MSNBC: Jeb Bush Praises Scientologists

[Edgewater_Joe]

By Jeannette Walls
MSNBC
Updated: 2:38 a.m. ET April 5, 2005

While the religion of Tom Cruise and John Travolta has been getting some tough press in recent days, it’s also been lauded by President Bush’s brother.

Florida Governor Jeb Bush raised eyebrows among the critics of the sometimes controversial religion recently when he honored Scientology volunteers who helped victims of hurricanes in his state.

Members of the group — which was put in the spotlight this week by the New York Daily News for its alleged anti-homosexual philosophy — were given a “Points of Light Award” as Hurricane Heroes. Scientology volunteers have been high profile at disaster scenes recently, distributing food and water, as well as delivering controversial “touch assist” healings that supposedly help victims through the laying on of hands.

“The Bush brothers have both been good to some groups that have been called cults,” says Rick Ross of CultNews.com. “Governor Bush has recognized Scientology while his brother in the White House has actually appointed a follower of Reverend Moon to dole out tax payer money through the so-called faith-based initiative. Seems to me like the fox guarding the henhouse.”

:spray:

[Arkana]

1. Oh dear.

This won't sit well with the "Jeebus saves" people.

[emad]

2. Stop press! Florida Governor prepares world for imminent conversion

to dodgy 10% fee paying cult....

[skypilot]

3. I didn't know that...

...Scientologists were anti-homosexual. I really, REALLY want them to stop sending me shit in the mail NOW.

[pschoeb]

24. Read up on L Ron Hubbard and his son

Unfortunatly Hubbard's son, Quentin was born gay into that hatefull family. He seems to have committed suicide at age 22.

[aeolian]

4. You'd think a "god fearing christian" like ol' Jeb

would shun a "religion" that beleives a great alien lizard-warlord is responsible for all human suffering.

...or maybe he thinks Jesus was a lizard...

...does Jeb shed his skin in Spring?

[htuttle]

5. Hey, give him a break -- maybe he thinks he's possessed by alien ghosts

If you thought that alien ghosts were controlling your thoughts, who ELSE would you think to go to about it? Scientologists are the alien ghost experts!

Xenu Saves!
http://www.xenu.net/

[Dhalgren]

6. Is Scientology considered anti-gay?

I admit that besides a cursory understanding of its origins and basic philosophy, I know very little about it. So do Travolta and Cruise, et al, hold anti-gay views?

[vi5]

8. Well, given the fact that Cruise sues anyone who says he's gay..

..it wouldn't be outlandish to think so.

But I recently read that Beck is a Scientologist and although wacky in his own way, I don't know that he seems anti-gay to me. But who knows.

[spunky]

9. I just heard that about Beck yesterday. My boyfriend was so upset.

He really likes Beck and really dislikes Scientology.

They seem like such a wacky bunch. Apparently Tom Cruise had them set up a tent on the set of one of his recent movies to give the crew massages or something. . .odd. But to each his own I guess.

[elehhhhna]

10. Don't forget Travolta.

[PunkPop]

12. WHAT!!

Beck a Scientologist?!?

Well, I guess it's good for my bank account - one less new CD I'll have to buy.

[noonwitch]

30. I always thought that was a matter of Tom protesting too much

I don't think scientology, whatever faults it may have, discriminates against gays. I do think that you have to fall under a certain IQ level to believe their crap.

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. In the months I was involved with them I never saw any such

discrimination, and one of the people I knew there was openly gay.

And strange as it seems, the people I met were all between normal and highly intelligent. That was one of the things that drew me in. But they guided the use of their intelligence in what I decided was a very irrational direction.

A surprising number of them were escapees from fundamentalist families. I guess they had to believe in something.

[iconoclastNYC]

62. Cruise is not gay!

All the people who saw him in Hustler bars in NYC are lieing. People who say that he was a houseboy on Fire Island are lieing. This is all bullshit. If you believe that it's just your body thetans clouding your mind. Damn you Xenu!

www.xenu.net

[RaleighNCDUer]

70. Is Xenu related to Xena? n/t

[leesa]

7. Too funny! The Bush brothers are practicing religious outreach

since the "media" has discovered that they are whores for the religious right Fundies.

I LOVE how they don't think the whacky religious right is a cult group. Talk about defining cultism!

[Kelvin Mace]

11. Link?

[Minstrel Boy]

13. here it is:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7384923/

[sam sarrha]

14. my friend took their intro class.. they taught him to astral project, then

when he was all excited they tried to get him to sign a $10,000 dollar contract to continue the training so he could go to other planets. he gave them a false address, for obvious reasons, and we were visiting friends in Portland, 2 days later he got a letter from them where we were staying.

i met a guy who had gotten into the upper echelon of the organization.. he said he attended a meeting by someone in the highest inner sanctum, the guy had everyone stand about 15 feet from a large glass window on the 27th floor, he had a girl take a card and take it to the window and lick the back and stick it on the window. then return and he looked at it for a minute then told her to retrieve it.. she walked to it and it was stuck on the outside of the window.

he did another trick where he had everyone take a card then he took a card and and showed it to the first person and said is this your card... Queen of Spades.. yes it was. then he looked at it and showed it to the next person and it was the 3 of diamonds.. the guy turned his card out and it was the 3 of diamonds.. did this all around the group. they asked him how he did it and he turned the card toward them and it changed from one card to another..to another ..to another.

[zalinda]

21. Sorry, but he was pulling your leg

the intro to Scientology has nothing to do with astro projection, nor a $10,000 contract. I was in Scientology for a number of years, and even part of their organization. I never heard anything about ghosts or lizards.

Granted some people when they first get in, get a little weird and say weird things, but the majority of people in it are normal. The people I knew where trying find a sense of purpose with their life, and a way to help others. Have some people gotten taken advantage of, yes, sad to say, but it happens in every religion.

Whatever your feelings about Scientology, it is there to help people with their spiritual growth. They don't ask you to believe everything they teach, but only those things which are true for you. They are not anti-homosexual, never have been from what I know. I am amazed at all the crap that's out there about Scientology, that's not true. Oh, well, just something more for people to hate.

BTW, I left the organization because I moved, no big deal. I got the info I needed and wanted from them and just moved on. For the record, I've never been harassed by them, for leaving.

zalinda

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. That's curious. I was involved for several months, many years

ago, and I was really bothered by the incessant requests for more money to pay for more classes -- and the argument that my hesitance was just my 'reactive thetan' or whatever they called it (it's been many years) that was trying to keep me from being healthy.

It is typical circular cult psychology -- if you believe, things will improve; if you don't believe it is because the (devil, satan, whatever) is interfering, which of course can only be countered by devoting even more time/energy/money in believing. Because this time period was coincidental with the rise of the Moonies and the Jonestown disaster, I trusted my suspicions and left.

A year and a half, two states, and three addresses later, I received a letter from the local Scientology church wondering if I was interested in returning to the church in my new location.

This wasn't a form letter, bulk generated mailing. It was specific to me, at my new address and spoke of rejoining classes and continuing my path to clear.

HOW THE FUCK DID THEY FIND ME?

After that, I am willing to believe just about anything about this deluded pop-psychology science fiction authored cult.

[B3Nut]

28. They have their ways of finding you...

I wrote letters to the editor of the newspaper in the town I used to live in critical of Scientology's inroads into that community. After moving I got a call from one of their operatives. They're pure evil. If you want to kill an hour or 3, head to www.xenu.net - lots of good info. They are masters at brainwashing...it's heartbreaking to see what becomes of the minds of those who get deeply involved. And as for the alien-spirits-causing-problems teachings, one of their high-ranking members admitted to me that this was in fact CoS teaching. And these doctrines aren't revealed to a Scientology adherent until they have passed through many levels of courses and having spent thousands and thousands of dollars. They make the moneygrubbing televangelists on late-night TV look like rank amateurs WRT raking in cash.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[sam sarrha]

32. YOU WILL GET BIG F"n COOKIE TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sam sarrha]

34. you weren't at the level my friend was and you didn't project, so you were

not sought after as much as my friend that DIDN'T lie or make up stories, he was a Highly developed spirit.

[thebigidea]

46. Elron never used terms like that. Either you or your friend are leg-pullin

The OTs think they have the power to heal with a touch of their hands, stop time, and fire 'intention beams,' though.

[Zhade]

57. Oh, for crying out loud...

Google "Operation Clambake", then come back and tell us this isn't a ridiculous, dangerous cult.

[iconoclastNYC]

63. What O.T. level did you get to?

The structure of Scientology does not let you proceed until you spend enough money and have reach the proper level of mind control.

So what O.T. level did you get to? Or are you not allowed to say?

[derbstyron]

15. Sigh

Like I needed ANOTHER reason to despise my Governor.
And he's supposed to be the "smart" one.

Idiot.

:eyes:

[truthisfreedom]

16. i keep waiting for someone to wander through the streets yelling "peanuts!

"popcorn!"

[lavenderdiva]

18. don't forget they seem to like jugglers.... n/t

:sarcasm:

[sam sarrha]

17. I have always considered all considered the Jews, Christians and Moslem's

as simply Cults of Abraham. who was apparently Schizophrenic . The story i heard was that he was the son of an Idol maker in Sumeria. He stoled an Idol of a new god of prosperity from his father and fled. There was as change in the weather and there was a large migration out of that area at the time.

apparently this god of prosperity was a new idea, a god that you could take with you, rather than a local animistic spirit.. and apparently one that had to be catered to to get your share of the prosperity, which explains all the murdering and waring to acquire Empire and the ability to ignore the suffering of Billions caused on the Quest to acquire that prosperity... god gave me the right to my prosperity, their failings and suffering are prof of their lack of faith.

This god said that it was a "Jealous" god, that characteristic actually places it in the Demi-god realm. The "gods" are "Prideful". there is a big difference.. The demi-gods are trouble makers throughout history, jealously is a BITCH to all involved. Imagine a psychopathic jealous husband with the powers of a god.

[Straight Shooter]

20. Very interesting.

Looking at the fundamentalist God as an objective observer, I wonder why a religious group would construct such a mentally unbalanced entity. You receive good in this life, it's because "He" considers you worthy, whether you act appropriately or not. But if you are struck down with misfortune, it is "your" fault, whether you deserve it or not.

Interesting info on the scientology, too. I could never wrap my head around their beliefs, and all the scientologists I've known have, quite frankly, been a bit "weird." (Of course, the true meaning of the word "weird" is "occult.")

[Mist]

29. To nitpick, occult means secret, hidden, esoteric

I don't know how "occult" Scientology is, tho' much of what they do is hidden! I can't stop thinking of them as snake-oil shills.

[sam sarrha]

33. I said "CULT" :a system or community of religious worship and ritual,

especially one focusing on a specific diety or spirit.

[Straight Shooter]

42. Nitpick away, I don't mind.

You're correct, but I was referring to the commonly used meaning of "occult." So many of our words have lost their original meaning. Of course, one could also say that the word "weird" has lost its original meaning :)

I think of Occult as "secret" or "hidden" in the sense of medical terminology, though; for example, "occult blood."

I wish bush were occult, I really really do.

[sam sarrha]

35. they actually have GSR Meter conditioning to make members look "Normal"..

their GSR Meter is made out of tin cans..

[iconoclastNYC]

64. And they charge $3000 for it for something you can make for $300

[madrchsod]

19. the cult of the dead l ron hubbard

has a huge complex in southern florida. bush is going to suck the dead mans cock for every drop of political clout he can. but what the hell, they are a tax exempt "church", so they are ok.

[Karenina]

22. They OWN Clearwater, FL.

[Marnieworld]

23. Scientology is based in Clearwater,FL

He's just whoring for votes is all.

[flyarm]

38. realize this...one of the biggest voting places for the general election

was in downtown clearwater..home of scientology...i know i was a poll watcher there for the early vote..and the guy running that office was a good ole boy who did everything he could to try to intimidate me...he would not let poll watchers anywhere near the machines to over see the machines!!
i live on clearwater beach..i must drive through clearwater every day..the kids that are brainwashed and indocrinated by scientology is mind boggling...i see these kids daily ..they are like zombies...i wave to them and smile and yell hello..there is never a facial emotion on any of them!!
goggle up the deaths of two youths who have died in the guard of scientology in clearwater..when they were not given medical care with the hospital a little over a block away!!

and these are the people who cared about the death of a brain dead woman?? bull crap is all i will tell you!!

fly

[Marnieworld]

40. Bull crap indeed!

I went to a site refuting Scientology recently but I can't remember what it was called. Too bad because it was excellent.

I'm soooooo jealous that you live in Clearwater. I was married on Treasure Island. So pretty there. <sigh>

[EFerrari]

48. With a big campaign contribution and a side of baloney. n/t

[triguy46]

25. for what little the bushies know....

about Christianity, this no great leap.

[daleo]

26. The ruling classes like scientologists, but not scientists.

At least not the scientists who insist the universe is more than 6000 years old. We live in strange times.

[BigBearJohn]

31. I was a member of the group for 10 years. I am now a Buddhist.

Many of the finest people I knew in my life were Scientologists.
I knew several gay Scientologists. As with all religions, I don't
agree with all their tenets, but I do know for a fact that the
people *I* personally knew in Scientology were dedicating their
lives to helping people and work tirelessly to help me when I needed it. Some of the misconceptions and untruths about Scientology published on the net are laughable untrue. I benefitted from my association with the group and then moved on.

[Beaverhausen]

45. Thanks for saying that. I have many friends who are scientologists

they are generally happy and very caring and giving people. They have learned skills to achieve good things in their lives. They never try to get me to join.

[thebigidea]

47. how did they take it when you tried to move on? Not very well, I imagine

[BigBearJohn]

49. They protested my leaving; however they did not try to force me to stay.

I still have many friends who are Scientologists.
As with all religions, they have certain policies
I disagree with. Still, I value what I learned.
As in anything, you have to separate the wheat
from the chaff.

Aside from Buddhism, I have yet to find any
religion that doesn't proselytize.

[Lilith Velkor]

61. Judaism doesn't.

Neither do Satanism, Wicca, Voodoo, Thelema, Asatru, etc.

[iconoclastNYC]

66. It's wasn't a religion until the FDA and the IRS got up Hubbard's ass.

The whole thing is scam. Hubbard said that if you wanted to be rich, start a religion and that's what he did.

[flyarm]

36. i have been telling people over and over that scientology

was behind this whole terri / * crap...i live in clearwater one of the headquarters for scientology...these people wee the who shooting match behind the teri schiavo game of the * es!!
this was a * scientology scam on the schiavo family and the american people!

fly

[THUNDER HANDS]

37. I don't see what's so bad about Scientology

I mean, an entire STATE is run by a cult - Utah, with the Mormans, who (literally) picked their religion out of a hat.

If Mormanism is considered a real religion, why shouldn't scientology?

[iconoclastNYC]

67. Then you don't know enought about it.

Here are few things:

- Mind control techniques used

- Bogus medical equipment used to "audit" you at $250/hr

- Only made into a religion to evade tax and medical laws

- Pyramid structure, O.T. levels, $300,000 to reach "O.T 8"

- Founders and high ranking members convicted of breaking into governmental offices

- Deaths of members who were unlawfully imprisoned and denied medical care

- Underline philopshy drawing from science fiction stories involving aliens revealed only when subject is properly mind-controlled.

- History of using harrasment (using the legal system and illegal tatics), and intimidation to silence critics

- Paramilitary and "corrections" divisions

www.xenu.net

[rocktivity]

39. Go, Jebbie, go, go--keep alienating those moderates!

What a lovely way to follow up the Schiavo Impeachable-Rescue-Attempt-And-Jesus-Freak-Show! Rah rah rah!

:headbang:
rocknation

[K8-EEE]

41. ALL Bush Voters Are Moonie-ized IMO!!

I really believe that! The whole Fox/a.m. radio thing has been using Moonie-esque themes (good/evil, utopia, GWB as big daddy "savior" etc) and repitition, repitition, repitition. Everyone read the unification church stuff on their site -- Moonie loves the Bushes, Falwell, Reagan, hates Carter & Clinton.

They've sold out to a serious AntiChirst contender!

[checks-n-balances]

51. His Daddy GHWB actually has TIES with the Rev. Moon!

Don't have time to post an link, but I'm sure this can be found by googling the 2 names together.

I guess the moonies made campaign donations or something.

Anyway, I think this is BIG NEWS!!

[K8-EEE]

52. SOOOO MANY RW--ER MOONIE TIES!!

Jerry Falwell, GHWB just for STARTERS...and Moon is a VIP doner to countless "conservative think tanks."

When they say "George Soros funds this and that," WHO CARES? Seriously, who the fuck cares about THAT? Isn't Soros just a run of the mill rich guy, not a self-proclaimed messiah with world domination schemes that include taking over this government and then the entire world!!

[checks-n-balances]

55. GREAT talking point when GOP brings up George Soros, or

Barbra Streisand, or even Michael Moore.

Everybody take note!!!

(Typo-edited)

[gauguin57]

43. You all need to read Time's 1991 piece about this cult. They are EVIL!!!!

http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/time.htm

I became obsessed after reading this ... if you don't know much about Scientology, you really need to read this.

My favorite part is the "scientology and me" sidebar near the end of the package. ... After the Time reporter started asking questions, the cult harrassed him and his friends ... they've done much worse to others who try to expose them, according to TV documentaries I've seen. They really are "The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power."

... a snip ...

"By day's end, I later learned, a copy of my personal credit report -- with detailed information about my bank accounts, home mortgage, credit-card payments, home address and Social Security number -- had been illegally retrieved from a national credit bureau called Trans Union. The sham company that received it, "Educational Funding Services" of Los Angeles, gave as its address a mail drop a few blocks from Scientology's headquarters. The owner of the mail drop is a private eye named Fred Wolfson, who admits that an Ingram associate retained him to retrieve credit reports on several individuals. Wolfson says he was told that Scientology's attorneys "had judgments against these people and were trying to collect on them." He says now, "These are vicious people. These are vipers." Ingram, through a lawyer, denies any involvement in the scam.

"During the past five months, private investigators have been contacting acquaintances of mine, ranging from neighbors to a former colleague, to inquire about subjects such as my health (like my credit rating, it's excellent) and whether I've ever had trouble with the IRS (unlike Scientology, I haven't). One neighbor was greeted at dawn outside my Manhattan apartment building by two men who wanted to know whether I lived there. I finally called Cooley to demand that Scientology stop the nonsense. He promised to look into it. ..."

[mimitabby]

50. more good reading

I read a book about Ron Hubbard himself. he was the typical guru wanna be. He surrounded himself with vulnerable young women and did not practice what he preached.

see if you can get your hands on this book: by Russell Miller:

BARE-FACED MESSIAH: THE TRUE STORY OF RON HUBBARD.

[NVMojo]

53. ooooh!!! can't wait til he sings the praises of Kaballah, Hare Krishna,

Children of God, Buddhists, Wiccans, Muslims ....embrace em all, Jebbie!!! Be different than your bro!!!

[NYC]

54. Rattlesnakes?

Many, many years ago, there was an article in The New York Times about Syanon people placing a rattlesnake in the mailbox of an "opponent", in San Francisco, I think. Syanon seems to have been an "adversary" of Scientology.

This was the closest thing I could find:

The American Lawyer, December 1980

SCIENTOLOGY'S WAR AGAINST JUDGES
BY JAMES B. STEWART, JR. On September 5, 1980, as U.S. District Court Judge Charles Richey was recuperating from two pulmonary embolisms and exhaustion, lawyers for the Church of Scientology and the Justice Department gathered before Judge Aubrey Robinson, Richey's successor in the two-year-old conspiracy case against 11 members of the Church of Scientology.

Judge Richey had already convicted and sentenced nine of the original 11 defendants, but the remaining two, recently extradited from England, were about to go on trial. "Particularly from the standpoint of your Honor's feelings about these defendants who are members of the Church of Scientology..." began John Shorter, Jr., a lawyer for one of the defendants. He was interrupted by Judge Robinson. "You want to raise a motion to recuse?" the judge asked. He knew what Shorter's remark foreshadowed, having witnessed the Scientologists campaign to drive Judge Richey off the case. "Is this a fishing expedition?"

Robinson is the fourth D.C. district court judge to preside over the Scientology case and the latest target of the Scientologists' self-proclaimed "attack" litigation strategy. Their strategy amounts to an all-out war against the D.C. district court judges, a war much more sophisticated, better financed and more successful than the bizarre tactics used by some other groups against their courtroom adversaries, such as Synanon's attempt to murder an opposing counsel by putting a rattlesnake in his mailbox.

...But in the past few years, the church has been accused of brainwashing and harassing its members, and it has become embroiled in dozens of lawsuits, including the 1978 criminal conspiracy charges against 11 of its members. Such setbacks have triggered increasingly militant responses, which focused, in the conspiracy case, on the federal judiciary. The Scientologists legal strategy has been to force the recusal of Judges lie at the root of the pending criminal charges against the Scientologists.

From:
http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/amlawyer.htm

[Zhade]

56. "sometimes controversial religion" - yeah, it's called a CULT.

Man, is there ANYONE who doesn't KNOW that, except for the people suckered in?

I hope there's no DUers who subscribe to this cult, because I truly don't give a damn if I offend you. If you're in, GET OUT! It's unhealthy!

[Beaverhausen]

59. Do you know any Scientologists personally?

Just curious.

[Zhade]

60. I have, yes.

I've also known a few who almost got sucked in, and saw the light before it was too late.

Since I live in Los Angeles, and used to live about half a mile from the CoS headquarters on Sunset Blvd (at least, I *think* it's on Sunset, I havedn't lived in Hollywood for years), it's not too surprising that I would bump into people involved in the cult.

Naturally, I'm not saying the rank-and-file Scientologists are bad people. If I thought that, I wouldn't have urged anyone involved to get out as fast as possible. Just like Mormonism, it's a cult that some guy created out of whole cloth to get rich and famous, and it's unhealthy to remain. I know, I'm ex-Mormon, and I'm so glad I escaped.

Funny story: friend and his buddy went to the CoS "testing center" on Hollywood Blvd. His buddy took the test, then told my friend all the answers he put down. My friend put down the exact opposite answer on the test, and was told the exact same thing by the testing officials that they told his buddy - "you need change, we have the answers you've been seeking, and it's only $$$ to find them!"

[BreweryYardRat]

58. Ugh.

Why am I not surprised?

[GOPBasher]

65. Aren't the fundies going to shoot him?

Just wondering. :shrug:

[pissed_American]

68. I worked for a Scientologist.

This is my first post, so I hope I get things right(no pun intended)

One of my first computer jobs was with a small company whose owner was a Scientologist. Nice guy. He did use some unfamiliar terms - OT8(some kind of level?) Dev-T, etc.

He never tried to "convert" anyone in the office, or even really talk about it, unless asked (which I did quite frequently)He was in the upper levels. I do know that.



Religion = In my opinion, nothing more than the world`s biggest gang fight.

[RaleighNCDUer]

69. OT8 is shorthand for (IIRC) Operant (or operating) Thetan, 8th level.

Which is well on the way to Clear. Means he's wiped out the majority of his negative engrams (left-over thoughts and injuries) from previous lives that hold him back in this life. Don't really know how many OT levels there are -- I got the impression it was something like 12. An appropriate number as one of the classic magic numbers (signs of the zodiac, apostles, months, etc.)

Welcome to DU, Pissed

:hi: