Kerry Supporters only / Please weigh in

[Tinoire]

Caveat- Please, this is a FLAME-FREE thread!

I am a DK supporter who's preparing myself for the distressing eventuality that my candidate may not make it past the primaries and want to start lining up my other ducks now.

Can you tell me why you like Kerry? Can you also tell me how you got over whatever reservations you may have had?

This would be greatly appreciated!

Peace

Freedom From Bush 2004!

[sidwill]

1. Why I like Kerry

1. He's a liberal, not a DLC Bush lite flunkie ala Lieberman.
2. He would look and sound great in a debate with Bush, a very articulate speaker, also he has an almost regal way a carrying himself. The boy king would look absolutely emasculated next to Kerry wich would play well in the sticks.
3. Money, Kerry may be the only Dem who can raise the kind of money that Bush can.
4. War record: War hero meet AWOL frat boy....nuff said.


I like Kuchinich, Dean, and Braun But Kerry IMO is the best chance we have at beating shrub.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. War hero AND Anti-War protestor

Not only is Kerry a decorated Vietnam Vet, but he returned to the States to lead protests against the war.

[Tinoire]

22. He did?

I wasn't aware of this. Thanks, I'll research. Do you have a link by any chance? And why exactly, on what grounds did he protest? Was it the illegality, the immorality, the imperialism?

Thanks

[Feanorcurufinwe]

28. boston globe article

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml

[RegenerationMan]

54. John Kerry and John Lennon and Kerry's Go-Get'em Style

1971 Peace Rally where Kerry spoke and then introduced John Lennon.

He was one of the main leaders of The Movement in the early 1970s. His testimony on April 22, 1971 turned around the Senate and the Vietnam War was wound down. Kerry asked "How can you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

He then led the campaign against Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant, went to the Senate and investigated Iran Contra and the BCCI Banking Scandal and closed BCCI and helped Walsh convict Casper Weinberger!

He even put Osama Bin Laden's brother-in-law, Bin Mahfouz, under house arrest and had him fined $225 million for running BCCI! Now Mahfouz is identified as likely funder of the 9-11 terrorists and W won't touch him because he's a former business partner from Harken Energy! Kerry will bring this out at the debate with Bush.

In short, John Kerry -- HE's NO WEENIE!

[Tinoire]

20. This sounds like a stupid question but

what are the liberal positions that most impressed you? I haven't followed individual candidates closely enough to know because I was too involved in causes and spent my first 2 years here mostly in the I/P basement.

Thanks

[blm]

33. Best environmental candidate

this nation has ever fielded. He was also the first senator to point out the existence of environmental racism.

He is against the death penalty as part of the criminal justice system.

He promoted legislation to reinstate voting rights for those who served time in prison.

He never took corporate pac money and has been a longtime advocate for public financing of campaigns.

He was the first to come forward and advocate for gays to serve openly in the military, even testifying before Congress.

He helped draft the Hate Crimes bill.

He helped draft the CHIPS bill that expanded health insurance for all children.

He helped craft the Kyoto Accord with other world leaders.

[Andy_Stephenson]

61. What exactly does John Drive?

or is he chauffered in a limo?

[blm]

67. hopefully something bulletproof...

since he has been targeted by the BFEE since he came back from Vietnam.

Even Nixon talked about bringing Kerry down on the Nixon tapes. Of course, according to you, Nixon was just pretending so Bush could set Kerry up as an operative. Sheesh.

[Andy_Stephenson]

71. At one point it time...

Kerry's intentions may have been honorable. But War, Patriot Act and Gestapo ruied him...When the chips were down...he caved. I don't see him calling for thier repeal so he is firmly on board with it. War, well there is no doubt he was on board.

[tpub]

77. check his report card with the NRA, NAACP, NARAL, etc.

He's pro-choice, for gun control, an strong environmentalist...

[CWebster]

64. Kerry is DLC

http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=3&q=http://www.issues2000.org/Social/John_Kerry_Principles_%2B_Values.htm&e=912

[random]

2. I think that Kerry is one of the few Dem candidates that is "electable..."

I'm almost sorry to say. I like alot of what Kucinich has to say, although I understand he has gone back and forth on the abortion issue, which is a big deal to me. I also like Dean, I just don't think he has the charisma to get elected. He looked horrible on MTP and kind of reminds me of Elmer Fudd. I know that is VERY shallow, but I believe most voters are shallow. Kerry is a combat vet, he has a voting record, some of which I don't agree with, he's highly educated and has a record of accomplishment, none of which was handed to him. He protested the Vietnam war, and although he was late to the table, I believe he's against what's going on now. That being said, I know I'm gonna get flamed, he's tall, good-looking, charismatic and can string together a sentence, and I think that's what people vote for. I worry about his skull and bones history, but am willing to forgive it.

There, I said it.

[Tinoire]

24. Skull and bones bothers me a lot but

Clinton was CFR which is just as bad so there are certain things I may have to overlook. I've already accepted that none of them are angels (literally!)

I agree with the looks part. It's shallow yes but most voters see better than they can think. The education is good too.

What is the record of accomplishments? Brief and quick highlights of those that impressed you?

Thanks

[tpub]

78. unfortunately, that is part of the definition of "electable"

<<he's tall, good-looking, charismatic and can string together a sentence>>

[Feanorcurufinwe]

3. Been paying attention to his speechs for years.

I first became interested many years ago when hearing him speak about mandatory minimums on the floor of the Senate. Since then I have paid close attention to him. I don't believe the political process is so much about finding a politician that always agrees with me (of course they better most of the time! LOL) as it is finding a person who I believe in as leader. That is the criteria by which I have been judging him over the years and that's why I hope I'll have a chance to vote for him for President.
Pragmatically, I also think he has a solid chance to beat Bush.

[stewert]

5. Why I Like Kerry !

I like Kerry for many reasons, too many to list. But the main reason I like him is I think
he has the best chance to beat Bush.

I like Dean more than Kerry, I just don't think Dean can beat Bush.

Of course it's still early, by november of 2004 anyone may be able to beat Bush.

I like anyone who wins the democratic nomination, I do not see one problem with
Kerry.

[Tinoire]

29. Can you list the accomplishments/issues he fought for

that most impressed you?

I know I'm being very lazy but web-sites can be so slanted and I respect my fellow DU-ers opinions a lot more.

Thanks!

[blm]

47. See post 33

.

[Tinoire]

26. What are mandatory minimums?

The leadership part is important I agree. How much pull does he have with other Dems- how well does he work with them?

I agree beating Bush because I think Kerry is the one most likely get the entire machinery behind him. I think Kucinich could draw back more voters and rouse apathetic voters but I don't think he'd get the machinery.

Thanks

[Feanorcurufinwe]

32. MM

Mandatory minimums are statutes that determine a minimum sentence for a crime and don't allow the judge any discretion in sentencing.

[jpgray]

6. Kerry is an excellent candidate

Here's a good article that details why I think he is interested in using power for public good.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/062003.shtml

[Tinoire]

37. Very interesting!

He had spent the spring conducting an unauthorized investigation into reports that the Reagan administration was illegally providing aid to the rebel Nicaraguan Contra armies, which were attempting to overthrow the left-wing government of that Central American nation. At this closed session, he planned to urge the committee to launch an official probe.

<snip>

"You come home and discover that people who are running the war are just interested in covering their ass; meanwhile, real people are dying real deaths. ... This was a very searing business."


Involvement exposing Iran Contra - very good

Ultimately, the subcommittee's findings on the scope of the contra-drug connection were validated by two subsequent federal investigations. Inspectors General at the CIA and the Justice Department found that these agencies had done little or nothing in response to hundreds of allegations that elements of the contras and their supply networks were involved with drugs.

"Kerry's proven conclusion was that the government, especially the CIA, looked the other way," says Blanton. "The Kerry committee findings hold up."

BCCI - good. Wish he had pursued it more vigorously but think he was had here. Still very good.

Interesting, flattering article. After reading it, I can not understand for the life of me why he voted for the Iraq War Resolution. I would have expected him to be totally anti. Can you explain that? And also, while we're on that subject- what is his stance on the I/P conflict? How closely aligned is he with AIPAC?

Thanks!

[Punkingal]

7. Why I like Kerry.....

His voting record is very similar to Ted Kennedy's.
He is very intelligent.
He is a combat veteran...he knows what it is like, so he would think twice about putting anyone in that situation.
He is thoughtful,and spiritual...I read an article in a windsurfer magazine, and that really sold me. This man writes POETRY!

[Tinoire]

40. I admit. He sound like someone with depth

and I find that very attractive.
But you add "He is a combat veteran...he knows what it is like, so he would think twice about putting anyone in that situation." Why did he vote for Bush's War Resolution? This really bothers me.

Are you anti-war? If so, how did you resolve that? What is his explanation for having authorized it?

Thanks punkingal!

[Andy_Stephenson]

8. John Kerry a man of the Constitution.

Gave us Patriot Act, War and the Gestapo...As well as NAFTA and WTO. What a great example of Leadership. Stick with Dennis and if not Dennis. Dean.

[Tinoire]

42. I hate all of those things too

They're on my Kerry list already. I just want to know what about him is exciting people. I'm going to be looking at all the candidates this way. I'm 100% Kucinich and like Sharpton also. If neither one of them makes it, I want to start preparing my next move now.

I appreciate the honesty with which the Kerry supporters are answering this question. I also like the fact that he has a track record we can check.

Peace

[sandnsea]

9. I read what he actually says

Sept 6 2002

If we are to put American lives at risk in a foreign war, President Bush must be able to say to this nation that we had no choice, that this was the only way we could eliminate a threat we could not afford to tolerate.

In the end there may be no choice. But so far, rather than making the case for the legitimacy of an Iraq war, the administration has complicated its own case and compromised America's credibility by casting about in an unfocused, overly public internal debate in the search for a rationale for war.

March 18 2003

I find myself genuinely angered, saddened and dismayed by the situation in which this nation finds itself tonight. As the world's sole superpower in an increasingly hostile and dangerous world, our government's obligation to protect the security of the United States and the law abiding nations of the world could not be more clear, particularly in the aftermath of September 11th. <snip>

Even having botched the diplomacy, it is the duty of any President, in the final analysis, to defend this nation and dispel the security threats - threats both immediate and longer term - against it. <snip>

My strong personal preference would have been for the Administration - like the Administration of George Bush, Sr. -- to have given diplomacy more time, more commitment, a real chance of success. In my estimation, giving the world thirty additional days for additional real multilateral coalition building - a real summit, not a five hour flyby with most of the world's powers excluded -- would have been prudent and no impediment to our military situation, an assessment with which our top military brass apparently agree. Unfortunately, that is an option that has been disregarded by President Bush. In the colloquial, we are where we are. <snip>
http://www.cfr.org/publication.php?id=5722.xml

He authorized the President to defend the country if it became necessary. It doesn't mean that he authorized lies and manipulations, circumventing the UN, disrespecting and alienating the entire world, and a bull-headed rush to war.

[Andy_Stephenson]

11. You may want to go back and reread the legislation.

What he voted on is what we have...a quagmire. Kerry does not deserve mine or anyother persons vote. At least ways...ones that care that innocents died and are dying. Thanks John. Those skull and bones boys love the bloodshed.

[sandnsea]

43. I did, did you?

It authorizes military action to enforce UN resolutions OR protect U.S. security. That's all it does. Again, I've read what John Kerry said and in no way did he support what George Bush did. He didn't support the pre-emptive nonsense. He didn't support regime change for the sake of regime change. He only supported working with the UN or protecting U.S. interests. That's all.

Bush lied, circumvented inspectors, disprespected and alienated the UN and the world, and made a headlong rush to war. Nobody authorized that.

(It seems I posted this response and I can't find it, if it's a dupe, sorry)

[Tinoire]

46. I understand your distinction

He authorized the President to defend the country if it became necessary. It doesn't mean that he authorized lies and manipulations, circumventing the UN, disrespecting and alienating the entire world, and a bull-headed rush to war.


But I have a problem with them handing their power over to such a war-mongering, unscrupulous reptile. Could he not see what we saw? Who and what he was dealing with? This is really disturbing for me. How do you reconcile that?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

70. Who and what he was dealing with?

He was dealing with the rules of the U.S. Senate and the political realities of being in the minority party. I'm not going to defend something I don't agree with but I am not going to condemn for it either.

[Submariner]

10. The Vietnam Veterans Against the War

had just started with Kerry as a spokesman, when I went back to school and was partly responsible for starting the UMASS chapter of the VVAW. Kerry was a powerful voice in the organization, and as a JFK democrat from Boston familiar with his record, to me he is the right choice for 2004.

Kerry's Vietnam record in comparison to AWOL-boy's desertion record needs no explanation.

[Andy_Stephenson]

12. An open letter to John Kerry

ROM: S. Brian Willson ([email protected])
TO: John Kerry ([email protected])

Dear John,

It has been a long time since we have had contact. As you might remember, our very first meeting was at VVAW's Dewey Canyon III, "A Limited Incursion Into the Country of Congress," April 19-23, 1971, in Washington, D.C. I'm sure you remember asking the Senate that week in an impassioned speech, "How do you ask a man to die for a mistake?" You also stressed the importance of being "totally nonviolent."

Our second and many subsequent meetings occurred in Massachusetts after you were elected Lt. Governor, 1982-84, while I was active in veteran's issues in Western MA. As director of a veterans outreach center in Greenfield, and the Western Massachusetts Agent Orange Information Project, I served on the Massachusetts Agent Orange Task Force under Governor Dukakis' veterans commissioner and your office as Lt. Governor. I subsequently also served on Dukakis' homeless veterans task force.

http://www.brianwillson.com/awolkerry.html

When you decided to run for the Senate in 1984 against Ray Shamie, a wealthy businessman, remember that I loyally supported your campaign as one of the dozen or so Vietnam veterans the press called Kerry's Commandos, you called "Doghunters." We accompanied you throughout the state, and fended off right wing criticism from folks such as General George Patton III, who accused you of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" for your earlier VVAW activities. I'm sure you remember with fondness that critical time that launched you into national office. Your lawyer brother, Cameron, concluded that it was the veterans' support that pulled your first campaign out of a nose-dive and created the necessary "galvanizing energy."

Your critics had suspected that your activities, both in the war, and in years following, were prompted, at least in part, to an intense political ambition, even as you addressed your Yale law school graduating class with an anti-Vietnam War speech shortly prior to enlisting in the U.S. Navy. Your career in the Senate has revealed your all-consuming ambition, but that is quite typical of politicians.

[jpgray]

13. Actually, going to Vietnam is not typical of politicians

.

[Tinoire]

49. I follow you and admire that

but can't reconcile him authorizing Bush's War Resolution. Are you anti-war or even against this war from the beginning? If so, how do you reconcile him going from anti-war spokesman to handing his congressional powers to declare war over to Bush?

What was he against for the Vietnam War that didn't apply here? Just the 'legality' of it? This is the part I'm not following with Kerry.

[Submariner]

59. I didn't like his vote either

I reconcile it by imagining the position he was in when he made it.

He observed that a vast majority of the dems would probably back resolution 1441, and that if he was to appeal to the swing voters in 2004, his safest bet was to vote on the side of the Bush Cabal.

I did hear him qualify the statement that Bush had to exhaust all diplomatic means, and maybe like myself, Kerry naively believed that some sort of sanity would enter the march to war process and stop a mega super-power from militarily attacking a gutted, mostly disarmed, contained, and pathetically poor country.

I'm not anti-war if we must defend ourselves against an aggressor like Al Quada, but as we all know, Iraq did not remotely comes close to that standard.

[Merlin]

69. Tinoire, let me offer my take on this.

I know and respect your position, and know how genuine your views are. You ask a very difficult question here. As one who, as you know, shares completely your position on Iraq and your disdain for all Dems who voted for the war resolution, and as one who supports Kerry and Dean, let me suggest the following.

Not long ago, Clinton dealt with this question, I believe during his speech at the JFK library on May 29th. He said the problem is that when you are responsible for making life and death decisions for a nation, and your intelligence is telling you the nation faces a grave threat, you just cannot walk into a meeting of the National Security Council and say, "Well, you know, I don't really feel all that good about this intelligence I'm getting. I think I'll ignore it."

It brings home in stark terms the situation facing these Dems. Sure, there was a political aspect, and no doubt that was weighing heavy on their inclinations. But there was also all this intelligence they were being given--originating from Chalabi's INC and piped through Wolfy's OSP--that said there was a serious threat.

Those of us who watched this situation develop from the outside felt completely confident that intelligence was utter and complete bullshit. We saw through the neocon's manipulations from the beginning, and predicted precisely what would happen. But those on the inside had to answer the question of which side they should err upon.

So, though I think Kerry blew it bigtime on this, I am inclined to let it pass. The other reason for giving him the benefit of the doubt is I know he feels as deeply as I do and as you do about never ever letting this nation get our troops in another impossible quagmire without raising utter hell about it, which I think he's doing now.

[Merlin]

72. Likewise, Submariner.

I first heard about VVAW in about October, 1970 (?) when Kerry and another guy went on Meet The Press (back when it was THE Sunday show). In just a few minutes he had convinced there was another way to see patriotism. It wasn't just waving the flag. It was doing the very difficult task of trying to persuade people when we were on the wrong course.

I was in grad school at Penn. Like you, I organized a chapter there, and also in Delaware County, PA. I'm still very proud of that. More proud even than of my 19 months in combat.

Good to hear your story, bro.

[cmd]

14. I know your pain

I, too, would love to see DK as our candidate. I just don't think it can happen. Though my heart is with Dennis, I support Kerry for the good of the order. I believe he is the most electable of the candidates: war hero, peace advocate, articulate. He is the anti-Bush. I know he has the Iraq vote hanging over him, and that that is a turn-off for many around here; however, that vote could get him support from many of the fearful citizens. I'll deal with it. Good luck in making up your mind.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. Notice that the attacks

Notice that the attacks that are levelled here at DU at Kerry would only hurt him with other Dems. It's as if he's being accused of being electable.

[Tinoire]

50. Thanks for the good wishes.

I'm going with DK all the way to the primaries for reasons I won't get into in this thread but need to get started for the Presidentials now. If DK doesn't make it and Kerry does, I want to start getting a clearer idea of who Kerry is now. You know how deeply I'll start digging to make sure! There are a lot of things about Kerry I like but I don't understand how he went from A (Antiwar spokesperson) to B (Patriot Act, War Homeland Security).

Thanks and peace to you.

[quinnox]

15. Kerry is a great candidate

He is good on the environment, and is a true liberal that has a legitimate shot at getting elected.

[Tinoire]

52. Kerry seems like my ultimate liberal

up until a few years ago. How do you reconcile the Patriot Act? WTO? NAFTA?

Because of our machiavellically designed, limiting 2 party I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt on a few issues or at least accept that no one candidate will 100% agree with my positions. But how do you deal with those three issues? And the war resolution? This is presuming of course that you are not in favor of them. Should Kerry become President, do you think he'd repeal the Patriot act? What would he do about NAFTA? WTO also. Those are all issues that I marched against and fought the best I could because they were really important to me.

Also what do you know about his stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict?

Thanks!

[blm]

16. This hits me where I live,

in my heart, my soul, and my brain.

The greatest influence in who I became as a human being and a political person was Dennis Kucinich. As a schoolgirl I volunteered for his campaign and he was my first example of what a real politician can do for the average working man and the disenfranchised. He always tried to do RIGHT by people. He lost that primary race to Howard Metzenbaum, but, his spirit shown like the sun to me. He then became a populist mayor in a big business town that tried mightily to bring him down. He fought them, prevailed to the good of the people, but was voted out anyway. The media made sure he was misunderstood. He held true throughout.

BCCI and IranContra were the first NATIONAL issues that opened my eyes to exactly what strings are pulled by whom. It was my BFEE introductory course. I heard John Kerry condemned for his diligent investigations by the DC powerstructure, both GOP and Dem. It was exactly like they did to Kucinich, but on a worldwide scale. The media made sure he was misunderstood. He held true throughout.

Mine was a natural attraction to the lone guy who faces down the giants.

I also must add...I have a bigtime vindictive streak when it comes to the BFEE. I want W and his cronies EXPOSED as the lying chickenhawks they are. I want the big lie that the Republicans are better on security and defense issues to be killed and buried for generations to come. I want Bush beaten to a pulp with the awolstick, and for every man who voted for him to feel cheated and betrayed and ashamed they ever related to the coward in chief.

[Andy_Stephenson]

18. BCCI Was a white wash...so will 9/11 and Weaponsgate....

If Kerry is elected. Plus I don't hear Kerry calling for the repeal of the patriot Act when so many other influential people are...whats with that blm?


BTW you know I cannot resist a Kerry thread...it draws me like a moth to a flame.

[blm]

21. Singing your wings, again?

Tell me, Gbnc...how do we know so much about the BFEE anyway?

The answer is KERRY.

You hate the answer, but, the facts cannot be changed, no matter what spin you put on it. Of course, if you'd like to go one record as saying that YOU know more about BCCI and IranContra than Robert Parry, then please do. In fact, I suggest you write to Parry and share your conclusions with him.

[Andy_Stephenson]

30. My opinion is quite clear for him to read here...

Kerry is the best ally Bush ever had.

[blm]

35. By your standard, so is Tom Harkin

and Henry Waxman. And, to some degree, Wellstone and Byrd. In other words, your conclusion is absurd. Kerry is the best progay candidate in history, BEFORE it was popular, and yet, you are incredibly ungracious to him as a person and as an advocating legislator.

[Andy_Stephenson]

44. Your damned right I am!

Without the basic rights guaranteed to me in the Constitution the other rights the Government chooses for me to have are irrelavent! The Constitution MUST be defended! Kerry made a frontal assault on it. Yes, I hold ANY politician Democrat or Republican in Disdain for that vote. I do not accept those lawas and do not accept those that would trade libery for "security". Do you feel safer? I sure as hell don't. Kerry has a silver spoon in his mouth...He is concerned with one thing and one thing only...The New World Order.

This is the youth Generation speaking here....

"Now that I look at the roll call (official from House, Senate, House debate, Senate debate), John Kerry voted for it too. Even Massachusetts split the vote, with Kennedy against it and Kerry for it. That's one more vote of mine the Democrats just lost to the Greens."

http://benaaron.multics.org/2002_10_01_blogarc.html

How many more people is the Democratic Party going to alienate? Shame on John Kerry SHAME on him!

[jpgray]

23. He was snubbed for the Iran/Contra committee

They threw him the Narcotics bone and he did the best he could with it. His findings (limited to the drug angle) show that the CIA looked the other way, and have been validated by two subsequent investigations.

This testimony, and similar statements to a House committee, would result in Abrams pleading guilty to charges of withholding information from Congress. (He was pardoned by President George H. W. Bush in 1992, and now serves in the Bush White House.) Then, in early November 1986, a Lebanese newspaper broke the news of US arms sales to Iran. A few weeks later, the White House disclosed that funds from the sale had been diverted to supply the contras.

Suddenly, Kerry's theories didn't seem so far-fetched. He hoped this would be his moment to help lead the investigation into this extraordinary episode. The Iran-contra scandal was the top story in town, and there was worried talk in the halls of Congress that the United States might suffer another failed presidency.

But when congressional leaders chose the members of the elite Iran-contra committee, Kerry was left off. Those selected were consensus-politicians, not bomb-throwers.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/062003.shtml

edit: grammar

[Andy_Stephenson]

34. Guess Kerry is a consensus politician now....

as evidenced by Iraq Patriot, Act and Gestapo votes.

"As to the infamous BCCI, Sen Kerry himself had a conflict of interest in that he headed a group of U.S. Senators who accepted campaign funds from the worldwide spy-money laundry-murder machine BCCI. Kerry's subcommittee refused to delve into the highly pertinent Chicago branch office of BCCI and their Chicago twin, a branch of Italy's largest bank, owned in part by the Vatican, Banca Nazionale Del Lavoro, BNL. "

http://www.skolnicksreport.com/spoliticalp.html

[blm]

41. Hahah...now...

what does Robert Parry, the journalist who ACTUALLY investigated the story say?

Kerry NEVER took corporate money in ANY of his Senate campaigns, Gbnc. Try another angle.

[Andy_Stephenson]

45. He went along to get along...

War

Patriot Act

NAFTA

WTO

Homeland Gestapo

Wow how liberal he is. :puke:

I bet he would fall over himself to vote for Patriot Act 2...He will have those from day one...to use against his political enemies. John Kerry is a turd.

[jpgray]

25. And BCCI was whitewashed by the DOJ, not Kerry

Kerry and his staff were under intense pressure, and Foreign Relations chairman Claiborne Pell, the Democrat from Rhode Island, began to request that Kerry's investigation end. Blum brought the evidence against BCCI to the Justice Department, but was rebuffed. With Kerry's blessing, he left the staff and took the case to New York District Attorney Robert Morgenthau, who filed the indictments leading to the bank's collapse in the summer of 1991.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/062003.shtml

The only candidate calling for the repeal of the Patriot Act is Dennis Kucinich. He is absolutely right.

[Tinoire]

55. Beautiful- just like you! :)

I think Kerry has a very idealistic streak and I like that. I'm loyal to DK for the reasons you mentioned and very attracted to Kerry for the things he did in the past. My problem with him is what he let Bush get away with.

You and I already had a talk about how men of power are, the things they do and why they sometimes do things that repulse us so we're on the same wave length here.

How did you manage to accept his endorsement of the Patriot Act? And handing the Congressinal War Powers over to Bush?

I can't understand that intelligent politicians did this and that now we have no record of a Congressional debate and no recorded vote on who wanted war with Iraq and who did not.

Stuart Taylor pointed out that Many members prefer to take a stand only after seeing how a war turns out, and how the public feels about it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/nj/taylor2002-09-04.htm

That thought really bothers me.
---------------------------
But aside from all of that, as Janet Jackson says "What has he done for you lately"? This isn't a rhetorical flame question. I really want to know because I hadn't been following these guys closely enough.

Peace and thanks!

[blm]

73. Blame the way congress works...

SOME legislators in the Senate and Congress are stuck negotiating with the White House. Kerry was one of those people because he worked with Clinton on Iraq in 98.

They negotiated for Bush to keep the UN in the loop and put the inspectors back in and have Bush present evidence to the UN. To extract those promises from Bush it cost them their support. Most of them wanted the Biden-Lugar bill, but, Gephardt signed on to the Iraq resolution before negotiations were completed by the others and B-L could even be voted on. But, they did their part. Bush is in deep shit today because of his over reach on the evidence that he "promised" to present.

[jpgray]

19. Here's a voting scorecard

http://www.globalstewards.org/democrats.htm

Senator John Edwards (NC)
Environment....................76%
Labor Rights...................94%
Civil Rights...................94%
Animal Rights (Pro/Anti/N.A.)..5/2/2
"Liberal Quotient".............88%
Auth for War...................Yes

Congressman Richard Gephardt (MO)
Environment....................66%
Labor Rights...................88%
Civil Rights...................89%
Animal Rights (Pro/Anti/N.A.)..2/1/6
"Liberal Quotient".............83%
Auth for War...................Yes

Senator Robert Graham (FL)
Environment....................81%
Labor Rights...................76%
Civil Rights...................97%
Animal Rights (Pro/Anti/N.A.)..5/1/3
"Liberal Quotient".............69%
Auth for War...................No*

Senator John Kerry (MA)
Environment....................96%
Labor Rights...................90%
Civil Rights...................100%
Animal Rights (Pro/Anti/N.A.)..8/1/0
"Liberal Quotient".............93%
Auth for War...................Yes

Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich (OH)
Environment....................90%
Labor Rights...................98%
Civil Rights...................89%
Animal Rights (Pro/Anti/N.A.)..9/0/0
"Liberal Quotient".............90%
Auth for War...................No

Senator Joe Lieberman (CT)
Environment....................93%
Labor Rights...................81%
Civil Rights...................94%
Animal Rights (Pro/Anti/N.A.)..6/1/2
"Liberal Quotient".............76%
Auth for War...................Yes

*Reason for voting no: said the resolution should have authorized force against terrorist groups as well: "This resolution is too timid. … War abroad will, without assertive security action, increase the prospects of terrorist attacks here at home." (Senate floor speech, Oct. 10, 2002)

[Tinoire]

56. Thanks. This is a keeper! Thanks again n/t

[THUNDER HANDS]

27. my reasons

1. He's the most qualified of the bunch.
2. He's got the most money.
3. He's got foreign policy credentials.
4. He's progressive (probably moreso than any other 'major' candidate).
5. He's got an air about him that says 'leader'.
6. He's an excellent campaigner.
7. He's an excellent debater.
8. He's about four inches taller than Bush.
9. He can attract votes from liberals and moderates.
10. He's the guy my Poly-Sci professor said is the "only one who can beat Bush."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

31. Coattails

I think we need to set our sights higher than just the Presidency. Remember every member of the House is up for reelection too. 2004 is going to be our year.

[AbbieLives]

48. also...

His voting record is comparable to Ted Kennedy's AND he made Nixon's Enemies List. I'd vote for him on those two points alone.

[Tinoire]

58. Those are plusses in my book too! :) n/t

[Tinoire]

57. Hmmm

On one hand I agree but it depends how you look at it.

Qualified yes if you go by credentials and experience but then when you get to my point where all you crave is non status quo so you can have change, then "most qualified" begs something else.

In all honesty, I like your reasons and think they stand up. I think DK could be a formidable opponent to Kerry because he'd be able to attract all the "forgotten souls" (Greens, Independent Progressives, apathetic non-voters) who wouldn't vote for Kerry.

Kerry's record, except for this last year, seems very liberal and he's always struck me the same way he strikes BLM which is why I'm trying to be more open-minded to him.

How do you reconcile/accept what he did with the War Act, the Patriot Act, NAFTA and WTO?

Thanks Magic

[a_random_joel]

36. Hi Tinoire

I haven't read some of the other posters responses, because I was sure to see some Skull N Bones B.S., so I apologize if my reasons are echoing anybody else's.

Anyways, first off I think you are making a wise move in looking beyond DK. Don't get me wrong I think he's got great ideas, but I do not think he is electable.

Also, my interest in Kerry is only slightly stronger than my interest in Dean, and lately Dean's been gaining on Kerry big time, at least in my eyes. But for now, I still consider Kerry the top of the totem pole.

1. VietNam - I have to admit,as shallow as it is, I would love to see Kerry throw VietNam in Bush's face.
2. VietNam protest - Kerry clearly appeals to many of us, because he did the right thing when he came back and protested the war - which he had certainly had the right to do having been there first hand.
3. On most of the other common issues, Kerry fits in nicely with my idealogy - moderately liberal.
4. The only mark against him is that he voted for the war issue, but I give him a pass on that considering the intelligence was faulty, and I don't think he intended to give the President Carte Blanche when he voted yes. If you actually read the resolution it states a number of criteria the Bush Admin was supposed to follow before actually going to war, which they never did.

As for Skull N Bones, I'd find it easier to believe that aliens were running the show than an elite fraternity.

[Tinoire]

60. Thanks Joel and apologies in advance re S&B

I am so with you except for the Skull and Bones thing because, eek, of all the people to being it up, I'm going to disappoint you and be the one. That really, honestly bothers me and that's because of all the research I've done into the Illuminati. But I'll save that for another time because it gets too complex- I see the Illuminati involved in the Middle East conflict for occult as well as economic and geo-political reasons.

But it's a conversation I try to avoid because you're right- it does sound totally whacko (I don't see them as just an elite fraternity- I see that elite fraternity as a rite de passage, one of many entrances to the Illuminati).

4. The only mark against him is that he voted for the war issue, but I give him a pass on that considering the intelligence was faulty, and I don't think he intended to give the President Carte Blanche when he voted yes. If you actually read the resolution it states a number of criteria the Bush Admin was supposed to follow before actually going to war, which they never did.

Well said and that's something I could buy. What worries me though is "Why"? Why did he vote for this? It boggles my mind! Everyone knew how criminally corrupt & dishonest the Bush admin is- how foolish to trust them?

Why? How could an anti-war vet who knew better trust that cabal?

Thanks and peace!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

38. He's a kick-ass windsurfer:

Debate Champ.
Long-distance biker.

[Tinoire]

62. You're kidding? !

I hate to sound silly but... wow!!! Sexy! Really sexy! And I love anyone who does anything with ocean waves!

[ferventdem]

39. why Kerry's my man

I like Kerry for many reasons:

-his foreign policy strength
-his intelligence and thoughtfulness
-his image -- he IS a genuine statesman
-his 100% rating from the HRC on gay rights
-his domestic proposals, including health care and security
-his wife -- the US needs to see a strong, intelligent, independent woman at its forefront

But one reason dwarfs all the rest:
He's the ONLY person in the field who can beat Bush. No matter our individual priorities, we must unite as a party behind the person who can win back the White House, and that person is John Kerry.

[Tinoire]

63. Thanks FerventDem

Why do you think he's the only one who can beat Bush?

See, I think Kucinich could by re-attracing all the people who left our party back, and also by attracting all the "forgotten souls" who never vote because they don't care to endorse the status quo.

What do you think? Do you not think Kucinich could beat him there? It seems to me Kucinich would get most of the Kerry voters plus the ones I mentioned. Thoughts? Oh and I like your other reasons except for security. Patriot Act really upsets me if that's what you mean by security. Not sure what you meant.

Peace and thanks

[molly]

51. I met him at a seminar before the 2000 fiasco

he gave a talk and then questions and answers. He was quick, serious, comical, amusing, INTELLIGENT and HONEST. And, he had ENERGY. I thought to myself at the time - this guy never sleeps! I wondered why he wasn't running then.

[Tinoire]

65. That's exactly how he comes across

and I admire that very much also!

On edit: Thanks ;)

[curse10]

53. I never had an reservations about Kerry

He's smart, liberal, and we share many of the same ideals. His political history has proven time and time again that he is a progressive. He's my man. I won't be supporting anyone else.

[Tinoire]

66. Thanks! n/t

[goforit]

68. Obviously you think its O.K, for Hienz to give $$$ to GOP.

Teresa's Heinz's attachment to GOP is NAUSIATING!!!!

THIS couple just won't work!!!!

(Didn't want to interupt your "rah rah Kerry")

[blm]

74. John Heinz was a liberal leaning old time Republican.

Like Jim Jeffords. Teresa is a leading environmentalist and advocate for healthcare for the poor. She is NOT responsible for the Heinz Co. which was sold a few years back, but she IS responsible for the Heinz Foundation which is noted for its philanthropic lead in causes dear to liberals.

[IndianaGreen]

75. Teresa Heinz is a better person than her politician husband

Teresa Heinz

I was reading the threads in this thread that Tinoire started, with no intentions of posting to it because I am not a Kerry supporter. Then I saw your post.

Teresa Heinz is a better person than her politician husband, by far!

Teresa Heinz is NOT a politician! She is a private citizen. Teresa Heinz once referred to politics as "the graveyard of real ideas and the birthplace of empty promises."(1) She has done more good deeds for more people than most. Before you attack and smear this remarkable woman, I suggest that you take a little bit of time to find out about the philanthropic works that Teresa Heinz has done.

In a poignant message on the aftermath of September 11, Teresa Heinz spoke about her own sense of mission:

There is a saying in my native Portuguese that translates roughly as, “God writes straight on twisted lines.”

It expresses the hope that human suffering and confusion are not pointless. There is meaning in tragedy and chaos, it suggests; and good may come from even the most brutal acts of evil…. What good, what meaning, could possibly be found here?

There are probably at least as many answers to those questions as there are people to ask them. For The Heinz Endowments, though, at least part of the answer lies in a compelling reminder of why we do what we do.

Sources:

(1) Utne Visionaries: People Who Could Change Your Life (1995). Utne Reader. Retrieved March 3, 2003, from http://cafe.utne.com/visionaries/95vision4.html

[tpub]

76. liberal yet electable

I checked out his full voting record, and his stances and voting history on almost all issues is exactly equal to mine. I have also read a lot about his life and about what his constituents think of him (see boston.com, the Boston Globe website) and the good seems to far outweigh the bad.

Most importantly, in my opinion, he is the person who CAN beat Bush. I hate that he voted for the war resolution, but that's probably gonna win over some independents/moderate Repubs.

He's smart, he speaks well, and he's calm in front of the press and the camera.

Peace