Judge Orders FBI To Turn Over Records In Oklahoma City Bombing Case

[rainbow4321]

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0505/226947.html

A federal judge is ordering the FBI to do a much better search for records that could connect the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing with a gang of white supremacists.

The ruling is a victory for one Salt Lake City lawyer. He's been trying to get federal documents on how the FBI tracked down leads to a gang called the Aryan Republican Army.

Initially, the FBI said it found no such documents during a basic database search. But the judge in the case has ruled that's not good enough and that the FBI must hand over specific records and do a manual search for more.


http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&id=82892

U.S. District Judge Dale Kimball rejected the FBI's argument that all it had to do was a cursory computer database check. Salt Lake City lawyer Jesse Trentadue had filed a Freedom of Information Act request for FBI documents related to any links between a purported informant, the Aryan Republican Army bank robbers and the federal building bombing that killed 168 people.

In a decision dated Thursday, Kimball ordered the FBI to hand over those records _ without deletions _ to Trentadue by June 15 and do a manual search of its files for more records Trentadue is seeking. The judge also rejected the FBI's argument that releasing the files would invade the privacy of government officials.

The first memo Trentadue asked for was a Jan. 4, 1996, message from then-FBI Director Louis Freeh's office to field offices including the one in Oklahoma City. The memo mentions similarities between evidence in the Aryan National Army bank robberies, which often used real or fake bombs, and the Oklahoma City bombing.

Trentadue also asked for all FBI documents about any connection between a purported informant and eight named individuals from the Oklahoma City bombing and bank robbery cases or a white supremacist compound in Oklahoma known as Elohim City. Members of the Aryan National Army and Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh had visited the compound.

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. Oh Sweet Jesus!

You mean the FBI intentionally has been withholding information that would tie in the Oklahoma bombing to White Supremacists?

Wake up, Wake up everyone! This is news! Imagine the ramifications of an FBI agency that intentionally hides these kinds of facts from the public. Without the public realizing the real danger, it would give people the false impression that white people are safe and don't need to be profiled in airports, for example.

And, it would also make me wonder if there are white supremacists within the FBI that are helping to suppress this information.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Kicked again to get more attention.

[PennyLane]

3. This Would Be More Newsworthy.........

.......if not for the fact that is becoming commonplace within the FBI. Perhaps we need an agency whose sole purpose is to investigate the FBI. Sad state of affairs.x(

[leveymg]

4. Aryan Nations group had ties with Euro neo-Fascists and Mid-East Money

That's the connection the FBI wanted to protect. Links with the same spook-oil network that funded al-Qaeda.

:bounce:

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. Are you serious?

My God.

[leveymg]

6. Unfortunately, very serious.

See: http://www.thejewishpress.com/news_article.asp?article=3433

Al Qaeda`s Neo-Nazi Connections
Posted 2/25/2004
By William Grim
On the surface there would seem to be little to
unite the Aryan racialists of the neo-Nazi
movement with the terrorists of radical Islam.
To the neo-Nazis, Muslims are almost all
members of ``inferior`` races; and to the Islamic
terrorists, the neo-Nazis are almost without
exception either atheists or members of fringe
quasi-Christian sects.

But the reality is that there has been close
cooperation between Muslim extremists and
Fascists ever since the founding of the Nazi
movement in the 1920`s. For all of their
differences, Muslim extremists and Nazis have
always been united by a common group of
beliefs and goals: hatred of Judaism (and
conventional Christianity), hatred of
democracy, and a desire for the destruction of
Israel and the United States.

<SNIP>


Extremists residing at Elohim City
received military-style training from a number
of sources. One of the trainers there was
Andreas Carl Strassmeir of Germany, a neo-
Nazi and the son of Guenter Strassmeir, a chief
aide of disgraced former German chancellor
Helmut Kohl. The elder Strassmeir is widely
regarded as the architect of Kohl`s
reunification plan that merged the former East
Germany with the Federal Republic in
1991.And Guenter`s father was one of the
original members of the Nazi Party in the early
1920`s.

Andreas Strassmeir is important to this
story because he not only became a close friend
and confidant of Timothy McVeigh, but also
because he is regarded by many investigators
as John Doe #2, the unknown person assisting
McVeigh and Terry Nichols at the scene of the
Oklahoma City bombing who was seen by a
number of eyewitnesses.

In addition to training various neo-Nazi
and militia groups, Strassmeir was involved in
a number of very curious activities. According
to an FBI report dated May 10, 1995,
``Additional documents reveal that at one time
Strassmeir was attempting to purchase a 747
aircraft from Lufthansa; however, the reason
for the purchase is not reflected in the
documents.``

<SNIP>

[knitter4democracy]

10. All holy heck should break loose with that story!

Why is the media focusing on stupid news and not on important stuff like this? Who cares about runaway brides when there are scary things like this out there that we need to know?

[leveymg]

8. And .there's the Saudi-Muslim Brotherhood funders to consider

and their US clients and cohorts, some of whom are extremely well-connected politically.

http://www.thejewishpress.com/news_article.asp?article=3433

<SNIP>

It may come as something of a surprise to
some when they realize just how well funded
the various neo-Nazi organizations are.
Authorities have known for years that a Swiss
banker by the name of Francois Genoud has
been funding neo-Nazi activities throughout
the world. Genoud first gained prominence as
the financial adviser to the Grand Mufti of
Jerusalem. He is alleged to have funded neo-
Nazi activities through the use of confiscated
Jewish funds that were deposited in Swiss
banks by the Nazis. Genoud funded the legal
defense of Eichmann during his trial in 1961.
And most chilling of all, Genoud was closely
associated with the Palestinian terrorists who
murdered Israeli athletes at the Munich
Olympics in 1972.

Another Swiss financier of neo-Nazi and
Islamic terror is Ahmed Huber, (nee Albert
Huber), a former journalist who converted to
Islam. Swiss authorities raided Huber`s
suburban home outside of Berne on November
8, 2001, when U.S. officials identified him as
one of the chief financial operators for Al
Qaeda. Huber had been very active with the Al
Taqwa (literally ``Fear of God``) international
banking group, an Islamic terrorist front
organization that had been funding the
activities of Hamas and other Muslim
extremists. According to a report released by
Germany`s Bundesamt fuer Verfassungsschutz
(``Office for the Protection of the
Constitution``), Huber ``sees himself as a
mediator between Islam and right-wing
groups.``

[gordianot]

9. Mc Veigh's attorney Stephen Jones

Had a lot of questions how Saudi Intelligence was involved. He never got to see this evidence. Read the sad story in his final version of the book "Person's Unknown".

[leveymg]

14. Read it. That's where I started developing this line of inquiry

It's obvious from reading Jones' account that the Elohim City-German NeoNazi-Mid-East connection was well-known to the FBI, and the whole network had been penetrated by FBI and German BND Counter-terrorism (CT). That means that CIA CT was involved in the investigation. See, particularly, Chapters 10-12, pp. 182-191.

The infiltration of the OK Neonazis, Germans, and the involvement of Middle East money and organization (Iraqi, Saudi and/or Pakistani intel) was part of a much larger global CT investigation, and explains why the US Government had to minimize release of real information about the case.

The cover-up of the int'l component behind the OKC bombing was approved at the highest levels, and is a sword that's still being held over the Democratic leadership to prevent it from calling BushCo to account for its gross malfeasance in the 9/11 attacks.

:bounce:

[gordianot]

16. Someday Historians will have a lot of fun with this sad story.

Sort of like the destruction of the Maine. I didn't exactly make the connection to Democratic lapse with 9/11 but that sounds plausible.

Used to live in an area of Missouri with a lot of White Supremest and people there were connected to Elohim City. Very scary individuals.

[rainbow4321]

12. McVeigh/Nichols calls to Philippines, Osama relative's US detention

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153635,00.html

McVeigh's sister, Jennifer, in her own sworn deposition said: "My brother remarked that the money he had in his possession represented his share of the bank robbery proceeds."

Some argue the FBI should have looked harder at phone records they used to track McVeigh and Nichols. The records might hold ignored or missed clues that call for a wider investigation, especially the number of calls McVeigh made to the Philippines.

Repeated calls were made from Terry Nichols' home to a place called Star Glad Lumber in the Philippines. “Star Glad Lumber is operated by a man whose brother and cousin were both notorious terrorists, splinter groups of the Abu Sayyaf terror group in the Philippines,” according to Johnston, the attorney.

Nichols also repeatedly called a boarding house in Cebu City, an establishment that has been linked to 1993 World Trade Center bombing mastermind Ramzi Yousef (search). The same kind of ANFO fertilizer fuel bomb was used in New York and in Oklahoma City.


http://intelwire.egoplex.com/2004_09_07_exclusives.html

U.S. Secretly Detained bin Laden Brother-in-Law For Four Months After Purported May 1995 Deportation

The new documents obtained by INTELWIRE raise several question about exactly what happened in the Khalifa case, including why he was deported instead of being prosecuted in the U.S., why the evidence seized from his belongings was returned to him, which government agency detained him between May and August 1995, and why he was detained.

The quick deportation agreement struck only a week after the Oklahoma City bombing is also noteworthy, given that the federal investigation into Terry Nichols' Philippines ties had barely begun and that a suspected accomplice of Khalifa had confessed to having a role in the bombing.

Furthermore, Khalifa's alleged links to Yousef (who had two major trials ahead of him) were no secret at the time he was deported. Newspaper reports from 1995 about Khalifa's extradition proceedings cited suspicions about such ties, in addition to the links cited above.

The revelation that Khalifa was secretly held in U.S. custody for four more months further elevates the importance of the case. The handling of Khalifa's deportation is one of the most prominent issues in the early 1990s investigation into Osama bin Laden, Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.



http://intelwire.egoplex.com/khalifa100603.html

By April 23, the Chicago Tribune printed one of the first news stories about Nichols' longstanding connection to Cebu, a city in the south of the Philippines. In 1990, Nichols married a Filipina he met through a "mail-order bride" service and visited her family the country several times subsequently.

His last trip to the Philippines took place from November 1994 to January 1995, the same period that Yousef and his coconspirators had been working out of Manila.


Khalifa had lived in the Philippines for several years prior to the U.S. visit, according to dozens of sources. Contemporaneous news accounts of his INS proceedings detailed Khalifa's Philippines history as well as his alleged ties to Yousef, which were well-known.


While in Manila, Khalifa founded a series of businesses and charities that federal investigators now claim transferred money and resources on behalf of al Qaeda. Philippines investigators charged that Khalifa funded the Bojinka plot through a charity front in Manila, according to Lance. But the FBI was in possession of even more evidence suggesting Khalifa could be linked to the 1993 WTC attack, Bojinka and Oklahoma City.

[leveymg]

19. Khalifa runs like a thread through every major al-Qaeda attack since 1993

I've long wondered why he was released from INS custody by the US Attorney's office in 1995. My conclusion is that Khalifa is a double-agent in the pay of both Saudi and US intelligence agencies.

There was solid evidence to tie him as a financier and organizer of the 1993 WTC bombing plot -- that group was also infiltrated by several double-agents working with the FBI office in NY. Khalifa was then linked to the Bojinka plottings in the Philippines. The East Africa embassy bombings in 1998 similarly had U.S. informants on the inside.

The fact that, in every case from 1993-2001, these deadly terrorist attacks occurred in spite of (because of?) the presence of double-agents suggests that US intelligence and counter-terrorism are beset by the most serious sort of problem. That, my friends, is why there's been a series of cover-ups.
:bounce:

[burythehatchet]

7. anyone here ever have termites?

That's what the american government is like, a house that has termites. It is rotted all the way through. The house must be demolished.

[OzarkDem]

11. Wasn't there a GOP congressman

from one of the red states who was communicating with McVeigh & associates before the attack?

Given the degree to which the FBI was politicized against Clinton during Freeh's term, it seems more likely they would be trying to cover up some link between neo-Nazi's and the Republican party.

The right wing conspiracy theory about Muslim connections is probably another red herring.

[gordianot]

13. "Right wing conspiracy and Muslim connections"

A common theme recently that blend together.

[Frederik]

25. I don't think it is

There are connections between neo-nazis, al-Qaeda and US spooks. I haven't been studying it too closesly, but there are people who see connections between WTC '93, OKC and 9/11 who don't qualify as "right-wingers".

[Jim Sagle]

28. Congressman Helen Chenoweth, I believe.

[Minstrel Boy]

15. Elohim's weapons and explosives instructor was an FBI informant.

Andreas Strassmeir, "Andy the German":

"It's obvious that it was a government 'op' that went wrong, isn't it? The ATF had something going with McVeigh. They were watching him, of course they were. What they should have done is make an arrest while the bomb was still being made instead of waiting till the last moment for a publicity stunt. They had everything they needed to make the bust, and they screwed it up.

"Whoever thought this thing up is an idiot, in my opinion. I am told they thought it would be better to put a bigger bomb in there. The bigger the better. It would make them more guilty....McVeigh knew he was delivering a bomb, but he had no idea what was in that truck. He just wanted to shake things up a little; you know, make a gesture.

"The bomb was never meant to explode. They were going to arrest McVeigh at the site with the bomb in hand, but he didn't come at the right time... Maybe he changed the time, you never know with people who are so unreliable. I have heard that the truck was expected in the middle of the night, between two and three in the morning. The truck had a transmitter, so they could track it with a radio receiving device. I don't know how they could have lost contact. I think there was misinformation that the operation had been canceled."

More on my blog from a few months ago, here.

[truth2power]

22. FBI informant.

I have a theory about that. There was a story that had to do with the "John Doe #2" character who was seen in various places with McVeigh. As best I can recall, there was someone who tried very hard to get the FBI to investigate, but they simply refused, with no explanation.

I've always thought that there really was a "John Doe" and that he was an FBI informant. I think he had knowledge of what was coming down and did nothing about it. I think the FBI knew if they followed the trail of John Doe it would turn up one of their own, and that an FBI agent has blood on his hands for what happened in OK.

So much more to this than meets the eye, and that's even if you discount the really tinfoil stuff.

[Grey]

17. Which government officials?

The judge also rejected the FBI's argument that releasing the files would invade the privacy of government officials.
I don't get this part?

[sce56]

20. All of them

Also look here to see other things reported on intelligence snafus
http://www.physics911.net/germanintel.htm

[rainbow4321]

21. Also into people getting "suicided"..the guy threatened chimp's father

http://www.meta-religion.com/Extremism/White_extremism/Aryan_republican_army/aryan_republican_army.htm


Other members of the Aryan Republican Army included Richard Lee Guthrie, a court-martialed Navy Seal. A childhood friend of Peter Langan, Guthrie came under federal law enforcement scrutiny after making a threat toward President George Bush in 1991. Guthrie was very forthcoming with information upon his arrest.

He reportedly was writing a book which would chronicle the events of the ARA. He, however, is reported to have killed himself in his cell. According to Robert Ruth, a staff writer for the Columbus Dispatch, "Guthrie was found dead in his cell with a sheet around his neck, an apparent suicide. Guthrie's body was found shortly after he pleaded guilty to 19 robberies and agreed to testify against Peter "Commander Pedro" Langan and other alleged members of the gang." He had already provided information that resulted in the arrests of McCarthy and Stedeford.

Additionally, as part of the plea bargain reached with the FBI, Guthrie asserted that he could provide them with information on other "cells" and groups "whose goal was the overthrow of the government or engaging in acts of domestic terrorism." At one point, he alluded to a fellow ARA member named "Tim." His body was found 9 days after entering the plea bargain agreement and only hours after telling a reporter for the Los Angeles Times that he intended to write a "tell-all" book "That would go a lot further into what we were really doing."

[CornField]

18. Read the witness affidavits that have already been released

The folks on the ground that morning -- law enforcement, firefighters, journalists -- knew/know the official story is bunk.

[truth2power]

23. Do you have a link to those affidavits? n/t

[CornField]

26. Here's some information

Here's a tinfoil-type site, but they do have jpgs of some of the affidavits: http://www.apfn.org/apfn/okc_coverup.htm

-----

What you really want to see is the testimony of FBI Agent John (Jon?) Hersley from the federal prelim hearing in 1995. It was held on April 27 -- just days after the bombing. The judge presiding was Howland and they held the hearing in El Reno.

In his testimony, Hersley discussed photographs of McVeigh leaving the scene with another John Doe. This was witnessed by Gary Lewis of the Journal Record.

Matter-of-fact, Hersley's testimony that day was what was used to hold McVeigh over. What was odd is that all of his witnesses (credible enough to give testimony) all also reported various John Doe characters with McVeigh.

A fellow from the VA Office in the Murrah Building reported visiting with McVeigh and 2 other men days prior to the bombing. He said one of the men were of Middle Eastern descent.

A fellow who ran a tire store near the federal building also reported seeing someone else with McVeigh in the Ryder truck less than an hour before the bomb exploded.

There were *lots* of other witnesses who reported McVeigh had 'helpers.'

-----

Oklahoma County Reserve Sheriff's Deputy David Kochendorfer has publically stated that he and fellow rescuers were removed from the scene by Federal marshalls. All unauthorized persons were kept from the area.

That night of the bombing, the press was staked out at some Middle Eastern family's home in OKC. In the interim, state officials began arriving at the site. Kochendorfer was on the scene and spoke with Congressman Istook. Kochendorfer swears that Istook informed him that "we knew this was going to happen -- that there was an undercover Muslim fundamentalist cell in OKC and we were warned they were going to attack the federal building."

Here's a link to the radio transcript: http://www.aci.net/kalliste/okckey.htm

------

As a personal aside, have you never found it strange that no footage was released to the public from the 9 security cameras covering the Murrah building?

Journal Record employees reported people running out of the building BEFORE the bomb went off. People who were inside the building have signed affadavits that warnings were issued BEFORE the bomb went off.

[demgrrrll]

24. Years ago there was a front page article in the Picayune about

the FBI going to David Duke's house and boxing up all of his papers and taking them away. This was in 2000 and there was some mention of Duke having something to do with the political process that year but I never heard another word about what they found or the outcome of their search. This is all very curious.

[struggle4progress]

27. kick