law, it would be a compelling accomplishment he could point to if he runs for president.

Currently, people without health insurance often go to hospitals and receive care they never pay for, because the hospital and the state pick up the tab. Under Romney's proposal, uninsured Massachusetts residents would be asked to enroll in a plan when they seek care.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/06/22/romney_eyes_penalties_for_those_lacking_insurance/

[Boomer]

1. Looks like debtor's prisons are due for a revival

Romney makes it sound like people go uninsured just to spite the government or because they're lazy.

Wonder what kind of penalties you can collect when people are just TOO FRIGGIN' POOR to buy health insurance?

[warrens]

46. My jaw just dropped

I spent 18 months with no health insurance, and it was terrifying. Three months after I got reinsured, my daughter was hit by a truck, and the bills for ER, ambulances and so on are over $10K. The lowest price I saw for an insurance policy for the two of us while I was unemployed was $648 per month. Or, roughly half of my unemployment benefits.

This Romney thug needs a good kicking.

[XNGH]

76. Fine em

Any person who is to poor to pay for health insurance ... will be heavily fined ... or imprisoned at hard labor. Great idea ... NOT. This is the kind of crap revolutions are made of

[Jacobin]

96. There's BLOOD in those TURNIPS, we just need to pass a law

to SQUEEZE it out......

SUCH a good idea. All those tens of thousands of folks who work at Wal-Mart at near minimum wage and can't afford health insurance will have their wages garnished and it will no longer be enough paycheck to eat and have a place to sleep with, so they'll quit

GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!!!

[ckramer]

2. That's why Republicans are hated

Where is the freedom to be a free man?

[OKthatsIT]

89. He's toast in 2006. Was Romney made Gov with election fraud?

I wonder. The state's senate and reps are 82% Democrat.

[KarenInMA]

122. No.

Shannon O'Brien was possibly the worst candidate I have ever seen.

I voted for her. My friends are teachers and Mittens ran on an anti-teacher, unions are bad, kids don't need to learn Spanish.

[shraby]

3. He just doesn't get it does he?

He should talk about it costing the taxpayer for people with no health care...his insurance costs the taxpayer.

[Kittycat]

7. Let them eat cake - n/t

[graywarrior]

4. I despise Romney

US Senator Edward M. Kennedy described Romney's call for an individual mandate as ''a healthy step forward," but added that ''details of the benefits offered and the level of cost-sharing individuals will face are crucial to understanding this proposal."

[Clark2008]

5. Is he insane?

People can't afford health insurance, that's why they don't have it.

:eyes:

[raccoon]

6. What a crock

2 problems

(1) affordability--especially if the person is older and/or has pre-existing medical conditions that insurance companies don't care for.

(2) pre-existing problems. Some people can't get individual plans no matter what because of pre-existing medical conditions.

[yorkiemommie1]

53. like my daughter's asthma and migraines

never mind that she's never been hosp. for either.

they reject her because of the cost of her PREVENTIVE meds!

[Lizzie Borden]

82. You cannot GET health insurance

if you have a pre-existing illness. Mass. needs to get rid of this guy.

[radfringe]

128. and many CAN'T afford health insurance

there are alot of small businesses out there that don't provide health insurance for their employees, and many other businesses that WON'T provide insurance for employees.

and what about the people who find themselves on the unemployment line? Yeah, there's COBRA - but it's a crock of sh*t if you can't afford $300 (average-single) a month ($700 average for couple - more if you have kids)

[Nite Owl]

8. The always punitive

Republican approach. Surprised that the libertarian Cato Institute doesn't seem to like this at all. There is no answer for what happens if a person is sick and can't work or afford the premium any longer.

[Stand and Fight]

9. What the hell?

:wtf:

So much for individual freedom! Now this Republican scum wants to intrude upon those who chose not to have health insurance because it is so expensive? What the hell is happening to this country when something like this can make it into the news and be given a "warm reception"? I cannot believe that Senator Kennedy did not attack the hell out of this idea because it smacks of nastiness and fascism. So, now the government is going to fine you in Massachusetts if you don't have health insurance?

:wtf:

[Joey Liberal]

32. Just imagine......

Being hauled into court because you don't have health insurance.......

[Stand and Fight]

34. Debtor's prisons would be the next step.

Welcome to Dumbfuckistan, people! :toast:

[Megahurtz]

58. Yeah what the fuck is wrong with Kennedy???

Is the Democratic Party totally going to hell?:shrug:

[Stand and Fight]

59. No

Not just the Democratic Party.

America is going to hell.

[Megahurtz]

61. You're Right.

And it's getting worse and worse everyday.
Almost everyday now I hear about some new completely unbelievable jackass thing that the Repukes are trying to pull.
It's like a bad dream that never ends.:scared:

[Stand and Fight]

66. Buckle your seatbelt, Dorthy.

It's only going to get worst from here on out, Megahurtz. I've a feeling we ain't seen nothing yet.

[Megahurtz]

119. Yeah, and it just got worse today!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1574059&mesg_id=1574059

[Stand and Fight]

125. Good God!

What the hell! Indeed, this is much worst than I had anticipated.

[MADem]

126. Kennedy ain't the guv

I'm sure he'll weigh in if asked, and maybe even if not, but it isn't his job to run the state. The real question are where are our Dems on Beacon Hill? At the Cape??

[katsy]

10. Ummm...

So if you have a family and not one dime leftover to pay for health insurance... what happens?

a. jail

b. sell your kids as guinea pigs to pesticide manufacturers

c. don't eat, do laundry, watch teevee or use any utilities

d. live out of your car

e. save the taxpayers their thin penny and kill yourself

And they call this plan an accomplishment????

:banghead:

[Orangepeel]

12. what happens?

you don't get health care?

[Purrfessor]

15. Isn't the state required to provide health care for inmates?

If so, then you're automatically covered while incarcerated. Of course you'll have to work in prison, with the money you earn going back to the state to cover your health care.

While the products you make will be sold to corporations and a highly discounted cost.

Like an earlier post says: debtors prison.

[TommyO]

24. Well, you can always move out of MA

I'm sure that would be Romney's advice.

Better yet, why doesn't he move out of the Governor's mansion!!

[katsy]

75. I think romney is a bit delusional

about his chances in 2008 based on his record and he probably will get booted out of his mansion.

[sniffa]

11. fucking asshoLe

supposedLy, this biLL (and his anti-gay agenda) is his springboard to the 2008 eLection.

how is being a mean-spirited dick a pLus?

[bicentennial_baby]

14. Yep

He's going for one of those "I insured the whole state!" platforms, as if the resulting disaster that this will cause for people here won't be an issue...fucking asshole indeed.

[getmeouttahere]

16. How does this guy get elected....

in Massachussetts??? Answer me that, Mass DUers!!!

[sniffa]

22. *sigh*

we reaLLy need a ready Link for this answer, as i'm sick answering this question.

- he had a piss-poor opponent, who turned many peopLe off.
- since weLd, the state has had a steady stream of repubLican governors (hey, if it works why change?) mainLy due to his success.
- he ran as a LiberaL repubLican.
- no one reaLLy knew the guy, and he ran an 'outsider' campaign - hey, i'm from utah and i'm above and beyond massachusetts poLitics.

sure there's more if anyone feeLs the need to add.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. "I'm from Utah"

If anything should have set off alarm bells...

[Megahurtz]

60. You took the words right outta my mouth. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

84. If you want to see a scary picture of Utah politics, look at the

mystery novels of Robert Irvine (now mostly out of print, I think, but still available in used book stores).

[midnight armadillo]

42. Don't forget

"I'll get rid of billions of gov waste!" That old Repuke chestnut.

I think the low point of his campaign was the shirtless jog on the beach ad.

[LiberalFighter]

52. You forgot he Lied about himseLf

[XNGH]

79. Response

- he had a piss-poor opponent, who turned many peopLe off.
The clown sounds pretty piss poor to me and he's certainly turning ME off

.
- he ran as a LiberaL repubLican. Is there really such a thing ?


- no one reaLLy knew the guy, and he ran an 'outsider' campaign - hey, i'm from utah and i'm above and beyond massachusetts poLitics.

And that's a reason to vote for this clown ???

[sidpleasant]

118. One more factor in Romney's election

The statehouse was under the control of two of the meanest political hacks imaginable. They were both Democrats but most Dems didn't like them either. Romney ran with a vow to break the "logjam in the State House."

[NeoConsSuck]

120. I feel for ya!

we've had a puke gov. in NY for quite some time now. And he took down Mario Cuomo.

He's toast this election, but it just shows that people don't always vote the party line.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

23. Have no f*cking clue!!

He fooled some people into thinking he was a middle of the road repuke, and that he would "clean up" our economic woes.

Why can't we get a recall??

[DBoon]

33. Wow. Sounds like Arnold.

is this a standard technique for sneaking republican reactionary governors into blue states?

[ckramer]

41. stupid voters

That's all. I didn't vote for him.

[MADem]

127. MA has a history of GOP governors

Going back eons...Often, it switched off from D to R and back again, but in recent decades, they have bunched up. Republicans Volpe and Sergeant in the sixties and seventies, relieved by Dukakis-King-Dukakis, and more recently, Cellucci, Weld and Jane "There Goes" Swifty. This latest carpetbagger takes the cake, he is a complete buffoon and a total ass.

Lately, they have been using the corner office as a springboard, some with less success than others. I think the voters have had enough, plus, the legislature (predominantly D) has calmed down a bit, so I think it is time, well past time, for a D governor once again.

[jmowreader]

28. Well, it's a plus for us

This does two things for us:

First, it gets the Massachusetts statehouse away from the fucking Republicans. I mean, come ON! Massachusetts is the most liberal over-10-EV state in the Union--California has many Repuke areas, all of New York outside the city is freeperville, but every county in Massachusetts is reliably blue--and they keep electing Republican governors?

And second, it gives us an attack ad that just writes itself. Rent the Old Montana Prison at Deer Lodge or the Old Idaho Penitentiary in Boise. They're both museums, and the foundations who run them would love to have the money a commercial would pay them. Put a huge sign that says "Debtor's Prison" over the gate. Then dress about a thousand people up in work clothes--everything from suits and ties or dresses to trades uniforms and chef's clothes--and line them up single file in front of the gate.

Besides, we haven't properly thanked the GOP for the Willie Horton ad.

[Coastie for Truth]

13. Let's "Bite The Bullet"

"Individual mandate" works for auto insurance - although there are a lot of uninsured motorists. It won't really work for health insurance.

We got ourselves into a thicket by associating health insurance to employment. Explainable by WW2 wage controls. But now, in retrospect, a major mistake.

It is now time to go to SINGLE PAYER HEALTH INSURANCE FUNDED THROUGH THE TAX SYSTEM, I.E., "SOCIALIZED MEDICINE" with the right to buy individual policies over and above what the TAXPAYER FUNDED SINGLE PAYER HEALTH INSURANCE - "SOCIALIZED MEDICINE" - provides (that's the system in most other "socialized medicine" countries).

The choice of bolded red font is deliberate. I am a leftie on this issue

[PassingFair]

109. PLEASE! Don't call it "socialized medicine"

...call it "National Health".
There, that sounds better....

[Coastie for Truth]

112. Like Therapeutic Blastocyst Somatic Nuclear Cell Transfer. N/T

[sweetheart]

17. The Dems should be delighted with this. !

Stupid republicans are great at losing elections, especially ones that
do really really stupid things like this. Looks like Mass will get
more democratic representation at the state level in the near future.

Anyone for a "recall election"... :-)

[drdtroit]

48. Why a recall vote,

why not a good old tar and feathering?

If these moronic politicians want to pursue a political course reminiscent of the 1850's, well ....

[rockedthevoteinMA]

18. What a moran.

My fiance can't afford health insurance, we live in Massachusetts. It would cost 20% of his weekly pay (after taxes). We CANNOT afford it.

I hate these rich repukes who think everyone can afford their buddies robbing us blind! :grr:

Edited to add: Yet another give away to the insurance/pharma/privitization group they all so fondly look up to.

[jmowreader]

19. Hey! The Second Mass Miracle is at hand!

Because obviously he's got some plan up his sleeve to magically give $100,000/year jobs to all of the people who don't have health insurance because they can barely afford heat.

But, you know, there's all of those people who live in the Back Bay* and won't scrape up the money for their health insurance. We gotta make sure those people quit showing up at the Brigham and Women's ER foisting the cost of their healthcare off on the innocent taxpayers of Massachusetts.

* It's cheaper to live in Malibu or Manhattan than the Back Bay.

[Roland99]

20. WTF??

[kwolf68]

21. Well

Not to fly off in the “moderate” direction here but maybe a “means test” is sufficient. I drive by some fairly depressed homes and one thing these people have are nice cars…Suburban SUVs and things like this. I’d hate to have a National Health Care system so people could lap up their luxury items while Im footing the bill for their health care.

I am for total and complete single-payer insurance so long the individual truly is in need.

I also realize how “easy” it is for people to wallow in debt for a car and the large creditors out there rely on mass debt of the American people to accumulate wealth so the problem is probably far more complex than I first thought.

On 2nd thought…ignore this post.

[getmeouttahere]

65. If nothing else, kwolf68...

you reminded us what the other side thinks on this issue.

[sadiesworld]

25. What a whackjob.

People are already required to pay their medical bills if they don't have insurance, that's what collection agencies are for. And now, with the spiffy new bankruptcy bill, those debts can't even be discharged.

[ananda]

26. Geezus

Punish the poor.. the motto of the GOP.

Sue

[Miss Chybil]

27. What the... Let's see - can't afford insurance, so we'll charge them

a penalty for not having any money. Amazing. Just amazing. Of course, most monetary penalties are based on the fact somebody doesn't have enough money. It's how the poor get poorer and the rich get richer.

[Joey Liberal]

30. Romney is just another right wing wacko n/t

[zipplewrath]

31. The weakness

He presumes markets are static, which is false. If he presents this in this manner the danger is mentioned down in the article:

"But John McDonough of Health Care for All, which is part of a large coalition of groups pushing for a healthcare plan that would force most employers to cover their workers, said that Romney's plan might create an incentive for some companies to stop offering coverage. And Rabbi Jonah Pesner of Temple Israel in Boston, who is helping lead a drive to put a healthcare proposal with a tax increase and an employer mandate on the 2006 state ballot, said he was disappointed by Romney's remarks."

''I believe in individual responsibility, absolutely," Pesner said. ''But to step back from the shared responsibility, both of the government sector and the business sector, and put it all on the individual feels completely unacceptable to me."


If the government and the business sector do not also have some form of "mandate" to provide these services, they will pass the burden onto the individual who will have no one upon which to pass the burden. In it's most fundamental form, conservatism is about piling the risks of life onto the individual. The middle class was built by advocating the concept of shared risk for shared benefits. Destroy that fundamental concept, and you will destroy the middle class.

[Judi Lynn]

35. Republicans put us all to shame, don't they? What fabulous wisdom!

He must have gotten this impressive solution from the Republican "think tank."

[dflprincess]

36. Must be the latest Repuke solution

Several months ago they tried floating this balloon in Minnesota - I don't believe it went anywhere.

[XNGH]

80. Lead Balloon

Several months ago they tried floating this balloon in Minnesota

I would venture to guess that this balloon is made of lead

[theophilus]

37. CALLING DR. DEAN.....CALLING DR. DEAN.......

Please trumpet these evil desires on the part of the GOP and their Corporate Puppetmasters from the rooftops. This is greedy lunacy! We tried to get insurance many times and either couldn't afford anything halfway decent or were turned down for various reasons. I guess the poor will just have to stay home and die.

This type of horrible policy should be firmly affixed in the public mind to the Repubs and their NEOCON bosses. The poor must be stirred up and assail the walls of this dangerous fortress of darkness. Greedy idiots. Heartless corporatists. Throw Romney and all of his ilk out of government!

[Theres-a]

38. Unbelieveable.

Debtor's prison,indeed.Wait for it.:mad:

[geckosfeet]

39. Its supposed to provide low cost ins. for those who can't afford

anything else. This other bit of trickery is standard repub sliminess. I think he is trying to justify this by claiming that it "works" for the car insurance industry (not that it works for car ins. but thats another kettle of lies and deceit).

The major difference is, that while you can elect not to drive or own a car, you can't elect to be alive and be subject to human frailties etc. It may be that he just wants all us people that do not have health insurance to leave the state or die and go away.

Fuck him. Useless piece of republican crap.

[Patty Diana]

40. And to think that this fucker wants to be president!!

and what with Diebold owning this country, it might well happen. Outrageous!!

[FlaGranny]

This would be hysterically funny

if it were not so serious. The dope must actually believe that these people can afford health insurance, but would rather sit in the ER for 10 hours with a sick, crying kid.

[Eloriel]

43. Takes my breath away

I'm speechless -- except for one word that comes to mind (more and more these days, alas): fascist.

Unbelievable.

[mbperrin]

44. This should work just as well as mandatory auto liability:

it has made the insurance companies many billions of dollars and filled state coffers with fine money and prisons with 37 cent an hour workers. And that's just here in one state-Texas!

[sidpleasant]

117. What's wrong with mandatory auto liability insurance?

The point of liability insurance is to reimburse the victims of car accidents - what's wrong with that? Would you prefer that the ability of accident victims to recover damages should depend on whether they were "lucky" enough to be hit by a well - heeled driver?

[DS1]

45. What a fucking asshole. I have to pay for health insurance to go to a

State college fulltime. When you actually read the insurance terms, it doesn't do a goddamn thing for me, except for covering the school's ass should I get injured.

Anything I have time to make an appointment for, not covered. Doesn't cover ambulance rides beyond the first three miles (the distance from the school to the closest medical center), and on and on and on.

Fuck you Romney.

[Merlin]

47. Yup! Can't afford health insurance? We're gonna fine your ass off!

What an unbelievable moron. And this guy wants to run for potus. This proves he is at least as well qualified as Shrub.

[DemoTex]

49. Sounds like the insurance lobby found an easy mark (n/t).

[redqueen]

50. Soooo... he wants to punish the poor for being poor? Is that it?

And this man calls himself a Christian, does he?

:puke:

[primavera]

68. Yep, now there's a brainstorm only a Repuke could have thought up

How bloody typical. What I wouldn't give to see some of the Repukes fall on hard times so that they could have done unto them as they have been so eager to do unto others.

[aresef]

51. Wow, what a moron

Lemme get this straight. So people who can't afford health care will be taxed for not being able to afford it? WTF?

[LiberalFighter]

54. Individual mandate??? More like UNFUNDED MANDATE

Isn't that one of the mantras of the repugs?

[LiberalFighter]

55. It shouldn't be the individual forced to be covered by insurance but..

that the employers MUST provide health insurance to their employees.

Would he support that? Or is that bad for his business buddies? If he thinks that is a bad idea than why isn't it a bad idea to force individuals to have health insurance?

[Megahurtz]

56. That's Crazy!!!

And where does he think that some people that don't have the money,
are going to get the money for this???

Idiot!:argh:

[FlaGranny]

62. This also means fining

people who have pre-existing conditions that no company will insure, I wonder? Fining people too sick to get coverage and fining people too poor to get it? Heck, I don't consider myself really poor, but I went without insurance for two years. Those two years would have cost me $20,000 to continue Cobra. Since I could no longer work and took early retirement, and no one would cover me because of pre-existing conditions, that meant handing over my entire social security check for coverage - my entire income.

[Megahurtz]

67. I forgot about that,

pre-exsisting conditions and the insurance company(s) refusal to cover people with them:

I wonder if Romney's "penalties" may fall into the catagory of Disability Discrimination
because of this issue???:think:

[primavera]

69. Oh, they'll pay alright

Shitt Romney's been taking lessons in public policy from Tony Soprano: you just have to threaten to break their kneecaps or arrange for a little "accident" to befall their families and all of those insolent poor people who refuse to cough up their protection money to corporate America will get the message.

[livinginphotographs]

57. I'm sure insurance companies are behind this 100%.

Why wouldn't they like a law requiring people to buy their products? :eyes:

[Chicago Democrat]

63. Reverse Socialism.... "National Socialism?"

Screw the poor... Help the Rich.... Its fascism baby!

[NorthernSpy]

64. remember Thatcher's poll tax: "Can't pay, won't pay!"

Popular revolt, beginning in Scotland, ended Margaret Thatcher's hated poll tax, and eventually her tenure as Prime Minister.

The replacement of the property-based general rates by the tax-per-head Community Charge, which soon became known as the Poll Tax, provoked widespread protests. The tax was introduced in Scotland by Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government in 1989, one year before the rest of the UK. A campaign under the slogan "Can't pay, won't pay" gained widespread support and provided a platform for militant socialists such as Tommy Sheridan, who went to prison for his refusal to pay. Glasgow had one of the lowest rates of Poll Tax collection in the country. It was replaced by the Council Tax in 1993 after Mrs Thatcher fell from power.

Something similar could be accomplished here, if we have the spine for it.

Romney's plan is to use the power of the state to force citizens to give their money to some private business. This is rather like a poll tax in that it amounts to forcing an individual to hand over his money -- not to underwrite the risk involved in the exercise of a privilege such as driving -- but simply because he is alive. Unlike income, property, and sales taxes (which pay for common goods such as defense, public safety, and road maintentance and other things that benefit everyone), the insurance that Romney hopes to force everyone to purchase will -- by the very nature of insurance -- be of little use to the many purchasers whose deductibles represent scant savings over what they'd have had to pay out of pocket anyway*.


Politically, we could destroy the Republicans over crap like this. But we'll have to gag the DINOs and the shrinking-violet centrists and make our appeal to working class people. We desperately need to DITCH the 'Hilary in 08'/"it takes a village"/gun control/middle-of-the-road/nicey-nice soccer mom agenda and start putting working class people first.


*(added: all insurance is premised on the assumption that most people will pay for more than what they use. What's especially objectionable about forcing people to fork over their money for private health insurance is the fact that much of what they pay will not fund the healthcare of their fellow citizens, but will simply be snatched up as profits and multimillion dollar executive salaries and other goodies for the undeserving).

[Iowa]

85. I love it!

"...we'll have to gag the DINOs and the shrinking-violet centrists and make our appeal to working class people. We desperately need to DITCH the 'Hilary in 08'/"it takes a village"/gun control/middle-of-the-road/nicey-nice soccer mom agenda and start putting working class people first."

Well said NorthernSpy! I agree completely.

[Neshanic]

70. In related story Romney wants homeless to buy houses.

"There should be a penalty for homeless people who do not buy homes...there just no excuse for it, and it costs the state revenue."

[newswolf56]

71. We are already afflicted by this penalize-the-poor plan...

...nationally: the BushCo Medicare Prescription Drug Lord Benefit Plan, which fines you one percent of your pension per month if you refuse to participate.

The reason BushCo needs this compulsory measure is that the Medicare Prescription Drug Lord Benefit Plan will double or triple the prescription drug costs of a great many seniors -- and funnel the money directly to the prescription drug lords, obscenely inflating their already pornographic profits.

Thus a lot of folks don't want it -- can't afford it -- and are being bullied by the government into signing on. (Indeed I am one of these people: the BushCo Medicare Prescription Drug Lord Benefit Plan will nearly double my annual prescription costs.)

Adding to the outrage, this is what the Greedy Old Plutocrats (GOP) call "voluntary."

Once again, we see how the GOP will do absolutely anything in their (ever increasing) power to maliciously worsen the lot of working families and lower income folks.

[Zhade]

72. Fucking disgusting.

I hope Romney gets cancer someday.

[area51]

73. Typical nazi insanity.

I've been reminding people on DU that years ago, Newt Gingrich said that he wanted to have a law forcing people to buy health insurance. Nazis can't even/don't want to comprehend the poor's inability to pay for insurance.

[NorthernSpy]

83. it's an example of right-wing political correctness...

I've been reminding people on DU that years ago, Newt Gingrich said that he wanted to have a law forcing people to buy health insurance. Nazis can't even/don't want to comprehend the poor's inability to pay for insurance.

The Right bashes the Left for political correctness, but they are quite susceptible to their own version of it. The overriding impression that I've gotten from reading right-wing opinions on various subjects is that we're really not even supposed to notice -- much less remark upon -- the ways in which our economy systematically leaves people vulnerable to exploitation. We're not supposed to notice serious inequity. We're all expected to believe that somehow or other, everyone gets the medical care they need -- and if they don't, then, oh well, they probably didn't deserve it anyway...

:eyes:

This view of (what passes for) our health care system is characterized not by realism so much as by a kind of Pravda-ish boosterism; increasingly, the criteria by which conservatives evaluate health care and foreign policy (inter alia) are strictly ideological.

[ismnotwasm]

74. Interesting

Why type of coverage? What would it cover? What would it exclude? My guess is it would be bare bones insurance, run by non-medical people denying coverage for medical procedures or medications as frequently as possible. I don't see how it would be workable from any angle. As many of us know, all it takes is one catastrophic event/illness to wipe out what coverage we have. And the choice between food, shelter and transportation vs. insurance is a reality for far too many Americans. Personally, I have "good" insurance-expensive, but good. However, my husband has MS, and his medical costs are still at least a couple hundred dollars a month, sometimes several hundred. He has SSDI, but it only picks up so much, and there is always the obligatory fight for any new treatment or medication.

[daleo]

77. Might as well go for single payer Canadian style health care

Once a state begins to force people to take out private health insurance, it is no different from public insurance anyway, as far as choice goes (a forced choice isn't really choice). It would be fairer and more efficient to just go to a single payer system.

[dejaboutique]

78. can this really happen?

how sad. he acts as though people make an active choice not to be covered. everyone in america would love to have health insurance so they can sleep at night. this is an outrage. garnishing wages!

[XNGH]

81. Life Insurance

How about a mandatory life insurance law. Can't afford life insurnce then the government takes your .... well you know

[KamaAina]

86. Blaming the victim: repuke politics at its absolute worst

"No insurance? Why, it must be your own damn fault!" (oops, Romney said 'damn' :evilgrin: ) "Just because you work at Wal-Mart for seven bucks an hour is no excuse. I happen to know they have a perfectly good employee benefits plan that costs less than half of your take-home pay!"

Romney: The Mass. Moran.

[Guaranteed]

97. Yup. Even while they admit the need for labor in our country.

Now they're going to tax people for it.

[salin]

87. in essence a required $4,000 to $5,000 expense for a single person

for basic insurance. If mandated by govt - it is a sort of tax - but goes to companies instead of the state (and we know that companies are always so likely NOT to gouge, or anything...)

So for the just above minimum wage worker at Wendy's - guess what - we just will shrink your less than 1,000 a month wage (before taxes) by 400+ a month.

[Demeter]

88. Surely Having Romney As Governor Is Punishment Enough?

His father ran Michigan when I was very young and probably did okay (I didn't notice), but the son is a total fruitcake.

[brentspeak]

90. I like the "choose not to" part

Millions of people all around the country, gleefully giving the big middle finger to the idea of obtaining health insurance...

:sarcasm:

[kdogg3232]

93. You'd be surprised...

...I come across it every single day. People that can easily afford insurance, but choose not to have policies because they don't want to pay the monthly premiums...then, when they need to see the doctor, they bitch and complain like crazy about my prices....well, think of how much they've saved all these years by not paying ANY insurance premiums...it frustrates the hell out of me.

[Jacobin]

98. What line of work are you in?

The people I come across without health insurance are those who have a place to sleep and eat and have a used car and get gas, but another $700 plus a month to pay for medical premiums would put them on the street.

[kdogg3232]

99. ......

....I'm a podiatrist, so I see a special set of problems. The people I see are usually self-employed, and CHOOSE not to have insurance. We have a pretty good Medicaid program, so the poorest of the poor do have coverage.

[Jacobin]

101. So, do they pay you in cash, or does the Medicaid program pay for it?

Not trying to be nosey, not you in particular, but in my state, you have to get qualifed by the state to be on medicaid, and its hard to do. YOu have to be quite poor, certainly can't have $700 extra a month floating around.

Maybe your state needs to tighten up on medicaid requirements?

[kdogg3232]

104. No....

....every patient over 65 I see has Medicare part B.

The ones I'm talking about are younger and pay cash (usually after complaining and asking for price breaks.)

You can find policies much cheaper than $700/month where I live...that seems really high

[kdogg3232]

100. Just out of curiousity....

...do they have cable TV or a cell phone? (the uninsured people you come across)

[Jacobin]

102. Do you think that

not having cable tv ($40/month) would be enough to cover private health insurance premiums?

[kdogg3232]

103. Of course not.....

....I was just making a point people make choices about what to buy every month, and health insurance isn't very high on a lot of peoples' list.

[ebayfool]

108. And I know a lot of people that have no insurance - not by choice.

I live in a very low income area, lots of people here are self employed. Laborers, housekeepers, hairdressers, etc don't make bank - but are frequently unable to qualify for state aid. BTW - Self employed where I live - you can't get aid no matter how much your income. State figures you might cook-the-books if you're your own boss. The fact that they don't have insurance doesn't mean it's not a high priority, keeping them awake at night w/worry ... they don't make the kind of money a podiatrist does! Are you making assumptions @ the reasons your patients don't buy insurance? Or do you have a form that checks off whether they have cable, phones, or whatever else you deem wasteful & siphoning $$$ away from you getting your bill paid?

My opinion from my side of the fence, not as pretty as the view from your side!

[Fire Walk With Me]

91. Hello, Company Store!

Wonder if they got together with the drug companies as well, and limited the covered choices to "theirs".

[kdogg3232]

92. Romney is insane; the policy might not be

The way he presents it, it's basicly a tax on the poor, which is insane. I would support a similar idea, however, if it had a minimum income level. I often see people who choose not to buy health insurance, even though they can afford. They choose not to pay premiums each month because they think they are healthy and will never get sick. The problem is that when they DO get sick or are injured in an accident, they can't afford their bills. We (both the state and the people who purchase insurance) end up paying for their bills, since the uninsured patient can't afford the hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical expenses. People who can afford insurance and choose not to own a policy are leaches on all of us when they get sick/injured. Romney's idea is idiotic, but I wish people that can afford insurance would buy it (even if it's just a cheapo catastrophic policy).

[converted_democrat]

116. I would love to have insurance...........

But to cover my family would be $1100.00 a month. There is no way we could afford it. I have lupus, and would love to have treatment, but my family has to eat. I live in Florida and we make too much to qualify for any help, but there is no way we could afford $1100.00 a month. Do you have any idea how much it sucks to live in the "greatest" country on Earth, but can't get treatment for my illness? It sucks. No way will I live long enough to see my children graduate or get married, or even see my grandchildren. It sucks. It sucks hard.
Have you looked at the new laws in Missouri? I'm not sure on the exact figure, but you have to make less than $300.00 a month to qualify for medical help. The figure is like $263.00 or $280.00 or some crazy nonsense. Anyway, I know it's less than $300.00 a month in order to qualify.

[Bridget Burke]

132. How do you KNOW the people can afford health insurance?

What is their income? What are their expenses? How much would a policy cost them?

Most people get insurance through their jobs. But more & more don't have jobs. And more companies are cutting back on insurance.

[Guaranteed]

94. Welp, better raise that minimum wage to about 10 bucks an hour, then.

At LEAST.

[Rex]

95. You will pay General Romney money for health insurance or

something bad might happen...say...you lose your house because we garnished your wages. Shame really, all you had to do was swear allegiance to Mitt Mussolini and we would have dropped it the whole issue.

[JerseygirlCT]

105. So if you cannot afford health insurance

you're just SOL. Are they hoping you'll pick up stakes and get out of there?

How completely heartless can he be? This is vile!

Hey, let's solve the problem of world hunger next by mandating everyone buy food!

[barb162]

106. this can get very interesting

[gorbal]

107. I never qualified for anything

I am glad I am out of MA. They said I didn't qualify for free health coverage unless I had kids:(

I wonder however, if his plan will have the single payer effect of making insurance cheaper by getting more people on it? That might explain why Kennedy was happy about it.

(someone with a mathematical brain, explain it to me, please)

:)

[SW FL Dem]

110. How the hell are they going to pay for this insurance.

My family pays over $800 a month for three people and that this for a lousy PPO.

[kodi]

111. well, its about time poverty was taxed.

.

[moondust]

115. Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

[Bravo411]

130. That's about what it amounts to.

[CAG]

113. I wonder how many bribes, er, contributions to him came from

big pharma, HMO, and health insurance lobbyists.

Talk about squeezing the turnip, geez, these people not only have no shame, I'm not sure their seeing straight. Is it not obvious that the reason for lack of health insurance is that one can't pay for it??

I understand the logic of forcing people to have car insurance, which is much less expensive. But people have some incentives not to buy car insurance. Who thinks of not buying health insurance as being the result of some kind of incentive??

[CAG]

114. Also, I love his "no free rides" rhetoric.. Why does this usually come

from people born with silver spoons up their ass? I love when the Bushy boys talk about personal responsibility, work ethic, pulling yourself up by the boot straps, etc. As if they have ever had a time when they had to look at a bill and think, hmmm, do I pay this or do I pay for my kids braces?

These rich twits have daddy give them everything growing up, pay their way through the best schools so they don't have to waste any of their quality frat time working odd jobs, then use their daddy's influence to get into the best law firms, banks, investment firms, etc, then run for office on platforms of tax breaks for their buddies, no more breaks for those lazy filthy working class folks who didn't have the "guts, smarts, or will" to "get ahead" like these hard working silver spooners, and fool people into thinking that Jesus was an investment banker who spent all of his time railing against homosexuality and gun control.

[Jose Diablo]

121. There is no bread? Well, let them eat cake.

A simple solution expressed years ago. Simple minds have simple solutions.

The Republicans are simpletons. I'd expect something like this from Romney.

[saigon68]

123. This is operation screw the minimum wage earner

The peasants need to take torches and pitchforks after this Ass-Hole.

[halobeam]

124. The biggest shame in this and most surprising is Kennedy

What the hell is wrong with him?!?!?! He ought to NOT hear the end of it from us.

[Maine-ah]

129. WTF.

I recently had a quote on health insurance, just for myself, not the both of us. It would cost me more a month than my mortgage. $800.00 was the quote, that was for a "full coverage" type plan. I have never had health insurance. Been without it now for over ten years. I pay out of pocket, still trying to pay off a hospital bill from last year.

[ticapnews]

131. Debtors' prisons cost money, the poor will have to work it off...

If you can't afford a visit to the E.R. and it costs $1000, you can work it off by driving a truck for Halliburton for a few months. Needed X-rays, a specialist or some type of surgery? A year in Iraq(n) will take care of that. If you can't go yourself, just send another family member in your place.

And we don't even have to call it a draft! Bonus!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

133. I can just see his presidential campaign:

"No other state has such a requirement, and if Romney manages to make it law, it would be a compelling accomplishment he could point to if he runs for president."

Yeah, a policy like that would have nationwide appeal. He's a shoe-in. :sarcasm:

I hope the people of Massachusetts are turning him into a laughingstock. You could say, "What's next, fighting homelessness by requiring everyone to buy a house?"

[GoddessOfGuinness]

134. The sticking point is not only the affordability of coverage...

Part of the problem is that as the cost of coverage rises, the actual benefits received diminish.

People don't want to pay into a rip-off plan.

[bitchkitty]

135. In other words, if

you don't have health insurance and can't afford it, and you get seriously ill, you have one choice - die at home, using black market drugs for pain relief (if you're lucky).