Yes, Even At the Last Hour, I Still Believe In My Heart That It Will Be Hillary As VP.

[David Zephyr]

I have enumerated more than enough times why I believe Barack Obama benefits greatly by picking Hillary Rodham Clinton to stand at his side this coming Saturday in their home state of Illinois. There are a few things I still haven't said that I want to now that we are at that moment when this amazing young man will make his first momentous choice as our Party's nominee.

Regardless of how passionate those of us who supported Senator Obama in the primaries may still feel about the give and take that took place, there were 18 million other voters on the other side of that coin who felt equally passionate about their candidate who lost. And, there is a world of hurt still out there --- a world of hurt mixed with still the hope that their voices might still echo even now.

Hillary was their voice and I still hear it from my long-time friends who supported her with their money and shoe-leather. That ember is still flickering. And yes, it is mostly from my friends and family members who are women. They are still holding out hope that Barack will pick Hillary. No other of the original candidates other than Barack himself still has that loyalty, that love, that emotional investment as Hillary still does.

Even still as late as yesterday, Hillary that "middle-aged woman" was out on the stump for Barack in New Mexico standing alongside her old friend, Bill Richardson who chose Barack over her. Folks, that takes a lot of grace. There she was urging her supporters to please get behind Barack and telling them that America needs him in the White House. I haven't seen Governor Kaine or Senator Bayh or General Clark or Joe Biden traveling the country, living out of a suitcase, working the crowds for Barack and Michelle. But there she is: the trooper that she is who now has faced her great loss and sucked it all in just as she has had to suck it all in before in the past...and yes, just as women have always had to suck it in, always keeping their smiles frozen on their faces as they step aside when their dreams are not to be. Hillary, that "middle-aged woman" is out there taking yet another one for the team. And whose team is it? Folks, that would be our team. Yours and mine. And I thank Hillary for that. From the bottom of my heart.

Did her husband's team and his cohorts like Mark Penn probably hurt her? No doubt about it. But she knows she was the one in charge and she has acknowledged her loss. Such is the price when your husband is Bill Clinton, who, by the way is still a beloved figure around the world.

If Barack Obama was not going to pick Hillary to stand in unity by his side on Saturday, then I don't believe for a second that he would have dragged his announcement out this far as it would be just too disrespectful and would only rub salt in the wound of that great hurt and disappointment that her supporters and her delegates (49% of the convention) are still feeling. Barack would have tipped his hand before now and surely would not have had Hillary out on the road doing what not one of his other male potential VP candidates would do...stump around the nation for him.

No, Barack Obama has too much class and having been raised by his mom and grand-mom, he would never have permitted Hillary to go out there and keep working the crowds for him if he had not intended to stand proudly with her. And Barack knows just how joyous Denver will be when he and Michelle along with Hillary and her Bill show up in there next week.

Springfield, Illinois, 2008. How incredibly proud President Abraham Lincoln would have felt seeing that the beloved Union that he gave his life to preserve would some 150 years later have an African-American man standing alongside a white woman poised to be President and Vice-President of "the government of the people, by the people and for the people" and that they both would hail from his chosen state of Illinois and right there in Springfield.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. It's totally going to be John Edwards.

It just makes sense.

[Alexander]

6. I am really glad Obama didn't pick him.

[Cha]

34. You're a hooligan! I missed that

whole Edwards thing while I was on the road for two weeks but when we stayed in a condo for a short while they had some Insider show on that was saying "Edwards admitted to the affair"! I never believed it until then and you could have knocked me over with the feather.

I thought about ya'll back on DU..especially one sanctimonious Edwards supporter who constantly ragged on Obama about imagined shit. A week later I picked up a People in the New York City Subway station with Elizabeth on the front with a quote that she was "furious"! I wish it never happened and hope for a healing in that family.

[valerief]

2. In my heart, it's going to be Tom Hanks. Let's all be wrong. nt

[ZinZen]

27. Nope, It will be George Clooney.

Bet you one dollar!

[valerief]

30. I'll bet you a buck three eighty it's

Niecy Nash. I love Clean House!

[Spazito]

69. One day, maybe one day!

Love the man and not just for his looks although they are fine too!

[jesus_of_suburbia]

3. I hope she is, because I believe that's our BEST chance.. but not our ONLY chance.

There are other good choices as well.

Especially Bayh and Clark.

If not, then Biden.


All the others will help us lose.

[Zhade]

58. Polls show a majority of registered voters DON'T want her on his ticket, and she's the best chance?

Odd logic.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

72. Sorry, DU polls don't count. We are talking about the General Election n/t

[Zhade]

98. HAHAHAHA!! It wasn't a DU poll, friend.

Sorry to break it to you, but it was an actual, real-life, weighted poll.

Try again!

[liberal renegade]

4. If he doesn't select her

it's political suicide,imho.

[emilyg]

14. I want Hillary but

I don't think that's what is best for her.

[David Zephyr]

42. Here's hoping you get your wish, emilyg.

Unity in Denver.

[NYCGirl]

16. Funny. IMO it's just the opposite. If he chooses her, it's political suicide. NT

[liberal renegade]

80. Ya think?

IMHO, selecting HRC would make this a very exciting race and give them a landslide victory.

These other so called prospects for VP seem rather BORING!

[NYCGirl]

158. Yep, the most uninvolved wingnut would crawl over broken glass to vote against

another Clinton. It'd be the stimulus they need to overcome the GOP's dislike of Grampy.

[Laurab]

106. If he DOES select her

that's what it would be (imho).

[greguganus]

133. Hillary on the ticket will cause repugs to swarm to the polls. Even dead ones will vote. n/t

[JVS]

5. I'm totally hoping that this is a Linus waiting for the Great Pumpkin situation

[Maven]

7. Thanks for this post.

K/R

[David Zephyr]

22. Appreciated.

I am out there on a limb and it's the right place to be.

[Lucinda]

8. I dont know what O will do

but that was beautifully said. :hi:

[David Zephyr]

26. Thank you, wlucinda.

:hi:

[EV_Ares]

9. Hillary would be ok with me and Biden would be ok with me. I think either

of those two would be the better choices of the names that have been thrown out. Bayh would throw a senate seat to the republicans with Indiana having the republican governor.

Whatever, it is getting close isn't it.

[EV_Ares]

10. Hillary would be ok with me and Biden would be ok with me. I think either

of those two would be the better choices of the names that have been thrown out. Bayh would throw a senate seat to the republicans with Indiana having the republican governor.

Whatever, it is getting close isn't it.

[ruggerson]

the problem isn't Hillary, David, it's her husband

on her own, she's a slam dunk. There's no one who would be a better campaigner nor a more committed Veep.

But her husband (and don't get me wrong, he's the only Dem two termer since FDR and is a mighty historical figure) is not disciplined enough to be involved in a campaign in the 24 hour news cycle. And as an ex-Prez, he doesn't think he has to be. The media would turn him into a neverending sideshow. He hates them and they love to bait him.

If you can figure out a way to send him away for four years, then I agree with you.

Otherwise I'm for Biden and/or Schweitzer and/or Reed.

[Maven]

19. Frankly, I don't think there would be any problem getting him to take a sabbatical until Nov.

He was in the spotlight during Hillary's campaign because they wanted him to be, because they were putting him out front as an asset. It was deliberate. Hillary has her own major following as a politician now and O has plenty of his own star power. Bill would stay out of the picture if asked.

[ruggerson]

24. If they can figure out how to do that

I'm on board. But I don't think it's doable.

[KAZ]

Wow, what a perfect post. Couldn't agree more.

[Barack_America]

23. Excellent post.

Send Bill away for 4 years and burn all records of his business transactions and I'm for Hillary 100%.

[David Zephyr]

87. "On her own, slam dunk"

ruggerson, she is on her own. She is carrying the dreams of millions with her to Denver.

Hillary should not be punished anymore because of Bill.

Let Obama send him as an envoy to the Middle East or to Mars, it's OK with me.

Be nice to me on my beheading on Friday.

[EV_Ares]

11. Hillary would be ok with me and Biden would be ok with me. I think either

of those two would be the better choices of the names that have been thrown out. Bayh would throw a senate seat to the republicans with Indiana having the republican governor.

Whatever, it is getting close isn't it.

[EV_Ares]

12. Hillary would be ok with me and Biden would be ok with me. I think either

of those two would be the better choices of the names that have been thrown out. Bayh would throw a senate seat to the republicans with Indiana having the republican governor.

Whatever, it is getting close isn't it.

[EV_Ares]

13. Hillary would be ok with me and Biden would be ok with me. I think either

of those two would be the better choices of the names that have been thrown out. Bayh would throw a senate seat to the republicans with Indiana having the republican governor.

Whatever, it is getting close isn't it.

[JVS]

17. Could you repeat that?

;-)

[ruggerson]

18. I still can't believe I landed in the middle of it

[David Zephyr]

25. You did.

Now you have been shaddowed. LOL.

Barack can handle Bill Clinton and probably put him to good work. Special envoy to the Middle East.

We can't hold Bill against Hillary.

[EV_Ares]

79. Hey, sorry, just got back, I don't know why that went 3 times, eom

[DarthDem]

15. The Arguments Against Her

. . . are all seriously flawed. In fact, the people who stand the be the most upset about her being picked are a vocal portion of DU. Oh, and Kos. Oh, and the Goopers. They really don't want to have to deal with her.

[David Zephyr]

29. I agree.

We need a united base. And we need an enthusiastic united base.

[styersc]

47. I've been reading for many months how Obama is the nominee

and we should support him without question, even if it means abandoning principle. I'm certain that every Obama supporter on DU would vote for the ticket even if Hillary is the VP.

Or does the party loyalty demand only apply to the supporters of other candidates and Obama supporters are immune?

[EV_Ares]

81. My view is that Barack is the nominee and if he picks her then she is the

Dem nominee by his choice. I support whoever he picks.

[Alexander]

20. I'm convinced it will be Clark.

Now more than ever.

[David Zephyr]

90. And you make a lot of strong arguments for it.

Alexander, if I am beheaded here on Friday, put in one good word for me. LOL.

[earthlover]

21. Good post. Very covincing. Except....

When you said..."No, Barack Obama has too much class and having been raised by his mom and grand-mom, he would never have permitted Hillary to go out there and keep working the crowds for him if he had not intended to stand proudly with her."

Sorry, but what you are implying....and this is totally disrespectful towards Hillary.....is that the only reason Hillary is working the crowds for Obama is to be the VP and if she is not rewarded the VP in return for her efforts Obama has no class.

This is disrespectful towards Hillary because it implies she is not a true Democrat, that she would not stand by her party's nominee unless she had some personal gain to do so.

Maybe you know hillary better than i do. I would prefer to view Hillary as someone who doesn't want McCain to win, regardless of whether she is personally VP or not. If Hillary is who you imply she is, I hope she does not get the nod. We don't need that.

You WERE very convincing, except for that.

I would not object to a Hillary VP, in spite of what you said

[asjr]

28. If Obama picks Hillary I will be

very proud. I have always liked her.

[David Zephyr]

41. It unifies the entire party and unites the base.

None other than Abraham Lincoln said that a house divided can not stand. Thanks for weighing in, asjr.

[Arugula Latte]

31. Richardson chose Obama over her, but she aligned herself with McCain against Obama.

She impugned Obama's patriotism. That was unforgivable, IMO.

[TexasObserver]

32. Yes, we know, because you have started 30 threads about it.

Maybe more.

WE get it. You think it will be Hillary for VP.

[DarthDem]

33. Guess What?

We like freedom of speech. We're Democrats. So while I find your post moronic and unhelpful, I'll refrain from obnoxiously telling you to shut up. Kthanksbai.

[TexasObserver]

35. Guess what? When someone posts the same topic over and over ....

... it's not about the topic, it's about the poster.

[Metric System]

113. Tell that to the Usual Suspects (they know who they are).

[David Zephyr]

36. Is it really 30?

You'll get on board soon enough now.

[scheming daemons]

61. You're setting yourself up for a major emotional disappointment

[David Zephyr]

70. Perhaps. But my support of Obama in the primaries was vindicated.

Hillary is not our enemy. She's out campaigning for Barack.

[golddigger]

37. Nah! It will be Nancy Pelosi...

[JackORoses]

38. your emotional attachment has clouded your judgment

if you don't start preparing yourself now, this is really going to hurt.

[Ichingcarpenter]

39. The Denise Show on SNL

http://www.truveo.com/The-Denise-Show/id/2505823673

The one with Adam Sandler

[JackORoses]

45. ahahahahaha!

Okay, uh, let's move on to this week's Denise Trivia Question. The question is: Last summer when Denise and I took her niece to Chuck E. Cheese, how long did Denise say we'd be together? The answer is: Forever.

[KoKo]

51. I've never seen Zephyr to be a Clinton Supporter...in all my years here, though...

So...it might be something he is seeing beyond. :shrug:

[Beacool]

40. I wish that I had your faith my friend, but I don't see it.

The LW leadership in the party don't want it (Kennedy, Kerry, Carter, Dean, Pelosi, etc.), his staffers don't think that they need her and I think that Obama feels the same way.

Of course, everyone involved could put away their gigantic egos and think what would unite the party, but that would be asking too much. That's always been the Democratic party, cut our noses to spite ourselves.

:shrug:

[David Zephyr]

62. Beacool

I've stuck my neck out and if it's cut off, please throw a flower when I'm beheaded here on Friday.

Seriously, thank you. And I hope we don't cut off our nose to spite ourselves. :hi:

[Beacool]

78. I will do more than that, I will buy you a whole crown of flowers.

I was remiss in mentioning that your post brought me to tears. They don't get it here, they don't get the type of passion that she inspires in her supporters. I saw it while campaigning.

Despite the constant media drumming for her to get out of the race, despite the left wingers in the party leadership murmuring the same, despite the LW blogs spewing as much hate as the Freepers; she won most primaries from March through June, and won all of them (except for IN) by 10% or more.

In Reading, PA alone we had volunteers from CA, MI, AR, CO, FL, KS, TX, NJ and of course NY. The three people from FL had campaigned in several states and brought with them crates of oranges to hand out while canvassing, they said that they had been a hit in OH and had gotten plenty of votes thanks to those oranges. We had one superdelegate from KS who Bill had called in person and asked for her help. There was a doctor from Dallas who put his practice on hold and came to help out because he believed so much in her healthcare plan. One night two hispanic men came in and asked for "their people". As it turns out, they were Mexican-American professionals and business people who had chartered a plane from TX. There were 40 of them and spread out through several cities in PA. We had bus loads who came from NY and plenty of people like me who came from NJ every weekend for weeks.

We had teachers, high school kids, union guys, nurses, professionals, working class folks who came between shifts, office workers who came after 5 and retired people. They were white, black, hispanic, asian, indian and any combination of the above.

Does anyone think that people who were so inspired by a candidate will be satisfied by a condescending greek chorus of "get over it"???

Hell, no!!!

[David Zephyr]

82. Now you are talking!

And your post simply begs this question: "How do we possibly turn away so much enthusiasm, so much love, so much heart?" If we do, we are simply fools.

We can tap all the fervor and love that Obama has with that for Hillary and we sweep every state in this country except for Utah...and you never know there, either.

:hi:

[Beacool]

91. Yes, but it won't happen.

The LW leadership doesn't want her and neither do Obama's handlers. They think that the left is going to win them the WH. They forget that the reason that Bill was elected twice was precisely because he was a centrist. Unless Hillary is also on the ticket, I don't see our party as being united before November.

[Naturyl]

43. You make a detailed case...

But it's not going to be Clinton. It's just not.

[Spider Jerusalem]

44. Except...it DOESN'T unify the entire party.

A lot of Democrats can't STAND Hillary Clinton. I am sorry that you don't seem to be able to wrap your mind around this, but it is a fact. If she were as admired and respected as you seem to think she is, she'd have won the nomination in a cakewalk. She has too many negatives, not least of which are her intemperate attacks on Obama and praise for John McCain during the primaries.

[KoKo]

48. She got a lot of votes....and maybe those voters didn't know what the Clintons did to undermine

those of us on the Left...but then "Pew Research Poll" just showed Americans are ignorant and dumbed down after a couple of decades of Fox News and Murdoch and Ailes control.

What can one expect of people so clueless and uninformed who care so little about their future they would still even look at ANY REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE...as a "possible" alternative?

Sports and Fundie Churches RULE...It's going to take decades to undo the influence. We might not pull it it this time...and have to keep on at what we've been doing to work for REAL CHANGE... :shrug:

It's looking like that to this DU'er...{who has been here a long time)...anyway. Sadly............

[Zhade]

63. Plus, POLLS SHOW A MAJORITY OF REGISTERED VOTERS DO NOT WANT HER ON HIS TICKET.

Not only does Obama NOT need her to win, she'd makes it LESS likely!

Then there's her support for the illegal war, her lies about Tuzla/NAFTA, her endorsement of mcLame over Obama...

Nope. Not going to be her. Obama's too smart for that trap.

[Beacool]

89. A lot of people can't stand Obama, but will suck it in and vote for him.

Particularly if Hillary is also on the ticket. It works both ways.

:shrug:

[Spider Jerusalem]

111. Sorry...

but anyone who would rather vote for McCain if Hillary isn't on the ticket is no Democrat; those people would be more aptly described as Clinton personality cultists. And their numbers are very small in comparison to the number of people who WILL vote for Obama; notice that Obama has had a consistent lead in national polling, with occasional ties, but has not once been behind McCain since becoming preumptive Democratic nominee. That in itself tells me that there really AREN"T 'a lot of people' who can't stand Obama and won't vote for him without Hillary on the ticket.

[Beacool]

118. No, I think others are the cultists.

Face it, there are plenty of people who may drag themselves to the voting booth, but will hold their nose when they vote for Obama.

[Spider Jerusalem]

135. So, are you saying you think Obama supporters are cultists?

Let's just be perfectly clear about that, shall we? (He IS the nominee of the party, and this IS a Democratic forum; I think you might wish to choose your words more carefully.)

[Beacool]

149. Isn't that how you described some of Hillary's supporters?

May I remind you that she too is a Democrat.

[Spider Jerusalem]

152. Yes, it is, because that's what they are.

May I remind you that she isn't the Democratic Party's presidential nominee?

[Metric System]

116. Her favorability rating among Dems is higher than...I won't complete that for the sake of unity

[KoKo]

46. I don't think the "Handlers" will allow that. But, I understand what you say...

and what you say you are hearing from those around you.

I also think that for Obama to pick Sibellius (which is heavily rumored here on DU) would be such a slap in the face to those who voted for Hillary it would finish the Dem Party. But, I think Obama's handlers are looking for something very different.

But, who knows... We will know when we know. I don't like any of the supposed "Picks" mentioned so far as his VEEP...

I probably could handle Tim Kaine the best. But, I just know that like Gore was forced to choose Lieberman and Kerry to pick Edwards...the "pick" was probably out of Obama's ability to have a say.

It's the "shoot yourself in the foot" party, sometimes. But, it's all about Politics and "Bidness" in the end...isn't it.

[David Zephyr]

54. Thanks KoKo01

You write:

"But, I understand what you say...and what you say you are hearing from those around you." True. Just this week we ran into two of our friends at an organic market here in SoCal. Both to these life-long Democratic women saw us coming and stuck their hands out as if to cast a spell and began saying "We are for Hillary, David. We are for Hillary!" Before I could even say "hi". These are great friends who I treasure. My daughter, my sister, my sister-in-law, my best friend's wife. Hillary still has their hearts. It is what inspired me to write these words today. I can not possibly be alone.

And you also write: "I also think that for Obama to pick Sibellius (which is heavily rumored here on DU) would be such a slap in the face to those who voted for Hillary it would finish the Dem Party." Here we really agree. It would just be horrible. The very worst. It would not play well in Denver. And thanks for spelling out what even I wouldn't have said, but you did.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

49. I have been no Hillary fan - probably an understatement. But I

think picking her now might be very wise. It would energize the entire party.

[David Zephyr]

55. LPYB.

God knows I savaged the Clintons, but this is Hillary now without Bill and I agree with you "it would energize the party." It puts the pieces back together.

[verges]

147. The party it would energize

the most would be the GOP!

[KoKo]

50. BTW, I Hear Al Gore is Speaking on Thursday in the Stadium...Can you IMAGINE...OBAMA//HILLARY/GORE

all standing in UNISON...for the DEM PARTY WIN in '08? Wouldn't that be SPECTACULAR!

Wouldn't it be..?? But, it's fantasy... even though it would be so incredible...

[David Zephyr]

57. Yes, it would be spectacular.

We need this unity, KoKo01. Spectacular!

[paulk]

52. If Obama plans on "unity" being more than just another slogan

he'll choose Hillary as his running mate.

And concerning Bill, I can think of worse things than having the most successful Democratic President since FDR campaigning for you.

[David Zephyr]

59. Thank you paulk.

Not a popular position to take around here, but I think it's the mature and wise position. Thanks.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[David Zephyr]

68. Paulk is a solid and good Democrat.

The primaries are over. I probably chased some of Hillary's supporters away from here myself in trumpeting Obama.

Hillary is out campaigning for Obama. What more could you want from her?

[WeDidIt]

53. It would jnot surprise me if he did.

Can oyu imagine, totally head faking every pundit in the business who dismissed the possibility of hillary weeks ago?

[David Zephyr]

73. Yes. I am counting on it, IWantAnyDem

They would have fooled everyone and sucker punched McCain.

[Zhade]

56. Bookmarked for when it's not.

NT!

[scheming daemons]

60. Already booked his last dissertation on the subject last week....

Like someone upthread said..... if he doesn't emotionally prepare himself for the disappointment now, it is going to be tough on him.


It's not her, David. You need to come to grips with that.

[davidpdx]

163. I'm still waiting on him to take your bet

of a $100. One other person threw in $100 and I'll put in another $50 it's not Hillary.

So that's a total of $350 in donations for the campaign. Either way, Obama's campaign gets $350 from it.

So David, will you take the offer or not?

[David Zephyr]

66. Et tu?

I know I'm in a great minority here, but this Obama supporter can't see it any other way. I don't think you'll need the bookmark or even a torch, but just in case I'm in Frankenstein's castle.

[Zhade]

99. I just don't see it happening.

NT!

[InvisibleTouch]

64. I would be delighted, but am not holding my breath.

Been disappointed enough times already this election season. Not crushed-into-the-dust disappointed, like after the 2004 debacle, but bummed, none the less. So, while I would be thrilled and delighted with Hillary, I'm not seriously expecting it, and will be "okay" with pretty much whomever Obama picks.

[David Zephyr]

75. Here's hoping you will be delighted.

InvisibleTouch, she is the correct choice. She ran the race and together they unite the entire party.

[InvisibleTouch]

96. Oh, I agree with you, but...

...what's obvious to us isn't always the way things fall out in practice. We shall see, I guess!

[jillan]

67. I think there is one reason, and only one reason, that is keeping him from picking her.

Bill.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

71. Sorry, but I've personally seen polls that show her KILLING us with Independents.

We've got to get those votes, especially in swing states. There is still an unfortunate and irrational swath of Hillary Clinton hatred out there.

[paulk]

119. post the polls, then

because I've seen several that say the opposite -

"According to the July 22-23 Fox/Opinion Dynamics poll, in an Obama-McCain head-on match-up, Sen. Obama gets just 74% of the Democrats and 6% of the Republicans. With Sen. Clinton as his running mate vs. a McCain-Romney ticket, Sen. Obama's Democratic vote goes up to 86%--a significant 12% increase. As for Republican voters, rather than getting "revved up" because of Hillary's presence on the ticket, there was no effect at all: The Obama-Clinton ticket gains 3% (from 6% to 9% among Republicans), whereas McCain-Romney gains the same 3% (from 82% to 85%).

So what about independents? An Obama-Clinton ticket appears to gain some strength in this critical swing-voter group. With an Obama-McCain head-on contest, independents are evenly divided, 32%-30%, with Sen. Obama over Sen. McCain. But with an Obama-Clinton ticket vs. a McCain-Romney ticket, the independents favor Obama-Clinton 38%-30%--a statistically significant 6% increase in a crucial voter group."

[mrreowwr_kittty]

132. Your polls depend on Romney being McCain's pick. What if it's someone else?

The ones I've seen are from political consultants and aren't online. They were commissioned by a very well-funded organization and are extremely comprehensive. Not only does Hillary hurt the Presidential ticket in swing states, she even hurts down ticket races. This was a month ago and things might have changed.

[paulk]

136. how convenient

I don't believe a word of it.

[AmericanUnity]

74. I'LL SUPPORT HER, BUT YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THE DAMAGE SHE DID BY HANGING IN TOO LONG

[liberal renegade]

86. Damage?

please esplain yourself.

[Beacool]

151. You know, the usual story.

She stayed too long, she hurt him by pointing out his lack of experience, she preferred McCain (total B.S,), she threw the kitchen sink at him, bla, bla, bla..............

[adoraz]

76. I am against Hillary being on the ticket... but at this point

there is no reason for me to argue. Obama has made his decision already anyways.

[Erin Elizabeth]

77. Paris Hilton has a better shot than Clinton.

Seriously.

It's SO not going to be Clinton.

[liberal renegade]

83. I want some of what your smoking.

[Erin Elizabeth]

93. Do you mean

"I want some of what you're smoking?"

I'm not smoking a thing. I'm saying Clinton doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of being VP.

[McCamy Taylor]

84. On Countdown, Wolffe who basically works for the Obama campaign said

it would be someone who can represent the core principles of the campaign. To my way of thinking that means a base pleaser which means either Dodd, who is Mr. Integrity and who will remind everyone of how pure and clean the Obama campaign is supposed to be or Clinton, who is so careful in what she says, that you know that she will never stray off message. If the team has agreed on a campaign theme, she will be out there pushing it, and she will never forget what she is supposed to be saying. Both Dodd and Clinton will please the Dem base----the real base---mightily. John Edwards might have except for his marital problems.

Biden is not a team player, so he will not represent the core principles of the campaign.

Richardson is also a bit of a rogue player. He will say what he wants when he wants to say it. For one thing, he has his own presidential aspirations to think of.

The other two add nothing to the core principles---they are there to appeal to the independents. The base will not be revved up by them.

Dodd would make a great VP and I am not sure why no one has thought of him. He is Hillary in a suit. Hillary would also make a great VP. Both of them fit the characteristics Wolffe described---and I will bet a nickel Wolffe already knows.

[Ichingcarpenter]

85. Bill Clinton will not disclose his finance statements for vetting- Daily Telegraph

He wouldn't do it so Hillary is out.

[Zhade]

100. "Clinton, who is so careful in what she says" - like lying about Tuzla?

Finally, a clinton supporter who admits she knew exactly what she was saying.

[CampDem]

88. Thank you for this well articulated, thoughtful post. It's nuanced even

I think you are right about the timing of the announcement indicating Obama has chosen Hillary.

It will be a joyous convention and an excellent display of the power of our Democratic party to include everyone, unite everyone, and heal ourselves.

We will win in Nov and Obama and Hillary will move on to healing the nation.

Bye Bye rethugs, oh, and don't let the door hit your a** on the way out!

:kick: :hi:

[Beacool]

92. Flame away, I got my asbestos suit on,

but Karl Rove just gave a good explanation why if he were advising Obama he would tell him to pick Hillary. He said that in other elections he might have considered someone like Biden (foreign policy experience) or Kaine - Bayh (to bring in their state), but that in this election he would choose someone who would be ready to be president if need be. He said that when people looked at Hillary they saw someone who could be president and that she would be the best choice for Obama.

For McCain he picked Romney.

[Erin Elizabeth]

94. Does it tell you anything that Karl Rove wants Obama

to pick Hillary and that people like Pat Buchanan practically orgasm at the very suggestion?

It should. It's their only hope for energizing the currently apathetic republican party against the Democrats. Those guys know people would turn out in droves for the chance to deny something to Hillary Clinton. To any Clinton.

[Beacool]

97. Nope, you are wrong.

Go to the RW sites. They are afraid that if Obama picks Hillary, McCain will lose. They are already galvanized to vote against Obama, they despise and fear him far more than either Clinton.

[David Zephyr]

102. And you are correct.

The very places where Obama is still polling weakly is precisely where she polls well.

I am one of those lefties who has enough brains to know that we can not take the White House without some centrists. It takes two wings to fly.

I want to win. Stick by your guns, Beacool!

[Beacool]

109. Thanks David!!!

Ahhhhhh (big sigh), these lefties are a hard nut to crack. They are by far too stubborn to see the light.

:hug:

[Zhade]

104. We don't visit PUMA sites, sorry.

NT!

[Beacool]

107. Wiseguy, keep spreading the hate and I will personally pull out

your dragon's wings.

:7

[Erin Elizabeth]

105. HAHAHAHA

So you think Karl Rove et al are advising Obama to do something they DON'T want him to do? Yeah, right.

[Beacool]

108. Laugh away, Rove may be a lower form of life,

but he knows how to get people elected. How else would Chimpie have gotten reelected?

[Erin Elizabeth]

110. And why does he want to HELP Obama get elected?

You are assuming:

a) he is telling the truth when he says Hillary would be a great choice

b) he really wants Obama to pick Hillary

c) picking Hillary would cause Obama to win.

Now tell me why in the hell Karl Rove, Pat Buchanan and all these others would give Obama GOOD advice that would cause him to win if he followed it?

Sorry, but they wouldn't. They DON'T WANT A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT. Period. Full stop. They get all excited over the idea of Clinton as VP and keep trying to keep the idea alive because it's just about the only shot McCain would have of winning and THEY KNOW IT.

[Beacool]

114. He's an analyst at FOX now and he was asked by Colmes

who he would recommend for either candidate. He went into a detailed analysis of his two picks for each candidate. Rove is a despicable creep, but he knows his politics.

Believe what you want, but I think that it was sound advice. Take some time and read the RW blogs, also listen to talk radio one afternoon and hear what people have to say. They dislike Obama far more than the Clintons and she's the one VP choice that they fear the most. They don't think that McCain would have a chance against an Obama/Clinton ticket.

[Erin Elizabeth]

124. What he said fit nicely into what you already believe

so of course you think it's sound advice. You weren't listening with any objectivity. Rove et al would never give sound advice to a Democrat.

It's the same way I'd LOVE for McCain to choose someone like Lieberman to be on his ticket. I'd jump and dance if he did that.

No thanks to reading right wing blogs, why the hell would I want to do that? Clinton being the VP pick is not going to happen and was never going to happen.

[Metric System]

123. Rove wants Dems to be suspicious just like you are right now. You're thinking- if Rove thinks

Hillary as VP is a good idea, then obviously it mustn't be. And THAT kind of reaction is what he's counting on.

[Metric System]

122. As I explained upthread, you're reacting exactly the way Rove wants you to. As I posted:

He knows by bringing up the best VP choice many on the left will scratch their heads and assume an ulterior motive. And he has an ulterior motive but it's not what you think it is. He wants reactions and suspicions just like yours so that people will speak against having Hillary as VP. After all, if Rove thinks it's good, it can't be! Don't worry, Rove knows what kind of reaction Dems will have when they hear him giving VP advice. He's counting on it.

[Metric System]

120. And you're reacting just as Rove wants you to. He knows by bringing up the best VP choice many on

the left will scratch their heads and assume an ulterior motive. And he has an ulterior motive but it's not what you think it is. He wants reactions and suspicions just like yours so that people will speak against having Hillary as VP. After all, if Rove thinks it's good, it can't be! Don't worry, Rove knows what kind of reaction Dems will have when they hear him giving VP advice. He's counting on it.

[Erin Elizabeth]

125. How many times are you going to say that?

Clinton is not a good choice for VP no matter what Karl Fucking Rove says. Since when do we take advice from that man, anyway?

My God. Is this DU or did I accidentally land on some right wing site?

[Metric System]

131. I think you're proving my point. And I don't understand you're last comment. Do you mean rooting for

Hillary as VP makes us right-wingers? Or that because Rove has said he thinks she'd be the best choice, rooting for Hillary now means taking advice from Rove?

[Erin Elizabeth]

134. Y'all are QUOTING Karl Rove and saying he's giving good

advice to the Dem candidate. Just think about that for a second. What the hell motivation does he have to make things good for Dems?

ROFL. Where's the Twilight Zone music? You guys need some.

You're right down below, you know. It's not going to be Hillary. It never was. Why would Obama pick her after she said McCain would make a better president than he would? He might as well gift-wrap a great ad and hand it over to the Republicans to run over and over that his own VP thought McCain was better than him.

Geez Louise, you guys must think Obama is a blithering idiot or something.

[Metric System]

137. Of course not. But some of his supporters? Well...

[Erin Elizabeth]

141. You do think he's an idiot. He'd HAVE to be an idiot to choose

someone for his VP who is on record as having said his OPPONENT would make a better president.

If I were running against someone who chose that person for their VP, I would run her saying that quote in an ad and I'd run it nationally and over and over and over again. Hey, the guy's own VP pick even thinks I'd make a better choice, so vote for me.

Easy-peasy-pie.

So yeah, you do think Obama's an idiot if you think he should pick Clinton.

[WillyT]

95. Gotta Ask...

How Did Bill Get Around The VP Vetting Process ???

:shrug:

[David Zephyr]

115. Maybe because he was vetted by the voters and won two national elections.

Bottom line: Bill Clinton won election while the Democrats (my party) seem to lose every fucking one of the

[Erin Elizabeth]

129. That's not the kind of vetting he's talking about.

I think you know that.

[greguganus]

153. That was pre-library donor list. n/t

[cynatnite]

101. I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath...

I'd also cheer for Feingold. He'd be great, too.

My RW mom said she'd vote for Obama if he picked Caroline Kennedy. I don't know much about her politics, but she does seem to be intelligent and compassionate. I'd cheer for her, too.

Everyone else that's been named...they don't excite me all that much.

[Top Cat]

103. I hope not bad choice

[TheKentuckian]

117. Barack can go with a 35 year old turnip

from South Dakota and I'm still onboard.

Obama could be unseated for Hillary, and I'd still be down for the cause.

Both could get tossed for Gore and I'd still be gung-ho.

Anyone not all in with whoever is on the ticket openly supports the destruction of the United States.

We don't have the luxury of the baby games.

None of these rich fucks matters, the American people matter. What actual difference does it make who the standard bearer is as long as they doesn't don't drop the flag.

How can anyone NOT enthusiastically the Democratic nominee? Why can't we all keep our eyes on the real prize-AMERICA!!!

[Metric System]

112. I REALLY want Hillary for VP. But he won't pick her. And that makes me sad more than angry. When you

look at polls she helps him the most as VP and I truly believe it would guarantee victory in November. But, like I said, it won't happen and I won't be surprised. But I will be sad.

[greguganus]

128. Cheer up. At least the sniper fire didn't get her overseas. n/t

[Metric System]

138. If Obama loses, he can thank supporters like you.

[greguganus]

144. No he can thank Hillary if she's on the ticket. n/t

[Erin Elizabeth]

146. Why would Obama lose because a person

made a comment on the internet about Hillary's lie about being shot at in Bosnia?

:crazy:

[greguganus]

150. Now playing: "The Stepford Supporters". Rated LOL n/t

[David Zephyr]

159. Stepford?

Irwin Shaw?

[JVS]

155. You realize what the implication of making such statements is, don't you?

[Erin Elizabeth]

130. You want her so badly you are willing to take advice from

Karl Rove.

[Metric System]

139. And you.

[Erin Elizabeth]

142. And I what?

[greguganus]

140. Wait till Rush starts pushing for Hillary. They will be kissing his ring. n/t

[Erin Elizabeth]

143. Yep. Then it'll be "oh well Rush Limbaugh gives

sound advice on this, you guys!" :crazy:

Dear Lord. I think I've seen it all now.

[Ichingcarpenter]

145. Like I said

its like a sad version of the Denise Show.

[flamingdem]

121. IT'S KAINE BELIEVE ME - THEY ARE BEST BUDDIES - Virginia, etc., tellin' ya nt

[greguganus]

126. I believe in my heart it will NOT be hillary. She gives me heartburn. n/t

[wisteria]

127. Maybe you are right. n/t

[jobycom]

148. So do I, but who knows? nt

[BlooInBloo]

154. Hell, I still think Clinton will win the nomination.

:rofl:

[Phoonzang]

156. Bah, it'll be Schweitzer.......

*takes another puff* *passes to the right*

[Prophet 451]

157. Not going to happen

Personally, I question whether picking Hillary would really be an advantage. Maybe it would, I don't know and for the record, I'd be fine if Obama did pick her. What annoys me is the constant "18 million" refrain. Firstly, it's irrelevant because Hillary didn't win and secondly, it speaks of a sense of entitlement, a kind of "I'll only vote for you if you do as I say". Sure, there's a decent case to be made for picking Hillary as VP but "18 million" (the vast majority of whom will vote for Obama anyway) isn't it.

[Skwmom]

160. Well, based on the actions of the Clintons and their supporters, it sure does seem

like they are making a last minute push for it. A lot of the articles sound like public threats to me (as in if it's not Hillary we are working for McCain).

[SeaLyons]

161. I believe Obama will make a very intelligent decision

and pick HILLARY for VP. That is what I hope happens.

[clovis29]

162. No, but it would be great if she was

The acrimony is palpable.

He needs a straight, square, "safe" male to get the middle ground.