Why aren't we talking about IRS collection of political affiliation data?

[salin]

Two related items came out yesterday about data collected in 20 states on tax payers (for a database) that included political affiliation. The data was collected by a vendor (initially refered to as 'vendors/contractors') - and was supposedly "unsolicited". The head of the Union raised the issue to a high-up in the IRS who claimed --- this shouldn't be happening... and next there is a statement saying this data is being scrubbed, and the vendor will no longer collect such data for the database (used for determining who to do IRS audits upon, and for going after delinquent taxes).

Props for Sen. Murray for raising the issue - which appears to be the only reason the story was carried at all.

But this points out a very big set of questions: WHO was the vendor, WHO hired that vendor, and WHY was this information included in the first place?

The item slipped in and out of the news very quickly - and off the DU discussion boards almost as quickly. We should be SCREAMING about this. How long was this data collected. Did any of the data fall into the hands of private contractor collectors (didn't realize that we had outsourced collection of deliquent taxes)?

Frankly - a) we need answers; b) while it could be an innocent mistake - it doesn't make sense that the additional resources of finding that data would be expended by the contractor unless it was requested; and c) these days there is a funny bit of overlap among govt contracts and power players in the GOP's DC.

Further more - loop it together with the other abuse of power related to privacy issues that are spilling out from the WH - there is a resonance of distaste for such stories - and a pattern of abuse of power that has an exceptional potential for resonating a discomfort in the public psyche.

Perusing news.google I found that most of the items from yesterday stemmed from two writers articles, linked below:

IRS collects political links of taxpayers
Les Blumenthal / McClatchy News Service
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060...

IRS to Strip Political Info From Databases
By MARY DALRYMPLE

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-irs-po...

states where data was collected and included in the taxpayers database:
Deputy IRS Commissioner John Dalrymple told National Treasury Employees Union President Colleen Kelly that "his information is appropriately used to locate information on taxpayers whose accounts are delinquent." According to the Detroit News, the IRS asked the vendor to stop collecting political data in December; Kelly inquired about the practice in December. States affected are Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and Wisconsin.

from this link: http://uspolitics.about.com/b/a/207552.htm

[OregonBlue]

1. I've been wondering the same thing. Sent a copy of the Tacoma

News Tribune story to CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WP, etc. with those very questions. They violated the constitution and NO ONE is reporting it? Call Senator Murray's office and ask her to raise the issue over and over? Surely, someone must think this is important.

Where's Dean, Conyers, Kerry, etc., on this one!!

[salin]

2. Yes, Sen. Murray's office is a great place to start

let her know there is great support for her inquiry, and a great deal of interest, and worry. Not sure but this might fall under Henry Waxman's subcommittee as well.

[salin]

3. I find this story/item very disturbing

taken with the 'degrees of seperation' part of the NSA spying story and what we know about data mining... I keep getting tingles up and down my spine. I am not one who trends tin foil. However these stories, taken together have started whispering in my ear... as if these folks were caught before they could fully implement the full use of the govt as an implement of a one-party state... the word Stasi keeps whispering through my ear. I have always laughed off the suggestion that these folks would just declare martial law and stop holding elections or any other form of creating a police state. And my rationale mind still shrugs that off - we are too large of a population with too long of a history of freedom for this to occur - and our military just isn't that large. Nonetheless, these instances of abuse of power - are really starting to stack up - and go far beyond politics as usual.

[Bonobo]

4. I called my Congressman and screamed (figuratively) for Impeachment

when I read about the IRS collection of political affiliation info. This is beyond serious. Kicked and nominated!

[salin]

5. I am surprised at the lack of coverage...

folks may never even know - let alone scream about this.

[Bonobo]

18. Congressman's aid had not heard it til I told him...sigh

[salin]

23. Then it is an especially darn good thing

that you called - you put it on their radar screen. :thumbsup:

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. I think we have a right to know who the vendor was.

It should be public record information. Just a simple FOIA away.

[bonito]

7. My guess choisepoint or seisint, remember the matrix

but I think seisint was bought buy lexis nexis, part of reed elsevier's giants.

[salin]

8. yesterday I tried a little google

I describe my efforts and confusing finds at the bottom of the linked thread - and Choicepoint does come up - still just speculative.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2023959

[wildbilln864]

9. What I'd like to know...

Is why Harry Reid, our so called minority leader isn't supporting John Conyers' efforts to make George and Cheney accountable for their crimes? Now he has stated that he doesn't support impeachment therefore rendering Conyers's efforts powerless. That is unless other democratic leaders join with Conyers and support his bills.
Please go to Reid's site(http://giveemhellharry.com/blog/67/pat-robertson) and ask that he support Conyers or these criminals will continue to destroy this country. Also visit http://conyersblog.us
Thank you.

[wildbilln864]

11. here's a post from another blog...

that gets to the heart of our problem. John Conyers is a brave man and has taken steps to to hold this administration accountable but he need support he's not getting. Here's a snip from a poster on his blog...

Comment #5: Pissed Off American said on 1/5/06 @ 10:50pm ET...

Representative Conyers, I am one of those people that has lamented the ineffectiveness of the letters. You have explained the reasoning behind these letters clearly, and I respect the reasoning, and condone and appreciate the action. However, in your comment you refer to "we democrats". Respectfully I would like to point out that the democrats that are RECOGNIZED by the majority of American citizens are absent as signators of the majority of these letters. For this reason it is an easy matter for the media to minimize or even ignore the sending of these letters, as well as ignore the Administratiion's refusal to provide answers. I do NOT bemoan the practice of sending the letters. What I do bemoan is the apparent DISENGAGEMENT of the publically recognized "democratic leadership". Certainly the efforts and patriotism of the signers is laudable and should be recognized. And please do not take my comments as an attempt to belittle or minimize the important role the signers, (listed below), are serving in attempting to inform the public of the myriad of transgressions that the Bush Administration is suffering upon our nation. But I truly lament the lack of courage or engagement that is seemingly the ill concieved tactic of the more readily recognizable names comprising the leadership of the so called "opposition party". Without their support, and their deep pockets, I see no hope of your efforts recieving the exposure that is required to nurture public support. I can't help but imagine, that, although you cannot publically state your feelings, you must be extremely dissappointed in the reluctance of so many of your colleagues to join you in launching an effective and forceful opposition to the Bush Administration and its criminal policies. I am sure that you read this blog, and are aware of my vehement opinion that we MUST demand that our Democratic leadership take a more forceful stand and seek a higher media profile in order to dislodge the Bush Administration from its many tentacled hold upon ALL BRANCHES of our government. As our "leaders" mewl and posture, with few exceptions, the Bush Administration places more and more ringers in positions of power, and the transgressions get more blatant and alarming, such as the NSA wiretaps, or the recess appointments to the Election commission.

God bless you and your courage, and I truly hope that yours is the kind of courage we can expect to see displayed, SOON, by ALL of your colleagues. For I fear, if such courage is not forthcoming, your efforts are for naught, and the terrible price we pay will be a steady erosion of our rights, our security, and our freedom.

And let me thank those that have signed ALL your letters, as well as the following people, who signed this latest letter....

Rep. John Conyers, Jr.; Rep. Bobby Scott; Rep. Lofgren; Rep. Nadler; Rep. Tauscher; Rep. Jackson Lee; Rep. McDermott; Rep. Meehan; Rep. Olver; Rep. Wexler; Rep. Inslee; Rep. Schakowsky; Rep. Doggett; Rep. Kucinich; Rep. McCollum; Rep. Berman; Rep. Baldwin; Rep. Van Hollen; Rep. David Price; Rep. Tom Udall; Rep. Ackerman; Rep. Wasserman Shultz; Rep. Sabo; Rep. Tierney; Rep. Hinchey; Rep. Sanders

[salin]

13. I am thankful for Conyers - his voice has been a steady

yet lonely one. I am glad to see the ranks around him getting a little broader, and hope very much that they will continue to increase - and include more leadership. Thanks for posting these on this thread, and welcome to du :hi:

[wildbilln864]

15. Salin

Thank you.

[wildbilln864]

17. Harry Reid is undermining real efforts....

to hold Bush and his cabal of sociopaths accountable. I hope everyone here will go to Harry's blog and ask that he support impeachment and censure. Read Mr. Conyers excellent report "The Constitution In Crisis" here> http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/5769

[wiley]

10. You would think the anti-Tax people would

be freaking out. But then, maybe they're working on ONLY taxing Democrats. Where is the media on this one? Dead in the water.

[salin]

12. its the audits...

old methods of enforcing party membership... make the cost of being a member of an opposition party, in terms of possible govt punishments, just a little to steep. Sad that this comes to mind - but some of the recent news per the WH read more like a dictatorship/one-party deal than like our system (the 'signing paper' giving him the right to ignore the law congress had passed and he had signed into law, for example.) Media does seem to be pretty nonplussed. What, are they afraid of bing singled out for an audit? ;-)

[wiley]

14. I bet they are afraid

and also of being harrassed by the FCC for a nipple or something. *s recess appointments are the final step towards the Fascist state.

[salin]

16. at the same time... they also keep making some bonehead political decision

that just may work to thwart them in the long run.

So this week - the story of the "signing paper" per the Torture bill; Publically he works the constitutional process (both houses of congress passes a bill and a pres either vetoes or signs it into law) by signing the bill... AND lets it be known - that it doesn't really matter anyhow, because if he feels it is necessary, by goodness as the president he can order it to be done. Thing is that a heck of a lot of people paid attention to this bill - the debate was of concern to many, and the political theater pulled in the attention of others as well. So on this high profile bill... and the tail end of another now widely known example of extraconstitutional actios by bush (NSA Fisa-less domestic spying) - he calls attention to his action of defiance of Congress (and thus the constitution). Funny thing is that with all of the attention focused on his action - reporters start reporting that this maneuver has been frequently used by Bush... AND that it is highly unusual (in terms of previous presdient's actions.)

Items like this - esp back to back - are starting to wake folks up. The recess appointments are very troubling - but they are not the endgame.

[livvy]

19. I just saw an article on this today.

SharonRB brought it to a town hall meeting with Conyers, who was wonderful as always!), and I think she was going to give the article to him. I don't know if she did or not, as I had to leave before she did.
My thought was how would this information help them with delinquent taxpayers? What does one have to do with the other? It makes no sense, other than to target individuals of one party or the other.
Is there no limit to the snooping and invasion of privacy?

[wiley]

20. This really is outrageous

Just right about IRS collection time. This has to be made very public.

[crispini]

A question and an observation

Question: What action should we be taking (other than publicising it?) -- in other words, what is the remedy? Should we call for an investigation or hearings? I would certainly like to know how this happened. What did they intend by doing this?

Observation: In Texas, we do not register by political party. The only way to determine whether somone is an R or a D is to look at their voting history, i.e. which party's primary you voted in in the last year. Now, I am fairly sure that this voter history is NOT maintained at the state level (in one database) it is maintained at the county level. Which means that in order for them to have collected data on Texas voters, it would be much harder than just getting one database. They would have to get ten or fifteen, as some of the major metropolitian areas cover more than one county. A fairly significant financial effort, if you ask me.

[salin]

24. The data was only collected (according to the article)

in the states where folks have to declare a party (for example, I believe my memory is correct that when I registered in California - I had to declare a party (or no party). Here in Indiana it is as you describe - but they can't even track it by how you vote, as there is no way of tagging a particular vote to a particular voter.

What do we do? I think publicize and push for more publicity. Just a teeny bit of sunlight and the IRS backtracked on the program (or declared it was a mistake and the private contractor is stopping) - but now is story telling time. Part of the bigger picture tapestry for the public to grow its full awareness of the venality of this administration and how far they have been willing to go to attempt to force a one-party state or worse one-person (president) ruler. First we make sure the story gets covered - then we support Murray (and hopefully others) in pushing for an investigation into why it was collected, how it was collected, how the data has been (or had been planned to be) used, and whether or not the IRS really has scrubbed the information from their databases.

[crispini]

26. Well, they named Texas in the article,

which I found interesting.

Yeah, agree, more publicity. I'll email KO.

[EC]

27. We do not declare or register to parties in Wisconsin

and we were on the list too. In fact for the first time ever, IRS is bothering me...

On Edit: I don't itemize, just use the E-Z form so what is the red flag on my taxes for them to be going over it?

[salin]

29. Wow... that is very odd - and troubling

without official declaration - party affiliation would be harder data to find - unless searches of patterns of political donations were undertaken. That makes the story much more troubling - as the contractor would have to invest quite a bit of resources into pulling this data together - which would be highly unlikely for an 'unrequested' data field.

Very sorry to hear you are having some trouble with the IRS - please keep us informed.

[McCamy Taylor]

21. We are, but there are a LOT of stories right now. CIA gave Iran nuke plans

This happened last year. CIA wont deny it. Credible sources confirm it. How come no one wants to talk about this? Too scary to contemplate?

[noamnety]

22. Is last year's omnibus bill provision related?

Last year someone got caught trying to slip a provision into the spending bill to let the committee chairmen view the tax returns of any American. (ray of light mentioned that recently in a Delay thread, jogging my memory.)

I don't know if the provision allowed viewing of just a paper copy of the tax return, or if it allowed a viewing of the IRS records as a whole - which presumably would have included party affiliation as well - meaning they could have been trying to check the affiliation of potential recipients of appropriations before passing them, no?

It's an odd pattern of "innocent mistakes" that's emerging, regarding politics and IRS information.

[salin]

25. Rep. Istook, I believe, was redfaced in that one

did some acrobats to explain that it was a mistake - some staffer accidently slipped the language in the bill... It would be interesting if it were/is related. Good memory catch!

[staticstopper]

28. Outrage fatigue?

n/t

[texpatriot2004]

30. Ditto that. nm

[Jeffersons Ghost]

31. I know why...

We're not talking about it for the same reason we are not talking about the administration allowing credit companies to double minimum payments to further enslave the middle-class: TO MUCH DISTRACTING PROPAGANDA AFOOT! Let's become immune and focus on the issues they want us to ignore.

[salin]

33. can't do it

there are a number of "pattern" stories that create an impression when realized together. This is why, while the press coverage was short, after the DSMs stories came out the public perception sharply shifted per the intent of the admin per faulty intelligence - suddenly more of the public (maj) believed the administration was intentionally deceptive in order to sell the war. The info and evidence had been out there for a long time - but it wasn't until the threads of stories created an overall impression that the 'public's conventional wisdom' shifted.

If groups of folks would take different webs of stories and tie them together and work to push to get them all with some adequate coverage - in each of those areas a public impression dent would be created.

The IRS story fits the pattern of the FBI spying story fits the pattern of the NSA fisaless spying story fits the apprehensions of the slew of stories per the Patriot Act. But the IRS story has huge power - as we are all touched directly by the IRS.

I for one will scan the news each morning and evening to see if there are any developments that are being covered - and will at least here keep bringing back the new coverage - or the lack there of - of this particular story as it fits in with the pattern of abuse of power per privacy issues and even greater potential abuses of power by the administration as it comes to spying on US citizens. While my actions may be minor, and will likely not even create a ripple - perhaps increased discussions here - would create echo local discussions in various communities and perhaps someone will pick up and run with it into the media (lets hope Sen Murray keeps after it) so that it becomes a part of the public awareness/public psyche (things that the collective public begins to accept as true/real).

[Jeffersons Ghost]

35. I disagree....

All action creates a ripple, especially those like you describe. I'm new at wearing a tin-foil hat and mine is likely mis-folded and fits wrong. I only saw hints of the bigger "pattern" before reading your posts and others like them. From under my little misfitting tin-hat, I begin to see the pattern of a two-class system looming before us and believe we will see it in full bloom very soon. Heres another element; exporting jobs while importing cheap labor. We've already accepted a totally lop-sided duel system of justice, which is essentially no justice at all. Now, us slaves must accept keeping jobs with companies that will only change the rules of our health-care after we retire. Maybe they can convince us to simply go to he vet. with the other old dogs that can no longer work and go back to sleep.

[salin]

36. for a couple of years, now, I have wondered about a sort of

"Third Worldization" going on - and pondered whether a developed country had ever moved backwards (economic and politically wise) towards a banana republic type system. In the extreme - that looks as if that is where the slate of policies seems to be intended to take us.

Now I am starting to want a tin foil hat, as it seems that the series of revelations of executive power being used to override congress - and to take action against citizens isn't the beginnings of setting up a one-party rule system using the govt to enforce it (think the force of the govt used in the old soviet system to force people to join the party, and that only economic and career success could be attained if one rose (esp as a youngster) as a party leader or up and comer. Still far fetched - but suddenly not completely out of the question as to answer the "but why?" in response to some of the moves by bushco.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

37. at any rate;

I tip my shabby tin-foil hat to you sir. Keep the ripples flowing, your pebbles in the pond of media indeed form patterns and tsunamis start out relatively small.

BTW, thanks for the link to the ACLU, LeahD, it's like visiting an old friend to again vote at that site.

[salin]

38. thanks... Jeffersons Ghost...

and a tip... you will have to tip the tin-foil to this lady rather than to a sir ;-)

may many tsunamis leading to a widespread public wakening/awarenes grow over the coming times.

[LeahD]

32. Visit this thread and sign ACLU Petition!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x82382

[salin]

34. Thanks - very appropriate here!

:thumbsup:

[LeahD]

39. You're quite welcome, salin and JG. Kick. n/t

[Jeffersons Ghost]

40. I should have asked your permission to re-post your link to ACLU

I apologize but I wanted to wait, so I could kick this thread once more before signing off.

[dusty64]

41. Yup, not a word

in my local rag and the corporate media. I've been telling people about this latest outrage and I hear "but I haven't seen it on the news". My reply, as usual, "Did you expect to? Give it a few weeks or years you'll eventually see it."

[Jeffersons Ghost]

42. It's a good enough word...

to serve as an excuse for me to KICK this post back to the top! :-)