Pope's home town witnessed Nazi atrocities against Jews

[NNN0LHI]

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=631896

Pope Benedict XVI grew up in a German town in which Polish and Hungarian Jews were once massacred on a death march through its streets by SS guards. It also had a Nazi concentration camp on its doorstep.

The disturbing account of Nazi rule in Bavarian Traunstein, where the Pope went to school and spent the years of his youth, is in a brief history of the town by a local author, Friedbert Mühldorfer, available in the town library. The book, seen by The Independent yesterday, reveals atrocities, expulsion of Jews, widespread use of slave labourers, persecution of anti-Nazis and details of the camp on the town's outskirts. Somewhat remarkably, none of the events described appear to have been mentioned in the Pope's autobiography, Milestones, which was published in 1997.

The most shocking revelations concern 3 May 1945 when the new Pope may have been in the town. Thousands of starving, mainly Jewish, prisoners were marched from the concentration camps of Buchenwald and Flossenberg in advance of the invading Red Army.

Mühldorfer says the people of Traunstein were ordered to close streets to traffic as a column of emaciated prisoners was herded through by SS guards. "They marched past people who showed sympathy and even gave them food, as happened at one Traunstein bakery," the author writes.

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[w4rma]

1. Rat was still in the Nazi military then. He hadn't yet deserted so he was

probably helping *commit* the atrocities in his town.

It's no small wonder that he didn't mention that in his autobiography.

[atreides1]

4. Not True

According to his biography he had already deserted by this time.

But then again, this is according to him and his brother.

[w4rma]

6. Nope. "He deserted in the waning months of the war in 1945..."

"He deserted in the waning months of the war in 1945 and returned to Traunstein, where he was taken prisoner by U.S. troops."
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/04/19/ratzinger.profile/

[onehandle]

9. The war ended on May 7th, 1945.

And he was an anti-aircraft gunner, not a member of the SS.

He was hiding from the SS once he deserted his post.

[atreides1]

25. Not accurate

When he deserted he was serving in the infantry, he had been released from his service in the Flak Corps in September of 1944.

Upon returning home he received another draft notice and was placed
in an auxillary unit that provided support for the Wehrmacht, where he was trained in "the cult of the spade". He was posted to the Hungarian border area of Austria, and upon the surrender of Hungary he was put to work in erecting anti-tank defenses in preparation of
an expected Red Army offensive. On November 20, 1944, his unit was released from service.

Ratzinger returned home and after three weeks was drafted a third time, only this time he received basic infantry
training and was posted near Munich, his unit was never sent to the
front. In the waning days of the war he deserted and went home, he was briefly placed in a POW camp by the US, but was released in June of 1945.

[atreides1]

22. Check your history

The waning months of WWII were April and May when he reportedly deserted, remember the war in Europe eneded in May of 1945.
He was picked up by US troops because his name was on a list of deserters he remained in custody until June of 1945.

Here's the part from Wikipedia

"In late April or early May, days or weeks before the German surrender, Ratzinger deserted. He left the city of Traunstein and returned to his village on the outskirts."

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. In other words, when the pope had a moral dilemma at a young age

He made the wrong choice.

When today's youth have a moral dilemma at a young age (pregnancy, being gay)- they are immediately branded as evil even though their moral dilemmas don't sacrifice any life that has ALREADY been born

[barbaraann]

3. The Bible requires stoning to death for rebellious teenagers.

http://www.au.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr001=nnbrzh0291.app13a&abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=6220&news_iv_ctrl=1483

Which is a problem is you are a teenager under an evil government.

[onager]

5. Can't wait to see how the Ratzi apologists spin this one

By the time they get done, the teen-age Ratzi will have single-handedly stormed the local Nazi garrison, saved all those Jews, and probably fed them by performing his very own miracle of the loaves and fishes.

[vpigrad]

7. Exactly!

But when did you ever expect logical thinking for people that believe in fairy tales?

[Scurrilous]

8. Well...

...seeeing that the article states Ratzinger was in hiding from the SS (due to his desertion), I doubt he would have made an appearance when the SS marched the Jewish prisoners through the town.

[onehandle]

10. And the war ended 4 days later.

He was an anti-aircraft gunner, not a member of the SS.

He was hiding from the SS once he deserted his post.

[0007]

11. He most certainly would have known, wouldn't ya think?

[Scurrilous]

13. Known what?

That the SS had marched Jewish prisoners through town? Does that make him complicit?

He was hiding from the very same people who were committing this crime.

[calimary]

26. In all fairness, I'm only mildly concerned about this aspect of his

biography. When I was in elementary school, the parents of one of my classmates and friends were German. The mom was part of the Hitler Youth. It was something they all did as kids, as it was described to me. My friend - AND her parents - were some of the nicest people, least judgmental, most tolerant, and most humble. They appreciated life in this country, and conducted themselves accordingly. Perhaps "Joey Ratz" was one of those. And anyone who's seen enough of my insufferable insufferableness here should know I'm certainly no fan of "Benny the Backward" as he's shown his colors in the present, and recent past.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[unblock]

14. every nazi was a deserter, none of them wanted to fight for hitler

at least, that's what all of them have been saying every since v-e day.

[onager]

15. And no German....

...ever appeared in a Leni Riefenstahl movie, enthusiastically cheering Hitler, either.

Those were just a bunch of extras the Nazi government hired. I'm pretty sure they were all atheists and Communists, trying to make the Xian Germans look bad.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[unblock]

19. my point: his actions and words are 100% consistent with being a nazi

no, i don't have proof that he committed atrocities or enjoyed what he did in the army or as a hitler youth.

and, yes, it's certainly possible that he felt the right thing morally and did everything he thought he could have done under the circumstances.

all i'm saying is that i've seen no proof that on the other side either. claiming to have deserted was what many true nazi believers did. in fact, many true nazi believers actually DID desert as the red army neared.

so i'm not willing to dismiss his role in wwii. in any event, i'm amazed that they picked someone with this sort of skeleton question in his closet. did the runner-up have something worse in his background???

all i can think is that it was a strategic pick among younger cardinals who are hoping this pope passes at an opportune time for them to become the next pope.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[unblock]

28. if i met him as a humble peer in real life, sure. but as a pope, NO.

i don't think it's too much to ask that there not be such doubts about a pope's past, or his later and even current attitudes about his own past.

for crying out loud, we vet cabinet members better than this.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[Bridget Burke]

17. Nah--all that theology stuff is too complicated.

Simply calling the new Pope a Nazi is much easier.

[thebigidea]

18. see, this is why you don't make a former Hitler Jugend Pope

because for some strange reason, when people hear the word "Hitler," they jump to the darndest conclusions.

Perhaps finding a cardinal who didn't serve Hitler may have avoided all this unpleasantness?

[unblock]

21. exactly! as i said in an earlier thread,

how do you tell the runner-up that they just don't stack up as high in the moral leadership category as that hitler youth / german army guy?

at a minimum, this sends a VERY bad signal to the jewish community and to the catholic interfaith efforts.

[Scurrilous]

23. I blame JFK...

...he had to go to Berlin and declare "Ich bin ein Berliner," and make the German people think all was forgiven and whatnot.

Nothing is forgiven. Once a Hitler Youth, always a Hitler Youth!

[thebigidea]

24. JFK was Christ now? He died for Germany's sins?

not that i'm on board with the POPE NAZI! campaign, its just that I can understand why people are upset and occasionally overreacting in an uninformed way about it... its natural when the word HITLER is being used. He did some rather unpleasant stuff, i'm told - so its not surprising that those associated with his good deeds get a certain amount of flak.

If they didn't want NAZI!NAZI!NAZI! overreactions, they shouldn't have elected a former Hitler Youth. Goes with the territory. Maybe he's totally inncocent and wonderful and good and true and forgiven and loves Jews - still won't stop many people from shrieking at the word Hitler incorporated into his resume.

It'd be the same if it were a Democratic Senator or whatnot - we all know Byrd is a good guy and has madeup for his fuckups, but the KKK stuff will follow him to his grave.

[CentralEuropeanDude]

20. some people say ... the new Pope MAY HAVE BEEN in the town

my ass, this is first class journalism.

[IndianaGreen]

30. Ratzinger was too busy playing at being a Hitler Youth to take notice!

The Hitler Youth was a voluntary organization and was not the German version of the Boy Scouts.



By 1935, sixty percent of Germany's youth had joined the Nazi youth movement. Joining at the age of ten, boys were indoctrinated in all aspects of Nazi ideology, and particularly brainwashed in anti-Semitism. Encouraged to translate ideas into action, many later became active participants in Germany's mass murder of European Jews.

http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/pages/t030/t03025.html