Missouri Democrat Clay will switch vote, back abortion bill in House

[Rose Siding]

WASHINGTON - (KRT) - Saying Democrats should be more flexible on hot-button social issues, Rep. William Lacy Clay said Tuesday he will switch his vote on a key abortion bill set for a House vote Wednesday that would make it a crime to help a minor evade a state parental notification law.

Clay, a liberal Democrat from St. Louis, has opposed similar legislation in the past. But he said he would vote in favor of it Wednesday because "the bill is good" and Democrats need to be more "sensible" about some of the politically dicey issues that cost them support among rural and conservative voters in the last election.

"I'm going to follow my church leadership and vote in favor of this bill," said Clay, who is Roman Catholic.

...

"We have to start being flexible" on issues such as abortion and gay rights, Clay said. "Now, that's going to alienate some of my constituents in the pro-choice community. But look, it's time we start telling these constituency groups `Hey, don't be so rigid in your stance and hold us to such a litmus test that it costs us seats. ...'"

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/politics/11495953.htm

[MisterP]

1. oh, God, I don't know what to SAY

repulsive little...

[MADem]

76. I do

What a pandering ASSHOLE!

[kweerwolf]

2. I guess now I understand ...

... why there's an old adage that says, "The only thing more sleazy than a Republican is a St. Louis Democrat."

I hope the search is underway now to find a suitable opponent to challenge this piece of excrement in the next primary.

[davidinalameda]

3. hit up your church leadership next time you run

because you're certainly not representing the party

[AmandaRuth]

4. the sad ironic thing is that the church leadership will still

back and financial support any republican opponent next time he runs, and instruct the flock to do the same.

[renaissanceguy]

102. Indeed. Standing up for what the Party believes in

is not a virtue anymore.

[Eloriel]

124. If you have any proof that the church is financing political candidates

you need to run, don't walk, to www.au.org -- Americans United for the Separation of Church and State who will file a complaint with the IRS and get that church's tax exemption revoked.

ALL churches are specifically prohibited from engaging in electoral politics, either for or against any candidate(s) or political party(ies). Period. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Again, if you have any proof, get busy, and do it NOW.

[KittyWampus]

5. I Am Conflicted About This Issue (Parental Notification)

if it were my kid, I'd demand the right to know.

Of course, if it were my kid.... hopefully child would feel secure enough to tell me.

And if girl was victim of incest, she needs more help and support than just an abortion.

[Carolab]

19. I know and I am conflicted too but the problem is using the church

as a justification for the decision; why not explain it with logic instead, as you just did...

[Voltaire99]

20. Your post is reasonable. However...

What about abusive, violent parents?

Not all young women can depend upon reasonableness. Incest is only the most extreme situation: there are more common problems in America, from alcohol and substance abuse to physical violence, that cause harm to children. Those problems are fuses waiting to be lit. Parental notification is a match.

The state should never endanger the physical and emotional well-being of young women for the hypothetical gain of furthering communication with those parents who do act decently toward their offspring. Nor should we, as Democrats, tolerate the purpose of satisfying one's anti-abortion "church leaders," as the quisling Clay is doing.

[Unions]

28. I helped a friend get an abortion when we were both 18

(no, not my doing) If she had told her parents she would have been on the street and her plans for college a few months later would have been out the door. Her parents were right wing fundie nut jobs and she was terrified.

I realize 18 would not apply, but it's pretty close. If a teen doesn't want to tell her parents then there is usually a reason why vs one who feels ok doing that. I have a feeling the individual would better know what they wanted to do vs the state.

[jdj]

35. parental notification means more late term abortions.

it means aborting a five month old fetus as opposed to a five week old fetus.

it flies in the face of what the pro-life movement says it is about, aren't they at least on the surface working to outlaw ALL late-term abortions?

so it should be obvious what this is about then... delaying the abortion until it is too late legally to do it.

It aint' about concern for no LIVING child, that's for damn sure.

[OzarkDem]

60. Is there any data on that?

Just curious. What has happened in states where there is parental notification for under age 18 vs. no notification requirement? Do they have higher rates of late term abortion for that age group or lower rates of abortion overall?

It would be great if the morning after pill were more available to this group.

[LynneSin]

82. or if the girl suspects her dad will beat the crap out of her

Delaware has parental notification laws but worked with Planned Parenthood to write them so that children who are victems of incest or feel that there is a threat from a family member if they announced they were pregnant - then they can get an abortion without notification. Plus in the state, you only need one parent.

[Orangepeel]

83. I would be in favor of notification IF

there were real procedures to get around it in extreme circumstances, like incest. Of course, there won't be in a republican bill. They may pay lip service to some sort of judicial review, but I don't believe it would be a real alternative.

Even though I consider myself to be strongly pro-choice, an abortion is -- at least -- a medical procedure and in most cases, parents have a right to know. If I had gotten pregnant as a teenager, I wouldn't have told my parents unless I had to. They would have been angry and disappointed, but they wouldn't have beaten me or kicked me out. But I still wouldn't have told them if I could have avoided it.

[Rockholm]

87. You hit the rub, Crying Shame.....

Parental notification? Tell that to the girl whose father or stepfather has been raping her.

[high density]

6. Church leadership... Yeeaah

Because we're building a theocracy in America, right?

[mtnester]

7. "I'm going to follow my church leadership and vote in favor of this bill,"

THIS is the biggest problem facing this country right now. I am sorry, religion has NO place in politics...really it does not. Dammit, render that which is Ceaser's unto Ceaser....

I cannot tell you how enraged/scared this kind of crap makes me. I for one no longer wonder what drives people into the wilderness, putting electric barbed wire fences up and arming themselves to the teeth. I just decided I will study to be an herbalist, and tomorrow we are going to get that AK-47 my hubby has always wanted.

Feh.

[Mountainman]

12. Don't be sorry, you are right about this.

[Initech]

23. This does scare the crap out of me, too.

What happened to the fine line between church and state? Apparently, people are acting like it doesnt exist right now.

[okieinpain]

39. i agree with u. i would like for common sense to be the

deciding factor. not some brain washed sheep.

[Pacifist Patriot]

90. That was the sentence that sent me over the edge.

While I'm not sure how I feel about the bill, I would have more respect for him if he simply said..."I've reviewed the legislation and was elected to public office to represent the best interests of my constituency. I feel this is sound legislation that is in our best interest." Period!

Following church leadership is NOT why I vote for my elected officials.

[MessiahRp]

8. What I find key is they made sure to say

"liberal democrat" in describing him. Doesn't seem all that liberal to me. But of course moderates are left wing extremists in today's day and age when right wing crazies control everything including the media.

Rp

[DanCa]

9. On the flip side of leadership

Howcome Arnold, Rudy G, or Jeb never get called out to the wood shed for failure to listening to Catholic leadership. It seems that the church is only interested in nailling democrats who dont toe the line.

[okieinpain]

40. so true...

[Tempest]

10. Clay takes a sledgehammer to the wall between church and state

He should be recalled for this.

[Mountainman]

11. I don't see any difference between a repub lite Dem and a repub.

Who gives a damn what party you belong to if you are willing to give up on principles.

I will never vote for a anti abortion Dem. I will stay home and not vote. So if there are enough Dems like me and I think there are, this guy is pissing in the wind.

Either we remain progressive or we become just like them. At 59 years old I don't ever see another progressive movement in my life time. I had it good compared to those coming after me.

Go ahead you Dems willing to give in to the right. Give in today and be prepared to give in tomorrow and the tomorrows to follow and guess what, you still won't ever be the party in power.

You stand for something or you stand for nothing in my book. I'd rather lose and have principles than win this guys idea of an election.

[Voltaire99]

24. Great post.

If we had more Democrats like you, the right wouldn't have risen to power with the aid of our own party.

Nor would we now have to listen to lectures from the likes of the quisling Clay on "flexibility."

Nor would we watch as our party leaders crib from our Republican overlords, declaring flipflops important to their election chances.

Today we see before us a party so debauched and available for hire that it is not even shy to declare its own interests supersede our values, our liberties.

Fuck this!

As you say, without principle there is nothing. I shall never vote for an anti-choice Dem, a pro-war Dem, or an anti-labor Dem. I'm a whiskey man; they can keep their hemlock.

[Zorra]

33. I'll second that up and down the block. Well spoken, Mountainman.

[BadNews]

38. This is why progressive Dems should switch to the Green Party.

The Dem party has never really represented progressives.

[Zhade]

48. Damn straight. No votes for Vichy Dems.

Fuck them.

[Rose Siding]

13. Contact info

snip>
Clay said he hears "all the time" from his priest on the issue and has gotten about 1,900 letters and e-mails in support of the bill. He said he's also gotten letters opposing it but "probably not as much."

He has a decent record; no on bankruptcy, yes on Kyoto, and he caucuses with the progressives.
http://www.issues2002.org/House/Bill_Clay.htm#War_+_Peace

Maybe he'd listen.

e-mail: http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Washington, DC Office Address:
131 Cannon House Office Building
Washington D.C., 20515
Phone: [phone]
FAX: [phone]

St. Louis City office:
625 North Euclid Street, Suite #200
St. Louis, MO 63108
Phone: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
Office Hours: 9 a.m. – 5 p.m.

St. Louis County office:
8525 Page Boulevard
St. Louis, MO 63114
Phone: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
Office Hours: 9 a.m. – 5 p.m.

[Roy]

18. 1900 letters and emails

Clay may well have received this many replies, but I doubt they were from his district.

[BlueIris]

53. Please take the extra second and fire something off, everyone.

It really is that important. Thanks, Rose!

[BlueIris]

64. Congressman Clay is a hard man to reach. You could try writing

these e-mails, though:

His Chief-of-Staff is supposedly: [email protected]

And according to conservativeusa.org, Mr. Clay can be e-mailed at:

[email protected]

Take that second one with a grain of salt, though, kids. It could be that Mr. Clay, who has, like many, set up his website and virtually all sites that have requested his information so that you can only send him e-mail through WriteYourRep, as a member of his district. His prerogative, of course, (most legislators are drowning in e-mail) but I think that's really cowardly.

Once again, those of us who think he's making a bad call are concerned about his support for the Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act. The sane hopefully want him to vote no.

[Voltaire99]

14. Thanks, Howard and Hillary

"I'm going to follow my church leadership and vote in favor of this bill," said Clay, who is Roman Catholic.

You're not representing the Catholic church, asshole.

Here is where Dean and Hillary's retreat from principle has led us--into Clay pretending he can cover his reactionary politics in the pathetic language of "flexibility."

"Now, that's going to alienate some of my constituents in the pro-choice community. But look, it's time we start telling these constituency groups `Hey, don't be so rigid in your stance and hold us to such a litmus test that it costs us seats. ...'"

Fuck your seats. We aren't concerned about your political fortunes, asshole; this is about freedom.

[BlueIris]

44. What Voltaire posted. GodDAMN. n/t

[Zhade]

49. Indeed!

NT!

[Eloriel]

125. Shame on all of you for misrepresenting what Dean said

His is NOT a retreat on abortion, not for a second. His thing is REFRAMING THE ISSUE.

Hillary, I think that's another matter, tho don't quote me.

[Zhade]

127. I'm talking about Clay, not Dean.

NT!

[CTLawGuy]

98. what did Dean say to encourage this?

he clearly said the party should be in favor of a woman's right to make their own decisions.

What he said is that we should shake the RW pro-abortion meme.

[Democat]

15. This guy is a coward who Democrats can not trust

Time to run a real Democrat against this flip flopper.

[mike_c]

16. DINO-- hopefully an endangered species....

:banghead:

[Terran]

88. Clay is NOT a DINO

Check his voting record before you say that.

I don't agree with this at all, but Clay is no DINO--he comes from a family dynasty of African-American progressives.

[IndianaGreen]

17. "I'm going to follow my church leadership and vote in favor of this bill"

"I'm going to follow my church leadership and vote in favor of this bill," said Clay, who is Roman Catholic.

Papa Ratzi will be pleased with Clay returning to the One True Faith by voting against abortion rights, gay rights, and for the banning of naughty books such as The DaVinci Code and the Harry Potter series.

With friends like Clay, who needs enemies?

:banghead:

[bling bling]

21. Unbelievable quote. Just unbelievable.

I've typed and erased about 6 comments about that quote here but I can't seem to convey what I want to say without obsenely bad language so I give up.

[bunkerbuster1]

100. follow... my... church... leadership...

Jesus Christ on chemo. this is a nightmare.

[Javaman]

22. Okay, so flexible now means taking away a persons rights...

Just making sure, I didn't get the memo. Clay is a colossal jackass.

[The_Casual_Observer]

25. This guy is a Judas.

And takes pleasure in the concept of coat hanger abortions, it must put a twinkle in his goat shaped eyes.

[Kool Kitty]

26. This is bad.

If religion is going to start having such a major impact on politics, perhaps the government should start taxing churches.

[Zorra]

27. Clay should resign immediately because his religious beliefs

supercede his ability to legislate for his constituents well being, and his ability to make proper judgements regarding seperation of church and issues where there is a clear need to be objective is obviously lacking.

He is doing a disservice to himself and his constituents by remaining in office. He really should resign.

[CTLawGuy]

96. Why do people like him do this?

Do they think the fundies are going to vote for him because he supported parental notification laws?

Or are they going to vote for the repug who is all-out anti abortion?

The latter is what they will do.

All he's doing with this move is disillusioning his base. This is typical DLC shoot-yourself-in-the-foot tactics.

[Erika]

29. Missouri is a rat hole.

I'll never forget the impassioned testimony of a social worker who was testifying for a minor who had been raped by her father. The child had been threated if she said one word about the father being responsible for the pregnancy she would die, and to just deliver.

You Missourians have my empathy. I hope you all blast this guy.

[bling bling]

50. Pretty much.

Very frustrating state to live in lately.

St. Louis is a strong blue city. Before tonight I at least took comfort in that. But now I feel like I have nothing. Even the democratic reps here are f-ing completely nuts.

Why should dems here waste time to go out and vote anymore to get representation like this?! If the church leaders will be the ones essentially casting the votes whether we have a dem or repub representative I hardly see why it's worth my time to go to the polls.

[OzarkDem]

61. Kerry abandoned Missouri

early on in his campaign and it seemed to have a negative affect on the Dem party there. Not to say its his fault, though, but it didn't help. So many states are in the same situation, very demoralizing.

[MontageOfFreedom]

30. Hmm this is a controversial move but I think....

Clay has a very good explanation and idea for doing this. However, Clay doesn't know that the religious right out there is neither religious or right.

He probably should be educated about that fact....Being a catholic does not mean you neccesarily, support the extreme views of neo conservatives. At least I would hope not, under any degree.

[Erika]

31. Tell that to the girl who was raped by her father and

told to keep her mouth shut and deliver.

[MontageOfFreedom]

36. My opinion of Mr. Clay has since reversed after this comment.

"hold us to sucha litmus test that we lose seats..."

Mr. Clay, if that is what this is about and not people's civil rights I can not even pretend to believe in what you are doing.

Since when have abortion and child protection laws been about making money? This is disgraceful....Just because the whole church house does it doesn't mean you need to do it too.

It's like the old saying goes that was part of an old testament...

"Do as I say, not as I do." This standard is short sighted. Its like saying if everyone jumps off the same swimming pool board, you should do it too.

I feel you are no different than Roy Blunt and I thought you were progressive!

[me b zola]

58. We have lost seats, Clay's is one of them.

Everytime will give up one of our basic Democratic values we give up sacred ground to the repugs. Listen, we are going backward in time & giving up rights & liberties along this path.

For all of these "Dems" who are having their Halliluah moments at the expense of the Constitution & the American people, they should form their own party and leave the Democratic Party alone.

[MontageOfFreedom]

70. I agree, it has become disgraceful.

I don't even like to tow any political party line because they all seem corrupt. But John Kerry, the current president in exile changed my mind to show there is still some good in many people in power.

And Clay just isn't close to being one of those. Selling out for religion is just insane, why doesn't he wake up and look at what Ken Salazar and other strong defenders have done?

[gort]

32. Don't tell me how to vote

and I won't tell you how to pray. How's that for flexible?

What part of separation of Church and State don't these bastards understand?

[BadNews]

42. There should be not official state religion is their line.

In the view of many who are religious, politicians should vote for laws that they deem ethical. For someone who believes abortion is murder, you may as well tell them they should vote to make other murder legal as well. Believing homosexuals should be granted the right to marry is also an ethical issue and those politicians who feel this way should oppose any gay marriage bans. From a legal stand point, the separation of church and state does not apply to ethical votes by politicians.

Having said that, his reasoning for voting for this bill is vile. He is simply holding his finger to the political winds which will determine his voting. I have no problem with any politician that is anti-choice IF it is truly because of moral convictions. However, politicians like this, make me sick. Please, stand for something!!

If you are clearly pro-choice or pro-life, at least we know how you will represent us and the people can choose which direction we want the country to go.

[MontageOfFreedom]

45. Strangely I couldn't have said it better. n/t

[jdj]

34. I will leave this party if this "sensibility" bullshit meme catches on.

I mean it.

If they would get off their asses and organize the footsoilders and fight for paper ballots, we never would have gotten fucked like this in the first place.

[ngGale]

47. "I will leave this party if" ....I'm beginning to feel the same way.

Clay is not alone in suggesting that Democrats reframe certain core issues. Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean and Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., have, for example, suggested stressing legislation to make abortion rarer.

Clay he said he was not advocating that Democrats abandon their abortion-rights stance.

"I think there's still enough we can do to protect Roe v. Wade. ... It is more about being sensible on some of these issues."
_______________________snip_______________________________

Look at the Dems falling in line, Repub Lite's all of them.
They all keep saying we need to stay in Iraq to, what the heck is going on? They can tow the line and still protect Roe v. Wade, I don't think so. Especially if Smirk gets in only two activists judges.

I'm going to be walking "Green" if they don't have the guts to stand up to the religious right and come back to their base.

:nuke:

[StrongbadTehAwesome]

37. !@$(*"*(@#&$(*!#!

That's it. I'm moving to East St. Louis. I'd thought it was better to live in a blue area of a red state (urban MO) than a red area of a blue state (suburban/rural IL)...but now that my rep is changing how he votes...I'm outta here.

I never liked Clay that much to being with; he was too much of a machine politician to begin with. But at least his politics were in line with mine. Until now, I guess.

[AndyTiedye]

41. You Know You Are Bending Over Too Far When

[BadNews]

43. Sorry, I can't see the pic.

[Zhade]

46. "We have to start being flexible" - FUCK YOU.

Our rights are not open for negotiation.

[BlueIris]

54. THAT'S WHAT I SAY.

Often and loudly. I've also started reminding those in favor of welcoming the anti-choice to the Democratic Party, that when the tide turns, we WILL remember who voted to brutalize women and who opposed that disgusting, hypocritical, misogynist violence. There shouldn't be any mercy toward supporters of this insanity now, but there definitely won't be any then.

[Lorien]

93. "Flexible"= move ALL the way to the right

on issues that are important to the fundementalists in this country. DINOs like this weaken the party by adding legitimacy to RW positions. Hopefully a true dem will run against him in the next primary.

[Gelliebeans]

51. We need to keep a list

of this people for 2006 elections as information for the voters.

maybe we could post these kinds of articles in Demopedia or something so we can roll them out in the coming elections when it comes time to back some of these politicians.

Some people may disagree but we really need to keep tabs on these politicians.

[BadNews]

52. A tab with each Senator/Congressperson would do nicely n/t

[BlueIris]

55. ::shakes head:: Just what I was thinking.

Great minds...vote Democrat, I guess.

[Gelliebeans]

56. self delete dupe n/t

[Gelliebeans]

57. thanks for the compliment

I am not real familiar with Demopedia, could we create a forum and separate them by states and file each news article in the appropriate states so that when these people want to get elected we will have proof of their past at our fingertips.
I am looking now but if you want to help me (please please please) I will see what I can do

What cha think?
gelliebeans

[Quetzal]

59. There is a DUer on here that is one of his staffers

perhaps he would be interested in explaining Congressman Clay's decision.

[BlueIris]

63. Which one (because I WOULD like an explanation)?

Chief of Staff: Darryl Piggee
Appt. Secy.: Karyn Long
Legis. Dir.: Michele Bogdanovich
Press Secy.: Ishmael-Lateef Ahmad
Defense LA: Les Davis
Child/Family Issues LA: Michelle Allen
Health LA: Michelle Allen
Banking LA: Les Davis
Foreign Policy LA: Michele Bogdanovich
Education LA: Michelle Allen
Agriculture LA: Les Davis
Telecomm LA: Michele Bogdanovich
Campaign Reform LA: Les Davis
Energy LA: Michele Bogdanovich
Environment LA: Michele Bogdanovich
Judiciary LA: Michele Bogdanovich
Tax LA: Les Davis
Transportation LA: Michele Bogdanovich
Appropriations LA: Michele Bogdanovich
Student Loan LA: Michelle Allen

Any of you listed here who might be members here want to enlighten us as to what the man you work for is thinking?

[Quetzal]

67. correction: He is one of his interns

not his permanent staffer.

I'll PM this thread to him.

[BlueIris]

71. Excellent. Perhaps this intern would like to contribute here.

Enlighten us. Help us understand. Or perhaps he or she would like to call up his or her boss this morning and report a few of our opinions. Yes, bad career move, but I'm thinking so is continuing to intern for Mr. Clay. Mr. Clay's Intern, why is Mr. Clay being a goddamned moron making such a bad, irrational, misguided call in support of something so viciously anti-choice my Republican, Catholic grandmother (who IS one of Mr. Clay's voters) can't get behind it? Why? WHY?

[Solly Mack]

62. Follow Church? Become a priest and GET OUT of SECULAR government

We live by secular law not religious teachings.

Any person in Congress (state or federal) that doesn't understand this point needs to get their theocratic, piss poor excuse for a lawmaker ass out of America's secular government.

No..No...No...Goddamn NO!

Not only are they destroying America but they are destroying religion when they pretend religious teachings are somehow equal to secular law within a secular government. Wake the fuck up, already! Only a fool would believe the right wing would allow any religion but their own to exist.

Keep feeding the right wing , people...and you'll live under a right wing theocracy. All this bullshit let me "interject my religious teachings into secular law to prove I am religious and being reasonable" is PLAYING INTO RIGHT WING HANDS. The right wing WANT the democrats to do this...Get a fucking clue, people!!!!!!
The right wing are playing you and you're falling for it. They framed it as a religious debate and instead of supporting the Constitution and maintaining the separation of church and start, democrats are falling over each other to prove they are religious and calling it "reasonable". Gawds...how goddamn stupid does a person have to be to not see what the right wing is doing?

Take your motherfucking religious wars elsewhere. Just get them OUT of America.

[BadNews]

114. Perhaps, In Theory, But.......

Until the voting public decides to vote them out of jobs, they will remain and attempt to make laws that mirror their religions. If that is what the people want, that is what they will get. The public needs to be educated because it is very legal for an elected official to mimic his religious beliefs through his legislative voting record.

[Solly Mack]

119. Congress uses religion like a whore uses a red light

it's to attract customers ...the whore don't much care who the customers are as long as they're paying...neither does Congress...the only difference is the whore doesn't pretend she's/he's doing the work of the Lord.

[BadNews]

120. Guess What?? It Works Well. Business is Good. n/t

[Solly Mack]

121. Selling out the people always works well...it's profitable

and when the people also support you while you're selling them out..well, that's just the golden shower bonus.

[leftchick]

65. I have helped many friends in this situation....

I can think of 7 friends of mine right off the top of my head who have had abortions. Only one ever told her folks and even then it was just her father (very cool man God rest his soul). All of these gals were under 18 years at the time and back (over 25 yrs) then we had to drive quite a ways to get to a clinic. I can only imagine the horrors this will inflict on young women who will now have to comply with not one but two state laws in order to be treated. I know this bill is going to pass the house but damn, it better not pass in the Senate.

:(

[BlueIris]

66. Seriously: please send some e-mail.

Snail mail is better, or an e-fax, and I'm told that mail from outside any congressperson's district, electronic or otherwise, is usually discarded, but obviously, time is of the essence. Explain why this is such a bad call, especially for a Democrat. My post above may help. If anyone has better contact info for this guy, please post it.

[MADem]

78. Snail mail is AWFUL, go for a fax, or an EMAIL

Trust me on this. They take all the Hill mail and they gas it, inspect it, irradiate it, go through all sorts of shit with it, because of the anthrax thing and the fear of something going boom.

It takes TWO WEEKS, minimum, assuming no snags in the system, to get a letter to the Hill. Postcards are slightly faster, but not much. Fax is good because you can SIGN the thing, and stupid congresscritters who aren't good with them there internets have a piece of paper they can hold...

If you know an intern or a staffer, they are getting around this bullshit by sending the mail to the home address of the office workers, who are bringing it in from their place. It is happening a lot, but you have to be a "known quantity" to be able to do that.

[BlueIris]

79. Yes, e-mail. I'm still curious to see if

[email protected] really gets you some version of the congressman, himself. Or if [email protected] gets you his Chief of Staff.

[ProfessorGAC]

68. So Forget Principle; Forget Social Justice

As long as Clay gets to keep his precious job in D.C.
The Professor

[Catfight]

69. VOTE him out or RECALL him. PERIOD. Don't take this shit America!

[BlueIris]

73. Catfight, send him e-mail/e-fax!

Yes, it's probably "too late," but it's not too late to explain to Mr. Clay how unacceptable his decision and his spin on his reasons for it are.

Once again, please try C.O.S. Darryl Piggee: [email protected]

or: (allegedly Mr. Clay himself) [email protected]

He's trying to vote for the Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act. Sane people should explain to him why that's fucked up.

Please, let me know what happens with those addys, everyone. My letters to those e-mails haven't been kicked back yet, so I'm thinking they might be real (thanks, conservativeusa.org)!

[area51]

72. Becky Bell.

I can understand parents' concerns, but please remember the story of Becky Bell.

[dsc]

74. I have no idea what he thinks he will accomplish by this

It is one thing to advocate, as Dean has, that if you have a candidate who is pro life that you would other wise nominate you should nominate and support the person. That is a sensible position.

It is another to just flip flop on issues. If Clay felt this was a good bill he should have voted for it in 2002. This just pisses everyone off.

[BlueIris]

75. I noticed that he had opposed this in '02, as well.

Which just makes him look even more ridiculous (and hypocritical), you're right. Still haven't gotten those letters kicked back, if anyone cares. It's five seconds, just to let him and/or a member of his staff know your thoughts.

[annabanana]

77. email him..

If you pretend to be from Missouri, go to
http://www.house.gov/writerep/
and enter zip code # 63114-1234

If he wants to follow his religious leaders, he doesn't have to have an abortion himself.

The words "flexible" and "choice" kind of go together.

Women will always try to get abortions if their situations are desperate. Rich ones go on "vacation", poor ones die of sepsis on kitchen tables.

MY religious leaders don't tell me I can't have an abortion if I need one. Why can't I follow MY religious leaders?

"safe, legal and rare"

[Southern Dem 2005]

80. The bill is going to pass regardless of Clay's vote

And all the people threatening to leave the Dem party--go ahead and do so.

And I agree with Clay's comment regarding the fact that pro-choice folks need to be a little more flexible and a little less strident. The only people in the Dem party that make the party look bad are the hardcore pro-choice zealots. They are the Dem's equivalent of the religious right nuts.

[MontageOfFreedom]

81. I really do not think you read all his words.....

He's not doing any of this for conservatives or their values and whatever that means, he's doing this so that Missouri democrats don't lose their seats.

[lukasahero]

84. What rights are YOU willing to give up?

It's so easy for a man to say we should be less strident about rights that only affect women so what rights will you be "a little more flexible" about giving up? Do you think Dems who support racial equality are too "strident" and make "us" look bad? Are you willing to forfeit them? (And if so, are you white?)

[Southern Dem 2005]

89. I didn't say we should give up any rights

I just think that the pro-choice people often do more harm than good, especially with their unwilingness to compromise on any issue. Look at the reaction on this board--people want to recall Clay or are threatening to leave the Dems because he is voting for a bill that would basically ensure parental notification laws are effective. It doesn't take away anyone's right to an abortion, just limits a minors ability to have one. Abortion is a divisive issue and there are TONS of Dems who are pro life.

[Kitsune]

94. If there are TONS of Dems who are pro-life...

then why do opinion surveys routinely show that 60+% of Americans support Roe v. Wade?

[Justitia]

111. And who has to live w/the CONSEQUENCES of forced birth?

Forced birth forever changes the person it is forced on.
If a woman's parents say "no" to her termination decision, she is forced to become a parent.

Why do her parents HAVE ANY RIGHT to FORCE HER TO BECOME A PARENT if she clearly does not want to become one? Once you become a parent, you are always a parent (even if she puts her child up for adoption) for the rest of your life.

Why do her parents, who have no responsibility to her or the child (teenage motherhood means automatic legal emancipation) have the ultimate determination of her life, when they have to accept NO CONSEQUENCES as a result? She does - not them!

And what of the forced paternity of the teenage male by her parents?

Ever give any prolonged thought to the network of lifetime consequences?? No, probably not, I'd guess.

[Kerrytravelers]

116. Sure. We don't mind giving up the personal choice of our health care that

should be between a woman, her doctor and anyone she chooses to confide in. In fact, lets go all the way and not let a woman vote. Those pesky civil rights.

And I'm sure all our GLBT DUers would happily give up their civil rights to marriage, of legal recognition of their relationshios, and happily go back to the days when who you love would directly determine what career you could have and where you could live. Those pesky civil rights.


I bet all of our African-American DUers would happily return to the days before men like Martin Luther King led the Civil Rights Movement. Those pesky civil rights.


I guess I'm just a zealot. A zealot for civil rights and equality.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

99. Jesus fucking Christ...

another man who feels women need to "be a little more flexible and a little less strident" on autonomy over her own body. Cause that is what Choice is about -- women's autonomy over their bodies.

I am sick to death of being told I need to give up some of my civil rights to gain seats/get pro-life voters/appear more moderate.

"The only people in the Dem party that make the party look bad are the hardcore pro-choice zealots."

That's funny, I think the only people who make the Party look bad are the DINOS/DLC and others who turn their backs on core Democratic principles in a lame attempt to out GOP the GOP. :eyes:

[Southern Dem 2005]

103. Exactly the response I expect from a zealot

Abortion is not and never should be a "core principle." Roe has been an anchor around the neck of the Dem party since it was issued.

The thing that always amazes me is how little pro-choice advocates know about the issue. It is not a civil rights issue, and Roe v. Wade is an absolutely horrid piece of legal nonsense.

[lukasahero]

105. "Abortion" is not a core value - a woman's right to make decisions

regarding her own body, personal privacy and the ability of a doctor to inform a woman on her health and her life definitely are. And that IS a civil rights issue.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

106. Dude...

it doesn't look like I'm the one who does know about squat about the issue. "It is not a civil rights issue..." -- yeah, right. :eyes:

Yeegads...

[ngGale]

126. It is not a civil rights issue! Yes, it is ...

Dread-Scott = Roe v Wade

Roe came in because of Dread-Scott, civil rights is the issue. Yes, it's a healthcare issue, but when Roe goes, so goes the rest of civil rights. Domino theory...this bunch will call you on it too!

I remember times before Roe, believe me you don't want to go there.

[BadNews]

115. Not All Pro-Life Dems Are Men n/t

[enough already]

85. Hillary

Isn't "flexibility" on these issues what Hillary has suggested? One more reason to reject her '08 candidacy.

[Vogon_Glory]

86. This Bill Is Anti-Family

This parental notification bill is a genuinely anti-family bill. This bill not only criminalizes friends and acquaintances for taking under-age women across state lines to get an abortion without parental consent, but also criminalizes sisters, brothers, aunts, and cousins for doing so.

The Far Right has passed a lot of wind about their so-called respect for family. Family crises and how well the law relates to those crises are crunch-time examples of how well their rhetoric matches reality. This bill bill demonstrates just how hollow so-called "conservative" rhetoric really is.

To the right-wing lurkers out there: with bills like these, I want you to know that I think your claims of being "pro-family" are so much horse droppings.

[sescob]

91. Be flexible?

That's what the GOP wants! For us to be so flexible, that inevitably we let them pass all the pro-life and anti-gay legislation they want!!

[jukes]

92. "I'm going to follow my church leadership and vote in favor of this bill,"

and vote in favor of this bill,"


WTF? are all dems going to roll over to theocracy?

i believe this country is headed for an internal bloodbath.

[Justitia]

109. He's doing the bidding of his church, MAKING LAW at his CHURCH'S REQUEST

[HockeyMom]

113. Afraid of being denied Communion?

Well, I actually stopped going to communion as a teenager while still in CATHOLIC SCHOOL exactly because I disagreed with them on birth control and abortion. They would ask me why I wasn't taking communion and I told them in PROTEST.

Maybe they should all get a spine.

[dhinojosa]

95. Well there are always "back-alley" abortions for minors!!!!

What an asshole. :sarcasm:

[Bo]

97. I am a Liberal and oppose abortion..whats the big deal?

[renaissanceguy]

101. But if you refuse a woman's right to her own body

then you are no better than the RW fascists.

[Southern Dem 2005]

104. Its not a big deal, unless you listen to the zealots on this board

I don't get it either. These people are unwilling to give an inch. I imagine they would support an abortion for a 10 year old without parental notice.

[Justitia]

110. Which of YOUR "inches" are you willing to give?

Because I think a male should have his testicles regulated by the state as well as any female has to "give".

[BadNews]

117. Not All Pro-Lifers Are Men. Some Are Women and Democrats n/t

[Justitia]

118. Point being: Not ONE of them should have more control of my body than me

Only I get to decide the fate of my own body - no one else.

The idea of men controlling women's bodies is simply another layer of absurdity and horror.

[Jax]

112. Zealots???

I do see the usual misogynists have shown up, with their typical right wing spew.

Jax

[ast_liberal2008]

107. he's following his political heart

but he should be casting votes based on what is right, not what will win Dems more seats. The repukes will help us out with that by alienating voters

[KamaAina]

108. Breaking: Hillary announces choice of running mate for '08

The selection of the little-known Missouri DINO left Washington observers flabbergasted, particularly in light of the fact that the junior New York Senator has yet to announce her own candidacy.

Is "being flexible" some sort of Missouri slang for "caving in", or is he just being mealy-mouthed?

[BlueIris]

122. Didn't think I could get even a little laugh out of this awful

situation, especially after reading some of the offensive, "it's not a big deal" bullshit being spewed by ignorant misogynists on this board, but this makes me snicker. In a bitter, horrible way. Yes, I get what the party might be doing here, yes, I get why the THINK it's effective strategy. BUT IT ISN'T. IT'S MISOGYNY. AND IT ISN'T GOING TO GET DEMOCRATS ELECTED. And my formerly beloved Hillary is putting her face on it. Okay, all of that is for another thread, I guess. Thanks for the (small, dry) chuckle.

[mountainvue]

123. Did this guy's constituents elect him

to follow the leadership of his church?