This Georgian issue has me spinning

[SHRED]

---

First I was led to believe that Russia was the aggressor only to find out that Georgia initiated an attack on South Ossetia wiping out thousands.

What is going on?

http://www.alternet.org/audits/94706/georgia_tries_out_the_bush_war_doctrine,_loses_badly/?page=1

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jk41EEGP5E1_gmWsMeXZlp3gjgXA
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&q=South+Ossetia&btnG=Search+News

[Canuckistanian]

1. Georgia did indeed initiate it

But they must have KNOWN Russia would retaliate.

Looks like Saakashvili got some bad advice.....

[RazBerryBeret]

6. hmmmm....

bad advice? maybe from Condi Rice when she visited in July?
makes me very suspicious....

[rwenos]

2. What's Going On is Tribalism

The Russians have had a powder keg on their hands for many decades. In the Soviet era, I've read Sovietologists called it "the Demographic Time Bomb." Look at the southern tier of the old Soviet states. Most are Muslim-majority countries, or Armenia which has been a target of oppression for centuries. Not as unstable as the Balkans, maybe, but close.

I read about the Georgian alleged atrocities too, and that shook me as it did you. I think it was Winston Churchill who said "in war, the first casualty is truth."

War truly is Hell.

[JVS]

5. Georgia has been Christian since the 4th century.

[rwenos]

8. Okay, Thanks

Your admonition is not really responsive to my post, but I never stated or implied that Georgia was Muslim. Their flag has the Cross of St. George on it.

[JVS]

3. Russia doesn't like people destabilizing shit in their region.

If you fuck around, they'll stomp you.

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. As I understand it, it is the Russians doing the destabilizing.

There is an ethnic Russian minority in Georgia, but Russian majority in Ossetia, so they are agitating for Ossetia to break away from Georgia - thus giving Russia access to Caucus oilfields. Georgia objected and moved to crush the breakaway province, sparking the Russian invasion.

At least, that's the shorthand version as I understand it.

[JVS]

16. The Ossetians aren't Russians, they just seem to like Russia better.

Evidently they feel more comfortable as one of many small minorities in a large Russian context than as one of the 2 biggest minorities within the small Georgian context. Also, North Ossetia is within the Russian borders and has not spent the last 15 years needing peacekeepers the way that South Ossetia has. Georgia launched attacks on thursday killing Ossetians and Russian peacekeepers (there had been Georgian peacekeepers stationed in S Ossetia as well). This was the destabilizing that Russia did not wish to tolerate, so they did what Russia is famous for: cracking down.

[malaise]

4. I suspect this was supposed to help McSame

It sure backfired. Jenkins in the UK Guardian has a great article.

[seemslikeadream]

7. You've been watching CNN

[SHRED]

13. nope

I haven't watched much TV at all, for a longtime.

[Bob Dobbs]

9. Georgia's American and Israeli "advisors" urged their original attack.

It sure didn't work the way the overlords thought it would.

No mcliar bounce, and a humiliating defeat for Georgia, the USA and Israel.

Meanwhile, under media cover of the Olympics, the blockade of Iran is being set in motion.

It seems that busholini inc. is attempting to incite WWIII.

[northernlights]

10. my understanding is...

the rw pundits are saying Russia instigated it and it's of interest to the US because we have troops in Georgia.

but the initial reports were that Georgia took action first, and then Russia struck back and hard.

S. Ossettia separated from Georgia within 2 years of the breakup of the SU, and has been self-governing ever since. The region was overseen by peacekeepers from Russia, Georgia and Ossettia.

The current Prez of Georgia stupidly aligned with W, and is the 3rd largest contributor of troops in the Iraq "coalition." And started "administering" affairs in S. Ossettia in the past couple years. And U.S. troops have been in Georgia training their troops and who knows what else.

Apparently the Georgia prez thought (or was led to believe?) if he poked the big bear with a stick, either 1. it wouldn't dare strike back or 2. his 'merkan trained & equipped troops could stand up to the bear, or 3. the US or NATO or someone would rush to Georgia's defense.

So far, their JUS defense has been strictly neocon hand-wringing and crying about the evil empire and our poor little innocent friend.

Personally, I suspect he was led by W/McCain to poke at Russia to rouse merikan fears of "the Russians are coming!" ahead of the election.

[lovuian]

11. I think Georgia and Bush and Cheney thought they would try to

intimidate Putin

they only royally pissed him off

[Muttocracy]

12. BBC has a good summary and video

here's the Q&A page

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7549736.stm

video background

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7553261.stm

on edit, this part of the Q&A is most relevant to the who-started-this-round question:
"What triggered the latest crisis?

Tension has risen since the election of President Saakashvili in 2004. He offered South Ossetia dialogue and autonomy within a single Georgian state - but in 2006 South Ossetians voted in an unofficial referendum to press their demands for complete independence.

In April 2008 Nato said Georgia would be allowed to join the alliance at some point - angering Russia, which opposes the eastward expansion of Nato. Weeks later, Russia stepped up ties with the separatists in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

In July Russia admitted its fighter jets entered Georgian airspace over South Ossetia to "cool hot heads in Tbilisi". Occasional clashes escalated, until six people were reportedly killed by Georgian shelling. Attempts to reach a ceasefire stuttered.

How did it escalate?

After further exchanges of fire, Georgia launched an aerial bombardment and ground attack on South Ossetia on Thursday 7 August, only hours after the sides agreed a ceasefire. By Friday, Georgian forces were reportedly in control of Tskhinvali.

Russia responded by pouring thousands of troops into South Ossetia, and launching bombing raids both over the province and on targets in the rest of Georgia. Within days, Russia had seized control of Tskhinvali. "

[MrMonk]

14. The "thousands" number originated with the Russians

and was immediately echoed by anyone seeking a thrill or having an axe to grind.
As of this morning, the number (any number) of dead or injured couldn't be verified.

[doc03]

17. I am under the impression Georgia initiated the attack on South

Ossetia with the backing of the US and Israel. I heard a report that there were a couple black skinned fighters with the Georgia troops and they were described as US mercenaries (Blackwater).
If in fact Georgia was the aggressor I am troubled that Obama come out with the statement condemning Russia as the aggressor just as McCain did.

[Bob Dobbs]

18. Obama made the statement with a blackwater gun at his head.

The overlords have let him know who is the real boss.