Soros Says Kerry's Failings Undermined Campaign Against Bush

[Rose Siding]

Jan. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Billionaire investor George Soros, the biggest financial contributor to the failed effort to defeat President George W. Bush in November's election, said Democratic challenger John Kerry was a flawed candidate.

Soros, chairman of Soros Fund Management LLC, spent $26 million in last year's campaign that he said was undermined by the candidate he supported.

``Kerry did not, actually, offer a credible and coherent alternative,'' Soros, 74, said yesterday in an interview at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. ``That had a lot to do with Bush being re-elected.''....

The Kerry campaign ``tried to emphasize his role as a Vietnam War hero and downplay his role as an anti-Vietnam War hero, which he was,'' said Soros. ``Had he admitted, owned up to it, I think actually the outcome could have been different.''

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=71000001&refer=top_world_news&sid=aqkoN4tLMDv8

[KittyWampus]

1. Soros Hit The Bullseye. Kerry Was A Whistleblower & Failed To Highlight

the admirable quality of what he did speaking up about VN.

[Warpy]

22. And BCCI and Iran Contra

In the former, Kerry did more than anyone else in this country to slow down the funding of Al Qaeda. He set them back years by closing those particular conduits. For those who don't remember, when his Congressional investigation got too close to the Bush family, it was shut down. Kerry did an end run around Congress by presenting his material to a few key state AGs.

Kerry's campaign was torpedoed by the DLC and their perennial group of paid hacks, and where have we heard that before?

It's time to wake up and smell who the real enemies out there are, and they're not limited to the Bush family.

[mazzarro]

25. John Kerry, unfortunately, finally bought into the DLC judgement

of the affairs/opinions of the neo-cons.

[mistertrickster]

77. Yup, he and Edwards had a populist message about not sending

jobs overseas that the DLC (Democratic Losers' Council) toned down to a tiny occasional mention.

This turned the contest into Bush or a SEEMING Bush-lite? Who do you choose if you're an average, badly informed American?

[radio4progressives]

121. Kerry bought into the "Party Line" in the very beginning of his campaign.

[Canuckistanian]

35. Are you saying that BCCI and Iran-Contra funded Al-Qaeda?

What are the links? The Saudi royal family? Iranain mullahs? What?

[Warpy]

43. Check out this story

it gives all the background. The whole story is more complicated, of course, because BCCI had tentacles into most western governments, and especially into the CIA.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.sirota.html

[katinmn]

2. He's got a point

[davhill]

3. Soros says what a lot of us have been silently thinking

[The Zanti Regent]

40. I still believe Kerry deliberately threw the election to Bush.

Kerry voted to send my only child to die in Iraq. Everytime Bush wanted something, his Bonesman pal gave it to him. Bartcop is right, whenever Bush played the tune, Kerry Liberman, Edwards and Bidet do the dance.

All I got out of this was a dead son, my only child.

My boy didn't die for freedom, he died so Israel could steal Iran's water and oil.

[AuntiBush]

57. I am so sorry...

Reading your words... well, I lost my husband in a tragic, unexpected accident, and I do not have any children. One can only try to imagine how you feel, yet I can not and feel so bad for you.

I hope the bastards, all of them that created this war based on lies pays in the end.

Keep the faith, though it's hard. Remember, "every damn dog has it's day." Again, sorry for your loss. Though no consolation and for whatever it's worth, I extend my sincere condolences.

[mistertrickster]

80. Yes, that's true, and it takes a lot of courage to face the truth of that

as you have done.

Your son did the honorable thing, he died with honor, he did his duty. Every true patriot respects that and feels the pain of loss of our valiant country man.

*****

Here's a telling passage from Shakespeare's "Henry the Fifth."

King Henry goes among the men the night before the big battle of Agincourt. They speak freely about their feelings, for the King is disguised as an ordinary soldier.

Bates: I would he (the King) were here alone . . . (then) a many poor men's lives (would be) saved.

K. Hen: . . . Methinks, I could not die any where so contented, as in the king's company; his cause being just and his quarrel honorable.

Williams: That's more than we know.

Bates: Or more than we should seek after, for we know enough, if we know we are the king's subjects: if his cause be wrong, our obedience to the king wipes the crime of it out of us.

Will: But if the cause be not good, then the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make. . . . (These men will rise up on judgement day to face him again.) Now if these men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the king that led them to it.

[cliss]

88. Zanti, I'm so sorry.

I'm sorry for the loss of your son. He fought bravely, I'm sure, for what he knew was the real reason for going. Whether the people in Washington realize it or not, people have their own ideals and they live their lives according to them.

Dr. Raymond Moody, author of 'Life after Life', (a book about Near Death Experiences; or of thousands of people who were clinically dead by were resuscitated for one reason or another) found that of the many details given by people whom he questioned nine came up most frequently, and of these most people mentioned a few. They are: a sense of being dead; feelings of peace and peacefulness; an out-of-body experience; travelling down a tunnel; seeing people of light; being greeted by a particular being of light; having a life review; and a reluctance to return.

Almost all the people that he interviewed said they did not want to return after their 'death'. They felt surrounded by complete love, and a sense of well-being.

I'm sure he has gone to a better place.

[Sterling]

112. I agree.

I knew before the primary he was corrupt and compromised yet I towed the line and voted for him anyway. It was a learning experience.

[MinneapolisMatt]

144. Zanti...

I'm so sorry. God bless you.

[aikido15]

149. I'm sorry Zanti...

really, I am. No one can begin to imagine what you are going through that hasn't been through it.

You are right. Democrats are Republicans in sheep's clothing. I wish more people would realize that, maybe we could look to a party that is against war or anything else that hurts it's people.

[Vidar]

168. Got that right. I don't like to bash, but...

[KissMeKate]

4. it was admirabl;e to tell the truth about the war in Vietnam.

He should have claimed that with as much pride as he claimed his war record.

[Nothing Without Hope]

16. I agree. He campaigned as an out-of-date war hero

when he had so much more to offer.

I'm not wise enough myself to call him flawed, but his campaign certainly was and I also believe his early capitulation was.

[KissMeKate]

28. His Campaign was ridiculous.

I spent that season waiting for him to stand up, show some balls, and everytime I thought he showed some life, he would come out with a "I would have invaded Iraq too" sort of statement. Four times, I was almost ready to believe he would win- but he made me cringe more thyan he made me cheer. I was almost ready to give him money. He needed coaching for public speaking, at the very least- He needed hard core coaching. The campaign was an embarassment.

[Borgnine]

38. I couldn't say it better myself.

For all his faults, I like Kerry. But I had to really force myself to become excited about his campaign, and in the end, it was a still more of a "he's not Bush" sentiment than "I love Kerry." He never really got the juices flowing like Dean, Clark, or even Sharpton and Kucinich did.

[Rockerdem]

45. So, if he had, who else would have he attracted????

To be honest, I dont think that there was a huge reservoir of anti-war voters waiting for Kerry to sound like he did in the early 70s. I think that he failed to persuade middle age women that he would have been just as strong against terrorism as AWOL was. Dont get me wrong, he WOULD have been. But the polls show that he lost women that past Democrat presidents got. The ballgame in a nutshell.

[KissMeKate]

52. My vote, for one.

see, I didnt bother to vote for John Kerry.

People didnt believe in Kerry. He was completely uninspiring. He could have got more people to show up at the polls. Lots of people just didnt bother to show up for him, no matter how hounded they were by ACT and Move On.

[merh]

58. So we get to point our finger at you for why we are stuck with

the evil admin that is destroying our nation? You share the responsibility. No vote for Kerry was a vote for the weed.

Talk about balls, to admit that YOU didn't care enough about our nation to vote AGAINST the evil that is ruining it and killing hundreds of thousands, that takes balls. Talk about sheer stupidity, to blame the candidate for not "inspiring you". What did you do to find out about the candidate, do you know about his policies, his record and his 30 year record of service to the nation or were you just waiting for your inspiration via the corporate media whores?

I will find you post that says it all about folks who DID NOT VOTE BECAUSE KERRY DIDN'T INSPIRE ME. Let me find it for you.

From a soldier: WE THE PEOPLE share the responsibility for what is happening to our nation!

LynnTheDem
24. (Gary here again)
I can tell you who I blame. I don't blame the US government. Politicians lie. They all do. All the time. We all know this and it's a standard well-known joke; how do you know a politician is lying? His lips are moving.

America was founded on BY THE PEOPLE. It's the people's duty to monitor everything the government does. If we want to sit back and let the government do whatever they want, we are a dictatorship not a democracy.

I blame the citizens of America. All those, right and left, who supported this invasion.

I'm supposed to die defending Americans, but Americans couldn't be bothered to ask questions of a bunch of politicians. Couldn't be bothered to make sure my men had enough rifles. Or body armor. Or even bullets. We ran out of rifles, had to use confiscated Iraqi AK-47s. And when this made headline news we were ordered not to use them any more; it "didn't look good". Sure we'll just use sticks no problem.

Because many of my fellow Americans couldn't even be bothered to fully and openly debate and discuss, in an adult manner, the facts before launching an invasion, or give the UN the 90 days to finish their weapons inspections. They armchair warmongered and told everyone else to just shut up.

They didn't give one shit about my life and the lives of my fellow soldiers. They still don't.

Moore asked "will they ever forgive us".

Me? No. Never.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3017912

[KissMeKate]

59. point fingers all you want. Im not ashamed of not voting for Kerry.

I didnt vote for him, I still wont vote for him in 2008- alot of voters didnt bother to vote for Kerry.

[Rockerdem]

63. Unlike 2000, Kerry did better with the base

Kerry attracted most of the Naderites and Greens. But even the hardheaded holdouts wouldnt have made up the difference. Where Kerry failed was with women, period. He underachieved by past standards. And by reliving his anti-war 70s, he would have made it worse, most likely.

[bvar22]

66. Kerry did not "attract" Greens and Independents.

Believe me when I tell you that the "GREENS" were NOT ATTRACTED to Kerry. Repulsion to the Republicans is what got Kerry the Green vote.

Adding insult to injury, the DLC used the poor performance of Green Candidates to gloat over the demise of the Green Party. Most of the Greens I know feel like they wasted their vote on Kerry! The DLC would be wise not to count on these votes EVER AGAIN!

[Rockerdem]

83. OK, but youre engaged in semantic backflips

My point: Kerry got more Green votes than Gore. Kerry got fewer middle class women votes than Gore. While the former helped, the latter killed him.

[bvar22]

94. semantics?

the difference between "attracting" voters and "taking them for granted and offering them nothing" is merely semantics?

not in my world.

What killed JKerry was spending $Millions and tailoring an ambiguous centrist message to compete for 2 or 3percent of the mushy moderate middle vote instead of Standing Loudly and Proudly for traditional Democratic Party values. (Labor, Unions, Fair Wages for Honest Work, Individual Freedoms, CommonWealth, Environmental Protections, Support for those Suffering Hard Times, Protection for the Little Guy, No Stupid Wars, Good Jobs at Home for Americans)

In JKerry's defense, I believe he was forced to run on a Platform that was created by Pro-Corporate interests, and he was never let off the lease held by the Powers that have bought the Democratic Party leadership(DLC).

[Sydnie]

97. Not according to the exit polls

Remember? They OVERSAMPLED women who voted for Kerry.

Kerry got Green votes because they realized that to have a voice at all they had to participate within the system that existed. Sort of like respecting authority before they can challenge it... so to speak. Kerry was well supported by Greens because of his stance on the environment. Lets face it, it was not as agressive as some others but it was not as bad as what we have been facing for the last 4 years either.

Kerry has been strong on the environment. Why they didn't make more noise with that fact is a mystery to me.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KissMeKate]

68. I disagree.

I think it would have destroyed the perception that he was only taking positions by political calculation.

It would have reinforced a perception that he had "heart", In my opinion.

[merh]

64. You share the same responsibility that you try to place on

Kerry - not voting for Kerry was just as good as casting your vote for the weed, therefore, you are as responsible as the weed!

That you can proudly profess that you didn't vote for Kerry and don't feel any remorse is sad, if not terribly sick.

[KissMeKate]

69. your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

I wont vote for Kerry in 2008, either. Not if he doesnt change, and in a fundamental way.

[merh]

104. Not just my opinion, many share it

why don't you post a thread with a poll asking how many share my belief that your failure to vote for the only candidate that could bet the weed makes you just as guilty as any one who voted for the weed, as well as the weed himself.

I don't care what you do in 2008

[KissMeKate]

107. Even so, I stand by my actions.

Kerry lost because not enough people voted for him. I am one of them- Im fine with that, and I really dont care how many people share your belief- about anything.

I didnt vote for Kerry, and I dont care what you think about that.

[bunny planet]

163. the neo-cons thank you for all your help.

:grr:

[tabasco]

151. You see what we're up against?

Someone who is proud to have refused to help oust the criminal corporate cabal, because the alternate candidate was not perfect.

The warmongers certainly appreciate the non-votes.

[merh]

154. This exchange had me so upset, I couldn't see straight!

To think that someone will proudly admit to having a part in getting the bastard re-elected. :cry: Not only to proudly post it, but to rub my nose in it and to hell with what the non-vote meant. It is criminal! :argh: :mad: It makes my blood boil still.

[ProfessorGAC]

155. Thinking The Exact Same Thing, merh

My first thought was "My, you must be SO proud." That's just plain idiotic to brag about being complicit in the things one claims to philosophically oppose.

My blood's boiling too! It's pretty galling, is it not?
The Professor

[merh]

157. It's pretty pathetic!

She wasn't inspired - God help us that people want to be inspired. Should he have come down from a hill top with a stone tablet? Maybe parted the Hudson Bay? Inspired.

It is inspiring enough to know that he is not the weed, but beside from that I bothered to research the man's record and found him very inspiring. I don't wait for the MSM to tell me what to think and who should inspire me. I am a grown up with a mind of my own.

Galling, I have yet to find just the right word for it, but galling is appropriate. I think criminal is the best word. :nuke: Wonder how she will feel when we shock & awe Iran? :shrug: Criminal! :mad:

[ProfessorGAC]

158. The Conservative Mantra, No?

They want a LEADER! I want an administrator with vision. I don't want to be inspired by anything other than confidence that he or she will do an admirable job of defending the Constitution. I will find my own sources of inspiration and not look to a politician for it.

Repubs who vote against their own best interest are looking for STRONG LEADERSHIP. Apparently, apathetic Dems who don't vote at all also want a LEADER! Sickening.
The Professor

[bvar22]

159. Both Presidential Candidates...

..ran as Warmongers.
What's the diff???
:shrug:

[Sydnie]

96. Then KissMeKate

as my father would say "you have lost forever your legitimate right to complain" ... about Kerry or the outcome of this election.

YOU were part of the problem and not the solution .... as is your post above.

Perhaps his message just went over your head? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, just to be clear.

[KissMeKate]

108. youre wrong. Its called the first amendment.

Sorry, just because I didnt vote the way you wanted me to, doesnt mean I cant say my piece.

Im here, and I will continue to post my opinion- just like anyone else here.

I am one of millions of people who didnt find Kerry inspiring enough to vote for. Im ok with that.

[Sydnie]

110. I didn't say you had lost your right to speak at all

just your right to expect anyone to take what you say with anything but a large grain of salt.

Part of the problem or part of the solution. It's fairly elementary actually.

You post about how proud you are that you didn't vote in the primaries and that you didn't vote in the general election for the party with the best chance to dethrone the blivet**. Yeah, that would make me listen to your complaints alright.

Bloviate about something that you participated in rather than something you didn't... then I will give you your due.

Til then.... pffft!

[KissMeKate]

116. I would hope people take what ANYONE says with a grain of salt!

I hope no one here is so openminded their brains fall out.


"art of the problem or part of the solution" is a false dichotomy presented by people who want you to do what they want. They want you to choose *their solution*. I dont accept the premise of your false choice. There is room in our country for divergent opinions. I dont accept that your "solution" is the right one.

Youre misportraying my post- you say I post about "how proud" I am- I never used that language- that is an assumption you make, and a false one.

As far as you listening to me, well, thats your choice- I dont need you in particular to listen, or agree with my "complaints".

I have my due- Im doing just fine, thanks.

[Sydnie]

122. Obviously you are proud of the fact that you didn't vote

you repeated it often enough to make sure we all got that message.

I didn't say you had to follow my party line -- you are projecting.

I just said -- part of the problem or part of the solution.

You assumed that I meant you were one or the other. Seems you are projecting that negative upon yourself.

I am not misportraying anything. I am merely calling it as I see it.

[KissMeKate]

124. "projecting" indeed.

I am neither proud nor ashamed. I struggled with the decision. Neither word would correctly characterise my feelings about my choice. Nevertheless, I would make the same choice again, given the same circumstances.

[Rose Siding]

138. Just fine, huh?

Pleased with the cuts in vet bennies, are you? Just fine with the bodies blown to bits for lack of armor? All down with the direction of the health care industry, right?

You make a mockery of the fine people who sacrificed their own specific preferences for the greater good.

Reading what you wrote, I'm ashamed for you. The "dichotemy" is too broad. It doesn't infer enough responsibility.

[KissMeKate]

140. thats cute.

trying to shame me for not voting the way you wanted me to vote. guess what? millions of people felt the SAME way. ?Kerry didnt inspire THEM enough to vote for him, either.

as far as the rest- well, if you need to assume I am the boogeyman, thats fine with me, too.

Hey look over there! its me! on the grassy knoll!

[bvar22]

65. He might have attracted some of the 50Million Americans...

...who don't bother to vote because "No one speaks for them!!"

[KissMeKate]

70. exactly. 50 million didnt bother to vote at all.

eom

[ikojo]

91. Maybe there wasn't a reservoir of anti war voters but

there were many people who voted for Bush (and continue voting Republican) because although they are not happy with his policies they believe he says what he means and will follow through.

These same people think the Dems put their fingers out to see which way the wind is blowing and tailor their message accordingly. Many people, including this one who voted for Kerry for the sole reason he was NOT Bush, believe that the Dems don't stand for anything. Sure they dust off the few remaining union members (as if all workers are in a union, which is not true for almost 90% of American workers) and suddenly find black churches as if they support black people the previous three years, but what do they do once they are in office? They hob knob with the same corporate fat cats as the pugs. They want our "grass roots" dollars at election time but after the election they expect us to go back inside while they go about being unaccountable and governing from the right.

Remember the pugs started as an alternative party. There is an alternative to complacent Dems with no spine to challenge the conservative oligarchy and that is the Greens. If you can't stand being involved with the Greens then at least get involved with the progressive Democratic Alliance.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

103. I'm a middle-aged women, and most of the middle-aged women I know

hate Bush and were out there marching against the Iraq War, not simpering about how Bushboy was going to protect us from the Big Bad Tewwowists.

Sad to say, it was the thirtyish suburban soccer moms, who know more about TV than about the world. who voted for Bush.

[BrendaStarr]

169. Sure would be nice

To get a link to said polls.

[Sydnie]

99. Good then KissMeKate

Throw your hat into the ring and we'll see how well you do.

Put your money where YOUR mouth is ... step up to the plate and run for something, anything and see if you can show us how to do it.

Coach us Kate. I can't wait!

[KissMeKate]

115. Sydnie, I serve my community just fine.

So I'll just leave it at this- I am not accountable to strangers about whether I run for office, or serve my community in a different way.

If I consider changing my two jobs- (being a military wife and a nurse) and becoming a politician, I'll be sure to notify you.

[ProfessorGAC]

156. Seems A Fairly Convenient Response

Proud of not participating (and don't say you're not proud of it, as posting it here is evidence of the contrary), and then claiming you owe nobody on a message board anything. YOU posted your diatribe first. What did you expect, some of Li'l Georgie's flowers and kisses?

Now, you claim to be doing enough for the community, so you don't need to put your money where your mouth is. Quite convenient to never have to do anything but criticize others, no?
The Professor

[RobinA]

171. I Think People Here

underestimate the negativity with which red staters of all states look at protesting ANY war. I WISH John Kerry could have spoken proudly about his anti-Vietnam activities, but the fact remains that when you look around you hear from an awful lot of people who believe that there should be NO criticism of any war while it is being fought.

I don't think it's right, but it may be the reality. I know Vietnam vets who will tell you Kerry is a liar about Vietnam atrocities. A guy's gotta campaign in the world as it exists, not as we wish it to be.

[2Design]

5. exactly

[Racenut20]

6. After watching him this morning on MTP

It only reiterated my feelings that I only voted for him because Shrub/PorkChop were on the other ticket..... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DNC, change the primary rules so we don't get another Kerry/Duckaus(sp) showed down our throat by a few Iowans and New Hampshireites again....... Please !!!!!!!

[chaumont58]

23. I think you are right on, but...

I'm afraid it will be hard to change the order of primaries. Iowa and New Hampshire have much economic interest in being the first two. Having said that, let me state that I live in California and it galls me that I have no say in who will be the nominee. This is a Democratic state, in spite of the repuke governor, but we might as well be on the dark side of the moon, as far as presidential primaries go.

[KissMeKate]

31. Illinois had no say, either.

I didnt even bother to vote in the primaries. Other people "dated Dean, Married Kerry" and therefor arranged MY "marriage". I know lots of people who didnt bother to vote in the primary.

The news made a big deal about how high the turnout was in Iowa and New Hampshire- but had nary a peep about the turnout after our choices had been eliminated. I have a feeling turnout dropped precipitously.

[mistertrickster]

82. Iowans seemed to just want us to go away when I was there campaigning

for Dean. If they don't want the attention, why do they demand to be first.

We need primaries in at least six areas of the country on the SAME DAY.

And no effing caucuses, where people have to tie up two hours haranguing each other.

[KissMeKate]

117. caucuses dont make sense to me.

I dont know why it cant be a "one man, one vote" thing. Anything else seems- well, undemocratic.

[CoffeeCat]

139. I'm from Iowa...

...and I agree with you, partially.

I don't think the process should be one state at a time. I agree that more states should have primaries on the same day.

The ideal situation would be one state from each major region, which would provide a good cross section of America.

I do like that Iowa is first. Face it...what politician would bother with What Cheer, Iowa (yes, that's a real name of a town), if Iowa wasn't first? However, I don't think any state should be first because no one state should have that much power.

Interesting---your experience with Iowa voters. They weren't receptive? I caucused for Dean. In fact, I was the only Dean supporter at my voting precinct, and I stood alone for Dean, so my caucus vote didn't count.

Generally, Dean didn't fare well in Iowa because his style (which I loved) didn't mesh with Iowans as well as Kerry and Edwards did.

So I guess we're back to your original point--which is that one state shouldn't be first--and what happened in Iowa makes a good case for that point. :)

[mistertrickster]

145. Iowans were friendly enough--they just weren't answering their door or

their phones half the time, heh.

A lot of folks would open the door, see it was us campaigning and just motion us away. Not most but some.

[kostya]

7. Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it? n/t

[bvar22]

67. Hindsight?

Check the DU Archives from the Primaries.

[w4rma]

8. Yeah, yeah. Hindsight is 20/20 and we all could have done more, been

closer to perfect. But, we're human, and so is Sen. Kerry. Kerry did his best, but WE need to make it easier for OUR candidates to win. The hurdle is too high, right now.

[barb162]

24. Kerry's campaign people were asleep at the wheel when the swifties

and a bunch of other issues came up. They needed to take lessons from Rove. And it wasn't 20/20 hindsight for many people on DU as I amd many others watched the Kerry campaign self-destruct. Many people said there was a need for immediate offensive action and the Kerry campaign just kept taking this defensive posture and losing points week after week after week.

[w4rma]

46. Now *that* is very valid criticism. They ignored us on that. (nt)

[Patchuli]

131. I agree that Kerry was given BAD advice

and unfortunately, he listened to the DLC and the Clinton aides. You'll
notice too how 'center' the Clintons are these days. Yuck...

I also was mad that the Kerry Campaign didn't slap the heck out of those
lying liar 'swifties' who couldn't even back up with documentation any
of their assertions. On the other hand, Kerry had official Navy
documentation to back him up. Those guys were found to be major liars
and backed by Bush's slick Texas oil buddies, but the damage had already
been done to the simple-minded voters.

One more point though? All this arguing about the voters wouldn't have
changed a thing as long as black boxes were used for voting.

Because I still believe that Kerry DID win. I also think we'd better
put some energy into outlawing electronic voting. I am for PAPER BALLOTS, hand-counted.

I am also for no election officials with partisan
ties!

[barb162]

160. I think Kerry won too and agree on only paper ballots. But Kerry

should have won by a few million or several million votes.

When the campaign descended into how deep was Kerry's wound on his butt it was so totally out of control. I would have been saying things like The GOP is worried about Kerry's war wounds when you guys don't even know where your candidate was in 1972. Was he AWOL? ANd SAY IT: Was he A-W-O-L that year? That's not an accusation, just a loaded question. Rove would have done that; switch the subject and ATTACK. Just like he won the TX gov. race against Ann Richards by talking about/ questioning how much she was drinking. He didn't worry about bushboy's drinking and drug use, just Ann Richard's drinking).

It's all so simple, you just have to get down and dirty, fling a little mud because with Bush there was plenty to throw around; Bush gave the dems a lot of ammo and the Dems never used it.

[bvar22]

161. Kerry didn't "listen to" the DLC,

Kerry wasn't given "bad advice"!

Kerry was and is a DLC spokesman.

He sold his soul for DLC Corporate backing during the Primaries,
and agreed to run on the DLC Platform!

[PresidentObama]

9. Why Should I believe Soros?

Kerry made plenty of mistakes in this election, but so did Gore in 2000. Kerry was NOT a flawed candidate. Soros would have said that if Dean was nominated, and lost. Kerry did a fine job, and I never really liked or trusted George Soros so I don't really care what he has to say.

[w4rma]

10. Ridiculous. Humans have flaws. There are no unflawed candidates. (nt)

[sundancekid]

14. sour grapes on soros isn't going to advance OUR cause, just yours

[mike_c]

18. Kerry and Gore were both flawed....

Neither offered real alternatives to Bush's rhetoric and policies. Gore got religion after his "loss" to Bush in 2000-- during the campaign he was just as intent as Kerry to not be viewed as liberal, or to offer tangible alternatives-- real differences-- that voters could get excited about. That's the real reason that Ralph Nader drew liberal democratic party and green votes in 2000.

As long as dem party stalwarts refuse to face this, they'll continue to either lose elections, or win them only when the voters are exhausted by repig policies. We need a vigorous and unabashedly left wing alternative in this country-- one with real proposals for domestic and foreign policy changes.

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. And bush** is the most flawed of all three, nice of the

Corporate controlled and owned "media" to point out just how FLAWED bush** was, is and will continue to be. As some have said here with regard to Soro's critique of Kerry and his campaign, hindsight is 20/20.

[BuelahWitch]

42. PBS' "The Choice" that ran right before the election

pointed out alot of Bush's flaws. Anyone with any sense watching that documentary would understand which one was fit to govern and who should be a baseball commissioner. Either alot of voters don't watch PBS or the election was stolen....

[Just Me]

48. Bush isn't merely "flawed". He & his cabal are corrupt and evil.

Although I greatly admire Soros, I greatly admire Kerry as well.

Even a flawless candidate (as if that is even possible) would not have "won" this election without a more united and effective communication machine.

In my opinion, the greatest failure has been a hesitation to reveal the neoCONs' pattern of deceptive practices against the American people,...a pattern so vulgar and reprehensible that any average person would be outraged. The stupid DNC old-school campaign tactics simply do NOT work against a regime as corrupt and manipulative as the one we face today.

[pokercat999]

54. without a more united and effective communication machine.

Bullshit...Kerry just had to say loud and often (maybe 10-20 times a day) these exact words. The Swift Boat boys are simply "goddamn liars" if *ush doesn't come out and directly condemn them then he is a "goddamn coward and liar".

At least I would look at him like he was a "man" and not some eunuch, wimp, which is how most of America including Democrats saw him.

[Just Me]

73. I am a committed anti-neoCON advocate. Calling my position "bullshit"

,...in no way deters my commitment to revealing the neoCONs' deceptive propaganda machine.

Kerry is not evil.

The neoCONs are doing many evil acts against our people, our constitution, our democracy and the rest of the world.

I stand by my position that a more united and effective communication machine which exposed these bastards for what they are would have been an effective tool to defeat them. I still believe that position to be true today and in the future.

[pokercat999]

93. We may be saying the same thing in different ways

My way is take off the gloves and put on the brass knuckles, that's what the repugs have done since Newt and look where it's got them.

nice guys don't win elections anymore.....if they ever did. we don't have to govern like them, just campaign like them.

So you may understand me a little, I'm for splitting the US into 2 or more countries. I think this big complex democracy is no longer sustainable in it's current form.

[sacxtra]

167. from a (L) point of view

heh. I have to laugh, I'm in a weird position.

I am currently libertarian.

Yet, I voted for Kerry, Matsui.

I currently support Barbara Boxer.

And Dean, and I am very confused why one of the other presidential candidates have not made the biggest stink in history. When Badnarick got thrown in jail with the Green's there should have been "hell to pay."

Is it as simple as they just do not understand electronics and coding?

I known electronics and coding since 1983. (young I know)

However, EVEN I didn't understand that in 2000 this is what was going on.

So could it be THIS SIMPLE?

For all they have to do is look at all the web defacements on websites. Attrition.org had some .gov's iirc. Okay Okay, they're all tcpip. And were talking Zmodem, serial ports etc. You don't need look any farther since, BBS's had the same problem, Computers and Networks have ALWAYS had this problem. So maybe get the message out, that ...

If anything, all this expensive ass electronic crap should have never been used in the first place, it's sits there asking us all to tamper, and hack on it. What's the word I am looking for?

Electronic warfare?
IT warfare?
Software warfare?

(Cough...Getting sleepy)

on our election system by it's very existance, who could resist the ultimate power and the fine fruits?

**You can** if you are still reading and following me.



Tonight...
Other currently registered democrats (like everybody I know damn near), I've been told I should just wait before I re-apply to swich parties again. To watch. OTOH If the electronics AREN'T removed before I vote again, it won't matter.

So, please amongst the 'effective communications' that go around, leave a clearly defined roadmap for libertarians and ALL other 3rd parties to participate, and take ACTION to get rid of the damned electronics, then maybe, JUST MAYBE the major parties will go through another change.

To be honest I am really lost. How long till everything I was taught in school goes out the window?

Good folks,
We are ALL lost for one reason or another. In my case, it was because I KNEW something was wrong about four years or so back, I was democrat before that. Not all libertarians are wacked. Right now some of them call me wacked. Oh well. Ignore my plea at your own peril. (disclaimer: not a threat)

Hell I just want common freaking sense here. I grew up knowing what the hell is right and wrong. Right now We (and I use that term figuratively to describe one common goal of fixing the broken election system.) are flying blind. I still here folks even suggesting that electronics will be okay with paper trail, I have to ask them, why are you in such a hurry? Got something to hide? Like some invisible electronic vote packets?

Problem is the whole damn thing is broken down at each local polling/precint level. Each of us "lost" ones are really pissed!

Myself, I am ex-vetran and I although I don't want to die, I am not scared to die for speaking out against this fucking evil crap.


I support Dean. (hey I managed to say that twice!)


Yet with no open primary, and since I can't tell if the vote from the scanners we have in Sacramento actually counted votes, I can't support anyone.

[mike_c]

11. spot on....

When will the Democratic Party stop shooting itself in the foot by nominating weak candidates who offer little more than a redefinition of the repig candidate's positions? It's time for something different from flavor A or flavor B, both of which taste a lot like grease stains in the middle of the road.

[Coastie for Truth]

13. Henry Wallace did not get elected in 1948

and Eugene McCarthy could not have been elected in 1968

[Seabiscuit]

61. Sorry, but I was there in 1968 working on Eugene McCarthy's campaign

and McCarthy *would* have been elected had RFK not entered the race and attracted people like myself to RFK's campaign. As a result, McCarthy bowed out for the good of the party and supported RFK. And RFK would have won too if he hadn't been assassinated. That left Humphrey, who lost because he was too "tied" to Johnson's Vietnam war (losing the anti-war vote), and couldn't distinguish himself from Nixon on that illegal war any more than Kerry distinguished himself from Shrub's illegal Iraq war. Had Humphrey not been tainted by being Johnson's publicly supportive VP, and had campaigned with just his stellar civil rights record and an anti-war stance, he would have trounced Nixon.

[newblewtoo]

62. What about...

George Wallace and Curtis Lemay in the '68 election? They also ran that year if I remember correctly.

[Seabiscuit]

78. Wallace and LeMay never had a chance.

Wallace was also shot that year, although not fatally.

(On edit: sorry - Wallace was shot in 1972, when Nixon was running against McGovern, not 1968. The shooting effectively took Wallace out of that race, and his supporters tended to flock to Nixon)

LeMay never gained any real support. Although Wallace did gain some measurable support, it was at the expense of Nixon, and not the Democrats. Wallace never posed any real threat in 1968, but did erode *some* of Nixon's support.

My point was that the anti-war candidates, first McCarthy, then RFK, were wiping the floor with Nixon's butt in the polls and the early primaries. McCarthy swept New Hampshire, which triggered RFK's entry into the race. Once RFK took over the reigns and won handily in California, the same bastards that killed JFK killed him, because they knew he'd be the next President. Humphrey, with his refusal to run against Johnson's Vietnam policies even made Nixon appear almost "anti-war" by comparison. All Nixon had to do was say he had a "secret plan to end the war in Vietnam". Which was more than Humphrey was willing to do.

[newblewtoo]

84. Did it cost Humphrey

I guess I am curious ( and off topic ) do you feel they cost Humphrey southern votes, a 'backlash' if you will? RFK would have swept the south. IMHO

[Seabiscuit]

143. They probably did have a negative effect on Humphrey, and yes,

I think RFK would have done well in the south against Nixon as well.

[Coastie for Truth]

86. Nixon's "Secret Plan" -as they say in NYC "Kish Mer Tuchus"

(Not you - his "secret plan") Why do you they called him "Trickie Dickie" and asked "Would you buy a used car from this man?"

Like his California Senate Campaign against Helen Douglas :puke:

I am a confirmed, born again "Nixon Hater" - I just dislike Bush, but I hate Nixon.

[eridani]

165. Hoo, boy. Other way around for me

Sure Dickie was oily, but I'm just trying to visualize the Sociopath in Chief enacting the Enviromental Protection Agency, OSHA, advocating universal health care and raising the minimum wage. Also, he didn't deliberately encourage Rapture whackjobs as a part of his base. Racism was quite bad enough, though.

[Coastie for Truth]

85. Sorry but I was court martialed for working Humphrey's campaign

(Art 88, Hatch Act, etc) for working on the campaign during "authorized liberty" while in civilian clothes, off base. (Charges were dismissed when I filed an Article 138 against my arse hole commanding officer) ;-)

So, I am a wee bit pissed at dilettantes who felt that Humphrey wasn't pure enough --- and gave the election to Nixon.

I didn't like the war either - had personal friends killed, had a cousin (who was like an older brother to me) killed; was a Casualty Assistance Call Officer, and a Casualty Assistance Case Officer --- I paid my dues

[Seabiscuit]

148. Since you're apprently still licking your war wounds, I'll let you remain

blissfully confused.

[Coastie for Truth]

162. Not "Licking My Wounds"

but "wearing my medals proudly" (for having beaten the system).

[Lydia Leftcoast]

105. People forget that Humphrey was the CENTRIST candidate in 1968

not the left, which was represented by McCarthy and RFK.

[Seabiscuit]

147. I didn't forget. That was my point exactly.

Moving to the center has never worked for Dems running for national office.

[mazzarro]

33. The democratic party, as far as I am concerned, is in the tight

grip of the DLC/DNC stalwarts that are more interested in their own self preservation and welfare than that of the party's rank-and-file. The leadership of the party is clearly beholden to the big corporations since that is the source of big donations. They will attempt to persuade us that this is not the case and if they succeed, they will go back to what they have always done - find the most unrattling candidate they can to run as the party's candidate for the presidency in 2008, which we will then lose again and we will repeat this whole b**sh*t again. Unless we force a change in the party's leadership and wrest control from the DLC.

[Coastie for Truth]

12. Hit the Nial On The Head

...Kerry should have campaigned on

"I was there,

I participated,

I had my epiphany - my "Road To Damascus" - when I saw the war first hand

I learned (at Hard Knocks State Univ) that the war was wrong

and, I came out swinging against it"


Unlike the Swifties for the Truth -- for whom it was their one, defining, adrenaline high, macho event

Unlike Bush who never makes a mistake

[ginnyinWI]

19. as an anti war candidate

I don't think Kerry would have even won the primaries, let alone the general election.

Remember, it was very very close--he could easily have won it (or did and they stole votes)--and in that case EVERYONE would be congratulating the campaign on a wonderful job.

Do you realize he won the swing states by 2%, as it is? That without the south it would have been a huge landslide? That he made Bush's "win" the smallest for an incumbent in U.S. history?

He isn't an anti-war candidate, anyway--but he is anti-stupid-war!

[CTLawGuy]

128. funny

he voted for our current stupid war..

[ginnyinWI]

141. nope n/t

[Festivito]

51. Whoa! TOO CLEAR! Kerry adds 20 words in middle of each idea.

On Meet the Press today he explained Swift Boat Vets lies so well I thought he agreed with them.

In a time-crunched America, Kerry lacks succint clarity.

[Sydnie]

95. Perhaps it's time to bring some intellect back to the table then

Kerry did just that. Don't fault him for being able to use the proper words for the proper situations. Raise the bar on yourself and those around you instead. Challenge THEM to THINK. It's not time challenges that kept people from understanding, it's lack of skill in basic comprehension on the part of the general public.

Kerry was very clear IF you retained the ablility to recognize the difference between the proverbial hole in the ground and that other hole we all speak of so often.

[Festivito]

123. Maybe, then we should ditch democracy...

...if the general public lacks basic comprehension. But, I don't think so.

I think they lack information, clear concise information. Not information that could be satirical upon itself with endless caveats, and comma spliced sentences, with or without ostentatiously stimulating vocabulary, ending some properly stated intention only after too much intervening verbiage. Intellectual my... never-you-mind.

Twenty-five words or less. Fewer if we want to win.

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it think. With information, the sight of water, he thinks or he dies. Give water.

[Mend]

15. Flawed Campaign

I think John Kerry was a wonderful possibility for president and would have been a great leader. I have trouble dealing with the fact that his campaign was terrible, knowing how the repukes operate. How could they have so failed to present our case? After all these years dealing with these miserable bastards, couldn't someone have run a more ruthlessly effective campaign? I thought Michael Moore demonstrated the correct approach: compassion for people and exposing the buffoon-in-chief.

[barb162]

21. "couldn't someone have run a more ruthlessly effective campaign"

yeah, Karl Rove, eyes blindfolded and hands tied behind his back. Rove had a miserable loser candidate twice and won twice. Kerry did some things wrong, but Bush did far more wrong. But Rove's strategy worked and all I was saying all along was we have to do it "their" way no matter how distasteful. Fact is, their way wins. Imagine if Rove had a bunch of Swifties on his little bushboy. WOuld he have handled it like Kerry's campaign people. Hell no. Rove would have annihilated the swifties in about, oh, tops, 2 days. Kerry's campaign was on the defensive about it for weeks. Rove would have gone on the offensive against the swiftboat scum immediately.

[xchrom]

26. we need to talk more about rove

and his tactics -- he is a very good strategist.
very good.

[w4rma]

50. His tactics are simple. Attack, attack, attack relentlessly. Say anything.

Attack as often as possible. Squeeze in as many attacks as you can in as little time as possible.

When attacked, ignore. If can't be ignored, deny. If can't deny, blame. Never admit *anything* went wrong. (note this part of the strategy is geared towards keeping their Republican base in the dark).

On lawmaking, everything must be written in a way to maximize advantage. Sabatoge anything that doesn't, even if it works great. Lie about this agenda. Avoid specifics because "the devil is in the details". The details will show the lie so cover them up or lie about them if you can't. Use "national security" to cover up the details if that works. Use anything to provide that neccessary secrecy to keep folks in the dark. Promote ignorance and division.

[Coastie for Truth]

87. That was Bush's winning strategy.

[barb162]

102. I see it as attack, get lies out and keep repeating them, question

the integrity of the other side, change the subject if someone asks a hard question, put the other side on the defensive with lies and innuendo and keep them there, get some very clear, simplistic phony issues (moral values) aand repeat ad infinitum, etc.

I am not saying the Dems should do all of this. We (or I should say the Dem campaign people) were not attacking. They also should have been doing some amount of innuendo, like where the hell was Bush again in 1972 and why is this person sending others to fight a war that never should have been started?

[barb162]

100. yes, definitely. When you look at Bush as a candidate

what do you have? An ex-drunk, coke brain, failed businessman, born with a silver spoon in his mouth, can't handle a sentence of more than 10 words without screwing something up, a radical right idiot who wants to take benefits form the average American, a man who started a USELESS war, etc who lies, lies, lies, he's destroying the environment, the economy,etc. Rove took that piece of walking trash and turned it into a Prez (with moral values, flipflopping, etc)against excellent good Democrat candidates TWICE.

Rove is the best political marketing strategist around. He knows what plays. The Dem strategists were playing with themselves when the swifties were hitting hard. This isn't hindsight; I said the same when it was happening. I remember when the swiftie stuff was going on and some people on these boards were saying, oh the Dem campaign has a plan, when they are going to do something. I actually wrote to the Kerry campaign a few times telling them what to do, how to fix the mess they were in, not that they would listen to me. I wonder how many people wrote to the Kerry campaign back then. I bet thousands of people.

[fshrink]

17. This can be expanded

to a general trait, or perhaps strategy: down-playing anything which could look like too far to the left. Comes a point, pretty quick when situation is tense, where you lose the substance of who you really are. And come across as such, regardless of the content of your claims. Even refusing to conceded was "too far to the left". And now an empty shell is left.

[Toots]

20. I agree completely even though I was 100% for Kerry

I did not want my candidate to claim to be more of a war monger than what we currently have. I wanted him to talk more about Democrats success during the ninties and be able to quote all the Republicans who claimed the Democrats would bring financial ruin to our nation in 1992. How if Clinton's budget were to be passed it would destroy the American economy and then go on to quote the statistics that show America experienced the greatest economic expansion in it's history under Clinton and experienced the greatest economic turn-around in history during Bush*'s first term. He did not do those things but went on to fill the airwaves with "me too" rhetoric saying how much like Bush* he was. He chose the wrong strategy IMHO and we all will suffer for it. We will be stronger as a country without a war monger as our leader.

[dad]

29. Your graphic is too large

And it puts half of your post off to the righthand side of the screen

[Lorien]

27. Isn't this refreshing:

"Soros said he's no longer actively investing and is primarily interested only in earning enough to support $300 million in annual spending on philanthropic and political projects."

A wealthy man who is accumulating wealth ONLY to give it away in an effort to make the world a better place!

And although I do believe the election was stolen, Soros is also correct; had Kerry run with a clear message of true opposition (something many of us were concerned about during the election) he probably would have won by such a large margin that stealing the election would have been nearly impossible for BushCo.

[CrispyQ]

30. I lost hope when JK said

that knowing what we all know now he still would have voted for the war. WTF??

[radio4progressives]

127. Yep - you and everyone else i know... WTF????

[barb162]

170. that was one of Kerry's worst tactical mistakes; I couldn't believe

he said it

[Malva Zebrina]

32. I've talked to people who voted Bush

They have said that they hate the war, but saw little difference between Bush and Kerry re the war. (Don't change horses in the middle of the stream) I am going to agree with Soros here. This was a great weakness in Kerry, not taking a stand that was identifiable as his own solution and speaking hardly at all to the issue instead concentrating on the economy, jobs etc. when the war was utmost in the minds of the people(how could it not be?) His IWR vote was a huge mistake, and this is not hindsight--there were many Democrats who voted ABB to begin with.

[Old and In the Way]

36. Sadly, we'll lose every future Presidential campaign due to flawed

candidates....until we deal with election fraud.

[progressivebydesign]

37. I supported Kerry, BUT he was not our best out of the Primaries!

I remember here at DU, I disgreed vehemently with all the people who were shouting down the supporters of other Dem candidates, with their insistence that Kerry was the only one "ELECTABLE!!". Every day, that's all we heard on DU during the primaries. I supported Howard Dean, and then stood behind Kerry when he was our nominee.

I still can't believe that Kerry's people could be so clueless as to underestimate the furor over his anti-war activities, and the enemies he made, because of it. While I think he was right in his protests, and testimony... they were ill prepared to deal with it.

Too many people voted for Bush because they were afraid to switch presidents mid-war, regardless of the piece of shit war it was... Kerry did not offer up a compelling reason to switch. For some reason, Bush's disastrous handling of the economy and trashing of our country was a non-issue, because Kerry's supposed sensationalistic failings were the soundbites.

Soros should know, as any reasonably intelligent Democrat knows, that the MEDIA had a BIG part in Kerry's loss. Kerry was not strong enough to win over the MEDIA, and that's what it's all about... AND.. until we control some parts of the media again, our candidate cannot win. There's more to it than Kerry's failings.. much more.

[AndyTiedye]

39. No Democrat Can "Win Over" the Media Until We OWN Some of It!

[Sterling]

113. Our candidate MUST call out the whore media.

Kerry and the DLC try to play their game.

[KissMeKate]

120. and we must create our own media.

the media is loyal only to their corporate masters and the almighty dollar. Democrats sometimes threaten that. The media is not our friend.

[AndyTiedye]

130. Dean Tried To, and They Destroyed His Candidacy Overnight

[brentspeak]

41. Kerry counted too much on the "ABB" vote

He and his campaign tried twice as hard to sell John Kerry as ABB than they did to sell John Kerry as John Kerry. That was also Dean's flaw during the primaries. And, truth be told, a lot of DU'ers thought that the election was in the bag for Kerry, simply because of the widespread antipathy towards Bush.

John Edwards has the kind of personality which would have created a positive distinguishement in the mind of the voter.

[Robert Oak]

44. bingo

plus the democrats hung themselves in 2002. They just laid down, didn't challenge anything, voted for this ridiculous war...let
the propaganda through.
and Kerry, supporting the war, was doomed.

Which is my question...how could they possibly not know that intelligence was bogus when even at the time there were whistleblowers
and experts questioning it, to the risk of their careers and reputations?

My personal impression, watched the election was "wishy washy"
"pandering".

Especially on "Benedict Arnold CEO's".

Over 70% of the American public think outsourcing is wrong...
but if you've got a guy who voted for free trade all of the way
basically nobody believed he was going to change a damn thing.

The Kerry campaign finally put out a paper but only a week before
the election, targeting outsourcing...

and most never believed it would have any effect.

Add that to the war and the wishy washy answers to that plus
not standing up and saying he protested the vietnam war, it was
wrong and that's that...

he came across as a "puppet" blowing in the wind.

[KissMeKate]

71. I didnt think he was going to change anything about trade either.

eom.

[killbotfactory]

47. Flawed? You think?

I could of told you that war hero crap wouldn't work before he was nominated... oh wait, i did.

[info being]

49. Totally agree

He was embarrassing to all of us this morning on Meet the Press. I'm actually kind of glad he isn't President.

[Clarkie1]

53. Soros strikes me a smart guy n/t

[many a good man]

55. Would have been much better president than candidate

Kerry is physically unable to present a clear coherent message.

At times he can, but he always muddles it up with caveats and qualifiers-- the complete opposite of **.

[KissMeKate]

56. the constant qualifying language killed him.

I hated even listening to him speak.

[lancdem]

106. I agree

[Dr Fate]

60. He's right- but Kerry is still cool wit me....

Question is- is Kerry the type who learns from his mistakes?...

[bvar22]

72. He showed no evidence of "learning" this AM.

*

[Dr Fate]

74. He could of done better- but he was okay...

...Stay on his ass is all I can tell ya- but try to be fair...

[radio4progressives]

126. I saw that interview and nearly puked my guts out. with disgust.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

75. Sadly Kerry bought the DLC SCAM hook, line, and sinker!

In the future, Democrats need to offer sincere ideals to the people.

[politicasista]

76. Thanks alot Kerry campaign

for helping re-elect the WORST president ever! This is "Let's hate on Kerry Day!" (sarcasm) Let's see, this or that candidate could have done this or that better, bla, bla, bla. :mad: :argh:

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

79. Thank you! Mr. Soros. How 'bout putting some $$$ behind DEAN!

Kerry was a waste...

JB

[BRockNYLA]

81. Wrong

This election came down to national security and 9/11. I agree that the Kerry campaign did not provide a credible alternative. I do not think, however, that Kerry deserves all the blame. We need to acknowledge our share of the responsibility. Kerry was bound by the anti-war folks on the left from truly speaking "tough" on the WOT. I'm not talking about the Iraq war. That was a huge mistake (or at least not worth the cost in lives and treasury) and everyone should know that by now. I'm talking about providing a comprehensive vision beyond Iraq. I'm talking about language that I'm sure would get most folks here pretty worked up. Believe it or not this is most Americans respond to. Sure it is silly on many levels, but it works in politics. At least it works for the Repugs. Bush can swagger and taunt and win more votes. The minute a Dem uses any militaristic language the left is ready to jump ship.

My only point is that I do not believe the anti-war strategy/image of the party is viable. The Iraq war completely f**ks our foreign policy argument because we sound as if we are anti-war when we speak out against this particular action. The other, more fundamental, problem is that our grassroots folks might actually be "anti-war", a position which hinders our candidates and hinders our chances of being a viable alternative.

[ikojo]

90. Yes, George Soros hitting nail on the head...if the Dems

want to win they MUST show by word and DEED how they are DIFFERENT from the Republicans....running as the diet version of George W will not do it.

When offered real coke or new coke....people who are on the fence will choose real coke all the time and this time they got real COKE in spades.

[twaddler01]

92. If only Kerry did things right...

we wouldn't be in this mess now. I agree, he seemed to not have a point-blank set idea on what he believed in. See, Bush had a way of convincing the public that he was all about resolve...he made this clear in speeches and most of the things he would say (responses to reporters, etc).

Bush won because Kerry changed his mind many times about certain issues. If he would have been a straight-shooter, we could have avoided 4 more years of hell...

I hope to see someone straight-forward in 2008. This way we can get the good democrats back where they belong and get rid of all this other crap.

[radio4progressives]

125. Kerry's Interview with Tim Russert this Very Morning was a Perfect Example

of what was WRONG with his campaign.

What was WRONG with Kerry's campaign was his POSITION in FAVOR OF THE WAR.

Kerry obviously has far more intellect than that Chimpanzee in the White House. Just not enough intelligence to understand his policy on this was dead wrong in principle, theory and action.

A certain agenda got in the way, and that's why Kerry did not win a landslide victory that was his to lose.

I am more angry and resentful at him for betraying our trust with his incoherent agenda over Iraq and Israel.

Just this morning I learned for the first time, that Kerry had proposed to make sweeping changes in the Social Security system during Clinton's administration.

My god. My friends were very very concerned that Kerry victory might be worse than another four years with Bush. I thought they were ought of their minds for suggesting such a notion.

But it turns out there were other policies that Kerry was not up front about - had he became victorious might have gained traction coming from a capital D democrat - policies we would have had no chance in launching a formidable opposition, because those policies would have been put front and center by a Democrat. Just like Clinton, we would have been virtually silenced by party officials had it been Kerry going forward with the SS "reform" he proposed in 1996. Anyone else see that interview with Russert this morning?

I was sickened by it.

[Democat]

98. Soros is right

Kerry's campaign was pathetic.

[Piperay]

114. I agree

TOTALLY. :-(

[lovuian]

101. Kerry was a Skull & Bones candidate & did his job Shut up

Dean and Kucinich and Sharpton and MosleyBraun

He did his job just like Liberman did his job with Gore

[agincourt]

109. The image I have in my mind,

of this vomit-inducing election is shrub as a straw dog surrounded by rabid pit bulls and rottweillers. Kerry and Edwards looked like two tired old wolves surrounded by toy poodles. I thought they did an so-so Ok job as candidates. Bush with his IQ of 50 wins because of fraud and a nasty, effective propaganda machine that they have worked on for years.

[Toucano]

111. Soros isn't paying attention.

If Kerry had "admitted, owned up to it" (I'm not so sure he didn't - "Going Up River" was released during the campaign and it's quite clear) the rabid, blood-thirsty Americans would have skewered him all that much more.

It's America's choice. John Kerry is an amazing man and a brilliant leader. America is responsible for endorsing the Bush doctrine.

Four more years? Have at it, America. But don't give me that crap about not being given a "coherent alternative".

[smoogatz]

118. Kerry's Votes on Iraq Killed His Credibility

Howard Dean pointed out during the primaries that Kerry voted incorrectly twice on the Iraq invasion--first to authorize force, then against the supplemental. That left him little room to present himself as an alternative/opposition voice on the war--which was clearly THE issue of the '04 campaign. Then he dropped the ball again, big time, with the "voted for it before I voted against it" line. Americans are sick of these lawyerly parsings of policy and meaning--nuance is one thing, incoherence is another. Bush is an idiot, but he's a plainspoken idiot--and a lot of people prefer that to trying to figure out what the definition of "is" is.

[twaddler01]

132. i like how you put that...

I totally agree

[LilBitRad]

119. Interesting read n/t

[scottxyz]

129. Kind of makes sense

Once again, we had a "Repuclican Lite" running on the Democratic ticket. Another "me-too" candidate.

The Dems should have differentiated themselves, instead of trying to mimic the Republicans. Offer a real alternative. People are sick of Iraq and the Dem candidate should have said I WILL GET US OUT OF IRAQ ASAP.

[dandrhesse]

133. Soros disappointed me more than Kerry

The media is bought by the right,which is now actually coming out as fact. I don't know how much Soros has in terms of wealth, but the money behind Bush is astronomical. Considering what Kerry was up against with the international money involved on the right it is incredible that it wasn't a walk away for Bush.

[KissMeKate]

136. I hope Soros will invest in left wing media.

we sure could use it.

[dandrhesse]

137. I agree, until our message can get out and the lying on the right is

exposed, no candidate, no matter how great will be successful. I feel the same about the voting process. It doesn't matter who runs if the contest is fixed from the beginning and the media is so stacked.

The fact that Kerry is an exemplary Senator, he has done some incredibly good work, and he was a war hero, and a anti-war protester, both of which he should receive credit. If the right could smear him, they would have been able to discredit anyone.

It is an embarrassment to me personally to be viewed in such a selfish light by the rest of the world.

[Rex]

134. Dam, I could have saved Mr Soros all that money wasted.

Kerry was a plant (skull & bones brother) who would NEVER sue his fellow brother, George Bush jr.

I could have saved him the money by finding an authentic candidate.

[aikido15]

150. Yep!

I am so sick of these discussions about Democrats and Republicans...When are people going to wake up and realize there is very little difference between the two?

Support a third party. Socialism and Liberation, not Democrat and Republican!

WAKE UP PROGRESSIVES!

[HumblePiRSquared]

135. Let's have a pity party for Soros and his 26 million loss

How many hungry people could have been fed with his wasted millions?

[bvar22]

142. The Bumper Sticker that would have WON the election!

John Kerry---
I'm not Anti-War...
I'm anti-STUPID War!!!

No discussions, explanations, nuance, caveats, limiters, or qualifiers.

Plaster it on EVERY billboard and car bumper in America!
He didn't even need any other issues. Just this one ...over and over again.

The American Electorate has PROVED that it cannot relate to ANYTHING that won't fit on bumper sticker.
The sad part is that this was proved in 2000, and the Democratic Party was TOO STUPID to learn the lesson!

[barb162]

172. yep, words like moral values and flipflopper are winning elections

these days. The GOP knows that and keeps things super-simple

[FlemingsGhost]

146. Destroy the DLC.

Now!

[ausiedownunderground]

152. Bit late to realize George - Kerry's no Yukashenko!!!

Soros wins some he losses some! Thats politics! Maybe George, your organization should have been looking at E-Voting!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't see that occuring in "Ukraine" or "Georgia"! It must have occurred in Belarus! though!

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

153. I know people who voted for Bush and SAID TO ME...

"Kerry did not, actually, offer a credible and coherent alternative."

Maybe not the exact words, but the exact meaning. They said things like "It's not that I was pro-Bush, it's that Kerry didn;t offer anything better."

Hey, THEIR words, not MINE.

A lot of people don't like that. Tough CRAP, it's the truth. It may not offer a complete picture of what happened in the election, but there WAS a segment of the population who voted for Bush because they felt they didn't "know" Kerry.

And yeah, that opens up a whole other can of worms, because Bush lies and hides behind his fake "Christianity," but that's not the point. There's little difference between someone who "knows" you and someone who "thinks they know you." People believe what they wanted to believe, and SOME voters...however reluctantly they did this..."believed" in Bush.

We have FOUR FUCKING YEARS to "define" a candidate. FOUR YEARS to "offer a credible and coherent alternative." FOUR YEARS to STOP pointing the finger and GET TO WORK.

Unless we want President Frist, President Giuliani, President McCain, or President Gingrich, that is. I know I don't.

:grr:

[nolabels]

164. Billionaire Democrats undermine campaign for equal access

Your either part of the problem or part of the solution. The more dollars you have, the more democracy you can get, is that not correct?

The loyal fake opposition are the same guys who complain about the advantage the rich have to all the breaks and then also take advantage of them to screw the poor. When this 76 year old sells his estate to assist in a cause I might believe him on some higher level, but as it is now I just see him covering his options

[Dirk39]

166. One single time, I don't want to comment on Soros

and what he would have to do, to become credible in any way.

He nails it: Bush starts an illegal occupation against another country and what the f*cking stupid hell is Kerry's - the "Democratic" challenger's - reply:


I'm reporting for Duty!!!!!!!

How stupid and idiotic is this: Hello, Georgie Boy: I'm a war criminal, too! Vote for me! I was a hero, supporting other Americans slaughtering 2-4 million brown vietnames communist Untermenschen. I'm the alternative: Vote for me! (and a little bit of healthcare that will not happen anyway).

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[durutti]

173. I agree entirely. n/t