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CNN: BREAKING NEWS Two-seater U.S. chopper crashes in Baghdad

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:45 PM
Original message
CNN: BREAKING NEWS Two-seater U.S. chopper crashes in Baghdad
cnn.com - top of the page in red.

BREAKING NEWS Two-seater U.S. chopper crashes in Baghdad; status of crew unknown, U.S. military sources say.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. U.S. Army Helicopter Crashes in Baghdad (Friday 1/28/05)
1 minute ago Middle East - AP



BAGHDAD, Iraq - An Army helicopter crashed in southwest Baghdad on Friday night, and the fate of the crew was not immediately known, a U.S. military official said.



U.S. military officials do not believe the helicopter was hit by hostile fire, Lt. Col. James Hutton said.


The OH-58 Kiowa helicopter usually carries a crew of two pilots and is unlikely to carry large numbers of passengers.


Ground units were at the scene, but the status of the crew was not immediately known, Hutton told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.

~snip~

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&nci...
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Don't believe it was hit by hostile fire...
Would they tell us?
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. They have to fly so low and so fast to avoid getting hit by insurgents
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 01:12 PM by Pirate Smile
that it hugely increases the chances of crashing. It is related to the fighting. (this is what I heard during the discussions of the crash that killed over 30 soldiers)
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. But those are details that they don't want us to know...
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Oh, I know. It is just like a car crash that could happen anywhere.
:eyes:
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. It went down over Baghdad.
It was probably drawing a lot of fire.
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wabeewoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. They'll tell us-just not the truth
Thought this was interesting:
The military is still investigating what caused that CH53E Super Stallion to crash. This is the one from the other day that killed 31 soldiers.

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. "Still investigating" means that they are waiting for a
Friday night news dump, or some other distracting event before they let the families know that their children died 'in combat'.
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. I was just wondering what today's news dump would be.
Helicopters are so very dangerous even when not in combat. I have a former Marine friend who almost crashed in a helicopter in Hawaii. When something goes wrong, down you go and hard.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Was that the one that went down in a sandstorm?
On the same day the weather reports indicated calm winds?
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I heard they hit heavy fog and since they have to fly so fast and so low
there is no margin for error.

The helicopter in back went higher because of the fog and the one that crashed hit the ground.

But who the hell really knows and how can you believe what they say anyway.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I'll accept that...
but I have to wonder why I heard early reports of sandstorms. Seems everything I hear from MSM is tailored for domestic consumption...the hell with the truth.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
41. Sand and wind are an issue over that way
In fact, one of the reasons that the Sikorsky and Bell platforms that were used in the ill-fated DESERT ONE effort during the hostage drama in Iran failed was due to sand intake. Also, they didn't ajust for the altitude changes either between sea level and the higher elevations where they staged.

There are a load of old guys who have substantial experience in helo maintenance in that part of the world, former Bell and Sikorsky contractors who worked for Iraq and Iran back in the old days. They should ask them about screens to mitigate the issue, instead of reinventing the damn wheel all over again...for the third time!

http://www.weathernotebook.org/transcripts/2003/05/15.p...
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. There were early reports it was downed by enemy fire.
Personally, I think they want to cover it up, and they're looking at plugging up any leaks.
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Aircraft crash investigations take time
Meanwhile, the media and the blogosphere run rampant with rumors. Remember all the crazy-ass speculations about the TWA and SwissAir crashes? The Concorde?

Flying helicopters is extraordinarily risky compared to say, driving a car, which itself is risky enough. There are a lot of choppers flying in Iraq, and some of them are going to go down whether or not they are shot at, just as happened in Indonesia recently during the relief flights.

Save the rumor-mongering for where it's more fun, like whether * is stealing nips from his flask when he goes to the men's room. :-) Seriously, the near-delight I sense in some of these posts is unseemly to say the least.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. They don't know the status of the helicopter crew yet...
...but they are already sure the crash wasn't due to enemy fire.

Bullshit.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. another accident
that's two terrible pilots.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. A "loach"? What're they doing? Snoopy missions? Pink teams?
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 12:58 PM by TahitiNut
Shades of Vietnam. :eyes:
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. OH-58 is a Bell JetRanger (5-seater)
Usually used for observation or administration runs.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Thanks! So...why the info that it was a 2-seater?
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Twillig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. So the don't have the media
asking more questions like: "Did another thirty or so troops just die?"

Two are fungible.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Oh God...
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Red State Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. Please see correction posted below n/t
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Twillig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. ah, I see
I didn't mean that they said it was a two-seater to cover up another big transport 'copter crash.

I meant to say that they said it was a two-seater so that the theme of the story (only two dead, don't worry) would be evident in the headline.


Sorry I wasn't clear.

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Red State Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:24 PM
Original message
Incorrect, it is a 2 seater
Every source I checked, including this forum for Kiowa pilots/families says it is a 2 seater.

http://www.kiowapilots.com/forums/showthread.php?s=46cb...

If you scroll down, you will see a post referring to a news report that it was a 3 seater and a that it is incorrect, a few posts below that it states it is a 2 seater.

No offense meant, I just hate to see people go all conspiracy theory on a non issue.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
36. The original OH-58 had 5 seats. I know. I flew in them in Vietnam.
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 05:27 PM by DemoTex
Here is an account of the death of John Paul Vann (subject of A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam by Neil Sheehan) in an OH-58 in Vietnam's Central Highlands on June 9, 1972 along with two others. The point is, not all variants of the OH-58 are 5-seaters; not all are 2-seaters, either.

http://www.thebattleofkontum.com/stars/43.html

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Red State Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Is it the "Kiowa" model that is 2 seater?
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 05:19 PM by Red State Rebel
That is what I was going by, everything that came up under the 0H-58 Kiowa indicated 2 seats. That is the model specified in the Yahoo news story.

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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. The original OH-58 of the 60s was the "Kiowa."
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 05:29 PM by DemoTex
The new variant, the OH-58D is known as the "Kiowa Warrior". The OH-58D is a recon/attack helicopter and has only two seats. However, the specs on the OH-58D say it is capable of carrying up to six troops "externally." I don't know if that means standing on the skids, in a "sling-load," or what.

On edit: There are still plenty of the older model OH-58s flying, especially with National Guard units.
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Red State Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. Oh geez! Can't imagine riding on the skids...
I'd be checking my laundry for sure!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
53. Here's the 1969 'Nam Kiowa (w/o Cobra JAAT pair)
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DFWJock Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. Nothing to see here folks...
Freedom is on the march...liberty...freedom....
Thats all you need to know.
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Oreo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
22. Can't remember where I heard this
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 01:27 PM by Oreo
but some Army general talking about the Stallion crash said it was a mechanical failure due to bad weather and went on to say a cause was not known for the accident immediately after that.

Big grain of salt for anything we hear this weekend (moreso then usual)
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. A Texas sized salt dome won't be big enough
The lies will be thicker than an Iraqi sandstorm over the next week or so, given the upcoming "election".
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Bernie Ward on KGO -
Bernie Ward made an observation last night concerning the Stallion crash. Someone emailed him with the weather conditions at the time of the crash. It was clear with light and variable winds.

Ummmm....me thinks that it was hit by a Stinger.

-P
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
25. another busy day in Iraq
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 01:50 PM by LynnTheDem
Busy dying.

7 US so far.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. rock and roll
Bush predicted there would be an increase in violence. How right he was.

There's an increase alright. The Bushies are going to need Harris and Blackwell to patch up this debacle.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. The Tet has begun
And it's gonna keep getting worse.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
29. We always said they happen in three's. Sad day.
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 02:19 PM by caligirl
When one squadron had an accident, all the wives and families sat on egg shells waiting for the next one to happen. They always happened in three's. We were in Kaneohe Bay, Hi in the 80's when the helos were still there.
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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. Im getting a bit worried about this incident now...
There is still no word on the crew. Praying that they didnt get taken hostage.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. The aircraft's mission profile, fwiw
http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2004/040924-kiow...

After countless modifications over the years, pilots in Iraq were equipped with the latest model of the Kiowa helicopter, the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior, currently replacing the A and C Kiowas. It is a two-seat, single-engine, four-bladed single main rotor light helicopter with a low light television, thermal imaging system, and laser range finder/designator incorporated into an above the rotor Mast Mounted Sight (MMS). It is designed to operate autonomously at standoff ranges providing armed reconnaissance, command and control, and target acquisition and designation under day/night, hot, and adverse weather conditions.

The Kiowa Warrior can designate targets for precision-guided munitions carried by Apache helicopters, other airborne vehicles, or ground based systems. Using the Airborne Target Handover System, the Kiowa Warrior is capable of rapidly providing adjustment of conventional artillery or handing targets to other airborne weapons platforms equipped with digital receiving equipment. The Kiowa Warrior can also be armed with Air-to-Air Stinger missiles and Air-to-Ground Hellfire missiles, 2.75 inch rockets, or a .50 caliber machine gun.



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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
32. The second one in a week 'not caused by hostile file' - RIGHT!
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. From Fox news story:
"Other helicopters were flying over the crash site in southwest Baghdad to provide cover for the ground search and rescue units, Hutton said"

Freedom is on the march!!!
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PhuLoi Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
35. I wouldn't be suprised if it turned out to be an OH-13 to be piloted
by some of those mid-sixities pilots.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. The mighty OH-13 "Sioux" of M.A.S.H. fame ..
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
40. kick
What happened? This story seemed to just drop out of the news.
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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Im trying to figure that out as well... still no word on the crew.
every hour makes me feel more unsure about what happened to them.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. What's the big deal? More dead soldiers and destroyed equipment
What else is new?
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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Its different for me everytime... nt
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. ?? - don't appreciate the sarcasm/irony?
I do.
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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. no I gotcha, was saying why it was a deal at all to me is all..
your sig pretty much states it all on its own.
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pfitz59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
43. Uh Oh
"Kiowa Down". If the crew survived I'm sure the Iraqi's gave them a hero's welcome! I learned to fly helos in a TH-57 jet-ranger. Nimble little birds...... Relatively easy to auto-rotate.... Something's fishy here....
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
47. bttt
:kick:
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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Bttt???? nt
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osaMABUSh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
50. Haven't heard squat on this since CNN breaking - why buried?
It was a screaming Breaking News headline on cnn.com early but I haven't seen nothing in MSM since. What gives?
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osaMABUSh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
51. Ok, probably seven dead soldiers today and nothing?
This blip was buried in an article on cnn.com about the election.

The media is totally in lock step with this evil empire.


"A two-seat U.S. OH-58 Kiowa Warrior helicopter crashed Friday evening about 8 in southwest Baghdad, but whether the incident was part of pre-election violence was not known. Neither is the status of the two-person crew, the U.S. military said.

Officers with the 1st Cavalry Division said hostile fire was not suspected.

Elsewhere Friday, makeshift bombs killed four U.S. soldiers in separate attacks in southern and western Baghdad, and gunfire killed a fifth soldier in northern Baghdad, the military said."

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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
52. They still have the story at fuax
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145715,00.html

Still no update from the original story!
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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
54. anyone find anything new yet? nt
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. No, the story has disappeared from CNN and Faux
I guess they think we are stupid. Not much we can do about it though.
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Al Jazeera says two died in the crash
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5A91CFB3-0CA5-4F...

Not a peep from domestic news sources.
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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
57. they died.. heres the LBN link....
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 11:36 AM by frictionlessO
I think they buried it so it would pass into the forgotten weekend news.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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SodoffBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. It's going to be more difficult to bury the US embassy attack
The freedom fighters are playing the media very well.
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