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Logician Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 05:31 AM
Original message
Kerry adopting the rhetoric of a D.C. outsider
Boston Globe
May 9, 2005

BATON ROUGE, La. -- The Bruce Springsteen anthem, his theme song, was back -- ''No retreat, baby, no surrender" -- and people were on their feet before his speech began. Wading through the crowd as the music boomed, Senator John F. Kerry looked like a presidential candidate again: smiling, grasping for outstretched arms, and offering thumbs-up as he made his way to the stage.

But the attendance was a fraction of the mobs that the Massachusetts Democrat drew in his final campaign rallies last fall. Gone was his stump speech railing against President Bush's Iraq war policy, the sluggish economy, and the Republican agenda; even mentions of Kerry's Senate career and Vietnam War service had disappeared.

Instead, Kerry -- a veteran politician who has held office for 21 years -- took off his suit jacket and roamed a small stage in Louisiana's Old State Capitol to push a new message: Get angry at Washington.

"Washington seems more and more out of touch with the difficulties the average family is facing," Kerry told the crowd of about 150 last week in Baton Rouge. ''Go out of here, take some anger and a little bit of outrage at the fact that Washington is not dealing with the real concerns of our country. ....

...In essence, Kerry is trying to reignite a fire that never quite raged for his presidential bid on behalf of a domestic agenda he is pushing in Congress. He is shooting regular e-mail updates to his network of 3 million supporters. His new political action committee bought a large ad in tomorrow's USA Today that accuses Bush and GOP leaders of ignoring soaring gas prices, children without health insurance, and the lack of quality jobs with good wages...."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/05/09/kerry_adopting_the_rhetoric_of_a_dc_outsider/


**************************

Is this a new direction, or a tired tactic? To whom is Kerry pitching his new focus? The angry poor lower income white family? Or all families?

Look at his latest public remarks, for example, about emphatically opposing gay marriage. This is not a thread about gay marriage per se, but about a tired politician abandoning the Democratic Party's broad (in terms of demographics) progressive centrist and liberal base in favor of angry lower income Americans who were successfully targeted and co-opted by the Repugs.


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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think he is trying to get the country pumped up to kick some ass
Edited on Mon May-09-05 05:42 AM by liberal N proud
in 2006.
This would appear to be a move to help congressional races across the country.
He knows it is too early to talk president, that we need to focus on November 2006 first.

edit for typo!
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. How is opposing gay marriage inconsistend with Democratic principles?
I'm no fan of JK's anymore. It always made me mad that he didn't have the chutzpah to emphatically state, during the campaign, his opposition to gay "marriage" and his support for civil unions. Those were positions he actually held, but failed to make perfectly clear. So he got the worst of all worlds. Rad libs disdained him, and the center and right of America were sure he DID support gay marriage.

At least now he's making things a bit more clear.

Unfortunately for JK, his time has come and gone.
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MeDeMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. can't JK have a fair shot at being a good public servant ?
Edited on Mon May-09-05 06:23 AM by MeDeMax
If all he is trying to do is look out for the poor & middle class in our country, can't he have a fair shot at doing his job as a public servant ?

Going forward, do all his actions have to be viewed through a prism of skepticism & political gains ?

May I remind my brothers & sisters that Kerry actually _HAS_ a record of public service spanning over 3 decades.



(edited for a typographical error :) )
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doc9464 Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
57. He did have a fair shot - the past ELECTION!!!!
You have to think about this guy carefully.....everyone knows why Kerry is doing what he's doing....he started his candidacy 4 years early and it doesnt matter a hill of beans to people who share my rage for John Kerry. Its not all about losing the election...for me its still the below reasons:

1) Kerry had to run neck and neck with a failed president....with enough baggage to start a suitcase business. Kerry stumbled and equivocated enough of his own beliefs...and despite the added support of just about every member of the Democratic party, 527 orgs, and even some Nader/Greens...he still couldnt move America 3 more percentage points...Kerry should have buried Bush.....voter fraud or not.
He didn't do it because he compromised who I thought he was.

2) This trip around the US acting like a republican is just more proof that he didn't "grow a new pair" after the election...he's still letting the other side dictate who he is..instead of standing firm for Democratic values

3) He doesn't keep promises...He should be having weekly or daily press conferences to push hard for Voter Rights. This he promised so many times but has done little besides write a bill or two. He should have Al Gore, Stephanie tubbs-Jones, Barbara Boxer, and John conyers on his team to help Americans wake up about voter fraud....hes running over himself trying to campaign on every issue and hes muddling the water again....stick to one or two key issues, and work on growing a spine regarding other issues....but VOTER RIGHTS should be his mantra.

Kerry is going to have to get real with himself and realize that the train left him. He should join up with the people i mentioned above and work with DNC Chairman Dean to help the next candiate (who better not be Hillary...another spineless one) win in 2008.
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doc9464 Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. one more thought
I live in Mass and he wasnt even wise to check to see that people in mass actually support Gay Marriage...by a significant amount. In recent elections, candidates at the local and state level who have publically announced their full support for gay marriage actually have won and won fairly convincingly.

A clever person at minimum would at least checked with his own supporters and fellow state residents to get their take rather than go to Baton Rouge and turn into a Pander Bear. Even if he checked the polls, he should see that the American peoople do not support this recent outburst of extreme behavior on behalf of the religions right and hard right Republicans.....

I apologize to those of you who really think Kerry is a good choice in 2008. Great people learn from their mistakes....John Kerry has learned nothing and he's proving it every day. I hope you will see your error and get behind someone who will strongly represent the Democratic party values..not listen to polls or the mainstream media.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. In my media class
We had a segment on subjective versus objective language, and the ethics involved in a journalist choosing to use subjective language in what is ostensibly a factual article.

This article would have been fun to discuss in that class.
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. He is pitching to all families...
...soaring gas prices, families without health insurance and quality jobs with good wages affects everyone with the exception of the very wealthy. I applaud anyone who pitches for low income families to help them have a better life.














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MeDeMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. right on, I LOVE IT...
"He has enormous political capital with various groups and constituencies, and he's one of the most important leaders in our party," she (Donna Brazil) said.


I am once again impressed with Kerry for doing what is right for us as a nation. It has been the guiding principle of his entire political career.


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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
26. he's not pitching to my family
or to my loved ones

he's pitching to the bigots that would deny me and mine basic equal rights
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I wholeheartedly support the right for gays to marry....
...and have all the rights of married couples. I disagree with John Kerry on this matter and I also disagree with him on the Iraq War, we never should have invaded Iraq. I was merely answering the question regarding "low income families" and I support all the help they can get.
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hezekkia Donating Member (216 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. John Kerry DOES support equal rights for gays.
:shrug:
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Logician Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. well almost equal
He supports a separate but equal marriage status, so that gay and lesbian couples with civil unions can walk among married heterosexuals, knowing that their relationships are somehow 'different' and not worthy of being considered a 'true' marriage.

Again, he could have come out in favor of civil unions for all citizens, gay and straight, with marriage to be conveyed by religious service.

However, *that* would have gone over with the status quo like a lead balloon! Bigoted folks in America do not want to give true equality to LGBT folks. In Massachusetts gay and lesbian marriage has had *no* impact on heterosexual marriage. That is why religious bigots in the Commonwealth are losing support on this issue. That is why it is being put on our state party platform.

And John Kerry is way too interested in being elected in contrast with having the courage to speak clearly and unambiguously on this issue.

We should reduce the influence of weak politicians in our political landscape.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. he's pushing dean's message...
not that dean's message is original..

but there is good news at building consistency within the leadership.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
7. Current thinking in D.C has become so radical.
Anyone who does not advocate the Neo-Conservative Republican line is an outsider and threatens the current established powers. Kerry and others (Clark, Dean, Edwards) are trying to refine and define a message that encourages people to voting their own interests. It will be interesting to see how the Republicans respond.

I do not care who wins out anymore as long as someone ends the current tyranny.

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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. boooo kerry
how dare he continue to poLitick, and gain attention.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes i just hate it when Democrats advocate for the rights of the people.
:toast:
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
11. Um, at this point Dems ***are*** "Washington Outsiders"
Edited on Mon May-09-05 06:44 AM by emulatorloo
The repugs are in control of most everything, and now they want the Courts too.

Bush - Insider
Delay - Insider
Frist - Insider

You get the picture.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I think that's the ticket as well
Edited on Mon May-09-05 06:49 AM by TayTay
The Dems have to mount an appeal to voters as outsiders. They are the opposition party at the moment. They do not have control of any branch of government. I don't see how they can regain power without acknowledging that fact. I see no problem with this approach and with delineating what programs and changes are being held up because the Dems have no 'insider' powers at the moment.

Wasn't this supposed to be a co-ordinated thing? I thought all the Dems got the memo and were now singing off the same page. Act like an opposition party. Tell the people who the insiders are.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I think it is a grand strategy-to have Dems seen as Wash OUTSIDERS!
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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Exactly... doesn't everyone despise the "Washington insider?"
Just listening to Washington journal (on Cspan) on any given morning and you hear callers on both sides complaining about how the politicians are all insiders, and don't care about the rest of America.
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Strawman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. Guess the dial survey told him to use "outsider" language
Whatever Kerry. I should have never fallen for your "electability" bullshit. I'll never make that mistake again.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. Kerry Isn't Abandoning Anyone. Thank God He's Moving Forward
and it's obvious he's pitching to the American People.
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
40. Forward? .. what to the next rigged election?? how many we need?
2000 election.. the 2002 election and the 2004 are all filled with verifiable and staticstical evidence of fraud! Now.. if Kerry is working on this behind the scenes... great... gather evidence and then get these bastards ...

So I dont think we are moving forward... Kerry is doing many things... and I admire what he has done, but as the man we backed with time, sweat and tears, I need him to stand up for voting rights! He should declare the voting system unfit for use, hackable and unverifiable. He should make THAT his crusade.. why the kids insurance?? Not that we dont need this, but helping dems get into offices they WIN THE VOTE FOR should be his focus! If he really wants to help kids.. stop trying to get neocons to care, instead work to impeach and unseat them!

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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
17. All families
except if you think these subjects dont concern minority families, or even gay families.

I am confused with your rant, as if the two agendas were incompatible. Are progressive too rich to be bothered by these little details concerning our daily life? Kerry has been supporting the progressive agenda all his life and still is.

But of course, the only thing that matters is gay marriage. We have to stop everything else.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
42. Yeah
To hell with the concerns of the majority, all that matters is that gays can be married! There is nothing else so important as gay marriage. In fact, if gays can marry all our problems will be solved!
:sarcasm:
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second edition Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
18. Kerry is out pushing his "Kids First" initiative
and yes, trying to tell us change won't come unless we want it and push for it. I see nothing wrong with this approach and everything right about it. Our government is suppose to be by the people, for the people- not by the corporations, for the corporations.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. While Bush is out pushing his "Rich First" initiative
just bookending your post title for emphasis.
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
20. He's so damaged goods. This just make him look pathetic.
New people needed. Wanna-be, apologist, mean ad republican ad pullers, nice play guys, we are above that, the judo of politics, the brilliant Rove apology jujitsu, the long winded lost Joe Schmoe at hi, hangers on and generally too comfortable democrats need not apply.

That means you Kerry.

You failed me at "gay".
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. Kerry is too damaged to be president, but at least he's out there fighting
I don't agree with everything he says, but I'm happy to see a Democrat out there getting some press. Good for Kerry for standing up and being heard.

Too bad he didn't fight that hard before the election. :(
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
49. Doesn't look "damaged" to me. Looks like he's back on his feet at last.
And I'll cheer him on anywhere!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
21. He was against gay marriage being in the Dem PLATFORM.
Edited on Mon May-09-05 09:40 AM by blm
You do understand the difference, don't you?

If it's in the platform it means there is consensus for it within the Dem party, when, at this point, there is not.

Kerry thinks gay marriage should be handled more deliberatively. First, marriage, itself, needs to be dealt with as a church/state issue, and if that means that the civil and religious aspects are handled ENTIRELY SEPARATELY, so be it.

Your post against Kerry implies that there is no room for his voice in fighting the Bush regime. Many of us disagree, because he happens to be the most experienced voice we have in the Dem party when it comes to exposing government corruption and incompetence. So far, he has uncovered more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history and yet, YOU want him to shut up and go away.

Interesting, that you would alter his remarks about gay marriage to draw the worst possible conclusion.

When his remarks on this are fully comprehended you will see greater light towards a solution than you think.
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. What good is an experience voice, when you afraid to talk?
he is by far NOT the most experience voice of us, and if that is the consensus we are in BIG trouble.

He had his chance. Let him do the thing that he feels he needs to do, but this pandering, suck up ploy to bringing us who were shocked that he folded like a bad hand on "Celebrity Poker" after the election, and went almost invisble, to being 'Super Non-Centrist Man" is rather disgusting.

Of course his fight against Bush in any way is appreciated on face value, but lets not try to get all worked up about a guy that pulled a ad with McCain calling out monkey, that was the Lyndon Johnson ad of the campaign. As far as voices being more strident, Kennedy calls them out much more than Kerry, along with Dean and Clark; the way us democrats that are tired of playing patty-cake with the Republicans are.

We want powerfull voices that will not back down, and at least do not call Rove to apologize, no matter how elegant the back-slap.

The people who we want need the plain and brutal truth. From people on our side that have the voice, will use it, and not back down. Least of all concede so fast.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. You are simply wrong. You are welcome to name just ONE lawmaker
who has investigated and exposed more government corruption in their career than John Kerry has....name just one.

What you are advocating is that politicians SOUND strident to appease your preference than those who actually dig in to get the real dirty work done.

I think your spin against Kerry is based in falsities set up by the GOp controlled media and have no basis in reality or actiual fact-based history.

Now....name just ONE name of a lawmaker who has investigated and exposed more government corruption than John Kerry has.....one.
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. Who won the election?
if you know Kerry won.. why did he remain silent till after the 20th of January. I like all that Kerry did before this election.. I worked hard on the Kerry campaign.. I did flushing in low income areas here in Northern VA.. I voted on a paperless machine.. I yelled out after I voted, to tell everyone in line that this system is asking for fraud! If you cant see the good he did .. AND the mistake he made... your drinking Kerry koolaid.

we the people will not regain a voice in our nation until we have public awareness of the frauds in '00 ,'02 and '04.. Kerry dropped this HOT potato... Even great men make errors...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #35
50. And now Kerry should disappear and shut up? That's drinking GOP kool-aid
because they want Kerry to disappear and shut up, too.

I would have liked Kerry to fight the vote fraud. But, he didn't. He would have if the evidence was in hand. That's what his history has shown....that even when it was an unpopular task, he worked to expose corruption because the evidence was there.

I don't think Kerry has dropped the ball on vote fraud. I believe it is something he is pursuing away from the glare of the corporate media who would be in constant put-down mode if they knew Kerry was accruing evidence that they ignored.


I know his brother is working quietly on it. Teresa has mentioned it publically. Kerry will speak up if he has evidence in hand. That's his m.o. and I doubt he will stray from that task.
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I want him to STAND UP AND SHOUT!!
I too have thought about how he aproached the Iran-Contra affair, and I hope that he is working behind the scenes gathering evidence and preparing a case for fraud. If he does this he got my vote! I am personally convinced that we will never win elections until the public is aware of the stolen election! We cant get people interested in verifiable elections with the story that bush did win. People then say, so the system works.... and the interest is gone, no election reform. So awareness is VITAL to reform!

so.. GO Kerry! .. help us!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. It took him 14 mths of dirtdigging on IranContra for even a Dem congress
to get involved. It's sad and pathetic that it works that way, but, it's even a thousand times worse today with the GOP in control of everything, including most of the media.
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Chicago1 Donating Member (560 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
22. This is his way of getting everyone pumped FOR THE REVOLUTION
He has to start with something so everyone will get reved up again. I think it's the piece of the strategy to get everyone excited and moving so when Kerry and Edwards come forward and spring it that THEY CHEATED, everyone is all excited and ready to mobiliize.

I believe no matter what they did to campaign, they were going to be defeated with ELECTION FR**D. I don't blame him, I blame the Mafia in the WH for being CROOKED. The WH knows they cheated and it's only a matter of time. There's so much evidence that it's only a matter of time before they collapse and EVERYONE WILL BE THROWN OUT and a NEW democratic Presidency will be installed.

Waiting for the IMPEACHMENT WHILE THE SCANDALS KEEP UNFOLDING
America's Work Stories
http://usworkstories.blogspot.com
[email protected]
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. river in egypt syndrome


I continue to be amazed by the people who insist that Kerry has a strategy that he has been working on to address the fact that he was the second consecutive victim of national election fraud. He has no strategy. There is no plan. The time for Kerry to stand up and speak out was november - january, was when Barbara Boxer stood by herself as the lone senator to protest the election. Where was JK? On vacation again?

There will be no impeachment. We have one party rule and our opposition party's congressional strategy is to suck up to the fascist right at every opportunity so that they can keep their own pork in the odious bills rammed through the legislature.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #25
46. There would be NO impeachment no matter what Kerry did. We don't have a
majority in either House. We don't have the votes .Duh! Kery's lawyers are still working on getting the eveidence released.The courts won't let it go. K/E have active cases in Ohio. Kerry knew he couldn't get the evidence and without it there was no point in continuing.Unlike some , he wasn't willing to overthrow the government ot break the rule of law. I might have done such a thing but I can understand and respect his point of view. Kerry could NOT have spoken out in November or January. He would have looked self serving and it would have accomplished nothing. As far as Boxer was concerned , she stood alone because she asked to. There were other Senators on board and she asked them to stand down. She said they only needed one to make the point and they couldn't do anything anyway.This was her choice so don't whine about that as though she was abandoned! And as to where JK was, He was in Iraq, doing the investigative job the jackass in the WH should have been doing!
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hopein08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
28. Not flaming Kerry at all......BUT....
how in the world can Kerry legitmately and with any degree of believability, adopt the rhetoric of a Washington outsider as a sitting U.S. Senator???!!!

Kerry is doing a pretty good job as a Senator (barring the blight of his position on gay marriage) but he is a Senator. He can't be the "outsider" candidate. It just isn't possible. I want him to work in D.C. I just don't want him to decide that the political tradewinds are blowing in favor of the "outsider" candidate and with the snap of his fingers think he can transform himself into that person. That is what costs Democrats elections.

Sorry, just my humble thoughts.
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second edition Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. I don't think Kerry is actually behaving this way.
I think this is what the media wants us to believe. He is in a unique position and he is doing what he can to keep the promises he made during the election.I appreciate him being the voice I do not have in Washington. I think he is actually carving out a new breed or model of US Senators.
I am sure this administration is not happy with the attention Kerry has received since the election or the course he has taken. They want him to fade away. This would make their agenda easier to accomplish. I say good for John Kerry. He is doing a better job representing my ideals than my own US State Senators are.
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hopein08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. You may be right...
I could not agree more about Kerry being the voice I do not have in Washington. I'm from Pennsylvania so my Senators are Arlen Specter & Rick Santorum. Even my U.S. Representative is the ever dutiful Repug, Phil English. What about you?

My point was simply that you can't be an "outsider" when you're on the "inside." So whether Kerry is actively doing that or it is just political pundits mumbo-jumbo, it just doesn't work out.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
29. If he'll start a REVOLUTION about computerized election fraud
I'll follow him anywhere. But until THAT issue is addressed, all the campaigning in the world, and all of the pressure put on congress, won't do a damn thing. As long as the corporations count our votes in secret, WE, THE PEOPLE don't have a damn thing to say about ANYTHING!

Kerry needs to lead the revolution for transparent, paper ballot, hand count elections, and big penalties for voter disenfranchisement....in any form.

Once we clean up elections in this country, we'll be able to clean up the whole mess these politicians have gotten us into.

:kick:
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Kerry wont have my support either till he says he won the election...
... and points out the electronic evoting is flawed. When they say bush won, say "prove it".... We will not win any elections till this fraud is public knowledge... I know Kerry is on my side and I dont flame him ... but I seriously disagree with the "we'll get them next time" attitude, it wont work.. the system is rigged and wont be repaired till exposed! Kerry made a mistake, still time to correct it... do the right thing Kerry, EVEN if it sinks your senate career... plz! hurry, before bush sinks the whole country!
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
30. is he taking notes from Dean?
Howard said there will B no more 18 state campaigns - what other reason 4 kerry 2 B in LA? gearing up 4 a fight in '06?
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second edition Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. He is out trying to gain support for his "Kids First" initiative. n/t
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
37. He needs to make it more than rhetoric.
How about some trips out of DC and into the hinterlands.
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
38. John Kerry is not the solution to our problems ...
Didn't we learn that in November?
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
39. "rhetoric of a DC outsider" What does THAT mean...telling the truth?
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
43. EIGHT MONTHS TOO LATE!
Edited on Mon May-09-05 03:26 PM by Julius Civitatus
:argh:
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lakeguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. no shit, reminds me of what happened after the coup in 2000
after gore finally came back out from the underground...he was railing on this and yellin at that, really fired up and it was great! why can't these guys do that DURING the campaign instead of after they lose (or win in Gore's case)?
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Kerry NEVER went underground like Gore. He has been visible and fighting
for our values since the day after the election.And I personally think Kerry won as well.
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AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. Apples and oranges - - both the elections and Gore's position v Kerry's
1.) Once Gore was informed how close the vote in Florida was, he did not hesitate to take every legal option available to him (not to other people, to him) in order to fight to have all the votes counted. He only stopped when the Supreme Court ruled, because he had no other LEGAL options after that. Again, other people had legal options - - Senators like John Kerry and Barbara Boxer could have joined the Florida Fourteen in challenging the Florida electors, but they didn't.

During the recount, Gore publicized the various GOP crimes as they came to light - - the forging of absentee ballots, the voter purge, the bogus riot that shut down the Miami Dade recount. During his concession speech and ever since then, he has stated how strongly he disagreed with the Supreme Court ruling but had conceded because he believes in the rule of law. He has even said a few times, on the record, that he believes he won Florida.

In 2004, Kerry conceded immediately when he saw that he had lost Ohio. Edwards was the one who wanted to fight on.

2.) Gore won the popular vote by over 1/2 million votes and "lost" Florida by less than 400 votes (if you accept the official count). If Gore had spent the immediate post election period holding major political events, he would have run the risk of keeping the country as bitterly divided as it was during the recount. Aggressive politicking by Gore also would have run the risk of damaging the legitimacy of not just Smirk, not just the Extreme Court, not just the Constitution, but the rule of law itself. If you have read any of Gore's speeches made before or since the 2000 election, you know he sees his duty to the constitution and America as a much higher duty than his duty to his own career. (And if anybody really thinks we'd be better off having a civil war, I'd suggest they vacation in Iraq to get a taste of what civil war is really like.)

Kerry lost the popular vote by over 3 million. He does not have to worry about the constitutional implications if he campaigns noisily against the government.

3.) Gore was out of office as soon as Smirk was coronated; Kerry is still a Senator. Kerry wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't out making speeches and taking positions. What would Kerry be doing now if he was out of office? The most likely scenario is that he'd be doing lower key, much more infrequent events like Gore and Edwards and Clark, who don't have the plausible deniability that holding office automatically gives someone. "I'm not running for President, really - - I'm just deeply concerned about the impact of higher gas prices on the vitally important lint brush industry here in New Hampshire."
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. You base this on a hypothetical premise that Kerry would be "understated'
because Gore was. There are no facts upon which to base this premise. Your scenario is based on a hypothetical and is therefore not valid. Gore wasn't just low key. He vanished. He made no appearances for two years. He grew a beard and taught journalism. He didn't even say anything when Bush withdrew from Kyoto. Please. He only reappeared when he was considering running to test the waters.
I am not going to belabor the point but the argument could be made that if Gore really disapproved of the ruling and really respected the "rule of law" as he stated, he shouldn't have conceded either as the rule of law was being violated!
John Kerry did exercise every available avenue open to him. Unlike Gore , he was a prosecutor and was well aware of what was needed to show cause. He also knew the courts would never let him get ahold of that evidence in time to contest and he couldn't contest without evidence. he would lose and that would only serve to validate the GOP'S actions.He was proven right by the fact the Ohio Courts have yet to give access to the evidence contained in the voting machines.
None of the other Senators were willing to go forward without evidence either. Another reason why Boxer told everyone she would volunteer alone. I personally would have liked them to stand up and make a statement, but it would be a Pyhrric victory at best. No one was going to overturn this election, and Kerry knew it.
All the popular vote differential indicates is that the pukes got to the machines.
I didn't want Kerry to concede and I was disappointed and angry, but I understand why he did it. He did try to buy some time as the concession isn't binding, but they just played the clock again and blocked the evidence. Ohio was probably always intended to be the deciding point, and Kerry almost knocked it over anyway. In fact, he probably did which is why Blackwell locked everything up!
Make no mistake, John Kerry isn't merely doing his job as Senator. He is doing a whole hell of a lot more. He is behaving as a shadow president and is definitely back on the campaign trail. I think he knows he won.He is running again in 2008 and there is no one who is better suited for the job!
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
48. It's along the exact same lines that Dean laid out today.
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:10 AM by Carolab
Talking about how Republicans are all tied up in knots over a few judicial nominations and not concerned about the real problems of this country--problems that affect us ALL: Health care, jobs, and the high cost of gas. They're reframing the message. Talking about what concerns AMERICA, red, blue or purple.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1773270
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
52. Kerry has all the right ideas...
...but he has to work so hard to be different from what he appears to be.

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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
53. Major groan here. I hope he doesn't start his televised "hunting" again.
I'm sorry, but this public relations tweaking of one's image is just the very thing that got Al Gore into trouble in 2000 (remember the "Alpha Male") and something that John Kerry seems even more prone to experimenting with.

Kerry's uncalled for statement in Louisiana, of all places, last week against gay marriages was contrived and just as unnecessary as his televised hunting last fall before the election where he strutted around with a rifle.

And now he's an "outsider"? He lives on Beacon Hill, is a billionaire married to another billionaire. He'd get more respect by just being himself. John Kennedy never once tried to be an "outsider" or appear "working class". He was comfortable in his skin just as Franklin Roosevelt was.

Like it or not, Bill Clinton was always Bill Clinton. Jimmy Carter was always Jimmy Carter, and even crusty old Lyndon Johnson was always Lyndon Johnson.

I read this story and just groaned. John Kerry is too bright to fall prey to this sort of nonsense. It does not serve him well. He should know better.

Instead of acting like Huey P. Long in Louisiana, he should be himself. Instead of attacking "Washington, D.C.", he should attack the Republicans.
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