Say hello to a bottomless rage

[WilliamPitt]

The cork is out of the bottle, and I am putting a few people on notice. You know who you are, you know what you did, and a good man has gone down in no small part because of you.

Throwing sand into the gears of the PayPal donations blew Andy off the surgery rotation, casusing him to have to wait a lot longer for his operation.

Spewing the claim time and again that the whole sickness was a fraud, very publicly and on as many blogs and boards as you could find, robbed Andy of the hope and will he needed to overcome this thing.

I think you fuckers should be forced to dig his grave. I think you should be buried with him.

I kept my mouth shut about you these last weeks because every time I said something about you or to you, you got a stiffy from the attention and ramped up your viciousness again. That's over with now.

I am going to make you famous in all the worst kinds of ways. I know your names, I know your addresses, I know your IP numbers, I have screen shots and copies of every vile statement and threat you ever made. I know everything I need to know. Get ready for the ram.

You are graveyard rats. I am going to grind you under my bootheel, scrape you off with a blade, and feed you to my cat.

One note to my fellow DUers: Leave off attacking the mods and admins at that "other" site. They were as disgusted by this as we were, but were hamstrung by the rules of their board which they take as seriously as the admins and mods here. They allowed me to post the documentary evidence over there, in no small part because they wanted the ugliness to stop. You may disagree with them, but they are good people.

They are not the ones who are on my list of things to do. Those on the list know who they are. Bad days are ahead for them. I promise.

We mourn for the next few days. We sing the songs of our friend.

And then we work.

[JRob]

1. Dispicable... Go get 'em Will, I'll help in any way possible.

[wtmusic]

2. No shit

No. Fucking. Shit. :grr:

[Midlodemocrat]

3. Way to go, Will.

They should be ashamed.

[ElectroPrincess]

91. Yes, we're talking about some depraved behavior ...

trust me, I know. :( Their pack mentality spurs more vicious attacks, but this has gone too far!

Please let me know what I may do to be of service?

I want to help you pursue all legal channels to hold the responsible parties accountable.

[Name removed]

399. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

401. Surely you jest.

You shilling for these guys?

[Name removed]

417. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

423. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElectroPrincess]

421. With one "very important" difference ...

Our top 10 list is published and consists of both political and public figures, not of screen names for the expressed purpose of harassment. Their top 10 are of screen names of members registered here at DU. DU does not focus an entire forum here at DU to degrade INDIVIDUALS on specific MB.

Not comparable in the least. ;)

[im10ashus]

4. You ROCK!

Well said and yes, we will go after them. But first we mourn. Kicked and nominated!

:kick:

[ck4829]

5. Amen

Why bury them though? Even dirt is too good for them.

[dogday]

6. It's a bad time for everyone

Do what you must Will.....

[OrlandoGator]

7. Let me know how I can help.

I'm getting tired of all this "remain above the fray" bullshit. Time for some skinned knuckles.

[ck4829]

12. Me too

I want to also help.

[lapfog_1]

48. Me too! Whatever it takes. Civil suits or criminal. Or Both.

[Stephanie]

89. are you an attorney?

[jojo54]

8. Will, I can't blame you for being enraged.

I'm sorry that you're so upset and even tho I didn't know Andy and his work that well, we all grieve for him.

On the other hand.....


GIVE 'EM HELL, KICK THEIR SORRY ASSES FROM HERE TO BUM FUCK-WHEREVER AND DON'T STOP 'TILL YOU'RE SATED.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. Ahh! I love a good bloodletting early in the afternoon!

Go get em Will!!

[NoSheep]

10. Nominated and kicking.

:kick:

[Misunderestimator]

11. ...

:thumbsup:

[SmokingJacket]

13. Be our avenger, Will Pitt.

I'm just so frigging shell-shocked.

All I know is that in the coming months, we have to work on two issues: healthcare and election reform, and we'll have to pull together and blaze forward like we never have. But calling those pieces of shit to account should happen too.

We can't let them win. Not an option.

Let us know what we can do to join your posse, will.

[MelissaB]

37. Amen!

We have work to do, but people need to held accountable. Most of us can multi-task. Hell, look at everything John Conyers does. He wears many hats well, and we can, too.

[liberalpress]

283. You're looking at this all wrong...

Working toward affordable healthcare for all Americans, and assuring no more elctions are stolen is hard, work.

Kicking the asses of a few shitheads sounds like a lot of fun!

[frictionlessO]

14. Perps! The lot of them!!

Thanks for the fire in my belly WIll, I really really REALLY needed it right now.

Mourn and then ram!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BeHereNow]

15. I love you Will.

And I will help you.
I found out yesterday when talking with our reporter friend in Seattle
that Andy never ONCE, uttered a word against certain people
who had hurt him deeply. He never told a soul in a public way,
or revealed the dark deeds to anyone who might make them
public knowledge.
He was noble and suffered it all in silence when a lesser person
would have sought to expose them in order to clear his name.
He said nothing.
I know, others know and it is time everyone knew.

BHN

[LiberalVoice]

16. Kicked

I have been away for work and missed all of this happen....But I mourn for Andy and know he is now at peace.

Zak

[warrens]

17. Can my cat have some too?

He probably wouldn't eat it, but it would be nice to offer him some. Please turn these turds into digital mincemeat.

[crispini]

18. AMEN.

Go, Will, go!

If you need help, you know where to come. Right here! :yourock:

[On the Road]

19. Wow -- You Are Deadly Serious

And it's good of you to exonerate the FR mods and admins. Glad that not everyone on the other side has sunk to that level.

The Paypal thing has to break laws of some kind. Political fighting is one thing. Playing with life and death is another. Go get em, Will, and please post if you need help of any kind.

[WilliamPitt]

28. I wasn't talking about FR

[On the Road]

62. OK, I Get Your Drift

That surprised me, too.

[uppityperson]

407. Yes.

Be at peace Will. Kick their ass.

[GiovanniC]

52. Not FR... "The Site Which Shall Not Be Named"

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

92. I call it The Sphincter because of a fortunate linguistic coincidence.

That two-letter word means "sphincter" in Portuguese. And not in a scientific, neutral fashion like the English word "sphincter". It's VERY offensive here.

[Chichiri]

95. Please name that site.

Because I don't know who you're talking about. Or, at the very least, give me phonetic clues.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chichiri]

150. I got it, thanks.

[Kingshakabobo]

145. I call it "The twelve man circle jerk"

They only have something like 25 members.

[Capn Sunshine]

259. BTW "The Site that shall not be named"

That's OUR tagline here at DU for OUR website.
Not those disgusting tweaks at right wing fantasyland for toughkids.

[EFerrari]

20. I know who these cowards are.

And the only thing between their @sses and the wrath of God was Andy.

Well, you bastards can't hurt him any more. And I have some time on my hands.

[im10ashus]

Rock ON!

Truly their time is coming.

[hiley]

88. My time is open for this as well...

hiley

[EFerrari]

140. hiley

When even your gentle soul is outraged, you have to know justice must be done.

((((((((((((((((hiley))))))))))))))

[hiley]

185. They put Andy in his grave

Andy is the most sensitive soul ever and he could not take the vile attacks. I feel it was just simply to much for him...

The assholes still don't have enough decency or common sense to shut it down even now.
Justice must be served.
Beth,my love goes to all of you
Solidarity
Marilyn

[EFerrari]

305. And mine to you, to us all.

:grouphug:

[Peace Patriot]

21. Peace, Will! And I don't mean, don't fight back.

I think you know what I mean.

[madrchsod]

22. well at least the guys who run the" other site"

are on the up and up,even though a shit load of their people don`t understand what the hell black box voting is all about.
more important than all of this is that we carry on the work that was andy`s passion..."don`t mourn-organize!"

[Taverner]

23. If you need anything. ANYTHING. Just contact me

I would love to see the fuckers pay.

You know where to find me bro

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. Bullshit on the mods and admins at that site

Whether or not they were disgusted, there is the LITERAL interpretation of the rules and the SPIRIT of the rules. Once the LITERAL interpretation of the rules actually CAUSES HARM, there is no excuse.

Furthermore, the particular forum on that site dedicated to disrupting this site literally invites and encourages the malice that was directed at Andy.

I have been on the phone with a friend who is one of the top 100 trial lawyers in the nation this morning.

I would like for you, Ben Burch and others who cached the particular pages to mail them to me so that my friend can determine if this was indeed actionable. As I recall, there was PLENTY of malice PROVABLE in the communications and I think Beth has actual names and addresses of people who contacted PAYPAL...if nothing else, I would love to see these people humbled. Once we determine if it is actionable, Andy's survivors can make an informed decision on whether they would wish to pursue it.

[merh]

29. Thank you NSMA

Thank you so very much! :hug:

[Maddy McCall]

33. A-fucking-men

[Beware the Beast Man]

60. I have no pity for the mods and admins over there.

They shed crocodile tears now, yet when all this was going on, willfully let posters run rampant in an attempt to make one man's last days even more miserable than they already were.

I stayed out of this for the most part, but when I learned that a select few actually devoted a great deal of time and money in order to make one man's life a living hell, I was appalled. Forget politics, they are miserable human beings, and they will get their reward.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

64. since many on that site are Christian, their rewards will be in hell

their behavior was inhuman.

[LondonReign2]

268. Since there is no such thing as hell

we need to make there remaining living time hell right here. Screw the post-death accounting, let's have some pre-death accounting for them.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

79. Just to run down a few facts re: mods and admin at that site

Another DU'er was sent a threatening message from one of their members when he posted on that site. The threatening message contained his address in it so he had no reasonto doubt those threats. THe OWNER of that site was made aware as I instructed the Du'er to send him a very specific message.

Then there was the shit when Mari's husband was killed.

Then there was the Andy thing and contacting Paypal.

Now they have a pinned thread concerning Bouncy Ball who should indeed be concerned since she's given enough info about where she lives and these nuts have proven it isn't about entertaining themselves but HARMING us.

The general rule concerning liability is that you knew or should have known.

A very general rule about cases concerning free speech or protected speech is that one is not protected in many states if they are part of a DELIBERATE SCHEME TO DISCREDIT.

So there you have it.

No..I vehemently disagree with Will's defense of these people. They are parties to the harm whether they have cajoled him into thinking otherwise or not.

[question everything]

134. What happened with paypal?

I must have missed it, especially since I sent mine via snail mail the first time, and via Amazon - bless you, merh - the second time..

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

They delayed cutting a check as a result of one of these pigs contacting

them and claiming the cause was fraudulent (I am paraphrasing the actual facts....others have the exact timeline)

[shireen]

how long was the surgery delayed? Just curious.

There are some very cruel people in this world. I don't know how they can live with themselves.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

142. They delayed cutting a check as a result of one of these pigs contacting

them and claiming the cause was fraudulent (I am paraphrasing the actual facts....others have the exact timeline)

[question everything]

155. Thank you. That's lower than despicable

In this case, there should be a paper trail to identify the chain of events and that low life that did it.

[Carni]

297. Is the other site a right winger deal?

I didn't realize that this had taken place. That is extremely scary.

[uppityperson]

409. no.

[Democracy White]

358. I don't trust people on the Internet

I don't know what exactly is going on with Bouncy Ball but I have seen her vilified on CU.
Maybe you could tell me more, I am sure that there are some laws now about inter-state Internet stalking laws and I could look them up and try to help BB.

Dee

[Carni]

293. I felt pretty sickened when the accusatory strings were flying

I deliberately avoided the accusatory strings about Andy and his illness because I thought they were disgusting.

The few strings I did read were beyond the pale.

[johnnie]

I have to say

NSMA, you rock. :hug:

[CoffeeCat]

161. This is libel....and then some...

I'm not an attorney. However, it doesn't take a legal scholar to see that, at the very least, Andy was libeled.

From my law class---the 4 elements of libel.

1.) Publication--Was the information published (print, broadcast, etc)?
2.) Identification--Was the person named, or unmistakably identified?
3.) Defamation--Was the person defamed, harmed or ridiculed?
4.) Falsity--Is the information false?
5.) Fault--I don't think this applies to Andy. However, public figures must prove "fault." They must prove that the person knew that the information was false, but they published anyway--with malice. A public figure is defined as someone who interjects themselves into the public spotlight. Andy's situation did become public, but he didn't interject himself into the spotlight.

I think it's pretty clear that Andy was libeled.

Look at the Website--"Scamdy"--they've used his own name to create a new word that blatantly suggests that Andy is a "scam."

My gosh...how stupid are these people?

Makes me wish I was an attorney.

I've got my own plans for these people. I've got 15 years of media relations experience. From my previous job, I have a list of 1,500 media members---their names, addresses, phone numbers, fax numbers, emails and I even have personal notes that indicate how they like to rec'v story ideas, and the times of day they like to be called.

I also have a few reporters in mind--who might like this story. I placed a story with a reporter from one of the top national business magazines. She covers medical/high-tech/healthcare business stories.

I certainly won't do anything on my own. However, if anyone out there wants to work on a little project--when the time is right--I'm more than happy to contribute whatever I can. Let me know.

[theboss]

169. You can't libel the dead

Andy may have had a cause of action during his life (though he was probably a public figure at that point). Any cause he had, sadly, dies with him.

[CoffeeCat]

173. I understand you can't libel the dead...

I always understood that to mean---that a relative cannot sue for libel on a dead persons' behalf.

Once you die, libel is not an option.

However, Andy was libeled while he was alive. What about the things that were said about him and published while he WAS alive?

I'm not an attorney, so I don't know the answers to these questions.

[theboss]

178. Temporarily deleted

I may have mis-spoken.

[merh]

287. Hi TwoSparkles

Let me know if I can help you in any way. :hug:

[Mairead]

190. I believe it is actionable both as a tort *AND* as a criminal case

As for the tort, 'intentional interference with economic advantage' is the first theory that comes to mind. If I put my mind to it, I could come up with others.

And the criminal case would be the federal crime of interference with a person's civil rights. That's worth prison time, as we know.

There might be criminal options at the state level, as well.

[RummyTheDummy]

210. It is actionable

The paper I work for settled a case out of court and the person libeled was deader than a fucking door nail. Initially thats what our corporate lawyers tried to claim, you can't libel the dead. But clearly they changed their minds for fear of going to court. This is a very large media conglomerate with money to burn. Don't think for a minute there is no window for litigation here. I saw it happen with my own eyes and it can happen again.

[theboss]

228. I'm looking at Washington statutes now

Two questions:

1. Was that action started before the person's death?
2. Did the person have a surviving spouse?

I'm still trying to figure out how this can be done.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

235. actually I will tell you how

1.) yes...they deliberately started a campaign to have Paypal withhold funds by claiming the illness was fraudulent. The truth is ALWAYS a defense..so they don't have one.

2.) Technically yes there is a survivor...Andy's longtime partner, Termite...you may say that is not a survivor since the US does not recognize gay marriage...but if the case were filed in California (and it CAN BE since some of the acts may have occurred here.....then the Marvin v. Marvin case could apply as regards dependency since that palimony case did NOT distinguish as to gender...see...us gay folks can get divorced even if we cannot be married ;-)

[theboss]

239. No, I meant the court action

I think that an cause of action can survive if the plaintiff dies during the course of legal proceedings.. I'm not sure that anything outside a cause for wrongful death surives if he/she dies before the initial pleading. I'm still trying to determine that.

I don't go to court for a reason; I'm not very good at it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

243. I was looking more at wrongful death than libel

I have teams of medical experts at my disposal. They all say unneccesary delays in treatment would medically probably hasten his demise thereby creating a condition wherein the acts were contributory..you still need survivors for a wrongful death claim

[theboss]

249. That would be a nifty job if you can pull it off

Is his mother still alive? Was she dependant on him for anything?

I did read some WA case law on that; the survivor needs to be a "dependant." And since he wasn't "legally" married or had children, it gets tough.

Damages also would be a trick to pull off since he was a seriously ill man to begin with.

The fun with the Internet, as you note, is that you can forum shop like mad. I still think Washington will ultimately be the state that this ends up with.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

258. I don't know if she was dependant on him

But as I said..in many states a gay partner IS considered a dependant for purposes of insurance and/or dissolution so a case can be made...furthermore Andy was not the only one libeled..Beth, his caretaker was as well..alhtough again, I am looking more at wrongful death.

The mortality rates for pancreatic cancer are not good, but even so..1) anything that hastens, aggravates or accelerates that demise may be considered contributory

2) Since the pancreas is a crucial part of the immune system, a delay in treatment compromises the immune system thereby rendering the results less optimal

[SoCalDem]

279. Well, Andy's sister recently died, so Andy would have been a large

part of her "aid and comfort" as she aged..I don;t know if there are other living children, but if Mom is elderly and alone, she would have depended on the help of her son :(

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

296. Again..since in many states gay people can be divorced even if they

can't be married, I think there is a possible means to prove dependancy AND a survivor.

[ninkasi]

345. In addition to the shameful delay in treatment

I would think that the vicious attacks against Andy caused unbearable stress. When a person who is already ill is subjected to the extreme kind of stress caused by these sub-human troublemakers, surely that contributed to Andy's death, as well.

This whole episode has been shocking and sickening. I will never understand the motivations of people like them. Andy was a beloved, gentle soul, who made a big difference in countless lives. I only knew him through DU, but he was an inspiration to me, and to so many others.

My heart goes out to his loved ones. There is nobody better in the world to avenge Andy than Will Pitt. Go get 'em, Will, for Andy.

[Capn Sunshine]

230. Never mind--but

"The site that shall not be named "
is NOT see You

That would be us. And I won't name it here. Beacuse I respect Skinner and Earl and Elad. They prefer I not.

I was thinking of putting it on our masthead

Please folks, don't be confused.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

237. I think you think we are referencing your site...we aren't

we are referencing another site..promise...and I think you know I love and respect you enough that had the acts occurred on your site, I would have dropped you a note....and I firmly believe you would have acted responsibly

[Capn Sunshine]

244. yeah, I realized that. The confusion, my darling NSMA, resulted

from the use in the thread by a confused DUer of our trademarked registration pending catch phrase

"The Site that shall not be named"

I changed my reply above accordingly.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

248. I hear ya

I will always take any issues I may have with you directly to you ;-)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

266. Take it up with Pitt...he infringed on your servicemark

:evilgrin:

[Capn Sunshine]

269. Pitt's a member

but you know those journalist types

[Maestro]

337. Go get'em NSMA and Will and Ben Burch!

Burn'em!

[juajen]

25. May they rot in Hell!!!

I was so aghast at this atrocity that words failed me. Thank God you are doing something. I felt so damn helpless. This is a sad, sad day for all of us who loved and respected Andy, and it is horrifying to know that the actions of these idiots may have cost Andy his life.

[ComerPerro]

26. Go get 'em

[tsuki]

27. Need some help. I can type and push the send button.

And I want to help fight the terrorists.

[IdaBriggs]

30. Sign me up -- I'll join in the fight! nt

[merh]

31. I share your rage

and as committed as you are. Thank you :thumbsup:

[sleipnir]

32. Some people still don't live in reality.

They think that their actions on the site may not at all impact the real world.

Well, a few depraved people may have just led to the early death a good man who was quite needed here to help us with the good fight.

I was skeptical of donating only because other people were yelling "Fire!" In the end, though, like nearly all of us, we looked beyond the hate and mistrust and gave with our hearts. It was devastating to learn that because of the allegations, money and treatment were withheld to Andy...and now...

Well, wake the fuck up all you naysayers and miscreants, your actions may seem innocuous because of your anonymity, but the consequences are real. Andy's death proved that.

Give 'em hell, Will

[eleny]

34. I'm in

Anything I can do - I'm here. Just sayin'.

[Inland]

35. If they had brains, they'd be afraid.

But evil and stupid as they are, they won't figure out the deep shit they are in until it happens. Dumb animals all.

[mistertrickster]

36. I'd like to see this as DU's first "action item" for us duactivists . . .

but they'll probably take the high road (dang it).

Anyway, add me to the list if there's anything I can do.

[Vincardog]

163. I'll second that emotion

We need to make this the first DU activist movement. Remember we have the power.

Where ever you are get up open the window and yell out it "We are mad as hell, and we are not going to take it any more."

Time for some a$$ kicking and name taking.

Then sign up to be a DU activist and let admin know what we are going to do.

[mmonk]

38. Get 'em

[Gemini Cat]

39. Exactly.

Thank-you for saying this.

Last night I couldn't sleep, because I was going over and over in my mind what they did. The misery they caused a good person. I hope they get what's coming to them. If there is any justice in life, they will.

[KamaAina]

40. Please don't feed them to your cat

I love cats. Please feed your cat good nutritious non-poisonous food, and leave the stuff you scrape off your bootheel for the maggots. You know, "sweets for the sweet"...

[RandomKoolzip]

41. Right fucking on. I hope they all get ball cancer.

Barring that, I hope they spend the rest of their days in jail or paying off legal bills. There isn't a hell hot enough for the perpetrators of these crimes.

[bluestateguy]

42. I've always been a big supporter of revenge

Make no apologies about it either. Revenge can be a very positive thing, and that's all I have to say about that.

[seshers]

167. I'm in for revenge too...

Stolen elections, fraudulent wars, unchecked cooperate greed...

When is the time to smite those who support and perpetrate these criminal actions.

NOW WOULD BE NICE!

[sendero]

220. Sometimes...

.... revenge is just the universe's way of manifesting karma.

[mzmolly]

"Two Cases of Bile" Thought you might find this article interesting.

Note where it was posted.

This was posted June 30th, and some of the FUreeks were still spewing their garbage.

The Internet saved Andy Stephenson's life. In May 2005, the voting-rights advocate's online community came together and raised $50,000 in 11 days to pay for surgery to treat Stephenson's pancreatic cancer. Now, the World Wide Web has spawned a bizarre campaign that accuses the nationally renowned activist of faking his illness.

Stephenson, 43, who could pass for talk-show host Conan O'Brien's brother, became active on voting-rights issues in 2004 when he learned about the security problems with electronic voting. A resident of North Seattle, Stephenson frequented the left-wing Web site Democratic Underground (www.democraticunderground.com). This virtual community led him to Bev Harris of Black Box Voting (www.blackboxvoting.org), a Renton-based, muckraking activist dedicated to exposing the flaws in our nation's voting infrastructure (see "Black Box Backlash," March 10, 2004).

Stephenson brought an in-your-face activism to what had been a sleepy topic—imagine a combination of ACT-UP and the League of Women Voters. He loved to go into elections officials' offices with his camcorder blazing, demanding information on obscure aspects of voting systems and software. In 2004, he ran for Washington Secretary of State as a Democrat against Republican incumbent Sam Reed, promising to clean up the election system, only to drop out before the filing deadline. That same year, he also began working with Harris on her national campaign to make voting more secure. In the process, he established his own national reputation as a voting-rights activist. Stephenson says eventually he and Harris had a falling out, and they are no longer on good terms.


None of these setbacks discouraged Stephenson from pursuing his goal of improving the nation's voting system. In January 2005, he went to Washington, D.C., as part of a grassroots lobbying effort on behalf of the Voting Integrity and Verification Act, sponsored by Republican Sen. John Ensign of Nevada. While in D.C., Stephenson became ill with what he assumed was food poisoning. He flew back to Seattle and noticed his skin had turned yellow. He went to the Country Doctor Community Health Clinic on Capitol Hill and received treatment from Karen Johnson, a nurse practitioner, who became his primary care provider.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1434439/posts

[question everything]

147. Thank you for posting. A very fair and honest summary

and from the freeper site is really amazing. I hope that someone who posts there will thank the poster

[Uncle Joe]

264. I did not know Andy, but he was a lucky man

to have such good friends here at D.U., his time on earth was obviously well spent. I pray that the cause which he felt so passionate about honest voting reform passes quickly. As far as the freeps or whatever they are that interfered with the attempt to save Andy's life; they have diminished themselves to invisibility within his shadow.

[mzmolly]

278. Welcome Uncle Joe. Don't think we've met here.

Love that man in your avatar. :hi:

Thanks for your kind/powerful words.

[Uncle Joe]

281. Thank you for the welcome mzmolly, it is my pleasure to be here. n/t

[GeekMonkey]

43. Can someone fill me in on the Andy story?

I'm kinda new and really have no idea what this is all about.

Kindly point me to a summary of the story.

[mistertrickster]

96. I'm probably not the most knowledgable person on this--but here's

how I understand it:

Andy was a West Coast activist investigating computerized voting. This new form of voting is obviously vulnerable to hacking, mischief, and it has no "paper trail" allowing for recounts--made to order for massive voter fraud. Further, the computerized voting machine industry is dominated by hard-right partisans.

Andy originally teamed up with the Bev Harris organization (Black Box Voting), but they had a falling out, and he went his own way.

When he got cancer, he had no health insurance. His only hope was a rare surgery in which Johns Hopkins specialized. They required 50 grand up-front before they would take him as a patient.

Thanks to internet contacts (DU being primary), he successfully raised this sum. I personally sent him a (small) check.

As this process played out, several disruptors emerged that sought to throw a wrench into Andy's appeals for help. They claimed that his cancer was phony and he was raising money fraudulantly for personal gain. These lies caused a huge hub-bub among web-site users who had no real world evidence one way or the other.

The admin here (to their undying credit) intervened and got to the truth of the matter, but it took awhile--hospital records are hard to get, etc. Meanwhile, the charges and counter-charges are flying recklessly and hysterically.

At least one disruptor went so far as to make a pledge to Pay-pal only so that he could claim "fraud" to Pay-pal administrators--they then were obligated to stop any payment of ALL Pay-pal funds.

This caused the delay in Andy's surgery and additional pain and suffering that WillPitt described above.

*****

Andy's spirit is re-united with the Great Tao. May he rest in peace.
We couldn't cure his cancer, but we know we did the right thing in helping him.

[supernova]

44. Their treatment of Andy was beyond the pale

and truely despicable. If their actions were illegal, so much the better.

Go get 'em, Will!

[myrna minx]

45. There is a special place in hell for those "people." n/t

[wtbymark]

46. just give the word

and a lot of peeps here will be in your corner

[Booster]

47. Andy would be proud of you, Will. Get em, guy, and if you need

help let us all know.

[meganmonkey]

49. Wow - you're not messing around

Give 'em hell, Will.

[understandinglife]

50. You know how to reach me, Will & Beth, if you need any help.

Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - Halt terror on America; begin by demanding Voter-Verified Paper Ballots.

[Maddy McCall]

51. And the ones who called paypal and reported fraud...

which ended up delaying Andy's surgery by holding up the funds? Those plots and plans originated at two websites. That one and the one aka bev ran.

May they all live with the guilt of what they caused. It's too late for them to post a "RIP" thread and think that that will excuse their diabolical behavior. They'll pay. Either in this life or the next one. They'll pay.

[Name removed]

376. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cry baby]

53. Right beside you (as much as possible online)

My heart is heavy today for Andy's friends and family, and those of us who only knew him through his posts here.

People should know who delayed Andy's surgery and why. Shining the light on disgraceful and inhumane behavior - they will be hiding like the roaches they are.

[johnaries]

54. I went to the scam site and had to vent some of my anger.

I saw a couple of other DU'ers as well. I told them if one of them was th eone who froze the PayPal funds i blamed them for his death.

Some of them STILL want proof! Some even questioned his death - saying he might have bought an island and faked his death. :wtf:

NONE of them showed any sympathy, remorse, or any vaguely human emotion. They were more concerned about defending themselves and their actions. Totally egocentric.

I told them I hoped none of them called themselves Christian.

I can't express my anger. Go, Will!

[Carni]

304. If I do a google am I going to be able to find the site in question?

I know no one wants to say what it is here... but I am really curious because this is just about the most vile thing that I have ever heard of and I would like to go there and throw in my two cents as well.

[demodonkey]

55. Will, you rock. I stand with you. I SAW IT... FIRST-HAND.

"Free Speech" has limits of human decency, and those were crossed long ago.

I saw first-hand the suffering it caused. And I do mean FIRST-HAND.

[Catherine Vincent]

56. I am with you Will.

Let me know if you need any help from a Texan.

[im10ashus]

I am not a religous person by any means.

Nor do I disparage those that believe. But this sounds fitting.

Ezekiel 25:17.
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those
who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

I remember it more from Pulp Fiction than my bible school days.

[DemReadingDU]

76. I like this quote too, very appropriate

I did not know Andy personally, but I am deeply saddened by his untimely death, and angry that some people could have said such horrible things about him.

I want to help, I can type and push the send button, too.

[liberalnurse]

57. Will, I'm right with you on this....

My heart is broken. I can barely think today at work. I'm the boss so I get-off easy but my mind is in a swirl. These evil souls will learn what Karma is all about!

[meganmonkey]

70. hey you

did you see the nice pictures on Ben's site? Some are from the OH meetup.

Here's to Andy! :toast:

:hug:

[liberalnurse]

72. No, I'm at work and have

only time to pop in. I'll go now! Thanks.

[Ladyhawk]

144. My condolences, liberalnurse.

I never met Andy, but my heart feels pretty sprained today. I don't even know how you managed to go to work. I had trouble getting to sleep last night and the bed still looks plenty inviting. I don't know how you managed to get up. It was probably the healthy thing to do, but I'm in awe.

I'm pretty much a skeptic, but let me send healing thoughts your way. I am so very sorry that Andy's Angels, his friends, his family are suffering. I am really and truly sorry.

[liberalnurse]

253. Thank you.....we are are wounded today.

I'm full of many good memories and then, on the other side, I'm almost speechless as I can't bring myself to post them yet...

I feel like waling!

[redqueen]

58. .

:applause:

Please let us know how we can help, Will.

:yourock:

[katinmn]

59. I want to help you , Will!

I'm angry, too, about many things. Thier hate pollutes our country.

The lack of common decency among some and the true evilness of others shouldn't go unrewarded or unexposed.

[benburch]

61. You know I will be useful in any way I can.

Just let me know.

[Horse with no Name]

63. As Willie said

"Grand pappy told my pappy back in my day
Son a man had to answer for the wicked that he'd done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street
For all the people to see"

Metaphorically speaking....these people need to be hung out so the world can see their evil.
I'm with ya Will.
Get em.

[lateo]

65. I had an Italian friend...

Who used to say, "I'm gonna fuck a motherfucker up!" Every time he said that when we went out there was a street brawl with me getting dragged into it.

Hang'em high Will. And if you need help PM me.

[Rainbowreflect]

66. I really don't know what to say, but I support you.

:hug:

[Just Me]

67. Count me in. Justice is past due.

:grr:

[CatWoman]

68. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4049823

[Carni]

308. Thank you Catwoman

I *get it* now.

I cannot believe this--I thought I had seen every low slimy thing possible, but then I see this.

Can't the contributors sue the individual for damages?

The intent of the donations was to get the man the treatment that he needed and apparently this low life scum deliberately thwarted their intent. Isn't that actionable?

I am speechless and enraged -- I didn't know this had taken place.

Anything I can do to investigate/ write letters etc count me in.

[thinkingwoman]

69. Go get 'em. nt.

[WillyT]

Right On Will !!! - I Currently Have A Lot Of Time On My Hands So...

let me know if there's anything I can do to help!

:mad::nuke::grr:

[Terran]

71. I know you have this thing about anger being a 'tool' sometimes, but...

I don't think this is one of those times. Think, Will. You don't have any real idea whether the things you described contributed to Andy's death. And do you think Andy wants you to spend your energy on revenge?

[WilliamPitt]

75. Not a tool. A gift.

And I know for a fact their actions were contributory.

[Terran]

84. Right, a "gift". Sorry. But:

I have to ask: how do you know this for a fact? Have you spoken to Andy's surgeon, his doctor?

[EFerrari]

87. A gift indeed.

We have a lot of documentation.

We need one attorney with a brain to give about 10 hours, maximum. Someone who would enjoy it.

[katinmn]

90. Lets go for it!

Have you asked oldleftylawyer what she thinks?

[Goldmund]

93. It's a she

:)

[katinmn]

103. oops! fixed.

[EFerrari]

105. Yes, briefly. But SHE gave me HER honest opinion

so I have to wonder about her professionalism.

Bah da bing!

That was a joke, only a joke. No OLLs were impugned in this post. :)

/dingdang pronouns

[im10ashus]

111. LMAO!

Even in the face of adversity, we manage to find some humor, and that is good. Laughter through tears is one of my my favorite emotions.

Edited for spelling.

[katinmn]

112. Haha. So is it he or she?

I was corrected saying OLL was a male so I changed the reference to She. Now what?

I'm all confused.:silly:

Hey, first time I smiled since last night.

[EFerrari]

121. I can't answer this on advice of counsel

:hi:

[katinmn]

126. Heehee! We're gonna get in trouble. You know it.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

130. Too late!

:rofl:

[katinmn]

158. BUSTED!

:rofl:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

101. see my post upthread

[EFerrari]

110. I'm bookmarking. Did see it.

Thank you.

:hug:

[theboss]

175. I've been racking my brain here

I'm not sure what kind of cause of action you can bring. Most of Andy's claims die with him. I think wrongful death is a real stretch.

Libel and tortious interfence of a contract were possibilities (though longshots) while he was alive. Now that he has passed, they go with him since no one else has standing. He wasn't married, right?

There's no kind of negligence action here.

Maybe a smarter attorney than I can come up with something.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

86. I do based on the fact pattern in the case

Andy was rehospitalized as a result of infection. The pancreas plays a HUGE part in the strength of the immune system in the body. Delaying medical care, probably DID further compromise his immune system which made him far less likely to battle attacks on his immune system postoperatively.

That then set in motion a parade of horribles culminating in Andy's demise. I think it would be very easy to get an expert to testify that that delay was, indeed, contributory...Andy did not have cancer of the pancreas (which is a death sentence) he had a tumor in the bile duct which has a fairly decent success rate if treated promptly.

[Stephanie]

102. Not true - the diagnosis was anaplastic pancreatic cancer

Johns Hopkins Professor of Surgery and Oncology Dr. Charles Yeo released the following statement to Seattle Weekly Political Editor George Howland Jr. about Andy Stephenson: "The patient was diagnosed with undifferentiated anaplastic pancreatic carcinoma and underwent cholecystectomy and pylorus preserving pancreaticoduodenectomy, sometimes called the Whipple procedure"

http://www.andythanksyou.com/

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

117. Doesn't alter the basic premise of my post since the medical literature

demonstrates the mortality rate is drastically reduced by EARLY/ PROMPT treatment in both cases

[GiovanniC]

127. I Think The Correction Was Due to That Being One of the Things Those

Scamdy trolls harped on.

Bile duct tumor VS pancreatic cancer.

[Stephanie]

135. true - the delay did not help him at all

not just physically but it was emotionally devastating for him too, as was the continued harrassment.

I corrected you, though, because the harrassers hang on every single thing we post here, and if there is the slightest discrepancy they blast it on all of their hate sights. If I had let your post stand uncorrected they would be proclaiming to the world that Andy never had pancreatic cancer etc etc - it's endless and we've been dealing with it for a long time.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

136. no worries..I appreciate having accurate info :)

[ismnotwasm]

322. It's a horrible disease with a very high mortality rate

I don't know much about what went on, but any cancer patient should never have delayed treament. Pancreatic cancer can grow like wildfire, and like many cancers, can spread quickly to other organs, making treatment very difficult if not impossible. So if those fuckers caused a delaying action they are fucking accountable on more than one level.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

118. Doesn't alter the basic premise of my post since the medical literature

demonstrates the mortality rate is drastically reduced by EARLY/ PROMPT treatment in both cases

[Goldmund]

73. Cool, but be careful and don't lose your head

Make sure this isn't gratuitous revenge, but well founded prosecution.

[Generic Other]

74. that bottomless pit where the grapes of wrath are stored

I feel your anger deep in my bones.

[mopinko]

77. you write a beautiful rant, my friend.

go get 'em.

[ryan_cats]

78. I don't know what to say

I don't know what to say, I'm truly shocked at his passing. The fact that people maliciously attacked him and delayed his surgery is truly evil.
May Andy rest in peace.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

80. amen. nt

amen.

[Democracy White]

367. sorry but what does nt stand for again?

And as for this rant, go get em Will!! This kind of crime should not go unanswered, if indeed it is a crime. If justice isn't done in this world, good ole Karma will get them sometime.

Dee

[KT2000]

402. nt means "no text" n/t

[Democracy White]

408. Gah!!! I gotta remember that!!!

[Village Idiot]

81. Hear, Hear!!!

I shudder to think of the fate of the next poor bastard who needs help from DU.

I would hope that many here (and, of course those at a couple of thoroughly despicable websites) will have learned their lesson...

...But I doubt it. Skepticism seems the order of the day, altruism is ignored and too often ridiculed...

Sigh.

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. If you need help

let me know... ass wipes will pay for their inhumaity

[dave29]

83. Amen

and amen.

[Moochy]

85. Not a violent person... but

I would love to find a way to channel my rage at these vile pustules who spent their own money to libel and harass a dying man. by buying domain names etc.

Obviously the legal route is the way to go, but there is a special wing in hell for these scumbags. Having visited hastur.com (the site that shall remain unnamed) I am only more angry.
Crocodile tears indeed, paraphrasing:

"I never wished him harm" yeah but you all sat by idly and chuckled as your fellow morons libelled him mercilessly. Good to see that some in rightwingland finally recognize the vile hatred of their brethren and try to disavow it.

Let us know, I'm sure that others will throw down for this, financially or in any other way that we can.

These fuckers must pay.

[malmapus]

94. Give em hell Will

We all lost a good guy last night, and the fact that these people did what they did....give them hell.

[Chichiri]

97. Anything I can do to help, please let me know.

In this matter, I add my rage to yours.

[Historic NY]

98. I love to punch them in the gut...........

the weeks of their vile postings and claims it sicken me. Go get them.

[PleadTheFirst]

99. Give them hell, Will.

And let us know what we can do to help.

[bear425]

100. Will, I was disgusted by their actions, too.

There's a special place in hell for those vile creatures who slandered Andy. ***They most definitely contributed to his death.*** If you can bury them with your evidence, I say do it. Let me know if I can help.

[Bouncy Ball]

106. After the shock of hearing Andy wasn't expected to

make it through the night, after feeling incredible sadness at it all, I thought of those bastards. And I think I'm being nice in just using the word "bastards."

If they had one ounce of a conscious, they'd be feeling pretty damn shitty right about now.

But they lack a sense of shame, a sense of right and wrong, so I doubt they are.

They are truly nasty, evil people. I hate to say that about any human being, but look who they worship--the evil one himself, Chimpy McCokespoon, "troubler of the poor world's peace...."

[SmokingJacket]

107. kick. nt

[mr blur]

108. Nominated and kick

[Cats Against Frist]

109. I was waiting for someone to make a post like this, so I could respond

to this entire situation. I have to admit, other than normal, human compassion, I don't know Andy from anyone else, and I didn't donate to his cause, and I would have never thought bad of anyone who didn't choose to, AND recognized the graciousness of those who did.

However, when the speculative shit started to hit the fan -- I asked myself? What gall did that man have? Does not everyone here have problems? Do people not have health insurance, all over America? Do people who don't own houses in a nice Seattle neighborhood die in the streets, everyday, from all kinds of horrible diseases?

I believe in humility, and being humble, to me, is not PRing your self, all over the web, for donations for surgery. I realize that it was a feel-good cause, and it could have very well saved this man's life, if done in a timely, orderly fashion -- without detractors.

I agree with you, Will, that the detractors were mean and disgusting, and should die like pigs in hell. There's no reason to intentionally derail something like this, but at the same time, I, tempted to donate, asked myself OVER and OVER. Why Andy?

Andy has(d) a house, and the Internet, and a car, and a partner. That's a hell of a lot more than a lot of other people have. Maybe some of this angry energy should be focused on something else, rather than getting so wrapped up in avenging this man's death -- particularly when there's much more work to be done.

I'm sorry. And I'm sure this will garner more attention than I want. Maybe someone even said it before. I am sorry about this man's death, and didn't want to say anything -- but if this is where the rhetoric is going, anyway, I feel better saying it.

[katinmn]

113. wow, odd statement

"PRing your self, all over the web, for donations for surgery"

Very out of place, too. Most innappropriate here and now, especially, IMO.

[Cats Against Frist]

131. I don't think there's anything wrong with donating

I guess, when you have resources, I just have a problem with going all over and asking for money. $50,000 is a lot of money, and people have said that he had assets totalling much more than that (though, I have not personally confirmed this). It's more of a rhetorical question, I guess. Something just bugging me, a little.

Like I said, I wouldn't have put this in any of the Andy tribute threads, or anything. I figure this is a vainglorious thread, anyway, so might as well just post what a normal person, who isn't a freeper, IS caring and responsible, and confused about this whole thing, might be.

[katinmn]

141. Are you into self-flagellation and degradation?

Have fun.

[Mairead]

205. "when you have resources [you shouldn't] ask for money"

That's a very Capitalist idea, that is, that a person should have to beggar themselves when they suddenly find themselves up against a massive medical emergency; that it isn't okay for them to say they're in trouble, or to accept with gratitude whatever monies the community feels like giving.

That idea doesn't make sense to me, but then I'm a socialist and in favor of socialising the cost of medical care. Which is what happened here, in a tiny way.

[SmokingJacket]

223. I don't think any "normal person" would be confused about this.

Andy made a lot of friends here. Why? Because he was a sweet, charming, intelligent, hilarious person and activist. I loved his posts and came to look up to him: I wanted to be as good an activist as he was.

His friends wanted him to have the surgery. And some people who didn't know him were moved by the story and wanted to help. I don't think most "normal people" do a little calculus when called upon to help someone else out. "Hmmm... Andy's going to have an enormously expensive surgery, he's a great guy and great activist, but he does have a house, so maybe there's someone else out there MORE DESERVING I could send my ten bucks to..."

People want to do good things. What's so confusing??

[Vadem]

365. The thing is that Andy didn't ask for money for his surgery! We ...

at DU who love him started the paypal account so that those of us who were able to donate to Andy to save his life were very happy to do so! If you don't have a job and you don't have insurance, you don't sell your house, if you can help it, since that is your only anchor from the bankruptcy police.

We love Andy because he was working for us to prove that all of our elections, since 2000, were stolen by the right wing Christofascists who own the voting machines. If we don't get rid of those voting machines owned only by the Bush contributors, we will NEVER again have a democracy, which includes both Democrats and Republicans and Independents.

God love you, Andy! Tell my Barry that I love him!

[goodboy]

386. .

[datasuspect]

291. self-delete

[Bouncy Ball]

114. I always got the impression it was his friends

who were asking on his behalf, but I wasn't following it too closely in the beginning, so what do I know?

[Stephanie]

208. that's exactly right

his friends initiated the fundraiser after Andy got accepted at JH but learned he would have to come up with the $$ right away

[flyarm]

406. please get this straight..Andy never asked for anything!

it was the kindness of some of his friends who decided to help him..after all isn't that what we humans are supposed to do ..help our friends?? i know thats a lost concept for some these days..
at the same time so many were pouring their love and money into helping Andy, my husband was flying cross country to st louis to help a family with a child with cancer for a fund raiser..so should they have not done a golf tournament to help their child?? and they had health insurance..should people have witheld helping them since .. why their child?? since others don't have insurance or a home??

when do we as americans and humans not throw caution to the wind and put our hearts ahead of our somewhat thwarted opinions...and just help another human for the sake of simply helping someone we care about and respect, and in some cases love??

do we need a book for that..or certain rules to guard ourselves from maybe getting more out of giving than taking..or thinking to damn hard about giving for the sake of caring and just giving a damn about someone else???

i give because i can..nothing more nothing less..because i am human , and i like giving to others so they can have hope ..so they can get a few more days..so they can feel loved, there are many reasons to give..there is no litmus test to it..you give because you damn well want to..i wish i could go back to the days in this country when one gave because it was the good thing to do..instead of having to explain to others how to be a human being!

you are entitled to your opinion, and i do not judge others opinions, or i try not to,but may i suggest you take a long look at your humanity while you evaluate your opinion..

[tavalon]

342. That's correct

Andy never asked.

Edited to add: But he did thank as many people as he could, personally, until his strength ran out.

[cry baby]

116. "I feel better saying it." - so glad YOU feel better...

pity - how small your world must be.

"Why Andy?" - why not?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

123. It will garner more attention for the lapses in logic than anything

Please elaborate on how Andy taking any and all steps necessary to save his life lacked humility?

Please elaborate on how Andy having more than others is anything other than a non-sequitur?

I think you will be getting the attention and scrutiny you deserve.

[WilliamPitt]

125. Well, that's what's important.

You feeling better.

Perhaps he should have just withered and died as a means of showing the kind of righteousness you seem to hold claim to. To wit: He should die because other people have less.

Why Andy? Because he was my friend. Because he got more done in his short time on earth in the name of good than mopst puddings walking the planet get done in their whole lives. Because he was a patriot. But mostly, because he was my friend.

You believe in humility, and being humble. Practice what you preach and save the self-righteous speculation as to why Andy might not have wanted to die, and why we wanted him to live.

[Cats Against Frist]

138. Will, I know why he wouldn't have wanted to die.

I understand the gravity of cancer, and the seriousness. I want to know why I couldn't press the paypal button. It is not lack of compassion, on my part. I understand his friends rallying for him. If that's all it was, and it was a "friend" thing, then fine.

Perhaps, a more personal explanation would be permissible. I had a friend -- in Seattle, no less -- with no health insurance, who got cancer, because he couldn't have regular check-ups. He was an upstanding person, and my friend, and did a lot for people. He had nothing. And he died with nothing.

In my hometown, recently, there was a flyer for a kid, who has cancer, and his parents rent a trailer. He was just a little guy. They were taking donations for some procedure to help him.

I'm not trying to say anything -- I don't know what I'm trying to say. I'm sorry for you, and I'm sorry for Andy, and his family. This question goes a bit beyond that, though.

[WilliamPitt]

146. How about this

Your friend did not have a group of people who could effectively raise enough money to attempt to save his life. Neither did the boy on the flyer.

Andy had such friends. Perhaps, just perhaps, you should focus on the positive aspect of this - that there was one man who had friends who tried to save him.

[Cats Against Frist]

159. OK, Will

I'm sorry for your loss. Maybe you're right.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

172. You're trying to say you couldn't donate because you judged Andy

and now you are trying to purge your guilt and pretend everyone else is screwed up.

No worries....

[Cats Against Frist]

183. I never said that, and you know that

I had nothing about which to judge him. The question of the potential resources is just unsettling to me. If it is true, that he had more resources, I don't feel guilt. If I walked down and donated $50 to an organization that feeds children, I would do more good than donating $50 to a well-off individual. Maybe that's what I'll do, to square this all away. I'll donate money to a children's cause, in Andy's name.

[theboss]

218. Emotions are good, Will, at times

The web is fine for emotional outbursts, but here they touched real life. Maybe keeping your emotions in check would be a good thing. You lost your head early in this story, posted a huge rant, and probably caused Andy more trouble than anyone else at this site.

Now, you've gone flying off the handle in the other direction. And I'm not sure that does anything good for Andy's memory either. And getting mad at another DUer's legitimate - if possibly untimely - questions don't help him either. Especially when those questions echo what you yourself once asked.

I still think a lot of this could be have been avoided if a lot of people took deep breaths at the beginning and asked for help.

[Quixote1818]

262. You make some good points.

None of this is black and white as many would like it to be. We are all human and we all make mistakes perhaps even some well meaning DUers. This was a complicated situation. People should be slow to judge without all the facts.

[merh]

295. Your posts miss some very important facts.

This was a fund raiser conducted for Andy by friends that found out he was in need of the money to have surgery to remove a cancerous tumor from his pancreas. It was an effort of love.

It was done while Andy was ill, very ill, and it was done in a very short time span. Could it have been done better? Yes, anything done by humans can be improved upon given we are not perfect creatures.

The errors did not detract from the basic fact that Andy was ill, needed surgery and needed the money to have that surgery.

I don't recall receiving ANY pmails from ANYONE doubting the facts or questioning any aspect of the fundraising or Andy's needs. Go read the threads and you will see that DUers came together and joined to help a friend. What we did for Andy was remarkable and it scares the hell out of others. If we can do this for a sick friend, imagine what we can do for our candidates.

That you don't like all aspects of the fund raising or that mistakes were made does not justify the personal attacks on a dying man or his friends. That you can continue to post to the effect that we are responsible for their hate is wrong and your positions are without justification or reason.

[AlCzervik]

133. So if Andy didn't have a car and house you'd be ok with it?

"Feel good cause"? Do you resent the attention paid to someone with cancer?

[Cats Against Frist]

149. Honestly? Probably.

That's the answer to the first question.

And, I don't resent the attention paid to someone with cancer. That doesn't make any sense? Are you asking me if I wish I had cancer, so I could get some attention? My mother just had this disease, and one of my best friends just had a cancerous tumor removed. If you see, in my above post, I had another friend, who died.

People who are sick should have attention paid to them. But this was an all-out, netwide fundraiser for a person who had resources. Maybe that's it. Maybe I've just said why I was having a hard time with this.

[katinmn]

154. Quote: "That doesn't make any sense? "

I do see where you are coming from now.

It's about the overwhelming attention and the love directed at Andy. It is a wonderful thing and I hope you can come to feel the same some day. There's lots of love to go around.

[AlCzervik]

157. "His resources" obvioulsy didn't cover the treatment he needed

and by your own post is sure seems that you resent the attention he got.

[Cats Against Frist]

160. I don't understand that, at all

It's not about resenting attention. I don't care about any of that. I can ask "why did one person get such attention," without it having anything to do with me. I digressed, above, and will here.

[AlCzervik]

165. it's about resenting something and damned if i can figure it out

[noiretextatique]

177. well, his death should put the question to rest for you

and since you are speculating while his friends here are grieving, i'm sure you can understand why that's inappropriate.

[Cats Against Frist]

186. This is not a grieving thread

this thread is about revenge, righteousness and zeal.

[noiretextatique]

195. that's doesn't justify what you are doing

and i do believe anger is a part of the grief process. perhaps that explains your behavior.

[Sydnie]

250. You can not judge how one chooses to express grief

Some of us cry and clutch mementos to our breasts. Some of us get angry for what has been and what could have or should have been. Some of us cry for the loss of that persons life while others cry for the loss of that person from our life. Some of us do all these things, in our own time.

You can not presume what is an expression of grief for someone else. Your post here, IMHO, was crass and unthinking. Presented as a hypothetical, perhaps it might have been given a serious lookie-loo. Presented in a thread about someone that many, many of us have just begun the process of sorting out our feelings about a man that we loved is opportunistic and shallow.

Heaven forbid you should ever find yourself in a similar situation with as little a dime in your pocket. What would you do then?

I donated to Andy and would do it again. Did he have more assets than I do, probably. But, as I said then and still believe now... I am trying to hold on to a lifestyle while Andy was trying to hold on to his life. I could do without (fill in a personal secret pleasure here that aids in the enjoyment of my life but is not necessary for my survival) to see that he be given every chance to be here next week, next month, or next year. I live paycheck to paycheck, fighting off one wolf at the door at a time, but I would be less of a human, less deserving of the space I take up and the resources I use had I turned a blind eye to someone in crisis, as Andy obviously was.

Andy sacrificed much for our democracy and in doing such, for me. It was the least I could do for his humanity. I didn't know Andy personally, but I grieve his loss all the same. I feel for his family and especially for Termite, who will be left to pick up the pieces of what is left of his life alone. Perhaps instead of getting our help, he should have just made sure that Termite had to bear that burden, both financially as well as emotionally, alone. Or perhaps we should have left his mother, who had recently lost another child, to bear these burdens alone as well. Yeah, that would have been the compassionate thing to do.

I am sure Andy's family will be comforted by this thread now. So glad YOU feel better.

</end rant>

[tavalon]

348. So, are you saying that if he sold his house and his car

and left his longterm partner with no house or transportation, then you would have felt okay donating?

We did what we did out of love and caring and it had nothing to do with Andy's checkbook, which, I suspect had little in it, since he was an activist and activists rarely have much money at all. But, I, for one, never asked and don't give a fuck. I gave what I could and I gave freely.

[Stephanie]

226. It happens all the time - benefits and fundraisers for people who are ill

I am invited to one this weekend - should I ask to see her tax returns before I buy a ticket?

==============

the first ever
COLON AWAY party...
a Benefit for >name redacted for obvious reasons<

THIS SUNDAY,
JULY 10th,
8pm
at THE SLIPPER ROOM
suggested donation $15
*****The Slipper Room REQUIRES Government Issued Photo ID For Entry*****

>name redacted< was diagnosed with colon cancer and
will be saying good-bye to her colon in August.
Being fabulous herself, Miss >name redacted< decided the best way
to get rid of her abusive colon was give it a party like no other.

STARRING:
AXIS DANZ
LITTLE BROOKLYN OF STARSHINE BURLESQUE
DA LIPSTIXX
GO-GO GIRL JEN & GO-GO BOY OLIVER
ERIN AND HER CELLO
with comedian ERIN FOLEY as your Master of Ceremonies

MUSIC PROVIDED BY:
DJ DECKER
MP3J TIMMY

RAFFLE PRIZES TO INCLUDE:
Yankee, Mets Tickets and MORE
SPECIAL SILENT AUCTION TO INCLUDE:
candid photos of the cast of "Sex and the City,"
Elton John, Gwen Stefani, Paris Hilton, & More!

****************************************************

[SmokingJacket]

254. that's amazing !

If I ever have to deal with anything as horrifying as colon cancer, I hope I can face it with such humor and energy as this person.

[Stephanie]

280. I don't know her - my friend is performing -

but I take it she is a fabulous downtown diva

[merh]

306. He had cancer - what the hell?

Do you think one of the premiere surgeons at Johns Hopkins would have operated on him and performed the Whipple on him if he didn't have cancer.

Cancer killed him. You need to stop visiting those bad sites. They will make you believe falsehoods and lies.

[merh]

139. How can you make such assumptions?

How do you know what you state is true, what are your facts? I believe your assumptions about what Andy had available to him and the state of his wealth are just assumptions. And you do know what they say about ass umptions, don't you? :freak:

You do seem mighty familiar with details of Andy's life. How odd.

[Cats Against Frist]

164. People were angry when they thought he was not being honest

I did some research. Maybe all my facts are wrong. If so, I'm wrong.

[merh]

187. He was honest, he was honestly sick with cancer and afraid to

die.

The fund raising was conducted by his FRIENDS - he was too sick to worry about it. Folks don't know how sick he was before the surgery because he stayed active and posted cute little comments when he could. Because he cooked a meal for the sweet lady that let him stay at her home and he fixed her shower.

You did research? What research pray tell? Was it at those other sites, because that is the crap they spew while neglecting to prove it, they have no back up to support it.

And how could you have that moral dilemna about the paypal donation, about clicking that button, if those sites with all of their twisted truths and distortions didn't crop up until they were so ate up with jealousy that they couldn't stand what had been done for one of our own, after the fund raising? How did you know to do the research about Andy's so called "possessions"?

Your facts are wrong.

[Cats Against Frist]

191. Well, can I ask one question?

Did he have a house, in Seattle, that he could have liquidated, and a car?

I did not want to get into specifics, but, as long as you're telling me that I'm wrong, I want to be sure that I'm wrong about what I might be wrong about.

[EFerrari]

197. I don't know the answer to that.

But, are you saying that Andy should have gone homeless to get healthcare?

The slimers claim he lived in a mansion. Do you smell a lie here?

[Cats Against Frist]

201. No one should have to go homeless to get healthcare

Liquidating a house in Seattle, would not make one homeless, by any stretch of the imagination, mansion or no mansion. And, for the record, I'm smart enough to realize that he probably didn't live in a mansion. Just remember, a 2-bedroom Craftsman in Fremont would probably sell for a half a million dollars.

[EFerrari]

204. The equity wasn't there.

*sigh*

If anyone really realized how HARD it was to get any hospital to take Andy's case on, as a cash paying patient AND then to try to raise the funds, they'd know to their toes NO ONE would ever do it if they didn't absolutely have to.

[NC Beach Girl]

260. what?

How was a guy who was fighting cancer supposed to deal with the hassle of "liquidating" his house? Would it sell instantly? At the least it's a 30 day process and that's when someone buys it the second you put it on the market...in the meantime, let's hope that there was actually equity and not just a huge mortgage going on.

Oh..but everyone who owns a house actually "owns" it outright, right?

Selling a house is commonly known as one of the most stressful things that you can go through, and I speak from experience here..but you think it was OK for a very sick person to jump into that process.

This is ridiculous reasoning ..maybe you should stop criticizing the actions of a man who was fighting cancer and who was lucky enough to have a large group of friends come to his aid to help him because we were all so grateful for the work he had been doing to fight for fair voting practices.

[knitter4democracy]

288. Have you ever dealt with that?

He had a few resources, and your claim is that he needed to use all of them to hang onto life, not leaving anything behind for anyone he loved or leaving anything left over to live on. That's crazy!

Btw, selling a house and not being able to buy a new one, seeing as you need all the profits on it for healthcare, would leave someone homeless.

Frankly, I don't think my donations to people need to be vetted by a CPA. If someone asks for money, often they need it. He wasn't some televangelist or crazy TV guy asking for money--he was a very, very sick man facing death. I may be rather new here, but I gave because he needed it. I was suprised it wasn't more than $50K, actually.

Question: do you give to panhandlers on the street, or are you worried they'll spend your money that you just gave to them "incorrectly"? What if they're not really poor? What if they actually have some resources? Why do you care?

[merh]

207. You know, I didn't ask him about the house he lived in.

Was it his or did the man he loved own it? Was the home Andy's or termites? Was the car Andy's or termite's?? I don't know. Do you? You are the one claiming to do the research.

I had a friend that had no money to pay for his surgery, the surgery necessary to save his life. I didn't want him to die, so I helped raise the funds. I didn't ask him to show me the deeds to the house he lives in, the registration for the car he drives, the statements from his bank. I took his fears and concerns as legitimate and the money I gave to him were my gifts to my friend. The time I spent assisting in the fund raising were my gifts to my friend.

It is so said that you have lost the ability to live by faith or how to trust people. It must be very hard being so cynical. Envy of what was done for Andy has fueled the hate fest. I pray the envious ones and those that "wonder why Andy deserved the money" will find peace and forgiveness.

On the last day, Jesus will say to those on His right hand,

"Come, enter the Kingdom. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was sick and you visited me." Then Jesus will turn to those on His left hand and say, "Depart from me because I was hungry and you did not feed me, I was thirsty and you did not give me drink, I was sick and you did not visit me." These will ask Him, "When did we see You hungry, or thirsty or sick and did not come to Your help?" And Jesus will answer them,

"Whatever you neglected to do unto one of the least of these, you neglected to do unto me!"

[RummyTheDummy]

424. What's it to you anyway?

So people donated money to a cause they believed in. What's it to you? It's their fucking money. It's not yours. Its theirs. Fuck your "research" and fuck you.

[flyarm]

426. you are wrong..

andys partner has a home, a very small home in seattle..and the rest is none of your damn business, nor anyone elses..like i posted above ..when we were doing the fund raising for andy my husband flew across country to a charity golf tournement for a child with cancer, those people had a big expensive home and could afford to do a celebrity golf tournament for funds for their insured child with cancer..so are you saying.. andy with no home , his partner has a home..did not qualify for his friends doing a fund raiser on his behalf because we did not do it at a country club?

well see darlin if andy had had the time i could have invited you to my husbands country club and made you feel better about our fundraising on andy's behalf..i could have even bought you a drink..but i may have wanted you to choke on it first!

darlin people give to others for all sorts of reasons..most of all being human..

may i suggest you go to the country club and have the pro dust off your humanity??

[Vadem]

373. The only ANGRY people were the ones from FR and Scamdy.com...

Perhaps you are also from one of those sites????? I don't appreciate your questioning those of us who love Andy and wanted to donate to try to save his life! What is it to you, whether we donated or not, to Andy????

If you don't like it, get the hell off our DU and get over to FR where you belong!

[Cats Against Frist]

392. Oh (replace this with any number of expletives) you.

That's exactly what you don't want -- is for anyone to question the fact that a bunch of people used channels that OTHER PEOPLE PAY FOR to solicit donations, for someone who's been raised to cult status, on a message board, when people have problems, every day -- with a FUCK OF A LOT LESS.

I've tried to be nice about this -- even if it is "inappropriate," timing. Andy's Crusade didn't just impact Andy and his friends, or the people who donated. It impacted perfectly well-meaning people who visit this site, and had to go through the fucking drama (which is still continuing), when other DARE I SAY IT more important things are going on, in the world -- and people who are JUST as deserving as Andy die, everyday.

It's tragic that he died, and it's tragic that cancer has to happen to anyone. But, everyone's got friends, pally-o, and everyone has problems.

You talk to me like that, and you're going to get it right back. I've been civil. You are not going to call me a freeper, because I question what happened. You're not going to shut down discourse, like the fucking freepers, because something is being said that "you don't like."

I've gotten several PMs and e-mails (from members who have been here from sometime -- not newbies) from people who support the questions I'm asking, but are too scared to say anything, because of responses, like yours. They know they'll just get jumped on.

I said it, because it bothered my conscience. You can think whatever the fuck you want about me, but it seemed crass, to me, to be asked, as activists, Democrats and DU Members, to "digging deep in our pockets," for a cause celebre of some outspoken people, on this site. Especially when the person in question MAY have had plenty of resources at his/her fingertips.

I'm sorry, but that's it. Out on the fucking table.

[flyarm]

432. excuse me but..

you did not ..."digging deep in our pockets,"

you did not dig into my pockets nor did anyone..and you obviously did not dig into your pocket..so whats your problem?? did any one make you click onto the threads where the fund raising went on??

did they?? did someone put a gun to your head or anyones head and make them donate??

no...

emphatically no!

so please spare your "digging deep in our pockets,"

your pockets are the same as they were when Andy was needing the surgery others of us felt like we wanted to help him with!

spare us you moral dilemma!

p.s...i sleep well at night having given to help someone in need!
and having given someone hope and a month longer in their life.

[GiovanniC]

148. I Doubt You're Going to Endear Yourself To Anyone With That Sentiment

It amazes me that you've "been waiting for someone to make a post like this" so that you could respond by ironically musing that a man who breathed his last not even 18 hours ago lacked humility so that YOU can feel better.

[Cats Against Frist]

151. I'm not trying to endear myself to anyone

And I do feel sorry, about his death. That's why I did not put it in an "Andy" thread, but a thread full of accusations, calls for revenge and whatnot. I don't believe the death of someone needs to cut out all rational discussion of the situation. I agree with Will, and others, that the full-on assault campaign, against Andy, was ridiculous. But maybe, there's something to learn, here. I didn't feel morally right, giving to Andy. That, as a basis for other concerns, is true, despite his demise. People here have said a lot worse things -- including his friends.

[GiovanniC]

166. Well Thank You For Sharing

We are all so glad that you have chosen, in the first hours after Andy's passing, to let us all know that you didn't feel morally right contributing to the efforts to help him. Bully for you.

I don't think there's anything wrong with people who may have had reservations about donating, especially with all the accusations flying around courtesy of the goat-fucking vats of steaming shit that this thread is referring to, but why someone would want to announce how they opposed donating to the medical fund of a guy who just passed away a few hours ago totally baffles me.

[katinmn]

184. More of life's unanswered mysteries., GiovanniC....

Why does the rare person become jealous of an outpouring of love and respect for another?

Why does the rare person want to stick it to someone's memory using carefully placed innuendo?

Thankfully they ARE rare.

[Cats Against Frist]

188. Why do people jump to conclusions as a defense?

[katinmn]

192. Did you see yourself in my post?

That's great. Recognition is the first step toward recovery.


See ya.
:hi:

[Stephanie]

193. There's no other conclusion to be reached

What possible reason could you have for objecting to Andy's friends helping him out when he was sick? The only answer I can imagine is envy.

[Cats Against Frist]

198. And the only reason that I want to help poor people

is because I am one, and I'm jealous of the rich...

And the only reason that I want to protect gay rights, is because I'm gay...

The only reason that I want to protect abortion, is because I'm an abortion-loving fool...

Right?

[phylny]

234. There *was* something to learn, and this is what I learned.

I made a very small donation ($10.00 or so) to a cause that I felt was right at the time. Could I have been bilked? Sure. Do I think I was? Nah. Does it matter? Not a bit.

My small donation probably only bought a bandage or a package of Jello for when he was hospitalized, but I spend more than $10 getting my nails done. I harmed no one in my family by making this donation (we all still ate), and it gave me a moment's pleasure.

I learned that if I live my life with the intention to help others, whether they "need" my help or not,it makes me feel kinda nice inside.

[Solly Mack]

153. So you wait until he dies to get this off your chest?

[Cats Against Frist]

199. I guess this was the wrong time -- post to all responders

Look, I'm done. It's WAY too defensive in here. I apologize for disrupting your calls for blood. (Please take this as light-hearted humor).

Nothing I wrote, reflects upon me, other than that I have questions. I was tactful, concerned, and chose to put it in a thread calling for violent retribution, which I find appropriate.

I am sorry for your loss, and perhaps this was inappropriate.

[katinmn]

202. Need to correct you: There was no call for "violent retribution"

And yes, what you write DOES reflect upon you. If not you, who?

And yes, your posts have been very innappropriate.

[noiretextatique]

216. amen

i was hoping andy's friends could get through this day of his death last night, without having to defend him from people here.
i never met andy in person, but i knew him online for 4 years and we were allies in many online battles.
i cried this morning when i heard the news, and i know many others who never met him did the same.
i am sure will is grieving also, so i understand and share his anger.
what those people did reflects on them too, and they won't get away with it either.

[bettyellen]

299. there was no call for violent retribution....

but you did repeatedly try to stir up an investigation of andy's assets.
you pretend to be offended by the shitload of lies and innuendo while adding to it?
i would have to agree you are "confused".

[Old and In the Way]

352. Sometimes it's best to quit digging the hole you're in.

Know what I mean, Gene?

[Name removed]

398. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stepnw1f]

403. Extremely Weird and Twisted

Life must be soooo horrible for some.

[Cats Against Frist]

416. I'd like you to elaborate on that

Why is my life "horrible?"

[stepnw1f]

429. Only You Can Answer That for Yourself

I'm sorry, but I charge for therapy sessions.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

213. good god man why not just ignore the thread?

really? what was the point of that?

[Quixote1818]

231. Both you and Will make good points and I think you both have good

intentions. Life is never fair and all we can do is the best we can. People wanted to help Andy because they became personally connected with him here on DU. Like you I never gave money to Andy because I felt their were more worthy causes but I could just as easily given to Andy and felt great about it. Sure their are people who were much worse off than Andy and you are probably right that they should get attention before Andy should have but giving to Andy is a personal decision made from peoples hearts. Our hearts are not perfect and sometimes we may take on causes that are not as worthy as others but in the end they are all worthy causes. Getting caught up into arguments about what the best way people can help others is a worthy topic but people have every right to help Andy if they feel a connection to him over people who come from less fortunate backgrounds. In the end EVERY good cause needs to be supported. I understand your points and can tell you mean well. Being a devils advocate should never be considered a bad thing. I hope others hear on DU will show you the respect you deserve in having the guts to give your opinion. This is not a black and white situation as many would like to make it.

[noiretextatique]

332. very diplomatic

of course, andy DIED less than 24hrs ago, so now is probably not the best time to play devil's advocate here, considering how many friends he has here. including the people who raised funds for him.
it doesn't take a lot of guts to be insensitive, actually.
and there's nothing more "black and white" than death.

[wovenpaint]

290. Begging? I don't recall any begging

Gee.....what a post.

I DO recall a community coming together when trouble hit one of it's own.

Knowing of him and his courageous work through the many postings that I've followed, I felt honored to be able to help him with my small donations. I believe that it was the very least I could do for an American patriot.

Godspeed, Andy.
Go get em, Will.

[goodboy]

393. I'M SORRY, BUT WHO THE F*CK ARE YOU???

Where did you come from? I have my suspicions.

[Cats Against Frist]

413. You can call me a freeper

if it makes you feel better.

[seshers]

115. Your cats deserve better.

Go get 'em, WP. Let me know if I can help.

I love reading your posts and your sentiment rings loud and clear with me.

[donheld]

119. Go to it Will

What they did was unforgivable!

[grace0418]

120. Can someone PM me details please?

I've read a lot of vague posts about all that happened with Andy over the last few months but I don't know the details. I know you don't want to list them out here, but could someone send them to me? I've wanted to know for ages what this was all about. I don't know what that other site is (apparently it's not FR, n'est ce pas?) and I know certain people were involved in casting doubt on Andy's condition but I don't know the motive, the players, and the facts.

I would really appreciate it, as I've been donating to Andy as much as I could and I am heartbroken about his death. Thank you.

P.S. I'm happy to forward this info to anyone else who is as confused as I am. Unless I'm the only dumbass.

P.P.S. You rock Will. Thank you.

[grace0418]

162. I'm not the only dumbass, people have been asking me

to forward them the information as well. I know those of you "in the know" are terribly busy mourning and getting ready to take action on this. But if you have just a few minutes to give me the info, I will PM it to others. We want to help in any way we can!

[EFerrari]

168. grace, I just can't do details today.

But this sink scum hounded Andy from sickbed to sickbed, with their lies and insinuations. It's just the worst thing I've EVER seen in my life.

[grace0418]

194. I understand.

When you have a chance, or if someone else can step in, I would appreciate it. I've felt so lost for months and I kept putting off asking because I figured I'd wait until Andy got better and well...

:(

[EFerrari]

221. I'm so sorry.

((((((((((((grace)))))))))))))


We'll talk when we can. They lied and lied and lied. Tried to stop our fundraising, tried to upset the organizers, tried to stop Andy from getting or benefitting from his treatment.

They saw what we were doing and they hated the care, the love and the strength of this community. And tried to distrupt it no matter what.

They can't hurt him now.

[grace0418]

224. Right back atcha

They can't hurt him now, but we can hurt them. Or at least their cause.

[Catherine Vincent]

211. Same here. I have never witnessed something as tragic as this.

:-(

[myrna minx]

251. Grace...

http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0527/050706_news_andy.php

Here is an article that may help.

PS-you are not a dumbass. :hi:

[grace0418]

369. Thank you!

I did read this article before but lost the link, so thanks for posting it. I know about Fred Grady and the whole BBV thing (although I'm not clear *exactly* what happened with that), but I still don't know about who else Will is referring to (he said it wasn't FR). Slowly I'm filling in the missing pieces. Thanks for your help in that.

:)

[sweetheart]

122. Anger is a part of mourning

It really hurts to lose a loved one, and one of the first
steps in the grieving process is to get enraged, to blame something
for taking away our friend. And we beat our fists on the apron of
god, crying and furious to give us back our beloved.

After hours and hours of fury, days when the tears run dry and we
see that our loved one is dead still dead. And then we must ask
in our heart of hearts, what is the truth that our dead friend
would have asked as a dying wish.

Would it have been to memorialize his life by crushing some cockroaches?
Would it have been to achieve recordable physical ballots in elections?
Would it have been to love and make goodwill with a smile
when so many have failed to discover that.

And still he is dead, and for all the fury, will not come back.
and After the years go by, cold shrunken hearts want to extract
justice from the stupid and the evil... but in reality, Andy's
life was not about stupid or evil people, and part of the
power of forgiveness is to shed them from our lives, to forever
remove them from our hearts and our memories of our friend.

I admire your fury Will, but he's in gods hands now.
I hope you bring justice to things, and remember that part
of justice is forgiveness and memorializing our loved ones
with acts of love and not vengence.

peace,

[prairierose]

124. You go, Will....

these people deserve punishment both here and now and later on.

:grr:

OTOH

:grouphug: for all of Andy's friends

[chomskysright]

128. SIGN ME UP TOO!!

[Walt Starr]

129. I agree with you on everything except

the mods and admins at that other site. They are as complicit as those who attempted to murder Andy.

[PretzelWarrior]

132. you've got bigger fish to fry. get to it.

your comments are a bit over the top. you should collaborate with O'Reilly on some great fiction thriller.

I've respected your views on many subjects, but for you to go after people and BLAME THEM for someone's death is ludicrous.

[warrior1]

137. Bless your heart Will

I'm behind you 100 percent.

[paula777]

143. I am so sorry you lost your friend .... ben, lala, and others who were

close to him. I am just so very sorry. Life is just so unfair sometimes.

[Zorra]

152. These "graveyard rats" did a truly unspeakably wicked thing.

They are right up there with some of the ugliest, rottenest, most putrid diseased slime in the universe. Right up there with sociopathic serial child molesters.

We can hope that these creatures feel remorse at what they have done, but it is probable that the pathetic little shit maggots that perpetrated these vile acts are genuine psychopaths and have absolutely no morals and are therefore incapable of remorse.

They really do need to be publicly shamed and held accountable in the hope that their "nasty little selfs" never do anything like this again to innocent people. In this way, despite the fact that they lack any semblance of a conscience, our society can protect itself from them by being aware of who and where they are at all times.

We can put up posters with their pictures on them so that we can all know when they are in our neighborhood.

Then at least we can keep our children safely away from their stench and the corruption of their presence.

I really do pity and feel sorry for these petty little creatures, and I know that this rant sounds cold and compassionless; nevertheless, the fact remains, they must somehow be prevented from harming more innocent and good people.

Because, realistically, any "person" that did what they did is obviously capable of committing the most heinous acts conceivable.

My God, how can they possibly live with what they did?

[Quixote1818]

156. I hope Mike Malloy is raging on this tonight as well. nt

[Walt Starr]

170. Everybody should read another thread here on DU

This one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4049823

It links to a story about what Will is so pissed about.

[Renew Deal]

171. And Will has a big cat.

;)

[kcwayne]

174. Is this the twilight zone?

Will, you made a very public accusation about being deceived by Andy or his supporters, demanding accountability for your "lost credibility" when you went on the line for him. Your accusations, which you made without talking to Andy played a part in the restriction of the flow of funding, and added to the problem for which you are now saying you will seek revenge.

Fine, just put your head under the boot first.

[WilliamPitt]

189. I did indeed

and got the answers I needed, and apologized in a dozen different places, and cleared it all up with Andy personally. My questions played no part whatsoever in the restriction of funds; that is a bullshit and baseless accusation.

[kcwayne]

200. It is hardly bullshit and baseless

A lot of people on this board respect what you say and respond accordingly. Your postings added to sense that something was wrong with the veracity of the message put forth about Andy's plight.

How can you possibly suggest that the firestorm you created did not cause people to reconsider whether or not they would contribute money to the cause? Your strident tone, words, and bitterness about how you had possibly ben duped added to the concern that a scam was going down? I had already given money to Andy. Your post made me reconsider whether I had done the right thing, I am sure I am not the only one.

[WilliamPitt]

212. Something was wrong

and I found out what it was. What was wrong was 15 different people walking around with little bits of the whole story, and then posting them here in little bits, lending the sense that there were fifteen different versions of the truth. That scattered approach was a lot of the fuel for the assholes who went after Andy. It also created a sense for me that I and the others who helped with the fundraising had been jerked around regarding the facts.

I posted what I posted, and after that people stopped posting little bits of this and that. Once I established what the actual facts were, and made sure that I was part of the information loop, and apologized for blowing up to Andy and to everyone else involved, the people attacking him lost their main source of conspiracy data.

I felt like a bastard, but I had reasons for doing what I did.

[SmokingJacket]

227. I was impressed that you apologized.

It's pretty rare these days for ANYONE to ever admit they were wrong, so I think you get a kudo or two for that.

The episode taught us all a little something.

[noiretextatique]

229. get the bastards, will

i was one the people who thought you were wrong the first time, but i am 100% behind your efforts this time.
anger is a teacher as well as a gift...

[Quixote1818]

236. I was wondering about that.

I was trying to remember exactly what happened but I do remember a thread by Will that stated he was confused and wondering what was going on and he seemed to be questioning Andy's story but with reluctance. I don't remember too much more than that though. I think John's Hopkins privacy rules made it difficult for people to figure out what was going on. Those privacy rules became more of a problem to Andy than a help to him. I think Will was sincere in everything he did though.

[VTMechEngr]

176. Amen

Can you file under a Washington libel law or an intentional harm law?

[Samurai_Writer]

179. You have said what I have been feeling all day...

only much better than I could have, Will. If I can help in anyway with this project to clear Andy's name and punish those who contributed to his death, just let me know.

[meisje]

180. more DUrama

[Dave Reynolds]

310. Thanks for weighing in,

that was most helpful.

Now fuck off.

[meisje]

414. Wahhhhhh Wah

[Shakespeare]

314. "My nasty little thread got deleted, so I'll come shit all over this one"

:eyes:

[helderheid]

181. Thank you Will

[Mairead]

182. Don't you love your cat???

What an awful thing to talk about doing to the poor soul!

And don't talk about burying them with Andy, either--they hardly deserve the honor.

[eridani]

362. Indeed! How could you even THINK of poisoning your pussycat?

You ought to know that we take our puddytats (and other furry family members) vewy, vewy seriously here on this board.

[newportdadde]

196. I never doubted Andy even after I read your other rant Will.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3672828

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3674057

That thread alone stirred up a lot of crap and caused a lot of hurt for a lot of folks. Time to move out of the glass house if your going to throw stones.

[EFerrari]

215. Whoa, just whoa.

The difference between DUers like Will who felt responsible and concerned and these motherless @ssholes was very clear to me, anyway.

They wanted their concerns to be addressed.

The slime wanted to hurt Andy, even second hand by attacking his supporters.

There's really no comparison.

[WilliamPitt]

217. How about this

From May 18th:

===

Various corners of the web have been buzzing with rumors and stories about the status of Andy Stephenson. I, myself, started something of an ugly firestorm on the topic on Tuesday when a bunch of seemingly contradictory information came my way and caused me to question exactly what was going on. To wit: There were allegations made that Andy was not in fact suffering from pancreatic cancer, and that the fundraising blitz done in the last weeks was based upon less-than-accurate information.

After two long days of phone calls and emails, I have come to a few absolutely concrete conclusions. First, Andy does in fact have pancreatic cancer, and is a long way from being out of the woods. Second, there was no bad faith, exaggeration or ill intention whatsoever in the process of raising money for him. Third, and perhaps most importantly, the confusion that has burst forth in the last several days on this issue stems from the simple fact that the people involved in this process have never done anything like this before - raising large amounts of money from anonymous people on a website - and that several people of good faith were publicly posting parts of the story here and there on the web, lending the impression that there was more than one version of the truth floating around.

The details, of course, are more complicated than these straightforward sentences, but the details lead back to the same conclusions.

Back in February, Andy was diagnosed with a tumor in or around his pancreas. Subsequent doctors, subsequent tests and subsequent diagnoses confirmed this. As in any medical situation, though, the specifics of the diagnoses and prognoses changed from doctor to doctor. Anyone who has ever been sick, or dealt with someone who was sick, knows how this kind of thing can be fluid. A couple of weeks ago, thanks to the help of friends, Andy was put into the system at Johns Hopkins, the premier facility for this kind of disease.

The explosion of confusion surrounding this situation took place, in a twist of rotten irony, because of a piece of good news. Andy got a test at Hopkins that revealed the tumor to be ‘encapsulated.’ I am not a doctor, and the details of why this was better news than originally thought are beyond my ability to describe with any coherence. Yet the fact remains that the worst-case scenario was a little less pressing after this new test.

But when this news was posted as an aside comment on the web, word began to spread that Andy was not, in fact, afflicted with pancreatic cancer, and that the fundraising efforts that were based on this diagnosis were done in bad faith. I, myself, reacted to this badly. The very public proclamations of pancreatic cancer which I and others were told to make did not seem to jibe with the seemingly offhand revelation that this might not be the case.

I suddenly got a whole bunch of messages from other organizations which had likewise supported the fundraiser. If the facts were different than originally stated, they feared, it would be a blow to their reputations and would harm their ability to raise money for their own causes. They feared, in short, that they had helped to sell a false bill of goods, and had done so in no small part based upon my word on the matter. I raised, not to put too fine a point on it, a good deal of hell after this.

Here’s the deal: The new test revealing the ‘encapsulated’ tumor was misunderstood by many, including myself, as meaning the situation was far less serious than originally stated. The misunderstanding came, in no small part, because the people describing the test results (along with myself) know as much about medicine as I know about flying a stealth fighter.

Rather than try to blast through everything, better to address the most-asked questions that have come up.

1. Does Andy have pancreatic cancer?

Yes. The news he got last week may well auger towards a better outcome, but it is still pancreatic cancer and is still very, very serious. Frankly, we are at the point where the doctors will not know exactly what they are dealing with until they get in there and have a look. Once they do, there will be one of two possibilities found: A cancer that can be dealt with, and a cancer that cannot. The surgery is slated for next week, but could conceivably happen sooner if there is a cancellation on the Hopkins surgery schedule.

2. Could Andy have had this surgery somewhere besides Hopkins?

Technically, yes. He could have it in a number of places, but the fact remains that Hopkins is the best place to deal with pancreatic cancer. The odds of a favorable outcome fall off the table when procedures like this are done elsewhere. Andy’s doctor, apparently, is a Jedi Knight of a surgeon who has developed his own version of the Whipple procedure that is less invasive. Bear in mind that not too many years ago, pancreatic cancer was a no-doubt death sentence. He is lucky to be there, and we are lucky that he is there.

3. Is the surgery going to cost what was originally claimed?

Yes. We managed to raise an eyelash above $50,000 for this, and every penny of it has been needed. In fact, once the chemo and recovery process starts, this merry-go-round is going to start up all over again…albeit with wiser and cooler heads in charge of the process.

I am more than a little disgusted with myself for the part I played in causing all of this confusion. I hope that this will serve to put any questions to rest, so that we can focus on what is important: Pulling for Andy as he goes through this wretched situation. He is in Baltimore now, surrounded by friends, and is well cared-for. When more information comes along, I will let you know.

As an aside, there are some out there on the web who have used this situation as a means to attack Andy because of his work on election reform, or because they just don’t agree with his politics. To say this is disgusting, ghoulish and beneath contempt is to put it kindly. My posting this isn’t going to stop them from continuing their wholly despicable campaign, sadly.

For those who require more proof than what I have provided, Andy has begun the process of setting up a spokesperson with HIPAA permissions to deal with and make public pertinent documentation. You aren’t going to get everything, because 99% of this isn’t anyone’s damn business but Andy’s and his doctor’s, but enough proof to silence even the most pestilent of critics will be provided once the HIPAA process is done.

http://blog.pdamerica.org/?p=50

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

273. Except Will's post was made AFTER the damage was done and funds

delayed so it really didn't alter the outcome one way or another...but nice try

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

274. Except Will's post was made AFTER the damage was done and funds

delayed so it really didn't alter the outcome one way or another...but nice try

[SlavesandBulldozers]

203. sign me up.

nt

[stepnw1f]

206. I Feel Bad for Those Who Stepped Over the Line

NOT:evilgrin:

Go get 'em Will!!!!

[redacted]

209. Couldn't agree more.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

214. One last fine point on this "our rules versus theirs" stuff

Some of the rules on this site exist because Skinner is clear, and rightfully so, that if posts on his site cause harm to befall another he MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE HELD HARMLESS....a point that Jim Rob and Rob "I am not a" Crook should also learn...and soon I hope.

[EFerrari]

225. Presupposes a capacity to learn.

:eyes:

[Chicago Democrat]

219. Amen! This is so sad...

So Andy did get delayed because of the money? That is evil.




I am so sorry he didn't make it. I am so sorry.

[Chicago Democrat]

222. Add me to the list to help!

I can email and write letters.

[greenbriar]

232. you said it Will

Thank you and let me know how to help

[KyndCulture]

233. My blood just boiled. Thank you Will.

Go get em, in all our names...karma is a motherfucker and she's coming for them, I know she is.

[WilliamPitt]

238. I am going to ask the mods to lock this

The accusation has been raised that this thread is 'about me,' that I am grandstanding. Rather than dive into that fight, I think it best to park this.

For the record, however, I didn't have a thought about myself when I posted this. This is about Andy, whose central motivation for survival was the chance to nail these assholes to the shed. He's gone, but I intend to see his wishes fulfilled. This is also about all of the people who posted above, who feel the same way.

So that's that.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

247. I request you not do that

Yeah you took some accusations..you always do...furthermore, you did start a thread a while back that didn't help matters but it was LONG after the PAYPAL acts had occurred so timewise it does not matter.

Either way...don't shut down the discussion..hit the alert on personal attacks if you must

[ElectroPrincess]

267. That's the problem with some Right Wing Boards ...

is that they can say *anything* demeaning about *any individual* on another board as long as they are a Liberal Democrat. These sick, sadistic personalities are then urged-on by the other hate filled personas who feel empowered ONLY when they are pushing people DOWN.

Some boards even dedicate whole sections (forums)to generating Top 10 lists of DU screen names in their seemingly never ending attempt to demean individuals on our (DU) board.

If that isn't a clutch of sociopaths, I don't know what constitutes the title. It's sad and sick to read the bile spewed at their hate filled MB. Their swarm-like hatred and piling on competition for crude insults is comparable to a mob without any sense of civility or moral restraint.

Lord of the Flies = certain RW Message boards?

Yes, that's about right. :(

[Chicago Democrat]

315. I crave and relish honesty....please keep thread open... We Support Will!

I stand by you and we need to take this to the world after we stop crying!

[Goldmund]

256. Huh?

Andy, whose central motivation for survival was the chance to nail these assholes

I hope -- I KNOW -- this was not Andy's "central motivation for survival".

Rather than dive into that fight, I think it best to park this

I support you in this fight, but it's impossible to get into the fight you want to get into (as described in your OP) without first diving into that one. As you may remember, I was also with you then when you were asking questions.

You need to clearly define who it is you're after now, other than the vague "these assholes". You obviously aren't including people who raised well-meaning questions. You're including people who maliciously went after Andy to harm him.

But the line between the two needs to be unambiguously drawn if you are going to have the fight with "these assholes".

And the drawing of that line is the fight you have to dive into first.

[EFerrari]

261. We already know who the ringleaders are.

That work is already done. We know who these anonymous cowards are who wanted Andy's most intimate information -- so they could use it to attack him.

[Goldmund]

265. I meant more in terms of a qualitative distinction

What EXACTLY is it that distinguishes those of us, Will included, who asked questions, and those whom Will wants to see underneath his boot sole? While Will and 99% of questioning DUers made sure the questions were reasonable and never claimed to definitively think Andy was a scammer, some people on other sites did. Are they now in our crosshairs, if all they did was post their opinions on the Internet? Or did they need to do something more substantive -- like reporting "fraud" to Paypal -- to deserve this distinction?

Of course, I have my own thoughts on this, but I think it's fair to afford Will the opportunity to define that since he has, by the virtue of this thread, assumed the leadership of this fight.

[WilliamPitt]

271. Intent

People who asked questions because of legitimate concerns regarding the fundraising process, and because of all the diferent information that was flying around, know who they are and should be at peace about asking.

www.scamdy.com

These are the people who should be worried.

It's pretty straightforward, actually. Legitimate concerns vs. a deep desire to do harm to a sick man.

[Goldmund]

277. Gotcha, thanks

"Intent" is an abstract thing for everybody but the one who intends; his or her actions are the only way to gauge that intent.

So, it's people who specifically started web sites to attack Andy, including "activism" such as drafting an FBI report. I agree that this likely implies ill intent.

[EFerrari]

272. I'm sure you have your own thoughts about this.

And I leave to enjoy them.

[Goldmund]

275. What does that mean?

:shrug:

[emdee]

240. I don't blame you...

I did not know Andy but have looked at several of the discussions both here and at FR and that other site. What they did is despicable. Why in the world would they devote so much time and effort to be so horribly mean and uncaring?

Expose them, WilliamPitt, for what they are. I'll help if I can.

emdee

[goodboy]

241. I've been fighting those fuckers since May 11th, and I haven't even

begun to fight.


I'm ready.

[tsuki]

323. So you have. I have been watching. You go, and if you need someone

who can type and hit send, let me know.

The real tragedy in this mess is that according to Bush we are the richest Country with the fastest growing economy, and we can't take care of our people. Elsewhere in the first world, this would not have been an issue. Here, health care is. That needs to change. 45 million uninsured and rising under the NeoCon agenda.

[area51]

242. You go, Will.

Expose the subhuman vermin to the light of day.

[Alizaryn]

245. Well now ...

Will had questions and doubts as many of us did at different points, it was inevitable with the amount of garbage that was thrown around. He expressed those concerns and then clawed his way to the answers/truth.

Some poisonous, defective, empty piece of humanity premeditatedly disrupted Andy receiving medical care for no other reason then needing to feed their empty soul with a hatred spree.

How can you even think about comparing doubt to poison?




Father forgive them, for they know not what they do...

[Chicago Democrat]

246. This really is a national story...

Needs to be picked up... We could do that! Start with The Nation?

[WilliamPitt]

255. Start with truthout

[1monster]

252. Don't feed them to your cat, Will. They would poison it. The time honored

rite of purification is by fire.

[baby_mouse]

257. GO GET THEM.

Set about them with a bitter will, my friend. Hound and harry them.

May their dreams rot and sicken in their SIGHT.

[sybylla]

263. We've got your back, Will, NSMA and the rest

I lost track of all the details long ago but I know enough to join your battle enthusiastically.

As an atheist, I proudly shout to the heavens VENGEANCE IS MINE.

:grr: May they rot from the inside out like the heartless, souless carcasses they are. :grr:

[In_The_Wind]

270. united we stand against a common foe

:kick:

[theboss]

276. Two (well three) final thoughts on this

1. I corresponded with Andy a few times on here. He seemed like a perfectly decent gent. I'm sorry that he passed; I hope the he finds a better place. And I feel very sad for his friends, loved ones, family, partner, and anyone else he touched. The pain to lose someone so vibrant so young is awful. Many of us have been there too.

2. It's important to learn from things. The main thing is that maybe there was a better way to do this from the beginning that wouldn't have caused so much hoo-hah. As other people said, fundraisers are done everyday in every small town in America. Someone obviously knows how to run them. I think in the rush to get Andy the care he needed, a lot of doors were left open that people with agendas could step through. I don't think a day or two of planning would have hurt here. The surgery still took weeks to unfold. Next time, someone needs to go to the local Elks' Club or Lions' Club and ask them how they do it.

3. Always remember: the Internet is not a nice place. If you are going to post under your real name - like Andy and Will - and be controversial, you are going to make enemies. And enemies can hurt you out here. So, tread carefully.

[jonny_durango]

282. Thanks for fighting the good fight, Will

Will,

My family and I were close personal friends of Andy's for years. We met you at Chang's mongolian grill in Seattle, I believe it was the first time you met Andy in person. Anyhow, I'm glad to see you are taking up the good fight.

Unfortunately I'm going to give the moderators of the "other forums" hell because they keep removing my posts which are critical of some of their members, specifically those who attempted to disgrace and discredit Andy in his darkest hour.

Anyhow, please put the heat on these fuckers....you know as well as I that Andy would want these pigs to pay.

If you need ANY help, anything at all, let me know.

I hear you are a candidate for giving the eulogy at Andy's service....I hope to see you there!

Jonny Durango

[crispini]

324. Welcome to DU, jonnny_durango.

Not a happy occasion but nevertheless thank you for joining us. Please come back often! :hi:

[Missy Vixen]

284. As said earlier in the thread, anger is a gift

I am happy to help you in any capacity possible. Let me know.

Julie

[Vinca]

285. I know there are awful people in the world and I know they

were vile when it came to Andy and Paypal, but the sad fact is, very few survive pancreatic cancer, even if it's diagnosed and treated on day one. In fact, everyone I know who has had the misfortune to have it has died. That said, I don't blame you for being mad. I just hope - eventually - we can channel the rage more productively into the causes Andy stood for. Wouldn't he want that?

[grasswire]

286. as bad as it is..........

...keep in mind that pancreatic cancer is rarely survivable. When it has been diagnosed, it is almost always too late for anything to be done. Thirty days it was from the time of my mother's diagnosis to her death. That's close to the norm.

Rage at those who libeled Andy and obstructed his care is right -- they caused him a lot of worry when he didn't need it. But a week or two weeks probably wouldn't have made the outcome better, sorry to say. It's a horrible disease that breaks too many hearts. Visualize the finding of a cure for those yet to come. It could happen.

[Mandate My Ass]

334. I know the stats too, and I know this is anecdotal but...

I worked for several years in a cancer staging section of a major metropolitan university hospital always ranked in the top 10 in the country for cancer care.

Admittedly I am neither a health care worker or scientist, but one thing became abundantly clear to all of us who worked in that department, including the docs -- the ones who consistently beat the odds were the ones who were able to rid themselves of all the negative noise and surround themselves with positive, supportive people.

When I think of the many inspirational people I met there, I think of Andy because there were actually two criteria that made a quantifiable difference, the second being those who felt they had positive contributions ahead of them, and were determined to make them.

Who knows, maybe he was terminal from the get go, but now that I know the score I firmly believe the hounding and smearing must have sapped strength he could have used for healing. Either way he is gone way too soon.

[grasswire]

366. no argument there

Andy was diagnosed in April. Ninety days is the usual best-case prognosis for pancreatic cancer, I think. What a miserable disease.

[goodboy]

289. They're saying "bring it on" look:

ee
Mail Room Clerk


Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 56
Location: North East West South Dakota

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Andy Stephenson DIED last night at 9:27 PDT Reply with quote
MistyMemory wrote:

Will Pitt threatens all who questioned Andy's fundraising:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4049596 (remove the http://mistymemory.forumsplace.com/urljump.php?url= after clicking on the link, then press go).


Is that all they know how to do?
Treatening" I know who you are. I have your IP addy. ect..ect.."
I say "Bring it on"
BTW threats of guns don't bother me....
_________________
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything

http://mistymemory.forumsplace.com/message32.html

[flyarm]

309. that sickens me..

to quote this..

"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything"
from good boys post..



well they wouldn't know truth if it slapped them in the face...

i did not read but a few things they said..i was a little busy at the time..

but what i read was total hog wash...

andy did come out of recovery totally aware ..and into icu and he did talk on his cell phone..so they are full of horse shit..

not for long but he did talk to a du'er i wont name names ..but i was there and i heard him talk on his cell phone..andy had a young nurse..and she did not object..it was me who suggested he try to rest and not use the phone after that call..but he did talk on the phone, i was standing next to him when he did..and these assholes were saying you could not use your phone in icu..well thats a lie..it is not the norm in many hospitals but people walked around jh talking on cell phones everywhere..

in fact that night my cell phone rang in the icu and i stepped out of andys room and talked on mine for a few moments..there were no curtains or doors on that icu..

and half of what these people said was nothing but bullshit!

to me these monsters are nothing but pond scum!

lying filthy pond scum!
one of them even had the nerve to go to the families and friends of jh pancreatic cancer web site asking about the price of surgery at jh..please do not go there ..that site is for people trying to help one another dealing with this disease..and grieving..stay away from it..please..but one of these pond scum was going there to where people are really hurting and tried to get info about andys surgery..i deflected as best i could..it infuriated me..i would go there to try to get info on what andy could eat and what was going on with him..those people are the true heros of the world!

and the idea that one of these son of a bitches would go there for their sick aganda..is to me beyond the pale...let them rot in hell..hell will be too good for them!

go ahead you damn freepers freep that...you can not hurt me more than i am today with my friend gone!

i have never believed in revenge..and i honestly do not know how i feel about it today..because i feel too numb..but these assholes should be held accountable..so they can never bring this kind of pain on anyone so ill again or the people who have cared so much to help their friend..or the caretakers should not be put through what these sick son of a bitches did!

pardon my typos ..but i got angry writing this..

and i don't want to be angry...i want to remember my friend and his smile and the joy he brought to those around him... it hurts too much to have lost him...fly

[Stephanie]

329. you're right, sweetie

everything you said is true. you're right.

[emcguffie]

292. It's absolutely surreal.

Truth stranger than fiction.

They should be incarcerated, shouldn't they?

I guess the internet has provided an opportunity for the commission of crimes previously unimagined.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

294. OK..the people on that site are cracking me up

Point number one: Regarding your armchiar lawyering, I find it humorous that you are all quoting a retired LIBERAL Supreme Court justice in defense of yourselves on the matter of libel. Yes, freepfucktards...it was a LIBERAL judge that ruled you have to prove malice.

Point number two: You will find out about my expertise concerning this area of law soon enough since there are more parties than Andy that actually have GOOD CAUSE to come after you.

Point number three: The costs alone of defending yourselves will shut you the fuck up for a good long time.

Point number 4: Your little piece of shit sites are not without guilt in the matter....you libeled MORE PEOPLE than just Andy....go read Burnett vs National Enquirer...

[Dave Reynolds]

298. Fuck those mods and admins,

their existence is an affront to decent human beings, along with the pus-bags thatposted their vile shit there.

They all need to suffer.

Every last one of them.

Somebody pipe me some information, and I'll fucking clean house.

[ElectroPrincess]

317. You do have a point Dave ...

People here know me as Moderate on the political spectrum. Because I was honored to serve in the US Army and believe in the 2nd Amendment, I have rightly been attacked by the far left. BUT ALSO, because I voted for Kerry, against the Iraq Invasion, do not believe in the Death Penalty and support the ACLU, I'm also attacked by the far right.

I admit to despising the *fringes* of both ends of the political spectrum. I may not be as liberal democrat as many here, but the reason I came to DU is because I was not ever called a "f**king bitch" outright nor have others readily join in to spew vile insults to my person.

Yes, I confess to not liking (yes, even, in general, verbally disrespecting) both the far left or far right. No wonder I catch so much hell?!? ;)

Yeah Dave, IMO anyone (including Moderators and Administrators) who choose to key out by screen name and spew venom at individuals should be identified for censure.

[Dave Reynolds]

321. I consider myself moderate as well,

once upon a time I actually voted for the PERSON, not the PARTY. I apologize for typing my ill-tempered outburst.

Being in the field of pathology, I knew that pancreatic cancer gives a very poor prognosis, and I knew the odds were against poor Andy, but I never would have put that down in public. Anyone who did was at best insensitive, and at worst sub-human.

I feel rage against whoever interrupted funds.

I'll stop now.

[Kelvin Mace]

300. Bev Harris

must be held to account. She started this "Andy is faking" BS and then egged on the freeper scum to attack him.

We need to make sure that ANYONE having dealings with her knows about the long list of people she has screwed and smeared.

We need to name names, with her's at the top.

[ElectroPrincess]

302. We need to do *all* this via PM

Otherwise we're as dirty as the RW sites who disrespect individuals over there.

We need to do this right - we need to do this LEGAL.

Suggest we respect Skinner's rules and keep the specific names PM?

[EFerrari]

331. Good catch n/t

[katinmn]

307. Yup. There's a group in MN that got taken in by the tumor

I'll be letting them know about her this weekend. Count on it.

[Name removed]

405. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chicago Democrat]

311. Wow.... That is news....

People can't be allowed to get away with this! Unbelievable. This is national news.

[Name removed]

379. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

313. Bev Harris sat at that other site and INCITED them WHILE

Andy was in surgery.

Oh, and she took the opportunity to smear the Kerry campaign as well.

Some hero she turned out to be. I trust her. :sarcasm:

[katinmn]

316. check out the forum that links from BBV

They have a state forum and they are sucking people in to their lies.

I think we'd be doing the uninformed a favor by giving them the heads up.

[EFerrari]

318. You're probably right. n/t

[Name removed]

385. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Boredtodeath]

430. Here's ya go, Bev

Start here, with your own email to Freeper franksolich.
--------------------------------------------------
His spouse, Ted, also has about $100,000 equity in their house. Ted is an able-bodied and very intelligent man who chooses not to be employed.

We wish Andy a recovery free of complications, and I do believe that he is indeed going in for treatment at Johns Hopkins, and that he does have significant health problems. I do not think I've seen him, personally, say that he has pancreatic cancer. That is a diagnosis put forward on his behalf by others, if I'm not mistaken. I doubt very much that he is dying, but that does not mean that he is not at risk.

I will say this: Someone in my immediate family, whom I adored, died of pancreatic cancer. We lost him in six months, he was in considerable pain, and he certainly would have been unable to travel around the country, looking plump, cherubic and rosy-cheeked, giving speeches.

Maybe it is cancer, or perhaps a benign tumor or a precursor tumor, or pancreatitis (which is no joke either). Whatever it is, I am sure he is truly sick, and I hope he gets better quickly and as painlessly as possible. At the same time, I believe he should properly disclose the actual diagnosis.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1402493/posts?q=1&&page=1101#1147

[Chicago Democrat]

325. All we need is copies of the posts and

collect it all together and report it to the national media.


This story is news.



Andy Stephenson = Death by politics. First human causualty of the blog wars? Look at these cockroaches. Bev Harris... well, well

[EFerrari]

328. We have them.

Because no matter how worried we were, we knew what was happening and kept documenting.

[Name removed]

388. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Boredtodeath]

431. Right........so this Bev email to Freeper franksolich on 5/15

hand nothing to do with it, right? So, Bev, you think he was dying yet?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1402493/posts?q=1&&page=1101#1147

[OzarkDem]

326. How awful

I had no idea she was behind so much of the smear campaign. That's truly terrible and speaks volumes about her.

[Name removed]

377. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lars39]

389. Well, hello Bev. Worried now?

[Stephanie]

400. bingo

[Name removed]

410. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lars39]

420. Details Bev, details.

That was my first post in this thread.

[Chicago Democrat]

422. you sure look like Bev!

She always talks about libel.


Doesn't she know libel laws don't apply to Public Figures?

[Boredtodeath]

427. Ooops, Bev, did you forget your own emails?

His spouse, Ted, also has about $100,000 equity in their house. Ted is an able-bodied and very intelligent man who chooses not to be employed.

We wish Andy a recovery free of complications, and I do believe that he is indeed going in for treatment at Johns Hopkins, and that he does have significant health problems. I do not think I've seen him, personally, say that he has pancreatic cancer. That is a diagnosis put forward on his behalf by others, if I'm not mistaken. I doubt very much that he is dying, but that does not mean that he is not at risk.

I will say this: Someone in my immediate family, whom I adored, died of pancreatic cancer. We lost him in six months, he was in considerable pain, and he certainly would have been unable to travel around the country, looking plump, cherubic and rosy-cheeked, giving speeches.

Maybe it is cancer, or perhaps a benign tumor or a precursor tumor, or pancreatitis (which is no joke either). Whatever it is, I am sure he is truly sick, and I hope he gets better quickly and as painlessly as possible. At the same time, I believe he should properly disclose the actual diagnosis.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1402493/posts?q=1&&page=1101#1147

[Chicago Democrat]

301. Its almost like murder, isn't it?

Lying! to prevent a sick man from raising funds needed to save his life?


Its like Manslaughter but premeditated. If its not illegal, God is not gonna look kindly in the afterlife. I AM SO GLAD I AM NOT THEM.

[EFerrari]

320. I want to respect Skinner's site and not make any claims.

And the behavior I've witnessed in the last 9 weeks or so is about the worse thing I've ever seen.

I've never met any pedophiles or wife beaters, for example.

[Warren DeMontague]

303. It's hard to believe there are people walking around with so much bile

in them... How would you sleep, or even look in the mirror, when all you carry around is the type of hate that would cause you to spend all your time slurring, slandering, and making life more difficult for a very sick man?

I tend to think Karma comes around to bite such types on the ass in the end, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't pursue any and all legal recourse available in the meantime. Best of luck, Will.

[mcar]

319. I have long wondered how any of these repukes can sleep at night

What they did to Andy is the straw that broke the camel's back. I didn't know him, but for reading his posts on DU about his activism, but I grieve for his loved ones.

I've lost loved ones to cancer but I can still only imagine what his loved ones are feeling right now. Not only have they lost a dear one, they and he had to deal with this bitter, twisted, vindictive hatred.

I have always believed that what goes around, comes around. In this came, I hope it comes around very soon.

[bettyellen]

312. thanks will

it's unfucking believable that their response now is to blame andy himself as well as all those who tried to help him.

[Rex]

327. These are the people Mike Malloy calls flesh eaters!

They truly are the undead, hell bent on destroying every living thing! It's horrible!

[KoKo]

330. I understand your angst ..............

I feel it too. But, you sound like a "Freeper" in this post. As a long time DU'er who loved Andy I am appalled at what the RW has been doing.

And, I've got my own bottle of wine "uncorked" and have been drinking, liberally. BUT...understanding your angst...which is like mine...I find this a little OTT...But...hey...if I have another couple of glasses tonight in my gloom and sorrow over Andy and our other DU'ers who have fallen..I might be back here "Applauding to the N'th" what you say!"
From Will Pitt:
I am going to make you famous in all the worst kinds of ways. I know your names, I know your addresses, I know your IP numbers, I have screen shots and copies of every vile statement and threat you ever made. I know everything I need to know. Get ready for the ram.

You are graveyard rats. I am going to grind you under my bootheel, scrape you off with a blade, and feed you to my cat.

We all grieve differently...I understand that.
Peace....to you.....

[Cocoa]

333. this is vile

no one killed Andy.

These are some of the most disgusting words I've seen at DU, and I don't care how many people support them.

It's utterly wrong, and you all know it, and many of you will launch all kinds of invective in my direction for saying it but it's still wrong.

And the worst thing is that many people here know exactly what I'm saying and are letting it happen.

[EFerrari]

336. Why is this vile, Cocoa?

I'd like to know what you think.

[Cocoa]

338. you know why it is

that's not rage in Will's post, it's hatred. It's not true and he knows it and you know it.

[EFerrari]

339. I think I need you to explain to me what about Will's post

is not true.

[Cocoa]

346. it's cheap scapegoating

it's actually frightening to see that it's tolerated here, by the members and the moderators.

Everybody here knows, we discuss it all the time, that people use tragedies to rally against the "other." And we all know how profoundly wrong that is.

No one here truly believes that any freeper caused, or even wished for, Andy's death.

[EFerrari]

350. Really. And how do you come to that conclusion? n/t

[Cocoa]

353. not a time for games

I'm giving you straightforward answers, though I realize your questions aren't sincere.

But I'm done. You can read what I mean to say, not hidden by games or bluster or temper tantrums.

[EFerrari]

356. Games. I still have no idea why you're calling Will's OP

into question.

And you're so very right. This is no time for games. It has been no time for games for effen weeks now, in case you hadn't noticed.

If you can't articulate your view, I have to respect that.

[tavalon]

357. Cocoa

There is actually a person or group who got the funds frozen in the paypal account that caused Andy's surgery to be delayed. That delay may well be what caused him to lose his life.

[Bouncy Ball]

359. Hang on a second.

"No one here truly believes that any freeper caused, or even wished for, Andy's death."

First of all, it wasn't freepers he was talking about, but people at another nasty right-wing website.

And for all I know they DID wish for his death. Have you ever read some of the stuff they said?

[Cocoa]

368. I did

and they certainly did NOT wish Andy's death. There was not a single post there that had the same level of hatred as in Will's post, where he says these people should be buried with Andy.

Face it, Scamdy.com never reached this depth of ugliness.

[EFerrari]

381. So, Scamdy

the website that bears the name "Scamdy" never reached this depth of ugliness.

So, please explain to me how this website that bears, as I type, the name of "scamdy" was not as ugly as Will Pitt's defense of his friend.

I can wait.

[goodboy]

397. of course she did...

[merh]

375. How would you know what the freepers did or didn't do?

Why defend them? :shrug:


Talk about questions. :evilgrin:

[sybylla]

351. Ever the big brother, eh, cocoa?

Gotta step in and smack everyone around, chastise and berate.

Have at it, brother. Because the evil perpetrated by the people on the receiving end of Will's wrath makes a mockery of your protests. No one killed Andy? I won't argue with that. But if you read Will's post, if you've followed what's happened to Andy throughout this most difficult time in his life, you'd know this is about so much more than that.

[espi]

360. vile

It was troubling to learn about the situation regarding Andy after it was too late to help.

It is almost impossible to comprehend the level of rhetoric being spewed forth in the aftermath. I agree with Cocoa, and regret not saying anything about this situation until now.

[stepnw1f]

395. I Smell Fear

I hope the scumbags responsible for this pay. They should. They need to understand that their actions have consequences.

So go poo poo elsewhere... I'm sure those fearless prick chickenhawks can handle it.

[Vadem]

380. Right, no one killed Andy; however, they made his last few months....

pure hell, while he was fighting for his life, yet he still found time to post on DU and keep us laughing.....I say to hell with them! Bastards! They will get their just rewards when God calls us all home!

[Mnemosyne]

335. They deserve your wrath Will, Andy was a great old soul

and would have never considered treating anyone the way they treated him.
Doubt there is any shame from their direction, but what goes around comes around, it's called KARMA.

Ignorant fuckers.

[lies and propaganda]

340. You constantly amaze me, Will.

I would be so proud to call you my friend in the 'normal' world.

Im here for any help you need, these scumbags knew what they were doing with a sick mans life. I would not be surprised by a victory high five on their parts, I just keep telling myself 'special place in hell, special place in hell."

[Bleacher Creature]

341. A little late to the game here, but whatever you need.

eom

[Must_B_Free]

343. PM me into the loop, bitte

[lala_rawraw]

344. Will...

I think you have the right to express your grief in this way and I think if it helps, then you should continue to vent. My only concern is that this will be turned against you, as these people often disregard feelings.

Some people grieve through silence, others through rage, others through tears. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to grieve. Anyone who has lost someone should understand that and should/would give you this space and not judge you or use your statements against you.

But the people who think all of this fun and games will make it fun and games using you and your grief.

You know I respect you and your work. I have no judgment on any statements made in your comments and I do agree that the mods at CU were very sympathetic and seem to be very kind in their condolences.

But I just ask that you take care not to let anyone make your grief into a tool for more hatred, since hatred is all that some of those people know. Just my 2 cents.

[Hissyspit]

364. I'm still lost, la. Can someone clue me in...

to which website. There seem to be three possibilities. I try always to stay away from them! PM me? Portuguese for translation?

[Vadem]

347. Tell us what to do, Will....We're right behind you and we will take...

those assholes down! Bastards!

[JanMichael]

349. Tear them new assholes Will, those fuckers need the reaming.

I hate them as much as I hate the neo-cons but on a personal level, fuck them to the fucking WALL!!!!

[NightOwwl]

354. I am appalled you are trying to make this all about you. n/t

You did many of the things you accuse others of in your post. So what's the point of this thread besides making you the center of attention, once again?

[roguevalley]

355. those few days might have made the difference. I hope you can

get them, William. Good luck. I don't know what anyone, let alone Andy would do to deserve what happened.

[Kerrytravelers]

361. I have an extensive email list and a really big mouth.

What would you like for me to do?

[Name removed]

390. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wicket]

363. A-FUCKING-MEN!

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

[cornermouse]

370. Time out.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but the overall impression that I got from this thread is that it rather rapidly degenerated into what appears to be a fight amongst yourselves. Sort of like what I always assumed a barroom brawl looks like.

Congressional elections are about a year away. I believe statute of limitations is 2 years?

Is it possible the best way to revenge Andy would be to take up his cause? I can't help but wonder if that might be what Andy would want?

[in_cog_ni_to]

371. I would like nothing more than to see those people publicly humiliated!

Name names and spread them far and wide! The bastards deserve what's coming to them. Go get 'em, Will!

A lawsuit would be nice. Charges of murder would be appropriate.

[Name removed]

396. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lars39]

404. You must be shittin' bricks about now.

Sweet.

[Name removed]

412. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stepnw1f]

415. No Reason To Freak Out Man

It was only a death, right? You seem a little... nervous.

[Boredtodeath]

418. No doubt

This is the same poster who bugs the telephone of a US Congressperson.

[Nothing Without Hope]

372. I thought you LIKED your cat. Those monsters aren't FIT for cat food.

I am going to grind you under my bootheel, scrape you off with a blade, and feed you to my cat.

Go get 'em, Will! Let's show those evil scum that there's a down side to enjoying hate-mongering.

[Nothing Without Hope]

374. THIS POST IS LINKED TO IN THE SEATTLE TIMES memorial article for Andy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4052955
Thread title: Seattle Weekly memorial article on Andy Stephenson: "A Fight To the End"

One way or another, the word is going to get around.

Good.

[graywarrior]

378. I would love to kick some fuckers asses, if I knew who the

fuckers were. Some PM me to update me?

Will, you so fucking ROCK, dude.

[Name removed]

394. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[graywarrior]

425. Sometimes I just need a good spanking.

[Cassandra]

382. I don't know what I can do other than cheer you on...

but you have my support. I think there are times when really vile actions should have some consequences attached. If they had confined their disgusting behavior to bitching on their own site I would have said to leave it alone, but they took their evil into the real world and adversely affected a real human being and there really should be some accountability here.
Thanks, Will

[LanternWaste]

383. Will, I've never responded to any of your posts...

Will,

I've never responded to any of your posts, however I'm an avid reader and fan of your work. Also, though I've been on DU since just after the first mis-election, I'm simply not the most prolific poster by any means (more than four years and just under 750 posts?). Additionally, I've only lightly followed the Andy's story 'cause I felt like a voyeur reading so much of someone's personal life. So, in effect, I really don't have a leg to stand on when I suggest that you...

"Slow down and think." Action based on rash decisions usually have a shit load of unintended consequences (I know this from experience- please believe this as though it were God himself telling you). Man, I don't personally know you from Adam; but I know that a smart, savvy, pissed-off journalist can destroy lives.

I'm probably pissing in the wind-- either you're smart enough to be aware of what I said already, or your pissed-off enough to do what you're going to do anyway. But if you're smart *and* pissed off, you'll slow down and think and only then, do.

Whatever you decide, good luck

[bixente]

384. Is this why a topic I posted was deleted?

I mentioned a "certain site"...and it was deleted. I may know what this..."certain site" is...

[VOX]

387. My heart is somewhere between sick and enraged...

I really thought Andy would fight through all this.

Will, I cannot even speak to your post yet -- I am so goddamned furious that I literally feel physically ill.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

391. Would the story of what happened to Andy at the end be of interest for a

60 Minutes type news story?

This could have some benefits:

-More exposure for Andy's cause, which might be the only issue that could resurrect Democracy in America.

-Deserved publicity for certain individuals.

Among others...

[paradox]

411. You have my support 100% Will.

I can't believe some people would sink as low as they did.

[meisje]

419. I imagine this post will someday be labeled "Exhibit A"

by the Plaintiff.

[Nothing Without Hope]

428. How about manslaughter?

http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/...Manslaughter
In the legal sense, Murder is the crime of causing the death of another human being, without lawful excuse, and with intent to kill them, or with intent to cause them grievous bodily harm. When an illegal death is not caused intentionally, but is caused by recklessness or negligence (or there is some defense, such as insanity or diminished capacity), the crime committed may be referred to as manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide, which is considered to be less serious than murder. In the United States, manslaughter is often broken into two categories: involuntary manslaughter and voluntary manslaughter....

(many of the terms in the excerpt have live links to their own defiinitions in the online definition.)

[EFerrari]

433. It would be a good thing if we could avoid a riot tonight.

:(

[Moderator]

434. Locking

This has gone on long enough.