NYT: Generals Offer Sober Outlook on Iraqi War

[grytpype]

Yeah, it's pretty bad.

http://nytimes.com/2005/05/19/international/middleeast/19iraq.html?hp&ex=1116475200&en=f51a3a569f255c0b&ei=5094&partner=homepage

BAGHDAD, Iraq, May 18 - American military commanders in Baghdad and Washington gave a sobering new assessment on Wednesday of the war in Iraq, adding to the mood of anxiety that prompted Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to come to Baghdad last weekend to consult with the new government.


In interviews and briefings this week, some of the generals pulled back from recent suggestions, some by the same officers, that positive trends in Iraq could allow a major drawdown in the 138,000 American troops late this year or early in 2006. One officer suggested Wednesday that American military involvement could last "many years."

-- much more in article, damn we are f*cked

[sam sarrha]

1. they are Liers. just trying to get early retirement & sent home from Iraj

:sarcasm:

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

2. Sober?

That's something Chimpy hasn't been for years.

[DeepModem Mom]

3. Bad there, bad here, bad everywhere -- thanks, Bush cabal! NT

[tabasco]

4. Winner of the "Yeah right, we didn't see that coming" award.

The military personnel situation is critical. All you freepers aged 40 and under better start getting your pasty asses in shape. Your glorious leader will be demanding your services soon. Maybe tune into the Limbaugh show to get tips on how to avoid the draft. The anal cyst thing was very creative.

I don't think the neocons are worried too much about political repercussions at this point. The neocons are convinced that the American people are stupid enough to fall for their constant and well-funded propaganda machine.

There will be another disaster that will "change everything" again, and there WILL be a draft.

Either that or they start paying privates $50k (not gonna happen).

[UpInArms]

5. they even used the "F" word

But the officer said that despite Americans' recent successes in disrupting insurgent cells, which have resulted in the arrest of 1,100 suspects in Baghdad alone in the past 80 days, the success of American goals in Iraq was not assured.

"I think that this could still fail," the officer said at the briefing, referring to the American enterprise in Iraq. "It's much more likely to succeed, but it could still fail."

Why does he hate America? :sarcasm:

[grytpype]

6. Bad news from the article:

According to three anonymous American generals in Bagdhad:

• disappointing progress in developing Iraqi police units cohesive enough to mount an effective challenge to insurgents and allow American forces to begin stepping back from the fighting.
  
• the 21 car bombings in Baghdad so far this month almost matched the total of 25 in all of last year.
• "I think that this could still fail," the officer said at the briefing, referring to the American enterprise in Iraq. "It's much more likely to succeed, but it could still fail."
• recent polls conducted by Baghdad University had shown confidence (in the new "government") flagging sharply, to 45 percent, down from an 85 percent rating immediately after the election.
• the buildup of Iraqi forces has been more disappointing than previously acknowledged, contributing to the absence of any Iraqi forces in Operation Matador

This is not going to end well folks. The only question is: will Bush dodge accountability again? Who will he blame, Newsweek? Clinton??

[necso]

7. Nope, apparently they're still drinking.

And that would be the Sunni defense minister that is (is supposedly to be, according to the article) getting overruled (on the mosque raids), I do believe.

And this might not be the best thing to inspire Sunnis' confidence in the government. Give a Sunni the office -- and no power. (And there are those who have said that he was too much of a toady to begin with, I seem to recall.)

Of course, leaving (enemy) sanctuaries in a guerrilla war is a recipe for disaster. But in this case, unfortunately, invading these sanctuaries (we won't be able to hold them -- just like in Nam) will not win the war either (if it's even possible now -- by some reasonable definition of "winning").

Vietnam Redux, the Idiots Fall Flat: new players, new gameboard, same old stupidity.

[killbotfactory]

8. Sad and predictable failure occuring

Everything BushCo touches turns into a disaster

[grytpype]

9. I don't usually ask for recommends but this is a super important article.

This is the first time we've heard anything like the truth since the purple fingers election.

[alfredo]

10. this should not be a surprise.

How many of us really believed that we would be out of there in one year or even two years?

one clue is the 14 military bases we are building in Iraq. When we got kicked out of Saudi Arabia, we needed to find a replacement. The only way we will leave is if we get kicked out or we elect a brave president who is willing to go against the corporatist and defense contractors and cut off their source of ill-gotten gains.

[IndianaGreen]

11. The reality is exceeding the prewar worst case scenarios

We will be in Iraq for years, but in the end, we will leave as we did Vietnam, with our collective tails between our legs. What was it that George Galloway said to Norm Coleman, 1,600 Americans dead for a lie?

[Bigmack]

12. That "many years"...

will slop over into the next administration.... a dem, probably. If the dem pulls the US out, we will get bullshit from the neocons for years about how the US was winning when the "cowardly peaceniks" pulled out and abandoned the Iraqi's to a civil war.

Or, we'll get a dem who keeps the US in Iraq and continues the losing slaughter. Then the neocons will bitch that the dems are losers for not winning the war.

Lose, lose, lose....

And that's my happiest guess about the future.

[leftchick]

13. With Delusional thinking like this? We are indeed fucked...

But then the plan always was to stay there forever.....

<snip>

In Baghdad, a senior officer said Wednesday in a background briefing that the 21 car bombings in Baghdad so far this month almost matched the total of 25 in all of last year.

Against this, he said, there has been a lull in insurgents' activity in Baghdad in recent days after months of some of the bloodiest attacks, a trend that suggested that American pressure, including the capture of important bomb makers, had left the insurgents incapable of mounting protracted offensives. But the officer said that despite Americans' recent successes in disrupting insurgent cells, which have resulted in the arrest of 1,100 suspects in Baghdad alone in the past 80 days, the success of American goals in Iraq was not assured.

<snip>

"I think it's going to succeed in the long run, even if it takes years, many years," he said. On a personal note, he added that he, like many American soldiers, had spent long periods of duty related to Iraq, and he said: "We believe in the mission that we've got. We believe in it because we're in it, and if we let go of the insurgency and take our foot off its throat, then this country could fail and go back into civil war and chaos."

Only weeks ago, in the aftermath of the elections, American generals offered a more upbeat view, one that was tied to a surge of Iraqi confidence that one commander in Baghdad now describes as euphoria. But this week, five high-ranking officers, speaking separately at the Pentagon and in Baghdad, and through an e-mail exchange from Baghdad with a reporter in Washington, ranged with unusual candor and detail over problems confronting the war effort.

[Justice]

14. Very Sobering Indeed - A bit different than last week's headline

with photos of Condi going to see the troops.

We have been told incessantly that we should forget about no WMD b/c Iraq is better off today. We need to look forward. Move on.

This assessment confirms what we've always said on DU - there no WMD, and the Bush adminstration had no idea what it was doing.

This should be a story that is played over and over and over on cable news, on front pages etc. Forget about Newsweek.

[Moderator]

15. kick to combine

[rodeodance]

16. Generals Offer a Sober Outlook on Iraqi War (scotty could tell

Newsweek to do a good story on this on??)---since he wants Newsweek to tell the truth!



http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/19/international/middleeast/19cnd-iraq.html?ei=5094&en=03fb911eac4e06e0&hp=&ex=1116561600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print

May 19, 2005

Generals Offer a Sober Outlook on Iraqi War

By JOHN F. BURNS
and ERIC SCHMITT
BAGHDAD, Iraq, May 19 - American military commanders in Baghdad and Washington gave a sobering new assessment on Wednesday of the war in Iraq, adding to the mood of anxiety that prompted Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to come to Baghdad last weekend to consult with the new government.

In interviews and briefings this week, some of the generals pulled back from recent suggestions, some by the same officers, that positive trends in Iraq could allow a major drawdown in the 138,000 American troops late this year or early in 2006. One officer suggested Wednesday that American military involvement could last "many years."

Gen. John P. Abizaid, the top American officer in the Middle East, said in a briefing in Washington that one problem was the disappointing progress in developing Iraqi police units cohesive enough to mount an effective challenge to insurgents and allow American forces to begin stepping back from the fighting. General Abizaid, who speaks with President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld regularly, was in Washington this week for a meeting of regional commanders.

In Baghdad, a senior officer said Wednesday in a background briefing that the 21 car bombings in Baghdad so far this month almost matched the total of 25 in all of last year. ...

[sam sarrha]

17. they are just trying to get early retirement by Pissing off the DickTatter

[jayfish]

18. "Against this, he said, there has been a lull in insurgents'...

activity in Baghdad in recent days after months of some of the bloodiest attacks, a trend that suggested that American pressure, including the capture of important bomb makers, had left the insurgents incapable of mounting protracted offensives."

You stupid, stupid men.

Jay

[rodeodance]

19. even the NYTimes is diputing Condi with a note of "realism" tehe

.The generals' remarks, emphasizing the insurgency's resilience but also American and Iraqi successes in disrupting them, suggested that American commanders may have seen an opportunity after Secretary Rice's trip to inject their own note of realism into public debate. In talks with Iraq's new Shiite leaders, she urged a more convincing effort to reach out to the dispossessed Sunni Arab minority, warning that success in the war required a political strategy that encouraged at least some Sunni insurgent groups to turn toward peace.

[whistle]

20. Iraq is only a beginning.....

...U.S. occupation of Afghanistan, a military base in Uzbekistan, Kuiwat from Iraq I war. On the hit list are: Iran, Syria and Jordan to complete Bush's oil basin conquest.

[gratuitous]

21. Are we at Vietnam yet? Story indicates yes!

For those of you who don't remember, there was a big push for "Vietnamization," that is, to make the struggle in Vietnam one for the Vietnamese people to take on themselves. Train the indigenous people to fight, supply them with weapons, and let them fight to establish their own society and democracy, and yadda, yadda, yadda. There were a lot of reasons why this was a hopeless task, but it sounded real good to the folks back home and provided a convenient scapegoat for when the war wasn't going so good: Those darn Vietnamese just aren't interested in fighting Communism like we are!

Move forward 40 years or so, and instead of the spectre of the heinous international Communist conspiracy, we're facing the spectre of the heinous international terrorist conspiracy. And here's the hope that the folks quoted in the Times article are putting forward:

"By insisting that they not be identified, the three officers based in Baghdad were following a Pentagon policy requiring American commanders in Baghdad to put "an Iraqi face" on the war, meaning that Iraqi commanders should be the ones talking to reporters, not Americans. That policy has been questioned recently by senior Americans in Iraq, who say Iraqi commanders have failed to step forward, leaving a news vacuum that has allowed the insurgents' successful attacks, not their failures, to dominate news coverage.

* * *

"The generals said the buildup of Iraqi forces has been more disappointing than previously acknowledged, contributing to the absence of any Iraqi forces when a 1,000-member Marine battle group mounted an offensive last week against insurgent strongholds in the northwestern desert, along the border with Syria."

__________________

For those of us who remember the Vietnam war, all of this sounds depressingly familiar. Even the fact that the Times can't quite seem to draw the parallel in its reportage has an eerie echo of that earlier time.