Band’s version of ‘Dixie’ in state Senate hits sour note with some

[davidinalameda]

http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_19291087.shtml

A high school band’s rendition of a tune that was an Elvis Presley hit decades ago drew a complaint from a newly elected member of the state Senate.

The Richland Center High School band played “An American Trilogy” at the Senate’s inaugural ceremony at the Capitol Monday.

State Sen. Spencer Coggs, who is black, said he was shocked, as were his family and other guests, to hear the strains of the Southern anthem “Dixie” played in the Senate chamber as part of the trilogy, along with “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” and “All My Trials.”


what are these people thinking

its Wisconsin for goodness sake--not Alabama so they can't claim "it's part of my heritage"

[jpgray]

1. Meh. Lincoln had it played for him after the South was defeated

He called it one of the best tunes he'd ever heard. Also, it being in a medley with the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" makes me think it isn't such a big deal. I can see why he was offended, but I don't agree that it is particularly offensive in this case.

edit: The songwriter, Daniel Emmett, lived in the North during the war and even wrote patriotic tunes like "The Road to Richmond", &c. I don't like forever tying innocent music to the ideology that uses it for promotion.

[11cents]

2. That's the sad thing -- it's a great tune!

One thing about that Civil War: both sides had superb anthems. "Dixie" and "Battle Hymn of the Republic." Too bad the former was the anthem of a hideous entity.

[SoCalDem]

11. "land of cotton"..."old times there are not forgotten"??

Those two alone, would cause "a reaction".. It's very like the "
code-speak" that repubes use today..

cotton?? who picked it?? who profitted from it??
old times not forgotten?? One side had "fond" memories..the other, not so

[Charlie Brown]

51. Fair enough. Should we ban "Gone with the Wind?"

After all, it might be offensive to some. What about the poetry of Sydney Lanier? Or Mark Twain or Steinbeck?

[Red State Rebel]

58. Cotton is still grown in the South

and slaves haven't had to pick it for quite some time now. Why does everything have to be so freaking contorted these days. It's like people just wait to find something to be insulted about.

[FredScuttle]

23. Wagner's music is nice, too....ask any Holocaust survivor

n/t

[jpgray]

24. Ezra Pound did propaganda for the fascists. Shall we ban readings of him?

Both he and T. S. Eliot were noted anti-Semites. The songwriter of "Dixie" had no such ties to the barbaric institution his song was attached to against his will.

[FredScuttle]

26. As a poster below noted, taste and good judgement would have been nice

I don't care if the songwriter was a saint on earth...it's unfortunate, yes, but his song is inextricably linked to a dark period in our history and you'd have to be pretty thick to not realize the insult to black Americans it carries.

Hey, life is unfair...ask the Hindus who saw their swastika appropriated and debased by the Nazis.

edit: I did some Google snooping on the writer, Daniel Emmett, and lo and behold, he used to be a minstrel show performer - famed for his "Negro impersonation"!

http://www.danemmett.org/

Makes sense when you pull up some versions of the Dixie lyrics which end with the following lovely verses:

"Dars buckwheat cakes an' ingen batter, makes you fat or a little fatter,
Look away, look away, look away, Dixie land.
Den hoe it down and scratch your grabble to Dixie's land
I'm bound to travel,
Look away, look away, look away Dixie land. (Chorus)"

[jpgray]

27. I'm with Lincoln on this one

Just because it was misappropriated from its innocence doesn't mean it loses it forever. I mean, old Vedic documents aren't outlawed for being anti-Semitic, for example.

[FredScuttle]

29. So, the fact it was written by a minstrel show performer

just adds to the song's "innocence"?

Remind me not to have you pick out the music for my next party.

[jpgray]

30. There is no intrinsic support for slavery in the song

And as for the intent of the songwriter, why would he write patriotic songs for the North, live in the North, and die in the North if his intent was racist and intended to support slavery? Unless you're banning all minstrel show songs as racist in their intent, in which case we have to ban 80+% of the popular song catalogue from the prewar era.

[FredScuttle]

31. "if his intent was racist"?

if his intent was racist?

did you just type that?

[jpgray]

32. Yes. Why are you getting worked up?

Can you point out the racist parts to me?
-----

O, I wish I was in the land of cotton
Old times there are not forgotten
Look away! Look away!
Look away! Dixie Land.

In Dixie Land where I was born in
Early on one frosty mornin'
Look away! Look away!
Look away! Dixie Land.

Chorus:
O, I wish I was in Dixie!
Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand
To live and die in Dixie
Away, away,
Away down south in Dixie!

Old Missus marry Will, the weaver,
William was a gay deceiver
Look away! Look away!
Look away! Dixie Land.

But when he put his arm around her
He smiled as fierce as a forty pounder
Look away! Look away!
Look away! Dixie Land.

Chorus:
O, I wish I was in Dixie!
Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand
To live and die in Dixie
Away, away,
Away down south in Dixie!

His face was sharp as a butcher's cleaver
But that did not seem to grieve her
Look away! Look away!
Look away! Dixie Land.
Old Missus acted the foolish part
And died for a man that broke her heart
Look away! Look away!
Look away! Dixie Land.

Chorus:
O, I wish I was in Dixie!
Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand
To live and die in Dixie
Away, away,
Away down south in Dixie!

[FredScuttle]

33. Other than your defense of a minstrel show performer,

what's getting me is your obvliviousness...while you may enjoy the tune (and no one is saying you can't), it's a wholly inappropriate song for a public event, particularly one attended by black Americans.

Try that rationalization of "Dixie" as some innocent old ditty down on 110th St, Harlem USA and see how far you get.

[jpgray]

34. I understand why it may be offensive to some

But without racist intent or content I can't condemn the song as being racist. Sorry. The Confederate battle flag is a racist symbol because the intent of its creation was to create a symbol for the army of a nation that was founded on maintaining the institution of slavery. "Dixie" had no such purpose in its creation. Are you saying there is no difference between something purposely created to support slavery and something that was misappropriated by supporters of slavery? That doesn't make sense to me.

edit: And I'm not defending a misntrel performer, I'm arguing "Dixie" had no racist intent in its creation.

[FredScuttle]

36. Fine.....don't believe it to be racist

OK with me, I'm not going to change your mind. But would you agree that, at a public event attended by black Americans, there are literally thousands of songs in the canon of American Popular Music that would be more appropriate than "Dixie"?

As to your question of no difference between pieces created intentionally or not for evil purposes, I refer you again to the swastika...I could walk down the street with a T-shirt that had a big swastika on it. While I'm getting pummeled, I could explain that I'm wearing it as the Sanskrit symbol of good luck, but a fat lot good that would do me. I, instead, would recognize that the swastika is a repellent, horrific symbol to millions of people around the world and just leave it alone.

To your last point, I would say that, since the song was written by a minstrel show performer, it is inherently racist. There are a number of different versions of the lyrics to "Dixie" floating around the web...here's one version whose last couplet would lead me to believe Mr. Emmett didn't have the most enlightened view towards blacks.

I wish I was in the land of cotton,
old times there are not forgotten,
Look away, look away, look away, Dixie land.
In Dixie land where I was born in, early on a frosty mornin',
Look away, look away, look away, Dixie land.
Chorus:
Then I wish I was in Dixie, hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie land I'll take my stand, to live and die in Dixie,
Away, away, away down south in Dixie,
Away, away, away down south in Dixie.

Old Missus marry Will de Weaber, Will-yum was a gay deceaber,
Look away, look away, look away, Dixie land.
But when he put his arm around her,
smiled as fierce as a forty pounder.
Look away, look away, look away, Dixie land. (Chorus)

Dars buckwheat cakes an' ingen batter, makes you fat or a little fatter,
Look away, look away, look away, Dixie land.
Den hoe it down and scratch your grabble to Dixie's land
I'm bound to travel,
Look away, look away, look away Dixie land. (Chorus)

[jpgray]

37. So now he's responsible for pirated versions of his song?

But you are absolutely right that there are more appropriate songs. I am not here to tell you that no one has a right or a reason to be offended when Dixie is played. I am here to tell you I believe the song, as originally written by Emmett, doesn't have any significant racist overtones relative to those present in the entire United States at that time. But I see the offense taken rather as someone wanting to avoid seeing the car that their brother or sister died in--the car wasn't created to cause or aid in the tragedy, but it is strongly associated with it. There is a distinction there to me as compared to the confederate flag--that WAS created to aid and abet the tragedy.

But just because a Jewish person sees a Vedic document with that particular symbol for Ganesha on it and is offended, that doesn't mean the document is anti-Semitic. "Helter Skelter" by the Beatles isn't a call for a race war just because Charles Manson used it as such. Or would you argue it is? Shall we ban that next?

[FredScuttle]

39. Dixie is, to me, an abomination equal to the Confederate Flag

Unfair? Perhaps.
Realistic in A.D. 2005? Absolutely.

And I'm not being "politically correct" as the Wingnuts love to label us. I'm being sensitive towards and respectful of other people's feelings...big difference.

[jpgray]

40. All I'm saying is that there is a distinction between the two

To me it is important, to others maybe it isn't. But then I can see the same logic being applied to "Helter Skelter". It was misappropiated in the same way by Manson--used to justify and promote ideas that the song has nothing to do with, and in fact its creator directly opposed those ideas. You're right--it's not realistic to expect that the intent in any given swastika be determined correctly by any who come into contact with it, but seeing the same symbol on a statue of Ganesh is different than seeing it tattooed on a skinhead. With your argument, there is no difference. That's what I don't agree with.

[FredScuttle]

43. Then why is it

when I travelled to India as a boy and visited the Red Fort of Agra and saw, inlaid in a pillar, the Sanskrit sign of good luck did I ask my mother "Why is that Nazi sign there"?

Because I had been conditioned to associate the swastika with the greatest human horror of the 20th century. There's no difference whether it's displayed on an ancient tomb or in a Christian Identity newsletter...the Nazis have forever debased that symbol.

Who's to say Helter Skelter hasn't been touched by the Manson curse? When's the last time you heard it on the radio? I like the song myself, but I'd be sure to put away the White Album if I was ever visited by any members of the Tate or LaBianca families.

[jpgray]

44. That's where the tastefulness comes in, and there I agree with you

If Roman Polanski came over I wouldn't play "Helter Skelter". But again to me this is more like the car a loved one died in--I wouldn't use that car to drive the bereaved around in, but that doesn't make the car inherently bad.

These hypotheticals of mine are starting to sound pretty ridiculous, but I don't think we disagree as much as I previously thought. Probably I just didn't state my views clearly at first.

edit: And you're right--the Nazis have debased that symbol probably forever. Even in an innocent context those associsations can't disappear. And that to me is a serious tragedy, whereas the associations of slavery with the confederate battle flag aren't such a tragedy.

[FredScuttle]

47. It is a matter of tastefulness and tact

and playing Dixie in a mixed crowd is one of the most tasteless, tactless things I can think of.

[420inTN]

67. "William was a gay deceiver"

sounds homophobic to me. ;-)

[NYC]

42. Wagner was dead before WW2,

and his mother was Jewish.

[FredScuttle]

48. My point was that Wagner's music was used as the soundtrack to the gassing

of millions. Not Wagner's fault and, unfairly, his music is forever linked to the Holocaust.

[NYC]

49. Not the same as the lyrics to Dixie being specifically about

picking cotton, the good old days, and living and dying for Dixie.

[GarySeven]

50. Where in the lyrics do you find anything about the joys of slavery?

Oh, I wish I was in the land of Cotton--Old times there are not forgotten
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land
In Dixie Land where I was born in early on one frosty mornin'
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land (Chorus)

Chorus:
Then I wish I was in Dixie. Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand: To live and die in Dixie!
Away! Away! Away down south in Dixie.
Away! Away! Away down south in Dixie.

Ole Missus marry "Will the weaver", Willum was a gay deceiver.
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land
But when he put his arm around’er, He smiled fierce as a forty pounder!
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land (Chorus)

His face was sharp as a butcher's cleaver, But that did not seem to grieve'er
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land
Ole Missus acted the foolish part, And died for a man that broke her heart
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land (Chorus)

Now here's a health to the next ole Missus, An' all the gals that want to kiss us;
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land
But if you want to drive 'way sorrow, Come and hear this song tomorrow
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land (Chorus)

There's buckwheat cakes and Injun batter, Makes you fat or a little fatter;
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land
Then hoe it down and scratch your gravel, To Dixie's Land I'm bound to travel,
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land (Chorus)

[yardwork]

74. Actually, Emmett didn't write it. He stole it

from a group of black musicians. He was part of a traveling minstrel group and he "borrowed" the song from another group.

[jpgray]

75. I didn't know that, but that doesn't shock me

Minstrel groups were, after all, one of the earlier American examples of a long line of "borrowing" from African-based music by Caucasians. And in that case, its origin is even less likely to be considered racist. I still make no dispute about the association it indelibly has to slavery, I just argue one can see a past where that association didn't exist, whereas with something like the Confederate flag(s) the association was inherent in the creation.

[Ripley]

3. Huh. Wisconsin playing Dixie and Putting up 10 Commandments.

They should secede, doncha think?

[GarySeven]

6. Huh. Du'ers upset with the elections ....

They should secede, doncha think?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

19. Nice post, "secret" agent Gary Seven

[GarySeven]

35. What is it with you, anyway?

Everytime I post something you blow my cover.

BTW, I'm still looking for Terri Garr. She borrowed my "pen."

[donheld]

20. Du'ers upset with theocratic rule

Dixie and Putting up 10 Commandments are reminders of the creeping Fascism which is happening in our country.

[Bridget Burke]

4. Mickey Newberry wrote "An American Trilogy"

At least, he got credit for devising it. "An American Trilogy" is actually a medley, consisting of "The Battle Hymn of The Republic", "Dixie" and "All My Trials"--an old song from the Appalachians. It's a wonderfully touching creation & has only been covered by about 100 artists, including Elvis Presley.

I wonder if anybody bothered to enlighten poor Senator Coggs.

[Bono71]

5. My mom loves the Presly version. n/t

[davidinalameda]

9. poor Senator Coggs?

how about the poor band director who thought it was appropriate to play?

I don't give a crap if it's part of a medley or not, or if Elvis performed it, Dixie is seen and associated with the Confederacy--remember them--the ones who fought against the Union in the American Civil War

Senator Coggs' ancestors were enslaved by same Confederacy

I think he can bitch about the song being played

[Bono71]

12. Not everyone sees it that way, in fact, I bet a majority do not

think of the Confederacy---especially in WISCONSIN

[cosmicdot]

16. I bet they do. ~imho~ n/t

[ewagner]

7. Trilogy

...as I remember it....always spoke to me about the horror and tragedy of the Civil War....I don't see anything disrespectful about it.....

[gizmo1979]

8. yeah the repugs here

are on a mission from god.They are past drunk with power,they have Tabor,anti abortion,concealed weapons on their short list,we're in trouble here in WIS.Goodthing the gov. is a dem and has line item veto power!

[shrike]

10. I remember singing it in school

Music director made it a chorale selection. We sang it in concert a few times. I thought it was a beautiful arrangement.

[ForrestGump]

13. "American Trilogy"? Talk about an overreaction...

Mickey Newbury put it together as an ironic statement about the US. Elvis liked it and incorporated it into his stage repertoire in 1972 -- the single release didn't do all that well in '72, but it's since become a classic part of his canon and always went down well in concert. Let me further add that it went down well in concert no matter where he performed it -- his first tour after the Vegas season that debuted the song began in Buffalo, NY, and continued throughout the East and Midwest before diving south of the Mason-Nixon Line. The next tour started with four madly hyped concerts at Madison Square Garden. Elvis singing of Dixie to damned Yankees was far from the greatest irony of his career or of the United States' history, popular-culture and otherwise.

It's a great song, and that's all it is. Personally, I've always seen it as a paen to three faces of America, an effort at uniting those faces while retaining their inherent diversity, but I could also claim that it is a progression from the gentle reflection of "Dixie" (certainly as sung by Elvis -- the more boisterous traditional versions of the song are hardly subtle) to the bombast of "Battle Hymn" (here we have the North joining with the South, whether as adversary or not), to the personal note of "All My Trials," and on to a decisive victory by the "glory, glory hallelujah" song. Again, if you really want to get deep 'n' heavy you could claim that the song represents an ultimate victory by the Union. Who went then go on to perpetrate Wounded Knee, et al...but never mind that...we're talking about the evils of the South here, aren't we?

Bottom line is that it's a great song, Elvis' live versions will get your hairs up on end no matter what your nationality, and Spencer Coggs and his ilk are oversensitive f***wits who utterly fail to recognize the value of context and probably shouldn't be let out in public. Glory glory f***ing hallelujah, and hail hail rock 'n' roll.

[NorthernSpy]

15. not everything can be reconciled in the end, nor should be

In its time (1841) "Deutschland uber alles" was arguably a progressive sentiment. The anthem was a call to the people of the German lands to put aside all those old feudal loyalties and be part of a modern country: that was the meaning of putting Germany above all else (that is, above loyalty to the local princeling, or whoever). The Nazis later put their own spin on that, and now the first verse of the Deutschlandlied is completely forbidden in Germany.

It's taken me a while to come to this view -- that people really can behave horribly enough to put some things beyond redemption.

[Kellanved]

63. no, the first verse is not forbidden

It is just not part of the National Anthem.



IMHO "Trizonesien" should have been kept as the anthem:
http://www.schwarz-rot-petticoat.de/stueck/audio/Trizonesien.mp3

[NorthernSpy]

73. I know that the first verse was kicked out of the anthem...

... and, for what it's worth, I have read before that a person can be charged with some kind of offense for singing it in public. But I'll take your word for it regarding the verse's legal status.

In the US, racist speech (for instance) is not illegal. But using racist language in some situations might be considered an instance of using "fighting words", and therefore might also be considered a disturbance of the peace or something like that.

[Kellanved]

78. no, it is not like that

For instance a few Länder (States) teach all three verses in school.
Generally it is just considered bad taste to sing the first - and people with taste that bad might sing quite a few other songs.


Most people are more than happy to not have the first verse, just as an excuse to bypass the second ;-).

[bluedonkey]

61. Nicely put ForrestGump

My own reply wouldn't have been quite so civil,but then I was taught not to say anything at all,if I had nothing nice to say.So I held my tongue.
Gloria f**g Hallelujah!

[stevedeshazer]

14. No big deal

I was a band geek in high school, we played that sort of stuff all the time.

Sounds like James D. Ployhar to me.

[RavenSaysNeverMore]

17. Simple solution... ban it and Rush's Tom Sawyer too

And the thousands of other books and songs that insult anyone. Until nobody is offended by any public books or music we have work to do.

We need an easier way to ban things that offend the senses of others.

[spotbird]

18. Perhaps something less drastic would be in order.

For example those planning an event could use taste and good judgment.

[ForrestGump]

22. "Taste and good judgment"? In the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

What are you...some kind of pinko commie fur'ner?

It's long since too late for taste and good judgment, you radical subversive. Why do you hate America?

[aikido15]

54. Yes taste and judgement would be nice...

and throw in a little class while your at it..

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ForrestGump]

21. You just offended my senses

I ban you.

I'll think of a reason later. :P

[ashmanonar]

79. well, we're looking at it...

ray bradbury had the right idea when he wrote fahrenheit 451...

the real problem is that your sarcasm here is only partially sarcastic, as the right wing would gladly ban books or music that actually made you think, or feel...the bible-thumpers in the past HAVE done this, banning such books as huck finn...burning books, banning them for the sake of them being thoughtful and provocative...

i only hope that we won't have to resort to the methods used by the group of men in the end of F 451...(memorizing pieces of literature, to keep the knowledge alive...), i'd much rather keep literature the way it is, and take the right wing out of power...as a bibliophile myself, the thought of burning books is abhorrent...

(it's sad, really...the literature that portrays apocalyptic cultures or totalitarian cultures always seems to be despairing, rather than hopeful...probably best not to dwell on such thoughts...must be hopeful!)

[FredScuttle]

25. Elvis?

You mean the hillbilly who ripped off rock n'roll from Chuck Berry and Little Richard? Oh, well, if he performed "Dixie" then it must be OK.

I'm with Chuck D. on this one.

[earthtime]

28. Ban Elvis and Dixie

In dixie land I'll take my stand, to live and die in dixie.

Dixie is where elvis is buried?
Let's bury this song (which this line seems to clear up any question on it's intent) along with Elvis and this thread.

[ForrestGump]

62. Hillbilly? No. Rockabilly, maybe, but not a billy of the hills

You and the inglorious Chuck D. are both pitifully ignorant of the facts. Elvis no more 'ripped off' music from any black performer than Ray Charles and Chuck Berry 'ripped off' white country music. Music is music. Go tell Little Richard or James Brown that Elvis ripped them off and see what their response is.

Traditionally black music (the blues and black gospel) was a key component among the musical influences on teenaged Elvis and when he sang in that Memphis studio, almost 51 years ago, out came a musical melting pot that encapsulated the Elvisized essence of performers as diverse as Dean Martin, Roy Hamilton, Mario Lanza, and a legion of singers -- well known and obscure -- from country, blues, and white and black gospel traditions. The results were original, but hardly in the sense of springing from isolation.

I hope that you've learned something here. Not to be expected, however, given your stubborn clinging to BS above in this thread.

"I wasn't just a fan, I was his brother. He said I was good and I said he was good; we never argued about that. Elvis was a hard worker, dedicated, and God loved him. Last time I saw him was at Graceland. We sang Old Blind Barnabus together, a gospel song. I love him and hope to see him in heaven. There'll never be another like that soul brother." - James Brown

"Elvis, he was unique. And he loved the blues, it was a pity he didn't do more." - B.B. King

"A lot of people have accused Elvis of stealing the black man's music, when in fact, almost every black solo entertainer copied his stage mannerisms from Elvis." - Jackie Wilson

"Elvis was a giant and influenced everyone in the business." - Isaac Hayes

"Elvis had an influence on everybody with his musical approach. He broke the ice for all of us." - Al Green

"Elvis was God-given, there's no other explanation. A Messiah comes around every few thousand years, and Elvis was it this time." - Little Richard

"He was an integrator. Elvis was a blessing. They wouldn't let black music through. He opened the door for black music." - Little Richard

"There just ain't no words to describe him. Elvis was the greatest who ever was, is or ever will be." - Chuck Berry

"It was a Wednesday night in May 1960 that changed my life. I went to bed, sank into my bunk, when all of a sudden out of the bleak stone-block nowhere down the hall from some other inmate's radio I started to hear this song. I'd heard it before, I don't know, twenty-five, thirty times, but it never hit me like it did that night. It was, of all people, Elvis Presley! The song? "It's Now or Never". It became my personal message, meant only for me. "Stop wasting your time, Barry," it said. "When you get out you better change your ways. It's Now or Never!" - Barry White

"I'll tell you what it was: Elvis put some grease in rock & roll - some cooking grease, music like bacon drippin's. He was as funky as a white boy could be, and that freaked out some people, and made a lot more people love him." - George Clinton (Parliament/ Funkadelic)

"Don’t criticize what you don’t understand, son. You never walked in that man’s shoes.” - Elvis Presley

"F*** Chuck ('D,' that is)." - ForrestGump

[FredScuttle]

65. "If I could find a white man who had the Negro sound and the Negro feel...

I'd make a billion dollars"

-Sam Phillips

[ForrestGump]

77. Your point?

Or are you calling Sam Phillips, avid fan of the blues whose lovingly-crafted recordings of Delta blues performers built far more careers than those most commonly associated with Sun (Elvis, Jerry Lee, Carl Perkins, Ike Turner, Roy Orbison, Johnny Cash, Charlie Rich, etc, etc), a rip-off artist? He found that man, anyway, and it was Elvis Presley. So what? Your agenda's transparent, but I challenge you to find one viable reason why Elvis (and others) sounding 'black' was or is a bad thing.

As a poor white who grew up (literally) on the wrong side of the tracks in Depression-era and wartime Mississippi, Elvis had far more in common with the bluesmen of humble origin and African heritage than he had with the likes of Bill Haley, Pat Boone, or any of the Rolling Stones or Beatles. He was, functionally -- for his time and place -- black...if you get my meaning. If not...well, consider this: Sammy Davis Jr was offered "In The Ghetto" but couldn't do it justice and didn't record it; Elvis nailed it, because -- even in 1969, when jewelry encrusted his fingers and Cadillacs rested in rows behind Graceland -- he knew what it was like to live in the projects. Indeed, when the Presleys lived in Mississippi, before heading to Memphis in an act of desperation, they lived in the black section of town. Maybe its hard to imagine, given the concerts and the jumpsuits and the jets and all the rest of it, but Elvis came from the most humble of origins to worldwide fame and adulation (posthumous, as it turns out, too), on a scale beyond what he ever comprehended and beyond what anyone had ever seen before. "American Trilogy" not only made sense to him but resonated with his own life experience, curtailed as it was in many ways at the age of 21. Unfortunately, the journey from rags to riches killed him.






Elvis' birthplace, East Tupelo, MS




Lauderdale Courts housing project, Memphis, TN

[RandomKoolzip]

38. Aren't there bigger problems to worry about?

Jeez......it's just a fucking tune.

No heatlth care, nation at war, religious fanaticism overtaking governemnt, and these guys are up in arms because a high school band farted out a SONG they didn't like?!

I think that there are acceptable degrees of outrage that can be applied here, but shit.....

[jpgray]

41. I think misappropriation of art for propaganda is a serious issue

Reagan with "Born in the USA" (My dislike for Bruce aside), the Kerry-bashing ad that used "Blowin' in the Wind" by Dylan--I disagree with any view that holds these associations exclusively change the meaning of the art to what the misappropriators see fit. And I think it's worth taking the time to disagree.

[RandomKoolzip]

45. I find that shit totally offensive too.....

But I also realize that one of the big reasons behind the anti-liberal backlash of the 00's is the bad taste in the mouth from the "identity politics wars" of the 90's. Too much PC pushes moderates towards the right.


I just think that if the Dems in office were to fight as hard for health care or living wages as hard as they fight for PC abstractions and against misappropriation of art, then we might actually might have a chance at the presidency in the next sixteen years.

[jpgray]

46. That's very true (nt)

[GarySeven]

52. No. We must make sure that Southerners kowtow to Northern values ...

... and forever know that they are lower than the low and be told this on a daily basis. We must put on hold any idea of stopping Bush from building his concentration camps for liberals, of prosecuting every woman who's had an abortion for murder, of craming "Christian" religion into the head of every child, regardless of their creed - all that needs to stop until we are sure that each and every Southerner feels disgust at their own heritage and accepts the view that they and they alone are responsible for all the problems in this country.

[RandomKoolzip]

53. Not to start a flamewar or anything, but the North has been getting

a raw fuckin' deal in the culture wars too. I can't even tell people that I was born in Connecticut without them thinking I'm some sort of blueblood snob born with a silver spoon in his mouth and a summer home in the hamptons. It's bullshit; you ever been to Bridgeport? I was born and grew up and remain working class. And I lived in the south for ten years, so it's not like I haven't heard their grievances before.

And I'm also sick of all the New York bashing I hear and read all the time. It's funny how lots of people in rural areas in the south and all over the country are so pissed off that "terrorists attacked US" but they also don't actually think of New Yorkers (or Pennsylvanians or DCers) as "US." They don't care about the people involved, just the geography.

The people of the areas attacked by terrorists overwhelmingly didn't want Bush to go to war with a country which had nothing to do with the attacks; the people from the rest of the country told the people from the areas who were attacked to shut the fuck up, obey the president, and stop being godless traitors.....Doesn't anyone else see something wrong with that situation?

As much as I distrust South-bashing, North-bashing is just as insidious and just as stupidly reactionary.

[GarySeven]

60. You are absolutely right

and I am convinced that those who do these things might just as well be on Rove's payroll. A divided liberal-dom plays right into his hands.

[jpgray]

56. Who exactly has done what you describe?

Seems to me most politicians try to pander to the Southern sensibility and run from and shun the Northern. The attacks on Southern heritage I know of are from people wanting to discourage public display of symbols they associate with slavery. There is prejudice and discrimination towards the South (some on this board), but the media and politicians in particular have been really lionizing the South as the heart of American "values" for some time now. For example, a Southern accent is considered almost a prerequisite now for a ticket that aspires to national office, whereas being a Northeasterner is seen as a kiss of death.

[GarySeven]

59. Try reading this board sometime.

If any Southerner DARES to defend his or her right to decide for themselves how to feel about their heritage - instead of letting the urban liberal establishment decide for him - he is blasted and re-blasted, called traitor, etc. Fuck the South? How is that going to get us anywhere politically?

There are plenty of Southern / rural liberals and a strong coalition could be built with them. Instead too many people on this board spend all their time finding instances in the news, like the one above, and using them as yet another excuse to bash the South and its rural traditions and culture. Northern / urban liberals spend WAY too much time trying to impose their superior views on other people, especially in the Red States; this is what keeps liberals here from building the power WE ALL need to defeat the growing facist threat.

So never mind about defeating Bush; we must first ensure that all the people in the Red States abjure their rural ways and traditions.

[FredScuttle]

66. So you're OK with the fact that a minstrel show performer wrote "Dixie"?

I'm not trying to be a Northern elitist know-it-all, holier-than-thou...really I'm not. I'm just curious why you tie your heritage to a minstrel show song that's an obvious affront to black Americans in both the North and South.

And, yes, there's plenty of bad history in the North that we bear too.

[GarySeven]

68. The SONG is not an affront to anyone.

It only becomes an affront when performed the way it was originally, in minstrel shows. There is no stage direction written on the piece that requires you to cork up and strut around. The person who wrote it was a product of his times - a time when VERY few people considered blacks equal to whites, north OR south. My grandfather used the ultimate racial slur routinely, even in front of blacks and no one took (or at least showed) offense because they knew he was a product of his times and his ACTIONS showed that however offensive his speech he, himself, was not a racist. A person who uses foul epithets does not have to be a racist; a song that conjures up long-ago images of a lamentable time is not, of itself, racist. This is a paradox of the South that few people seem to be capable of understanding, Southerners included. To lump several things - man, song, times, etc. - under one label is oversimplifying a complex whole and ultimately does disservice to each constituent part.

[FredScuttle]

69. Rationalizing insensitivity (and racism)

does not erase the insensitivity. I'll tell you this....if someone uses a racial slur around me, I'm not waiting for a explanation, I will introduce that person to the 21st century...right quick.

[GarySeven]

70. Tell me exactly how you'd "introduce the 21st century"

to a 93-year-old man who follows the customs of his youth and of long acquaintance without malice in his heart of any kind.

If you do it the way I think you'd do it - and you were anywhere near me - I'd introduce you to a baseball bat.

[FredScuttle]

76. Funny how your aggression is aimed at me

and not any effort to clue your grandpa in that it's probably not a good idea in this day and age to toss out the word "nigger", especially around people of color. Well, I guess you're just letting Gramps be Gramps, eh?

And please tell me again how someone who calls me a nigger has no malice in his heart?

[Red State Rebel]

57. Amen!

"Jeez......it's just a fucking tune." Hello! The only negative connotation that these things have are the ones we assign to them. I, frankly, am tired of everyone jumping to be so indignant over this kind of crap.

[deminflorida]

64. I think Democrats have a lot more shit on our plates than this....

that goes for Blacks and Whites....

"I'm shocked" as well at how easily Rove and Company manages to divide and conquer our asses.

What are we fighting the fucking Civil War over now?

[UndergroundLight4]

71. These are young kids! They are going to make mistakes!

I'd like to see these people complaining about the sour notes try to play an instrument. I played a trombone in my high school band and it is a tough instrument! They shouldn't be bitching about mistakes and should try to relax and enjoy the spontaneity of the music.

[Hand]

72. Heh heh... Try these lyrics!

"Union Dixie"

Away down South in the land of traitors,
Rattlesnakes and alligators,
Right away, come away, right away, come away.
Where cotton's king and men are chattels,
Union boys will win the battles,
Right away, come away, right away, come away.

CHORUS: Then we'll all go down to Dixie,
Away, away,
Each Dixie boy must understand
That he must mind his Uncle Sam,
Away, away,
And we'll all go down to Dixie.
Away, away,
And we'll all go down to Dixie.

I wish I was in Baltimore,
I'd make Secession traitors roar,
Right away, come away, right away, come away.
We'll put the traitors all to rout.
I'll bet my boots we'll whip them out,
Right away, come away, right away, come away.

CHORUS

Oh, may our Stars and Stripes still wave
Forever o'er the free and brave,
Right away, come away, right away, come away.
And let our motto ever be --
"For Union and for Liberty!"
Right away, come away, right away, come away.

CHORUS: Then they'll wish they were in Dixie,
Away, away,
Each Dixie boy must understand
That he must mind his Uncle Sam,
Away, away,
And we'll all go down to Dixie.
Away, away,
And we'll all go down to Dixie.

:nuke: