East Waynesville Baptist Church in NC expells all Dem members

[libnnc]

My Mom just emailed me the news. There's no link yet.

She said WLOS tv just broke in to report that the East Waynesville Baptist church has officially excommunicated all its democratic members.

She said that before the election, the preacher told the congregation from the pulpit that if they didn't vote for * they had to come to the altar to confess their sins and repent. they could'nt be members. (My Mom doesn't attend that church--she's United Methodist, but I know of lots who do attend).

From Mom's email: "One of the local women who got excommunicated said on TV that it was like a cult. Another man who got excommunicated said that the rest of the congregation stood up and applauded as the Democrats were told to leave."

Okay, I'm officially freaked out.

libnnc

[wryter2000]

1. Jesus on a trailer hitch!

This sort of shit has to backfire on them. It has to. No one reasonable who considers him/herself a republican can tolerate this.

[Bluebear]

11. A visual aid

[Pirate Smile]

59. Your visual aid worked at first but now it is the dreaded blank red X

[sarcasmo]

336. Jesus being towed by an SUV now that's a little Irony don't you think?

[Roland99]

211. Nominated for Homepage!!!!!

[dissent1977]

394. Time for them to lose their tax-exempt status.

EOM

[Pacifist Patriot]

438. You've got that right!

[dissent1977]

399. Why don't some DU members attend their congregation...

I don't live anywhere near NC so I could never make it, but I would love to see a story about this church getting flooded with liberals dressed in anti-Bush gear.

[chomskysright]

442. ITS GONNA KILL ME BUT I'LL GO TO CHURCH THERE SUNDAY....WITH

my BUCK BUSH IN THE 21ST CENTURY T-SHIRT

[brainshrub]

455. Do you want to go with me?

We've met several times before, why don't we go together? IM me if you are interested.

[CBHagman]

478. Godspeed to both of you.

Methinks that pastor has abandoned the Scriptures entirely and signed on to the Gospel According to Mammon.

[KansDem]

497. I'd go too, but can't. I live in the enlightened state of...

KANSAS!
(We have our own problems...:D)

Good luck to all DUer's who attend. If it's a "debate" they want, let them have it!

[The Doctor.]

502. Sue to have their 501(c) 3 status revoked.

This is a clear-cut case of political activism in church.

We have to do something about these 'Activist Churches'.

[dissent1977]

404. Here is their phone number

828-456-6841

Thought some of you might like to give them a call.

[ronnykmarshall]

439. Oh my ...

busy signal!

[lala_rawraw]

513. what is the full name of the pastor?

[Bluebear]

2. The Holy War has begun. And we're the enemy.

[MissB]

Having just watched Hotel Rwanda last weekend

Yeah. I'm a wee bit freaked. Setting one's countryman against one another is apparently not that hard.

Hate radio is already here.

[AuntiBush]

569. No Bluebear: They have become their OWN WORSE ENEMIES.

No Bluebear. We're not the enemies... they are and to themselves even moreso.

We're on the correct side, don't worry about that.

I gotta do the headbang thing again before I scream.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[JDPriestly]

3. Read your history.

Look up Hugenots and what happened to the French economy when it expelled them. It wasn't good. Bigotry is its own punishment.

[LynneSin]

398. Hell, look at the history of Catholics vs. Protestants in England

:scared:

[NorthernSpy]

4. does the IRS know about this?

Doesn't this cross the line that otherwise protects a church from tax liability?

[JerseygirlCT]

98. I would surely think so. nt

[last_texas_dem]

285. I hope so

No way these hypocritical shits deserve tax-exempt status for nakedly political stunts like that.

[ktowntennesseedem]

335. Absolutely.

That is so far over the line, it sounds like it couldn't possibly be true. :wow:

Welcome to the Theocratic States of America. Please leave your freedoms at the door.

[ClintonTyree]

432. Cross it?

Completely erased it is more apt. This is it, this is the final straw. These religious bigots have finally shown themselves for what they are, a political movement.
I want the GOP leadership to condemn this immediately. All of them. bush, Cheney, Rove, Frist, DeLay, Santorum, the entire lot. If they refuse to do this, they are condoning this action and should be removed from office immediately.
There is STILL a line between church and state, as of now. If they want to remove it, declare so and let's see what the American people think of it.
They have just marginalized themselves to a point where they'll NEVER be taken seriously again. Good. Fucking assholes! It serves them right for lying down with this scum in the first place. :grr:

[oneold1-4u]

580. Should never have had tax exempt! Take property!

These churches(thousands) are political in sooooo many ways. They preach and even put up political signs on the church properties that are all exempt from ALL TAXATION including money or income derived from or upon them! Some of these church properties have changed hands many times but never paid a cent of taxes even on real property profits! There should be complete loss of all properties for all back taxes! It happens all the time to individuals!
If they do nothing, (and we know they won't), we might as well join them. They would come down on all with an immediate tax loss of billions. Now I just have to think up a name for "my" church!

[chomskysright]

444. i'M GONNA MAKE SURE THEY DO AS I WORK IN WAYNESVILLE, NC

[KamaAina]

5. Would they have expelled William Jennings Bryan?

One of our best Dem presidential candidates ever was also a confirmed fundamentalist; he later took Tennessee's side in the Scopes "monkey trial".

Hypocrites. :banghead:

[mhr]

6. Before We Are Through - It Will Be Us Against Them

Better start sharpening those crosses for spear tips!

[tavalon]

339. Before we are through?

It already is us against them. The Chimperor "I'm a uniter, not a divider" Bushnit decreed it.

Who's your Antichrist now, huh, huh? Good boy!

[DesEtoiles]

7. Who would Jesus excommunicate?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

124. Jimmy Swaggart

Oral Roberts
Jim Jones
Jim Baker
Fred Phelps
Bob Jones
Jerry Falwell
etc
etc
etc

Hope that answers your question :)

[Ouabache]

224. Exclusive Christianity never ends up being nice

nt

Christ was all about Inclusiveness. So this congregation is not really Christian anyway. Hope all those republicans left in the congregation realize they now have to give MORE $$ to keep the congregation going.

[KansDem]

498. Excellent term, sort of like "Country Club Christianity..."

Where the barbed wire separates the chosen from all others...

[Catherine Vincent]

8. What the hell?

[KamaAina]

9. Oh, I just remembered, WLOS-TV is a Sinclair affiliate

what a surprise. :sarcasm:

I suppose these tinpot theocrats will get some sort of plaque from the station or something. :puke:

[Yellow_Dog]

291. WLOS & Mark Hyman

Imagine watching this story on the same station that carries Mark Hyman's Bush propaganda segment on every news cast.

[Pirate Smile]

486. Does Media Matters monitor them? Hyman is so despicable. My

CBS is a Sinclair station and if I turn over too quickly after The Daily Show to see Letterman, I see that asshole. I just can't believe the lies and RW slander propaganda he spews every night during the local news.

[Pirate Smile]

10. I just pulled up their website to look for a link - they're a Sinclair

station.

:eyes:

edit to add - with a Desperate Housewives ad at the top of their Home page.

[bowens43]

12. This is the future of America.

A theocracy every bit as dangerous, repulsive and oppressive as the Taliban. Make no mistake, the fundamentalists want to control everything that you do, think and say. They will NOT allow deviation from what they consider to to be the norm. These ignorant , freedom hating, mindless marching morons are far more dangerous then Islamic fundamentalists.

[Parche]

13. church

have them make their own church, so they can ex communicate them!!!
revenge is fun!!


Church..........a waste of a good Sunday

[Pirate Smile]

30. It seems to fit right in with Cheney's calling Dems "the other faith".

Cheney's New Meme?
by Coldblue Steele
Wed May 4th, 2005 at 12:52:25 PDT

Darth was down in Georgia the other day for a Republican-only town hall on, you guessed it, "Strengthening Social Security". Most of what he said is nothing more than the misleading drivel we've heard time and again, but there was one interesting statement

"If we don't do anything at all, if we just stay where a lot of people have said we ought to stay -- there are a number of members of Congress OF THE OTHER FAITH who have said that we don't need to do anything -- well, if you don't do anything, the net result will be, for somebody today, say, in their 30s, by the time they get to retirement age, their benefit levels are going to be cut some 26 percent or 27 percent. Automatic, that's what will happen with today's existing law."

The other faith?

But wait. It gets picked up and repeated.

Unlike Bush, Cheney will actually take questions from the audience, which isn't really all that bold since it's packed with wingnuts. So here are two questions submitted

Q Mr. Vice President, thank you for coming to Georgia, and thank you and the President for your leadership in the war on terror. Millions of Americans appreciate that.
My question is, I watched the press conference the other night with the President, and it seems like when the two of you come up with serious ideas that those from THE OTHER FAITH, in the other party, all they do is demonize and, in many cases, just lie and try to divide the older generation, our grandparents from us, those in our 30s.

That's one. Here's another

Q Good morning, Vice President Cheney. I'd like to ask a question. This morning you've really delineated very well a lot of points in the program and what you and the President want to do. Could you delineate for us, because I think we have a little bit of an easy audience this morning on convincing us of this program -- could you delineate out a few other points from the other side, or THE OTHER FAITH, differences maybe in what you're saying this morning, and maybe what they're saying or not saying?

Are we seeing a pattern developing here?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/4/155225/5465

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1763570

[progressivebydesign]

157. Hey Pirate.. would consider posting your reply here as its own thread?

I think the whole "OTHER faith" thing needs to be highlighted BIG time on DU right now. They're up to something.. and it looks planned. If I tie lots of threads like these from the past week together, it's looking like they're trying to declare a religious war on those that disagree with them. God help us!

[Pirate Smile]

197. I already posted it as its own thread - click on the DU link above

Here it is again

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1763570

I posted it Wednesday night but I know it is easy to miss things if you aren't on DU at the "right" time.

[beam me up scottie]

188. Yes, I agree with PBD-this deserves it's own thread.

I almost didn't look at this one because it's so lengthy, I would have missed it and THIS is important.
Those questioners were plants-I'm sure of it. We just witnessed the birth of a reichwing talking point.

This needs to get out there.
Thanks for posting it.

[ornotna]

295. I'm not sure I understand this post

Could you delineate. Jeez, somebody learned a new word. :eyes: :evilgrin:

[babywatson]

607. Southern Baptist are definitely weird.

But I wish people didn't categorize ALL southerners as being die-hard Bushies. I live in a red state, grew up in a red state, and believe me, it's hard to understand how people can come from the same background and NOT get that George Bush is a phony baloney. They just seem to shut off if you even try to discuss it, which is why I try to keep my opinions to myself around here. I did have to put up my Kerry sign before the election, though. I couldn't stand seeing all the Bush signs everywhere.

[DesEtoiles]

14. call them 828 456 6841

[Catherine Vincent]

21. I searched for their number too. LOL!

[burn the bush]

31. we should call them and ask them to release their tax files as we

want to see how much "faith based initiative" money this church is getting. Basically we want to know what it takes to buy a church.

[KaliTracy]

36. EXACTLY! IRS should be alerted, too! --- As soon as there is confirmed

report!

edited: confirmation

[burn the bush]

71. oops, I took your edit confirmation as being that the report was now

confirmed, so I already called. Now I see you were just finishing your title sentence.

[KaliTracy]

127. sorry.... but it looks like it might have been confirmed below? I just got

back to this thread.... (I'll be more careful next time!) :blush:

[Terran]

261. That's an excellent idea!

HUD prohibits discrimination in the provision of services by any of its grantees; so if they have a HUD grant (although somehow I doubt this particular congregation is helping out any homeless people), they could be in big trouble.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

49. I did! Got an answering machine and had fun!

Call if you have the dime!

[burn the bush]

54. what did u say?

I'm going to call. What should I say? Should I ask about their tax exempt status for a political institution?

on edit: I called them and asked what they intended to do now about their tax exempt status now that they have publically declared that they are a political organization. I left my number for them to call me back.

on edit: I called back and told them that it was me again and that I was suppose to ask them, but forgot if they would mind if we did a foia request on their income taxes to see how money they are getting from the govt via faith base initiatives for a republican only facility. Please call me as soon as you can so I can get this report out.

thank you so much.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

70. I did a Little old man voice and wished them that God would have mercy on

their souls for doing what they did... I rambled on and ended by telling themselves to go fuck themselves.

Guess I should have recorded it.

:evilgrin:

[TheDebbieDee]

309. I listened to their recorded message that ended......

with the phrase that they would, "get ahold of you as soon as possible". I left a message that said, "You won't get ahold of me cause I'm going heaven. God is a Democratic and you're all going to hell!

Silly, I know, but I thought that was the kind of immature message that a religious zealot would leave!

[ElaineinIN]

492. You might not need to do a foia request

By law, tax exempt organizations are required to hand out their Forms 990 (annual financial information return in lieu of income tax return0 and 1023 (application for exempt status) to anyone who asks--although you may have to pay for copies. However, churches are exempt from having to fie the 990 and 1023--so do voluntarily to get the benefit of having it on file, but many don't. . You might want to check your state, however, as many states have similar filing requirements and might not have a church exemption.

[havocmom]

143. Nevermind, thought it was for the station

:shrug:

[caligirl]

15. Remember it wasn't all that long ago that they were keeping

whites and blacks in separate everythings, schools, restaurants, bathrooms, etc. This isn't a stretch for them.

[Pithy Cherub]

16. The church of Pharisees is now officially in session!

Then revoke any tax provisions that "church" steals! For the Love of God, who are they to sit in judgment of choices in a choice of government!

[Coexist]

17. just don't drink the kool-aid at the meet-and-greet after

wow - this is the second Jim Jones reference I have made tonight. Things must be getting ugly out there!

[Catherine Vincent]

18. What is the pastor's name? I think I'll give him a call.

http://waynesvillelive.com/church.html

[Spiffarino]

103. I think I heard them say "Chan Chandler"

That's what it sounded like.

They played an excerpt from a recent sermon. The guy is a nut. He sounds like a David Koresh wannabe to me.

[understandinglife]

19. Them Fristians sure do know their bible, don't they...... (nt)

www.missionnotaccomplished.us -- STOP THE ATROCITIES; INDICT AND PROSECUTE BU$H AND ALL THE OTHER WAR CRIMINALS

[SouthernDem2004]

22. Er, you sure?

[etherealtruth]

23. The RW-fundies are not interested in anything but their own ...

frenzied perversions of Christianity and sanity...

[me b zola]

193. "frenzied perversions of Christianity and sanity"

That about sums it up.


I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!

[Elidor]

234. "frenzied perversions of Christianity and sanity..."

Right on.

[libnnc]

24. I'm hoping the Asheville Citizen Times will pick this up

It's not on their website yet. Maybe tomorrow. This church is just up the road from my Aunt and Uncle's home. This is so bizarre. It's not like a snake-handling/stricnyne drinking church. It's pretty mainline Southern Baptist from what I remember as a kid. I guess mainline Southern Baptists have changed.

Lets shame the hell out of these fools. I live in Winston-Salem now but dammit, I want my hometown back.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

63. Keyword SOUTHERN

The Southern Baptists are insane. I grew up Southern Baptist. This shit is typical. Most of them are ignorant. Not all...but a lot of them are.
Duckie

[tavalon]

344. Hi Duckie

from another person raised in the Southern Baptist Cult, I wholeheartedly agree. They compete to be the stupidest and the nuttiest. They succeed pretty well on both.

[ktowntennesseedem]

401. Another recovering Southern Baptist here!

They are just plain nuts at best, and downright dangerous at worst. I'm still a Baptist, because I am proud of the Baptist heritage of church/state separation, religious freedom and tolerance, believer's priesthood, and other hallmarks that our Baptist ancestors help to champion. The same principles that today's Southern Baptists are thumbing their nose at. They disgust me for stealing and redifining the term; they have no right calling themselves Baptist!

:banghead:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

402. I'm now Catholic...

And I like the progressive, feed the poor attitude of this church. I actually heard a baptist minister say something awful about homeless people once, something about how they put themselves there and are probably being punished for something. Made me wanna barf.
Duckie

[Patiod]

421. Isn't that what Jesus said about the poor

that it's their own fault and they're being punished?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

484. Not in my bible.

:shrug: I don't know which one you've been reading.
Duckie

[Patiod]

514. I'd rather give DUers the benefit of the doubt rather then

use that drippy sarcasm thing. I'm insulted when I see that - as if the poster is saying "just in case you don't get that I'm being sarcastic".

Here's something I've discovered on DU - when a DUer says something like "Jesus didn't like the poor either", they are usually being sarcastic.

[Democracy White]

542. It is difficult

for some people who read online to catch the tone of what a poster is saying (like me), so that is why there are the emoticons. The Internet is hard to convey the tone and emotion of one as it is written language and not an actual conversation. Just trying to point this out and I am sorry if you are insulted.

Dee

[YellowRubberDuckie]

593. As soon as I put it, I changed it. Sorry.

[ktowntennesseedem]

510. Love your sig line!

I agree; if anyone has a good sense of humor, it is God. And if anyone wants to disagree with that, just have them study the platypus for a while.

[Maat]

427. Yes, apparently, the hard right conservative Baptists,

like Pressler and Paige, began an intense effort to take over the SBC, veering toward the hard right. It began around 1979.

I have an article somewhere (I research the Religious Wrong) that quotes these far right conservative Baptist Christians bragging about how they took over and eliminated moderates in leadership positions.

[ktowntennesseedem]

508. 1979, Paige Patterson & Paul Pressler

met at the Cafe du Monde restaurant in New Orleans and first plotted to takeover the Southern Baptist Convention and reshape it to their liking. By using "inerrancy" as a wedge issue, they would frighten the typical trusting convention goers to vote their hand selected candidate as president each year, so that he, in turn, could nominate acceptable people to trustee boards of the various agencies. Took about 10 years to purge the boards of all who didn't meet their approval, then a few more years to push out any others who objected.
(I was a student at the seminary in Louisville in the late '80s when they gained complete control of that trustee board and started having non-conservative professors dismissed under false accusations of heresy.)

Lots of good resources about that, and it is worth studying because there are some intriguing parallels in that takeover and the shift in the national political landscape over the same period.

[Maat]

529. Thanks.

More to add to my info. I did have some of the info.

I still cannot get into the heads of someone who would want to swing things this way.

Despite having grown up in Orange County, Calif. with John-Birchers and relgiious wrongies, I still cannot understand them. Why not just live isolated, repressed lives and leave the rest of us out of it? But fundies just can't do it.

[susanr516]

549. Amen to that

I am also recovering Southern Baptist, left in January 2001. The Christian Reconstructionist wing now in control of the SBC has made a mockery of the old Baptist concepts of soul competency and the priesthood of the believer. IMO, the SBC has become some type of religious-political cult.

[ktowntennesseedem]

556. Welcome to DU, susanr516!

This is a really diverse gathering place, but I love it because there is room for so much diversity. And I've found a fair number of Baptists and former Baptists, too, and others who agree with us that the SBC has drastically changed. I share your opinion that it is a religious-political cult; in fact that may be an understatement.

[oneold1-4u]

581. Welcome Susan-and now

For all who know and understand that these people need another source for sharing a better faith, reach out and help them to find some of the truly diversified and honest places of worship!
Those who can lead in the footprints God made, are seldom far from the right path! All of life is a path to love and its own rewards.

[Maat]

423. I've got bad news ...

I've been researching the Religious Right for the last year or so, and the Southern Baptist Convention is the key to the Religious Right push. Richard Land stated that now the pREsident calls him - unlike Reagan, Bush 41, and Clinton. Apparently, he is the pResident's key 'spiritual' advisor (Land is the Ethics and Liberty and Morality Commissioner, or something like that).

Apparently, after Goldwater's defeat in 1964, Paul Weyrich, the architect of the Conservative Noise Machine (and the guy who wants to drown government in a bathtub) targeted fundamentalist (Southern Baptist) and charismatic (Assembly of God churches or Pentecostal, some Calvary) congregations and administrative church orgs.

It all ties together.

[chomskysright]

450. i'LL SEND IT TO Citizen Times: I live there & correspond w/ ltrtoeditor gu

[Alizaryn]

25. Doesn't this action void their tax exempt status?

[ComerPerro]

29. It certainly should!

[FreedomAngel82]

42. I agree

This is over the line. Who do you go to to complain about that? This is wrong on so many levels. Doesn't this go against one of the first ammendment rights?

[ComerPerro]

45. I don't know. I am thinking you could report it as tax fruad

Since they are apparently a PAC that is disguised as a chruch to take advantage of the tax-free status.

[proud2BlibKansan]

384. I was thinking

we should mail the church some IRS forms. To help them get started on their 2005 tax year declarations. :)

[ComerPerro]

456. LOL

[proud2BlibKansan]

506. I posted this article

on another board with the thread title "Baptist Church Wants to Pay Taxes"

hee hee The RWs on that board are gonna shit when they read that.

[ComerPerro]

509. Ha ha!

[proud2BlibKansan]

523. The first idiot freeper just replied

he thinks the preacher is doing a good thing, ridding his church of 'evil'. LOL! What an idiot. Maybe he is planning on making a donation to help this church with its tax bill.

[Tux]

46. One way of contating the IRS

http://www.irs.gov/help/page/0,,id=13148,00.html

[trogdor]

354. DONE

It was fun.

[chomskysright]

451. DONE: and here's the letter:

May 6, 2005

Hello:

I work in Waynesville, NC. I have many clients there.

That being an aside, I am very concerned about a local church, East Waynesville Baptist Church, who reportedly has abused their tax exempt status by advising members who were presumably not going to vote for George Bush for the 2004 General Election to please leave the congregation.

If this is true, I would like to see the IRS follow the matter up and hopefully revoke their tax exempt status.

Thank you for getting back to me on this matter.

Sincerely,

[Joebert]

588. My post to the IRS

Hello,

I am concered that a local organization, that is tax-exempt, is violating that status.

Where can I read up on exactly what makes an organization eligible for tax exempt status, and what actions can cause it to be revoked?

I'd also like to know how I would proceed with a claim if I compile proof that this is happening.

Basically, if an organization is able to get a benefit by being tax-exempt, yet don't abide by the rules to be tax-exempt, they are non-competitive.


---

Hopefully it's vague enough that they point to the resources available, and don't catch that I'm looking at a church.

[ClintonTyree]

To Report Federal Tax Fraud....

which this obviously is....

To Report Suspected Tax Fraud , Call 1-800-829-0433. If you have information about an individual or company you suspect is not complying with the tax law, report this activity.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

26. This is so sad.

One nation Divided, Thanks to W, with liberty and justice for ONLY THOSE ON THE LIST I HOLD IN MY HAND

:grr:

[Malva Zebrina]

27. Getting a little out of control, I would say

Did they get faith based welfare money from the guvernment, I wonder and I wonder if they are up for more.

[kliljedahl]

28. The church has no web site

This is what I googled:

East Waynesville Baptist Church
175 Woodland Dr
Waynesville, NC 28786

Denomination: Baptist

Phone: [phone] Fax: n/a

Church Web Site: n/a

Average Attendance: n/a

Driving Directions : n/a

Major Cross Streets: n/a

Email Contacts:

Local Ministries:

Really open, aren't they?


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[ClintonTyree]

443. I like your Keith's Barbeque Central site....

have you ever entered any competitions? I know they're all over the south and I attended my share when I used to live down there. I've got you bookmarked! :hi:

[kliljedahl]

491. Never competed, just judged

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[ClintonTyree]

522. It has no web site, but I now own the domain name...

thanks for the tip. www.eastwaynesvillebaptistchurch.com is now all mine. I think I'll just sit on it a while, maybe put it up on Ebay if this story takes off, as it should.

BTW, LOVE my barbeque! I' much rather be a judge than compete as well. No work, and you get to taste the fruits of everyone else's labor. Sweeeeeeeet! ;)

[kliljedahl]

574. Could have some fun with that

Congrats on the new domain name. If I'd thought of it I'd have set up something similar to Betty Bowers or Landover Baptist. Probably make it a DU project to keep the creativity going.



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Botany]

32. Judge not, least ye be judged too.

Go for it E.W. Bad Ass Church.
FRacture the republican party.

[ComerPerro]

33. And they have the audacity to say that Dems are out of touch with faith

Well no fucking wonder. They are all excommunicated!

They didn't reject the church, the church rejected them!

Of course, if it were me, I would have told that pastor to go to hell long ago.

[proud2BlibKansan]

129. dupe

[proud2BlibKansan]

139. Hey Comer

We have a preacher as crazy as this right here in our backyard

http://www.ffc.org/

[ComerPerro]

288. Why does that site make me think of Landover Baptist?

[proud2BlibKansan]

360. That guy is so baaaad

The Pitch gives him lots of good 'bad press'. He made quite a name for himself when he endorsed Kris Kobach - and worked on his campaign!!

[blondeatlast]

317. "The church rejected them." Exactly. Let's hope He really does have

infinite patience--otherwise E. Waynesville Baptist is in it BIG.

[blondeatlast]

34. Take this, if true, and study it with this little gem from Dickie the C--

Cheney's New Meme? "the other faith" when describing Democrats!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1763570

There are NO political accidents, America. None.

[Maat]

430. Yep, this religious reich researcher picked that up.

Thanks. I took notes about 'the other faith' stuff.

Thanks again for the post and the info.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. This is disgusting

I hate these people! Someone called in Malloy's show earlier this week and told how in Ohio the republicans gave churches (mostly black) a lot of money in turn for votes. Could this be happening here or what?

[KaliTracy]

38. maybe that's what Rove meant when he said there was an 'invisible

grassroots movement' when he was here in Ohio this week....

[mtnester]

601. It is not invisible at all in Ohio- It is called the Restoration Project

and we need to be all over this..do some googling, or you can looky below:

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/DominionistsTryToControlOhio.html

http://www.worldprayer.us/bible/christian/104089-Christian-Conservatives-Move-To-Take-Over-Ohio.html


This NC incident will become part of it, trust me, if it is not allready...the Restoration Project is the rally cry for the fundie nation, and it all originated right here in my county in Ohio...Fairfield...I know every person involved...Rod Parsley, Russell Johnson, Sheriff Phalen....scary people who rabidly believe Democrats are sinners of the worst sort and should be purged from society (if they could get away with it clean)

There are good people in the Fairfield Christian Church who are quietly leaving (in droves) over their own fears. But, they are also replacing them rapidly with fervered believers.

[driver8]

37. You will goose step like us or you won't goose step at all!!

When do we get the big "D's" to sew onto our clothes??

This is fucking unbelievable. If I was in that church, I think I might have been tempted to go up to the altar to confess my sins, then taking a piss all over it.

I am sick of the "oh so righteous" condemning the rest of us. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on...

[MadisonProgressive]

457. It won't be a D - most D's aren't registered as D's

It will be NR - Not Republican that will be tatooed on our foreheads.

[Zodiak]

39. wow...just wow

I come from an area in North Texas that is rife with fundies. You are right, the Southern Baptist church was formed during the time of segregation to keep blacks from attending church with whites, so expelling Democrats is not a stretch for them. These are the heart and soul of what is Bush, I promise you. Wonder what the blue dog types who attended that church felt as their brothers in ideology just expelled them?

I'm sure the liberals of the church were gone long before this horrendous display of fascism. Well, most of 'em.

The comments on this thread that this is the beginning of a holy war are probably not far off of the mark. The more Bush goes down in the polls, the freakier these people are going to get. They control the government, now, and there is nothing that will stop them from advancing their agenda on the people...whether you like it or not. The more we resist BushCo, the more fascist they get, until the oppression is so great, the people wake up.

Finally.

[mitchum]

252. Actually, the Southern Baptists were formed in the antebellum period...

as a break away sect when the Baptist church in America joined the abolitionist movement. These hateful bigots have a very looooooooong history of intolerance.

[entanglement]

40. Somehow, I'm not as disturbed as I should be.

Outrage fatigue, perhaps?

[Raksha]

67. I'm not outraged at all--I'm delighted!

They have finally shot themselves in the foot...and let's see them trying to blame THIS one on Bill Clinton! That should be fun to watch...

[blondeatlast]

41. Link to the TV station--no mention yet.

Let's not get too alarmist here.

This kindf of thing has happened on DU before.

Just a heads up, y'all.

Edit: link--I had a blonde moment:

http://www.wlos.com/

[FreedomAngel82]

48. Is there

a direct link to this particular story?

[blondeatlast]

51. Nowhere, not a one.

Googled the story every which way I could think of, too.

[libnnc]

58. I'm thinking if it was a "breaking news" thing that it will be on the

late evening edition. Mom sent me the email at 6:25 est.

[Norquist Nemesis]

385. It's on their site now. Here it is

http://www.wlos.com/

Religion and Politics Clash
Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.


East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.


(posted at 7:30am, 5/6/05)

[Spiffarino]

108. This is the real thing

I saw the news report a little after 6:00. They interviewed a bunch of the excommunicated people who, on average, had attended that church for over 30 years.

It's not a joke. That preacher is dead serious, and I can verify that a witness said that the congregants stood and applauded as the Democratic church members left the building.

The theocracy has begun in earnest, folks.

[Shell Beau]

43. That is really unbelievable!

Denying someone who wants to be at that church because of their political views is complete and utter B.S. This is really a blessing in disguise because who would want to hear a sermon from such a hypocrite? If that is what he believes Jesus would want him to do, then he isn't worth the time of day. This is what gives religion and Christians a bad name. People disguising themselves as Christians and spewing nothing but hate. These people are better off getting out of there while the getting is good. What a friggin' jerk-off.:mad: :cry: :banghead: :evilfrown:

[indepat]

44. It's not like a cult: it is a cult

[cssmall]

47. March of the Pigs

Onward Christian soliders, marching off to victory. Perhaps it should read: March fuckers, walk! Kill them liberals and get rid of 'em all." Tell this to one of those christians: Jesus Christ was a liberal thinker and philosopher. The meek shall inherit the earth? I mean come on. But, then again it's easy to forget... I guess

[HeeBGBz]

50. That is soooo fkn creepy.

These people are nuts.

[KaliTracy]

52. with all of the posibilities of at least ONE person in this Administration

getting in trouble for Lying (WMD, and "government" ads that are more like propoganda for starters), and for cheating (election, for starters), not to mention other atrocities in the last 4 and 1/2 years, I hope that these righteous people profession alliance for * and Jesus (as if they were the same thing) get a Big Reality Check...


And once it is confirmed -- be sure to BLAST it to your local and national news sources and ask simple questions -- such as

"Whatever happenen to Separation Between Church and State?"

"Since when is Intolerance a part of Faith?"

"Are Americans in Our Own Religious War?"

"I thought the 1st Amendment allowed us Freedom to Religion and to Free Speech?"

.....or variations of such!

[Blue-Jay]

53. This should get MAJOR media coverage!

awww....who am I kidding?

Fuckheads like this continue to fly under the media radar. It's almost as if the media isn't quite as "liberal" as we've been led to believe.

[KaliTracy]

289. BLAST this information TO the media! Don't forget NPR, too! They may

still ignore it -- but not because they weren't informed!

[Tux]

306. Well

I did get some info from DailyKos (now going there for fun) plus the phone number of the church and local TV station then I submited a story idea to Democracy Now!

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :popcorn: :woohoo: :bounce:

Edit: And I submited the story to Slashdot. We have allies in the geek community.

[SangamonTaylor]

55. there goes that tax exempt status n/t

[libnnc]

56. Calling All Asheville Area DUers!!

Watch WLOS news tonight to see if they say anything more about this. Their website is notoriously crappy and this might not get posted until tomorrow. I'm still looking for confirmation myself.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

81. my girlfriend confirms the story

she was waching WLOS between 5 and 6 and heard this story about the church kicking democrats out, she heard it in passing and has no real details.

i will try to watch the 11pm news.

on edit: i am in asheville :silly:

[blondeatlast]

92. Thanks--please keep us informed. Libnnc called the station

and they said they will cover it on the late edition.

This can't be real--why would they risk tax-exempt status?

[ClintonTyree]

452. Faith based charities...

they're probably getting more from the bush theocracy than they'd lose paying taxes. Besides, who's going to investigate them? The bush administration? :shrug: They're at the point now where they think they're bullet proof. They've got god's chosen one in the White House and think that no one can touch them. Guess what? THEY'RE GOING TO BE TOUCHED! :grr:

[MadisonProgressive]

460. Well, I'd hate to think that some far-left nutjob might try to

burn their church to the ground.... Well, maybe I don't hate it, but it does disturb me a little.

[Pirate Smile]

95. Thanks for the confirmation.

[Spiffarino]

110. I'll be checking in as soon as I hear anything. n/t

[chomskysright]

454. we're here baby: and ready to step up to the plate:

[DemocracyInaction]

57. Tax the Fuckers---they are no longer a religion. n/t

[lady lib]

250. Exactly!

[paineinthearse]

60. ummmmmm.....sounds more like a political orgnaization than a chruch

Maybe someone should let the IRS in on the information.

[Raksha]

61. Is there some way they can lose their tax-exempt status?

That sounds a little bit over the top to say the least.

[Chovexani]

62. The church should change its name then

First Church of Fristianity, Latter-Day Freeptards. :crazy:

The Dems that got kicked out should go look up the nearest UU congregation...I'm sure they'd be welcome.

[paineinthearse]

64. Be the first to comment on this church

http://www.usachurch.com/north_carolina/asheville/Baptist_churches_7.htm

This website invites you to add comments about this church:

East Waynesville Baptist Church : Baptist
175 Woodland Dr Waynesville, NC (North Carolina)
Phone: [phone]

Be the first to comment on this Waynesville Baptist church - http://www.usachurch.com/north_carolina/asheville/churches/church_182864.htm

[blondeatlast]

65. Please--let's just get confirmation of this first.

Sorry, I'm just skeptical.

This means they lose their tax-exempt status--I just have very serious doubts they would risk that.

Let's just PLEASE not overreact; that plays right into the opposition's hands.

[paineinthearse]

66. You're right. Wait for confirmation - nothing on WLOS yet.

http://www.wlos.com/

[chomskysright]

466. WE HAVE CONFIRMATION:

http://www.wlos.com /

Religion and Politics Clash
Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.


East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.

[libnnc]

68. Agreed. I should have confirmed this before posting

[Spiffarino]

114. Confirmed

My wife and I both saw the news report at 6:05pm on WLOS. They interviewed several elderly church members. All confirmed that the preacher has been after them to support Bush since October and that if they voted for John Kerry they supported abortion and gay marriage.

[sarcasmo]

341. This is why Chimp won the election, preacher nut jobs like this one.

Think of all the other Churches that scared the elderly into voting this way.

[impeachthescoundrel]

517. I hate to sound like a broken record

But * didn't win anything. He stole it.

[Roland99]

181. There's a comment there now

[Roland99]

274. Someone's purging the comments!

The original one is gone now!

[InfoMinister]

231. oops

oops

[MadisonProgressive]

461. Good comment by Chan Chandler

We have become quite properly intolerant and restrictive. We kicked out them dang librul demonrats and took back our church for Gawd Almighty! We have voluntarily relinquished our tax exempt status and have become an openly political orginazation. Thus we pray in the name of the almighty George W Bush, Amen

[Pirate Smile]

69. What would be the newspaper for this area?

edit to add - link to listing of North Carolina newspapers

http://www.ncpress.com/ncnewspapersonline.html

[libnnc]

72. Asheville Citizen-Times

www.citizentimes.com

and the local fish wrap www.themountaineer.com
but its a garbage non-daily and it won't have anything until either tomorrow or the weekend.

Who here on DU knows anyone DUers in Asheville?

[burn the bush]

77. isn't Asheville a big new ager town? n/t

[Chovexani]

112. It's pretty bohemian

I know tons of Pagans down there. Very artist-friendly area, too.

[ultraist]

118. Asheville is very liberal

The whole county in general is a liberal enclave but all of the surrounding areas are very RED, like scary RED. :scared:

We try not to drive through certain parts of NC at night, for real! LOL!

[Spiffarino]

117. Asheville is Freak Central

...but it's surrounded by Freep Central. The outlying areas are full of nutcases.

[ultraist]

125. Asheville is a hip little town

Most Democratic candidates won Buncombe county with big margins, high 50% ranges up to over 60%.

It was closer for the presidential race:

George W. Bush/Dick Cheney 51,686 50.01%

John F. Kerry/John Edwards 50,90349 49.25%

You're right about surrounding areas! Creepy freepyvilles.

[Spiffarino]

149. Remember that we voted on Sequoia black boxes.

Odd how Buncombe went big for Dems, but somehow we voted for the Shrub.

I don't buy it. Never have.

[ultraist]

162. I agree. That is HIGHLY suspicious!

[wildeyed]

329. An almost surreal scene last time I visited Asheville.

Beautiful Sunday afternoon and a bunch of alternative kids are enjoying a small festival in one of the local parks. Then two men drive up in a truck, whip out a bullhorn and start blasting them with old testament promises of fire and brimstone. Surreal, violent and bizarre behavior. I doubt they made many converts that day. Kind of shows you both sides of Asheville and the conflicts that exist there.

And a funny quote I read in the Charlotte Observer a few years ago in an article about Asheville. One of the locals was lamenting about how Asheville is "full of witches, homosexuals and vegetarians". Damn those vegetarians!

[nytemare]

387. I have been to Maggie Valley about 3 times

and each time I have visited Waynesville. They had many family owned art shops and such, very talented and friendly people. Last time I visited, I wore my "vets for Kerry" shirt a lot, this past August. I got a lot of good comments, there.

[DearAbby]

75. Link Please...we need to confirm the story, let's not run off like

chickens with their heads cut off. Link to the story....Sources!

[SheepyMcSheepster]

90. i can second hand confirm as well

my girlfriend caught the broadcast and confirms the story.

it should be running again at 11pm.

[G_j]

325. I heard the WLOS story too n/t

[SheepyMcSheepster]

73. wow, this hits close to home

wow, not far from where i live, this is crazy.

[libnnc]

80. Can you please watch WLOS news tonight?

[libnnc]

84. Just got off the phone with Shelia at WLOS tee-vee

She says that they will be doing a story on their 11pm newscast.

[blondeatlast]

89. Post in the Lounge for someone to watch.

You're most apt to find an Asheville or nearby type there.

[libnnc]

93. what's that supposed to mean?

Asheville "type"?

[blondeatlast]

104. Sorry--I meant someone near Asheville.

Heat of the moment, blonde, tired... anyway, I swear, no harm intended.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

91. i am going to try

we have company coming into night about the same time so it maybe tricky.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

113. i am going to attempt to record the audio

does anyone have anyone have host space for it?

[walldude]

179. I can host stuff Sheepy.. will PM you n/t

[SheepyMcSheepster]

184. cool, ok

it won't be the best audio it will have a little hum, but it should at least do the job of solidy confirming this story for now.

i suspect i should have it around 11:20 or so.

[Spiffarino]

195. I'll do a copy, too

I'll put it up on my host.

[Spiffarino]

182. I can host it, but only for a day or two.

Long enough to pass it around anyway. I'll try to get video myself tonight. I can save it as an avi or mpeg and maybe compress it so it doesn't kill my website.

[starmaker]

138. my hometown

will watch tv tonight can't wait for Waynesville mountaineer paper to come out tomorrow. Don"t judge all of us by this story please

I'm local so any requests?

[libnnc]

147. my hometown too

Tuscola class of '89 here

I think Chan Chandler graduated with me

[starmaker]

203. class of 74 honary member

been here now since 80
hcc 82 wood work prod craft

[racaulk]

372. I used to live there

I am a WCU graduate and I lived in Waynesville for a few years while I was a student there.

[paineinthearse]

74. Guess who owns WLOS TV?

[blondeatlast]

79. Holy schist. Why am I not surprised?

See my latest post--I suspect we are being set-up BIG TIME.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

86. yep, it's a sinclair station

don't take this out on the employees of the station though, they realise sinclair sucks too.

[Yellow_Dog]

294. No they don't

They ain't smart enough, WLOS sucks as a news station. 90% of what they air as news, ain't news, or if it is it was captured off of the network feeds or elsewhere. Every news cast is full of non-news items from anywhere but here.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

386. i know someone who used to work there

the station management was often at odds with sinclairs royal decrees.
they are not lock step with the home office, but they know what they have to do to keep their job.

pissing on the staff because of how the owners make them run the station is in poor taste imo.

[paineinthearse]

101. WLOS-TV contact information

http://www.wlos.com/

First Broadcast: September 18, 1954
Owner: Sinclair Broadcast Group
Network Affiliation: ABC
Transmitter: Mount Pisgah
Tower Height: 6,089 Above sea level
Studios: 110 Technology Drive
Asheville, NC 28803

Phone Numbers: 828-684-1340
800-288-8813
News Hotline: [phone]
News Email: [email protected]
Fax Numbers: Administration: 828-651-4612
Business: 828-651-4601
Engineering: 828-651-4516
News: 828-651-4618
Programming: 828-651-4597
Promotions: 828-651-4601
Sales/Traffic: 828-651-4619
HR Director: 828-681-5223

South Carolina Offices: 100 Verdae Blvd.
Suite 410
Greenville, SC 29607
Fax: [phone]

Rutherford Co. News Bureau Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Haywood Co. News Bureau Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

General Manager: Jack Connors
News Director: Tom Loebig

[blondeatlast]

76. If true, look to this to take a fast track to SCOTUS. This is BIG.

The devious minds in the Heritage Foundation are capable of engineering ANYTHING.

This is PERFECT--why shouldn't churches, like private clubs, be free to choose who is in their membership? That's the idea behind it, I'm willing to bet.

And/or expect a challenge relating to churches tax-exempt status--or even (God, I'm paranoid lately) a SCOTUS challenge to allow PRIVATE CLUBS to get tax-exempt status?

Don't think for a moment, if true, that the church did this entirely of their own volition.

In other words, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[Chovexani]

116. That's a good point.

Coming soon to a SCOTUS near you: no GLBT folk allowed in Walmart church. So sayeth the Lawd, Bill Frist.

I'm paranoid too. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. :tinfoilhat:

[lostnfound]

307. What you say makes sense.

Is a lawsuit likely to happen over this? Is this their plan?:
1) Instigate the liberals to sue the church or to push for abolishing its tax-exempt status.

2) When church loses, point to persecution of Christians -- not free to associate as they choose.

3) Push it to SCOTUS which either
A) rules in favor of church giving immediate blank check to merger of partisan politics with churches (and a tax-exempt cover for new partisan groups to form under guise of being churches),
OR
B) rules against, giving additional momentum to the Fristian Justice Sunday jihad.

Am I off on the wrong track here?

[blondeatlast]

324. No, not off track. With the smooth machinations of the Heritage Foundation

their corporate media shills (look at the membership of HF, far more journalists than there ought to be), and a compliant congres...

We're fucked (mind that I almost never say that word).

Combined with Dick Cheney's refferring to Democrats in the Congress and Senate as "the other faith," this yellow dog Christian is very creeped out.

[libnnc]

78. Damn it I can't stand this I'm calling WLOS

1-800-288-8813

to see what I can find out. If they will be doing a story tonight.

I have to be off line to call.

I'll be back.

[mmonk]

82. If true,

it may be an event that just might open some eyes and raise some eyebrows of many who don't pay attention to things.

[blondeatlast]

83. Or a HUGE set-up. See my post 76, above. nt

[libnnc]

88. I know, I know...I just got off the phone with the station

They first broadcast this story on their 6pm newscast and woman on the phone said they will do another story at 11pm.

Call them at 1-800-288-8813 wait for the prompt to report a news story.

[mmonk]

94. I contacted by email some reporters

At WRAL. With the scoop competition between stations as big as it is in Raleigh, if there is any truth to the story, they'll be on it.

[blondeatlast]

97. Damn, we evilDUers are scheming little nice people, aren't we?!

:evilgrin: :rofl:

I admire the way you think!

[mmonk]

105. the devil made me do it?

;-)

[spanone]

85. Time for Taxes East Waynesville Baptist Church. Ante up.

[Blue-Jay]

87. I sent them a very respectful email.

If I get a reply, I'll post it.

[Solly Mack]

96. Unreal. America is a very sick country.

This is just one more symptom of a country that's extremely sick.

[Liberal In Texas]

99. How very Christian of them.

I'm sure He is pleased.
<satire off>

[libnnc]

100. Why didn't I think of this?

My mom has a reporter friend at WLOS (she's kinda in politics in that area...on our side) lemme see if I can get her to call him to confirm this cold.

[wishlist]

102. The station did run this story on evening news and will rerun at 11 pm

I also called the station to confirm and was told they did run a story earlier today about no Democrats allowed at this church anymore. I was told that they are going to run a shorter version of the story on the 11 pm news.

This station used to post word for word exact transcripts on their website of all of their broadcasts shortly after airing, but they stopped doing that last year.

[blondeatlast]

107. This bears VERY close observation.

This is too STUPID and big to have been made entirely on the church's part.

Bye, bye, tax-exempt status--yet let's just see how fast it goes to SCOTUS.

:scared:

Something is DEFINITELY up.

[havocmom]

131. Agree we need some major confirmation and it would be really odd

for a pastor to risk the tax status. But do not rule out that some of these guys go picking fights so they can scream about how they are persecuted. They love to be persecuted. Do they think it makes them Christ-like? Dunno, but some people just throw reason out the window.
Seems like that is happening more and more of late.

What I wanna know is would this, if true, affect only that one church's tax exempt status or would the entire Souther Baptist Church affiliation be zapped? Taxing the whole parent church would really set off a fight, and make a dent in the deficit. It would be sorta Rovian to set up a situation like that.

Oh, how I would love to see an army of auditors poring over the books of a huge PAC acting as a church.

[Maat]

449. Well, you are correct that this is a campaign of theirs.

What they are trying to do is pass something called the "Religious Freedom Restoration Act." It is a bill that permits SOME 501(c)(3)'s to engage in politicking from the org, but not others. This bill was specifically designed to permit PREACHERS/PASTORS/MINISTERS to engage in politicking from the PULPIT. Other 501-c-3 charitable/educational institutions will NOT be able to electioneer.

Just THEIR fundamentalist fans.

[ElaineinIN]

494. As a tax lawyer

I'm always surprised how many of them don't know or don't care....

[tapper]

244. Would there really be a court case?

I find it hard to see one, at least in terms of the action taken today, throwing people out,anyway. Freedom of association (and disassociation) is a key part of religious freedom - every church has the right to determine it's membership.

If there's a case for revoking their tax status, I would think, it would be on what the pastor and other leaders were saying and what the church was doing before the election ...

I feel sad for the folks kicked out -- it wouldn't surprise me if the average length of membership for that group is longer than for the folks that stayed. That's what happened when the church I grew up in split -- the folks who left (voluntarily), were many of the older members. It was those who hadn't been there as long, and *especially those who came after the preacher* who were more apt to stay.

... I wonder how many of those kicked out voted to call that pastor ... (I think Southern Baptist churches find their own pastors, like the American Baptists do.)

[blondeatlast]

326. Excommunication based strictly on political party identification...

It's a well-orchestrated set-up on the fast track to SCOTUS.

Mark my words...

[blondeatlast]

352. Read up on the Heritage Foundation or David Brock's "The Republican

Noise Machine." These are dastardly little effers.

Even if the pastor acted of his own volition, the HF will get its smarmy little hands in it soon.

[tabasco]

106. Maybe they didn't have enough rattlesnakes for everybody.

:shrug:

[KittyWampus]

109. No Shit? This Is Absolutely Illegal. This Is Not A Gray Area.

If this is true, then it helps us make our case.

[undeterred]

111. "excommunicated" sounds awfully Catholic for a bunch of Baptists

Well, its a compliment to be excluded from a cult, isn't it?

[ultraist]

115. Baptists don't "excommunicate" they "cast out."

As in, "Cast him out, in the name of Jesus!" (Referring to the "devil").

I don't think Baptist's use the term, "excommunicate" but I may be mistaken.

[undeterred]

128. Kind of like "casting out" demons

Personally, I always thought the "shunning" done by the Amish was pretty effective too...

[DemBeans]

119. well, well...don't they just own God's Little Acre

Frist is going to feel the heat for every extremist act like this - no doubt he's empowered them associating himself with the "Democrats are against people of faith" bullshit. He was warned, BEGGED not to involve himself in the Sunday Nutfest - but his ambitions are more important than maintaining even a thin veneer of civility in this country.

If I were a Democratic leader, I'd paste Frist right on the face of this and spread it far and wide.

[Tsiyu]

165. You know what's really scary?

A Repuke in these parts is representing a housing development named "Godsland." I kid you not. It was in the Cumberland View. I didn't know whether to laugh or laugh.

I would love to find a link but dialup prevents my search...But I am absolutely serious.

Jesus has left the building...and they were clapping as they drove him out.

[fishwax]

431. sadly, that doesn't surprise me either

there's definitely something wrong with these folks.

<<Jesus has left the building...and they were clapping as they drove him out.>>

great line :D

[DemonFighterLives]

578. It's good to know that they want to be away from "us"

just as much as we want to be away from them. They can worship the bomb all they want.

[chomskysright]

594. that's right: FRISTIANS ARE NOT CHRISTIAN

FLATTEN FRIST: RECENT VOTING:

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/3/18/11719/9579

drop Veteran's health care
Republicans Allen, Burns, DeWine, Ensign, *******Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against $2.8 billion for veterans health care and $2.8 billion for deficit reduction. That’s a commercial.

voted against funding Medicaid
Republicans Allen, Burns, Ensign, ********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Talent and Thomas Voted against restoring $14 billion to Medicaid and establishing a bipartisan Medicaid commission. That’s a commercial.

voted against Homeland security
Republicans Ensign, ***********Frist, Hatch, Kyl, Lott, Santorum and Thomas voted against $855 million for Homeland Security grants for first responder programs, port security grants and border patrol agents. That’s a commercial.

voted against restoring Community Development Block Grant Programs
Republicans Allen, Burns, Ensign, *********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas (funny how the same names keep coming up) voted against restoring $1.9 billion in cuts to the Community Development Block Grant Program. That’s a commercial.

voted against Vocationa Education Act (which helps people get jobs who are disabled or have been unemployed)
Republicans Allen, Burns, DeWine, Ensign, **********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against $7.46 billion for the Perkins Vocational and Technical Education Act and deficit reduction. Commercial.

voted against education and deficit reduction
Republicans Allen, Burns, Ensign, **********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against $4.75 billion for education and $4.75 billion for deficit reduction. Commercial.

voted against increasing Pell Grant (allowing people to move through college)
Republicans Allen, Burns, Ensign, ***********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Talent and Thomas voted against restoring $5.4 billion to education program cuts and increasing the maximum Pell Grant award to $4,500. Commercial.

voted against agricultural programs
Republicans put the bricks to farmers: Allen, Burns, Chafee, DeWine, Ensign, **********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against restoring $2.8 billion to agriculture programs. Midwest commercial.

voted against family planning
Republicans Allen, Burns, DeWine, Ensign, **********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Talent and Thomas voted against a resolution supporting $1 billion for family planning programs, such as teen pregnancy prevention. Moral values hypocrisy commercial.

wants to allow prepackaged news to come your way
Republicans Allen, Burns, Chafee, DeWine, Ensign, ***********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against refusing to establish any appropriations bill that allows funds to be provided for "prepackaged news stories" that do not have a disclaimer stating "Paid for by the United States Government" running throughout the presentation. Commercial.

voted against special education programs
Republicans Allen, Burns, DeWine, Ensign, ************Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against a reserve fund that would provide $71.3 billion for special education programs under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. Commercial.

[libnnc]

120. Okay people I just got off the phone with my mom

Her connection at WLOS is the one who reported the story. His name is Russ Bowen. He lives in Waynesville. He is WLOS's Haywood county guy. I've tried to call his cell phone...but no answer.

But here's the FREAKY-DEAKY part. The preacher's name is Chan Chandler. I THINK I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL WITH THIS CRETIN!!!

Frantically looking for my Tuscola Sr. High School annual....

[ultraist]

132. ewww...

Call him up! Ask him,is he out of his fucking mind?

So, Waynesville is Haywood county? Is this an all white church?

[libnnc]

137. probably all white...

[tavalon]

351. Ewwwwwwww..................

Time for some obsessive hand washing. You have been defiled if in fact this creature of the Antichrist actually went to school with you. I'm so sorry!

[callous taoboy]

504. Weird. We had a Chan Chandler at our H.S. too.....

He was a big-time get high, though.

[rockymountaindem]

121. How could there have been any Dems to begin with?

I mean, if we're all faithless sinners, what were any Democrats doing in church in the first place? I thought Democrats hated God? I thought we never went to church. Maybe they're just covering their bases, but I'm SURE nobody actually had to leave. If you believe in God, you automatically vote Republican, and if you vote Democratic then you automatically hate God, right?

:sarcasm:

[tavalon]

353. When I was growing up in the Southern Baptist Church

we were all Democrats. It was a given. Here's a fine example of the skill of the Rethugs in being able to turn the group mindthink to their advantage.

[Ronnie]

524. When I was growing up in the SBC...

I don't remember politics even being discussed.

[Spiffarino]

122. This is a no-shitter, folks

I saw it. It's happening. The people are freaking out. I'm freaking out.

The first thing my wife said was, "They need to call the IRS." I see that many of my fellow DUers figured that out as well. This is not a church any longer, it's a political organization. Time to pay your share, wingnuts.

[ultraist]

130. How far is Waynesville from Asheville? Is it in Buncombe county?

There are white supremacy hate groups concentrated in that area. I'm assuming this is an all white church. Most churches in NC are segregated.

I wouldn't be surprised if this church was tied to the KKK.

[libnnc]

133. Beautiful downtown Waynesville is located approx

40 miles west of Asheville in Haywood county.

[ultraist]

136. Oooooh...that's why an entire congregation would support this

[Spiffarino]

142. Waynesville is in Haywood Co.

I'm guessing it's an all-white church since the churches in the area are mostly one-color affairs whether by design or circumstance.

I don't know about any racist connections. There are almost as many churches as houses here, so it's hard to say what their story is. The news report said that lifelong Democrats who were members for 30-40 years were tossed out because they voted for John Kerry and wouldn't repent in front of the congregation.

The preacher, Chan Chandler, is a fairly young guy. I assume he's one of the new kind of Freeper preachers that the SBC is churning out in large numbers. Don't know about race, but Republicanism seems to have become Southern Baptist Convention dogma.

[starmaker]

144. Haywood co. 30 miles west

some of us enlightened locals call it haywire county
this is absurd and can't wait to here the gossip

[racaulk]

369. I went to college in western NC and used to live in Asheville

You're absolutely right, the KKK is very strong there, although I don't know if this particular church has ties to that organization.

The area is very heavily Caucasian. A college friend of mine who grew up in Canton, NC (also in Haywood County) had a high school graduating class of over 200. She was one of three African-American students in that class--there was one exchange student, and the rest were all Caucasian. She told me a story of how one of the other African-American students found a cross burning in his yard one morning because he was dating a Caucasian student. I'm not making this up! :scared:

Also, I remember a number of years back the KKK had a march in Asheville. They met with a large number of protesters, but the fact that they were even there in the first place is scary and is indicative of the racism that exists in that area.

As other posters have noted, Asheville is a very cool city, but it's surrounded by rural areas with a seemingly homogenous, uneducated populace. It's like a tiny blue island in a giant sea of red.

I'm a North Carolina native and lived in western North Carolina for about eight years (during and after college). This whole situation with that church really makes me sad, but I can't say that I'm entirely too surprised. :-(

[DesEtoiles]

123. Here's their phone number again 828 456 6841

[Spiffarino]

126. VOTE THIS UP!

Put this at the top of the Greatest page. This needs more eyeballs.

[PowerToThePeople]

134. Fundies suck

Pic edited for super inappropriateness =)

[Spiffarino]

145. That's fucking sick

That doesn't even pretend to be funny.

[PowerToThePeople]

153. It was overboard huh?

But sometimes I think we need to fight hate with hate. They are more than willing to be inhumaine to us, why do we try to treat them so good. We have a "thank you sir, may I have another" attitude.

[mmonk]

161. I liked it

but it has certain negative connotations in the south.

[Spiffarino]

173. I agree with your sentiment but

...burning churches? That's pure evil.

I say this as a gun-toting, in-your-face liberal Democrat who loves confrontations with right-wing idiots. I'll meet venom with venom, I'll be loud and proud, but I will never, never advocate burning a building. The innocent are the first to die.

[MadisonProgressive]

467. No, you would only burn it when nobody was in it - it's cool.

[DesEtoiles]

135. I sent this to ACLU of North Carolina [email protected]

[email protected]

[ultraist]

140. excellent!

We should write LTTE of the Asheville Times. (They endorsed Kerry).

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

[chomskysright]

462. Letter to Editor at Citizen-Times, Ashevill: [email protected]

[email protected]

Russell:

[chomskysright]

464. citizen times newspaper, Asheville (Waynesville is next city over):

828 252 5611: ask for news room

[libnnc]

141. I know I went to high school with this "preacher"

Chan Chandler. Damn IT!! My yearbooks are buried in the attic...

[satya]

146. Try classmates.com n/t

[georgia10]

148. I've posted it at DailyKos

hope you don't mind, but with madness like this, I thought this should get as much attention as possible!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/5/211218/4946

[ultraist]

158. Nice work!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/5/211218/4946

It Begins: Dems "Excommunicated" From Church?
by georgia10
Thu May 5th, 2005 at 18:12:18 PDT

For those that thought that there has not been a full scale war lanched against liberals; for those who didn't take the radical right's promise to "eradicate liberals" seriously, I present to you, Exhibit A: East Waynesville Baptist Church has just kicked out all its Democratic members.

Yes. You read that right. If you didn't vote for Bush, you had to "repent your sin". And finally, they figured why deal with the liberal sinners at all..
_______

NC has a Democratic Governor, Easley. I think I will email his office as well as my Congressman Price (Dem). BOTH of my Senators are Repugs.

[libnnc]

175. thank you thank you thank you

[Az]

150. Did I mention there was a culture war going on?

This is it. Plain for all to see. The religious right has destroyed the social contract. They no longer wish to play by its rules demanding tolerance and acceptance of other voices. They have all the voices they want and have declared an open war on society. Either we play by their rules or they will condemn us and banish us from their sight.

Get ready for more of this. Be ready for more advertising of their Jesus. Be ready for more demands of their voice determining the way this country is run.

[DanCa]

154. The red god vs the blue god

I can just see it now red and blue water fountains. You know I bet that's why thier hyping the runaway bride nonsense so much. They want to scare you into the sanctity of marriage meme.

[Guaranteed]

292. How about this one:

Old Testament vs. New Testament.

Hee hee we got dibs on Jesus.

[blondeatlast]

327. The only giggle possible in this thread. Thanks! nt

[Kipepeo]

151. Isn't this illegal?

I mean, aren't they essentially campaigning and isn't that illegal when you're a church?

Maybe I misunderstood.

[seafan]

152. 60 Minutes might be interested in this. And the IRS.

The ** is starting to hit the fan, y'all. Buckle up yer seat belts.

[paineinthearse]

198. KO, are you reading this? Corporate media, get your scoop yet?

Be sure you credit the tinhats at DU, thank you.

[chomskysright]

473. CNN COMMENT LINE: 404 827 1500

[chomskysright]

474. 60 Minutes: [email protected]

[seafan]

476. Thanks, sent last night. n/t

[IowaGuy]

155. And why is this church still enjoying the tax benefits of ...

non-profiit status....time for these fundies to put their money where their mouth is

[RedEarth]

156. Absolutely unbelievable....religious terrorist

[satya]

159. Are the RW extremists strategically placing operatives in pulpits now? n/t

[tavalon]

357. Actually, they've been doing it for 20 years or so

[qanda]

160. Is this for real?

Is there a link available?

[libnnc]

168. no on line link

I'm sure the Asheville Citizen-Times will run a story in the morning. The Waynesville paper will probably have something tomorrow afternoon (website prob. tomorrow night) Outside of giving you the television station reporter's cell phone number (which I have and have tried to call) that's all we've got.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

174. hopefully i will be able to record the audio of the newscast

the story is supposed to run tonight at 11pm.

and pass it on.

we just need someone with some webspace to host it.

[walldude]

186. Check your PM's I can host..

[libnnc]

163. Can I just say, from the bottom of my heart to all DUers

Thank you! For taking so much interest in the goings on of my freaky hometown. My Mom has been in local politics there for almost 20 years and she has witnessed the break down of civility and common sense (and has been on the recieving end of a lot of hate and vitriol for being a Dem). If there ever was a more telling and frightening thing to happen in a small mountain town, this is it. I want my hometown back. I want my country back. With your help, we can move mountains.

[Tsiyu]

177. Oh my word, child. We adore you for posting this!

libnc, how would we know if you weren't brave enough to let us know? I am alternating between derision for such blatant abuse of a church's function and visions in my head from the PBS special on the Death Camps in Nazi Germany.


How long? Is this what they plan? They are a minority here, and they had best remember this. Most Americans want freedom; only dogs like this Chan Chandler would stoop this low to gain a bit of power. Jesus had no use for men like this.

DO NOT let these fools take your beliefs away or frighten you. They are WRONG. And we must not ever forget that.

[blondeatlast]

330. Mom raised you right (er, Left). A big thank you to Mom--and you.

Having something happen like this in your hometown really hurts, I know.

Thanks for all the work to check into it.

:hug:

[yorkiemommie1]

420. thank your mom

...i admire her courage!

[Zen Democrat]

164. Those freaks who stood up & applauded were then excommunicated by Jesus.

[bmbmd]

166. Why is anyone surprised?

The church has already made unwelcome gays, blacks, hispanics, foreigners, single moms, disabled people, retarded people, poor people and innumerable other disenfranchised groups. It was only a matter of time until liberals, intellectuals, and democrats got the boot. We are, however, in good company-Jesus got kicked out of the mainstream church, too. It was right after "He made a whip of ropes, and he drove them from the temple, saying 'My Father's house is a house of prayer, but you have made it a house of commerce'".

[Vinca]

167. Who gets custody of the snakes?

Whenever I think things can't get more bizarre, the fundies always come through. IRS needs to be notified.

[DanCa]

171. I dont care about the snakes I want the whine (nt)

[Brianboru]

380. Take the snakes. Baptists use apple juice! n/t

[johnaries]

541. Not apple juice. Used to be Welch's grape, but switched to grape kool-aid

:evilgrin:

[DesEtoiles]

169. Once the Dems are gone, watch-they will start fighting each other

[Roland99]

170. On National Prayer Day? This Makes Baby Jesus Cry.

[DesEtoiles]

172. With the Dems goes all of the financial support for that church...

[donheld]

176. Sounds like anyone with 1/2 a brain would have left already

Who needs a church like that.

[PowerToThePeople]

178. When they pass on they will pass through..

[Tsiyu]

192. In the immortal words of Johnny Cash

"...I've turned my back on hatred, lying, prejudice and greed.
Found the future in the present.
Hope within a seed...

One thing that's for certain
One word that rings true...

It's a wicked world we live in but the truth is, we're only passin' through"

JC and One a them Scruggs boys

[marions ghost]

238. The Gates of... Hell ...

:evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown:

[RedEarth]

180. Keith Olberman might like to hear about this......

[mmonk]

183. good idea

[derby378]

403. Just e-mailed COUNTDOWN with this (n/t)

[Samantha]

185. Those expelled Dems should drive thru the streets blasting Gore's

last speech on a loudspeaker. They should zero in on the part where he discusses this Country being formed to escape oppression from England, where politics and religion were commingled to the point there was no freedom in either.

Al Gore, winner of the 2000 Presidential election, one of America's great statemen, is also ... a Southern Baptist.

Shame, shame, shame on these North Carolina Baptists who violated the word of God by sitting in judgment on their fellow man.

Shame, shame, shame.

I left the Baptist church when it came out in support of the pre-emptive attack on Iraq (the only church in the country to do so). If I hadn't left then, I would have had to have left a thousand times since then.

I live by the commandments I was thought as a child in a Southern Baptist church in Knoxville, Tennessee. And in all seriousness, that was a verse I learned as a child, "judge not lest ye be judged." How do these Baptists from North Carolina reconcile their actions with the teachings of the Bible?

Al Gore is a better man than I since he has been able to stay in the Church, but those Dems in North Carolina need to get that loudspeaker out and dust off that Gore speech.

[walldude]

187. This is insane, yet somehow I'm

not suprised. But I am glad, slowly but surely they are showing tehir true colors.. The IRS needs to get on alot of these "churches". I bet Focus On The Family still enjoys tax exempt status...

--edit-- nominated.. this is front page material. Also e-mailed a link to this thread to Olberman.. I think I'll shoot one off to the Daily show as well..

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

190. Any confirm yet?

As soon as someone sees a real news link, they should post on the breaking news page.

[Roland99]

191. Posts 81, 84, 90 and there's a LiveJournal link now

http://www.livejournal.com/community/anti_bush/541664.html

[Mich Otter]

189. Jon Stewart would love this for "The Daily Show"

Does anyone know how to get the info to Jon Stewart?

[sharman]

296. Wouldn'y you love to see

Samantha Bee interview Rev Chandler?

[sarahlee]

302. That would be wonderful!

Gotta get this to Jon and Keith Olberman.

[Done]

391. This would be good for the "God Machine".

[Duncan Grant]

194. Cheerleaders for Jesus!

It's like a damn sporting event (cue cheerleaders):

"We got spirit in our britches, yes we do.
We got spirit in our britches, yes we do.
We got spirit in our britches,
and it really, really itches,
We got spirit in our britches, yes we do."

Maybe we can have Salvation Sports Sunday on the local Faux affiliate? Lunacy. World gone mad.

[Misunderestimator]

259. LOL

:thumbsup: I'm hummin' now.

[blondeatlast]

331. Okay, giggle in this thread #2. Well-needed, too. Thanks. nt

[Nothing Without Hope]

196. Their tax-exempt status should be eliminated immediately

This is a political hate cult, not a church. There is absolutely no excuse for having the taxpayers support these raving fundie extremists. Either the policy changes are they are OUT.

And what do the other Baptist churches say? Are individual ministers allowed to go off into nutso land like this without any repercusssions?

[libnnc]

199. Asheville area DUers tune in to News 13 WLOS NOW!

It will probably be a quick blurb so heads up

I'm in Winston-Salem so I'm helpless

I need a play by play

[Roland99]

200. We're gonna need a new thread soon

:)

[libnnc]

201. Asheville area DUers tune in to News 13 NOW

prob be a short blurb so heads up

I need a play by play

I'm in Winston-Salem

[InfoMinister]

204. Anyway Anyone Can Record It

and post a file on the net?

[starmaker]

207. Sounds like 9 members xed

about 40 left in protest
preacher said if u voted for john kerry you were
for abortion and gays
said decision was not political

[Pirate Smile]

247. Thanks starmaker!

[Dawgs]

328. Interesting, since Kerry was NOT for gay marriage and...

abortions have increased since Bush has been in office.

[tavalon]

359. The forty who left in protest

and the Dems kicked out are the only Godly ones in that demon's pit. I'm glad they got out. They may just have saved their souls.

[lectrobyte]

202. Freaked out? I've been freaked out by fundie wierdness for years

now. I think people just don't understand what is really going on with a lot of these groups.

[Spiffarino]

205. LINK

http://www.spiffarino.completelyfreehosting.com/images/wlos.wmv

[mmonk]

206. heh heh

"not politically motivated". I guess lying isn't a sin in that church.

[Roland99]

208. Then why weren't Republicans kicked out?

[FreedomAngel82]

281. Exactly

Total bullshit. As Malloy said would this guy kick out Jimmy Carter? Knowing this person more then likely.

[blondeatlast]

334. Why wasn't the question asked "do you support abortion and/or gay rights?"

Far fewer asked to leave, probably, but by making it purely about votes for president and party affiliation, there's no doubt it's political.

[mzmolly]

213. I'm dying to steal that icon. ROTFLMAO.

:rofl:

[Spiffarino]

220. Really?

Heck, I can make you one similar to it. There was a picture floating around here...believe it or not, that guy has a twin.

Just tell me what you want it to say and it's yours.

[amerikat]

214. Thanks for that link

:yourock:

The good news was that 40 other members left in support of the ones that were expelled.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

217. Thanks for catching this

[proud patriot]

223. holy moley ...That confirms it for me

I've been watching this thread waiting .

I'm going to see if I can't get this to Malloy tonight

[carpe diem]

230. it is somewhat encouraging that ...

forty (40) REAL CHRISTIANS left the church in protest, but I wonder how may stayed and applauded...This needs to be on the networks and front pages by Monday.or at LEAST on Air America...I would LUV for the Whitehouse and the Republicans in congress to have to answer quesions about this...Scott McClellan at the daily briefing...everyone from Frist to McCain to Santorum to Hastert to Snowe and Chafee, all of them...make them say it out loud, on the record...either I CONDEMN the actions of this church/pastor or I condone/agree with it....excuse me if i don't hold my breath waiting for the MSM to press anyone on it, if it even gets covered...

[InfoMinister]

236. One of My Friends Decided To Post Your Link On Milkandcookies

It's a site where people post links to videos and websites. He didn't ask me before he did this. Anyway, if you want him to remove it I'll tell him to do so. I don't want your bandwidth to be used up.

http://www.milkandcookies.com/links/30022/

Anyway, if you don't care go vote for it on the main page.

http://www.milkandcookies.com/links/30022/details/

[Richard Steele]

245. Thanks for linking that, Spiffarino. I posted this in the NC forum...

...with full credit to libnnc for the OP, and to you for the link.

I just don't know what to even SAY about this bullshit.

There's no point in pretending that this is just a 'different opinion' anymore; these Fascimentalists are waging WAR on America and it's Laws.

Why do they hate FREEDOM so much?

[Maru Kitteh]

248. What the hell country is this anyway?

It's like watching something from a really bad movie.

[proud patriot]

273. Mike Malloy Just mentioned the News report

:hi:

[Tux]

278. Er....

Can we have that in a MPEG format for the Linux users?

[Spiffarino]

284. I don't know

I had to use wmv to get it small enough to host it. I'll see what I can do with my limited software.

I wasn't thinking about the Penguinheads...sorry!

[Spiffarino]

290. Done, but not the best

I dl'd a trial version of some ripping software. It puts an annoyance graphic into the video, but the sound is all there.

http://www.spiffarino.completelyfreehosting.com/images/wlos.mpg

Windows users, please use the other link...thanks.

[Tux]

297. Thanks

No sound but thanks. Most likely my sound card. That and media players blow on my notebook PC. Damn Dell.

[americanstranger]

319. Yo, right here.

http://www.blah3.com/downloads/wlos.mpg

-as

[SheepyMcSheepster]

209. ok, i have got an audio recording of the 11pm broadcast

sent to another DU'er for hosting, hopefully it will be up soon!


edit: nevermind, i see someone was able to get a video capture up already. here is the link: http://www.spiffarino.completelyfreehosting.com/images/wlos.wmv

[Spiffarino]

229. Who's the DUer?

I'd like him to help with the hosting if he could. My bandwidth is getting creamed.

[proud patriot]

232. bpilgrim I believe

you could ask him :hi:

[Spiffarino]

249. Thanks PP!

:D

[SheepyMcSheepster]

301. check PM. eom

[Lorien]

210. They'll need to expell the teachings of Jesus, too

since he is one of the most radical left wing liberals in history.

[wishlist]

212. Over 40 members of church have left due to anti-Dem position of church

I just saw the broadcast. It was short and not very detailed or explained completely. Reporter said pastor and leaders of church oppose Democrats based on positions about homosexuality and abortion. A former member was shown on TV and stated that they were told that anyone who did not vote for Bush was against the church. Reporter said that the pastor was contacted by WLOS and responded that the church's stance was not politically motivated.

[Catherine Vincent]

221. Those 40 that walked out in protest are my kind of republicans.

Surely this preacher should know this will be negative on his church? I don't know the nationality of this preacher but how long before all the whites or blacks are expelled?

It makes me even more proud to see that Unitarian Church commercial. that was ingenious.

[jus_the_facts]

243. ....."the church's stance was not politically motivated. :....".

....ooookay?! :banghead:

[blondeatlast]

337. We can't let this get spun out. There is simply no way that the good rever

can say that and not be LYING.

It wasn't about the ones who disbelieved church teaching on abortion and/or gay rights, it was about party affiliation.

In the back of my mind, I wish the 40 Republicans (who did the right thing, and God bless 'em) hadn't walked out. It would have strengthened the postion if they hadn't, but they were doing the right thing as they saw it.

[tavalon]

363. UGH!

"Reporter said that the pastor was contacted by WLOS and responded that the church's stance was not politically motivated."

Did WLOS or said reporter happen to mention that that was a baldfaced lie? No, probably not.

[GreenPartyVoter]

215. Please let me know when there is a web video or transcript?

[SheepyMcSheepster]

216. here

http://www.spiffarino.completelyfreehosting.com/images/wlos.wmv

[alfredo]

233. Send this to Bill Maher

He'd love it.

[Bouncy Ball]

237. Um, wow.

This is.....just sick.

Why do I expect it to happen more and more? So glad I belong to a UU church. We would NEVER throw someone out for political reasons. In fact, seeing as it's a creedless church, I'm having a hard time thinking of many reasons why we would throw anyone out, besides violent or disturbing/criminal behavior.

Got that's horrific.

[libnnc]

218. My local ABC station has run this story!!! Sinclair affiliates both

They showed a pic. I DID go to school with Chan Chandler!

[Catherine Vincent]

222. Oh really?

Well I think your ex school mate is about to get a lot of heat for what he did.

[libnnc]

226. good! He was kind of distant as I remember

ROTC guy. Really quiet and not very friendly.

[tavalon]

364. Probably a sociopath

He graduated from torturing frogs to being the head of a crazy church. Oh, wait, I had that wrong. It was Bush who tortured frogs and is now the head of our country.

Sorry.

[RevCheesehead]

219. I did a summer intership in the area many years ago.

There are a few pockets of hard-line fundamentalism, but this is the first time I've seen anyone actually state their prejudice up-front.

Ironically, Waynesville is also the home to the SouthEast Jurisdictional Headquarters of the United Methodist Church (Lake Junaluska).

Wonder if the preacher is going to wear his white sheet to church next week.

[lildreamer316]

227. Ummm

I propose that we give them some pressure...nothing crazy or illegal, mind you, just alot of attention etc.. Anyone?

[Catherine Vincent]

235. The telephone number is posted.

I'm calling right now.

[Gardeaux08]

253. Better yet,

Google Chan Chandler+Waynesville NC and see what you get...

[libnnc]

270. Doh!!

aye carramba!!

not many folks in Waynesville have unlisted numbers...

[tavalon]

365. Naw, that would be too honest

These snakes like to slither out from under rocks (like Lucifer) and then scuttle back under before they are exposed for the evil charlatans they are.

[norml]

225. Zero News Search Results for "East Waynesville Baptist Church"

http://news.google.com/news?q=%22East%20Waynesville%20Baptist%20Church%22&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wn

[Bluebear]

228. Did you see the link above?

The TV news?

[Catherine Vincent]

241. I just called. After three tries I finally got thru.

The answering machine greeting ended with God bless you, I don't know if that was the preacher or someone else.

I couldn't really think of anything to say but I said Shame on you about five times and hung up.:-) I will call again tomorrow.

[lonestarnot]

239. This for real? Appartied com'n. Cause I definitely hate them and all the

bitches stand for!

[wishlist]

240. I'm glad that Democrats from this church are speaking out against this

Living in Western N.C., I first became aware of the widespread demonizing of Democrats by conservative churches during the 2000 campaign with the use of political voting guides, phone banking using inflammatory claims about Democrats promoting late term abortions, and heavyhanded propaganda in the churches including showing graphic anti-abortion films to churchgoers to convince them to vote for Repubs. I have seen the voters guides, gotten the phone calls and heard a lot about this from Democratic friends who attend or used to attend these churches and talked to me about being made to feel guilty for voting Democratic because of what their church leaders were telling them. I am proud of those East Waynesville Democrats who are brave enough to speak out publicly on camera about what's been going on.

[nytemare]

382. Yes, and the video said 40 others left the church in protest

Good for them!

[mitchum]

242. FUCK THOSE DAMN PSALM-SINGING SHITHEADS...

I REALLY DO HATE THEM!

[libnnc]

246. AGAIN...THANK YOU DUers!!

Wow!! You guys ROCK!

I've been a member here since a little after the election and have lurked for longer. I don't post that much (and I certainly don't start threads unless its really important). I usually on the Randi Rhodes Message Board. I'm amazed and honored to be a part of such a wonderful online community.

Thanks again for giving a damn.

[amerikat]

254. NO, thank you for bringing this to our attention.

9 folks get booted out and forty more stand up to support them. Now that is inspiring.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

303. thanks for the heads up on the story

i am local and i wouldn't have heard about it if it wasn't for you posting. thanks, you helped nationally break a major story today.

:yourock:

[legally blonde]

251. This is fucking unbelievable!

What is happening to our country??? :scared:

[FreedomAngel82]

286. Something I wonder

what if there were any republicans who voted for Kerry? Did they get to stay?

[raccoon]

405. I'd say it's going to hell in a handbasket nt

[Hand]

255. "Woe unto ye, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!" nt

[Dorian Gray]

256. Okay...

If this is true, it's horrible. Disgusting.

[walldude]

257. It's true here's the newscast

http://home.comcast.net/~walldude1/wlos.wmv

Spiffarino had limited bandwidth and asked me to host the file...

[Spiffarino]

282. And thank you for it!

:D:thumbsup:

[annabanana]

321. Please start new thread with this link!!!!

And thanks for the added bandwidth (all the other sites are overwhelmed!)

[finecraft]

258. Blogsphere picking up the story

Hoffmania's blog http://hoffmania.typepad.com/blog/ has picked it up. He also has a link to the video of the newscast. This is what he ways:

"Here's the video of the WLOS-TV story (A Sinclair Station!). Unbelievable. Churchgoers being barred from the East Waynesville (NC) Baptist Church for being Democrats. 40 others walked out in protest.

Welcome to hell."

Great blog by the way. One I read every day, and I recommend it highly.

[salin]

262. The expulsion isn't the only horror in this story

but the coercion of everyone else in the membership... imagine - I trust the person speaking from the pulpit and believe that what he tells me is true (I use "he" intentionally, as some of these churches do not allow women to speak from the pulpit) - and I am told, repeatedly, that this is God's will... after repeated repudiations of those who vote independently from the speech of the pulpit... and now with real "consequences" of said independent thought... Frightening mix. Would guess that this is really intended to target the general congregation rather than the few that were pushed out, or protested themselves out... it is a power play to keep everyone else in line. Quite the abuse of power.

Frightening thing is that unless this story gets picked up nationally, and has a true public backlash.... this move will be repeated in churches across the nation.

These are the moments that try me as a Christian. The ability to manipulate in the name of the religion is frightening. And the direction these folks interpret the religion, in my eyes is blasphemous... use Jesus's name to push policies that go directly against the teachings of the namesake of the religion.

It seems as though in some places we really are reaching back in history to reclaim its ugliest face. Why do I say this? Because this is the first move in dehumanizing "others" - and basing it upon political beliefs. When we no longer believe in the humaness of others - we grow much more likely to commit atrocities - believing that we are doing it for the "greater good" - and getting rid of the "other" is part of that formula.

I hope that this story gets picked up - and that it frightens folks on a massive scale. Only that sort of public reaction and repudiation would prevent this from becoming the next trend from many a pulpit.

[fudge stripe cookays]

346. Ugh, salin, you're so right.

Liberal churches need to be stepping up their advertising right now in an attempt to lure these faithful somewhere where they can be accepted and not demonized.

I really feel sick to my stomach right now.
FSC

[Occulus]

436. they CAN'T

Was it ABC who recently allowed Focus on the Family ads and then denied the "Jesus wouldn't turn anyone away" ad for the UU church?

Ugh.

[fudge stripe cookays]

469. I hate the word can't.

You're right though.

I think buying a billboard across the street with arrows pointing to the church and the large word "hypocrites" would make a nice statement, wouldn't you?

FSC

[hippywife]

557. If I'm not mistaken

that ad was by the UCC not the UU church.

[salin]

571. cynically I respond - haha!

The United Church of Christ tried to air an advertisement around their belief of being open and affirming to all folks (ie gays are welcome) - and some networks refused to air it (even though they were going to pay the going rate).. on the grounds that they stay neutral on religious groups. That happened several months ago. The same network began running Focus on the Family ads within the past week. That is - the networks WONT show the liberal branch of the Christian Church - that is dedicated to social justice BECAUSE of their spiritual beliefs. We are currently silenced.

[RedEarth]

396. That's exactly right......pastors using their bully pulpit to

manipulate the congreation....Karl Rove and the republican party picked up on this years ago and since they know how powerful churches can be in getting "their" message out.

[InfoMinister]

260. Go Vote For The News Footage Here

Lets try to get this video some exposure. Go to this link and vote for it as well.

http://www.milkandcookies.com/links/30022/details/

Also, if anyone can host it somewhere else I'll tell Zack to use a different link to handle all of the bandwidth.

[RagingInMiami]

263. "the actions were not politically motivated"?

Did he receive a sign from god telling him to kick these people out of his church?

[chalky]

264. It got through to Malloy! He's reading it on air now. n/m

[Roland99]

265. WAY Cool!!!

[libnnc]

266. Wow! Mike talked about it!

[InfoMinister]

277. Wow, He's Really Going Off On That Minister!

Little pissant preacher!

[Spiffarino]

267. More LINKs to the video

http://www.christopherbair.com/dailykos/wlos.wmv

http://www.hoffmania.com/blog/files/wlos.wmv


Thanks so much to Chris and Hoffman for sharing the load! :D:thumbsup:

[flordehinojos]

268. seems like there is some sort of WITCH HUNTING open season in NC, or at

least in that preachers mind DEMOCRATS seem to have become WITCHES in need of HUNTING.

THE BUSHES ARE FLOODING THIS COUNTRY WITH BACKWOOD TRAILER TRASH IGNORANCE.

[tavalon]

368. The Witch hunt analogy is a good one and not as inflammatory

as the one I thought of. I know someone else thought of my analogy too, though as they mentioned the Yellow "D" being sewn on to us.

[katamaran]

269. I work at an ABC affiliate in VA

I sent the clip to our executive producer and two other producers (all Dems). Maybe we'll pick it up. Our News Director is a Repug though...he may nix it. But both our top anchors are diehard Dems :D

[seabeyond]

293. welcome katamaran

good to hear. thanks for doing htis. hope it gets on. let us know

[Alizaryn]

305. As far as I am concerned this is not Democratic or

Republican its plain old SCARY!

[tavalon]

370. Fascist, actually.

Not the first sign by any means but surely more overt than some of the others.

[sarcasmo]

379. This is the new Republican and get used to it.

[AuntiBush]

570. Welcome, Katamaran!

It's great to hear about those "diehard Dem" anchors! Shew... and again, welcome aboard!

:hi:

[Demonaut]

271. and Jesus wept

this was bound to happen, it was just a matter of time.

[OnionPatch]

272. And THEY are the ones being persecuted?!!

n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

287. Really

How disgusting. Maybe with this story people would open their eyes. I don't know. I posted it on a Christian board I frequent so who knows who'll see it. So far one person said they thought it was a stupid decision and they were republican.

[sakabatou]

275. That is really, really... fundamentalist

to excommunicate someone on just political beliefs? That's horrible!

[lonestarnot]

276. Ewww Tumbudy trew da first rock! Rock out... Rock for all free for all!

[tridim]

279. Check this.. Another Church in Midland TX is doing a similar thing

In a roundabout sort of way.

http://www.mywesttexas.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14473329&BRD=2288&PAG=461&dept_id=475626&rfi=6

A large portion of the St. Nicholas' Episcopal Church parish dissatisfied with the direction of the national Episcopal Church was told this week by diocese officials to leave church property by June 1.

A parish vote taken in March indicated 89 percent of the congregation preferred to dissociate itself with the national Episcopal Church but remain a part of the worldwide Anglican Communion.

The national Episcopal Church, or ECUSA, is one of 38 provinces of the Anglican Communion which originated as the Church of England and spread to 70 million members worldwide.

Dissenting members of St. Nicholas' object to decisions made by the 2003 ECUSA General Convention which elected Gene Robinson, a practicing homosexual man, as bishop of New Hampshire. Other points of contention include ECUSA's approval of same-sex marriage blessings and "refusal to adhere to traditional Christian teachings."
<snip>

[Roland99]

283. That's different. That's more procedural.

This was just blind hatred.

[JerseygirlCT]

342. They're free to leave, but what they don't want to get

is that the church building and property doesn't belong to the parish, but to the diocese. So they can go play somewhere else, but the church is staying...

[BrightKnight]

280. Are they a PAC? Can they remain tax exempt? - n/t

[artemisia1]

298. I'm afraid this "Pastor" will be a hero

to many in his area. Like the, prior to his militant support for Segregation, unreelectable Gov. Faubus of Arkansas, he will become a celebrity among the bigoted masses. I bet he gains more members than he loses. Right now in a town near you, bigot one is turning to bigot two and saying - "...finally there's someone willing to stick up for Christian principles in this world...".

[Spiffarino]

299. This is getting an amazing amount of attention

I just looked at my host's stats and checked the hits on the news video. It's spreading like a virus. Religion sites, music sites, political, general BS sites...amazing.

There is a great deal of outrage out there and precious few apologists. This is backfiring on the theocrats.

[leftofthedial]

300. mental illness

gotta love that old time religion

[ProudDad]

304. I've converted it to Real Video 10

If anyone can host it, I'd be happy to email you the Real Video version.

It's about 300K bytes.

Cheers;

[DaDeacon]

308. Now They can find a better church

[Q]

310. Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations

Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations

Publication 1828 (Rev. 7-02)

Internal Revenue Service
1111 Constitution Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20224
Attn: T:EO:CE&O

---------------------------------

EXCERPT:

Political Campaign Activity

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all IRC Section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches and
religious organizations, are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or
intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public
office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written)
made by or on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office
clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violation of this prohibition may result
in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For
example, certain voter education activities (including the presentation of public forums and the
publication of voter education guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited
political campaign activity. In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the
electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not constitute prohibited
political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner. On the other hand, voter education or
registration activities with evidence of bias that (a) would favor one candidate over another, or (b) oppose
a candidate in some manner, or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will
constitute prohibited participation or intervention.



7


Individual Activity by Religious Leaders

The political campaign activity prohibition is not intended to restrict free expression on political
matters by leaders of churches or religious organizations speaking for themselves, as individuals.
Nor are leaders prohibited from speaking about important issues of public policy. However, for
their organizations to remain tax-exempt under IRC Section 501(c)(3), religious leaders cannot
make partisan comments in official organization publications or at official church functions. To
avoid potential attribution of their comments outside of church functions and publications,
religious leaders who speak or write in their individual capacity are encouraged to clearly indicate
that their comments are personal and not intended to represent the views of the organization.

The following are examples of situations involving endorsements by religious leaders.

Example 1: Minister A is the minister of Church J and is well
known in the community. With their permission, Candidate T
publishes a full-page ad in the local newspaper listing five
prominent ministers who have personally endorsed Candidate T,
including Minister A. Minister A is identified in the ad as the
minister of Church J. The ad states, “Titles and affiliations of
each individual are provided for identification purposes only.”
The ad is paid for by Candidate T’s campaign committee. Since
the ad was not paid for by Church J, the ad is not otherwise in an
official publication of Church J, and the endorsement is made by
Minister A in a personal capacity, the ad does not constitute
campaign intervention by Church J.

Example 2: Minister B is the minister of Church K. Church K
publishes a monthly church newsletter that is distributed to all
church members. In each issue, Minister B has a column titled
"My Views." The month before the election, Minister B states in
the "My Views" column, "It is my personal opinion that
Candidate U should be reelected." For that one issue, Minister B
pays from his personal funds the portion of the cost of the
newsletter attributable to the “My Views” column. Even though
he paid part of the cost of the newsletter, the newsletter is an
official publication of the church. Since the endorsement
appeared in an official publication of Church K, it constitutes
campaign intervention attributed to Church K.

Example 3: Minister C is the minister of Church L and is well
known in the community. Three weeks before the election he
attends a press conference at Candidate V's campaign
headquarters and states that Candidate V should be reelected.
Minister C does not say he is speaking on behalf of his church.
His endorsement is reported on the front page of the local



8

newspaper and he is identified in the article as the minister of
Church L. Since Minister C did not make the endorsement at an
official church function, in an official church publication or
otherwise use the church's assets, and did not state that he was
speaking as a representative of Church L, his actions did not
constitute campaign intervention attributable to Church L.

Example 4: Minister D is the minister of Church M. During
regular services of Church M shortly before the election,
Minister D preached on a number of issues, including the
importance of voting in the upcoming election, and concludes by
stating, “It is important that you all do your duty in the election
and vote for Candidate W.” Since Minister D’s remarks
indicating support for Candidate W were made during an official
church service, they constitute political campaign intervention
attributable to Church M.

Inviting a Candidate to Speak

Depending on the facts and circumstances, a church or religious organization may invite political
candidates to speak at its events without jeopardizing its tax-exempt status. Political candidates
may be invited in their capacity as candidates, or individually (not as a candidate).

Speaking as a candidate. Like any other IRC Section 501(c)(3) organization, when a
candidate is invited to speak at a church or religious organization event as a political
candidate, the church or religious organization must take steps to ensure that:
• It provides an equal opportunity to the political candidates seeking the same
office,
• It does not indicate any support of or opposition to the candidate (this should be
stated explicitly when the candidate is introduced and in communications
concerning the candidate’s attendance), and
• No political fundraising occurs.

Equal opportunity to participate. Like any other IRC Section 501(c)(3)
organization, in determining whether candidates are given an equal opportunity to
participate, a church or religious organization should consider the nature of the event
to which each candidate is invited, in addition to the manner of presentation. For
example, a church or religious organization that invites one candidate to speak at its
well attended annual banquet, but invites the opposing candidate to speak at a
sparsely attended general meeting, will likely be found to have violated the political
campaign prohibition, even if the manner of presentation for both speakers is
otherwise neutral.

Public Forum. Sometimes a church or religious organization invites several
candidates to speak at a public forum. A public forum involving several candidates
for public office may qualify as an exempt educational activity. However, if the
forum is operated to show a bias for or against any candidate, then the forum would
be prohibited campaign activity, as it would be considered intervention or
participation in a political campaign. When an organization invites several
candidates to speak at a forum, it should consider the following factors:



9

• Whether questions for the candidate are prepared and presented by an
independent nonpartisan panel,
• Whether the topics discussed by the candidates cover a broad range of issues
that the candidates would address if elected to the office sought and are of
interest to the public,
• Whether each candidate is given an equal opportunity to present his or her
views on the issues discussed,
• Whether the candidates are asked to agree or disagree with positions,
agendas, platforms or statements of the organization, and
• Whether a moderator comments on the questions or otherwise implies
approval or disapproval of the candidates.

The following are two examples of situations where a church or religious organization
invites a candidate(s) to speak before the congregation.

Example 5: Minister E is the minister of Church N. In the
month prior to the election, Minister E invited the three
Congressional candidates for the district in which Church N is
located to address the congregation, one each on three successive
Sundays, as part of regular worship services. Each candidate
was given an equal opportunity to address and field questions on
a wide variety of topics from the congregation. Minister E’s
introduction of each candidate included no comments on their
qualifications or any indication of a preference for any candidate.
The actions do not constitute political campaign intervention by
Church N.

Example 6: Minister F is the minister of Church O. The Sunday
before the November election, Minister F invited Senate
Candidate X to preach to her congregation during worship
services. During his remarks, Candidate X stated, “I am asking
not only for your votes, but for your enthusiasm and dedication,
for your willingness to go the extra mile to get a very large
turnout on Tuesday.” Minister F invited no other candidate to
address her congregation during the Senatorial campaign.
Because these activities took place during official church
services they are attributed to Church O. By selectively
providing church facilities to allow Candidate X to speak in
support of his campaign, Church O’s actions constitute political
campaign intervention.



10


Speaking as a non-candidate. Like any other IRC Section 501(c)(3) organization, a
church or religious organization may invite political candidates (including church
members) to speak in a non-candidate capacity. For instance, a political candidate may
be a public figure because he or she: (a) currently holds, or formerly held, public office,
(b) is considered an expert in a non-political field, or (c) is a celebrity or has led a
distinguished military, legal, or public service career. When a candidate is invited to
speak at an event in a non-candidate capacity, it is not necessary for the church or
religious organization to provide equal access to all political candidates. However, the
church or religious organization must ensure that:
• The individual speaks only in a non-candidate capacity,
• Neither the individual nor any representative of the church makes any
mention of his or her candidacy or the election, and
• No campaign activity occurs in connection with the candidate's attendance.

In addition, the church or religious organization should clearly indicate the capacity in
which the candidate is appearing and should not mention the individual's political
candidacy or the upcoming election in the communications announcing the candidate's
attendance at the event.

Below are examples of situations where a public official appears at a church or religious
organization in an official capacity, and not as a candidate.

Example 7: Church P is located in the state capital. Minister G
customarily acknowledges the presence of any public officials
present during services. During the state gubernatorial race,
Lieutenant Governor Y, a candidate, attended a Wednesday
evening prayer service in the church. Minister G acknowledged
the Lieutenant Governor’s presence in his customary manner,
saying, “We are happy to have worshiping with us this evening
Lieutenant Governor Y.” Minister G made no reference in his
welcome to the Lieutenant Governor’s candidacy or the election.
Minister G’s actions do not constitute political campaign
intervention by Church P.

Example 8: Minister H is the minister of Church Q. Church Q
is building a community center. Minister H invites
Congressman Z, the representative for the district containing
Church Q, to attend the groundbreaking ceremony for the
community center. Congressman Z is running for reelection at
the time. Minister H makes no reference in her introduction to
Congressman Z’s candidacy or the election. Congressman Z
also makes no reference to his candidacy or the election and does
not do any fundraising while at Church Q. Church Q has not
intervened in a political campaign.

Voter Guides

Like other IRC Section 501(c)(3) organizations, some churches and religious organizations
undertake voter education activities by distributing voter guides. Voter guides, generally, are
distributed during an election campaign and provide information on how all candidates stand on



11

various issues. These guides may be distributed with the purpose of educating voters, however,
they may not be used to attempt to favor or oppose candidates for public elected office.

A careful review of the following facts and circumstances may help determine whether or not a
church or religious organization’s publication or distribution of voter guides constitute prohibited
political campaign activity.
• Whether the candidates’ positions are compared to the organization’s position,
• Whether the guide includes a broad range of issues that the candidates would address
if elected to the office sought,
• Whether the description of issues is neutral,
• Whether all candidates for an office are included, and
• Whether the descriptions of candidates’ positions are either:
o The candidates’ own words in response to questions, or
o A neutral, unbiased and complete compilation of all candidates’ positions.

The following are examples of situations where churches distribute voter guides.

Example 9: Church R distributes a voter guide prior to
elections. The voter guide consists of a brief statement from the
candidates on each issue made in response to a questionnaire
sent to all candidates for governor of State I. The issues on the
questionnaire cover a wide variety of topics and were selected by
Church R based solely on their importance and interest to the
electorate as a whole. Neither the questionnaire nor the voter
guide, through their content or structure, indicate a bias or
preference for any candidate or group of candidates. Church R is
not participating or intervening in a political campaign.

Example 10: Church S distributes a voter guide during an
election campaign. The voter guide is prepared using the
responses of candidates to a questionnaire sent to candidates for
major public offices. Although the questionnaire covers a wide
range of topics, the wording of the questions evidences a bias on
certain issues. By using a questionnaire structured in this way,
Church S is participating or intervening in a political campaign.


http://www.americanunitarian.org/Legal/IRS%20Publicatio...

[salin]

311. Great find - clear violation

but will a bush admin irs do anything about even such an egregious violation?

[tavalon]

371. or public statements of position (verbal or written)

Do we have them? Can we get their tax exempt status revoked based on this?

[ananda]

312. groucho

I wouldn't want to join any that would have me as a member.

lol

Sue

[Tesla]

323. What is is with Waynesville??

My brother lives in Waynesville Ohio, reported to be the most haunted city in the country.
There has been a church there for almost 200 years named "Ferry Road Church of God". A couple of years ago, the preacher and congregation raised money for a new sign, to change the name to "Crossroads Church of God".
They wanted to change the name so "the gays" wouldn't think "Ferry" meant gay, and that they were welcome.
Wouldn't want to have any of "them" sitting next to you in church!!

God is Love..... as long as you are Christian.

[OrlandoGator]

313. Sounds like a jihad to me.

n/t

[Timbuk3]

314. I just sent this link to buzzflash

http://www.spiffarino.completelyfreehosting.com/images/wlos.wmv

If there's a better one, please send it to them.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contact/newstip.html

[Timbuk3]

316. I decided to host it, too

There are too many messages here to read them all this morning, but I saw that there were some bandwidth issues.

If spiffarino's link gets saturated, I put it on my site, too. It's not linked on the index, yet, but this link works.

http://www.timbuk3.com/wlos.wmv

[americanstranger]

322. Yup, me, too.

And Atrios picked up the post from my blog.

http://www.blah3.com

-as

[Roland99]

350. I posted a thread in the forums at RawStory

[annabanana]

315. The First Fristian Baptist Church of East Waynesville!

Sing Halleluja, All Praise G.W.!
Amen!

[Timbuk3]

318. Seig Halleluja is more like it

Christians everywhere should be alarmed by this.

[Dob Bole]

320. The expelled members should SUE.....

First of all, Baptist churches have a democratic process. They have bylaws that all of the members have agreed upon. If one of those bylaws does not call for excommunication at all, but especially for political reasons, then they can sue.

In addition, the Pastor is employed by the members of the church. He cannot excommunicate anyone unless the church members have a) formally granted him authority, or b) voted them out themselves.

If the people of that church will sue their way back in, that would serve as a deterrent to this happening in other churches.

[chomskysright]

604. Their lawyer was there today at church with me and press...

[ohio_liberal]

332. REAL MEDIA Video File here:

http://home.comcast.net/~crackodawn37/wlos.rm

[forgethell]

333. That doesn't

sound like any Baptist church I ever heard of. For one thing, the preacher doesn't have that kind of authority.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

343. But doesn't the preacher run his church the way he wants?

given the recent history of the Southern Baptist Church, this kind of behaviour is within the realm of possibility.

[forgethell]

362. No.

Not in the SBC. The church doesn't like the preacher, out he goes. Baptists are the most democratic of all churches. Each church is independent from higher authority. Neither the SBC, nor the state conventins can tell a church what to do. Of course, they can kick them out of the convention. But it wouldn't be done simply on the authority of the officers.

Besides, the are a l ot of different Baptist conventions. Not all of them are SBC. Plus there are many, many independent Baptist churches unaffiliated with any conventions whatsoever.

[seabeyond]

400. then dont they have a christian obligation to stand up

and speak out. whose responsibility is this hostility to fellow man. mine. cause i assure you, i have done nothing, to no one

[bloom]

447. "Explain the Baptist Church here...."

AMY GOODMAN: Explain the Baptist Church here. I mean, you're Baptist. Mohler is Baptist. What's the difference?

REV. JOSEPH PHELPS: Well, we both -- we share in common our desire to see God's will done on earth as in heaven. I'm a graduate of the Southern Seminary back in the late 1970s, where our mission at the time was we're out to change the world, which sounds sort of domination-like, but our agenda was to try to follow the way of Jesus, of love, of unity, of hope, casting a different vision, the day when the lion and the lamb lie down together, or the elephant and the donkey lie down together. We work together in love. In the late 1970s there was a takeover. Ostensibly the issue was the Bible, but the real issue was control: who gets to decide how the Bible's interpreted, whether women could be ministers, what the agenda of the Church will be. And slowly, but effectively, they took over the leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention. As a result, we're able to appoint trustees, who then appointed Dr. Mohler as president, who completely cleaned house at the seminary. Southern Seminary used to be one of the top ten theological institutions in the world. All of those professors have now been fired or forced out, and --

AMY GOODMAN: On what grounds? On what grounds?

REV. JOSEPH PHELPS: Just on theological grounds, on the grounds that they weren't conforming to the strict literal in their interpretation of the Bible, as is prescribed by Dr. Mohler and the new takeover group. The reason this is important, I think, to your larger audience, as I said earlier, is because this group's agenda now bleeds over, not only into beyond the issue of the Southern Baptist Convention, to our larger culture. That same kind of domination agenda -- which says we're right, you're wrong; we're going to save you from yourself by telling you not only what the Bible says, but now what the Constitution says -- has enormous implications for our democracy.

<snip>

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean disestablishment?

REV. JOSEPH PHELPS: Well, the Constitution, the First Amendment sought to disestablish religion, to not have an established religion. In junior high school, I learned this long word with 28 letters, antidisestablishmentarianism. I never knew what it meant. Now I do. It is Al Mohler and that group. They want to redesign, redefine our nation's history, no longer being disestablishment people, but going back and creating a strict religious theocracy.

<more>

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/05/1429230

[seabeyond]

358. bullshit, sorry pissed of the moment

did an end of the year program for 5th and 6th graders last nite at a christian fundie school. teh last preformance, lost all control and told a friend in such relief, man, i am glad i pulled my boys out in nov. after the umpteenth quote from bible out of kids mouth preaching to me.......lordy

to walk home to this article, and cheney saying other faith, and I..I..I..I..I.. want to know exactly what MY vp means by saying i am of the other fuckin faith. i want him to tell me what other faith is NOW........

the woman at the pharmacy attacked

the woman at her HER sisters funeral attack. along with the parents and husband

after last nite and watching these poeple, in this school. and the whole feel of energy. just the grossest

so, i beg to differ. this is exactly the baptist. havent you been watching. i can give example all over. i have walked and watched and listened for 6 years.

how about the head dude in the southern baptist org calling the ministers and telling them to tell their congregation (sheep) that jesus will know how they voted. when it is time for you to face jesus he will pull out election 2004. and that will be the determination of heaven or hell

so to tell me doesnt sound like the baptist, is for me to suggest, you havent been paying attention

[forgethell]

DUPE

[forgethell]

375. Seeing as how

I am a Baptist, yes, I think I have been paying attention. That being said, it is extremely easy to start a Baptist church, so there are some nut-job ones out there. But to lump all Baptists together like that is bigotry, pure and simple.

On edit: However, Baptist churches do have a long history of splitting over trivial issues, so maybe it does sound like a Baptist church, after all.

[seabeyond]

392. these baptists are family, my children

nieces........these are people i love. this is mainstream. this is my community. we have talked and listened for a lot of years.

i am not attacking baptist anymore than i am attacking catholics. this is what baptists are doing. saying. it is NOT on me. i am just giving back to the baptist, what they are saying to me. and i am challenging who they are saying i am. i have that right. i am not challenging the baptist on who they are.

i have a bus in town, painted black with flames, church up the street. hollowed out super grocery store. youth calvary, with youth warriors

this black bus that is all over our town, representing our youth, has a white dove in middle of flames. my 7 years old and 9 year old a bit bothered the white dove was burning. they are sensitive

another mini bus, another church, painted in fatique, bold print GODS ARMY. who are they battling

satan

who is satan

democrat

our religious leaders, and political leaders are saying so

other faith. this is my children. they are other faith. this community does not have the right to do this to my boys. and the baptist should speak out. those that know my boys lite, and say, no baby. but they dont. they validate adn justify and defend this behavior.

and our hearts hurt

[AmBlue]

532. This reminds me of Nazi Germany...

My father-in-law, who was there, was telling us about it just last night. When the German children were "joined up" to be members of Hitler's Youth, it was the children's duty to spy against their own families. If parents didn't approve of their child's membership or of Hitler in particular, the kids were taught to tell on them. They became the children of Der Fuhrer, were literally adopted by the state, and their parents were sent to "indoctrination" (read "extermination") camps.

IS THIS WHERE AMERICA IS HEADED?????????????????????????????? :grr:

This whole thing gives me MAJOR creeps. I am Christian, but I feel like these people are reading a different Bible than I am.

[demo dutch]

338. It seems to me You WOUDN'T WANT TO BELONG to that kind of a church!

so those member are better off. But that said, it's obvious that this particular church is deeply involved into politics, and thus should be investigated and loose it's tax exampt status.
What official body investigates "Discrimination" inside a religious order?

[seabeyond]

361. of course they are better off, that is not the point n/t

[fudge stripe cookays]

340. Demonstrations anyone?

Here's a perfect opportunity for NC folks to round up bunches of friends (from all over the country, if anyone can make the trip)

and stand outside their church with signs branding them bigots, hatemongers, and Pharisees.

Anyone up for it? I'm afraid I'm a little far away, but I'd love to see huge crowds there-- more than the number of parishioners.
FSC

[chomskysright]

482. I'M UP FOR IT & I'M IN ASHEVILLE: contact me backchannel plz

[blondeatlast]

345. Thread continued here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3606871

This one's getting pretty long.

[Kazak]

347. Is there a proper link yet?

I'd love to spread this little hot potato around.

[blondeatlast]

348. Check out the home page. Skinner posted a couple there,

but they can't be found in this thread.

Let's mind other's bandwidth--I think Skinner's link is probably the best one to use.

[brainshrub]

349. This is not good, but it's a church. They can exclude anyone they want.

This is why it's so critical that church and state stay separated.

[mmonk]

356. Exactly and the same people

are pushing judges and laws which will be in violation of the constitution. At some point, the REAL patriots are going to have to stand up.

[blondeatlast]

367. Explain, in detail, how this ISN'T a political act?

They didn't expel these people for an expressed belief in abortion or gay rights--they expelled them for their POLITICAL party affiliation.

If they expelled them for the former--no problem, whether I like it or not. For the latter--bye, bye tax-exempt status.

[ElaineinIN]

495. Its not just any political act

But its intervention in a political campaign, so its crucial to find out exactly what he said and how he said it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

428. They CANNOT demand you to vote a certain way and remain tax exempt

so this is a violation of IRS code.

IRS requirements allow them to talk about ISSUES not politics

[Pacifist Patriot]

445. Yes and No.

Anyone can be asked to leave a congregation, but when it is predicated on how you voted in an election than the clergy and the church has crossed a very important line. Excommunications based on political affiliation should result in immediate revokation of tax-exempt status as a religious organization. Given the statutes I really don't see anyway around that other than turning a blind eye. Which at this time is probably the most likely course of action to be pursued. As a minister I am beyond disgusted.

[chomskysright]

519. AU: JOIN us: Americans United for Separation of Church and STate

[bullwinkle428]

355. And I'm proud to be a Humanistic Jew,

where at least I know I'm free!

(No apologies to Lee Greenwood)

[Bluzmann57]

550. Hey Bullwinkle, welcome to DU

from a fellow Iowan. And while I may not agree with the Jewish faith, I certainly respect your right to practice it. And at least you know you're free. Incidentally, my faith is tarnished, but I was raised as a Presbyterian, and a staunch Democrat. Never, ever did the church I attended throw anyone out because of political beliefs.

[melissinha]

366. Look at the station

You will find that WLOS is part of the Sinclair Broadcasting.... you won't find the story.....

Keep searching for this to leak in the corporate media.

Did you see that video???? Those are senior citizens... at least the gentleman who was interviewed was.... Some if not most of these people have probably always been Democrats or if not, had really debated on voting for *.... Nontheless I do hope that these indivuals will be welcomed into an alternate place to worship.

[bloom]

453. From the WLOS site:

Religion and Politics Clash
Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.

East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.


(posted at 7:30am, 5/6/05)

[mpendragon]

373. this is probably for the best

I think Jesus left that place a long time ago.

[brainshrub]

374. Shouldn't they be allowed to expel anyone they want?

If the cloud-being who establishes a church says that he doesn't want Klansman worshiping in HIS house, why would that a violation of the organizations tax-exempt status?

[atreides1]

414. Suggestion

Read the original message, it's obvious that you missed part of it.

According to the e-mail:

"She said that before the election, the preacher told the congregation form the pulpit that if they didn't vote for Bush they
had to come to the altar to confess their sins and repent. They couldn't be members."

The preacher used the pulpit for political reasons, and that is what needs to be investigated.

As for the membership of Klansmen, I don't really believe that some of these churches think that being in the Klan is a bad thing. I'll bet that Klansmen were probably leading members of a lot of churches in the South at one time.

Maybe you can enlighten the rest of us and tell us exactly what sin the people who were excommunicated committed?

[Norquist Nemesis]

416. Perhaps because Klansmen aren't nationally elected offices?

:shrug:
(oops! edit to correct to "aren't")

We've really gone over the top in giving up our rights as individuals in this country. How is it a free society when a church is within its rights to expel members based on their politics? How is it a free society when an employer can fire an employee based on the employee's political beliefs (except in 5 states, it's legal to do so)?

And it's not just pure politics. Pharmacists refusing to dispense legal medications to individuals based on the pharmacist's beliefs is now perfectly fine. People's cars getting keyed for a bumber sticker and being told by law enforcement that, essentially, they should have known better. Employers firing long-term employees for refusing to take a drug test for nicotine, not to mention refusing to even hire a smoker.

And all of this is just fine and dandy because "they have a right to do so."

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

429. Yes..they can't coerce their membership to vote for a politician

and remain tax exempt.

[racaulk]

376. Story on WLOS website

WLOS, the Asheville, NC ABC affiliate, finally has the story on their website, but it's incredibly brief and does not have a lot of details. How very typical of the MSM...

The link: http://www.wlos.com (Click "News" on the left and this is the first story on the list)

The text:

Religion and Politics Clash
Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.


East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.


(posted at 7:30am, 5/6/05)

[Selteri]

377. Pass this one on, it's a horrific nightmare. N/T

[nytemare]

378. Well, can someone say "tax free no more?"

What could have possessed them to do that???

This needs to get to the local tax offices and this would be a good story for Keith Olbermann!

[snowbird42]

381. Check this site to contact

http://www.main.nc.us/

this is an alternative progressive site in Asheville Good people to contact
I live near there is Tn and Im shocked

[chomskysright]

483. ITS ROLLING THUNDER REVIEW & folks

[chomskysright]

485. I contacted moderator

[Brooklyn Michael]

383. Holy Flurking Schnit!

I've got no other comment for this....

:wow:

[Pirate Smile]

388. I posted a new thread with a Diary from georgia10 at DailyKos which

has action items and ways to contact people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3607235

[jasmeel]

389. I left a message on their machine---LONG beep

I asked them if they felt at all hypocritical about supporting a president who kills innocent people abroad and tortures innocent men, women and children. I told them I hope the IRS gets a hold of this. I don't really know how to do that. Does anyone here know how one would file a complaint?

[big peaches]

390. Jesus wept.

n/t

[nytemare]

393. Springer is on it

Yay!

[seafan]

395. Jerry Springer just mentioned this on his program, 10:38 am ET, 5-6-05.

It's getting around now.

[Catherine Vincent]

417. Mike Malloy mentioned it on his show last night. So he was the first

to speak of it on AAR. (thanks to a DUer):-)

[seafan]

426. Great! Hope Franken, Shultz and Rhodes will address today.

We are the media now.

[americanstranger]

448. I sent it to Randi at about six this morning.

she probably saw it over her morning coffee.

-as

[Name removed]

397. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vogon_Glory]

406. Hope The Cast-Outs Took Their Tithes and Pledges With Them

I hope that the cast-out congregants of that church remember to take their tithes and pledges with them. A church of that sort doesn't deserve their financial support and any subsequent whining for money from that place's vestry to ostracized parishioners should be firmly rejected.

[oneold1-4u]

584. They should even SUE the CHURCH

For all the donations made to a false church, in both time and money!
"They've got to hurt a lot before they make any change!"
This goes for all wrongful anti-christian action churches and their philosophies, from the biggest to the smallest!

[atreides1]

407. My Take on This

My theory is that this is a test to see if the IRS will do its job and apply the law.

I believe that this minister was approached by the Xtian Taliban, and promised support to do what he did. This could be their way of
seeing if they truly do control the current administration, if one
little podunk church goes down, it's no big loss.

But if they get away with it, if the feds don't bother to even investigate then it will become an acceptable practice across the country. It will start with the conservative Baptists and then spread to every denomination that is already divided, creating a schism.

The first shot has been fired in the war, and we didn't do it. But we better be prepared to finish it, and to win.

[halobeam]

410. I have the same take on this...

My first thought is that the religous war is here within our country and you said it right, the first shot was fired.\

If this is allowed, it's begun.

[dogday]

408. 828-456-6842

They are not answering their phone,answering machine will not allow you to leave a message either. I will keep calling till I get thru to ask them if this is true. If it is, God help us all.....

[sinkingfeeling]

409. As soon as we can locate this in print, I will report the violation to

Americans United for Separation of Church and State. They will file a complaint to the IRS.


http://www.au.org/site/Survey?SURVEY_ID=1120&ACTION_REQUIRED=URI_ACTION_USER_REQUESTS

[sinkingfeeling]

413. I sent this to Americans United for Separation of Church and State,

but it would probably be better if someon from NC would also report it.

[chomskysright]

487. MY GROUP: in ASHEVILLE: they're on it: lead contact person:

Phillip: 828 699 5521

[Sequoia]

411. Jesus H. Christ!! That's my state

and Waynesville was next to Asheville and Brevard. I can't believe it. North Carolina! How dreadful, just dreadful. I'm sorry.

[paparush]

412. I live an hour from Asheville...

Parts of Asheville are very liberal (lots of crystal clutching colon cleansers, mainly in the downtown, Pack Square part of town) but the rest of Ashveille is your typical southern, redneck, NASCAR, Baptist Bible Thumpers. Waynesville, a little farther west, is a very conservative little town.

[chomskysright]

490. Paprush: am trying to contact you re: protest this Sunday

my cell: 404 964 5338; I'm in Asheville

[Yellow_Dog]

415. Local print media is mum?

Well apparently it is now clear where the printed media stand on the topic of religion and politics, they endorse it.

There is not a single mention of this story (in paper or website) in the Asheville Citizen Times which is less than 30 miles east of Waynesville, nor is there mention in the local Waynesville paper's website The Mountaineer

[Norquist Nemesis]

418. Welcome Yellow Dog!

:hi:

I think you're observation is likely spot on.

[libnnc]

419. The Mountaineer's website is notoriously slow

to post updated stories. The paper is a non-daily only published on Mon Wed and Fri.

The Citizen-Times ought to have something...

[Catherine Vincent]

463. Could it be that they don't really care?

They are probably Bush supporters so it doesn't really concern them. Of course, if this was a church that expelled republican voters because they voted Bush, then it would more than likely become urgent breaking news.

[libnnc]

475. I KNOW the local fish wrap doesn't care

And it would be interesting to find out if the Waynesville 9 went to the wannbe journalists at ye olde Mountaineer first and were ignored...I know (too much) about some of the people who work for that paper. It's a mixture of fresh outta college numbskulls and an overzealous stepford wife-esque editorial staff. The paper is owned by a republican too.

Nope, their silence doesn't surprise me one little bit.

[RedstDem]

422. Where Am I Going ?

& Why Am I In This Handbasket

Sorry Of Making Light Of Something As Seriously Wrong As This, But It's Too Far Over The Top For Me To Get My Brain Around...

Simply Unbelievable.

[Robworld]

424. WOW! I really dont know what to say about this...

Except yikes!

http://www.dumdumgoestothecircus.com/

[Junkdrawer]

425. So far, Google News "East Waynesville Baptist Church" = 0 hits...

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=%22East+Waynesville+Baptist+Church%22&btnG=Search+News

I guess it's not news worthy? :shrug:

[The_Casual_Observer]

433. A shit place like that didn't have any dems anyway.

Who are they kidding?

[BurtWorm]

434. It's very reminiscent of the "period of the witches"

before the 1800 election, when the "French faction" (Jefferson, Madison, Franklin) and the "British faction" (Adams, Hamilton, Washington) were divided to the point of violence. It's also something like Sarajevo before all hell broke out.

[dbonds]

435. Why do I feel the need to buy a couple weapons (defensive of course)

[ronnykmarshall]

437. Remove their tax exempt status.

That's not a church, it's a politcal group.

[chomskysright]

440. GREAT! I work in WAYNESVILLE, NC and I will be addressing this:

1. loss of tax exempt status
2. picket signs

I'm gonna groOV on this.

[frankly_fedup2]

441. I live in VA near the NC Border and I'm trying to figure out how far this

would be from where I live. I cannot drive and I doubt my husband would take me (he hates politics, doesn't vote, and doesn't want me to talk about anything political . . . unless it has to do with his guns).

Anyway, I'm going to contact my local Democratic Party. In VA you do not have to register what party you are affiliated with when you register. I'm going to contact them, give them the number, and see what they want to do.

This could be one of the many things that are going to lead into another crusade; however, I think this country is going to be split with a civil war and if it is, I'm moving North. I live in a red state but I do not hide from anyone that I am a Democrat. My bumper stickers alone prove that. I do get dirty looks though. It's so funny. I'm going to start making some really insulting ones now.

I cannot believe this!!!!

[Xenotime]

446. I knew it!

That's the right trying to twist everybody's arm. When will it end?

[nashville_brook]

458. put it up my blog with links and Tax Guide

johnson city is right across the border from Waynesville and we all know people up that way.

can't wait to see if anyone comments!

[DirtyDawg]

459. I think it's a good thing...

...for these nuts to 'self-identify' themselves. It'll make it easier when the time comes for us to make them pay the price for all the evils they have done to the country. This way we won't have to sort through the good guys from the bad guys. Eliminating their tax exempt status is just the start of it...certainly no more deductions for contributions (I'm still wondering when the 'flat taxers' are going to reveal their plan for charitable giving with the new sales only tax)...Shoot, let's just go straight to turning over all church buildings and properties to the state for homeless shelters and health care for the aged...yeah, that ought to make a nice 'down payment' for all the crap they're foisting off on the rest of us.

[melissinha]

465. Gaynesville DUers

chomskysright and others...

If you have a chance to speak with the individuals who were expelled, please extend the heartfelt sympathy of fellow Democrats and sincerest hopes that they find a welcoming church to worship in this Sunday. We're behind them.

[NightOwwl]

468. Gee, they aren't answering their phone or taking voice messages.

That's OK. Their message confirmed they are East Waynesville Baptist Church...wanted to make sure before I reported to the IRS (which I am doing right now.)

[paineinthearse]

470. Screw you, Olberman!!!!

Received by email.


"Yesterday, on the National Day of Prayer, we learned that the East
Waynesville Baptist Church in North Carolina essentially kicked out its
Democratic members. Nine members were "excommunicated" and 40 other
members of the 405 member church resigned in protest." (Daily KOS
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/6/84353/67437

:wtf:

Why is KO citing KOS, this story broke HERE!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=104&topic_id=3604552&mesg_id=3604552

[paineinthearse]

480. My email to KO

As a regular contributor to DU and member of that community, I feel affronted that you would credit dKOS as the source of your lead story:

"Yesterday, on the National Day of Prayer, we learned that the East
Waynesville Baptist Church in North Carolina essentially kicked out its Democratic members. Nine members were "excommunicated" and 40 other members of the 405 member church resigned in protest." (Daily KOS http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/6/84353/67437

If you and your staffers took a few seconds to research the source of the story, you would have found it was from DU. KOS' "georgia10" got it right:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/6/84353/67437

Democratic Church Purge Part II: Action
by georgia10
Fri May 6th, 2005 at 05:43:53 PDT

Fresh Thread & Action Items. Please, stop by the original thread here. Lots of great comments there.
Yesterday, on the National Day of Prayer, we learned that the East Waynesville Baptist Church in North Carolina essentially kicked out its Democratic members. Nine members were "excommunicated" and 40 other members of the 405 member church resigned in protest.

From libnnc over at DU:

"One of the local women who got excommunicated said on TV that it was like a cult. Another man who got excommunicated said that the rest of the congregation stood up and applauded as the Democrats were told to leave."

Here is the initial DU post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3604552&mesg_id=3604552

libnnc (430 posts) Thu May-05-05 07:42 PM
Original message
East Waynesville Baptist Church in NC expells all Dem members

My Mom just emailed me the news. There's no link yet.

She said WLOS tv just broke in to report that the East Waynesville Baptist church has officially excommunicated all its democratic members.

She said that before the election, the preacher told the congregation from the pulpit that if they didn't vote for * they had to come to the altar to confess their sins and repent. they could'nt be members. (My Mom doesn't attend that church--she's United Methodist, but I know of lots who do attend).

From Mom's email: "One of the local women who got excommunicated said on TV that it was like a cult. Another man who got excommunicated said that the rest of the congregation stood up and applauded as the Democrats were told to leave."

Okay, I'm officially freaked out.

libnnc

Note that DU uses eastern time, KOS pacific. So you can see it was posted to DU before KOS.

When you do the story tonight, please get the source correct: a WLOS viewer emailed it to her daughter who posted it to DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, where it was picked up by dKOS and finally MSNBC.

[Spiffarino]

536. Whoa there, big feller!

Keith got it wrong, but he's still one of the good guys. It's a wonder we have one who quotes dKos, let alone DU!

:D

[sharman]

566. Yeah, personally

I thought Georgia10 could have given you much more credit than she did. I watched it all unfold last night, then this evening to read on DailyKos those guys taking (virtually) all the credit for reporting it, even for thinking of sending it to Olbermann.

Credit back in the other direction, DailyKos has such a readership and established credibility that I'm not surprised Olbermann would pick up a story from that source a lot more quickly than from DU.

But I do think the DailyKossers should take a minute from patting themselves on the back to acknowledge this all started here.

[Name removed]

471. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raksha]

493. They are trying to turn this country into Northern Ireland...

...and I have to admit, doing a damn good job so far. I don't know about "reaching out to the GOP cults," though. I don't think they CAN be reached. What we need to do is spread the word to our fellow citizens who are NOT cultists but who may not be aware how far it's gone.

[paineinthearse]

496. Not conservative, fundamentalist

I believe there is a difference. True conservative republicans, like Pat Buchannan and the party of Rockefellar and Nixon, have been pushed out of the party like these Dems were from the fundy church.

We can work with conservatives, we cannot work with fundies.

[Name removed]

516. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[myrna minx]

472. I am so freaked out.

What has happened to our country? :cry:

[chaska]

477. Someone start a new thread on this telling us what we're doing to organize

in response to this. This thread has gotten to big for newcomers to digest. This deserves national attention and a forceful response from us. Can we revoke this preacher's tax exempt status? Discuss these things in a new thread.

[paineinthearse]

481. There already is

I saw one about a Southern Baptist convention in Frist's hometown. Anyone have the link?

[LordLQQK]

479. I have a thought for you to ponder....

I haven't read all the way through this massive posting so this may have been covered already. BUT, consider this: If the line between church and state is going to be smeared, blurred, erased...then wouldn’t it be fair to levy taxes on ALL church holdings, including property, estates, income, luxuries, etc… Let’s see how quickly they turn around a cry. I don’t think most religions (especially the Catholics) would darn mention even the burning “Bush” for fear of having to fork over tax money.

Do the same thing that they should be doing to the drug issue. TAX THEM!!!!! TAX THESE FUCKERS INTO THE GROUND.

Do you realize that with the money raised from the taxation of churches and drugs that this country would be lifted so high out of debt that every person in this country would be able to kiss income tax good bye AND have a free (tax provided at least) doctorates degree?

“Seems to me that the best way to hurt people with money is to take it away from them”

[AngryOldDem]

489. Been saying that

since religious groups decided to inflict themselves so heavily into the last election. They can't have it both ways. If they want to play politics, then they have to pay for the privilege.

[insane_cratic_gal]

488. Err Dunno but CNN just gave

a blurb on this so a lil MSM or CSM:Corporate Stream media.

Shocked they covered it at all, the dubed it Republican or Repent, which made me walk back into the room for once and pay attention

[Sandpiper]

499. As a former Western North Carolina resident I can tell you

That Waynesville is f**k your cousin country.

This doesn't surprise me at all.

[seafan]

500. Ed Shultz is on this now, 3pm ET, 5-6-05 AAR/Jones Radio Network

n/t

[seafan]

515. Ed's interview with "Selma", older female member of the church:

She says that the ousted members now have an attorney and are working on firing this pastor Chandler. She says they want their church back.

Selma says the pastor has been there about 2.5 years and that the church has tapes of his sermons/proclamations that he wanted his church to be a "political church", and that any member who did not agree could leave. Selma said that Chandler actively spoke about his politics and intentions toward the Democratic members in Sunday services.

Selma said that the pastor has been actively recruiting new young adult/children members, and has been intensively trying to turn them onto his point of view. And that he was making it his business to rid the church of the older members.

Selma says that all this intimidation started about 6 months ago, before the election.

She sounds determined that they will do whatever is necessary to remove Chandler. They will meet with their attorney on Monday.

[chomskysright]

521. helpful post: I sent it to reporter develop. story at Charlotte Observer:

any other info, here 's that reporter: Christin Collins: 919 829 4881

[bullwinkle428]

501. Can you say "Blowback"? I thought you could!

I was just visiting the political folder of another site I visit frequently, and one of the handful of liberal posters started a thread with a link to this story, and right away, two of the most prolific right-wing posters at this site called the pastor a moron and an idiot, and said they can pretty much kiss their tax-exempt status goodbye. They are over-reaching big time, and I just can't wait until it all blows up in their faces.

[lala_rawraw]

503. First they came for the ... n/t

[UrbScotty]

505. "LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU."

Right?

[fudge stripe cookays]

507. My next question is.....

how did they find out that these people are Democrats?

What types of privacy rules are being broken here? Do they have members who are voter registrars and informed on them? What exactly did they do? Did they confront the people head on saying they KNEW they were Democrats and that they had to quit?

Or did the ask the congregation who they voted for, and anyone raising their hand for Kerry was singled out and rounded up?

We should be hammering this home. This is not just a separation of church and state issue. It could be a privacy issue.

FSC

[Yellow_Dog]

518. detecting democrats

In NC you can go on-line to the board of elections and fine out a voter's party affiliation, and the elections in which they have actually voted. It also lists their age!

[fudge stripe cookays]

526. Geez.

That blows.

Thanks for the info Yellow_Dog.
FSC

[Yellow_Dog]

533. but handy

got tired of a blow hard raging about anything and everything, so I looked him up, he wasn't even registered to vote, so I told him since he didn't vote he could just STFU, which he did!

[deacon2]

511. So it begins

How long until we are required to wear Pink Ds on our overcoats? Every day we move a little closer to this reality. Elected officials advocating violence against judges. "Faith-based" dispensing of tax money exclusively to Christian organizations - 400 million dollars and rising. Hate fests like the one Frist attended in Louisville. Banning gay sperm donors, making them "undesirable." Breaking up gay families, removing their children, denying them equal protection, making them "undesirable" as well. Contravening the Constitution openly now by attempting to remove the filibuster and more easily install their radical pals on the highest courts. Smoothing the way for the more outrageous acts to follow. Inflaming the ignorant and superstitious, raising their intolerance. Preaching that Jesus demands this "separation," that he somehow condones the violence. Even the Vatican weighs in - A new pope who interferred in our electoral process, condeming those who would vote for John Kerry. Did you even think this was possible two years ago? Howard Ahmanson and a cast of other theocratic and neocon criminals running the "electoral process" in a manner that would have made Uncle Joe Stalin proud. How swiftly they are moving now, taking us down this dark path in our history. And if history tells us anything, the final destination is certain as well: the train, the camp, then the garrote.

I've got The Dread in a big way these days. How about you?

[VOX]

512. Don't wanna hear "Edwards couldn't even win his home state" ever again.

It was too much of this kind of right-wing crackpot crap that kept Edwards from punching through in NC and the South. :grr:

[JoshG]

520. Need contact info for booted congregants ASAP

update: i got the info, thanks everyone

[melissinha]

525. REPOST UPDATE: Ed's interview with "Selma" member of the church

Just reposting seafan's update so its fresh...

seafan (526 posts) Fri May-06-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #500

515. Ed's interview with "Selma", older female member of the church:


She says that the ousted members now have an attorney and are working on firing this pastor Chandler. She says they want their church back.

Selma says the pastor has been there about 2.5 years and that the church has tapes of his sermons/proclamations that he wanted his church to be a "political church", and that any member who did not agree could leave. Selma said that Chandler actively spoke about his politics and intentions toward the Democratic members in Sunday services.

Selma said that the pastor has been actively recruiting new young adult/children members, and has been intensively trying to turn them onto his point of view. And that he was making it his business to rid the church of the older members.

Selma says that all this intimidation started about 6 months ago, before the election.

She sounds determined that they will do whatever is necessary to remove Chandler. They will meet with their attorney on Monday.


I am SO GLAD to hear that the ousted members are fighting back.... its their church just as much as its anyone else's. BRAVO

[andimini]

530. seeking interviews for book project

Hi,

Does anyone have contact info for "Selma," or the other ousted members of the church? Libnnc, you said your mom knew several of the members? I am a freelance journalist working on a book about Christian faith and politics in the South and I would love to talk to them.

Email me at [email protected].

Thank you!

Tess

[Democracy White]

527. What's next? Enslaving all liberals?

Rounding up all of the liberals and Democrats in this country to enslave them? I wouldn't be surprised to wake up and find myself on a truck to some unknown camp where I will be sold to some uppity, rich Repuplican couple and or family. Afet all they do believe that the Bible warrants such acts.

Dee

[ContraBass Black]

528. Posting to my blog.

I'm going to shout this one from the rooftops.

[Yellow_Dog]

531. WLOS 5:00 PM 5/6/05 Lead Off Story!

WLOS TV, Asheville just used this story as their lead off story at 5:00 PM, along with recorded sermon from Chandler, with promise of more coverage in their 6:00 PM edition.

One statement I guess they use to 'bait' viewers to stay tuned, is that "does this place their tax exempt status in jepordy" I sure as hell hope so!

It is also starting to spread through other media, at least southeast area.

And yet the Asheville NC newspaper has yet to mention this story AT ALL. The paper is the Asheville Citizen-Times, but perhaps should be renamed to the Asheville Republician Times. But this is no suprise, the story of the last 3 US Soldiers to die in Iraq was relegated a 3" column on page 4, and could not be found on their website at all.

[chomskysright]

534. remember; Citizen Times is Gannett paper but I have fed to editor...

that I know there. I have built up some contacts there. If you hear of something let me know. Charlotte Observer reporter called me this afternoon after I spewed the internet with this:


Jesus has left the building....and they were clapping as they drove him out:
TV link is here: http://www.spiffarino.completelyfreehosting.com/images/wlos.wmv


http://www.wlos.com /

"Religion and Politics Clash
Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.


East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out."



on Sinclair station today: 5.6.05:
found via main lead thread at: www.democraticunderground.com; specific thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3604552

Its also been posted at DailyKos: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/5/211218/4946
Its also on at Live Journal Link: http://www.livejournal.com/community/anti_bush/541664.html




What I've done:

1. contacted Asheville Citizen Times: you could ask for coverage also
2. interfaced with Western NC group: Separation of Church and STate: http://churchandstate.meetup.com/boards/ ---national site
3. have been a member of Asheville chapter Separation of Church and State for a few weeks which has a former Baptist minister as its leader, Phillip (cc'd here): http://churchandstate.meetup.com/11/members/
4. am going to church on Sunday wearing my 'buck bush in the 21st century't-shirt
5. have filed with the IRS to have their tax exempt status investigated (others on DU have done the same): http://www.irs.gov/help/page/0,,id=13148,00.html
6. contacted Western NC ACLU: [email protected]
7. A DU'er e mailed Keith Olbermann on MSNBC Countdown



THINGS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT:

1. Heritage Foundation will get its hands on this even if pastor acted by himself so be prepared for that (another reason to pull ACLU in):
2. 60 Minutes should be informed: AU (Americans United Against Church and State would be ones to get this cranked perhaps): [email protected]
3. CNN COMMENT LINE: 404 827 1500
WLOS Contact info:

http://www.wlos.com /

First Broadcast: September 18, 1954
Owner: Sinclair Broadcast Group
Network Affiliation: ABC
Transmitter: Mount Pisgah
Tower Height: 6,089 Above sea level
Studios: 110 Technology Drive
Asheville, NC 28803

Phone Numbers: 828-684-1340
800-288-8813
News Hotline: [phone]
News Email: [email protected]
Fax Numbers: Administration: 828-651-4612
Business: 828-651-4601
Engineering: 828-651-4516
News: 828-651-4618
Programming: 828-651-4597
Promotions: 828-651-4601
Sales/Traffic: 828-651-4619
HR Director: 828-681-5223

South Carolina Offices: 100 Verdae Blvd.
Suite 410
Greenville, SC 29607
Fax: [phone]

Rutherford Co. News Bureau Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Haywood Co. News Bureau Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

General Manager: Jack Connors
News Director: Tom Loebig

[chomskysright]

535. am now wondering a bit about Americans United for Separ of church and Stat

got this suspicious e mail today from Asheville AU chapter person:

CAN ANYONE TURN UP INFO RE: AU??

M-----

'I am not that interested in a big public display; technically this is an internal church matter and there is not much to be done just now. I want to use it to pursue a forum or some other event for public awareness and education in the near future.

[melissinha]

539. Perhaps...

Sounds like this person at the AU has a specific strategy with respect to events like these, wouldn't necessarily consider it suspicious yet. As they are more experienced in cases like these, this is likely.

BUT, considering the statements of "Selma" in the Ed Schultz interview, this isn't just some random event on the part of Chan Chandler... sounds like he's had this campaign for months.... There certainly is a case for this considering the fact that he tapes his sermons!!!


Since it seems that the ousted members are attempting to resolve this legally, I doubt this is purely political for them like it is for us. Keep in mind that these poor people want to return to and restore their church.

[Yellow_Dog]

545. Now the Asheville Citizen Times carries story

Sometime between 5 PM and 7 PM the story has appeared (at least on the web page) of the Asheville Citizen Times, this after local TV has carried the story for the second day in a row.

[snowbear]

537. When I called the church number...

It was busiest for the longest time.. Finally, I was able to get through to the message machine.. (what a strange message they have)..

Anyway, I think the machine may be overloaded? :shrug: It doesn't seem to work after the message ends..

Anyone else have problems with the message machine?

[Fluffdaddy]

538. Hopes this hits the Big Media

[LanternWaste]

540. This Fundy thinks this stinks

Ranted about this in an e-mail to my Fundy (and political liberal) friends (yes... there are more of us than you think...)

This is some seriously insane up stuff. A church pastor in Waynesboro, NC (outside Asheville) told his congregation that if they didn't vote for Bush in the last election, they would have the choice to either repent their sin or be asked to leave the church. Over 40 members walked out in protest.

So, according to this "church", because I voted Demo in the last election, I'm going to hell.
Sorry fellas, this church ain't in no way indicative of the church I belong to (or any church I'd want to belong to).

The churches you never hear anything about, the ones that are involved in Meals-On-Wheels, cleaning up local parks, charity drives for hospitals, missionary work to central America and Africa... these are the guys that are doing Works and Faith. They stay quiet and never advertise their work. Don't expect them to be on the local news, because they don't *want* to be the topic of discussion at the morning water cooler. Quietly doing God's work without fanfare or presumption or expectation of fame.

On the other hand, there are *some* churches that love to be on the news. That love to illustrate themselves and the divisive schisms they originate and support. Mega-churches, four broadcasts a week and a radio show to follow, buy our CD for only $50.99 and God will love you more. A pastor living in a mansion with three BMW's, a wife and three girlfriends. Vote for our guy or go to hell.

Don't be hard on the media for reporting these guys and not the "quiet" ones... one begs for attention and the other shuns it-- I ask you, which church is following more closely the commandments of God?

[Yellow_Dog]

543. make the waynesVILLE...

Waynesboro is a different town

[LanternWaste]

546. Rats...

My mistake... make digital maps at work and have been working on Waynesboro all week long (and probably all next week, too...)

Thanks for the correction. Updated the e-mail to my pals, but at least I had the vid link right... :)

[fudge stripe cookays]

554. Talk to your pastor....

get him to talk to other pastors.

They need to get up and make a concerted group statement that this does not represent them. We have GOT to get this heard.

People have got to realize what is happening, even if we have to shove it down their throats to make them wake up.

FSC

[BrightKnight]

544. Can't pass an elephant through the eye of a needle - n/t

[EVDebs]

547. So how does 'preacher' know who voted for who ? LOL

It isn't called a 'secret ballot' for nuthin.

40% of eligible voters didn't even bother to vote according to MSM and those are the real 'sinners' ! In Australia you're required by law to vote on election day.

[Susanelle]

548. Help! This is where I live!

  This is the mind set for many people who live in Western NC.
Yes, there are many liberals in the Asheville NC area, but in
most of WNC, liberal democrats who are not religious are
almost made to feel like a disease! It's nice to see our area
make some headlines. What I would like to see is events like
this waking people up to the need to do something about this
frightening way of thinking & living. Even local
Republicans have been shocked & disgusted by this story.
(Incidently WLOS, the only local ABC affiliate is owned by
Sinclair broacasting & usually sides on the right wing
side of things.)  What's next, dragging Democrats out of our
houses & stoning us to death in the town square???

[ms liberty]

551. I live about 2 hrs from Asheville...in one of those really red counties...

This isn't that surprising, there's a church in my county (Alexander) with a sign posted above the doors telling women they're not welcome if they are wearing pants. I've got a snake-handling church right up the road, and several years ago my little county made the national news when a local pastor and congregation tried to raise from the dead a teenage boy that had died in a car wreck. They refused to have him autopsied or embalmed, and they took him from the hospital to their church and had his body up and were dancing with him. This is the kind of people we're dealing with here.

The story has been playing all afternoon on CNN, with the interviews. I hope it keeps building. This will really turn off a lot of people.

[texanwitch]

567. They were dancing with this poor dead kid's body, how sick.

How long did this go on, without the body being embalmed.

I have a friend who's family ran a funeral home, so I have a little knowledge, the body had to be gruesome.

[ms liberty]

589. I'm thinking they kept him for about 3 days...

I distinctly remember telling my husband something like "well he's probably getting a little ripe now, don't you think?" You couldn't not pay attention to it, but my husband had once dated a relative of the dead guy (and broke up over their fundamentalist views). The grapevine had it that they got the tires he'd wanted on his pickup and put him in the back in a rocking chair and rode him around town, too. These people are just freaky...if we let them take control they'll have us all tattooed and microchips implanted so they can keep track of us until they burn us at the stake.

[mark wayne]

552. The American Taliban strikes again. A sad day for Christians.

The "cult of personality" is getting more emboldened.

[bush_is_wacko]

553. Freaked out? I'm pissed as hell!

It is time America realize that when you give a church GOVERNMENT favors, they BECOME an extension of the frigging government. I have NOTHING against religion. I AM A CATHOLIC. My church has NO NEED for government funding or tax breaks. They have PLENTY of money. Millions of Catholics GIVE them money every Sunday. I have a 4000 member Evangelical church about 5 miles from my home. They own SEVERAL city blocks of property, they receive rental funds, they run a private school that generates funds AND that is only ONE of their campuses. That church was founded by the most crooked car dealer turned real estate developer in the state of Colorado. He OBVIOUSLY heard the saying if you want to make money CREATE a religion because he is making money hand over fist and his "church" is turning out zealots by the thousands who will stop at NOTHING to kick the rest of us Christians the hell out of dodge!

Face it people....this is a "holy war." It is every bit as much of a "holy war" as the crusades were. We are heretics to these people because we won't sign on to their religious views. That is exactly what the crusades were all about.

:grr:

[Democracy White]

555. Just contacted my local news affiliate

I have no idea if they are Republican based or Democratic but I referred the man who answered the phone to this site. Hopefully WZZM 13 here in Grand Rapids will give at least a blurb on it.

Dee

[chomskysright]

558. ELECTIONEERING BILL FOR CHURCHES PROPOSED: BREAKING

And as one DU'er speculated: there's something behind this. Here it is: HB 235: would allow clergy to endorse candidates and retain 501c3:

http://www.au.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr003=2u49khpxv3.app5b&abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=7353&security=1002&news_iv_ctrl=1241

Here is e mail for Jones:

http://jones.house.gov/html/contact_form_email.cfm

other contact info:

Washington DC Office:
Congressman Walter Jones
422 Cannon House Office Building
Washington DC 20515
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Church Split In North Carolina Shows Dangers Of Partisan Politics In Pulpit, Says Americans United
Friday, May 6, 2005
Church Electioneering Bill In Congress Would Invite More Disputes Over Politics In Houses Of Worship, Says AU's Lynn

A bitter controversy over partisan politics at a North Carolina church shows the danger of electioneering in the pulpit, according to Americans United of Separation of Church and State.
According to news media reports, the Rev. Chan Chandler of East Waynesville Baptist Church in Haywood County told members that they must vote for President George W. Bush. Nine members who did not do so have since been told to leave the congregation. An additional 40 members have reportedly left in protest.
“This is an outrage,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. “Houses of worship exist to bring people together for worship, not split them apart over partisan politics.
“I think there is an important lesson here for the whole country,” Lynn continued. “Americans do not expect to be ordered to vote for certain candidates by their religious leaders.”
Religious Right groups have been pressing evangelical churches to get deeply involved in partisan politics, Lynn said, and this kind of controversy is the natural outcome.
Lynn said matters will become even worse if a bill now pending in Congress becomes federal law.
H.R. 235, a measure introduced by Rep. Walter Jones (R-N.C.), would allow clergy to endorse candidates from the pulpit and still retain a tax exemption of their house of worship.
“Introducing partisan politics into our churches is a terrible idea,” said AU’s Lynn. “I hope this incident in North Carolina will cause our members of Congress to reject Rep. Jones’ bill.”

[ms liberty]

562. This needs it's own thread ASAP....

If we're to get any traction from the Waynesville church fiasco now would be the time to strike, no?

[chomskysright]

564. I started its thread: it disappeared: u want to try again?

[indy_azcat]

559. Detroit Fox 2 News

To brodacast a segment at 11PM.

Attaboy MSM.
:popcorn:

[Yellow_Dog]

565. The word is spreading

google news search came up with over 80 TV and newspaper sites with the story, including ABC NEWS and Gardian Unlimited in the UK.

[jah713]

560. I have some info on the pastor

Pastor Chan Chandler
Home # [phone]
I edited out his address. I don't want to be responsible for that.

[emanymton]

576. It Would Be Better To Give Mailing Address INSTEAD Of Phone Number!

[B Calm]

561. I'm praying this church's will lose it's tax-free status and be forced

to pay back taxes owed!

[mikedevilsfan]

563. I am glad to see some solidarity here

It's nice to see people as outraged as I am about this.
I am so sick of evangelical churches equating money loving, corporate hugging, earth destroying, poor pissing, elderly tossing..... with salvation.

Fight back!
Michael

[AuntiBush]

568. We NEED to DEMAND "NO MORE TAX-EXEMPT" for Political

abusiveness, yes abusive churchs, their predjudical, hate-filled preachers and hateful, spiteful congregations. They are the disgrace, not those made to leave! They left their senses at their holier-then-all, hypocritical altar! How dare they!

AND

I am SICK of (call them like they really are) CULTS, masquerading behind God and religion for their real agenda - yeah, faith-based on big tax breaks; receiving tax-exempt favors from $$ support from local/state and congressional leaderships that are shredding our country apart.

What am I saying... they already have!

:rant:

[UCSBLiberalCat53]

572. Theocracy

Sorry, but if this isn't politically motivated, I don't know what is. The preacher is claiming that Bush is God's Chosen One and if THAT'S not politics, then there's no separation of church and state. What's up with this "VOTE BUSH OR GO TO HELL!" rhetoric from the right? Arrogant fucks. You should HOPE God is on your side, because if you believe in HIM, you believe that you don't know his omnipotent mind.

What next? Are they going to burn liberals at the stake for being heretics? We're already on our way back to a pre-Enlightenment age anyway so why not? Perhaps they'll poke holes in our heads to let those librul demons out as that can be the only reason we're liberals, because we're mad. Theocracy, you just watch it. They'll slowly undermine democracy and soon it'll be that only the right Christians will get the right to vote. Perhaps if I spoke a few years ago, I would be exaggerating, but these so called Christians are insane.

[Gregorian]

573. Jesus actually committed suicide.

And he was really a conservative.

The irony is more than a little frightening. I wonder if any of these people really know what Jesus was all about. Is everyone asleep? Braindead? Exclusion is the antithesis of what it is all about. Exclusion is voluntary, and on the part of the follower. Not the other way around. It's not a club. Jesus didn't have a bouncer, a doorman, a dress code. And there was no secret handshake. What else can one say? It was simple. It was love. And it still is.

I think that Bush bribed pastors all over this country. And they preached to their little flocks. And instead of actually reading what Jesus SAID, they believe what they are being told. But what they are being told, is hate.

Now we can follow them, and hate. Or we can do the right thing. It's difficult to not hate these people. My advice is to read the bible, and see what Jesus said, and to watch The Daily Show. Did anyone see how he handled Tom Ridge. That took guts. I wanted to slap the fucker. But he was civil.

Time for bed, world. I hope you are still there in the morning. Don't self destruct.

[SouthernDem2004]

575. I owe libnnc an apology:

I thought this story was bogus. Who would have thought a Church was this intolerant.

[derby378]

577. As nutty as the fundies are getting? This is all too real

ginbarn is convinced that someone like Heritage Foundation has been goading Chandler into this - he's only been pastor for two years, so she thinks he may be a plant.

The idea is to force a showdown in the Court of Appeals and the SCOTUS so that one of two things happens; either the court rules it legal to disfellowship members who belong to a political party different from the pastors, or the Religious Reich gets a new slate of judges to rail against in Justice Sunday II: The Reckoning.

[andimini]

579. Libnnc, are you still there?

I am a freelance journalist working on a book about Christianity and the South, planning to be in East Waynesville Sunday morning to cover the developing fracas... I am trying to interview some of the folks involved in this story, and would love to get "background" from you or your mom. Call me on my cell at 704.907.9633 if you are interested.

Thanks again for posting this!

Tess

[email protected]

[tom_paine]

582. The non-race-based Nazification of Amerika has only just begun...

These are in fact, the Good Old Days, and we stand on the threshold of a darkness not seen since 1933.

Prepare yourself with that knowledge in mind. What will YOU do when Crunch Time comes, and a severe economic depression or widescale NBC "Terrorist" Attack will hasten that day immeasurebly, bringing forward the non-race-based Nazification by deacdes maybe.

But it has only just begun.

[ianrs]

583. speechless

but this cheered me up:
"He told WLOS-TV in Asheville that the actions were not politically motivated."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-05-07-church-politics_x.htm
ok, so it's usa today, but it's still a hell of a quote...

[snowbear]

585. iarns,

And you actually believed that quote??? :eyes:

[ianrs]

605. larissa

no, I didn't believe it, but by the god I don't believe in, it still made me laugh...one of those 'if it isn't true it ought to be' things, I suppose.

[lala_rawraw]

586. I need a link please

[libnnc]

587. its all over everywhere by now but here's the

Asheville Citizen-Time story

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050507/NEWS01/50506036/1001

fish through this thread and you'll see the actual video of the first broadcast on WLOS tv.

libnnc

[chomskysright]

590. we're 'cookin w/ gas now': see u @church, E. Waynesville Bapt church:

bright and early. I'll be the one with the 'BUCK BUSH in the 21st century' t-shirt.

writer of book, Southern Cross, from Charlotte, will be there also.

BRING ON THE MEDIA.

[Hubert Flottz]

591. Well for Heaven's Snakes!

"I believe"............I'd have said, PUT ME OUT A$$hole! I'll bet the good Preacher sent the collection plate around, before he ran the democrats off!

God ain't gonna' like that turn of events in NC, from what I've read! Now mind you, I'm not one who has devoted my entire life to reading the Bible, but I have seen a few Bibles layin' around! From what I can gather, the scripture states that man should NEVER JUDGE man! Man JUDGING other men, from what I can understand, is like man doing God's work, or something like man PLAYING GOD! I'd say also that if the Baptist church backs that fool up in this thing in NC, that the church will soon be paying it's fair share of the huge bills that Bush is now running up for our children's children, with his tax cuts for the rich and with his Holy War in the middle east!

Sounds like the Baptist Preacher has been watching too many Pat Robertson hours on TV! Saint Patty Cakes should tell those guys who never miss his SHOW, not to try all that Hellfire and Gemstone stuff he tells them about on TV, at home! I have a feelin' the Holy Sheiite is about to hit the big fan, somewhere up in Beulah land, PDQ! People like that guy are what is going to Bring people like KKKarl to their knees for real! Keep up the good work Brothers!

[DrCorday]

592. >> MSNBC Countdown: Dems Voted Out of Church

Keith Olbermann must have picked up some of the emails, found this earlier this morning:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7769149/

WAYNESVILLE, N.C. - Some in Pastor Chan Chandler’s flock wish he had a little less zeal for the GOP.

Members of the small East Waynesville Baptist Church say Chandler led an effort to kick out congregants who didn’t support President Bush. Nine members were voted out at a Monday church meeting in this mountain town, about 120 miles west of Charlotte.

“He’s the kind of pastor who says do it my way or get out,” said Selma Morris, the former church treasurer. “He’s real negative all the time.”

Chandler didn’t return a message left by The Associated Press at his home Friday, and several calls to the church went unanswered. He told WLOS-TV in Asheville that the actions were not politically motivated.

The station also reported that 40 others in the 400-member congregation resigned in protest after Monday’s vote.

During the presidential election last year, Chandler told the congregation that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic Sen. John Kerry should either leave the church or repent, said former member Lorene Sutton.

Some church members left after Chandler made his ultimatum in October, Morris said.

George Bullard, associate executive director-treasurer for Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, told the Asheville Citizen-Times that a pastor has every right to disallow memberships if a church’s bylaws allow for the pastor to establish criteria for membership.

“Membership is a local church issue,” he said. “It is not something the state convention would enter into.”

He added that the nine members were not legally terminated because Monday’s meeting was supposed to be a deacons meeting, not a business meeting. They have a lawyer looking into the situation, he said.

The head of the North Carolina Democratic Party sharply criticized the pastor Friday, saying Chandler jeopardized his church’s tax-free status by openly supporting a candidate for president.

“If these reports are true, this minister is not only acting extremely inappropriately by injecting partisan politics into a house of worship, but he is also potentially breaking the law,” Chairman Jerry Meek said.

Doris Wilson, one of Chandler’s neighbors and a member of First Baptist Church in Waynesville, said God doesn’t play partisan politics.

“I hate to see the church suffer like that,” she said. “God doesn’t care whether you’re a Republican or a Democrat. It just hurts to see that going on.”

--

Apparently there's also a clip on MSNBC. I will look into hosting a copy.

Sorry if this is a repost, but I searched through and it looked new.

[Catherine Vincent]

596. Keith Olbermann talked about it on his show yesterday.

He did a phone interview with one of the 40 that protested. There is a thread started by Dzika with the video.

[DrCorday]

599. Oh really?

My bad. I've seen the video, but I'm afraid I missed the DU thread. Thanks for the update!

[chomskysright]

595. picked up by AP; NYTimes, Truth Out too!!

picked up at Truth Out also: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/050705Z.shtml

Dems Voted Out of Church Weigh Options
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 7, 2005
WAYNESVILLE, N.C. (AP) -- A pastor who led a charge to kick out nine church members who refused to support President Bush was the talk of the town Saturday in this mountain hamlet, with ousted congregants considering hiring a lawyer.


Democrats Voted Out of Baptist Church
The Associated Press
Saturday 07 May 2005
Waynesville, N.C. - Some in Pastor Chan Chandler's flock wish he had a little less zeal for the GOP. Members of the small East Waynesville Baptist Church say Chandler led an effort to kick out congregants who didn't support President Bush. Nine members were voted out at a Monday church meeting in this mountain town, about 120 miles west of Charlotte.
"He's the kind of pastor who says do it my way or get out," said Selma Morris, the church treasurer who was among those voted out. "He's real negative all the time."
Chandler didn't return a message left by The Associated Press at his home Friday, and several calls to the church went unanswered. He told WLOS-TV in Asheville that the actions were not politically motivated.
The station also reported that 40 others in the 100-member congregation resigned in protest after Monday's vote.
During the presidential election last year, Chandler told the congregation that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic Sen. John Kerry should either leave the church or repent, said former member Lorene Sutton.

[chomskysright]

597. NC Dems pick it up:

http://ncdp.org/

NC Democratic Party Chair’s Statement on Reports of Waynesville Church Kicking Out Democrats
Submitted by NCDP on Fri, 05/06/2005 - 2:30pm. Press Releases
North Carolina Democratic Party Chair Jerry Meek made the following statement about reports that the minister of East Waynesville Baptist Church asked nine church members to resign "saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent." :

"One of the Bible's most repeated commands is to 'Love your neighbor.' If these reports are true, this minister is not only acting extremely inappropriately by injecting partisan politics into a house of worship, but he is also potentially breaking the law and threatening the church's 501 (c) (3) non-profit status."

[paineinthearse]

598. AP - Dems Voted Out of Church Weigh Options

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/church_politics

Dems Voted Out of Church Weigh Options By PAUL NOWELL, Associated Press Writer
Sat May 7, 7:51 PM ET

A pastor who led a charge to kick out nine church members who refused to support President Bush was the talk of the town Saturday in this mountain hamlet, with ousted congregants considering hiring a lawyer. Pastor Chan Chandler greeted people at the door of tiny East Waynesville Baptist Church on Saturday evening as the church choir practiced and even welcomed them to attend services Sunday morning — if there's room inside. But he was not prepared to talk about his mixing of religion and politics. "On the advice of counsel, I've been advised not to have any comment at this time," Chandler told The Associated Press. "We will have a statement later."

Members of the congregation said Chandler told them during last year's presidential campaign that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic nominee John Kerry needed to leave the church. Longtime member Selma Morris, who was treasurer at the church, said Chandler's sermons remained political after Bush won re-election. This past week, his comments turned to politics again at a church gathering that ended with nine members voted out. Morris said Saturday that some of the ousted members planned to meet with an attorney on Monday to discuss their options. "We're hoping he (the attorney) will make him leave so that the church members can come back," she said.

"This is very disturbing," said Pastor Robert Prince III, who leads the congregation at the nearby First Baptist Church. "I've been a pastor for more than 25 years, and I have never seen church members voted out for something like this." Those who are still members did not know if the church would be open for services Sunday, or if Chandler would be in the pulpit to preach. The 100-member East Waynesville Baptist Church sits on a bluff a short distance from downtown Waynesville, a mountain town about 125 miles northwest of Charlotte. A white steeple and stain glass windows adorn the simple brick structure, built in 1965, with a view of the mountains from the front steps.

Across the street sits the church's parsonage, a small brick ranch home with children's toys scattered in the front lawn. A small wooden sign out front reads simply "The Chandlers." No one answered the phone there on Saturday. In the days since the nine members were ousted, many more members have reportedly left the church in protest. "He went on and on about how he's going to bring politics up, and if we didn't agree with him, we should leave," Isaac Sutton told The News and Observer of Raleigh. "I think I deserve the right to vote for who I want to."

more.....

[DrCorday]

600. UPDATE: This AP update is now on MSNBC as well.

Members ousted by pastor over Kerry votes may sue
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7769149/

WAYNESVILLE, N.C. - A pastor who led a charge to kick out nine church members who refused to support President Bush was the talk of the town Saturday in this mountain hamlet, with ousted congregants considering hiring a lawyer.

Pastor Chan Chandler greeted people at the door of tiny East Waynesville Baptist Church on Saturday evening as the church choir practiced and even welcomed them to attend services Sunday morning — if there’s room inside. But he was not prepared to talk about his mixing of religion and politics.

“On the advice of counsel, I’ve been advised not to have any comment at this time,” Chandler told The Associated Press. “We will have a statement later.”

Members of the congregation said Chandler told them during last year’s presidential campaign that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic nominee John Kerry needed to leave the church.

Longtime member Selma Morris, who was treasurer at the church, said Chandler’s sermons remained political after Bush won re-election. This past week, his comments turned to politics again at a church gathering that ended with nine members voted out.

Some ousted members to meet with lawyer
Morris said Saturday that some of the ousted members planned to meet with an attorney on Monday to discuss their options. “We’re hoping he (the attorney) will make him leave so that the church members can come back,” she said.

“This is very disturbing,” said Pastor Robert Prince III, who leads the congregation at the nearby First Baptist Church. “I’ve been a pastor for more than 25 years, and I have never seen church members voted out for something like this.”

Those who are still members did not know if the church would be open for services Sunday, or if Chandler would be in the pulpit to preach.

The 100-member East Waynesville Baptist Church sits on a bluff a short distance from downtown Waynesville, a mountain town about 125 miles northwest of Charlotte. A white steeple and stain glass windows adorn the simple brick structure, built in 1965, with a view of the mountains from the front steps.

Across the street sits the church’s parsonage, a small brick ranch home with children’s toys scattered in the front lawn. A small wooden sign out front reads simply “The Chandlers.” No one answered the phone there on Saturday.

Members leave in protest
In the days since the nine members were ousted, many more members have reportedly left the church in protest.

“He went on and on about how he’s going to bring politics up, and if we didn’t agree with him, we should leave,” Isaac Sutton told The News and Observer of Raleigh. “I think I deserve the right to vote for who I want to.”

Sutton, a deacon who worshipped at East Waynesville Baptist Church for the past 12 years, said he and his wife were among the nine voted out.

“I’ve been going to this church for 25 years and I’ve never had a problem,” Sutton’s wife, Lorene, told The Associated Press on Friday. “He’s young and he thinks he knows everything.”

Other former members of the church declined to speak with a reporter Saturday, citing the advice of their attorney. But the furor over politics at the church was the talk of Waynesville, a community of about 9,200 residents.

“It’s just an outrage for something like this to happen in America,” said Heidi Jenkins, 52, as she held a garage sale at her home down the street from the church.

Prince said he noticed during the presidential campaign that more pastors made endorsements — although not from the pulpit — than in past years.

“It used to be that pastors would speak about the issues and not specific candidates,” he said. “I think that line is being crossed.”

---
NBC clipped it, irritatingly, but it's still the same basic story.

[La Femme]

602. Latest News?

What's the latest news? Weren't some locals going to protest or attend the church services today? Is there no news coming in from people actually on site?

[chomskysright]

603. Report from DUer who attended Waynesville, NC church today:

About 7 press people there: AP; CNN; Asheville Citizen Times newspaper; local Sinclair station who did the original recording of the older/ ousted members of the church, etc.

I stood there with my sign:

"Who would Jesus exclude" wearing my BUCK BUSH T-shirt.

The other side of my protest sign read: "Fristians are not Christian" and there was a reference to www.democraticunderground.com.

Many of the Press knew about DU. I suppose it is becoming something of a reference point.

The woman from Charlotte who is writing a book, Southern Cross(es?) was there also.

Should be around, that picture, with those signs. I glued a bunch of glitter on them hoping for a photo-op.

About 30 older people and their associated families stood around from about 10:30 until just before the church opened its doors. Their attorney was there, hanging out with the press with their cameras, in this sleepy little town. The neighbors and Waynesville police were watching from afar. I walked up the road to speak with 3 of the neighbors; across the board people were interested and seemed to be in agreement that the church 'been a messin where they shouldn't been a messin.' One woman stated that many of the church members had stayed away today, anticipating that there would be trouble.

We sat down to a lot of singing (4 full verses of "How Great Thou Art") and the pastor emphasizing that there 'will be a business meeting on tuesday evening and ONLY MEMBERS will be welcome and able to vote.' (I guess that excludes the 9 who were dis-membered and the reportedly 40 who walked out in support of them.

Clearly, he was throwing down the gauntlet.

I couldn't stay for all that preachin' and so stood outside with the press people who were pretty funny to hang with.

I used it as a consciousness raising opportunity. The press asked me about why was I here (concern re: fundamentalism intruding into the public life too much of the time).

I handed out some talking points re: Charles Taylor (R-NC: Western NC) and Senator Frist's voting record, making the point that I did not understand why many people would vote against their own best middle-class interests.

Will be interesting to see what gets picked up.

Great that DU was in all of this.

[Chemical Bill]

606. Thanks for the update

And thanks for being there. Your sign says it all.

Bill