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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 12:11 PM
Original message
We're going to take out seven countries in five years
http://www.counterpunch.org/krassner09012007.html

*General Wesley Clark, for waiting until recently to reveal to Amy Goodman on "Democracy Now" the

following: "About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and

Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint

Staff who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, 'Sir, you've got to

come in and talk to me a second.' I said, 'Well, you're too busy.' He said, 'No, no.' He

says, 'We've made the decision we're going to war with Iraq.' This was on or about the 20th of

September. I said, 'We're going to war with Iraq? Why?' He said, 'I don't know.' He said, 'I guess

they don't know what else to do.' So I said, 'Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam

to al Qaeda?' He said, 'No, no.' He says, 'There's nothing new that way. They just made the decision

to go to war with Iraq.' He said, 'I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists, but

we've got a good military and we can take down governments.' And he said, 'I guess if the only tool

you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail.' So I came back to see him a few weeks

later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, 'Are we still going to war with

Iraq?' And he said, 'Oh, it's worse than that.' He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of

paper. And he said, 'I just got this from upstairs'--meaning the Secretary of Defense's office--

"today." And he said,

'This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in

five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off,

Iran.'


I said, 'Is it classified?' He said, 'Yes, sir.' I said, 'Well, don't show it to me.' And I

saw him a year or so ago, and I said, 'You remember that?' He said, 'Sir, I didn't show you that

memo! I didn't show it to you!'"
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, that plan didn't happen.
You will notice that it is past five years from the data Clark saw that memo.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Roman wasn't destroyed in a day luv
Edited on Sun Sep-02-07 12:34 PM by seemslikeadream
WAR NOW

Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan


and finishing off

Syria, Lebanon, Libya Iran


you do know we have troops in Somalia don't you?



Democracy Now link

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/02/1440234
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Deja vu, much, sweetcheeks? n/t
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. Will you ever be wrong with these open-ended predictions?
Or will your reply always be "it just hasn't happened yet"

Sid
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. They're not my predictions
Scott Ritter

James Bamford

Sy Hersch

Paul Craig Roberts

Dave Lindorff

There are so many more, I'll get back to you with the rest

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. update
Edited on Sun Sep-02-07 01:32 PM by seemslikeadream
Scott Ritter

James Bamford

Sy Hersch

Paul Craig Roberts

Dave Lindorff

Chris Floyd

Arthur Silber

Gary Hart

Chris Hedges

Ray McGovern

Dan Plesch

Fred Halliday

Col. Sam Gardiner, USAF retired.

Robert Parry

Bob Baer

Dr Dan Plesch

Martin Butcher.

Dennis Kucinich

Cheney :rofl:

Michael Ledeen :rofl:

Joe Lieberma :rofl:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. What is to prevent Bush from attacking Iran and widening the war
Edited on Sun Sep-02-07 03:19 PM by seemslikeadream
What is to prevent Bush from attacking Iran and widening the war, at a time and place of his choosing, and sooner than we think?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1719397
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. They scared Libya and looks like they are skipping right to Iran.
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
9. I believe we have special ops people in Iran and Somalia.
This should not come as so great a surprise. Bush has made it clear that he will engage states that sponsor terrorism. Since Iran fits his definition of a state sponsor of terror (Hizbollah, IRGC), it is not unreasonable to expect a US response. Ground forces are another matter altogether. You can't deploy what you don't have.

Somalia is a known hangout for al-Qaeda types. Remember a few years ago when a Predator turned a carfull of known terrorists into a greasy spot? They had actionable intelligence and acted on it.

Libya, Sudan and Syria - I doubt it. Other than an old memo, is there any data to support US troop presence in these states?

Personally, I have no problem with pinpoint strikes on bad people. It's a hell of a lot better than invading a whole damn country. It also happens to be the approach that Bill Clinton took, albeit with limited success.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'm sooooo glad you cleared that up Flatulo
now I understand completely where you're coming from
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I haven't had my coffee yet, so I can't parse your snarky response.
Can you try again, this time with some more information?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Personally, I have no problem with pinpoint strikes on bad people
Shall we start with this one?


Is Iran next on your list or perhaps North Korea?
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Where did I say that I approve of strikes on Iran?
Personally I think it's a terrible idea. The harm will more than offset any gain.

The best way to deal with Iran is to let them have their damn nukes and treat them as the players they are. Why shouldn't they have nukes? If they use them they'll be obliterated.

I'm not thrilled with religious nuts having nukes, but religious nuts in this country have them...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Please specify which bad people you're talking about
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Sorry, I thought that was clear - I refer to known al-Qaeda operatives. nt
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Which part of my post troubles you?
I made only three points... obviously some or all of them trouble you. Please clarify for me...?

- Clinton employed pinpoint anti-personnel strikes
- You can't deploy troops that you don't have
- There are bad people who richly deserve to be turned into greenhouse gasses
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. like innocent Iraqi children?
Flatulo posts

There are bad people who richly deserve to be turned into greenhouse gasses
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Care to order lunch for me?
Iraqi children do not equal bad people.

Are you so certain that you know my mind that you can insert these words into my mouth?

I made specific reference to known al-Qaeda operatives who were smoked by a Predator strike. This pleases me.

Dead Iraqi children do not please me.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Just how does that bomb know the difference between the good and bad?
or young or old?
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. It's called 'actionable intelligence'. Ground assets report
on the movements of known operatives who are then taken out by drones with Hellfire missiles.

If the bad guys surround themselves with children, then yes, tragic collateral damage can occur.

It's an imperfect world. But given the unpleasant choice of having collateral damage of innocents over there versus mass murder of Americans, I'll take the collateral damage.

If Clinton could have taken out bin Laden in the 90s at the cost of some of the children living in the Afghan trining camps, therby preventing 9/11, I would weigh that against the mass casualties caused by the attacks on Americans.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. 'actionable intelligence'
has worked so very well in Iraq and Afghanistan, hasn't it Flatulo?

This is probably necessary
:sarcasm:
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. If you consider that 70% of the leadership of al Qaeda has been
killed or captured, then yes, it has worked well.

I guess in SLAD-land, there are no terrorists - just the evil old USA attacking its own people?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. you are kidding now aren't you Flatulo?
If not where did you hear that?
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. George Bush told me.
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2004&m=April&x=20040401163538FRllehctiM0.5623133

I know the standard joke here on DU is that we've killed the #2 guy in al Qaeda 300 times, but that is really a non-sensical remark. It's like saying we've killed the second dumbest guy in the world over and over - there will always be someone to replace him.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. And you believe georgie?
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. You asked for a reference - I gave you a pretty good one.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Ambassador Cofer Black Becomes Vice-Chairman at Blackwater USA
Edited on Mon Sep-03-07 08:55 PM by seemslikeadream
Now you are putting me on, come on admit it, you're pullin' my leg

:rofl:

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_24131.shtml
AMY GOODMAN: Jeremy Scahill, you devote a whole chapter to another official within Blackwater, Cofer Black.

JEREMY SCAHILL: Right. I mean, Blackwater is really stacked to the deck. The deck is really stacked in Blackwater's favor. In the times that we live in right now, they have several former senior officials from the Bush administration, not from like the Reagan administration, but from the current Bush administration.

Among the most prominent, perhaps the biggest power player in Blackwater's arsenal, is J. Cofer Black, who is a thirty-year veteran of the Central Intelligence Agency, began his career in the 1970s in Africa, as the US -- well, some would say supported the apartheid regime, others would say did nothing to stop it. So Cofer Black was one of the key CIA people in Africa throughout the ’70s and ’80s. And he arrived in Sudan in the early 1990s, and he came under diplomatic cover. As a sort of diplomat, he was there, but he actually was CIA.

And as Black was there, a young Saudi billionaire named Osama bin Laden was building up his international network. And by the time Black would leave Sudan a few years later, the CIA would refer to it as the Ford Foundation of Islamic terrorism. And so, Cofer Black and Osama bin Laden are both operating simultaneously in Khartoum in Sudan in the 1990s. And at one point, there was a plot to kill Cofer Black once bin Laden's group had learned that he was actually CIA. And so, they were sort of monitoring each other. And one of Black's operatives in Sudan actually cooked up a plot to kill bin Laden and toss his body over the fence at the Iranian embassy to make it seem like the Iranians had killed bin Laden. But at the time, bin Laden wasn’t considered a big fish. The big fish in Sudan was Carlos the Jackal, the famed international terrorist. And so, Cofer Black's claim to fame in the 1990s had nothing to do with Osama bin Laden, but had to do with the fact that he was seen as the man who caught Carlos the Jackal. :rofl:

And Black would go on then to serve in Latin America, and just before 9/11 he was tapped to head up the CIA's counterterrorism center. And so when the 9/11 attacks happened, Cofer Black was called to the Situation Room in the White House on September 13, 2001, to lay out for President Bush the CIA plan to go after bin Laden. And he was said to be throwing papers on the ground as he described how they were going to insert Special Forces into Afghanistan. And he told President Bush that he would bring back Osama bin Laden's head in a box on dry ice. :rofl: And, in fact, those were the orders he gave to his CIA operatives that went in with the Jawbreaker team into Afghanistan after 9/11. And one of them said to Cofer Black, you know, “I don't know what we're going to do about dry ice in the field, but we certainly can get a cardboard box.”

Cofer Black became known in the administration as the flies-on-the-eyeballs guy, because he would talk in these sort of messianic terms about the mission that they were about to undertake and said, “When we're through with them, they'll have flies crawling across their eyeballs.” He told Russian diplomats, “We’re going to stick their heads on pikes in the field.” So this is now the guy who went on after 9/11 to really accelerate the use of extraordinary renditions, the capturing of people, putting hoods on them, putting diapers on them, sending them on these long flights to third countries where they're asked a series of questions provided by US interrogators and where they're tortured and humiliated and broken down -- people like Maher Arar, who you've covered extensively on this show.

AMY GOODMAN: Cofer Black is now part of a new Blackwater effort, a new company called Total Intelligence Solutions.

JEREMY SCAHILL: Right. This is really the next sort of generation of privatization, is the privatization of intelligence. And they’re marketing their services to Fortune 500 companies. And so, it's not just Cofer Black. It's another CIA guy who went on to work at Blackwater, Robert Richer, who was a Deputy Director of Operations at the CIA. So those two are really the sort of leaders behind this new initiative.





Blackwater Mercenaries in Downtown New Orleans
(Photo from Google Images; original source unknown.)


Shortly after the hurricane hit, Blackwater "launched a helicopter and crew with no contract, no one paying us, that went down to New Orleans," says company vice chairman Cofer Black. "We saved some 150 people that otherwise wouldn't have been saved. And, as a result of that, we've had a very positive experience." Indeed. It was only days after the company arrived that it started reeling in lucrative deals.


According to Blackwater's government contracts, obtained by The Nation, from September 8 to September 30, 2005, Blackwater was paid $409,000 for providing fourteen guards and four vehicles to "protect the temporary morgue in Baton Rouge, LA." That contract kicked off a hurricane boon for Blackwater. From September to the end of December 2005, the government paid Blackwater at least $33.3 million—well surpassing the amount of Blackwater's contract to guard Ambassador Paul Bremer when he was head of the US occupation of Iraq. And the company has likely raked in much more in the hurricane zone. Exactly how much is unclear, as attempts to get information on Blackwater's current contracts in New Orleans have been unsuccessful.


"We saw the costs, in terms of accountability and dollars, for this practice in Iraq, and now we are seeing it in New Orleans," says Illinois Democrat Jan Schakowsky, who has been one of Blackwater's few critics in Congress. "They have again given a sweetheart contract—without an open bidding process—to a company with close ties to the Administration."


After The Nation exposed Blackwater's operations in New Orleans this past fall , Schakowsky and a handful of other Congress members raised questions about the scandal. They entered the report into the Congressional Record during hearings on Katrina and cited it in letters to DHS Inspector General Richard Skinner, who then began an inquiry. In letters to Congressional offices in February, Skinner defended the Blackwater deal, asserting that it was "appropriate" for the government to contract with the company. Skinner admitted that "the ongoing cost of the contract...is clearly very high" and then quietly dropped a bombshell: "It is expected that FEMA will require guard services on a relatively long-term basis (two to five years)." Two to five years? Already most of the 330 federally contracted private guards in the hurricane zone are working for Blackwater, according to the Washington Post. Another firm, DynCorp, is also trying to grab more of the action, offering its security services for less than $700 per day per guard.


http://canberra.usembassy.gov/hyper/2004/0518/epf204.htm

*EPF204 05/18/2004
Text: Anti-Terror Chief Sees U.S., Israel Fighting Terror Together
(State's Cofer Black discusses al-Qaida, Iran, Syria at AIPAC) (3290)

The State Department's coordinator for counterterrorism says that of the many nations cooperating with the United States in the global war against terror, "none more stalwart than the state of Israel."

Speaking at the 2004 Policy Conference of the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in Washington May 17, Ambassador Cofer Black said he was certain that "ur two great nations will stand together to fight terror." Terrorists and their supporters "will be brought to justice, or justice will be brought to them. We are in this fight together," Black said, "and for the long haul; there can be no accommodation with this evil."

Black termed the bilateral organization, the U.S.-Israel Joint Counterterrorism Group (JCG), as "an important part of our counterterrorism partnership." Established in 1996, the JCG allows agencies of the two governments to exchange information on terrorism issues, and looks for ways to improve bilateral counterterrorism cooperation. Its focus is "on augmenting key capacities to combat terror," Black said.

Then there is the Technical Support Working Group, Black said, which pursues cooperative research and development projects in areas such as physical security, detecting and defeating explosives, chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear threat countermeasures, and investigative support and forensics technologies. It reports to the JCG, he said.

Turning to the U.S. effort to combat al-Qaida since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, Black noted that the terrorist organization has lost heavily in manpower, especially at its upper levels, in finances and methods of financing, and in its crucial base of operations in Afghanistan.

Nevertheless, "it would be fair to say that we are seeing greater cooperation between al-Qaida and smaller Islamic extremist groups, as well as even more localized organizations," Black said. In particular, he noted Ansar al-Islam and the Zarqawi network in Iraq, along with Jemaah Islamiya (JI) and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU).


http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/20/1337226

Interview with Jeremy Scahill, author of Blackwater: The Rise of the World’s Most Powerful Mercenary Army

JEREMY SCAHILL: Among the most prominent, perhaps the biggest power player in Blackwater’s arsenal, is J. Cofer Black, who is a thirty-year veteran of the Central Intelligence Agency, began his career in the 1970s in Africa, as the US — well, some would say supported the apartheid regime, others would say did nothing to stop it. So Cofer Black was one of the key CIA people in Africa throughout the ’70s and ’80s. And he arrived in Sudan in the early 1990s, and he came under diplomatic cover. As a sort of diplomat, he was there, but he actually was CIA.

And as Black was there, a young Saudi billionaire named Osama bin Laden was building up his international network. And by the time Black would leave Sudan a few years later, the CIA would refer to it as the Ford Foundation of Islamic terrorism. And so, Cofer Black and Osama bin Laden are both operating simultaneously in Khartoum in Sudan in the 1990s.

And Black would go on then to serve in Latin America, and just before 9/11 he was tapped to head up the CIA’s counterterrorism center.

AMY GOODMAN: Cofer Black is now part of a new Blackwater effort, a new company called Total Intelligence Solutions.

JEREMY SCAHILL: Right. This is really the next sort of generation of privatization, is the privatization of intelligence. And they’re marketing their services to Fortune 500 companies. And so, it’s not just Cofer Black. It’s another CIA guy who went on to work at Blackwater, Robert Richer, who was a Deputy Director of Operations at the CIA. So those two are really the sort of leaders behind this new initiative.

But, really, the man behind all of it is Erik Prince, the head of Blackwater. He’s rapidly buying up, for instance, a think tank, the Terrorism Research Center, and other intelligence entities and sort of cobbling them together. Blackwater’s big push now is not just for government contracts, but it’s also for corporate contracts. And so, it’s part of this radical privatization agenda. And to have a man heading this who told Congress openly, “There was a before 9/11 and an after 9/11, and after 9/11 the gloves come off” — this is a guy who ran essentially the extraordinary rendition program, now is working as the vice chairman of Blackwater and starting his own private intelligence company.


http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070402/scahill
Revolving Door: from the Pentagon to Blackwater

Since 9/11 Blackwater has hired some well-connected officials close to the Bush Administration as senior executives. Among them are J. Cofer Black, former head of counterterrorism at the CIA and the man who led the hunt for Osama bin Laden after 9/11, and Joseph Schmitz, former Pentagon Inspector General, who was responsible for policing contractors like Blackwater during much of the “war on terror”–something he stood accused of not doing effectively. By the end of Schmitz’s tenure, powerful Republican Senator Charles Grassley launched a Congressional probe into whether Schmitz had “quashed or redirected two ongoing criminal investigations” of senior Bush Administration officials. Under bipartisan fire, Schmitz resigned and signed up with Blackwater.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5197853/site/newsweek
Al-Libi's capture, some sources say, was an early turning point in the government's internal debates over interrogation methods. FBI officials brought their plea to retain control over al-Libi's interrogation up to FBI Director Robert Mueller. The CIA station chief in Afghanistan, meanwhile, appealed to the agency's hawkish counterterrorism chief, Cofer Black. He in turn called CIA Director George Tenet, who went to the White House. Al-Libi was handed over to the CIA. "They duct-taped his mouth, cinched him up and sent him to Cairo" for more-fearsome Egyptian interrogations, says the ex-FBI official. "At the airport the CIA case officer goes up to him and says, 'You're going to Cairo, you know. Before you get there I'm going to find your mother and I'm going to f--- her.' So we lost that fight." (A CIA official said he had no comment.)

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/29/the-cias-top-counterterrorism-officials/
I wrote two weeks ago that Cofer Black is Bush’s equivalent of Nixon’s Butterfield who divulged the presence of an Oval Office audio taping system. That brought Nixon down. Black said two weeks ago when referring to 9/11 that they had strong feelings that the attack would take place in August. His statement seem to be inadvertent. After 9/11 Black was appointed to an Ambassador At Large position. Was this a reward to keep his mouth shut? Black is now an officer with Blackwell USA, which has made a fortune off the war. If the Democrats gain subpoena power, Cofer Black should be one of the first served.


http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/12/15/031215fa_fact
wrote Seymour Hersh in The New Yorker in December 2003,

"According to American and Israeli military and intelligence officials, Israeli commandos and intelligence units have been working closely with their American counterparts at the Special Forces training base at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and in Israel to help them prepare for operations in Iraq. Israeli commandos are expected to serve as ad-hoc advisers – again, in secret – when full-field operations begin. (Neither the Pentagon nor Israeli diplomats would comment. 'No one wants to talk about this,' an Israeli official told me. 'It's incendiary. Both governments have decided at the highest level that it is in their interests to keep a low profile on U.S.-Israeli cooperation' on Iraq.)"


http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2003/12/10/2003079052
THE GUARDIAN, WASHINGTON
Wednesday, Dec 10, 2003, Page 7
Israeli advisers are helping train US special forces in aggressive counter-insurgency operations in Iraq, including the use of assassination squads against guerrilla leaders, US intelligence and military sources said on Monday.

The Israeli Defense Force (IDF) has sent urban warfare specialists to Fort Bragg in North Carolina, the home of US special forces, and according to two sources, Israeli military "consultants" have also visited Iraq.

US forces in Iraq's Sunni triangle have already begun to use tactics that echo Israeli operations in the occupied territories, sealing off centers of resistance with razor wire and razing buildings from where attacks have been launched against US troops.

But the secret war in Iraq is about to get much tougher, in the hope that the Baathist-led insurgency can be suppressed ahead of November's presidential election.

US special forces teams are already behind the lines inside Syria attempting to kill foreign fighters before they cross the border, and a group focused on the "neutralization" of guerrilla leaders is being set up, according to sources familiar with the operations.

................


http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/58/18702
An "Alliance" of Violence
By Dahr Jamail
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Wednesday 29 March 2006

A disturbing trend noticeable in Iraq for quite some time now is that each aggressive Israeli military operation in the occupied territories results in a corresponding increase in the number of attacks on US forces in Iraq. One of the first instances of this was the assassination of Hamas leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin in March 2004 and the reaction it set off across Shia and Sunni, ultimately spiraling into the siege and devastation of Fallujah. Fallujah is but one example one may use to demonstrate how the ongoing use of heavy handed tactics by the US-Israel alliance is proving to be as suicidal as it is homicidal. US troops in Iraq and Israeli civilians in their homes can bear testimony to this, as they are the ones who bear the brunt. Not to mention the collateral damage in Iraq.

May 17, 2004, Washington

Cofer Black, at the time Coordinator for Counterterrorism for the US State Department, in a talk at the 2004 Policy Conference for the American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), said that of all the nations cooperating with the US in the global war on terror, "none more stalwart than the state of Israel." He told the audience of the powerful lobby group that "Our two great nations will stand together to fight terror" and deemed the US-Israel Joint Counterterrorism Group (JCG) "an important part of our counterterrorism partnership."

May 10, 2004, Fallujah, Iraq

The first US siege of Fallujah ended in early May, 2004, and on May 10th US forces abandoned all control of the city, handing it back over to the Iraqis.

April 4, 2004, Fallujah, Iraq

US military directed to launch the first, and eventually failed, revenge assault in retaliation for the four Blackwater USA mercenaries killed on March 31st. The siege caused severe casualties among the people of Fallujah, killing 736 people, over 60% of whom were women, children and the elderly, according to the director of Fallujah General Hospital.

April 2, 2004, Iraq

Speaking on al-Manar TV, Muqtada al-Sadr pledged, "From here I announce my solidarity with the genuine unity announced by Hezbollah general secretary Hassan Nasrallah with the mujahideen movement Hamas. Let them consider me their striking hand in Iraq whenever the need arises. As the martyr Sheikh Ahmed Yassin said, Iraq and Palestine have the same destiny."

March 31, 2004, Fallujah, Iraq

Four Blackwater USA mercenaries killed in Fallujah in an attack avenging the assassination of Hamas leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. Nine days after the assassination, the bodies of four mercenaries from Blackwater USA were burned, chopped into pieces, dragged behind vehicles bearing posters of Sheikh Yassin, and finally put on display by being hung from a bridge. Pamphlets were distributed at the scene which declared the attack against the four men as having been carried out in the name of Yassin. It was also reported by several Arab media outlets at the time that a group known as the "Phalange of Sheikh Yassin" claimed responsibility for the attack, and that the deaths of the four men were meant as a "gift to the Palestinian people."

March 28, 2004, Baghdad, Iraq

The head of the CPA, Paul Bremer, ordered the closing of the al-Hawza newspaper, the mouthpiece of Muqtada al-Sadr. One of Sadr's spokespeople, Sheikh Mahmud Sudani, told reporters at the time that al-Hawza had attracted censure because of its strong critique of the killing of Sheikh Yassin by Israeli forces. The closing of this paper was a primary factor that led to the first violent uprising called by Sadr against the occupiers.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/060807C.shtml
Blackwater quickly adapted its battlefield tactics to the courtroom. It initially hired Fred F. Fielding, who is currently counsel to the President of the United States. It then hired Joseph E. Schmitz as its in-house counsel, who was formerly the Inspector General at the Pentagon. More recently, Blackwater employed Kenneth Starr, famed prosecutor in the Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky scandal, to oppose the families. To add additional muscle, Blackwater hired Cofer Black, who was the Director of the CIA Counter- Terrorist Center.

After filing its suit against the dead men's estates, Blackwater demanded that its claim and the families' existing lawsuit be handled in a private arbitration. By suing the families in arbitration, Blackwater has attempted to move the examination of their wrongful conduct outside of the eye of the public and away from a jury. This comes at the same time when Congress is investigating Blackwater.

Over 300 contractors have been killed in Iraq with very little inquiry into their deaths. The families claim that Blackwater is attempting to cover up its incompetence, its cutting of corners in favor of higher profits, and its over billing to the government. Due to lack of accountability and oversight, Blackwater's private army has been able to obtain huge profits from the government, utilizing contacts established through Erik Prince's relationships with high-ranking government officials such as Cofer Black and Joseph Schmitz.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/
It is not only in Iraq that the emphasis on intelligence gathering has led to apparent brutality against military detainees. The American base at Bagram in Afghanistan has acquired a reputation for abusive interrogations of suspected al-Qaeda members. Two prisoners there were said by military pathologists last year to have died through “homicide” but the U.S. Army has provided no information about any subsequent investigation. Notoriously, the CIA's former counterterrorism chief Cofer Black has been quoted as saying about interrogation techniques that “after 9/11, the gloves came off.”

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0308-33.htm
On the evening of September 11, Bush told his counterterrorism staff, according to Richard Clarke, that “any barriers in your way, they are gone.” And he said: “I don’t care what the international lawyers say, we’re going to kick some ass.” He also authorized the CIA to send detainees to third countries for torture. And he let George Tenet and the CIA know that the gloves are off, in the words of Cofer Black, who was head of the CIA’s counterterrorism center on 9/11.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. How many bombs will that take Flatulo?
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. You keep conflating Iraq with valid terror targets.
I opposed the invasion and occupation of Iraq. There were no terrorists there.

I fully support killing religious nuts who have gone on the record as desiring to kill as many Americans as possible.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. No there were no terrorists there then but there is now
Is it your plan to bomb the al-Qaeda operatives that are there now?
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Look, we made a real mess out of Iraq. You can't put the shit
back into a cow.

But since you ask, I think the best way to deal with Iraq is to leave. The Iraqis had a perfectly good police state before we arrived. They can re-establish their intelligence apparatus and kill or capture whomever they like.

The best information is that there are very few al-Qaeda types in Iraq. Mostly jihadis from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt and Jordan who have simply come to kill Americaan soldiers.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. oh so do you think we should be bombing
Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt and Jordan?
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. No. You are confusing people who want to kill American soldiers
Edited on Mon Sep-03-07 11:28 AM by Flatulo
who are invaders in a Muslim country with people who are plotting to restore the Islamic caliphate and kill all infidels.

Such people do exist, you know. I fully support civilized people taking steps to ensure that these lunatics are not in any position to realize their goal of having one world government under Shari'a law.

It can be done without invading countries by targeting the leaders of the movement and killing them.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Tell me again WHO are the invaders here, in Iraq I mean
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Go here, and this time please read it carefully.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. I was kinda thinking it was US
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Kind of difficult to understand the mindset
But, I give you a lot of credit for trying. What really got me was the "collateral damage" statement.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. At least I know what I'm up against now
:rofl:
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Exactly n/t
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. SLAD, I believe I've told you this before, but I will say it again...
I have inner beauty. My mom loves me.

Your insults roll off of me like rain off a goose.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. They are not insults
I just understand you much better now that's all
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. It took you this long to understand me? I am a simple man.
I believe that there are indeed people in the world who want to kill Americans. These people existed long before GWB took office. They attack not military targets, but civilians. Their goal is to establish an Islamic form of government that encircles the globe.

A proper response to these people is to kill them. The decision to do so has to be weighed against the possibility of killing innocents. Sometimes the decision is made to accept the risk to innocents.

I believe that, in general, the United States militery, as a matter of policy, makes every attempt to avoid the killing of innocents.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. You do know the beginnings of al Qaeda don't you?
Edited on Mon Sep-03-07 10:02 PM by seemslikeadream
and you need to address post 38 of mine, maybe you forgot?


Here's some stuff on the brotherhood
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2272207
Reverend Franklin Graham, the pugnacious preacher who delivered the prayer at President George W. Bush's 2001 inauguration, might have a bone to pick with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). When Franklin branded Islam "a very evil and wicked religion" after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, he had no idea that American spies were once eager to promote a Muslim leader in the Middle East modeled after his own father, the famous evangelist Billy Graham.

The CIA often works in mysterious ways - and so it was with this little-known cloak-and-dagger caper that set the stage for extensive collaboration between US intelligence and Islamic extremists. The genesis of this ill-starred alliance dates back to Egypt in the mid-1950s, when the CIA made discrete overtures to the Muslim Brotherhood, the influential Sunni fundamentalist movement that fostered Islamic militancy throughout the Middle East. What started as a quiet American flirtation with political Islam became a Cold War love affair on the sly - an affair that would turn out disastrously for the United States. Nearly all of today's radical Islamic groups, including al-Qaeda, trace their lineage to the Brotherhood.

.............

To understand what happened on that fateful day when terrorist strikes leveled the World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon, one must revisit the turbulent changes that took place a half century earlier in the land of the sphinx. After seizing power in a 1952 military coup Egyptian Col. Gamal Abdul Nasser quickly threw prominent Communists in jail. This raised eyebrows among US cloak-and-dagger operatives who were eager to oblige when Nasser requested help in upgrading Egypt's ineffectual secret service. But the US government "found it highly impolitic to help him directly," the late CIA agent Miles Copeland acknowledged in his memoirs, The Game of Nations , so the CIA subcontracted more than a hundred German Third Reich vets, who specialized in Nazi security and interrogation techniques, to do the job.

..............

Copeland was off and running. He visited several Egyptian mosques in search of an Islamic preacher who could sway the Arab masses in a manner most congenial to US interests. Although Copeland never found the CIA's messiah, his furtive machinations were not without impact. While on the prowl for a Muslim Billy Graham, Copeland reached out to leaders of the religious revival movement known as the Ikhwan, or Muslim Brotherhood, which sought to build an Islamic society from the bottom up. The seeds of a clandestine relationship between the CIA and the Ikhwan were planted by Copeland, who surmised that the Muslim Brothers, by virtue of their strong antipathy to Arab nationalism as well as Communism, might be a viable counterweight to Nasser in the years ahead, US intelligence would become a defacto partner of the Brotherhood as it evolved from a mass-based social reform organization into the wellspring of Islamic terrorism.
more

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2268109



http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/issue51/articles/51_08.pdf



and I honestly believe you thought I was only interested conspiracies!
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. I did read your #38, but I went into information overload - sorry.
I'll read it more thoroughly.

I think the gist is that the US is pretty much the source of all the evil in this world. A good argument can be made for that perspective, I'll grant you that.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. all you needed to read was the first couple of paragraphs
The Democracy Now interview
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. OK, I get it. Blackwater/CIA guy is wild-eyed loony.
I still don't make the connection to the US invading six more countries.
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #47
62. Yes, I am aware of the Muslim Brotherhood and the origins of
al Qaeda, right up through the CIA covert assistance rendered to bin Laden during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Fast-forward to now. How does the West deal with the monster, regardless of how it was created?
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Hypothetical question - If the British had been able to kill Herr Hitler
in 1937, at the cost of a few hundred or thousand innocent German lives, including women and children, would it have been worth it if it could have prevented the 60 million deaths incurred in WWII?

For me, it's kind of difficult to understand the naivete.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Reality question
Edited on Mon Sep-03-07 09:55 PM by seemslikeadream
How far along do you think Hitler ascent to power would have gotten without the help of Prescott Bush and the other directors of the Union Banking Company or the finaces of Fritz Thyssen?

You know that Union Bank protected Nazi money Germany - Netherlands - U S and then back to Germany with the help of the Brown Brothers Harriman

Or maybe Standard Oil and Rockefeller's Chase Bank



For me, it's kind of difficult to understand the naivete, yours' that is


Lots of stuff here in case YOU weren't aware
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2933358
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Damn, I wish I had bet on you not answering my question.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. IBM and the Holocaust
http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

IBM and the Holocaust is the stunning story of IBM's strategic alliance with Nazi Germany -- beginning in 1933 in the first weeks that Hitler came to power and continuing well into World War II. As the Third Reich embarked upon its plan of conquest and genocide, IBM and its subsidiaries helped create enabling technologies, step-by-step, from the identification and cataloging programs of the 1930s to the selections of the 1940s.
Only after Jews were identified -- a massive and complex task that Hitler wanted done immediately -- could they be targeted for efficient asset confiscation, ghettoization, deportation, enslaved labor, and, ultimately, annihilation. It was a cross-tabulation and organizational challenge so monumental, it called for a computer. Of course, in the 1930s no computer existed.

But IBM's Hollerith punch card technology did exist. Aided by the company's custom-designed and constantly updated Hollerith systems, Hitler was able to automate his persecution of the Jews. Historians have always been amazed at the speed and accuracy with which the Nazis were able to identify and locate European Jewry. Until now, the pieces of this puzzle have never been fully assembled. The fact is, IBM technology was used to organize nearly everything in Germany and then Nazi Europe, from the identification of the Jews in censuses, registrations, and ancestral tracing programs to the running of railroads and organizing of concentration camp slave labor.
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Why not pile on the Chinese as well for inventing gunpowder?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Eugenics and America's Campaign to Create a Master Race
http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/offSiteArchive/popmatters/index.html

Against the mongrelization of the submerged tenth, the eugenicists posed the purity of the Nordic races. Peoples of the north, they held, had forged their superiority over generations through the struggle to survive in severe environments. The weaker members had long been eliminated by natural selection. This was set out in texts like The Passing of a Great Race by American eugenicist Madison Grant, which Hitler read while imprisoned in the mid '20s for inciting mob violence. (The German translation was published by Hitler's co-conspirator Julius Lehman; Hitler even wrote Grant a fan letter declaring the book his "Bible.")
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Hitler's debt to America
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1142027,00.html

The Nazis' extermination programme was carried out in the name of eugenics - but they were by no means the only advocates of racial purification. In this extract from his extraordinary new book, Edwin Black describes how Adolf Hitler's race hatred was underpinned by the work of American eugenicists

Friday February 6, 2004
The Guardian


At 4am on November 12 1915, a woman named Anna Bollinger gave birth at the German-American Hospital in Chicago. The baby was somewhat deformed and suffered from extreme intestinal and rectal abnormalities, as well as other complications. The delivering physicians awakened Dr Harry Haiselden, the hospital's chief of staff. Haiselden came in at once. He consulted with colleagues. There was great disagreement over whether the child could be saved. But Haiselden decided the baby was too afflicted and fundamentally not worth saving. It would be killed. The method: denial of treatment.

Article continues

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Catherine Walsh, probably a friend of Bollinger's, heard the news and sped to the hospital to help. She found the baby, who had been named Allan, alone in a bare room. Walsh pleaded with Haiselden not to kill the baby by withholding treatment. "It was not a monster - that child," Walsh later told an inquest. "It was a beautiful baby. I saw no deformities." Walsh had patted the infant lightly. Allan's eyes were open, and he waved his tiny fists at her. Begging the doctor once more, Walsh tried an appeal to his humanity. "If the poor little darling has one chance in a thousand," she pleaded, "won't you operate to save it?"
Haiselden laughed at Walsh, retorting, "I'm afraid it might get well." He was a skilled and experienced surgeon, trained by the best doctors in Chicago. He was also an ardent eugenicist. Allan Bollinger duly died. An inquest was convened a few days later. Haiselden defiantly declared, "I should have been guilty of a graver crime if I had saved this child's life. My crime would have been keeping in existence one of nature's cruellest blunders." A juror shot back, "What do you mean by that?" Haiselden responded, "Exactly that. I do not think this child would have grown up to be a mental defective. I know it."

After tempestuous proceedings, the inquest ruled: "We believe that a prompt operation would have prolonged and perhaps saved the life of the child. We find no evidence from the physical defects that the child would have become mentally or morally defective." But they also decided that Haiselden was within his professional rights to decline treatment. No law compelled him to operate on the child. He was released unpunished, and efforts by the Illinois attorney general to indict him for murder were blocked by the local prosecutor. The doctor considered his legal vindication a powerful victory for eugenics. "Eugenics? Of course it's eugenics," he told one reporter.
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. What does this have to do with the OP? I thought we were
discussing plans to invade six more countries?

I understand that you have done a lot of research into the consequences of American business ties with evil regimes. I'm even impressed.

My original counterpoint to your OP was that you can't invade states if you don't have the army to do it.

If the government reinstates the draft, then I'll start to worry.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. I thought you mentioned something about Hitler
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. I was replying to Hope and her comment about collateral damage.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. oh I see then never mind
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. Just one more I promise The Transfer Agreement
http://www.transferagreement.com/

First published to international acclaim in 1984, The Transfer Agreement stunned readers worldwide with its revelations of a pact between Zionist leaders and Hitler's Third Reich. Concluded in 1933, this controversial pact transferred 55,000 Jews and $100 million to Palestine on the condition that Zionist organizations call a halt to their economic boycott of Nazi Germany -- a potent tactic that was threatening to topple Hitler's government, then only in its first year in power.The debate over this controversial deal virtually tore apart the Jewish world in the pre-World War II era, and it remains unresolved today. Whereas the transfer agreement indeed ultimately saved lives, rescued assets, and helped lay the foundation for what would become the Jewish state in 1948, it also -- arguably -- allowed the Nazi regime to survive its first year and, over the next twelve, to plumb the depths of ethnic intolerance and implement massive genocide.With the world today confronting such morally complex issues as compensation for slave labor during the Holocaust and the refusal of Swiss banks to return Jewish assets to their rightful heirs, the transfer agreement and the boycott that preceded it stand out even more startlingly as early examples of Jewish initiatives against Nazi terror. However ambiguous the choices made by the Jewish leaders in the turbulent prewar 1930s, they stand in a new and different light today. The Transfer Agreement is a remarkable and revelatory book that has now found its time
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. I'm sure we can make long lists of actions by states and peoples
that resulted in unintended consequences and long conflicts. I've heard it said that the Palestinians sold their land to the Jews acre by acre. I've never much researched this.

Still curious to hear how you think the US can invade the rest of the ME with a broken army that is near exhaustion.

I can see air strikes on Iran - and that will be a very very bad thing - but I do not see how we can invade Syria and Sudan.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #40
56. After Banking on Baghdad, no reader will ever see Iraq the same.
http://www.bankingonbaghdad.com/

In Banking on Baghdad, New York Times and international bestselling author Edwin Black chronicles the dramatic and tragic history of a land long the center of world commerce and conflict. Tracing the involvement of Western governments and militaries, as well as oil, banking, and other corporate interests, Black pinpoints why today, just as throughout modern history, the world needs Iraq's resources-and remains determined to acquire and protect them. Banking on Baghdad almost painfully documents the many ways Iraq's recent history mirrors its tumultuous past.

Banking on Baghdad is the first history of Iraq presented in a global context. Woven through the boardrooms and war rooms of London, Paris, Berlin, Istanbul, Washington, and the other centers that set the agenda for its tragic history, Black has pieced together the corporate hegemony, oil politics, religious extremism, Nazi alliances, and intersecting global upheaval--all with a compelling, contemporary perspective.

Now, with foreign troops once more occupying the "cradle of civilization," Banking on Baghdad gives us the opportunity to consider the present and future of Iraq through the lens of its complicated and turbulent history. While demonstrating that Iraq's tribal, religious, and political turmoil has combined to punish the nation, Black does not shy away from the uncomfortable truth that foreign governments--including our own--have played a defining role in creating the Iraq we know today. With his trademark mix of deeply mined history and investigative journalism, Black documents a long record of war profiteering in Iraq and takes a hard look at the corporations currently doing business there. With access to numerous oil company archives, the papers of a half dozen governments, and numerous other primary sources yielding some 50,000 documents gathered by an international team of some 30 researchers, Banking on Baghdad promises to tell a monumental story 7,000 years in the making. Banking on Baghdad has been nominated for the Pulitzer Prize.

Vivid characters bring Banking on Baghdad to life. The followers of Islam consumed Iraq as the epicenter of a struggle between the minority Shiites and the Sunnis. The Mongol chieftain Hulagu utterly destroyed Iraq, but its remnant later came back to life. Winston Churchill solidly set the course of British petropolitics and military oil dependence on a collision course with Iraq and Iran, as the government-controlled company that became British Petroleum literally invented the geopolitical Middle East. During World War I, the British invaded Iraq for the oil they knew one day would be indispensable to all industry and militaries. C. S. Gulbenkian, the legendary Mr. Five Percent, through intrigue and high-drama created the Red Line Agreement monopoly, dividing Iraq's fabulous oil wealth between British, American, and French cartels. The Hashemites, from Sharif Hussein and King Faisal to his brutally-murdered progeny, fought alongside Lawrence of Arabia to achieve independence in Syria, but were given Iraq instead; in consequence the Arabs aborted a planned peaceful co-existence with Israel. The Mufti of Jerusalem, in his war against Zionism, using Iraq's oil and strategic location as bait, sealed an alliance with Hitler during World War II and lead a pro-Reich coup in Baghdad met by a British invasion to oust it. The post-World War II Ba'ath predecessors of Saddam Hussein ravaged Iraq's minorities and paved the way for the recently-deposed tyrant.

After Banking on Baghdad, no reader will ever see Iraq the same.
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. So can I assume that you are against using military force
under any circumstances, if there is even the slightest chance of the killing of innocents?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. No you can not assume that
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. Actually, that query was directed to Hope.
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #43
65. "even the slightest chance of killing innocents"
How many "innocents" have we killed in Iraq to date?

This is much more than the "the slightest chance". Much, much more.
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. I believe I've made it very clear that I oppose the occupation of Iraq.
My question addresses the specific issue of using military force to kill known terror suspects who have publicly gone on the record as desiring to kill as many American civilians as possible (see Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri et al), if there is even the slightest possibility of killing innocent civilians in doing so.

I obviously cannot, nor would I want to, force you to answer this particular question, but your avoidance of it tells me that you have not given it much thought.
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. "Not much thought"
Really?

I guess you, yourself, have not given this issue as much thought as it deserves to have.

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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. I have made my positons perfectly clear. You have not. nt
Simply repeating what I say back to me does nothing to clarify your position.
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Really n/t
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. Ha, that was actually kind of funny. Not sure if you intended it.
By the way, your kids are beautiful.

I just put my 18 year old into college last week. Pay attention - they grow up way too fast.
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Really n/t
?
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. I think it's safe to say that this exchange has lost its sizzle.
Good day to you.
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