PLAME INDICTMENTS THREAD #9 High Crimes & Misdemeanors

[Pallas180]

PLAME INDICTMENTS THREAD 9 -High Crimes & Misdemeanors


Links to previous 8 threads

If and when indictments come down in the Plame case,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

300+ DU thread now as MSWord.doc (easier download)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

If and when indictments come down in the Plame case-thread2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments.....Thread 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments.....Thread 4
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments.....Thread 5
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments......thread 6
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments .... thread 7
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments..... thread 8
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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BELOW ARE LETTERS/GUIDES TO FAX/EMAIL/SNAIL MAIL TO CONGRESS & MEDIA TO JOG THEM INTO ACTION & INCLUDING A TOLL FREE PHONE NUMBER

278. CONTACT CONGRESS & LEADERSHIP ADDRESSES:


Fax Numbers of US Congress

http://www.no-smoking.org/feb97/2-17-97-01.html


Congressional Leadership

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-bin/leadership.cg ...


Congressional Committees & Subcommittees

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-bin/committee_lis ...


Misc. Contact Congress

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/search.html


CALIMARY MEDIA & EDITORS CONTACT LIST


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...


Updated Calimary list

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...


Individual Reporters & Newspaper List

forgive me, it's on the drudge rag site, but it's useful

http://www.drudgereport.com /
_______________________________________________________________
1 (800) 839 - 5276 - TOLL FREE Capitol Hill Switchboard number! They'll transfer you to any House/Senate office you name!



H20's SUGGESTED LETTER TO MEDIA & CONGRESS

for you to copy or use as a guide to send:
Here's a suggestion ......


Dear _________;

I am writing to express my concerns about on-going efforts to discredit Ambassador Joseph Wilson. In his NYT Op-Ed article "What I Didn't Find In Africa," Wilson exposed a claim by President Bush in his 2003 State of the Union Address to be untrue. Since that time, the White House has been involved in an effort to destroy Wilson's reputation, which included exposing his wife as a CIA operative.

In John Dean's review of Wilson's book (NYT Book Review; 5-23-04; pg9) he documents that two days after the op-ed article ran, journalist Robert Novak was telling people that Wilson's wife Valerie Plame was a CIS "weapons of mass destruction specialist."

Novak exposed Plame's identity in a 7-14-03 column. He sourced his story to two "senior administration officials." These two senior White House officials had lobbied at least six journalists to expose Plame in what Dean calls a "you-hurt-us-we-will-hurt-you warning" to those tempted to expose administration "misinformation."

When Wilson appeared on MSNBC's "Countdown," host Keith Olbermann held up three identical e-mails from the White House. Olbermann explained their intent was to discredit Wilson with their "talking points."

Wilson has noted that Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security advisor pointed out that since the Bush people never back down, the fact that they had admitted an error after the op-ed article indicated "they must have something more important to protect." (The Politics of Truth, by Wilson; pg4)

Joseph Klein's 7-5-04 article in Time (Plenty More to Swear About; pg 21) reveals that Plame was "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components" when her identity was exposed by the White House. "Only a high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the pay-roll," an intelligence source told Klein.

There is clearly more to this story than the White House and senate republicans are willing to tell the public. What investigation by Plame needed to be derailed by the White House? I hope that national leaders and the media will focus attention on this important issue.

Sincerely,


____________________________________________________________________

KOHO'S SHORT & SWEET SUGGESTED LETTER TO SEND


Dear_________;

I am writing about the outing of CIA Agent Valerie Plame. It seems that the Grand jury Investigation has wrapped up or will soon, but little has been mentioned of late. What may have been political payback to Joe Wilson for refuting the Niger yellowcake claims in the State of the Union address could have actually made this country a great deal less safe. According to Joseph Klein (Time 7-5-04--Plenty More to Swear About), Plame may have been "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components." If this is true (or even a possibility, those responsible must be brought to justice. I submit that underground trafficking of WMD components presents a far more imminent threat to our country than Saddam Hussein did. In my mind this certainly achieves the status of "High Crimes," and I urge you to not let this issue fall by the wayside. The security of our country may have been irretrievably harmed by a few high ranking officials and they must be brought to task.

Sincerely,


_____________________________________________________________________
PALLAS' 'GIVE EM HELL' SUGGESTED LETTER

Dear ____________


Concerning Time magazine's Joe Klein's July 5 article, page 21 revealed that Valerie Plame was "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of Weapons of Mass Destruction components"" when her identity was exposed by the White House. It also said" Only a high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge" that Valerie Plame was a covert CIA agent.

1) Our study group has found that Vice President Cheney since 1995 as CEO of Halliburton was fined 1.2 milion dollars for illegal sales of similar components to Libya. Shortly before becoming Vice President he bitterly assailed US policy against selling such components to Syrria and Iran, which apparently hurt Halliburton's bottom line.

2) Our study group has also found that there is an investigation of Vice President Cheney in other countries for illegal bribery and various other offenses connected to Halliburton as well as paying amounts to secret Swiss bank accounts

3)The Atomic Energy Commission has said a North American company is one of 20 being investigated for black market sales of WMD materials.

Our study group suspects there is more to the White House revealing Valerie Plame's covert CIA status since the Republicans refuse to hold investigations on the matter.

Frankly, it would appear to us that possibly Valerie Plame was stopped in her tracks and the CIA sting operation was exposed because it was coming close to discovering another violation of the laws by our own Vice President and the Hallibuton company he has awarded billions of US taxpayer dollars to in non-bid contracts.

There is a question of where the Vice President's and President's loyalty lies: to their Corporate friends and company's bottom line or to the security and wellbeing of the America.n people?

In any case, the exposure of Valerie Plame by the White House was and is treasonous.

The responsibility of the Media and Congress is to expose these wrong doings, investigate and safeguard against this type of occurrence for the American people.

WHY are you not fulfilling your role to me, to my study group, and the rest of the American people in this country and WHEN will you start ?


Sincerely

___________________________________________________________________
Arbustochupa's lettter

Dear _________;

I am writing to express my concerns about on-going efforts to discredit Ambassador Joseph Wilson. In his NYT Op-Ed article "What I Didn't Find In Africa," Wilson exposed a claim by President Bush in his 2003 State of the Union Address to be untrue. Since that time, the White House has been involved in an effort to destroy Wilson's reputation, which included exposing his wife as a CIA operative.

In John Dean's review of Wilson's book (NYT Book Review; 5-23-04; pg9) he documents that two days after the op-ed article ran, journalist Robert Novak was telling people that Wilson's wife Valerie Plame was a CIS "weapons of mass destruction specialist."

Novak exposed Plame's identity in a 7-14-03 column. He sourced his story to two "senior administration officials." These two senior White House officials had lobbied at least six journalists to expose Plame in what Dean calls a "you-hurt-us-we-will-hurt-you warning" to those tempted to expose administration "misinformation."

When Wilson appeared on MSNBC's "Countdown," host Keith Olbermann held up three identical e-mails from the White House. Olbermann explained their intent was to discredit Wilson with their "talking points."

Wilson has noted that Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security advisor pointed out that since the Bush people never back down, the fact that they had admitted an error after the op-ed article indicated "they must have something more important to protect." (The Politics of Truth, by Wilson; pg4)

Joseph Klein's 7-5-04 article in Time (Plenty More to Swear About; pg 21) reveals that Plame was "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components" when her identity was exposed by the White House. "Only a high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the pay-roll," an intelligence source told Klein.

There is clearly more to this story than the White House and senate republicans are willing to tell the public. What investigation by Plame needed to be derailed by the White House? I hope that national leaders and the media will focus attention on this important issue.

Sincerely,

___________________________________________________________________

[Stephanie]

1. Another clue for you all: Remember TUWAITHA

Why did BushCO allow Iraqi nuclear materials to be LOOTED immediately after the invasion and for weeks to follow?

old thread from October 2003


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http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A39500-2003Aug...

In an interview with the New York Times published Sept. 6, Card did not mention the WHIG but hinted at its mission. "From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August," he said.

<snip>The day after publication of Card's marketing remark, Bush and nearly all his top advisers began to talk about the dangers of an Iraqi nuclear bomb.

Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair conferred at Camp David that Saturday, Sept. 7, and they each described alarming new evidence. Blair said proof that the threat is real came in "the report from the International Atomic Energy Agency this morning, showing what has been going on at the former nuclear weapon sites." Bush said "a report came out of the . . . IAEA, that they were six months away from developing a weapon. I don't know what more evidence we need."

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http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/08/iraq.debate /

Rice acknowledged that "there will always be some uncertainty" in determining how close Iraq may be to obtaining a nuclear weapon but said, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

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http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/2002100...

Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud. - G. Bush, 10/7/02

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http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/6068775.htm
Looting of Iraqi nuclear facility indicts U.S. goals
If we feared the loss of radioactive materials, why not guard them?
TRUDY RUBIN
Knight Ridder Newspapers
Posted on Thu, Jun. 12, 2003

TUWAITHA, Iraq - On a dusty road, just outside of Baghdad, lies one of the great mysteries of the Iraq war.

<snip>The administration knew full well what was stored at Tuwaitha. So how is it possible that the U.S. military failed to secure the nuclear facility until weeks after the war started? This left looters free to ransack the barrels, dump their contents, and sell them to villagers for storage.

How is it possible that, according to Iraqi nuclear scientists, looters are still stealing radioactive isotopes? The Tuwaitha story makes a mockery of the administration's vaunted concern with weapons of mass destruction. The U.S. military hastened to secure the Ministry of Oil in Baghdad from looters. But Iraq's main nuclear facility was apparently not important enough to get similar protection.

<snip>And why, in facilities other than Location C, is the looting apparently continuing? Hisham Abdel Malik, a Iraqi nuclear scientist who lives near Tuwaitha and has been inside the complex, told me that in buildings "where there are radioactive isotopes, there is looting every day." He says the isotopes, which are in bright silver containers, "are sold in the black market or kept in homes." According to IAEA spokeswoman Melissa Fleming, such radioactive sources can kill on contact or pollute whole neighborhoods.

How could an administration that had hyped the danger of Saddam handing off nuclear materials to terrorists let Tuwaitha be looted? Maybe the hype was just hype ... or maybe the Pentagon didn't send enough troops to Iraq to do the job right.

Either answer is damning.<more>

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http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/World/reuters20030716_19...
U.N. in Dark About Looted Iraq Dirty Bomb Material
July 16
By Louis Charbonneau

VIENNA (Reuters) - The U.N. nuclear watchdog said Wednesday it had accounted for most of the low-grade uranium lost during looting at Iraq's main nuclear facility, but had no information about more dangerous radioactive material.

<snip>But an IAEA spokeswoman said the agency had not been permitted by U.S. occupation authorities to check the status of Tuwaitha's stocks of highly-radioactive cesium-137, cobalt-160 and other materials which could be used in dirty bombs.

"There were around 400 of these radioactive sources stored at Tuwaitha," IAEA's Melissa Fleming said.

Witnesses have said that villagers near Tuwaitha, especially children, have shown symptoms of radiation sickness.

"Any case of radiation sickness would probably be from these highly-radioactive sources, not from the low-grade natural uranium at Location C," Fleming said.<more>

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http://www.counterpunch.org/schwarz07172003.html
July 17, 2003
Bush's Pre-emptive Strike Doctrine
The Bane of Non-Proliferation Watchdogs
By MARTIN SCHWARZ

<snip>Bush's use of the specter of nuclear threat to legitimate his intimidation policy can also been seen as just another excuse if reports from occupied post-war Iraq are taken into account. When the reports about massive looting in Iraq's biggest nuclear facility Al-Tuwaitha emerged after the war, the U.S. administration rejected the IAEA's request to send inspectors to that facility for more than a month. El-Baradei didn't even get an answer to his letters to U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell. Meanwhile, strange things must have happened in Al-Tuwaitha: The IAEA in Vienna received several phone calls from U.S. soldiers based at the facility to secure it, who didn't know what to do with nuclear material they had found.<more>

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http://www.sierrasun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200...
July 18, 2003
Bush's actions don't match the rhetoric
Guest Column by Kirk Caraway

<snip>Turn back the clock to the before the war. You "know" your enemy has 100-500 tons of chemical weapons, and you know where he is likely hiding them. Wouldn't you try to secure those sites as quickly as possible? After all, these chemical weapons posed a major threat to our advancing troops, and the big danger, they said, was if these fall into the hands of terrorists.

So why wasn't this done? Special Forces teams were flown into Iraq to secure the oil fields, but not the weapons. That speaks volumes about what the real reason for the war is.

And those weapons are still missing. Rumsfeld claims they are doing their best to search all those sites, but this is disconcerting. How many days have his 150,000 soldiers had to search the sites they already know about?

And what about the nukes? If Bush and his people really thought that Iraq had an active nuclear weapons program, why did the military wait for more than a week after taking over the region to even visit the country's main nuclear research facilities at Tuwaitha?

Why did they wait even longer to visit the neighboring Baghdad Nuclear Research Facility? Both sites were heavily looted, so if there were plans for a nuclear bomb or even some weapons-grade material, it would be long gone by now.<more>

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http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,10564...
Saddam's nuclear arsenal? A scattering of yellow powder
Villagers sell deadly uranium to the US army at $3 a barrel
Patrick Graham in Al Mansia
Sunday October 5, 2003
The Observer

Dhia Ali makes a throwing motion as he tells how he dumped out the blue barrels of powder. The nine-year-old and his brother, Hussein, weren't looking for weapons of mass destruction when they went into the low brown buildings, known to UN weapons inspectors as Location C, near his home last April. They just wanted the blue barrels.

The yellow cake powder they poured out and breathed into their lungs - a form of natural uranium - was part of the nuclear programme which, the Iraq Survey Group's recent report claims, somewhat vaguely, was being restarted before the last war. The report won't do much for Dhia or Hussein - they haven't even been examined by a doctor yet.

<snip>The report's claim that Iraq was revamping its nuclear programme in such a way that it could constitute any serious threat was described as 'ridiculous' by the scientist. By 1991, when the he left the programme, Iraq had succeeded in producing no more than one kilogram of enriched uranium - 6 to 14 kgs short of a bomb. By 1997, the programme had been exposed and most of its capabilities destroyed. <more>
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[Pallas180]

5. G'Morning All - Nice Find STEPHANIE.

[hedda_foil]

7. And the US flew 1.7 metric tons of enriched uranium OUT of Iraq in June

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3872201.st ...

Last Updated: Wednesday, 7 July, 2004, 04:39 GMT 05:39 UK



US reveals Iraq nuclear operation

Abraham called the operation a "major achievement"
The US has revealed that it removed more than 1.7 metric tons of radioactive material from Iraq in a secret operation last month.
"This operation was a major achievement," said US Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham in a statement.

He said it would keep "potentially dangerous nuclear materials out of the hands of terrorists".

Along with 1.77 tons of enriched uranium, about 1,000 "highly radioactive sources" were also removed.

The material was taken from a former nuclear research facility on 23 June, after being packaged by 20 experts from the US Energy Department's secret laboratories.

It was flown out of the country aboard a military plane in a joint operation with the Department of Defense, and is being stored temporarily at a Department of Energy facility.

The United Nations nuclear watchdog - the International Atomic Energy Agency - and Iraqi officials were informed ahead of the operation, which happened ahead of the 28 June handover of sovereignty.

'Dirty bomb'?

The explosion of a so-called "dirty bomb" in a city by a terrorist group is a major concern of Western intelligence agencies.

Rather than causing a nuclear explosion, a "dirty bomb" would see radioactive material combined with a conventional explosive - probably causing widespread panic and requiring a large clean-up operation.

[Pallas180]

9. Hedda - Damn that damn fool rummy. Anyone could have gotten to those barre

barrels of yellow cake uranium that the kids were emptying out and
selling for $3 a barrel.

The pentagon did not order anyone to guard the uranium once it was discovered just like they didn't tell anyone to guard the thousands
of stockpiled out in the open mines, rifles, shoulder missile firers
grenades, and all the stuff that the "insurgents" are using aginst
US soldiers.

Now that is a strange thing.

WHY would rummy leave that stuff available to anyone walking by??

and allow the capability of a dirty bomb being created with the unguarded material?

hmmmmm?

[Stephanie]

80. The uranium was not just discovered - the IAEA had sealed it in barrels

Everything had been catologued and stored by the UN weapons inspectors. This was a well-known nuclear site. BushCO could have made plans in advance to secure it immediately, had they cared to.

[alfredo]

111. I believe they broke the seal and entered to see what was in there.

they then left it open and unguarded, as I remember.

We did not have enough troops to protect the nuclear stockpile, ammo dumps, AND the oil ministry.

[MidwestTransplant]

2. Have there been any news updates as to what's going on

in the last couple of weeks? I haven't seen any.

[Pallas180]

3. A THEORY ON THE WHY - Plame -> Cheney->Halliburton

repost

A THEORY ON THE WHY - Plame -> Cheney->Halliburton

On my way home today, as I thought about the why the outing of Valerie Plame was necessary, I was so engrossed I drove 4 exits past my exit.

Here's what we know:

1) Valerie Plame was "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of Weapons of Mass Destruction components"" when her identity was exposed by the White House. It also said" Only a high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge" that Valerie Plame was a covert CIA agent.

2) Vice President Cheney since 1995 as CEO of Halliburton was fined 1.2 milion dollars for illegal sales of components to Libya which could be used for nuclear purposes. Shortly before becoming Vice President he bitterly assailed US policy against selling such components to Syrria and Iran, which apparently hurt Halliburton's bottom line.

3) There is an investigation of Vice President Cheney in other countries for illegal bribery and various other offenses connected to Halliburton as well as paying amounts to secret Swiss bank accounts

4)The Atomic Energy Commission has said a North American company is one of 20 being investigated for black market sales of WMD materials.

Here's the theory:

Valerie Plame was stopped in her tracks and the biggest treasonous taboo of revealing a CIA sting operation was done because she/it was coming close to discovering even more serious violations of the laws against trading nuclear materials with certain countries by our own Vice President and the Hallibuton company he has awarded billions of US taxpayer dollars to in non-bid contracts after he became VP.

Recently Libya was accused of having WMD components and the US threat
ened to invade unless Quaddaffi gave the WMD components to the US.
Bush 2 was seen on TV this week inspecting the cases of returned materials from Iraq triumphantly. The fact that Quaddafi received these illegal shipments of components from Cheney/Halliburton was not
mentioned in the victory video.

Dick Cheney, even after the Senate Intel Committee, The Atomic Commission and numerous other agencies have said no WMD exist in Iraq,
insists Iraq has WMD even in the last week.

Why? Because Dick Cheney knows he, through an offshore Halliburton company with a PO Box, at some time in the past sold Saddam Hussein WMD or components of WMD. In the same way "they" under Bush 1 adminstration sold Hussein lethal gas which he used, and then attacked him for using it saying he was a threat to the community.

Why do Cheney and Bush insist they must attack Syrria and Iran as the next step in making the world safe and that Syrria and Iran have
WMD? Cheney-Halliburton know that Syrria and Iran have WMD components because Cheney illegally sold the WMD components to Syrria and Iran.

Why did Bush Cheney know that North Korea had WMD and where did they gget the components?

Why were Pakistan and India able to test and develop nuclear weapons undetected by the CIA's "big eye in the sky" or any agency's seismic
discovery? And where did India and Pakistan purchase the components
for WMD which were illegal for any company to sell them?

What was Valerie Plame investigating?


good spooks vs the bad spooks in the FBI and CIA becomes very confusing to most, I think.



Not to add confusion to my "theory " above, but I also thought:

When Saudi Arabia asked Junior and Company to get out of Saudi Arabia
afer we had built a monstrous and expensive base armed with the newest weaponry - one might call it a home base -why would they do that, when they had wanted US to protect them and their oil fields for years???

The reason given for asking us to vacate was to calm the anti-American element. Hmmm. But if they needed our protection from that very element, WHY would they ask their protector to leave.
BECAUSE they "likely" also received WMD from certain parties.

So now, we can guess, the entire Middle East is armed with illegal components of WMD...supplied by whom?hmmm

And I agree with you ROBERTPAULSEN- it's a great racket. Supply them
with the components, collect payment. Shuttle back and forth between
private employment and government employment, selling WMD for your company's bottom line while a private CEO, earning large bonuses and
deferred "payment" plus increased stock option value, go back into government, create a war on those countries who have the WMD you have sold them, then you have created a situation where your company and the other companies you hold stock in, or which belong to your other associates, can supply the army with munitions, destroy the country you have sold WMD to, and then the very same companies who supplied the munitions for destruction, go in and rebuild the country.


So. Now how many times have you profiteered?
1) illegal selling of WMD
2) earn bonus, increase value of stock options
3) Supply Army Munitions on no bid contracts
4) Rebuild the country on no bid contracts

[Beam Me Up]

6. Thanks again for these four points

1) illegal selling of WMD
2) earn bonus, increase value of stock options
3) Supply Army Munitions on no bid contracts
4) Rebuild the country on no bid contracts

What I think would be really useful is to have links to documentation following each of these four points -- the 'who what where and how' of them.

That broadcast through our many personal email contacts would just about cinch it.

[Pallas180]

11. BEAM - good idea - some we have - some I think the French are about to

give us.

[Pallas180]

8. H20 began by telling us : You Must Always Ask Why

Repost to Reply #317

- H20 always says ask WHY

WHY was and is the British intelligence info made unavailaable
even to today and forever?

"
The plot was drawn up long before Wilson even went to Niger... the plot was in play supposedly when Cheney became aware of the Brits Intel (which has been conveniently made unavailable)

when Cheney became aware of the Brits Intel

that's WHY. And that's why the Brits won't show it -
because it exposes Cheney/Halliburton's black market sales to Iraq and other countries even after the Boland Act

______________________________________________

You both are assuming that the Brit Intel is the same Intel that the
CIA had. (on yellowcake)

You're right about one thing...the intel agencies all share their info.BUT you are forgetting that the French have been investigating CHeney Halliburton illegalities for some time, and Cheney Halliburton
did not sell yellowcake (to our knowledge), they sold equipment that could be used for dual use - and one of the uses was for a nuklar bomb.

So there is nothing to say that the Brit Intel was the same Niger info.In fact it may not be.

WHY would they not share with the world what information they had about Iraq having WMD? And why have they suddenly changed their mindsagain saying it was bogus after all - after insisting for 1 1/2 years they had separate proof of Iraq having WMD?

Theory: because it would cause a great deal of embarrassment to "he who calls himself president of VICE ! !! a-ha!

Could be one of Halliburton's subsidiaries or offshores, whose name and connection was not recognized immediately was in the hands of Brit Intel so they said they had separate verifying proof of WMD in Iraq - only to realize the proof traced back to a company named Halliburton or Brown Root - and so they shut up. (TOP SECRET - CANNOT BE REVEALED, of course while every intel agency in the world knows, but the general public date not know becaue we would hang the perpetrator)

Highly plausible . First they say they have proof of WMD in Iraq.but refuse to show it.......now they suddenly say the proof is bogus - and still refuse to reveal it.

sniff..sniff....sniff.....

[Norquist Nemesis]

10. Cheney's confession

to knowledge was given during his interview regarding the 9/11 commission report that he disagreed with. Remember when he was asked if he knew something the 9/11 commission did not...he said, "Probably."

That 'probably' goes to a lot of things, including illegal sales of WMD.

[KoKo]

57. I think your point about Cheney being so adament about Iraq having WMD

that he keeps blabbing it whenever he has an opportunity does go deeper than just trying to keep the Repug base inline and he is risking looking very foolish or a liar to the rest of us.

So, there has to be something deeper going on here. It's also possible that he's keeping the "story alive" to cover Blair's butt while Blair continues to say British Intelligence has other evidence supportin Niger purchase.

Josh Marshall and Sy Hersh have called into question who forged the original Niger documents. Hersh said there was a "rumor" being shopped around by what he called a reliable CIA source that the CIA forged the documents themselves to trap the PNAC'ers before the beginning of the Invasion. However Hersh seems to feel that this rumor may not be the truth of it.

Josh Marshall has also said we should question who forged the documents and why. So, it rests alot on what the British Intel documents are and why they wont release them. Is it to "cover" Blair that Cheney keeps talking about this, or are there some other papers that if the source is revealed will either show who the forger is or show that there really was evidence Iraq was trying to buy the yellow cake.

It sounds more likely that Josh and Hersh know something, but can't talk about it yet.

Your theory of Halliburton and other companies constantly selling arms and Chemical/Bio supplies to counties on the sly then creating circumstances to invade and then rebuild is interesting. But, if we're that desperate to enrich our WMD Corpororations I would have thought some whistleblowers would have stepped forward somewhere along the way.

It could be the Globilization finatics, combined with the "multi-nationals" doing this endless circle of "supply and destroy" but it would be so massive I can't see how it could be covered up for so long.

I agree with you, that it's a nightmare scenario. Whatever folks have come up with on these threads could be the truth. Parts of it and all of it. This administration is covering up something big and has alot of help. We do know that. And, it's worse than anything that has gone on before in other administrations...or perhaps it's the culmination of all that's gone on before, now bearing the ugly fruit, but only now there is a vast communications network of information which is allowing the pieces to be exposed one by one. They never counted on that, I think. They were naive about the digital cameras in Iraq which could document the abuse. There may be other things they've overlooked in their massive plan that will be the fatal flaw or Achilles heel that in the end exposes them.

I'm still waiting for Josh Marshall's "shift of the tectonic plates" to occurr. Maybe it's already here it's just going slowly. Drip by Drip.

[Pallas180]

74. Thanks KoKo n/t

[calimary]

181. Perhaps Hersh got the rumor from Mike Ruppert.

Or vice versa. Or whatever. The "Coup d'Etat" article in From the Wilderness talks about a supposed sting operation by the CIA, in which its own operatives forged those documents, setting a trap for our pals in the White House to fall into.

And yes, they're still overlooking a LOT. Mainly, I suspect, because so far, they've managed to get away with so much. That's because they exploited everyone's fears after 9/11 so thoroughly (the "new Pearl Harbor") that the media got in line, the Dems in the Senate and House got in line, and most of the American people got in line. Many were KEPT in line by intimidation and name-calling (unpatriotic, unAmerican, "Saddam-lovers," traitors, Neville Chamberlains, appeasers, and more). And all were played like fiddles for awhile, until some of us decided to kick a few things around on the internet, and ask a few questions on our on (our media surrogates certainly weren't doing it).

While all of that was fermenting like some witch's brew, the successful suppression of dissent built on the arrogance and hubris of these people. Soon, it probably gave them good reason to think they were invincible, because they had EVERYBODY in their back pockets.

And that's when you find an increasing possibility of some of these people starting to get sloppy. If everything's in the bag and everybody's scared and the press corps isn't asking questions and you have the Pox "News" network and the limbaughs and the tom delays and everybody else shouting down, intimidating, demonizing, marginalizing or Joe McCarthy-ing those few skeptics who try to ask questions, then you can relax a little as you go about your business. And you assume everyone's so thoroughly threatened and intimidated that you don't even worry about it anymore. And THEREIN lies your Achilles Heel. Then one of you gets too drunk in Ahmed Chalabi's presence and forgets him/herself and mouths off, and dicey stuff gets not only exposed but passed to the Iranians, and you forget about, and misunderestimate the internet and those willing to use it, and a few other things. You get sloppy, you start making mistakes, and it's inevitable that SOMEBODY among your adversaries starts to notice, and becomes motivated to get to work on a few things...

[Pallas180]

187. CALIMARY Stick around. We need ya.

[coeur_de_lion]

4. H2O can you restate your theory that outing Plame had also to do with

putting the kabosh on her investigation?

See post 350, thread 8.

[shraby]

12. Possible scenario for election terrorism.

This is off topic, but I want to know what you think. The administration has said we can expect a terrorist attack for the election. I think we might expect huge power failures in maybe California and Ohio on election day, or other largely democrat areas. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

By the way, this thread needs kicked. My kicks don't seem to work.

[coeur_de_lion]

19. I don't think we can foresee WHAT they will do to disrupt. We can only

be sure that they will disrupt.

Probably come from all kinds of directions. Lots of different distractions.

I had some hard-core Rethug gentlemen visit me in my office a few days ago. One was beyond hope, but the other said that if * tried to delay the election he himself would be marching on DC. If you knew who they were you would be pretty surprised, as I was, that he would say this. The Repubs are catching on, little by little.

I think they will some day wake up to the notion that the Republican party is going to the dogs. Or the chimps, however you wanna see it.

[Pallas180]

21. Schraby - right now I'd worry about what this admin has done

with the yellow cake and the detonators they got back from Iraq and
Libya. dirty bomb talk all the time...the lil baastids.

When I stop researching some stuff from here I'll take a look
at the blackout thing....

[H2O Man]

23. On the last thread

I had quoted from a prediction that Patrick Buchanan made in 1999. I know that most liberals/leftists have a natural cringing-type of reaction to Pat B ..... although all of the Irish-Americans on here know from extended family experience that the "Uncle Pats" in their family, though full of crap during the arguments about politics at family reunions, are often smart and insightful when you are one-on-one. Buchanan, for all of his folly, is often right on target.

Though you should never overestimate the administration, neith should you overestimate their abilities. Likewise, much as the Roman Empire had to deal with the wrath of the tribal people around the fringes of their metro-empire, the United States faces a serious threat from the tribal Islamic peoples who do not welcome Halliburton culture with open arms.

Note: I do not use terms such as "tribal" or "Islamic" in a judgemental way. If anything, I prefer the basic foundations of tribal thought. And I think that Islam is as valuable a religious tradition as any other. At the same time, as Erich Fromm pointed out, there are negative potentials from tribal thought patterns, and all of the great religious traditions have contributed to the savagery and violence that the world has experienced.

I think it is important to remember that while this administration can and will manipulate everything .... there are very real dangers facing this nation besides those posed by the administration.

[Tellurian]

15. Ok, I will restate my theory...prefaced by a a direct comment from Wilson

"Wilson has said the apparently illegal disclosure of his wife's identify (she was a covert CIA officer) was made in retaliation for his speaking out about the lack of evidence in Niger."

noting that so far, Wilson has not even ventured a whiff at the notion of the outing of his wife has come on the heels of a perceived threat by VP Cheney.. Could there be a smoking gun somewhere...sure there could. Could be a trump card Wilson has yet to play if he finds it necessary..my options are open..

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/07/16/wilson/ind...

starting with how I've arrived at my conclusions:

my riff was about the conclusions...and a reminder to keep an open mind until we could get a handle on what the other side was doing and what their motivations were.. It wasn't obvious at first that Amb Wilson was a target.. all the focus was on the outing of Plame...when it suddenly occurred to me what Wilson's role was in the scheme of things, then it all made sense..

The defining factor was when we were able to look at what the circumstances would be if Wilson didn't speak up about the 16 words when he did...thats when it became clear what the game was about.

The very next day, after I stated my theory, was when the assault on Wilson from Schmidt and the NYT became serious...actually, by Joe Wilson crying foul when he did, he tipped the balance of the scales of what would have been an easy path for the perps involved to brand Wilson a traitor, using him as the scapegoat for Bush going to war.

You all have to remember, Clinton's first utterance when asked about the war...he said: "What is Bush's exit strategy?" There never was a response from the WH on his statement...It just evaporated into the ether..his question resonated with me and became the foundation that would eventually prove my theory out as a valid one.

The shorter version...By correcting Bush, Wilson threw a monkey wrench into their gears and forced them to change the dynamics of their plan.

and this observation...from Tactical Peak..

Post #22

"Wilson reveals in his book that a group of the usual suspects, including Newt Gingrich and pardoned felon, Elliot Abrams, met in the VP offices in March 2003 and decided to do a "work-up" on Wilson, four months before his op-ed in the NYT in July 2003. March 2003 is when the IAEA did their merciless shoot-down of the forged docs.

When his article did appear in July, the WH almost immediately withdrew the Niger claim, like the next day, during aWol's trip to Africa. Anonymously, from AF1, IIRC. So, of all the horseshit these creeps shoveled in the rush to war, why did this one aspect cause a "hot stove" recoil?"

These direct quotes reinforces my contention frm Ambassador Wilson was the prime target of the Bush WH, all along..The outing of his wife is as he said, in retaliation for his comments refuting Bush's 16 words as an inaccurate statement in his SOTU address referring to WMD in Iraq.

All this just for the record...

[H2O Man]

33. While I do not disagree with your opinion

(in fact, I admire your insight) I would urge you to keep in mind that Joseph Wilson can not speak openly about any of the work his wife was doing. In fact, the laws and regulations involving what can and can not be revealed about CI operatives includes those who have died. The administration is fully aware of this, and may, in fact, be hoping to bait him into saying something rash in order to compromise him in regard to the Plame exposure.

Joseph Wilson is one of the very brightest, most honest, and capable people in public service in this generation.

[Tellurian]

48. Believe me, H2O...I am very well aware of CIA, FBI and NSA protocal...

I come from a very big family that has been involved past and present in areas of government service.

[daria_g]

207. A theory..

Perhaps minor, but there was discussion on thread #8 about the rift between Cheney/Abrams/Libby and Rove over this. I remember how the story first bubbled up in the media - when Wilson gave that great soundbite about Karl Rove being frog marched out of the White House. Could it be that Wilson figured that.. Rove wasn't directly responsible, but was certainly the one most likely to crack and talk to investigators in order to save his own skin? and hence decided to call Rove out in public. Rove, the weakest link..

[H2O Man]

17. Yes, I can.

We know that Valerie Plame was involved in a sting operation involving the components for WMDs. This is verfied in J. Klein's article in Time, 7-5-04. Remember also that when Novak called CI for confirmation of Plame's status -- and Robert NoFacts had told a total stranger on a public street on the day afterWilson's NYT op-ed article that she was a WMD specialist -- the CIA requested that he not only should NOT mention Wilson's wife was an operative with the Agency, but that her name should not ever be printed.

One of the things to keep in mind is that by revealing Plame's identity, it insured that at very least, a half-dozen operatives (American and other-wise) were exposed to the last people on earth that they should have been exposed to. Let's just say, for example, that there was a person who was working in the Pakistan area ... and he had worked in deep cover for over a decade, and was very, very close to accessing information on the sale of not only technology, but also components, that went to Iran .... and he had a known link to Plame .... then he would be dead 24 hours after Novak's article was printed. Further, no one in the USA would be at liberty to discuss the fact that he existed.

You will recall that I've referred to this as high stakes chess. A board game where the removal of one player compromises the safety and value of several others.

Listen: if they wanted to call Wilson's conclusions into question, they could create confusion with a series of bullshit documents from England, etc. They could have said that his was one of three US reports, and that there were the British papers that were still open to question, considering that Wilson had not viewed them. They could have even said, yes, we tend to agree with Wilson.

But they didn't. They had been waiting to reveal information on Plame for some time. The fact that Iran is sharing he focus in the recent days, along with Wilson, is a clue .... a big clue.

[coeur_de_lion]

18. Tellurian, does that do it for you? I mean, can you tie in both theories

now? They both make sense, and they are both valid arguments or statements of fact, however you choose to see it.

Run them together and what have you got? HMMMMM?

[Tellurian]

42. Nope...I'm sticking with the statements made by Joe Wilson himself...

And I support his bravery in having the courage to out the POTUS in front of God and the World. And will do my utmost to support whatever he wishes in his best interests and that of his wife Valerie, and his family.

This situation is his to call and I'm not about to strong arm him by deluging him with letters for more information that may be classified or not, that would jeopardize the outcome of a grand jury investigation into the motives of who, what and why, certain person/s have committed a felony and are responsible for making public his wife's secret identity, to satisfy a need to know, right now..

I think the ongoing letter writing campaign keeping the issue on the media's front burner is a good idea. But delving into more personal information in the interests of personal gratification, a need to know more than has been revealed by him, is not something I would support.

[Pallas180]

71. I am convinced Valerie Plame was the target, & they thought

they would do a 'Rosenberg' on them. Two for the price of one.

Set them up.

Traitors to the country, electric chair, the whole bit.

[calimary]

143. That would fit in conveniently with the message they evidently wanted

to put out to the intel community: the "do not cheney with us" message. Wilson has, many times, mentioned that what happened to his wife, whether to her directly or indirectly to him, was to seriously discourage others from getting "out of line." Wouldn't that just be the decisive little coup de grace - to "Rosenberg" one or both of them, to put a chill on anybody else who might be getting too dangerously close? If they knew they were not only going to be ruined, but they also faced the electric chair or some other kind of EXTREMELY final punishment, there'd be icicles hanging off all of them before you could say "BOO!"

And for awhile, they've seemed invincible, haven't they? So who would dare...

But things are a lot stickier and more complicated now. Their anticipated free ride is starting to get seriously mucked up as more people know, and talk, and spread out, and start asking questions, and some guy like Fitzgerald gets involved (who couldn't be counted on to be a "good" republi-CON after all. And, as someone else mentioned either here or on Thread 8 - they misunderestimated the internet. They thought we'd all just shut up and go to our corner and suck our thumbs and mope and cower and give up, didn't they? They didn't know we'd (literally, here) go underground...

As Martha Stewart would say - it's a VERY good thing. And it's gaining traction.

Which is what our efforts in all these arenas should do, as well. GAIN TRACTION.

[Pallas180]

13. Famous Quote:" just as much money to be made out of wrecking civilization-

"What most people don't seem to realize is that there is just as much money to be made out of the wreckage of a civilization as from the upbuilding of one."

-Margaret Mitchell

[Pallas180]

14. Another Quote on The Federal Reserve:

"The Federal Reserve is one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by International Bankers".

Louis McFadden, Congressmen, Chairman of House Committe on Banking and Foreign Currency

[Pallas180]

20. SCHRABY -Holy Sh--! Wolfowitz is a member of Bilderberg - look here

http://www.bilderberg.org/bilder.htm

[shraby]

32. So I see.

I'm not familiar with Bilderberg..just went to the site and did a cursory skim through. Didn't John Edwards just attend meetings at Bilderberg?

It looks like an organization for world dominance. Am I right?

[Pallas180]

35. SCHRABY-they are "the" originator of the World Dominance plans by the

"elite" bankers, industrialists, philosophers....but mostly the old
original banking houses which became the Federal REserve,the International Money Fund, and then the World Trade Organization.

Every President or vice president has been vetted by the. If they
didn't choose the Pres, they made sure they had a veep of theirs in
place.

It's so fucking incredible that a group of people could get away with this. Long term planners.

READ DAVID ROCKEFELLER'S QUOTE. It tells the whole story.

I'm sickened by this.

[Pallas180]

36. H20 - It's so massive. What can be done? If anything.

very unhappy (:

[shraby]

40. I got the same feeling..

it's not only massive but extremely powerful. PNAC is our branch of it. No wonder there have been no reprisals for Bush's crimes.

[H2O Man]

45. Everything under the sun

is exactly as it should be .... or it wouldn't be. There is no reason to be either depressed or afraid. Rather, it is important to think that those feelings are a normal reaction ..... and that they come as the result of your putting in a tremendous amount of hard work in the past 7-10 days .... and much of that work found you elated and inspired. A coin always has two sides .... it can NOT be otherwise .... and so what you are feeling now is temporary.

Gandhi used to say that humanity is an ocean, and just because a few drops in the ocean are dirty, it doesn't make the ocean dirty. Of course today, we see that we have had a toxic spill of neocon waste in the ocean .... but it will come to pass.

Do you remember the saying that is used in AA? About changing what you can, accepting that which you can't change, and understanding the difference? That's part of this. We are just people, doing the best we can to protect humanity from an un-natural force.

When Martin got depressed (more often than people may realize, because he took SO MUCH upon his shoulders!) he loved to recite a poem by James Russell Lowell (and Martin often "edited" it)

Once to every person and nation,
Comes the moment to decide
In the strife of truth and falsehood
For the good or evil side;
Some great cause God's new Messiah
Offering each the gloom or blight
And the choice goes by forever
Twixt that darkness and that light.

Though the cause of evil prosper
Yet 'tis truth alone is strong
Though her portion be the scaffold
And upon the throne be wrong
And yet that scaffold sways the future
And behind that dim unknown
Standeth God within the shadow
Keeping watch above his own.

Either Martin Luther King, Jr or George W. Bush is telling the truth. Only one of the two of them could possibly have a grasp on what is true, real, and honest. The other is either delusional or a lying carp. I think Martin lived the truth to the fullest extent humanly possible.

[coeur_de_lion]

61. Nice reply, H2O.

Combining bits of Buddhist wisdom, AA, and Lowell.

[StandUpGuy]

117. H2O

I've annoyed reading your posts and enjoy your insight.

I once quibbled with a statement about Bush's mental capacity however after reading many posts its now moot.

My question to you is this. If you don't mind.

Do you think that the Us is currently fight a traditional proxy war in Iraq( this time against Europe), that historically would have been fought by neighbors or internal ethnic groups. If so why do you think The US and Great Britain have been forced to use their own troops.

If not, how do you see the rest of the western powers reacting to further or continued U.S aggression?

[H2O Man]

126. Good questions! I like them.

I am impressed that you are able to focus on an important aspect of this set of "problemed areas" in the world community. I believe that you have been pin-pointing some of the economic factors (correct me if I'm wrong) and noting that the United States, like most of the European nations, has a history of colonialism, which continued in the form of an exploitative economic imperialism ..... and there appears, in the larger sense, to be an effort on the part of the USA and European countries to keep the Arab world, the African world, and the majority of the Asian world on a lower econmic (hence socio-political) level.

England has sent troops because Blair has been a poodle for the White House. I feel bad saying that. I had admired him. But, like Colin Powell, he has shown himself willing to prostitute his morals.

Have you watched the movie "Braveheart"? Where the king sends soldiers to their death with absolutely no concern for them as people? But instead sees them as mere cogs? Bush has that same attitude. It's not his family. It's not his friends' children dying in Iraq.

I'm glad to see you participating in this conversation. I've been reading your threads, and enjoy the additional point of view.

[StandUpGuy]

137. Thanks !!

Funnily enough I have Scottish ancestry and my Mother currently lives in Edinburgh, so the Braveheart references are not lost.

Tese threads I have known would eventually get where they needed to get.

Your approach has seemed to let the motivated and active members here on DU string the stories together until the ultimate revelation of the NWO and ruling elite was made.

It is really quite remarkable that it only took a week or so to see what any member of the mainstream media could have done had they been paid as full time investigative journalists.

Its interesting to see the sudden outrage slip quickly to defeatism once the enormity of the task presents itself.

But what else I find interesting , and as I had hoped , the people active in this type of thread have taken a deep breath and tried to refocus and set a new objective. At least I hope that is what I'm seeing.

The current problem I see with the fight against the NWO is the consiacy alien death cult angle.

Lets say you and I tell someone to google NWO or Bilderberg. How many people would get Alex Jones's web page with screaming death cult flying swastikas or other general mayhem sites.

But if you hear it from a trusted source you actually sit up and take notice.

I'm about to reply to Pallas and in that I will talk about the misconception that Americans can't handle the truth.

But in the mean time...

Do you think that there are any competing factions of the NWO, powerful interests opposed to it, or are Americans and the American military just being used as pawns in the grand game.

[H2O Man]

141. Again, you ask

an insightful question.

If we compare this group of "leaders" to a confederacy of organized crime families -- and in many ways, that's just what it is -- then we can appreciate that there is, by their greedy and violent nature, a type of opportunistic competitiveness. And that's why so many world leaders, exactly like organized crime leaders, die an early death.

[StandUpGuy]

112. Dear Pallas

First let me thank you for your very long and well though out reply to my question regarding the next election.

First I'd like to ask if you referred to me as StandBy by mistake, were you trying to imply that I advocate a StandBy and do nothing approach, or were you suggesting that I StandBy and watch what Kerry can accomplish.

I am humbled by the effort you have put in to your replies to my, and others queries. I will try and honor that by doing the same.

After reading your reaction to discovering Paul Wolfowitz membership in Bilderberg, and Bilderberg's relevance in US politics, I am even more certain about one of my thesis in the last question.

Please for one second pause to compare the zeal with which you began your investigation and letter writing campaign with the knowledge of the new world order you had at the time.

Now fast forward to this latest, John Edwards vetting, last month at the Mysterious Bilderberg group.

The Bilderberg group is old news to most of the Western Industrialized nations. But the reasons have nothing to do will a free press in the rest of the world.

At little background.

Anti-Americanism is nothing new for most of the world. It isn't new in the Western world either, however what is new is the western world, the one with a voice, is now openly displaying what was once private Anti-Americanism. The Sting most Americans feel, especially the activist Americans, is a result of feeling their efforts are overlooked by the rest of the world while they concentrate on the negative.
They are right. The Western governments have switched to an openly hostile attitude to the US if not directly through Insults by government officials, but by openly allowing a negative impression of Americans to proliferate in media.

The question is why?

In Canada where I live Anti-Americanism is a sport loved like Hockey.
We have Beer commercials that have Canadian grizzly bears beating up American Bartenders in American Bars.


What we don't have is an interest in Scot or Laci Peterson, Koby Bryant, or the other celebrity distractions to hide damaging news or corporate conspiracy with. So, its You guys.

Look how big and bad Bush is.
Look how stupid American people are.
Look how smart and morally superior we are because we didn't go to the wrong war in Iraq. We went to the right one in Afghanistan.

In Canada there were protest and a palpable fear that we might actually go to war in Iraq. The average citizen was thirsty for information. People at my work would ask me to "Explain it all to them again. This is fascinating." and I dutifully complied excited that I was witnessing an awakening in my country with the full compliance of my Media, who spilled the beans on Bush every night.

It gave me an opportunity to take the nightly news story deeper with those that wanted MORE information.

Then 2 things happened to remove the veils.

1. Canada said No to Iraq and the people reclined into their self congratulatory smugness and no more insight was required.

2. Canada participated in the unlawful overthrow of the democratically elected government of Haiti. I would bet my house that less than one percent of the millions who have seen F 9/11 in this country could even tell where Haiti was or what had occurred. The official story included.

The lessons I learned from this practical experience I must now put toward my knowledge and understanding of the New World Order.

I don't care if its a Satanic Death cult, or a Group of Divine Interventionists running the show, the evidence of the larger conspiracy is overwhelming enough to fight to put a stop to it TODAY. Not to wait till we can prove the Tinfoil hatters that say there are aliens controlling Bush from a forth Dimension.

Like another poster here said, I believe it was Staroute, it makes about as much sense as the official story of life.

You asked me who I think the world’s second superpower is...

I was referring to the previous poster, but Chomsky defines the global masses and public opinion as the second super power.

I only agree in theory. In self contained societies the masses would always hold the balance of power because the masses control the means of production of the tool of oppression. When you have a larger entity providing a disproportionate amount of resources to the ruling elite of a smaller country it shifts the balance of power. The US and Great Britain have long controlled the world this way. Every Imperial Western Power got rich this same way.

I will spend the next 100+ days trying to force everyone here at DU to realize that Bush isn't the problem and more importantly this election isn't the solution.

IT really isn't. Bilderberg and the people behind it are the problem and Kerry not only hasn't addressed it, he has acquiesced to it by getting Edwards vetted.

What we need to do is harness the anger that bush is inspiring in the masses and direct it at the true perpetrators.

By the way check the media ties to Bilderberg.

[Pallas180]

127. THANKS STAND-UP i thought you might not have seen the

reply I made. You are conflicted about your feelings about America and Americans. It shows through your writing. On the one hand you are
reading and thinking with us here on DU and like us and on the other hand you still harbor all the pent up anger and derision you have for
all things America.

Understood.

Your posts are very interesting for a look at how those outside of
America see us.

Years ago it was "The Ugly American" brash and rash ----this view of us now is much much worse. And with good reason.

We are well aware of Bilderberg, One World Government, NOW.

Very very much aware as we went on learning today.
None of us knew, except H20, nor would we have believed it unless we
found it all ourselves. He was very clever that way.

We understand.

What you don't want to accept as far as I can see, is that if John
Kerry announces all of this, he will either be shot, have an airplane accident, or in some other way, be disposed of.


And for what. If he announced it Americans would not believe it.
And he would not be elected.

Let him appeal to what the common man's concerns are, jobs, healthcare, no war - if we are lucky and I think Thank God, we are getting lucky, the CIA is going to take care
of many of the neo-cons in government right now, by exposing them
for treason if not in other ways.

After Kerry is in we can confront him with our knowledge and say:

Remove these people from all government positions. Make it illegal
to belong to this group. They are seditionaries subverting the Constitiution of the United States.

They have to come up with a way to get our country out of the hands
of the financiers and our money back to a gold or silver standard.
They have to deal with this IMF and WTO and FR.

Patience. WE have just learned all of these things in less than one
week. In fact in less than one day.

Thank you for sharing with me STAND UP - (sometimes I'm tired and will
write Stand-by...with no ulterior motive

[Pallas180]

129. AFTER KERRY IS IN WE CAN SAY REMOVE SEDITIONARIES

they are subverting the Constitution of the United States.

After Kerry is in we can confront him with our knowledge and say:

Remove these people from all government positions. Make it illegal
to belong to this group. They are seditionaries subverting the Constitiution of the United States.Bilderberg members, Neo-Cons,
New World Order people.

Kerry or Edwards or whoever have to come up with a way to get our country out of the hands of the financiers and our money back to a gold or silver standard.

They have to deal with this IMF and WTO and FR.

Patience. WE have just learned all of these things in less than one
week. In fact in less than one day.

[StandUpGuy]

152. OK fair enough.

There is one thing missing in this "after the election" talk.

Where is the leverage.

Leverage in our struggle is Key.

Right NOW we are building momentum and creating the leverage with Bush anger.

There are a lot of people that have known about the NWO for along time and have fought successfully to get it as much attention as it already has.

People that are interested in conspiracies have been screaming NWO for years. But to the Average person you are 100% correct, would not believe it coming from the likes of Alex Jones or any other "wild eyes" crazy.

However a trusted source is what people hear.

You yourself digested , comprehended, and agreed with the obvious once presented with the facts in one day.

If Kerry got up in front of the American people, lets says at the debates and laid it all out, apologized to the American people and the world for having PARTICIPATED in the development of a new world order and the support of the on going actions in advancing the NWO agenda. Started naming names and connecting dots that he has as a United states senator has overseen if not directly participated in.

Full mea culpa.

If he pledged to start by locking up every known criminal in this cabal and start investigating everyone else. If he promised to deliver real foreign aid to try and relive suffering aboard while using forfeited profits of the criminal regime to rebuilt the social safety net at home.

Yes he might get shot.
Yes his plane might crash.

But you surmise it would accomplish nothing.

I summarize it would begin to restore dignity to democracy, and light the fire beneath every American that has felt there is something wrong for a long time but weren't sure what it was.

That would be heroic.

[Pallas180]

174. STAND-UP NO.That would be martyrdom. What you suggest

above is not only foolish - (Kerry is no Bill Clinton and could never
pull it off) but it would be total suicide.

If he promised to deliver real foreign aid to try and relive suffering aboard while using forfeited profits of the criminal regime to rebuilt the social safety net at home.<[/i>

Yes he might get shot.Yes his plane might crash.

But you surmise it would accomplish nothing.I summarize it would begin to restore dignity to democracy, and light the fire beneath every American that has felt there is something wrong for a long time but weren't sure what it was.

That would be heroic.

There is nothing wonderful about being a dead hero. Dead heroes cannot lead people.

You don't seem to have an understanding of the American mentality.

When John Kennedy was killed it kicked the wind out of the people of this nation. He was much loved by the people. And hope died.
Optimism died.

Then brother Robert ran for President. Not all, but many Americans came alive again with hope. Hope for fairness, for equality, for justice, for the "right" thing to be done. I assume you know the end of that story.

For Black people the death of Martin Luther King had the same affect.

From Robert Kennedy's death in 1968 to about 1993 all hope for fairness and concern for "the little man, the working man" in the liberal and democratic community was dead.

Bill Clinton did not excite the people until after about a year they
saw that he was really doing the "right" things. Even with a Congress
against him and the entire judicial and republican and media system trying "to do him in"(and now we know they were members of Bildenberg and NWO, but we didn't then) he managed to do many good things for the people of the country, for the economy, for the environment. He also did a couple of not so wonderful things, I think as compromises offered to the rethuglicans.

25 years after an assassination of a beloved figure for the people of the country to recover.

Do you really think Kerry and/or Edwards should put themselves in a position to destroy the hopes of the common man of America for another
25 years?

Without offense meant to you, this is an extremist philosophy, more in line with Wahabbeeism or being a Kamikaze or Palestinian.

We prefer our heroes to live to fight another day.

[RebelYell]

16. Please critique my letter

to Joe Wilson's publisher. Hopefully, they'll forward it on to him.

Let me know if it's too whatever. I'm a passionate writer and wear my heart on my sleeve. Thanks!

July 19, 2004



Mr. Joseph C. Wilson IV
C/O Carol & Graf Publishers
An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc
245 West 17th Street -- 11th Floor
New York, NY 10011

Dear Mr. Wilson,

In light of recent events surrounding the intelligence on the Iraq yellow cake issue and the resulting Robert Novak article naming your wife Valerie as a CIA agent, I would like to inform you of an astounding outpouring of support for you and your wife.

I am a recent poster at Democratic Underground, and the good people there have done a great deal of research regarding this issue. At this moment, there are over 3,000 posts on their board with a treasure trove of information gleaned from various sources. It is by far the most in-depth dissection of current events that I’ve seen on an Internet board.

I understand you are a busy man and couldn’t possibly have the time to read it, but I would like you to know that we are behind you 100% and will do our best to inform the masses of the injustice being levied by the current Administration against you and your wife. We have started a massive letter writing campaign on your behalf, and hopefully, you will see evidence of this undertaking soon. We are banking that there is at least one honest newspaper Editor out there willing will bring these issues to the forefront.

Finally, know that we have reached the end of our collective rope with the unabashed criminal arrogance of the current Administration and will do our best to help America back to being the great country it was four years ago and undo the damage done since George W. Bush took office.

We wish you luck with your endeavors and don’t hesitate to contact us at www.democraticunderground.com if we can assist you in any way. America needs more brave men like you, Mr. Wilson!

Sincerely,

Mrs. Xxxxxxx Xxxxxxxxxx
(Street address)
(City, State, Zip)
(Email address)

[H2O Man]

22. Very nice!

Good job, and on behalf of the rest of our group, thank you!

[Pallas180]

26. Hey H20. Afternoon. ..if I keep finding stuff like this I'm going to

I'm going to find a nice cave to crawl into and hide.

No wonder obl lives in a cave.

Jon Corzine is also a member of Bilderberg.

Bilderberg, old moneyed Europe the true originators of One World Government in the works since 1954.

Below is a list of names USA members, not just participants invited to "interview" but US citizens members since 1982.

The worst conspiracy committed on this country(or maybe the world) that I can think ofby the media. Think about it. This is why the media was cheering the dimson war on and why we don't get "real" news:


"We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto determination practiced in past centuries."


David Rockefeller,Chairman Chase Manhattan Bank (now 88 or 90) founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address before that organization in June of 1991.
____________

Bilderberg from 1982 onwards (USA)
____(function is at last attendance; x st - 10 years to Dec 98; x ad - as of Nov 98)
Eliot, Theodore L, Jr, Deam Emeritus, Fkletcher School of Law, ex US Ambass (x st)
Yost, Casimir A. - Dir, Inst for Study of Diplomacy, Georgetown University, Washington
Jordan Jr, Vernon E; Managing Director, Lazard Frères & Co. LLC
Kissinger, Henry A. Former Secretary of State; Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.
Finley, Murray, Pres, Amalg. Clothing & Textile Workers Union, AFL-CIO, CLC
Finney, Paul B, Editorial Director, Thomson Magazines
Getchell, Charles, Lawyer, private trustee; rapporteur Bilderberg
MacLaury, Bruce K, President, Brookings Institution
Taylor, Arthur R, Managing Aprtner, Arthur Taylor & Co.
Williams, Joseph H, Chair & CEO, The Williams Companies
Bennett, Jack F, Dir & Snr VP, Exxon, former Undersecretary at the Treasury (x st)
Lord, Winston, Assistant Secretary for East Asian and Pacific Affairs
Dam, Kenneth W. Max Pam Prof Law, Univ. of Chicago; ex-Dep Sec State, ex-IBM (x st)
Mathias, Charles McC, Ptnr, Jones Day Reavis & Pogue; ex-Senator, Rep, Maryland (x st)
Ridgway, Rozanne L, Co Chair, Atlantic Council of the US, ex-Asst Sec of State, (x st)
Sheinkman, Jack, Chair. Amalg. Bank, ex-Pres. Amalg. Textile Workers Union AFL-CIO
Whitehead, John C. Former Deputy Secretary of State (x st)
Williams, Lynn R, International President, United Steel Workers of America (x st)
Wolfensohn, James D. President, The World Bank; ex-Pres James D Wolfensohn Inc (IN)
Allaire, Paul A., Chairman of the Board and CEO, Xerox Corporation
Rockefeller, Sharon Percy. President and CEO, WETA-TV and FM (PBS.) (x st)
Corzine, Jon S. Chairman and CEO, Goldman Sachs & Co.
Gerstner, Jr, Louis V. Chairman, IBM Corporation.
Holbrooke, Richard C. ex-Asst Secretary for Eur & Can Affairs, Ambass to UN (desig.)
Wolfowitz, Paul, Dean, Nitze School, John Hopkins Univ.; ex-Under Sec. of Defense
Ball, George W, Former Under-Secretary of State (x ad)
Bundy, William P., Former Editor, Foreign Affairs
Heinz, Henry J II, Chair, HJ Heinz Co, Pres, American Friends of Bilderberg (x ad)
Rockefeller, David. Chairman, Chase Manhattan Bank International Advisory Cttee.
Victor, Alice, Executive Assistant, Rockefeller Financial Services, Inc.
Winthrop, Grant F, Partner, Milbank (Wilson) Winthrop & Co.
Andreas, Dwayne O., Chairman, Archer-Daniels-Midland Company
Armacost, Michael H., Pres. Brookings Inst.
Bartley, Robert L., Editor, Wall Street Journal
Bayh, Evan - Senator (D. Indiana).
Bennet, Douglas J., Assistant Secretary of State for International Organizations
Bentsen, Lloyd M., Partner Verner Liipfert Bernhard McPherson & Hand; ex-Treas. Sec.
Berger, Samuel R., Asst to President, National Security Affairs
Bergh, Maarten A. van den, Group MD, Royal Dutch Shell
Bergsten, C. Fred, Director, Institute For International Economics
Bernstein, Richard, Book critic, New York Times
Billington, James H, Librarian of Congress
Black, Shirley Temple, Foreign Affairs Officer, Dept of State; frmr. Ambass to Ghana
Blackwill, Robert D, Lecturer in Public Policy, Harvard; fmr. member Nat. Sec. Council
Boskin, Michael J, Chairman, President's Council of Economic Advisers
Boyd, Charles G. - Executive Director, National Security Study Group
Brady, Nicholas F, Treasury Sec; ex-Dillon Read; ex Senator, Republican, New Jersey
Bryan, John H., Chairman and CEO, Sara Lee Corporation.
Buckley, Jr., William F., Editor-at-Large, National Review
Chafee, John H, US Senator (Republican, Rhode Island)
Clinton, Bill D, Governor Arkansas
Corrigan, E. Gerald, Former President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York
Cortines, Ramon C, Chancellor, New York City Board of Education
Dallara, Charles H, Assistant Secretary for International Affairs
Davis, Lynn E., Undersec. for Arms Control and Intl Security Affairs Dept of State
Day, Robert A, Chairman, Trust Company of the West
Deutch, John M. - Prof. MIT, ex-DG. CIA; ex-Deputy Secretary of Defence
Dodd, Chistopher J. - Senator (D. Connecticut).
Donilon, Thomas E; Senior Vice-President, General Counsel and Secretary, FannieMae
Dyson, Esther; Chairman, EDventure Holdings Inc.
Espy, Mike, Secretary of Agriculture
Esrey, William T, Chairman and CEO, Sprint
Evans, Daniel J, US Senator, Republican, Washington State
Feinstein, Diane, Former Mayor of San Francisco
Feldstein, Martin S. - President and CEO, National Bureau of Economic Research Inc.
Fischer, Stanley - First Deputy Managing Director, International Monetary Fund (IN)
Florio, James J, Former Governor of New Jersey
Foley, Thomas S., Partner Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Field, ex-Spkr, House of Reps (D)
Forester, Lynn - President and CEO, FirstMark Holdings Inc.
Freeman, Jr., Chas. W.,ex-Asst Sec of Defense for Intl Security; Chair, Projects Intern.
Friedman, Stephen, Chairman, Goldman Sachs & Co.
Friedman, Thomas L., Foreign Affairs columnist New York Times
Furlaud, Richard M, Director, Bristol-Myers Squibb Co.
Gadiesh, Orit Chairman of the Board, Bain & Company Inc.
Galvin, John R, Prof Nat. Sec. Studies, West Point; ex-Supr Allied Comndr Eur (SHAPE)
Gergen, David R., Fmr Advisor to Clinton and Reagan; Fellow Aspen Institute
Gigot, Paul, Washington Columnist, The Wall Street Journal
Graham, Donald E. - Publisher, The Washington Post
Graham, Katherine, Chair, Exec Committee, Washington Post Co
Greenberg, Maurice R, Chair, American International Group Inc.
Grossman, Marc - Assistant Secretary, US Department of State
Grunwald, Henry A, US Ambass, to Austria; fmr Editor-in-Chief, Time Inc
Habib, Philip C, snr. res. fellow, Hoover Institution; former Under-Secretary of State
Hagel, Chuck - Senator (R. Nebraska)
Hamilton, Lee H. Congressman (D, Indiana.)
Hoagland, Jim - Associate Editor, The Washington Post
Hoge, Jr., James F. - Editor, Foreign Affairs
House, Karen Elliott, VP International, Dow Jones & Co.; ex-For Ed, Wall St Journal
Hunter, Robert E, US representative to NATO
Hutchison, Kay Bailey; Senator (Republican, Texas)
Hyland, William G, Editor, Foreign Affairs
Jennings, Peter, Anchor and Senior Editor, ABC News: World News Tonight
Johnson, James A; Chairman and CEO, Johnson Capital Partners
Johnston, J Bennett, Senator, Democrat, Louisiana
Kann, Peter R., Chair, CEO Dow Jones & Co., publisher Wall Street Journal
Kassebaum, Nancy Landon, US Senator, Republican, Kansas
Kearns, David T, Chairman, Xerox Corporation
Kendall, Donald M, former Chairman & CEO, Pepsico Inc.
Kimmet, Robert M, MD. Lehmann Bros, Fmr Undersecretary of State for Pol. Affairs
Kirkland, Lane, President, AFL-CIO (Amer Fed of Labor & Congress of Industrial Orgs)
Kravis, Henry R. - Founding Partner, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.
Kristol, William, Chair, Project for the Republican Future
Krogh, Peter F, Dean School of Foreign Service, Georgetown University
Kuczynski, Pedro Pablo, Co-Chair, First Boston International
Leschly, Jan - CEO SmithKline Beecham plc.
Lewis, Drew, Chairman, Union Pacific Corporation
Lewis, Samuel W, Director Policy Planning Staff, Department of State
Lewis, William W. Director of McKinsey Global Institute, McKinsey & Company.
McDonough, William J. President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York.
McGinn, Richard A. - Chairman and CEO, Lucent Technologies
McHenry, Donald F., Research Prof of Diplomacy and Intl Affairs, Georgetown Univ.
McLaughlin, David, President the Aspen Institute
Martin, Philip L, Prof of Agricultural Economics, Univ of California at Davis
Mathews, Jessica Tuchman - President, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
Matlock, Jack F Jr, Former U.S. Ambassador to the U.S.S.R.
Maynes, Charles William, Editor Foreign Policy
Murdoch, Rupert, Chairman, News America Publishing (Australian)
Nunn, Sam. Former Senator (D, Georgia.)
Nye, Joseph S Jr, Chairman, National Intelligence Council
Odom, William E, Dir. of Nat. Sec. Studies, Hudson Inst; ex-Dir National Security Agency
Page, Jr., John M. Chief Economist, Mid. East and Nth. Africa Region, World Bank.
Pell, Claiborne, US Senator, Democrat, Rhode Island
Penzias, Arno A., VP Research AT&T Bell Labs
Perry, William J., Secretary of Defense
Petersen, Donald E, Chairman, Ford Motor Company
Pickering, Thomas R, US Ambassador to Russia
Podhoretz, Norman, Editor, Commentary
Powell, Colin L. Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Pressler, Larry, Senator, Republican, South Dakota
Prestowitz, Clyde V. - President, Economic Strategy Institute
Quandt, William B, senior fellow, The Brookings Institute
Rattner, Steven - Deputy Executive, Lazard Freres & Co., LLC
Reed, John S, Chairman, Citicorp
Rhodes, William R. - Vice Chairman, CitiBank, N.A.
Richardson, Bill - Secretary of Energy
Robinson, James D III, Chair & CEO, American Express Company
Sanford, Charles S Jr, Chairman, Bankers Trust Company
Scalapino, Robert A, Robson Res Prof of Government, Emeritus, Univ Ca, Berkeley
Scowcroft, Brent, Former Asst to the President for National Security Affairs
Shad, John SR, Director and Philanthropist
Shapiro, Robert B. - Chairman and CEO, Monsanto Company
Shelton, Sally A, snr. fellow, georgetown University; ex Amnbassador to Grenada, E-Carib
Sick, Gary G, Visitng Scholar, Research Institute for Internl. Change, Columbia Univ.
Simons, Thomas W Jr, Ambassador to Poland
Soderberg, Nancy E., Dep Asst to President for National Security Affairs
Soros, George; Chairman, Soros Fund Management
Stahl, Lesley R. National Affairs Correspondent, CBS News.
Steinberg, James B; Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
Stephanopoulos, George Prof., Columbia Univ., ex-Advisor to President for Pol. & Strat
Strauss, Robert S, US Ambassador to the Russian Federation
Summers, Lawrence H. - Deputy Secretary for Intl Affairs, US Dept of the Treasury
Tarullo, Daniel K; Visiting Professor of Law, Georgetown University Law Center
Thoman, G. Richard - President and CEO, Xerox Corporation
Thornton, John L. - President and co-COO, Goldman Sachs Group, Inc
Trotman, Alexander J., Chairman, Ford Motor Company
Tyson, Laura d'Andrea - Dean, Haas School of Business, Univ.of California at Berkeley
Vink, Lodewijk J.R. de - President and CEO, Warner Lambert Company
Vogel, Ezra F. Henry Ford II Professor of Social Sciences, Harvard University
Volcker, Paul A, Chairman, BT Wolfensohn; ex-Chair, Board of Federal Reserve System
Weiss, Stanley A. Chairman, Business Executives for National Security, Inc.
Whitman, Christine Todd - Governor of New Jersey
Wilbur, Brayton Jr, President & CEO, Wilbur-Ellis Company
Wilder, Lawrence Douglas, Governor of Virginia
Wisner, Frank G, Under-Secretary for Policy, Department of Defense
Wriston, Walter B, Former Chairman, Citibank
Zoellick, Robert B, Counselor & Under-Secretary (designate) for Economic Affairs
Zuckerman, Mortimer B, Editor, US News and World Report





BILL KRISTOL AUTHOR OF PNAC ORIGINAL WHITE PAPER

[Pallas180]

27. TRAITOROUS GOAL: NEW WORLD ORDER=PNAC=ONE WORLD GOVT.

John F. Kennedy took office in 1960 after General Dwight Ike Eisenhower's 8 year term from 1953. After WW2, the OSS=CIA brought spies to the US from Nazi Germany and adopted their methods under the
Dulles Brothers, Casey and a succession of other CIA directors. Some
much of our government and foreign policy was based on Fascism from 1945 on.It has been quietly been there for decades with a plan for world domination that was hatched sometime between 1945/50 and 1960 when JOHN F. KENNEDY SAID:


"The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office I must inform the Citizen of his plight."
~ President John F. Kennedy -

John F. Kennedy was assassinated 10 days later
______________________________________________________________

"Yes, many people will die when the New World Order is established, but it will be a much better world for those who survive".
~ Henry Kissinger (War Criminal)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
~ David (name edited by me)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The drive of the (name edited) and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."
~ Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets
_____________________________________________________________________
Bush 1,Chief of CIA, Pres. of Council on Foreign Relations, member of the Trilateral Commission a major designer of the plan for the New World Order established 1973 but not as old as the Bilderberg Group established in 1954 and apparently to what JFK referred just before his death in the quote above.
__________________________________________________________________
(This is a plan that has been in the works since the end of WW2.
The New World Order, partly authored by Kissinger who had been connected to prominent people in the US govt. in the 40's. )

"Today Americans would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their World Government."

- Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberger meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992.

Circa time when PNAC first written for Bush 1
______________________________________________________________________


Bush Sr. makes the New World Order speech to a joint session of Congress--also layed down our new Persian Gulf/Iraq policy:

http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu/research/papers/1990/900911 ...

We stand today at a unique and extraordinary moment. The crisis in the Persian Gulf, as grave as it is, also offers a rare opportunity to move toward an historic period of cooperation. Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective -- a new world order -- can emerge: a new era -- freer from the threat of terror, stronger in the pursuit of justice, and more secure in the quest for peace. An era in which the nations of the world, East and West, North and South, can prosper and live in harmony. A hundred generations have searched for this elusive path to peace, while a thousand wars raged across the span of human endeavor. Today that new world is struggling to be born, a world quite different from the one we've known. A world where the rule of law supplants the rule of the jungle. A world in which nations recognize the shared responsibility for freedom and justice. A world where the strong respect the rights of the weak.

This is the vision that I shared with President Gorbachev in Helsinki. HE AND OTHER LEADERS FROM EUROPE, THE GULF, AND AROUND THE WORLD UNDERSTAND THAT HOW WE MANAGE THIS CRISIS TODAY COULD SHAPE THE FUTURE FOR GENERATIONS TO COME.b]
Quotes which will not make you feel all warm and fuzzy.



Editor's note: 1000 years of the Third Reich anyone?
It should be kept in mind that both father Prescott Bush and Prescott's father-in-law Herbert Walker supported Hitler's Third Reich and its philosophy through their bank, financing Hitler's armament, and the Bush family fortune was built on this activity


_________________________________________________

"We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of our great nation."
~ George W. Bush


----------------------------------------------------------------------


"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just
as long as I'm the dictator"
~ George W. Bush


----------------------------------------------------------------------
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
~ George W. Bush
_____________________________________________________________________

[kohodog]

75. The deficit and the destruction of the middle class

are part of this. The huge tax giveaways to the rich, Corporate welfare and the consequences of a runaway deficit will destroy the middle class as we know it. Already the mojority of "new" jobs are low wage service jobs. There is tremendous unemployment and under employment. As the middle class slides downward they consolidate power. But they aren't concerned with the plight of the citizens. It is a global effort. Oppression and slavery will be the result, not true democracy.

The contradiction I see for someone like W is his religious belief system. I understand that he basically doesn't give a rats ass because he's expecting Jesus to come get him. Sop is he truely a puppet with the real power brokers behind him making the decisions?

[Pallas180]

90. KOHO your first paragraph is absolutely correct. on the 2nd para

who the hell cares about his religious belief.

He appears to worship Satan.

And maybe the Pope is right!

[Wind Dancer]

29. I thought it interesting

that John Edwards attended this year's Bilderberg meeting. I don't think it's a coincidence Kerry selected him for a VP candidate.

[sadiesworld]

119. Bilderberg was Edwards' rite of initiation.

[H2O Man]

31. It kind of makes

the old "skull & bones" seem like a fraternity, doesn't it? Maybe the youngsters who do there are let into the real power elite, eh? My, we've come darned near full circle! On the first thread, when I spoke of a "power elite" -- or Churchill's "high cabal" -- someone responded by saying I was full of, uh, foolishness, and that there was no such thing.

[shraby]

37. Have we discovered the power

behind the throne in Bilderberg?


edited for spelline

[Jose Diablo]

55. Is and always has been ...bankers

Red Shield aka Rothchild

[calimary]

238. FASCINATING! I was reading about this, here, last night, and this morning,

I wake up and my husband turns on TV to the History Channel - and guess what they're talking about? Secret societies: 1) Skull & Bones, 2) the Council on Foreign Relations, 3) the Trilateral Commission, and 4) Bilderberg.

Amazing. Many of the same people in all these groups. Bilderberg named for the Hotel Bilderberg in Europe where the first meetings took place decades ago. David Rockefeller prominent in most of them. All members moving in secrecy, guarded by military and paramilitary. They fold in a few media mavens - Peter Jennings, Katherine "Washington Post" Graham, more or less to ensure their silence through their most flattering allowed entry into this prestigious holy of holies. Nobody knows. Nobody talks. Nobody reports. What a coinkidink...

[Me.]

38. Do you suppose that as he is responsible for so much harm....

that a "quiet" revenge will be enacted upon Novakula? I know its been said that he has to live with himself, but frankly that is not enough. He seems self-contented to me and as long as his pocketbook is filled and he doesn't have to pay taxes, he doesn't seem to have any cares. A life (lives) was lost for heaven's sake. Will he truly be allowed to skate away with this?

[Pallas180]

39. Cheezus Christ. Stop being so saturnine. Any ideas how to counter?

I think it's too late.Do you?

They have private armies protecting them.
They have the money
They have the Weapons and air power and sea power

Jesus Christ.

Even if mobs wanted to get at them and tear them apart it would be impossible.

Question: is this what obl is up to? does he know and is trying to
destroy them -

or is he one of them?


How symbolic. The World Trade Center wasn't an attack on America.

It was an attack on the planned One World Government propounded by
Nelson and David Rockefeller.

The World Trade Center was Nelson Rockefeller's monument to himself. He built it. And I'm going to remind you again if you read those quotes, Kissinger originally worked for Nelson Rockefeller and got into government through Nelson

Jesus Chritst and holy moley.

[shraby]

46. Here are the more notable players

that I know of today. I wondered where Bill Clinton came from when he ran for President..he was a virtual unknown..now I know.

Bayh, Evan - Senator (D. Indiana).
Berger, Samuel R., Asst to President, National Security Affairs
Buckley, Jr., William F., Editor-at-Large, National Review
Chafee, John H, US Senator (Republican, Rhode Island)
Clinton, Bill D, Governor Arkansas
Dodd, Chistopher J. - Senator (D. Connecticut).
Feinstein, Diane, Former Mayor of San Francisco
Gergen, David R., Fmr Advisor to Clinton and Reagan; Fellow Aspen Institute
Hagel, Chuck - Senator (R. Nebraska)
Hamilton, Lee H. Congressman (D, Indiana.)
Kissinger, Henry A. Former Secretary of State; Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.
Kristol, William, Chair, Project for the Republican Future
Nunn, Sam. Former Senator (D, Georgia.)
Nye, Joseph S Jr, Chairman, National Intelligence Council
Powell, Colin L. Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Rockefeller, David. Chairman, Chase Manhattan Bank International Advisory Cttee.
Scowcroft, Brent, Former Asst to the President for National Security Affairs
Soros, George; Chairman, Soros Fund Management
Stahl, Lesley R. National Affairs Correspondent, CBS News.
Wolfowitz, Paul, Dean, Nitze School, John Hopkins Univ.; ex-Under Sec. of Defense

[Tellurian]

53. Bill Clinton may have been unknown to many overall..

But in important circles, he was a rising star. He was a DeMolay recipient of a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford in England. Also the benevolent patronage of Pam Harriman standing in his corner..yes, the wife of Averell Harriman. Although, I've provided a riskaay link to the Harriman influence, nevertheless, it's all true..

[H2O Man]

56. On the second thread,

(i believe it was) I used Mr. Harriman as the best example of a person within the power elite who, by choice or by appointment, made a habit of going back & forth, into the public arena, and then back behind the scenes, which is rare for someone in his position. The only one who is close in this generation is James Baker.

[Tellurian]

60. Also, it was the Harrimans who gave G H W Bush his first job...

when no one else would.

[Pallas180]

88. How disappointing. We lived in the Harriman neck of the woods &

my father adored him and gave time to some of Harriman's charities
for orphans.

Poor Pop. He also liked Nixon. Just bad taste as far as politicians

[calimary]

184. Wasn't Harriman related to (or maybe he WAS) the Harriman of

Brown Brothers Harriman, the bankers/brokers that Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker were involved with - they who helped launder money for Hitler via I.G. Farben?

[Pallas180]

189. CALIMARY. Yup one and the same. n/t

.

[Pallas180]

64. SHRABY some of them are just invirtees, to be looked over and not members.

Edwards was just invited to come and talk to them.

I gather Clinton was also, but is not a member.

[Pallas180]

66. Maybe we should ask politicians do they subscribe to NWO or 1 World Govt b

before we support their candidacy or elect them

Openly ASK THEM IN FRONT OF THE WORLD

AND THEN THE NEXT QUESTION FROM US WOULD BE

AND EXACTLY WHAT ARE THE GOALS OF NWO OR 1 WORLD GOVT.

HOW WILL IT GOVERN AND WHAT WILL IT DO FOR THE PEOPLE?????

If it's not too late, that might be the way to expose it.

[shraby]

67. We'd probably get lies if we asked.

We need to get Kerry elected then be loud and vociferous when he does his selecting for his cabinet and underlings when we see any of these traitors in his list.

[Pallas180]

86. SCHRABY - Heinz is on the list, Kerry's wife in charge of that company

now.

That leaves us with a big question mark,plus the fact that
Kerry is a product of Skull and Bones which has produced many on that list...and your current dumbass in DC

[shraby]

106. I realize that..but he's

what we have. We need to contact Bev and tell her to push for provisional ballots at all polls in case of a massive power failure. In light of the last one we had in the east, maybe she can get some traction on it. A big power failure would close down polls.
Know how to contact Bev?

[Pallas180]

SCHRABY, she posts on DU, but google & find her website

very good idea about paper ballots if it's not too late.

[Pallas180]

133. SCHRABY, she posts on DU, but google & find her website

very good idea about paper ballots if it's not too late.

[shraby]

150. You found my website?

[bobbieinok]

122. I don't think so........I think her only connection is thru her stock

[Pallas180]

188. Hagel - Diebold - who "fixed" the voting machines for us ? sweet.

(:

[Wind Dancer]

50. World Trade Center

An interesting read about Minoru Yamasaki, architect of the WTC and a favorite designer of OBL's family.

-snip-

For Yamasaki, an architect with a keen mathematical mind and a taste for ornamental pattern-work, this brush with the intricate geometries of Islamic architecture was inspiring, and he began to incorporate arabesques and arches into his work. For the next 12 to 15 years he played with Islamic forms in projects as diverse as the Federal Science Pavilion at the Seattle World's Fair, the Eastern Airlines Terminal at Logan Airport, and even the North Shore Congregation Israel in Glencoe, Ill.

-snip-

Yamasaki received the World Trade Center commission the year after the Dhahran Airport was completed. Yamasaki described its plaza as "a mecca, a great relief from the narrow streets and sidewalks of the surrounding Wall Street area." True to his word, Yamasaki replicated the plan of Mecca's courtyard by creating a vast delineated square, isolated from the city's bustle by low colonnaded structures and capped by two enormous, perfectly square towers—minarets, really. Yamasaki's courtyard mimicked Mecca's assemblage of holy sites—the Qa'ba (a cube) containing the sacred stone, what some believe is the burial site of Hagar and Ishmael, and the holy spring—by including several sculptural features, including a fountain, and he anchored the composition in a radial circular pattern, similar to Mecca's.

-snip-

As a scion of the Binladin contracting firm, destined to inherit some portion of its vast operations, Osama Bin Laden would certainly have been aware of Yamasaki's Saudi Arabian projects. Indeed, his family may have built them. (Minoru Yamasaki Associates won't say, but the Binladens were involved with almost all royal construction.) While Osama was in college in the mid-'70s, Yamasaki was designing his second generation of Saudi work, and the World Trade Center—then the tallest building in the world times two—came to completion in New York. This period was the high-water mark both for Yamasaki's world reputation and for the Saudis' national construction plan—which in Saudi Arabia must have brought a heightened sense of importance to the World Trade Center.

Having rejected modernism and the Saudi royal family, it's no surprise that Bin Laden would turn against Yamasaki's work in particular. He must have seen how Yamasaki had clothed the World Trade Center, a monument of Western capitalism, in the raiment of Islamic spirituality. Such mixing of the sacred and the profane is old hat to us—after all, Cass Gilbert's classic Woolworth Building, dubbed the Cathedral to Commerce, is decked out in extravagant Gothic regalia. But to someone who wants to purify Islam from commercialism, Yamasaki's implicit Mosque to Commerce would be anathema. To Bin Laden, the World Trade Center was probably not only an international landmark but also a false idol.

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2060207

[Jose Diablo]

62. They cannot be beaten

All that can be hoped for is to roll back the advances they have made since the 50's.

It is a balancing act. Each side needs the other. Their latest push for dominance will be their undoing of all their 'advances' for the last 50 years because they can no more win totally than we can win totally.

They are the 'owners' in the traditional sense and we are the 'workers'. They believe they can subjugate a world of workers in slavery conditions. That never works. Didn't work in the past, it will not work this time, because....there are more of us than them.

There is a statue of two men in loin cloths locked in a death struggle. I do not know who made it, Rodin maybe? But thats the situation. An eternal struggle.

[Pallas180]

68. It has worked in China, and one of the founders of 1WG expounded

on it....D. R., what a wonderful example.....


Even if we discarded the ones who are visible, the moles in the
government, this one, would still be there and raise up again, just
as Libby and Wolfowitz and the others have been bureaucrats in govt
or in universities for years.

BTW , Libby is on the list. not by the name Scooter...First name C.

It sucks.

[shraby]

69. But, now that we're aware

maybe we can have some influence on who gets into positions of power in the government. If any known ones come up it's time to push them back out, and keep a watch out for new ones.

[kohodog]

77. H20 for president!

[Pallas180]

89. SCHRABY FOR PRESIDENT - h20 wants to be cia

[kohodog]

101. There won't be CIA

In our administration!

Maybe he'd consider a post in the Department of Peace though.

[shraby]

109. I'd take it!

And just let anyone try to bribe me..he'd be put in jail before he could state his full name.

[H2O Man]

132. Pallas, Pallas, Pallas.....

I would far rather be Jerry Lewis's character in a remake of the nutty professor .... much, much rather that fate .....

[H2O Man]

131. H2O for a peaceful retirement!

The only rose garden I care for is, well, the one I care for on my lawn. I'm an old man who enjoys solitude. Last year, it was suggested to me that I take a look at DU .... and I enjoyed a few exchanges with good and decent people ..... but mainly enjoyed solitude on here, too! You people are keeping me busy.

I need to spend more time tending my garden. However, I think I'll continue with this until the election, at least.

One of my favorite poems is by Kahlil Gibran:

I came to say a word and I shall say it now. But if death prevents me, it will be said by Tomorrow, for Tomorrow never leaves a secret in the book of Eternity.

I came to live in the glory of Love and the light of Beauty, which are the reflections of God. I am here, living, and I cannot be exiled from the domain of life, for through my living word I will live in death.

I came here to be for all and with all, and what I do today in my solitude will be echoed Tomorrow by the multitude.

What I say now with one heart will be said Tomorrow by thousands of hearts.

[Pallas180]

136. H20 ooooh Kahlil Gibran is my favorite-and that is so beautiful - I think

I'll make that my poem. It used to be Robert Frost's "The Road Not
Taken", but now it shall be that one.

H20, I have a beautiful rose garden, 2 as a matter of fact, and bouganvillieau .................which have not been watered or trimmed
because I am here with you and all my other wonderful brainy friends
on these threads.

Will you help with my idea which I have proposed on post 115 near the
bottom of this thread?

I think we have an opportunity to have massive exposure here,,if you
will write something succinct and with all the clarity you always
muster.

Will you?

Will you?

[H2O Man]

144. And how could I say "no"?

At this point, on thread #9, say "no" to my good friend?

[kohodog]

145. My (13yr old )daughter is reading Sidhartha but as for me...

I've been scouring Rumi to find a gem to post!

His words amaze me, considering they were written over 900 years ago. But if you take the time to search it out you will find that the human condition hasn't changed much over time, and many of his thoughts are revelant to today's discussion.

[H2O Man]

156. The human condition has not changed at all.

We merely live in nicer houses, wear a different style clothes, have different technology, and as a result have sped up the pace of our lives. But the human machine remains the same, the Hindu chariot with the same horses pulling in different directions, the same emotions and passions.

The single most important, and potentially revolutionary venture that any of us can undertake, is being a parent. I'm impressed with what your daughter is reading. She has obviously had a good role model.

[kohodog]

164. h20,

it is certainly unfortunate that the human condition has
changed so little over all these years, yet some of us are compelled to keep trying! And wow, how much we have to do!

[Jose Diablo]

107. The PRC will not endure with slave labor

it will crumble as all societies that depend on slave labot do. Actually, if we had not started to buy products from PRC, it would have already crumbled. Who can we thank for this? Why Kissinger and Nixon. Take a bow Kissinger. We need to send Kissinger on a fact finding mission to Brussels.

[kohodog]

165. sorry jelly, but

Fuck kissinger. I met him once and i can say I have perhaps never met a more egotistical asshole.

(and to think my last posts were on Rumi and Sidhartha)! The human condition hasn't changed one bit.

[Jose Diablo]

180. No need to apologise

Isn't the Hague in Brussels?

[Tellurian]

59. Pallas, don't be discouraged...

This enigma has been going on for generations. Everyone has the same feeling of helplessness the first time they see the list...

Many fake denial, choosing the euphemism 'It's Tin Foil Hat' time...
It's not, it's reality time..

Now when you hear the words 'Ruling Elites' your mind will invariably revert back to the list, you've so kindly posted.

[shraby]

63. Tellurian

Is there anything that can be done, or are we so screwed that we can just ride the waves?

[H2O Man]

70. What? Huh?

Wait a minute ... hey, aren't we Americans? People with a deep faith in the Bill of Rights? The country that defeated the Nazis?

Take a close look at cheney: he's Simon Bar Sinister from the old Underdog cartoon. Rove is the Pilsbury Dough Boy.George bush is george bush.

It's important not to let your mind play tricks on you. The minute you begin to think these three stooges are a force that no one can stand up against, your mind is playing a trick on you.

Why is Fitgerald able to get to the bottom of the Plame leak? Because those jackasses had more than 8 people involved in the crime. You can't have more than 8 people involved in a single discussion at a conference; that's why you break into groups for activities including discussions.

The groups you mention have 500+ members at the "top level" and you think they can't be stopped?

Our minds play tricks on us when we get tired. Several people on here have been putting in long hard hours of research and discussion. It's important to take a rest and relax every so often. Stay with the threads here, but catch your breath.

[shraby]

72. Sorry, but at first

breath it seemed overwhelming. The letter campaign is a good strategy, then we have to devise a next step. With people like Fitzgerald and I'm sure there are more in positions to help, we might have a chance to clean house. If Fitzgerald has the goods and uses them, it will be like cleaning with a vaccuum instead of a broom.

Kerry if we can get him elected, hopefully will be our dust buster. He can open up records and papers that need to see the light of day, as well as turn back a lot of the damage that Bush has done. With a new Attorney General, we can get info from Sibel Edmonds and from other stuff he has put the stamp of secret on.

We can insist on a new 9/11 commission and a new torture investigation for starters.

[Pallas180]

93. I dont trust Kerry now. I think he may continue 1 WG in a gentler way

than blunderbuss chimp

[Pallas180]

190. Schraby - Hamilton who I thought was an honest man is on list &

co chair of the 9/11 commission

[TacticalPeek]

191. In almost everyone, honesty finds a limit.

Some people think Hamilton helped keep Poppy out of Iran/Contra, and thought "here we go again" when he was named to head 911 commission as dem co-chair.

[Pallas180]

196. HI TP. Too bad he helped pappy out. just a den of vipers.

[Pallas180]

92. Ahem- H20 - are you pointing your Fedora at me? smile, barely.

but I have an idea of what can be done.

And you have to put your writing skills to work.

[Pallas180]

91. THANKS TELL. I HAVE AN IDEA. IT MEANS WORK FOR H20

i'LL Post it on the bottom

[Pallas180]

78. HEINZ OF HEINZ KETCHUP IS ON THE LIST. we need to

ask our democratic nominee a couple of questions.

Jesus - some choice we've got...Genghis Khan or Attilla the Hun

Nice .

[shraby]

85. You've got to remember,

Heinz isn't in play now, Theresa is..she might be a different colored cat.

[KoKo]

121. Ran into person at Bush/NC Protest and she said when John Heinz's

plane went down in that schoolyard she was living in PA and the reports were...it was suspicious. There was "pilot error."

We know that "Wellstone" had "pilot error." And...reporter Cokie Roberts father died in an Alaskan plane crash and his body was never found...Cokie's family was Dem but look at her now!

I also remember when Heinz's plane crashed, (was living in NJ and not PA like the woman I met at Bush protest...but I, too, heard that it was very odd that plane crash.

I think I'll do a Google tonight and refresh my memory. It was a long time ago....but given what we know today..it might be worth a second look.

[Pallas180]

82. George Stephanopoulos, the lil plick, and Peter Jennings.

(:

[shraby]

84. Nice to know the players, huh?

[RebelYell]

114. It's in the mail

I tweeked it with some of Pallas's suggestions.

[Pallas180]

124. ((((REBEL YELL))) Don't be surpirsed if we hear from him online but we

might not know who he is.

[Pallas180]

24. REBEL YELL - pretty durn nice but how bout some editing like so:

Reb, my suggestions are in caps so that you can see them.


In light of recent events surrounding the "intelligence" on the Iraq yellow cake issue and the resulting Robert Novak article naming your wife Valerie as a CIA agent, I would like to inform you of an astounding outpouring of support for you and your wife.

I am a recent poster at Democratic Underground, and the good people there have FORMED A THINK TANK AND done a great deal of research regarding THE issue OF WHY THIS ADMINISTRATION WOULD FIND IT DESIROUS TO "OUT" YOUR WIFE AND ATTACK YOUR CREDIBILITY. At this moment, there are over 3,000 posts on their board with a treasure trove of information gleaned from various MEDIA sources. It is by far the most in-depth dissection of THE events SURROUNDING AND LEADING TO THE TREASONOUS ACT BY THE ADMINISTRATION that I’ve seen on an Internet board.

I understand you are a busy man BUT WE HOPE YOU CAN FIND THE time to read it. (BUT TAKEN OUT) I would like you to know that we are behind you 100% and ARE doING our best to inform the MEDIA & CONGRESS of the injustice being levied by the current Administration against you and your wife AND THE POSSIBLE REASONS. We have started a massive letter writing campaign (OUTon your behalf), and hopefully, you will see evidence of this undertaking soon. We are banking that there is at least one honest newspaper Editor out there willing TO BE THE WOODWARD/BERNSTEIN OF OUR GENERATION WHO WOULD bring these issues to the forefront.

Finally, know that we have reached the end of our collective rope with the unabashed criminal arrogance of the current Administration and will do our best to help America back to being the great country it was four years ago and undo the damage done since George W. Bush took office.

We wish you luck with your endeavors and don’t hesitate to contact us at www.democraticunderground.com, GENERAL DISCUSSION, PLAME INDICTMENTS-HIGH CRIMES & MISDEMEANORS THREADS if we can assist you in any way. WE ARE HOPING THAT THROUGH THE GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION OF YOUR WIFE'S "OUTING", THE WHOLE CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE OF THIS ADMINISTRATION WILL COME TO LIGHT AND AMERICA WILL BE RELIEVED OF THIS MISADMINISTRATION AND ITS GOALS OF WORLD DOMINION AND ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT.

WE ADMIRE YOUR COURAGE AND BRAVERY, Mr. Wilson! YOU'RE A HERO.

Sincerely,

Mrs. Xxxxxxx Xxxxxxxxxx
(Street address)
(City, State, Zip)
(Email address)

wHAT DO YOU THINK REB?

REB - DO YOU WANT TO PUT IN CITIZENS FOR UNITED STATES RETURN TO HONESTY ON SIGNATURE? c.R.u.s.H. ?

[Wilber_Stool]

43. A+____n/t

[kohodog]

25. Let's suppose for a moment that indictments are forthcoming

And even that Cheney is indicted.

It is not fair to assume that the nature of Plame's work will be exposed. In fact it is likely that there will be a slap on the wrist and Cheney won't run for VP.

So let's think about who does know the truth and how it can be brought to light.

Tenet. Is he angry enough to spill the beans? I doubt it.
Pavitt? I don't really know too much about him except I heard he ran the Plame operation.

One who surely knows alot is none other than Saddam Hussein! If his trial ever comes to pass in an open fashion the whole thing could blow wide open. So my guess is that he won't make it that far. And already the Army is vetting what is released from the courtroom.

Think about it though. Is it possible that one reason we had to invade quickly is that there were some that were worried that the inspectors or IAEA were getting close? They were talking to Iraqi scientists and maybe the neocons were nervous. And gee, all that looting after the invasion...so many records destroyed.

Remember it was Woodward and Bernetein who broke Watergate. We don't have thew same kind of journalism today. But we do have the web and groups like this (and of course, google!

H20 says to ask why? Deep throat said to follow the money. Maybe we need to do a little of both. And Daniel Ellsberg called for whistleblowers. For people with knowledge of wrongdoing to speak up.

So if we keep our ears to the ground and keep digging we just might get somewhere.

[H2O Man]

28. Woodward didn't break Watergate

because he was a journalist. Bernstein, yes. Carl was a journalist. He had far less exposure to the people who made the composite of Deep Throat. Woodward used the position of journalist to do his part in an organized effort to remove Nixon for reasons that go far beyond the story of Watergate.

[shraby]

34. Because Nixon was going

off the deep end and probably could no longer be controlled??

[kohodog]

41. thanks for the correction H20

All these years later I associate the two because or the book and movie.

[merh]

58. H2O, please correct me if my memory is not correct, but didn't

the Watergate scandal (as made public to the nation) involve the breaking and entering into the Democratic parties offices and attempted thefts as ordered and authorized by pres. Nixon, as "head" of the RNC and the subsequent attempts to cover up the break ins?

If that is the case, wouldn't you agree that outing of a USA intelligence agent is a much more serious crime than party politic crimes since it involves national security issues? Additionally, the intent of the outing, the reasons why (as discussed in these threads) reflect that war crimes and treason have been committed for the sake of money and power.

If I am correct about Watergate, then, should you even consider it appropriate to compare Watergate to Plamegate? Comparing Plamegate to Watergate does not appear to be appropriate, so to assume that Plamegate and those implicated will be sweep under the rug seems highly unlikely. (IMHO)

For all of those who have hypothesized the world order theories, I have a simple question. How does the fact that all other nations now distrust us and fear us, not because of our strength but because of the admins unreliability and because the admin's attempts at world domination come into play? For the US and her corporations to obtain control of the world order as contemplated, the US must be respected and strong. We are no longer respected and our strengths are questioned. Our standing as an international power has been weakened and we no longer have the respect we once had.

[H2O Man]

65. The break-in at Watergate

was the part of the iceburg that the American public saw. The larger section lay in the cold dark recesses, but it absolutely had the capacity to sink our ship, so to speak. I have frequently said that everyone should read "The Imperial Presidency," by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. Nixon was taking part in a coordinated effort to destroy the balance (or separation) of powers that our federal government depends upon. I do not mean to imply that if all three branches are separate and have a balance, that this alone guarentees a healthy federal government. But I know that without question, an imperial, or revolutionary presidency, makes democracy impossible.

I share your outrage with the tactic used by this administration, in its attempt to reach the same approximate goal as Nixon et al. Clearly, the exposing of Plame -- and hence the sting operation that she was working on -- goes way beyond the Watergate break-in.

But in many ways, they were avenues that lead in the same direction.

[merh]

73. I understand what is considered the depth of and murky nature of what

was Watergate. But, my point is simple. What the general public was made aware of is that there was a breaking and entry and an attempt to steal. The general public was never informed of the complexity of Watergate.

Plamegate is a horse of not only a different color, but of a different bred. Yes, the intent may have been the same, the similiarities are there, but the key difference is what the basic charge will be - the illegal outing of an intelligence agent during a time when national security was at issue. Thus the "sweeping" of the incident under the rug seems unlikely. Pardons and slaps on the wrist not as likely.

And again, I must ask, what is the impact of our weakened and suspect reputation in the international community on the hypothesized world order theory. We know now that we are not as strong as we have always bragged, our military is stretched thin. Not only do we know it, other nations know it and they do not trust us any more. They are arming themselves in case we decide to turn on them. Thus, the world order efforts cannot be accomplished unless of course the world is thrown into a third world war. Wars may result in profit for profiteers, but a world war will leave nothing to enjoy for those in power. (imho)

[shraby]

76. I think that is why Dimson

is doomed for a second term. He has screwed their plans up royally. But will he take that laying down or try to keep power by any means possible, which will put the people in great danger.

Fitzgerald has to come out with Plame pretty quick, or it will be too late to sidetrack Bush's plans.

[kohodog]

79. Did Nixon screw up their plans then too?

Or did they want him out?

And Kennedy? Surely he was in the way.

[Pallas180]

98. NIXON was manipulated by Kissinger. Kennedy was killed by

them. He said when he found out, that he was going to tell all
Americans about the plot to take away their liberties.

[Pallas180]

97. Schraby=That's why Jay Rockefeller is saying"Most dangerous

moment in our history" - what Bush will do if he isn't winning.

And which side is Jay Rockefeller on?

Is it a battle of the billionairs - the Bilderberg founders and descendants fighting among themselves or is he a sincere black sheep
to the family?

[shraby]

110. I vaguely remember when he

came into congress, there was some discussion on it but my memory fails me.

[merh]

125. IMHO, too quickly would be wrong. The timing of the indictments

or the release of information regarding indictments (indictments could be returned but remain under seal) is crucial. Too soon and the admin will have an opportunity to create some sort of incident or allow some incident to occur that will require martial law and cancellation of elections.

Timing needs to be before the election so as to have the impact of destroying the voters confidence in the admin, so that they just don't turn out to vote for *, but not too soon to allow the admin time for damage control.

[Pallas180]

128. I'm guessing Plame won't break until after election but before

inauguration.

too long an explanation now.

[Pallas180]

95. Multi-National corps aren't AmericanThey have no allegiance to any country

MEHR...go back to the post with the link to the Bilderberg Organizaton
or google Bilderberg membership.

They are not just American, they never were orignally AMerican. Bilderberg was founded by some European prince who was a card carrying Nazi, the rest of the founders were bankers - then they started building an organization of professors, media, industrialists....get it. Moles in every influential corner.

IF YOU AINT GONNA READ THE POSTS YOU AINT GONNA FULLY UNDERSTAND MERH

The countries are listed and the members are under every countries
name.....just click on the country.

WE have a problem here first....then the citizens of other countries can be informed.

Cheezus, the last time I did something like this a chief of police and 4 cops dealing drugs went to jail.

But I had to move.

I'd say this is on a slightly larger scale.

[merh]

162. Pallas - do not yell at me - I have read all of the posts and my questions

are legitimate. Multi-national organizations have to have stong holds in strong nations - bases to operate out of so to speak - to be effective. To weaken the U.S. and her reputation among the other nations of the world weakens their position and their efforts. To be successful as theorized, they have to control a strong, powerful nation. * has weakened our reputation in the international community thus weakened their strong hold (as theorized).

There are other large powers, with different ideologies than ours or the multi-nationals you speak of, that have WMDs and that do not trust the U.S. The other super powers are not yet controlled by what you refer to the multi-national organizations and they are not likely to allow the world domination as you discuss.

SIMPLY PUT - if the U.S. loses it super power ranking, their dreams for world domination cannot come to fruition. Sort of like the parasite destroying its host.

Do not accuse me of not reading the threads and do not chasitze me for asking legitimate questions that challenge your theory.

I appreciate your efforts through these threads and your efforts to call to the attention of many the concerns relative to the Plame investigation.

I do not, however, appreciate your chastizing me for a different opinion or for asking legitimate questions. This is not the first time you have challenged a post of mine or reprimanded me for making it. You are not the only one who can make legitimate posts.

ALL CAPS REPRESENT YELLING AND I DO NOT APPRECIATE YOUR TONE OR ATTITUDE. You do not know all and you do not know as much as you think.

[Pallas180]

193. MERH - Im not yelling. I just want you to see what I saw - nevertheless

I don't think I agree with your first paragraph though:

"To weaken the U.S. and her reputation among the other nations of the world weakens their position and their efforts. To be successful as theorized, they have to control a strong, powerful nation. * has weakened our reputation in the international community thus weakened their strong hold (as theorized)."

Well they have to control a strong powerful army, yes. Which the world now knows we don't have because it is strung out so thin.

PNAC/Dimson's dream of World Domination is finished, I agree.

But I don't agree that Multi-Nationals need a strong host nation.
They strip nations of resources and weaken them,purposely.

And it is just when a nation is weakened, when it becomes a debtor nation,as America is now, that it is susceptible to "structural adjustment policies" . In order to qualify for loans from the IMF and The World BAnk they dictate currency devaluation, cutting of social safety nets, cutting of health care, and labor laws, and the
privatization of resources and the transfer of wealth out of the country. There are rollbacks in environmental regulations, and cutting of overtime pay, re-adjustment of Social Security and Medicare, .

The corporations do not re-invest the wealth from the natural resources back into the country, causing further loss of jobs. There's less jobs, less money,and less rights.

Money is poured into para military forces because eventually there is
going to be civil unrest because the country has broken its social contract with its people.

Does any of this sound familiar?

We've been G-8'd.Third world countried.
America is the biggest debtor country in the world
to the World Bank and the IMF.And the people we have been talking about online are behind the World Bank and the IMF.
We are weakened and we have actually been taken over already with the help of dimson. The final step is just the formality of an announced change in govt. Whether it will be
called PNAC dictatorship, The New World Order or One World Government - the preparations are made, and this is why Senator Jay Rockefeller is saying this is the most dangerous moment in our history".

This election is going to show whether they dare move ahead with the full castrating of the Constitution of the United States.

I can tell you one thing. I have seen the para military preparations they've made for any protest by citizens. People in Miami experienced it. It's not pretty.

Finally, Mehr, No. I don't know everything, but I sure am a fast learner.

Also I know how annoying it feels to be constantly challenged online and I apologize for making you feel that way. I don't remember doing that except for this previous post, it's not intentional on my part...except I really want you to click on the Bilderberg site
to share in the shock of realization and recognition of whose names in every industry and medium are on the list.

, that
the Bilderberg Organization - One World Govwernment

[merh]

203. Well, it appears that you took my post out of context.

I made a comparison between Watergate and Plamegate, trying to illustrate that the crimes involved in Plamegate are much more serious than the crime that the public was aware of in Watergate. IMHO, if Fitzgerald is truly investigating the Plame outing as seriously as it appears, then the crimes cannot be ignored and/or swept under the carpet as feared by many posting in these threads. Once * and his crew have been implicated, it weakens the trust the nation has in the GOP, thus it weakens the control that corporations tied to the GOP have, thus it retards the efforts of the multi-national organizations you theorize about.

You write as if the multinational organization just floats above continents and has no need for lands and strong citizenry. You couldn’t be farther from the truth. The most coveted land/nation is the USA. If our society is weakened, if it is impoverished, it will be of no use to the powers that you write about. Thus the analogy of a parasite destroying its host is appropriate. I agree with Senator Jay Rockefeller, this is the most dangerous moment in our history, however, I see that the forces you warn against are much smarter than you give them credit. They will not allow * to continue destroying, he may become their sacrificial lamb and their world domination plans may have to simply exist in the financial world, which is okay with them along as they continue to profit. Physical control may be an impossibility as * has screwed things up so badly.

World domination is not possible without nuclear weapons and that is not something they want to resort to using. It would destroy their little vacation spots, their golf courses and pristine beaches. Actually, I see it as the multi-national organization realizing that PNAC/*&co have totally screwed things up and they will make sure that they are out of the picture soon. No one wants to be king of a waste land. Greed is one of their flaws and along with greed comes their love for the pretty things, the shiny objects, the SUVs and limos.

You chastised me for not reading all of the posts and that was wrong of you. I suggest that you take the time to go back through the threads and read all of the posts again. Then you can see how you have attacked my posts (and possibly others).

Your energy and enthusiasm are understandable and appreciated, but do not forget that the ideas and comments of others have substance too.

Again, it is merh not mehr.

[merh]

173. Point in support of inquiry ...

Germany to drop 9/11 plot charges

German prosecutors are preparing to drop all the most serious charges against the only man convicted for the 11 September attacks, because they fear that crucial American evidence was obtained by torturing detainees.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,69...

----

Inquiry is simple -- what does the weakened reputation of the U.S. do to the hypothesis relative to the new world order?

The majority of our neighbors distrust us and our military is stretched thin as reflected in this article and as evident from the fact that they have not joined us in our efforts in Iraq and that they are increasing their military capabilities. How can we be the host nation for the new world order if we do not survive? What does the failure of the U.S. do to the theory?

And it is merh not mehr!

--------------------------------------------

Another thread that is discussing this same question!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Pallas180]

198. Wow. By screwing dimson, they also screw the American people letting

a terrorist go. If he was a terrorist. Several of the countries
are doing that. Didn't Bahrain just let some go also? They seem to be sending a message to him.

He sure made a lot of friends for America.

[merh]

205. My point exactly.

G-8???

[Pallas180]

44. KOHO - everything u said is exactly correct. We did WHY & followed money &

the answer is terrible.

"For people with knowledge to speak up"

Who are we going to tell?

Did you see Mort Zuckerman, Media, Bill Kristol, media, Vernon Jordan, Jon Corzine, George BAll, and that was just a quick look, on the Bilderberg list which was founded by a card carrying Nazi BTW in 1954.

If some of us study the list who know more about media and/or politicians or king makers or industrialist we're going to recognize more and more names. All people in positions of power and money.

Who are we going to tell?

We're their captives already. You all know I dont swear.\

But

SHIT

[shraby]

49. I wonder if there is an updated list

of players and I also wonder if John Kerry and John Edwards are on it. If so, the ballgame is over and we were not even spectators.

Notable name NOT on the list.
Bush (none)

Again, why? Is there a power struggle going on we aren't aware of, besides your observation about bin Laden?
Was bin Laden given a pass and not caught because of the power struggle?

[Pallas180]

51. People think it doesn't affect them, think again, healthcare unaffordable,

police in the streets, your children conscripted for their wars, and
killed or maimed physically or psychologically, housing unafordable,
jobs with lowered salaries, cars that use gas and oil instead of corn
oil, and the environment is destroyed, forests cut down further destroying the environemnt, disease and famine in undesirable countries, "detention camps", your standard of living lowered to third
world country, ..............

feel free to add to the list

[Pallas180]

99. SHRABYcompeting octopus-Carlyle obl their hit man??? could be or

am I really getting tin foil?

[kohodog]

105. Who knows,

But I suspect Alcoa would enjoy some of our tangents!

[shraby]

113. That may be cause

no Bushes on the Bilderberg tree.

[AgadorSparticus]

30. found some interesting information.

1. This interview with Hopsicker REALLY puts the dots closer to MIHOP. He explains very succintly the Dutch boy theory, Mohammad Atta's girlfriend, and the Venice Flying School puzzle. Definitely worth the read.

http://www.sanderhicks.com/hopsickerinterview.html

2. In my research last night, I found several articles that discusses the advancement of Al Queda and the Taliban getting nukes. They said that prior to our Afghanistan invasion, they were in the rudimentary stages of nuclear acquisition. But a noticeable factor was that they were extremely determined and intel suggests that had we not invaded Afghanistan, they would have acquired nukes within a couple years.

Now, here's the interesting part. When we DID get there, most of the intel were destroyed or removed. Afterall, they did get a 2 months headstart (as per micheal moore, F911). But we were able to piece together the fact that they did have extensive plans of getting nuclear capabilities.

Which leads me to a new theory. We knew Iraq didn't have WMD's. We were led on a wild goose chase regarding Iraq and yellowcake. Which leads me to think that Iraq WMD's was just a distraction from the REAL issue: Taliban/ Al Queda WMD's. I think the dots are getting closer in connecting F'U CHeney and his cabal to the WMD network that provided Al Queda with WMD's and maybe this is what Plame was coming close to unearthing.

sorry, forgot the link:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/middle_east/DK22Ak01.html

Also, I was thinking that by making Iraq a WMD diversion, they had an excuse to start a war (which profits from the warmongering corporations), helps them with poll numbers at home (the whole flag cloaking thing and the positive benefits of using fear at home), plus they get to steal the second largest oil reserves in the world--possibly the largest as it is basically untapped. I read somewhere last night that it could rival Saudia Arabia with the number of barrels produced a day (currently 20 million? something like that.) Anyways, there was plenty of pro's to go into iraq and make it a scapegoat under the pretense of illegal WMD's.

[RebelYell]

169. I ordered Hopsicker's latest book on 9/11

I read one other of his, "Barry and The Boys", about Mena, AR drug running and the pilot/CIA Barry Seal. Riveting and eye-opening.

[Pallas180]

47. H20 - can you please answer my #39 ? n/t

(:

[H2O Man]

52. If you combine

#23 and #47, it answers you question .... I hope ..... there are some things that can't (or at least shouldn't) be answered directly .... you are asking pointed questions about 9-11 .... and, what do you know, you've asked "Why?" ..... I'm not sure that that is a question that Fox News wants you to ask! But it does fit into the series of questions that yours truly has hinted at here since day one....

[shraby]

54. Here is a list of 2004 participants at Bilderberg

Honorary Chairman - Davignon, Etienne - Vice-Chairman, Suez-Tractebel

Honorary Secretary General - Taylor, Martin - International Adviser, Goldman Sachs International

Nationalities of participants followed by names and partial portfolios
N - Auser, Svein - CEO, DnB NOR ASA

D - Ackermann, Josef - Chairman, Group Executive Committee, Deutsche Bank AG

I - Ambrosetti, Alfredo - Chairman, Abbrosetti Group

TR - Babacan, Ali - Minister of Economic Affairs

P - Balsemao, Francisco Pinto - Chairman and CEO, IMPRESA, SGPS, Former Prime Minister

ISR - Barnavie, Elie - Department of General History, Tel-Aviv University

I - Benedetti, Rodolfo De - CEO, CIR

I - Bernabe, Franco - Vice Chairman, Rothschild Europe

F - Beytout, Nicolas - Editor In Chief, Les Echos

INT - Bolkestein, Frits - Commissioner for the Internal Market, European Commission, former leader of Dutch right wing Liberal Party VVD.

USA - Boot, Max - Neoconservative, Council on foreign Relations, Features Editor, Wall Street Journal

CH - Borel, Daniel - Chairman, Logitech International S.A.

I - Bortoli, Ferrucio de - CEO, RCS Libri

S - Brock, Gunnar - CEO, Atlas Copco AB

GB - Browne, John - Group Chief Executive, BP plc

NL - Burgmans, Antony - Chairman, Unilever NV

F - Camus, Phillipe - CEO, European Aeronautic Defence and Space NV

I - Caracciolo, Lucio - Director, Limes Geopolitical Review

F - Castries, Henri de - Chairman, AXA Insurance

E - Cebrian, Juan Luis - CEO, PRISA (Spanish language media company), former Chairman, International Press Institute

TR - Cemal, Hasan - Senior Columnist, Milliyet Newspaper

GB - Clarke, Kenneth - Member of Parliament (Con.), Deputy Chairman, British American Tobacco

USA - Collins, Timothy C - MD and CEO, Ripplewood Holdings LLC, Yale School of Management, Trilateral Commission

USA - Corzine, Jon S. - Senator (D, New Jersey), Chairman and CEO, Goldman Sachs

CH - Couchepin, Pascal - Former Swiss President, Head of Home affairs Dept.

GR - David, George A. - Chairman, Coca-Cola Hellenic Bottling Company SA

B - Dehaene, Jean-Luc - Former Prime Minister, Mayor of Vilvoorde

TR - Dervis, Kemal - Member of Parliament, former senior World bank official

GR - Diamantopoulou, Anna - Member of Parliament, former European Commissioner for Social Affairs

USA - Donilon, Thomas L - Vice-President, Fannie Mae, Council on Foreign Relations

I - Draghi, Mario - Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Goldman Sachs

USA - Edwards, John - Senator (D. North Carolina), Democratic Presidential Candidate

DK - Eldrup, Anders - Chairman, DONG gas company (becoming privatised) A/S

DK - Federspiel, Ulrik - Ambassador to the USA

USA - Feith, Douglas J. - Undersecretary for Policy, Department of Defense

I - Galateri, Gabriele - Chairman, Mediobanca

USA - Gates, Melinda F. - Co-Founder, Gates Foundation, wife of Bill Gates

USA - Geithner, Timothy F. - President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York

I - Giavazzi, Francesco - Professor of Economics, Bocconi University; adviser, world bank and European Central bank

IRL - Gleeson, Dermot - Chairman Allied Irish Bank Group (currently being investigated for personal and corporate tax evasion)

USA - Graham, Donald E. - Chairman and CEO, Washington Post Company

USA - Haas, Richard N. - President, Council on Foreign Relations, former Director of Policy and Planning staff, State Department

NL - Halberstadt, Victor - Professor of Economics, Leiden University

B - Hansen, Jean-Pierre - Chairman, Suez Tractabel SA

S - Heikensten, Lars - Governor, Swedish Central Bank

USA - Holbrooke, Richard C - Vice Chairman, Perseus, former Director, Council on Foreign Relations, former Assistant Secretary of State

USA - Hubbard, Allen B - President E&A Industries

USA - Issacson, Walter - President and CEO, Aspen Institute

USA - Janow, Merit L. - Professor, International Economic Law and International Affairs, Columbia University, member of apellate body, WTO

USA - Jordan, Vernon E. Senior Managing Director, Lazard Freres & Co LLC

USA - Kagan, Robert - Senior Associate, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

GB - Kerr, John - Director, Shell, Rio Tinto and Scottish American Investment Trust, former secretary of European Constitution Commission

USA - Kissinger Henry A. - Chairman, Kissinger Associates Inc.

TR - Koc, Mustafa V. - Chairman, Koc Holdings AS

NL - Koenders, Bert (AG) - Member of Parliament, president, Parliamentary Network of the World Bank

USA - Kovner, Bruce - Chairman Caxton Associates LLC, Chairman, American Enterprise Institute

USA - Kravis, Henry R. - Founding Partner, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co., acquisitions financier

USA - Kravis, Marie Josee - Senoir Fellow, Hudson Institute Inc.

FIN - Lehtomaki, Paula - Minister of Foreigh Trade and Development

FIN - Lipponen, Paavo - Speaker of Parliament; former Prime Minister

CHN - Long, Yongtu - Secretary General, Boao forum for Asia

P - Lopes, Pedro M. Santana - Mayor of Lisbon

USA - Luti, William J. - Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs

CDN - Lynch, Kevin G. - Deputy Minister, Department of Finance

USA - Mathews, Jessica T. - President, Carnegie Endowment for International War Peace

USA - McDonough, William J. - Cahirman and CEO, Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, former president, Federal Reserve Bank of New York

CDN - McKenna, Frank - Counsel, McInnes Cooper, former premier of New Brunswick

I - Merlini, Cesare - Executive Vice Chairman, Council for the United States and Italy, Council on Foreign Relations, former director, Italian Institute for International Affairs

F - Montbrial, Thierry de - President, French Institute of International Relations

INT - Monti, Mario - Competition/Antitrust Commissioner, European Commission

USA - Mundie, Craig J. - Chief Technical Officer, Advanced Strategies and Policies, Microsoft Corporation

N - Myklebust, Egil - Chairman, Scandinavian Airline System (SAS)

D - Naas, Matthias - Deputy Editor, Die Zeit

NL - Netherlands, Beatrix HM Queen of The - Lady Shell, nuff said

GB - Neville-Jones, Pauline - Chairman, QuinetiQ (UK privatised military research/services company), governor of the BBC, Chairman Information Assurance Advisory Council, formar Chairman Joint Intelligence Committee, former Managing Director NatWest Markets

USA - Nooyi, Indra K. - President and CEO, PepsiCo Inc.

PL - Olechowski, Andrzej - Leader, Civic Platform

FIN - Ollila, Jorma - Chairman, Nokia Corporation

INT - Padoa-Schioppa, Tommaso - Director, European Central Bank

CY - Pantelides, Leonidas - Ambassoador to Greece

I - Passera, Corrado - CEO, Banca Intesa SpA

USA - Perle, Richard N. - Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research, former Likud policy adviser, former chair Defence Policy Board, former co-chairman, Hollinger Digital

B - Phillipe, HRH Prince

USA - Reed, Ralph E. - President, Century Strategies

CDN - Reisman, Heather - President and CEO, Indigo Books and Music Inc.

I - Riotta, Gianni - Editorialist, Corriere della Serra

USA - Rockefeller, David - Member JP Morgan International Council, Chairman, Council of the Americas

E - Riodriguez Inearte, Matias - Vice Chairman, Grupo Santander

USA - Ross, Dennis B - Director, The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

D - Sandschneider, Eberhard - Director, Research Institute, German Society for Foreign Policy

I - Scaroni, Paolo - CEO, Enel SpA

D - Schilly, Otto - Minister of the Interior

USA - Schnabel, Rockwell A. - Ambassador to the EU

A - Scholten, Rudolf - Director, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG

D - Schrempp, Jurgen E. - Chairman, DaimlerChrysler AG

E - Serra Rexach, Eduardo - Head, Real Institute Elcano

RUS - Shevtsova, Lilia - Senior Associate. Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

PL - Sikora, Slawomir - President and CEO, Citibank Handlowy

I - Siniscalo, Domenico - Director General Ministry of the Economy

P - Socrates, Jose - Member of Parliament

USA - Strmecki, Marin J. - Smith Richardson Foundation

B - Struye de Swielande, Dominique - Permanant repressentative of Belguim, NATO

IRL - Sutherland, Peter D. - Chairman, Goldman Sachs International, Chairman, BP plc

USA - Thornton, John L. - Chairman, Brookings Institution, Professor, Tsinghua University

I - Tremonti, Giulio - Minister of Economy and Finance

INT - Trichet, Jean-Claude - President, European Central Bank

I - Tronchetti Provera, Marco - Chairman and CEO, Pirelli SpA

N - Underdal, Arild - Rector, University of Oslo

CH - Vasella, Daniel L. - Chairman and CEO, Novartis AG

NL - Veer, Jeroen van der - Chairman, Committee of Managing Directors, Royal Dutch/Shell

GB - Verwaayen, Ben J. M. - CEO, British Telecom; former director, Lucent Technologies

I - Visco, Ignazio - Foriegn Affairs Manager, Banca D'Italia

INT - Vitorino, Antonio M. - Justice and Home Affairs Commissioner, European Union

INT - Vries, Gijs M. de - EU Counter Terrorism Co-ordinator

S - Wallenberg, Jacob - Chairman, SEB investments (including biotech); Chairman, W Capital Management AB

D - Weber, Jurgen - Chairman of the Supervisory Board, Deutche Lufthansa AG

GB/USA - Weinberg, Peter - CEO, Goldman Sachs International

NL - Wijers, Hans - Chairman, AkzoNobel NV

D - Wissmann, Matthias - Member of Parliament

GB - Wolf, Martin H. - Associate Editor/Economic Commentator, The Financial Times

INT/USA - Wolfenson, James D. - President, The World Bank

RUS - Yavlinsky, Grigory A. - Member of Parliament

USA - Yergin, Daniel - Chairman, Cambridge Energy Research Associates

D - Zumwinkel, Klaus - Chairman, Deutche Post Worldnet AG; Chairman, Deutche Telekom

Rapporteurs
GB - Rachman, Gideon - Brussels Correspondent, The Economist

GB - Wooldridge, Adrian D. - Foreign Correspondant, The Economist

Summary by nation
Austria 1
Belgium 4
Canada 3
Switzerland 3
China 1
Cyprus 1
Germany 8
Denmark 2
Spain 3
France 4
Finland 3
Great Britain 9
Greece 2
Italy 16
International 7
Ireland 2
Israel 1
Norway 3
Netherlands 6
Portugal 3
Poland 2
Russia 2
Sweden 3
Turkey 4
USA 33
Total 126

[Pallas180]

103. SCHRABY- GREAT WORK. are those guests or members?

they invite guests to come and give them speeches or brain trust with
them.

Some names on there are very disappointing.

Gates' wife. REmember how they hounded him cause he was apolitical.
Guess he learned the game.

[sal]

81. No one will ever be indicted

All they need is probable cause to issue an indictment. The case is made to the jury not the grand jury. I cannot imagine a situation more evident of probable criminal wrong-doing as per the Federal Act governing the release of information about covert agents than such a person identified in the national press having been attributed to a known source. What is the political calculus of allowing for the felons to remain in their criminal enterprise one milisecond past the point when it is reasonably certain a crime had happened? You know, when the facists overthrew the government they weren't worried bad things would happen. The fix was in then and the fix is in now. Nofacts flaunts his crimes in public; hell he is still on TV even today as we speak on Crapital Gang. The press is obfuscating breathlessly about how Plame recommended Wilson for the gig and he knew it, and there really was Niger u-cake pimps everywhere, cause Lord Butler says so, blather, blather - as if that changed the fact that a thinly veiled act of treason happened right under the preznits nose, or perhaps worse. The whole thing is too much of a buzz kill for the ring smooching press, and there is no way this thing will ever make it. I'm sorry.

[shraby]

83. If Nixon was caught, this one

will be caught and not just the lower ones, but up the line. I think Fitzgerald is dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's to make sure it not only happens, but works.

[kohodog]

87. Then we are wasting our time here?

We have known that the press is useless for the most part. But as citizens we can still make noise.

I found this link regarding the chronology of 1968 on another thread and wanted to bring it into this discussion. I think events then were coming to a head, and the people speaking out set them back. But today the people are more complacent, especially many of the youth. I have said it before, but the media has anesthetized people.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/1553/c68chron.ht...


Which is why we must speak up. If we can expose them, we can reawaken the people, and I believe we are on the verge. Keep going! Talk about it. Write those letters. We are the only other World Power.

"Democracy is coming to the USA" --Leonard Cohen

[Me.]

94. Need Your Help Gang

Joe Conason just emailed me and referring to the original email and said, "Can you elaborate on the connection?". Specifically he is (I think) referring to a comment I made about the Plame/investigation of Chaney connection. My thought is to send him the link to the first thread and then letter him follow his way to 9. But where is the link to the first one?

[KoKo]

96. Can you elaborate on your question? Which "connection" are you asking

about? There have been many connections. Pallas has a good one here on this thread but there has been much about the connection.

[kohodog]

100. me. fantastic job getting in touch with Conason!

There are a few threads that give a short summary. Pallas, I think you had a good one, can youm help?

The other threads have benn made as word docs and pdf's and you can download them and attach them. The pdf's have live links.

Alas, I have not downloaded them or I would link them here.

Anybody?

Bueller?

[Me.]

102. I followed the trail back wards

and have it. I will tell him if he has any problems to let me know. Yes, there are so many connections which is why I think sending him the threads may be most beneficial.

[kohodog]

104. Cool

I'd love to hear his reaction. I think I'll email Thom Hartmann.

[Pallas180]

108. ME, I just sent you an e mail , your regular e mail , not DU

so you can send it along to Mr. Conason.

Tell him we think he's the greatest....and good looking too

[Pallas180]

115. H20 & THINK TANK OK HERE'S MY IDEA TO DEFEAT THEM

as a start anyway. Our opening salvo.

We have the perfect opportunities right now.

We have access to 47,000 DUers on line. some won't help but some
will

We have people going to the RNC convention and DNC convention

H20 - Can you please put what we have learned, or even theorized
from the Plame affair to the PNAC and who the dimson family is to ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT in a synopis - that sounds reasonable but explains
very clearly what danger this country is in, and the purposeful intention of taking away jobs, taking away social services, dumbing
down our children and schools, lowering our standard of living, and
continuing to keep the population - that means you Madam and Sir,
in a state of fear so that we will be more malleable and willing to give up our liberties guaranteed in the constituion for their guarantee of security.

Please put in Henry Kissinger's quote and David Rockefeller's quote.

It might end with" a vote for dimson or any of the people on the attached list is a vote for the conscription of your children to fight
wars for multi national corporations and oil companies, and a vote for
the loss of our liberty here at home and the complete destruction of
the Constitution of the United States.

i'm sure you can make it strong h20 without making it sound like the
wild eyed person I presently sound like.

How about it??

Then either e mail it to me over DU closed e mail if you dont want to
post it yourself.

I'll post it, we all print it up, and we distribute over the net to
people going to the conventions.....if we get 200 or 1000 people out there physically distributing it on paper, we've got something going.

WE will also attach the Bilderberg URL's and names to the "Expose'"
with Kissinger and DAvid Rockefellre quotqations in giant letters.

THEN THE NEXT TIME THERE'S AN ATTACK HERE, OR A DIRTY BOMB LET OFF
WELL THERE MAY NOT BE A NEXT TIME IF WE GET ENOUGH OF THOSE EXPOSE'S
FLOATING AROUND.

pEOPLE MIGHT START TO RETHINK 911 AFTER THEY SEE HIS QUOTE AND DAVID ROCKEFGELLER'S . " "aLL WE NEED is a major crisis and the people will
be ready for One World Govt. We elite bankers can decide better than
the unwashed and uneducated.......etc. etc

WHAT DO YOU SAY - ARE WE GONNA C.R.U.S.H THE BASTIDS OR NOT??????

[shraby]

118. They could also be sent to

every member of congress..let them know we know that they know...and as Rumsfeld, it is a known unknown.

[H2O Man]

139. Hmmmm .... the Plame Indict. Thread Manifesto!

Give me a day to outline something serious.

I've noted before that Malcolm X said never put a skull & cross bones on any bottle of medicine you want people to take. The words "one world government" is just that.

It's important in forming a "movement," for lack of a better term, to NOT give people too much of a load. Small goals. Small assignments. Then people enjoy the rewards of success. And you build up, slowly.

Remember our discussion about getting 100 people to write a letter? Because even if there are 47,000 registered people on DU, if we can't get 100 people to write that letter, than we are too weak to consider a project that requires 1000 people to write a letter.

Our little group isn't ready to run a marathon quite yet. But maybe it's time to become more defined, in order to approach those others.

It's a good idea.

[Pallas180]

146. H20 blowing kisses whoosh blowing kisses whoosh -my

H20

idea is not to write letters with this. I'm sorry. I was typing too
fast to make myself clear. THIS IS TO BE A FLYER, with the story of
what is happening on it.

We here at DU will print out the FLYER on our computers and have them
photocopied and get them to people who are going to RNC and DNC to pass out to all the people there and on the street and everywhere.

I'm so thrilled that you say yes.

It's a start.

We are bright people trying to do something about this. How much
we can do, I don;t know. But perhaps we can draw the attention of
a decent and powerful person in their arena who can do more than we
can....perhaps the media, or tv.

We can try. My philosophy is to try your best. And even if it doesn't
succeed you will always know you tried and put every effort into it.

But I know you knew that about me. (smile)

[kohodog]

151. Pallas, I'm a printer...

struggling as an independent (with my partners), but we can print hundreds of thousands! The mass media may be a lost cause, but I for one believe in the printed word. Until they own the presses (and believe me, it is happening), we can oppose them. The internet is awesome, but with the click of a keystroke an ISP can shut us down. Printing presses are harder to stop. (and we're tough).

I'll be happy to consider printing our book!

If this turns into something we'll find a way to get in touch.

[Pallas180]

239. KOHO - I can't tell you how wonderful that support makes me feel.

I guess we really are an underground. With all the right components.
We'll have to see what H20 comes up with. And then contact the activists going to the RNC and DNC conventions.

DU e mail me Koho and let me know what state,city you're in.
We can begin to form our "get the news out" organization.

Hugging you.

[H2O Man]

154. "What you think, you become"

Another quote from Gandhi.

In politics, there are three groups of people: those who always support you, those who always oppose you, and the "undecided."

Our goal should be to get the "undecided." It's a large group. It includes those people who may be on DU, and share our values, but who has been convinced by their day-to-day life, from childhood on, that they are not capable. There are more people who do not have an internal locus of control ... they think outside forces determine everything in their life .... and that level of powerlessness, and weakly turning individual choice to the collective .... is indeed bibical.

The next group of undecideds are the curious and interested, who are sincerely unsure of what is going on. They are the people you meet at the gas pump, or in the grocery store. They are angry that a gallon of gas and/or milk is so high, but they haven't fully connected that with george bush.

We need to reach the "undecided" youth with the potential to vote, but not the focus. We need to reach the poor people, who have been taught in the school of hard knocks that this society isn't limited to Johnedward's "two Americas," his wonderful tribute to Mario Cuomo's 1984 speech at the convention. Now, there are three or four Americas where men like Kerry and Edwards have never walked. Bobby Kennedy is the last American politician to walk the streets of those Americas.

We have a message that can attract a sizeable number of the main-stream democrats, who are active, but who do not think in the expanses that we have been inhabiting for the past two weeks.

Can you imagine? The republicans do not expect this out of DU! They expect even the most insightful of DUers to be limited in language, and to only speak in a tongue of extremism: one world government, conspiracies, and revolution for the hell of it.

No, Pallas, I like your idea. I like it a lot. I'll come up with a "rough draft #4" soon .... maybe tomorrow, at least a good start.

[Pallas180]

240. Thank you H20. Our first step begins. And several DU'ers

like KOHO and Calimary and Schraby have offered their services.

If FU Cheney's American Enterprise Institute began with 5,and look
where it is now, without the internet, imagine what WE can do - with your guidance.

Barbara Streisand singing "People" in the background

[shraby]

116. Someone made a big

error when they let the Bilderberg cat out of the bag. I had never heard of it before just recently. Thought about googling it and then it slipped my mind. Now we have the cat by the tail, trick is to put it in the bathtub for a good cleaning without getting scratched too bad.

[Pallas180]

120. SCHRABY print out bilderberg cause they have taken the site down

before. And someone got it back up. They aint happy.

[Pallas180]

123. HENRY KISSINGER ON HOW TO MANIPULATE AMERICANS

Bush 1,Chief of CIA, Pres. of Council on Foreign Relations, member of DAvid Rockefeller's Trilateral Commission, an offshoot of Bilderberg, the major designer of the plan for the New World Order established 1973 but not as old as the Bilderberg Group established in 1954 and apparently to what JFK referred just before his death in the quote above.

(This plan for world domination also known as the NEW WORLD ORDER AND ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT has been in the works since the end of WW2,and prior to 1954.

The New World Order Plan was partially authored by Kissinger who had been connected to prominent people in the US govt. since the 40's. )

Kissinger recently said:

"Today Americans would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their World Government."

- Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberger meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992.

Circa time when PNAC first written for Bush 1

[Jose Diablo]

130. One thing to remember about Bildeberg

It is a 'foreign' power and as defined by the constitution of what treason consists of, if an American aids a foreign power in an attempt to overthrow the USA, then that IS treason by the legal definition.

Those committing treason can be prosecuted and executed for treason. It is not just a matter of going to jail to play golf for a few months.

Therefore, if the Bildeberg agenda is to subjugate the USA, then those participating in Bildeberg meetings are traitors, legally.

Does anybody have documentation of Bildeberg's agenda?

Wouldn't planning to suborn the USA to a NWO "World Government" constitute aiding a foreign power?

[Pallas180]

140. Wow good thinking JELLY BEAN..later I'll chew onthat one:)

[midwayer]

147. Secrets of the Bilderberg

http://www.prisonplanet.com/secrets_of_the_bilderberg.h...

[midwayer]

134. HEY! Come back over here!

I just came over here to check out the latest on the Plame thread and what do I find? BILDERBERG and the Illuminati! LOL

Could someone please direct me to the Plame thread? I think I may have lost my way

Seriously, How in the world did you guys get off on the Bilderberg group?...what is the connection? I must have missed somthing


There are simply too many posts here to pick it apart though I have read many

thanks

[midwayer]

138. Here is a whole compilation on Bilderberg

http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_bilderberg.html

Alex has been discussing this for quite a while now for those who may not know

[midwayer]

142. Bilderberg Split on Iraq War

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bilderberg_split_on_iraq_wa...

The ultimate goal is to divide the world into three great regions for the administrative convenience of a world government. The dollar is to become the common currency.

[midwayer]

135. I meant over here (eom)

[Pallas180]

148. Hello Midwayer, Nice of you to join us. We'll take a look-see

but if you excuse me, I've had a tough day! (smile)

[midwayer]

149. No problem doesn't look like it will go anywhere too soon..

I'll do a little more reading see if I can figure this tangled web out

[Pallas180]

153. MIDWAYER-couldn't leave you up in the air - we came round

circle and found that the Octopus is dimson and famiglia, cheney, rummy, neo-cons, and PNAC are part of New World Order, New World Order is part of Bilderberger and Trilateral's One World Government.

We're not happy campers.

As a matter of fact it's been like being hit by lightning.

Exhaustion.

Be back at midnite.

[Pallas180]

155. GANG Be back at midnite guys to check in and look-see. Meanwhile

from H20's Kahlil Gibran

it reminds me of us



I CAME HERE TO BE FOR ALL AND WITH ALL , AND WHAT I DO TODAY

IN MY SOLITYDE WILL BE ECHOED TOMORROW BY THE MULTITUDE.



WHAT I SAY NOW WITH ONE HEART WILL BE SAID TOMORROW BY THOUSANDS OF

HEARTS.

[coeur_de_lion]

159. Pallas enough is enough. You are not gonna save the world from

Bilderberg tonight. They've been here since the 1800s, they will be here in the morning.

Go the hell to bed and get some rest. Have a glass of wine, put on some good music, relax, and GO TO BED.

Pick your battles carefully. Only fight battles you can win. And don't start thinking about stuff like this at midnight.

Knock it off, already. I'm serious. I'll come down there and put your ass to bed myself.

[Pallas180]

176. ARBY -Emotional exhaustion, not physical. I don't expect to save the

world singlehandedly.

I expect all of you people to save the
world with me....or at least make the first step in doing so.

[coeur_de_lion]

208. Even Don Quixote had to sleep some time . . . n/t

[Pallas180]

241. ARBY chuckling. Good One. I've seen a few windmills, but never tilted. :)

[midwayer]

157. You mean you guys

are just now finding this stuff?

Yes, it's scary stuff and the majority of the American people won't believe it as, psychologically, they would either rather not know, they don't care or simply will not believe it and consider it whacko conspiracy theory.

As we learn more, every day that goes by, the overall puzzle seems to fall into place.

Is it for real?

Guess we'll find out over time. Sounds like if you fight it, you could lose your life especially if you are in a position of power. It's not something that will happen all at once but something that they attempt to condition the people to over a long period of time through different events, manipulations, etc.

Scary stuff for those who follow the story.

If true, it explains alot regarding the behavior of both of our political parties.

Be sure and check out the "subject archive" at the site I provided for quite an impressive collection he has put together over time.


Mid

[Jose Diablo]

158. Well, if you started thread on Bilderberg conspiracy

then went forward to Plame, you would get crucified even in DU for falling for a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.

It took about 2500 posts to get here. But the linkage is in place. Too bad they are embedded as deep as ticks on a dog, eh?

Edit: If my parents had insisted on a good investigation into JFK assasination, this wouldn't have happened. If Reagan hadn't been elected. If...well it could have been thwarted any number of times. But they would have keep trying over and over. Maybe now, they can be confronted properly, like they should have when they tried to assasinate FDR. Oh well. Its not the end. Maybe a new begining. But it will be rough for a while I am sorry to say.

[RebelYell]

160. Same here....

...I ran across the Bilderberg stuff shortly after 9/11. I tried to tell friends and family about it, they said I needed to step away from my computer, slowly.

I knew someday I'd be able to say, "Told ya."

[Jose Diablo]

163. For 50 years they have planned this

Does anybody really believe these guys are going to let a little thing like and election set them back when they are this close to world domination? I don't think so.

But writting letters, protests marches are the order of business for now, so I wouldn't stop those efforts. Hope for the best, plan for the worst would be wise I think.

[Pallas180]

177. Yes Midway. Societal Engineering. Very bad greedy societal engineering-

It has taken all of our combined research over a
period of about a week , about 2700 posts back and forth to inform each other to find out about Bildenberg and Trilateral and New World Order behind everything.

And the outing of Valerie Plame led us there.

We have been up, as we discoverd the reasons behind outing Valerie
Plame.....and the very financially rewarding business of making war,
and down when we found out it is a part of a massive master plan by the richest and most powerful people from every country on the face of the earth.

However, FRance had a revolution and so did Russia, so did Yugoslavia.
There's hope.

[loudsue]

161. I believe the New World Order screwed up with 9/11

Before I start on WHY that may be so.....I just want to send many thanks and commendations for the excellent research and dot-connecting going on with these threads. Simply awesome.

When the bush cabal allowed 9/11 to happen (though my belief is that they actually facilitated that happening), the New World Order allowed the opening, and EXPOSURE, of Pandora's Box.

Bush was a dimson before, he's a dimson now, and he will always be a dimson. He has screwed up everything he's ever touched. When he announced he was running for president, I remember the entire bush clan was caught off-guard, because they truly intended Jeb to be the one to run for the job. Dimson had always been in his father's shadow, and damned if he was going to let little brother Jeb get the lime-light, instead of him.

But, the bush clan rallied around their prodigal son, and stole the presidential office on his behalf. Dimson had been aware of his father's speech re: the New World Order, and the necessary players and power brokers, for a long time. He jumped right in and staffed the administration and cabinet of the world's only superpower with all the necessary players, and then set out to deliberately, and impatiently (like the adolescent he is), "bring it on". He was going to show his dad, and the other "big boys", how it was done, in short order.

However, his arrogance, his impatience, his narcissism, and his twisted vindictiveness and paranoia were too obvious to be overlooked by anyone with more than 2 brain cells to knock together. He was the WRONG man for the job, because his lack of subtlety was bound to blow the cover of the 9/11 CONSPIRACY, and surely lead to exposure of the entire global domination crowd. It was such a sloppy job (just as all of his jobs have been) that it was glaringly obvious to too many people across the globe.

It wasn't supposed to be that way. The "new Pearl Harbor", called for in PNAC, wasn't supposed to expose so much.

The Iraq attack was supposed to have been more carefully prepared. I can well imagine that the Bilderbergers and their hidden puppeteers have been holding their breath, worried about premature and uncomplimentary exposure.

I've known about the Bilderbergers for several years, which is one reason I was not a Kerry supporter. Kerry, though his name is not on the list posted above, is very deeply entwined with the workings of the same usual suspects....not just through skull and bones, but through blood and family ties; after all, his middle name is Forbes, and he is a distant cousin of george w. bush. Though Kerry is 100-times the human being that gee-dubya is, the apple doesn't fall very far from the (family)tree.

These 9 threads are PRIME EXAMPLES of why many of the New World Order (NWO) bosses are probably deeply relieved that Kerry is running. And I also believe that, as someone suggested above, there MAY be TWO CAMPS at the highest levels of money and power in the world. After all, the money and power crowds are all about COMPETITION for even more money and power, so two camps (minimum!) would only be appropriate to the culture we're talking about, even if they are pursuing the same ultimate goals.

I do believe that the neocons who own the press in the USA, are in ONE camp, and I believe Kerry will get crucified by them when he is made president...just for sport, of course. But just as Bill Clinton facilitated (and continues to support) the NWO, so will Kerry.

I ALSO believe that there are DECENT people in positions of power in the USA, and across the globe....I mean BIG power. I believe that almost all people with extreme money and power KNOW that a NWO is coming, simply because they are the ones who have to MANAGE the world's money and power; and a GLOBAL model, in today's world, is actually much more manageable for them. I just don't think many of them ever considered trying to do it all in a 4-year-term of some cowboy president. They didn't ALL get that rich and powerful by being totally stupid, impatient, and short-sighted. They've taken generations (deliberately mated and bred) to achieve their goals.

But, granted, peak oil is speeding things up a bit. It's a real, material problem that has to be dealt with.

I also believe the internet activism is a wild-card they didn't expect to confront, exactly, but they are still able to contain the threat, since they own the media that feeds and hypnotizes the masses.

There IS a solution for the masses to balance the power.... and that is to quit financing the wealthiest. It isn't a likely solution, because it would take more unity than we currently have to organize a global pull-back on purchases....especially purchases of essentials. The divisions between right & left, Jewish-Christian-Muslim, white-black-brown-yellow-red....all these divisions have been carefully orchestrated to insure that unity would be blocked.

But if the masses of right-left-Jewish-Christian-Muslim-white-black-brown-yellow-red finally understood that those divisions were CREATED purposefully to disempower us all, we could all begin to work in concert.

If people of the world were guaranteed a true, accountable vote in elections, we could START to make necessary changes. But we have seen that, even before we began to awaken to our dilemma, the doors to our own freedom were already being nailed shut with unaudited elections.

It's a big problem for us "little guys", divided as we have allowed ourselves to become from our global and domestic brothers & sisters.

We have now seen the thousands of tentacles of the monster that seeks to consume us. But like H2O_Man says....they're just people. They have many advantages over us, but we also have advantages over them!

A New World Order is coming, and in some respects, it's a reasonable evolution for humankind. If we stop and AGREE with the transition, but side with those in power who are actually DECENT in their intentions, we can influence them through our support of them. We can play on the competition between the factions that are vying for the greater influence. Identifying those benevolent souls that control the Bilderbergers, and identifying those tyrannical ones, might help.

I think the ones that are appalled by the bush crime family are a good place to start. They may be our hope. Can we swing this transition to a better end?

[kohodog]

166. loudsue, i'm glad you're back!

that was a great, hopeful post, and I think i agree. It is so easy to focus on the negative, but it seems fairly obvious that if world domination was easy it would have been done centuries ago. We the people have tremendous power and opportunity to change things for the better! I'll say it again, together we ARE the other super power.

[shraby]

167. Loudsue

You are very right, but the trick is to sort out the good from the bad. How would one go about doing that? Global co-operation is probably the way things are going now as more countries become more civilized with modern conveniences, better diets, diseases being controlled, but note I said co-operation, not dominance. We are light years of accomplishing such a thing mostly because the very backward countries have been allow to remain backward and full of disease, starvation and civil strife. In fact, civil strife has in many cases been encouraged. Also there are those who would be dominant over as many countries as possible to exploit the populace.

Where would one start to figure out who the white hats are? I suppose we could start with scientists, doctors, and humanitarians. All these groups depend on money for their existence, but money is not their goal. Bankers, politicians are suspect. I would guess that the more board seats they hold the more suspect they become. That's a start. Any more thoughts on this?

[RebelYell]

170. The people who want PEACE

are the good guys. That's a start.

[loudsue]

172. Thanks for the 'welcome back', KOHO, and Shraby, you're correct.....

finding the "white hats" is the trick.

Kerry MAY be one of the white hats -- even if he is a NWO kind of guy. Clinton MAY be one of them....we really don't know yet. But I'll say this much: Nine Plame threads down the road, we've already found out more than we ever dreamed of just 2 weeks ago...so why not this??

One thing we KNOW FOR SURE.... the bush's, and those most closely related to them, ARE NOT THE WHITE HATS!!! It's a possible place to start, no?

Looking at the Bilderberger's 2004 meeting list....Bill Gates' wife, Melinda, is on there: You were mentioning the backward countries, riddled with disease and civil strife. Well, look at how the Gates foundation has tried to help ease the AIDs problem in Africa (and across the globe), and look at how the BFEE and their oil buddies, gold mines, diamond mines (Pat Robertson) have raped the same populations that the Gates family is trying to help. The Microsoft Monopoly family may not be our idea of "white hats" from the perspective of a 200-year-old Democracy, with all of our "American Dream" national pride and patriotism, but on a global perspective, they are a far sight better than the bush family!

There is a lot more research we can do, and we can also look more open-mindedly at the prospects of a New World Order, and what we would LIKE it to look like....realistically, of course, because it's still going to be ruled by the elite. We just need to find the "elite" that have a heart in their chests, and then brainstorm what kind of progressive effect we might be able to have as a global community of cyber-activists.

I'm not ready to roll-over and give up my Constitution and Bill of Rights, mind you, without a stink. And there still may be things we can do in real time to make any transition more gentle for all of us.

We MAY even be able to save our country! Getting the black box voting thing straightened out is a BIG start. Honest elections should be the ONE thing that we fight for in every country, even WITH a New World Order. (A NWO does not have to be fascist/totalitarian!) But we have to fight for that right, just like our forefathers/mothers did.

Reading what I've read on these 9 threads, and knowing what I've learned through these past years, I think the handwriting on the wall is that there WILL be a NWO with or without my/our consent. We just have to do the research, and involve ourselves at a higher level of awareness (and open-mindedness) than we have previously, and engage the "white hats" in a way that is mutually helpful. Just making it known that some "progressives" are willing to open the dialog may be a revelation that the extreme wealth and power players may find helpful....if not amusing! Ask yourself what YOU would do in their shoes.

[midwayer]

178. I'm afraid there might be quite a few

who won't budge that easily such as the traditionalist who value their soverieignty and consider the fact that we fought for our independence and our republic. One group Thom Hartmann calls the "Radical Middle" comes to mind. http://www.thomhartmann.com/radicalmiddle.shtml Includes me.

This is why has been a slow process, they seem to be pushing the envelope now in order to expedite. But you can only push it so far at a time as to not create a rebellion.

You have definitely placed a considerable amount of research & thought into this Sue. Interesting how the puzzle pieces appear to be coming together.

Mid

[Pallas180]

182. Sue "Just making it known that some "progressives" are willing

to open the dialog"

I do believe how many of the politicians including Clinton got caught
up and compromised.

Let's talk it over....yeah right.

And those that didn't agree with the NWO-One World Govt. ended up dead.

You seem to think that in the NWO there is going to be voting.

There isn't.

I suggest you google David Rockefeller, a major player in Bilderberger
and founder of the Trilateral, of which Bush 1 spent time as Chairman
and see what "benevolent" David's opinion of you and yours is and exactly how much freedom of choice he thinks you should have.

He gives China as an example of a wonderfully working model of One World Government.

BTW, do they vote in China???

[Jose Diablo]

168. I sounds good, but

If we look at the history of what these benevolent souls have done to other countries through the WTO, IMF we see a different picture. What I see is nothing but greed and complete disregard for the wellbeing of peoples that came under their power. I doubt we would find many if any benevolent souls. They remind me more of the French monarchy in the 1700's.

And we are next in their sights. They have the USA next on their agenda of conquest. If they take us down, they have the all they need to finish the job with the rest of the world.

I don't think there can be a common point of understanding with these people to negotiate. Negotiation implies a position of power. Right now with Bu$h and quite possibly with Kerry, we do not have a position of power. What do we have to negotiate with? Our promise to let them screw us and our children.

I agree the world needs to go to some form of world power, but not on the terms they decide. I would rather be dead than accept slavery. Any form of slavery. I won't give up my rights under God and the constitution. I don't think any of us should.

As to how to deal with them. That requires a lot of thought.

[shraby]

171. There will be no negotiation

once we figure out who is who. If necessary, they can be taken down one by one, or group by group. They didn't negotiate with us, they took what they wanted. After the election, it's time to go after them as hard as we can.

[Jose Diablo]

175. If we get to the election

Do you know where our navel fleet is right now. Most of it is sitting like ducks in the water off the coast of China.

We found out in an earlier thread that Bu$h senior and that dipstick Reagan gave the W88 suitcase bomb to China. China is in a position to cut sea lanes between the Atlantic and Pacific.

Bu$h/Cheney have been playing kissy kissy with both China and Russia. Long time enemies.

How do we know that it is not already planned that if they cannot take us politically, they will burn us.

I am all for patience. But I think its time for our patriots in DC to make a stand for America, not the NWO bullshit. And if they refuse, then pull their chains until they come home and find people that will make a stand and place them in control of our government.

[Pallas180]

186. JELLY - China & Russia made up. Dimson is a uniter, remember.-

He screwed around with them with the oil. Now China is going to
take oil from Russia.

Furthermore, SAudi Arabia is building a refinery for oil in China.

Oh Sonny Boy, how I revile theeeeeeee

Yup.

I wouldn't worry about China attacking us, yet. And dimson can't be stupid enough to fight them even if they attack Taiwan.

Nope. What is going to happen is China is going to march down into
Iraq and take over the chaos there. And that will fix dimson's wagon.

Give em 2 years before they do it.

It's a small jump from Afghanistan and Iraq into lower China. You tnink they're real comfortable with the biggest US Army base in the world being built there? I dont think soooooo.

[Pallas180]

185. SHRABY -MIDWAY boy oh boy.. couldn't hve said it better!! Go Shraby

shraby I'm with you. absolutely

And with Midway.

People died to save this democracy for real.

1776, 1812, 1942.

Their intention, according to one of their social scientists, is to
reprogram people. And when the ones with memory of the way it used to
be (that's us) die out it will be much easier for them

Isn;t that funny? Sounds to me llike Mao Tse Tung's re-training camps.

NO. NO. NO. A thousand times no.

Now you know why there are people hiding in the hills, survivalists,
fully armed. And we thought they were crazy.

[Pallas180]

183. Agreed Jelly. Deal with them? From behind the curtain, just as they do -

they practiced secrecy and guerilla warfare on us more or less.

And they deserve nothing more or less from us.

As ye sew, so shall ye reap.

Give the emperor his due, and to God what belongs to him.

And what do we owe these emperors? loyalty? did they give that to us
benevolence? did they give that to us.

We are talking about multi-nationals here. And the oil barons of old, and the bankers of old.

The way they believe the world should be is a return to the very early 1900's when they paid a working man $5 a week. WHICH is exactly what they are doing in Asia .

this is benevolence or is it a form of slavery?

[Pallas180]

179. SUE-I could agree with most until the last 2 paragraphs - you

nor any of the "common man" are not going to have a vote or anopportunity to play one off the other. There are no benevolent souls that control the Bilderbergers. They are the major banking/brokerage houses of the world and they couldn't give a damn
about your wanting to be nice and play with them.

Your pocket is fodder for their 25% interest on their credit card.
Your body is fodder for their wars as is both your male and female
children.

They have been smart and stayed behind the curtain, and so will
those who reveal them and fight them.

A New World Order is coming?

Well I sure hope not in my lifetime. Cause I don;'t want to see the
death of individuality and creativity.

I am not as willing to accept its inevitability as you seem to be.

Round pegs are not good at fitting into square holes.

If I was good at regimentation, I'd be a republican.

[loudsue]

192. I'm not saying we roll-over to the inevitability.....

Like I said in my post....I won't give up my Constitution or Bill of Rights without a fight. That's what we are doing on DU with our letters, protests, activism....and if need be, putting our lives on the line.

What I was hoping to do was to keep our minds open, and to think outside of the box about the direction we may be headed. I think it prudent to consider the options.

If there indeed ARE members of the extremely powerful who have benevolent natures (and we don't know yet if there are any such people or not -- I think you're assuming they're "all" monsters: I'm not sure, because I don't know who they all ARE), then we should consider who they are, and where, and HOW they view the direction things are going.

The Bilderbergers are not the end game....there are still those more powerful who sponsor them. They are far more hidden than the list of Bilderbergers we've seen. The Bilderbergers are worker bees for others. David Rockefeller is a monster...he's like the BFEE. But JAY Rockefeller hasn't been drinking the same kool-aid.

The lens that we've been seeing through on these threads has been about a global swarm of fascist slave-makers, thieves, thugs, and blood-sucking vampires. We have exposed a devastating CONSPIRACY of global dominance. And maybe you're right: maybe all the good ones get killed! But by the same token, MAYBE there are some that are cut from a better cloth. That's all I'm saying. If they're around, I'd sure like to know who they are, and what they can see that might be helpful!

I feel one good place to look for them is to look at where any POWERFUL opposition to the bush mafia, or David Rockefeller types, is coming from, at the highest levels. Call me Pollyanna, but I can't help but wonder if there isn't a person with an errant gene among the uber rich, who still has a personal code of ethics that might be favorable.

We face a major battle, and the big boys have the big guns, not to mention the most atrocious new wave of gene/race-specific biological weapons, and electronic weapons that will fry the brains of millions of people at a time. It's time to look (research) for some allies in high places. That doesn't preclude fighting to keep what we have, and building on it. NOT as the only alternative plan to fight this battle, but as a part of it.

[Pallas180]

194. The only possibility I can think of is Ted Turner and they stripped

him of his billion dollars too.

They harrassed Gates with multi million dollar lawsuits until he caught on that he should join, and I think that;s what Melinda Gates
was doing there. They couldn't ignore the second richest man in America.

Interesting Warren Buffett is not on the list. But he's tight with
Arnold Schwarzenegger. That can't be good.

Maybe we ought to get a list of the Fortune 500.

Or a list of the Silicon Valley millionaires. That might be a good bet. Gates made a lot of people rich and they retired at like the age of 30 and are doing good works.

Paul Allen???

There are a few we could look up. And what are we going to say.
The Bilderberg organization has spread around the world like a virus
and is planning on installing a One World Governmenet next week. Will
you help us fight it?

"sarcasm off"

I'd make the little shrugging guy, but my computer won't let me (:

ps - I betcha Ted Turner knows all aabout it. That man is no dummy and I met him once. Larger than life and he exudes power. I wonder if
they've broken him. He's been awfully quiet.

[shraby]

197. I think a coalition of good

journalists, Josh Marshall, Conason, etc. would be our best bet to recruit. With us digging and them publishing. All powerful people have an achilles heel..exploit it. Create dissension..divide and conquer.

We have to start with our own country first. Anyone who has actively blocked any investigations into dubya and pnac should be targeted for removal from congress, republican or democrat. We need a list of all senators and representatives and vet them ourselves.

[Pallas180]

199. Dem Evan Bahy for one. Good strategy SHRABY

I always wondered why he didn't come
strongly for democratic prinicple, bills, on tv sounded like agreeing
with rethugs. He's on the list.

[shraby]

200. You got the idea.

Now we need a list we can print out of all senators and reps...every last stinking one of them. It's clean house time..we can get some this election and in two years nab some more.

[Pallas180]

201. Niters all.

[shraby]

202. G'nite

don't let the bedbugs bite.

[Pallas180]

195. Has America Been G-8'd, IMF'd, and World Banked?

Multi-Nationals strip nations of resources and weaken them,purposely.

And it is just when a nation is weakened, when it becomes a debtor nation,as America is now, that it is susceptible to "structural adjustment policies"ordered by the IMF and World Bank . In order to qualify for loans from the IMF and The World BAnk they dictate currency devaluation, cutting of social safety nets, cutting of health care, and labor laws, the privatization of resources and the transfer of wealth out of the country. There are rollbacks in environmental regulations, and cutting of overtime pay, re-adjustment of Social Security and Medicare, .

The privatized corporations do not re-invest the wealth from the natural resources back into the country; they go where production is cheapest so their bottom line profit is larger, causing further loss of jobs. There's less jobs, less money,and less rights.

Money is poured into police and para military forces because eventually there is going to be civil unrest because the country has broken its social contract with its people.

Does any of this sound familiar?

We've been G-8'd.Third world countried.
America is the biggest debtor country in the world
to the World Bank and the IMF. And the people we have been talking about online are behind the World Bank and the IMF.
We are weakened and we have actually been taken over already with the help of dimson who has rammed these cuts of social programs and of medical care through Congress with the help of his neo-con House of Representatives.Everything he can privatize has been privatized.

The final step is just the formality of an announced change in govt. Whether it will be called PNAC dictatorship, The New World Order or One World Government - the preparations are made, and this is why Senator Jay Rockefeller is saying this is the most dangerous moment in our history".

This election is going to show whether they dare move ahead with the full castrating of the Constitution of the United States.

[shraby]

204. One last thought

We need to recruit ALL du-ers to help with figuring out which congresscritters are worth keeping and which are not worth a plugged nickel and most important which are downright dangerous to the health of this country..like DeLay, Frist and Zell.

[Pallas180]

242. SCHRABY. agreed.add Sxby Chambliss -Starroute I think is good at

that kind of thing if we can enlist her. Hell of a good
researcher and a bulldog when she gets onto something.

It will also lead her to all those "connections" shes' raring
to get into.

[loudsue]

206. I just returned from reading the BevHarris thread...all 200+ posts...

and what I learned at the end of that thread has my head reeling. I thought I had heard it all....but there's more.

Joanne98 (I think that was her full name) was talking about how NAFTA and GATT and the soon-to-be GATTS are allowing companies a way to go International in such a way that any time you sue them, it goes to an international court, where you don't even know who the judges are, and, apparently, so far NOBODY has successfully won a lawsuit against a corporation that files as a certain type of corporation... not Canada's lawsuit, not California's lawsuits....nobody! It puts them all out of range of the USA.

This was the first I'd heard of any of that. I'm VERY afraid.

[midwayer]

209. For more

on the subject at hand you should read what Larouche has to say.

Many have labeled him a nut but, if we are to believe of the global conpiracy then you must believe now what Larouche has been saying is true. His writings give a detailed background of the history of the Globalist's (Synarchists) and just how critical of a time we are in. He has much information regarding these issues on his websites.
You do know they wanted to kill him because he knew too much and wanted to fight them. They ended up railroading him through the court system and imprisoning him.

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2004/site_packages/312...

[midwayer]

210. Be careful

posting links to his site or talking too much about L******e. Apparently some here at DU do not agree as they pulled some of my posts regarding him.

He's actually right on target with this issue IMO and knows the extensive background.

I think part of the reason why they don't want to hear what he says is because he has attacked Terry McAuliffe for "following the money"

[midwayer]

211. Here he talks

about the ongoing global financial collapse as well as the other threats to the US and the world today. He gets fairly detailed as to the reasons why throughout his publications. He has some critical things to say about John Kerry as well. Non- partisan BTW he is a Dem.

If you dig you can find a wealth of info

"What is certain is, that were the present Bush-Cheney Administration reelected in November, a general financial crash, a Schachtian world government, a fascist one advised by a neo-Schachtian Felix Rohatyn or Robert Mundell, controlled by vulture funds, combined with a prompt unleashing of Cheney's and Blair's Fabian Society-like policies of a rolling, world-wide, perpetual warfare according to the doctrine of preventive nuclear warfare which created the presently hopeless U.S. situation in Iraq, are assured."

[midwayer]

212. Dig Dig Dig

If you dig you will find the names you are looking for. Either who the players are, others who are not mentioned in your list, or the ones who are willing to stand up and fight for the cause.

[midwayer]

213. Right Wing thoughts on this conspiracy

Conspiracism

"Our society and our culture is not a conspiracy. There are no cynics at the top of the pyramid who use their power to maintain an unnecessarily unequal society. Stratified society is perpetuated because of the self-interest that everybody has in not sinking down."

This site also blasts L*******e and says he is a facist...LOL
Hipocrytes.

He is EXPOSING them

[midwayer]

215. Link

http://www.publiceye.org/top_conspire.html

[Jose Diablo]

214. I am not sure LaRouche was railroaded

Operating from memory here, but I seem to remember some newspaper articles in '84 discussing how LaRouche's campaign financier's were defrauding elderly by getting a small campaign donation from elderly contributors credit card, then clicking the cash register for $1000's more with fraudulent unauthorized 'donations'.

They were busted and LaRouche went to jail.

Am I wrong in what I remember about LaRouche?

[midwayer]

216. Morning JellyBean

All I can do is direct you to his side of the story here

http://www.larouchepub.com/exon/exon_toc.html

[midwayer]

217. Latest Publication

http://larouchein2004.net/pages/other/2004/040614cos3ar...

[midwayer]

222. Exoneration Petition Signatures

You want names? Here are your names

http://larouchein2004.net/exoneration/signat1.htm

[Jose Diablo]

220. I would very cautious with LaRouche

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche

LaRouche and the NCLC

In 1969 LaRouche formed the National Caucus of Labor Committees (NCLC), a grouping of ex-SDS activists and other ex-Trotskyists. Despite its name the NCLC had no significant connection with the labor movement. It soon developed the hallmarks of a cult, with a charismatic leader (LaRouche), a catastrophist and conspiratorial ideology, and an esoteric vocabulary known only to initiates. NCLC members gave up their jobs and private lives and became entirely devoted to the group and its leader. Like many cults, the LaRouche organization developed an internal discipline technique, called "ego stripping," which reinforced conformity and loyalty to LaRouche.

In the 1970s LaRouche developed an intense interest in fascism, and began to adopt some of its slogans and practices, while maintaining (as he still does) an outward stance of anti-fascism. He began to regard himself and his followers as "Prometheans," superior to all other people, and under his direction the NCLC adopted violent and disruptive tactics, physically attacking meetings of the SWP, the Communist Party and other groups, who were classed by LaRouche as "left-protofascists." During "Operation Mop-Up," NCLC members engaged in a series of well-documented beatings of members of these groups. Some ex-NCLC members who left the group at this time say that LaRouche was studying the career of Adolf Hitler and consciously adopting the tactics of the early Nazi Party.

During the 1970s LaRouche steered the NCLC away from the left and towards the extreme right, while retaining some of the slogans and attitudes of the left (as did the founder of fascism, the ex-Socialist Benito Mussolini, and many others since). The Marxist concept of the ruling class was converted by LaRouche into a gigantic conspiracy theory, in which world capitalism was controlled by a secret cabal including the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, Henry Kissinger, the Council on Foreign Relations and other standard villains of the extreme right, many though not all of them Jewish. LaRouche added some novel variations on this theme. The heart of the conspiracy, according to LaRouche, was the financial elite of the City of London. LaRouche has always been violently anti-British - a trait shared by many American isolationists - and has included Queen Elizabeth II, among others, in his list of conspirators.

In the 1980s LaRouche's political rhetoric and accusations grew more detached from generally accepted reality. Hitler had been a British agent as was Marx. Menachem Begin was a Nazi. The Beatles were "a product shaped according to British Psychological Warfare Division specifications." Both Communism or Fascism were facets of the great overarching conspiracy of the "Synarchy," an oligarchical network of financiers and manipulators who rule the world. Only LaRouche and his "humanist elite" fully understand this vast conspiracy, and possess the willpower and knowledge to withstand it. LaRouche's personal egotism is a significant force driving his politics. In 1979 he wrote: "My principal accomplishment is that of being, by a large margin of advantage, the leading economist of the twentieth century to date." Some of LaRouche's conspiracy theories appear to border on self-parody, "Who is pushing the world toward war?" he asked in 1981. "It is the forces behind the World Wildlife Fund, the Club of Rome, and the heritage of H. G. Wells and the evil Bertrand Russell."

There is much more there.

But I don't think LaRouche is a credable leader, from what I see in his background. He seems like as much of a Fascist as Bu$h.

[Jose Diablo]

223. More on LaRouche and fraud

Start quote from Wikipedia:

"The size of the LaRouche empire led to investigations of the source of its apparently extensive financial resources. Like most cults, the LaRouche organisation devotes much of its energy to the sale of literature and the soliciting of small donations at airports and on university campuses. It also operates more sophisticated telemarketing groups, soliciting donations by phone, usually under the guise of various patriotic front organisations to conceal the real source of the phone calls. More seriously, however, LaRouche was accused of fraudently soliciting "loans" from vulnerable elderly people, sometimes giving completely misleading explanations for the loan ("funding the Strategic Defense Initiative" or "finding a cure for AIDS"). The funds thus raised were then directed into a maze of dummy companies so as to avoid both taxation and attempts to recover the "loans."

In October 1986 the FBI and Virginia state authorities raided the LaRouche headquarters in Leesburg in search of evidence to support the persistent accusations of fraud and extortion made against LaRouche. He and six associates were charged with conspiracy and mail fraud, and LaRouche was also charged with conspiring to hide his personal income since 1979, the last year he had filed a federal tax return. In December 1988 a federal jury in Alexandria, Virginia convicted LaRouche and his associates, and LaRouche was sentenced to fifteen years in prison, of which he served five.

The prosecution alleged that LaRouche and his staff solicited loans with false assurances to potential lenders and showed "reckless disregard" of the facts. Assistant U.S. Attorney Kent Robinson presented evidence that LaRouche's organisation had solicited US$34 million in loans since 1983. The most important evidence was the testimony of lenders, many of them elderly retirees, who had lost thousands of dollars in loans to LaRouche that were never repaid. Several witnesses were LaRouche followers who testified under immunity from prosecution.

In addition to LaRouche, his chief fund-raiser, William Wertz, was convicted on ten mail fraud counts. LaRouche's legal adviser, Edward Spannaus, and several other fundraising operatives were convicted of conspiracy to commit mail fraud. LaRouche denied all the charges, calling them "an all-out frame-up by a state and federal task force," and said that the federal government was trying to kill him. "The purpose of this frame-up is not is not to send me to prison. It's to kill me," LaRouche said. "In prison it's fairly easy to kill me... If this sentence goes through, I'm dead." This proved to be another false prediction: LaRouche was released unharmed in 1993."

End quote of background on how he gets money.

Does anybody really think this guy belongs in our camp? I don't.

[midwayer]

224. I would be careful

with what we read about Larouche from other sources as well

Remember he is attempting to expose these guys and the launched a sertious defamation campaign against him.

I am not pushing Larouche in a political sense but what he has to say regarding todays issues seems very prevelant and goes right along the investigation into exposing the facists/global elite who he says railroaded him.

[Jose Diablo]

228. All I am saying about LaRouche is he

had as much to do with screwing the Left Progressive movement as BFEE.

True LaRouche didn't assassinate its leaders, but to suborn the movements energy by establishing and then corrupting the NCLB with a false pro labor philosophy, well this is just too much for me.

It looks like to me LaRouche was more interested in aquiring wealth via soliciting money than advancing any progressive causes.

How come LaRouche didn't serve the full 15 years sentence he received? I think he should be sent back to finish his sentence.

[midwayer]

229. Let me see what I can find out about that (eom)

[Jose Diablo]

231. I'd like to hear from bigbillhayward

on his thoughts on LaRouche. Bigbill seems to be a good historian on what happened to the left movement in America. I respect his thoughts on progressive issues and history.

[midwayer]

232. Where do I find his works?

Can you direct me?

[Jose Diablo]

235. Bigbill is the SN of a DUer right on this board

Bill Hayward was a member of the progressive left (american communist) movement early in the 1900's. He was one of the early fighters for Labor rights in the early Industrial Age. He was what was was called a 'wobbly' after the organizations name, WWWW. The actual Bill Hayward is in the grave I am pretty sure.

You may want to read Dos Century by Studs Turkle to learn of Bill Hayward.

[midwayer]

236. I see it's Haywood

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/haywoo...

[Pallas180]

243. LOUDSUE-the answer to that might be BOYCOTT their products-&

let them know they're being boycotted by all Americans who are
afraid to use their products as too dangerous if they are so
afraid of being sued.

What do you think of that?

[RebelYell]

218. Bilderberg program on History channel

I just caught the last 10 min. of it.

I'm shocked it's in the mainstream.

That A-hole Daniel Pipes was on, saying, "It's just not true." But he wouldn't say what they do or discuss at their annual meeting either. They made him look like the liar he is.

The people that are looking into Bilderberg are in the UK. Most Americans don't have a clue, and when confronted with it, deny it or tell you it's tinfoil.

I wish I had seen the entire program.

[H2O Man]

226. They show it frequently.

I've watched it before. I give it an A+. It exposes the group for what they are, and puts it into a pretty good context.

[Pallas180]

244. REB - is Pipes on the list?

?

[H2O Man]

219. Good morning!

I would like all those people who have authored and mailed letter(s) on the Plame Indictment to line-up and count off by "one." I am not asking how many letters you have sent; although later in the week, I will be asking that. Rather, I am asking only if you have been active in the mail campaign. The reason is because I am going to work on a "flier" for our group ..... and, of course, will be asking for ideas on it as the day progresses.

Thank you for your assistance!

[RebelYell]

221. I sent

LTTE's, emails and the letter to JW's publisher

[coeur_de_lion]

225. TWO

[kohodog]

227. Three, and Good Morning to you! n/t

[H2O Man]

230. Help!

Can Pallas180 or one of our other talented participants please start a new thread? The reasons for this include: (1) a great post in "editorials & other articles" by mandyky ("David Corn: Bashing Joe Wilson") which mandyky and I think would be lost at the bottom of a long thread; (2) we might do well to re-focus attention on Wilson, Plame, the Grand Jury, and our letter-writing campaign.

I'm not trying to tell people what to discuss. But I will say that if we go too far out on discussing a new world order, we simply sound too far out, and we marginalize ourselves. We will find other sources trying to discredit us soon enough: a couple folks on here have already noted a few shadows.

Also, and I say this respectfully, talking about LaRouche immediately marginalizes us. Saying that if you believe the information on these 9 threads means you agree with him, is the same as saying that if you believe the USA has a problem with racism means you subscribe to the teachings of Louis Farrakkan.

It would be appreciated if someone could start thread # 10 with the David Corn post, and perhaps include our letter-writers line-up. Also, perhaps a few of the "high-light" posts.

Thank you.

[midwayer]

233. Good point actually

that is why I was so surprised to see you guys going into the Bilderberg issue. Sorry about bringing up Larouche but, you cannot deny that his writings contain many names and historical background. The exoneraton petition I would look very closely at for "white hat" names. Maybe even a phone call or two would be in order.

My main thought was really that IF true it shows you just how nasty the game can be played.

It is a very delicate issue to be sure

[coeur_de_lion]

234. starting thread 10 -- give me time -- don't duplicate, please

[Pallas180]

245. H20 - I sent letters (32) + 2 faxes

.

[coeur_de_lion]

237. started thread 10

Please go here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...