PLAME INDICTMENTS THREAD #9 High Crimes & Misdemeanors

PLAME INDICTMENTS THREAD 9 -High Crimes & Misdemeanors


Links to previous 8 threads

If and when indictments come down in the Plame case,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

300+ DU thread now as MSWord.doc (easier download)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

If and when indictments come down in the Plame case-thread2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments.....Thread 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments.....Thread 4
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments.....Thread 5
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments......thread 6
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments .... thread 7
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

Plame indictments..... thread 8
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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BELOW ARE LETTERS/GUIDES TO FAX/EMAIL/SNAIL MAIL TO CONGRESS & MEDIA TO JOG THEM INTO ACTION & INCLUDING A TOLL FREE PHONE NUMBER

278. CONTACT CONGRESS & LEADERSHIP ADDRESSES:


Fax Numbers of US Congress

http://www.no-smoking.org/feb97/2-17-97-01.html


Congressional Leadership

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-bin/leadership.cg ...


Congressional Committees & Subcommittees

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-bin/committee_lis ...


Misc. Contact Congress

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/search.html


CALIMARY MEDIA & EDITORS CONTACT LIST


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...


Updated Calimary list

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...


Individual Reporters & Newspaper List

forgive me, it's on the drudge rag site, but it's useful

http://www.drudgereport.com /
_______________________________________________________________
1 (800) 839 - 5276 - TOLL FREE Capitol Hill Switchboard number! They'll transfer you to any House/Senate office you name!



H20's SUGGESTED LETTER TO MEDIA & CONGRESS

for you to copy or use as a guide to send:
Here's a suggestion ......


Dear _________;

I am writing to express my concerns about on-going efforts to discredit Ambassador Joseph Wilson. In his NYT Op-Ed article "What I Didn't Find In Africa," Wilson exposed a claim by President Bush in his 2003 State of the Union Address to be untrue. Since that time, the White House has been involved in an effort to destroy Wilson's reputation, which included exposing his wife as a CIA operative.

In John Dean's review of Wilson's book (NYT Book Review; 5-23-04; pg9) he documents that two days after the op-ed article ran, journalist Robert Novak was telling people that Wilson's wife Valerie Plame was a CIS "weapons of mass destruction specialist."

Novak exposed Plame's identity in a 7-14-03 column. He sourced his story to two "senior administration officials." These two senior White House officials had lobbied at least six journalists to expose Plame in what Dean calls a "you-hurt-us-we-will-hurt-you warning" to those tempted to expose administration "misinformation."

When Wilson appeared on MSNBC's "Countdown," host Keith Olbermann held up three identical e-mails from the White House. Olbermann explained their intent was to discredit Wilson with their "talking points."

Wilson has noted that Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security advisor pointed out that since the Bush people never back down, the fact that they had admitted an error after the op-ed article indicated "they must have something more important to protect." (The Politics of Truth, by Wilson; pg4)

Joseph Klein's 7-5-04 article in Time (Plenty More to Swear About; pg 21) reveals that Plame was "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components" when her identity was exposed by the White House. "Only a high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the pay-roll," an intelligence source told Klein.

There is clearly more to this story than the White House and senate republicans are willing to tell the public. What investigation by Plame needed to be derailed by the White House? I hope that national leaders and the media will focus attention on this important issue.

Sincerely,


____________________________________________________________________

KOHO'S SHORT & SWEET SUGGESTED LETTER TO SEND


Dear_________;

I am writing about the outing of CIA Agent Valerie Plame. It seems that the Grand jury Investigation has wrapped up or will soon, but little has been mentioned of late. What may have been political payback to Joe Wilson for refuting the Niger yellowcake claims in the State of the Union address could have actually made this country a great deal less safe. According to Joseph Klein (Time 7-5-04--Plenty More to Swear About), Plame may have been "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components." If this is true (or even a possibility, those responsible must be brought to justice. I submit that underground trafficking of WMD components presents a far more imminent threat to our country than Saddam Hussein did. In my mind this certainly achieves the status of "High Crimes," and I urge you to not let this issue fall by the wayside. The security of our country may have been irretrievably harmed by a few high ranking officials and they must be brought to task.

Sincerely,


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PALLAS' 'GIVE EM HELL' SUGGESTED LETTER

Dear ____________


Concerning Time magazine's Joe Klein's July 5 article, page 21 revealed that Valerie Plame was "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of Weapons of Mass Destruction components"" when her identity was exposed by the White House. It also said" Only a high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge" that Valerie Plame was a covert CIA agent.

1) Our study group has found that Vice President Cheney since 1995 as CEO of Halliburton was fined 1.2 milion dollars for illegal sales of similar components to Libya. Shortly before becoming Vice President he bitterly assailed US policy against selling such components to Syrria and Iran, which apparently hurt Halliburton's bottom line.

2) Our study group has also found that there is an investigation of Vice President Cheney in other countries for illegal bribery and various other offenses connected to Halliburton as well as paying amounts to secret Swiss bank accounts

3)The Atomic Energy Commission has said a North American company is one of 20 being investigated for black market sales of WMD materials.

Our study group suspects there is more to the White House revealing Valerie Plame's covert CIA status since the Republicans refuse to hold investigations on the matter.

Frankly, it would appear to us that possibly Valerie Plame was stopped in her tracks and the CIA sting operation was exposed because it was coming close to discovering another violation of the laws by our own Vice President and the Hallibuton company he has awarded billions of US taxpayer dollars to in non-bid contracts.

There is a question of where the Vice President's and President's loyalty lies: to their Corporate friends and company's bottom line or to the security and wellbeing of the America.n people?

In any case, the exposure of Valerie Plame by the White House was and is treasonous.

The responsibility of the Media and Congress is to expose these wrong doings, investigate and safeguard against this type of occurrence for the American people.

WHY are you not fulfilling your role to me, to my study group, and the rest of the American people in this country and WHEN will you start ?


Sincerely

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Arbustochupa's lettter

Dear _________;

I am writing to express my concerns about on-going efforts to discredit Ambassador Joseph Wilson. In his NYT Op-Ed article "What I Didn't Find In Africa," Wilson exposed a claim by President Bush in his 2003 State of the Union Address to be untrue. Since that time, the White House has been involved in an effort to destroy Wilson's reputation, which included exposing his wife as a CIA operative.

In John Dean's review of Wilson's book (NYT Book Review; 5-23-04; pg9) he documents that two days after the op-ed article ran, journalist Robert Novak was telling people that Wilson's wife Valerie Plame was a CIS "weapons of mass destruction specialist."

Novak exposed Plame's identity in a 7-14-03 column. He sourced his story to two "senior administration officials." These two senior White House officials had lobbied at least six journalists to expose Plame in what Dean calls a "you-hurt-us-we-will-hurt-you warning" to those tempted to expose administration "misinformation."

When Wilson appeared on MSNBC's "Countdown," host Keith Olbermann held up three identical e-mails from the White House. Olbermann explained their intent was to discredit Wilson with their "talking points."

Wilson has noted that Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security advisor pointed out that since the Bush people never back down, the fact that they had admitted an error after the op-ed article indicated "they must have something more important to protect." (The Politics of Truth, by Wilson; pg4)

Joseph Klein's 7-5-04 article in Time (Plenty More to Swear About; pg 21) reveals that Plame was "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components" when her identity was exposed by the White House. "Only a high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the pay-roll," an intelligence source told Klein.

There is clearly more to this story than the White House and senate republicans are willing to tell the public. What investigation by Plame needed to be derailed by the White House? I hope that national leaders and the media will focus attention on this important issue.

Sincerely,

___________________________________________________________________

Why did BushCO allow Iraqi nuclear materials to be LOOTED immediately after the invasion and for weeks to follow?

old thread from October 2003


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http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A39500-2003Aug...

In an interview with the New York Times published Sept. 6, Card did not mention the WHIG but hinted at its mission. "From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August," he said.

<snip>The day after publication of Card's marketing remark, Bush and nearly all his top advisers began to talk about the dangers of an Iraqi nuclear bomb.

Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair conferred at Camp David that Saturday, Sept. 7, and they each described alarming new evidence. Blair said proof that the threat is real came in "the report from the International Atomic Energy Agency this morning, showing what has been going on at the former nuclear weapon sites." Bush said "a report came out of the . . . IAEA, that they were six months away from developing a weapon. I don't know what more evidence we need."

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http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/08/iraq.debate /

Rice acknowledged that "there will always be some uncertainty" in determining how close Iraq may be to obtaining a nuclear weapon but said, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

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http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/2002100...

Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud. - G. Bush, 10/7/02

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http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/6068775.htm
Looting of Iraqi nuclear facility indicts U.S. goals
If we feared the loss of radioactive materials, why not guard them?
TRUDY RUBIN
Knight Ridder Newspapers
Posted on Thu, Jun. 12, 2003

TUWAITHA, Iraq - On a dusty road, just outside of Baghdad, lies one of the great mysteries of the Iraq war.

<snip>The administration knew full well what was stored at Tuwaitha. So how is it possible that the U.S. military failed to secure the nuclear facility until weeks after the war started? This left looters free to ransack the barrels, dump their contents, and sell them to villagers for storage.

How is it possible that, according to Iraqi nuclear scientists, looters are still stealing radioactive isotopes? The Tuwaitha story makes a mockery of the administration's vaunted concern with weapons of mass destruction. The U.S. military hastened to secure the Ministry of Oil in Baghdad from looters. But Iraq's main nuclear facility was apparently not important enough to get similar protection.

<snip>And why, in facilities other than Location C, is the looting apparently continuing? Hisham Abdel Malik, a Iraqi nuclear scientist who lives near Tuwaitha and has been inside the complex, told me that in buildings "where there are radioactive isotopes, there is looting every day." He says the isotopes, which are in bright silver containers, "are sold in the black market or kept in homes." According to IAEA spokeswoman Melissa Fleming, such radioactive sources can kill on contact or pollute whole neighborhoods.

How could an administration that had hyped the danger of Saddam handing off nuclear materials to terrorists let Tuwaitha be looted? Maybe the hype was just hype ... or maybe the Pentagon didn't send enough troops to Iraq to do the job right.

Either answer is damning.<more>

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http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/World/reuters20030716_19...
U.N. in Dark About Looted Iraq Dirty Bomb Material
July 16
By Louis Charbonneau

VIENNA (Reuters) - The U.N. nuclear watchdog said Wednesday it had accounted for most of the low-grade uranium lost during looting at Iraq's main nuclear facility, but had no information about more dangerous radioactive material.

<snip>But an IAEA spokeswoman said the agency had not been permitted by U.S. occupation authorities to check the status of Tuwaitha's stocks of highly-radioactive cesium-137, cobalt-160 and other materials which could be used in dirty bombs.

"There were around 400 of these radioactive sources stored at Tuwaitha," IAEA's Melissa Fleming said.

Witnesses have said that villagers near Tuwaitha, especially children, have shown symptoms of radiation sickness.

"Any case of radiation sickness would probably be from these highly-radioactive sources, not from the low-grade natural uranium at Location C," Fleming said.<more>

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http://www.counterpunch.org/schwarz07172003.html
July 17, 2003
Bush's Pre-emptive Strike Doctrine
The Bane of Non-Proliferation Watchdogs
By MARTIN SCHWARZ

<snip>Bush's use of the specter of nuclear threat to legitimate his intimidation policy can also been seen as just another excuse if reports from occupied post-war Iraq are taken into account. When the reports about massive looting in Iraq's biggest nuclear facility Al-Tuwaitha emerged after the war, the U.S. administration rejected the IAEA's request to send inspectors to that facility for more than a month. El-Baradei didn't even get an answer to his letters to U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell. Meanwhile, strange things must have happened in Al-Tuwaitha: The IAEA in Vienna received several phone calls from U.S. soldiers based at the facility to secure it, who didn't know what to do with nuclear material they had found.<more>

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http://www.sierrasun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200...
July 18, 2003
Bush's actions don't match the rhetoric
Guest Column by Kirk Caraway

<snip>Turn back the clock to the before the war. You "know" your enemy has 100-500 tons of chemical weapons, and you know where he is likely hiding them. Wouldn't you try to secure those sites as quickly as possible? After all, these chemical weapons posed a major threat to our advancing troops, and the big danger, they said, was if these fall into the hands of terrorists.

So why wasn't this done? Special Forces teams were flown into Iraq to secure the oil fields, but not the weapons. That speaks volumes about what the real reason for the war is.

And those weapons are still missing. Rumsfeld claims they are doing their best to search all those sites, but this is disconcerting. How many days have his 150,000 soldiers had to search the sites they already know about?

And what about the nukes? If Bush and his people really thought that Iraq had an active nuclear weapons program, why did the military wait for more than a week after taking over the region to even visit the country's main nuclear research facilities at Tuwaitha?

Why did they wait even longer to visit the neighboring Baghdad Nuclear Research Facility? Both sites were heavily looted, so if there were plans for a nuclear bomb or even some weapons-grade material, it would be long gone by now.<more>

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http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,10564...
Saddam's nuclear arsenal? A scattering of yellow powder
Villagers sell deadly uranium to the US army at $3 a barrel
Patrick Graham in Al Mansia
Sunday October 5, 2003
The Observer

Dhia Ali makes a throwing motion as he tells how he dumped out the blue barrels of powder. The nine-year-old and his brother, Hussein, weren't looking for weapons of mass destruction when they went into the low brown buildings, known to UN weapons inspectors as Location C, near his home last April. They just wanted the blue barrels.

The yellow cake powder they poured out and breathed into their lungs - a form of natural uranium - was part of the nuclear programme which, the Iraq Survey Group's recent report claims, somewhat vaguely, was being restarted before the last war. The report won't do much for Dhia or Hussein - they haven't even been examined by a doctor yet.

<snip>The report's claim that Iraq was revamping its nuclear programme in such a way that it could constitute any serious threat was described as 'ridiculous' by the scientist. By 1991, when the he left the programme, Iraq had succeeded in producing no more than one kilogram of enriched uranium - 6 to 14 kgs short of a bomb. By 1997, the programme had been exposed and most of its capabilities destroyed. <more>
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3872201.st ...

Last Updated: Wednesday, 7 July, 2004, 04:39 GMT 05:39 UK



US reveals Iraq nuclear operation

Abraham called the operation a "major achievement"
The US has revealed that it removed more than 1.7 metric tons of radioactive material from Iraq in a secret operation last month.
"This operation was a major achievement," said US Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham in a statement.

He said it would keep "potentially dangerous nuclear materials out of the hands of terrorists".

Along with 1.77 tons of enriched uranium, about 1,000 "highly radioactive sources" were also removed.

The material was taken from a former nuclear research facility on 23 June, after being packaged by 20 experts from the US Energy Department's secret laboratories.

It was flown out of the country aboard a military plane in a joint operation with the Department of Defense, and is being stored temporarily at a Department of Energy facility.

The United Nations nuclear watchdog - the International Atomic Energy Agency - and Iraqi officials were informed ahead of the operation, which happened ahead of the 28 June handover of sovereignty.

'Dirty bomb'?

The explosion of a so-called "dirty bomb" in a city by a terrorist group is a major concern of Western intelligence agencies.

Rather than causing a nuclear explosion, a "dirty bomb" would see radioactive material combined with a conventional explosive - probably causing widespread panic and requiring a large clean-up operation.

barrels of yellow cake uranium that the kids were emptying out and
selling for $3 a barrel.

The pentagon did not order anyone to guard the uranium once it was discovered just like they didn't tell anyone to guard the thousands
of stockpiled out in the open mines, rifles, shoulder missile firers
grenades, and all the stuff that the "insurgents" are using aginst
US soldiers.

Now that is a strange thing.

WHY would rummy leave that stuff available to anyone walking by??

and allow the capability of a dirty bomb being created with the unguarded material?

hmmmmm?

Everything had been catologued and stored by the UN weapons inspectors. This was a well-known nuclear site. BushCO could have made plans in advance to secure it immediately, had they cared to.

they then left it open and unguarded, as I remember.

We did not have enough troops to protect the nuclear stockpile, ammo dumps, AND the oil ministry.

in the last couple of weeks? I haven't seen any.

repost

A THEORY ON THE WHY - Plame -> Cheney->Halliburton

On my way home today, as I thought about the why the outing of Valerie Plame was necessary, I was so engrossed I drove 4 exits past my exit.

Here's what we know:

1) Valerie Plame was "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of Weapons of Mass Destruction components"" when her identity was exposed by the White House. It also said" Only a high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge" that Valerie Plame was a covert CIA agent.

2) Vice President Cheney since 1995 as CEO of Halliburton was fined 1.2 milion dollars for illegal sales of components to Libya which could be used for nuclear purposes. Shortly before becoming Vice President he bitterly assailed US policy against selling such components to Syrria and Iran, which apparently hurt Halliburton's bottom line.

3) There is an investigation of Vice President Cheney in other countries for illegal bribery and various other offenses connected to Halliburton as well as paying amounts to secret Swiss bank accounts

4)The Atomic Energy Commission has said a North American company is one of 20 being investigated for black market sales of WMD materials.

Here's the theory:

Valerie Plame was stopped in her tracks and the biggest treasonous taboo of revealing a CIA sting operation was done because she/it was coming close to discovering even more serious violations of the laws against trading nuclear materials with certain countries by our own Vice President and the Hallibuton company he has awarded billions of US taxpayer dollars to in non-bid contracts after he became VP.

Recently Libya was accused of having WMD components and the US threat
ened to invade unless Quaddaffi gave the WMD components to the US.
Bush 2 was seen on TV this week inspecting the cases of returned materials from Iraq triumphantly. The fact that Quaddafi received these illegal shipments of components from Cheney/Halliburton was not
mentioned in the victory video.

Dick Cheney, even after the Senate Intel Committee, The Atomic Commission and numerous other agencies have said no WMD exist in Iraq,
insists Iraq has WMD even in the last week.

Why? Because Dick Cheney knows he, through an offshore Halliburton company with a PO Box, at some time in the past sold Saddam Hussein WMD or components of WMD. In the same way "they" under Bush 1 adminstration sold Hussein lethal gas which he used, and then attacked him for using it saying he was a threat to the community.

Why do Cheney and Bush insist they must attack Syrria and Iran as the next step in making the world safe and that Syrria and Iran have
WMD? Cheney-Halliburton know that Syrria and Iran have WMD components because Cheney illegally sold the WMD components to Syrria and Iran.

Why did Bush Cheney know that North Korea had WMD and where did they gget the components?

Why were Pakistan and India able to test and develop nuclear weapons undetected by the CIA's "big eye in the sky" or any agency's seismic
discovery? And where did India and Pakistan purchase the components
for WMD which were illegal for any company to sell them?

What was Valerie Plame investigating?


good spooks vs the bad spooks in the FBI and CIA becomes very confusing to most, I think.



Not to add confusion to my "theory " above, but I also thought:

When Saudi Arabia asked Junior and Company to get out of Saudi Arabia
afer we had built a monstrous and expensive base armed with the newest weaponry - one might call it a home base -why would they do that, when they had wanted US to protect them and their oil fields for years???

The reason given for asking us to vacate was to calm the anti-American element. Hmmm. But if they needed our protection from that very element, WHY would they ask their protector to leave.
BECAUSE they "likely" also received WMD from certain parties.

So now, we can guess, the entire Middle East is armed with illegal components of WMD...supplied by whom?hmmm

And I agree with you ROBERTPAULSEN- it's a great racket. Supply them
with the components, collect payment. Shuttle back and forth between
private employment and government employment, selling WMD for your company's bottom line while a private CEO, earning large bonuses and
deferred "payment" plus increased stock option value, go back into government, create a war on those countries who have the WMD you have sold them, then you have created a situation where your company and the other companies you hold stock in, or which belong to your other associates, can supply the army with munitions, destroy the country you have sold WMD to, and then the very same companies who supplied the munitions for destruction, go in and rebuild the country.


So. Now how many times have you profiteered?
1) illegal selling of WMD
2) earn bonus, increase value of stock options
3) Supply Army Munitions on no bid contracts
4) Rebuild the country on no bid contracts

1) illegal selling of WMD
2) earn bonus, increase value of stock options
3) Supply Army Munitions on no bid contracts
4) Rebuild the country on no bid contracts

What I think would be really useful is to have links to documentation following each of these four points -- the 'who what where and how' of them.

That broadcast through our many personal email contacts would just about cinch it.

give us.

Repost to Reply #317

- H20 always says ask WHY

WHY was and is the British intelligence info made unavailaable
even to today and forever?

"
The plot was drawn up long before Wilson even went to Niger... the plot was in play supposedly when Cheney became aware of the Brits Intel (which has been conveniently made unavailable)

when Cheney became aware of the Brits Intel

that's WHY. And that's why the Brits won't show it -
because it exposes Cheney/Halliburton's black market sales to Iraq and other countries even after the Boland Act

______________________________________________

You both are assuming that the Brit Intel is the same Intel that the
CIA had. (on yellowcake)

You're right about one thing...the intel agencies all share their info.BUT you are forgetting that the French have been investigating CHeney Halliburton illegalities for some time, and Cheney Halliburton
did not sell yellowcake (to our knowledge), they sold equipment that could be used for dual use - and one of the uses was for a nuklar bomb.

So there is nothing to say that the Brit Intel was the same Niger info.In fact it may not be.

WHY would they not share with the world what information they had about Iraq having WMD? And why have they suddenly changed their mindsagain saying it was bogus after all - after insisting for 1 1/2 years they had separate proof of Iraq having WMD?

Theory: because it would cause a great deal of embarrassment to "he who calls himself president of VICE ! !! a-ha!

Could be one of Halliburton's subsidiaries or offshores, whose name and connection was not recognized immediately was in the hands of Brit Intel so they said they had separate verifying proof of WMD in Iraq - only to realize the proof traced back to a company named Halliburton or Brown Root - and so they shut up. (TOP SECRET - CANNOT BE REVEALED, of course while every intel agency in the world knows, but the general public date not know becaue we would hang the perpetrator)

Highly plausible . First they say they have proof of WMD in Iraq.but refuse to show it.......now they suddenly say the proof is bogus - and still refuse to reveal it.

sniff..sniff....sniff.....

to knowledge was given during his interview regarding the 9/11 commission report that he disagreed with. Remember when he was asked if he knew something the 9/11 commission did not...he said, "Probably."

That 'probably' goes to a lot of things, including illegal sales of WMD.

that he keeps blabbing it whenever he has an opportunity does go deeper than just trying to keep the Repug base inline and he is risking looking very foolish or a liar to the rest of us.

So, there has to be something deeper going on here. It's also possible that he's keeping the "story alive" to cover Blair's butt while Blair continues to say British Intelligence has other evidence supportin Niger purchase.

Josh Marshall and Sy Hersh have called into question who forged the original Niger documents. Hersh said there was a "rumor" being shopped around by what he called a reliable CIA source that the CIA forged the documents themselves to trap the PNAC'ers before the beginning of the Invasion. However Hersh seems to feel that this rumor may not be the truth of it.

Josh Marshall has also said we should question who forged the documents and why. So, it rests alot on what the British Intel documents are and why they wont release them. Is it to "cover" Blair that Cheney keeps talking about this, or are there some other papers that if the source is revealed will either show who the forger is or show that there really was evidence Iraq was trying to buy the yellow cake.

It sounds more likely that Josh and Hersh know something, but can't talk about it yet.

Your theory of Halliburton and other companies constantly selling arms and Chemical/Bio supplies to counties on the sly then creating circumstances to invade and then rebuild is interesting. But, if we're that desperate to enrich our WMD Corpororations I would have thought some whistleblowers would have stepped forward somewhere along the way.

It could be the Globilization finatics, combined with the "multi-nationals" doing this endless circle of "supply and destroy" but it would be so massive I can't see how it could be covered up for so long.

I agree with you, that it's a nightmare scenario. Whatever folks have come up with on these threads could be the truth. Parts of it and all of it. This administration is covering up something big and has alot of help. We do know that. And, it's worse than anything that has gone on before in other administrations...or perhaps it's the culmination of all that's gone on before, now bearing the ugly fruit, but only now there is a vast communications network of information which is allowing the pieces to be exposed one by one. They never counted on that, I think. They were naive about the digital cameras in Iraq which could document the abuse. There may be other things they've overlooked in their massive plan that will be the fatal flaw or Achilles heel that in the end exposes them.

I'm still waiting for Josh Marshall's "shift of the tectonic plates" to occurr. Maybe it's already here it's just going slowly. Drip by Drip.

Or vice versa. Or whatever. The "Coup d'Etat" article in From the Wilderness talks about a supposed sting operation by the CIA, in which its own operatives forged those documents, setting a trap for our pals in the White House to fall into.

And yes, they're still overlooking a LOT. Mainly, I suspect, because so far, they've managed to get away with so much. That's because they exploited everyone's fears after 9/11 so thoroughly (the "new Pearl Harbor") that the media got in line, the Dems in the Senate and House got in line, and most of the American people got in line. Many were KEPT in line by intimidation and name-calling (unpatriotic, unAmerican, "Saddam-lovers," traitors, Neville Chamberlains, appeasers, and more). And all were played like fiddles for awhile, until some of us decided to kick a few things around on the internet, and ask a few questions on our on (our media surrogates certainly weren't doing it).

While all of that was fermenting like some witch's brew, the successful suppression of dissent built on the arrogance and hubris of these people. Soon, it probably gave them good reason to think they were invincible, because they had EVERYBODY in their back pockets.

And that's when you find an increasing possibility of some of these people starting to get sloppy. If everything's in the bag and everybody's scared and the press corps isn't asking questions and you have the Pox "News" network and the limbaughs and the tom delays and everybody else shouting down, intimidating, demonizing, marginalizing or Joe McCarthy-ing those few skeptics who try to ask questions, then you can relax a little as you go about your business. And you assume everyone's so thoroughly threatened and intimidated that you don't even worry about it anymore. And THEREIN lies your Achilles Heel. Then one of you gets too drunk in Ahmed Chalabi's presence and forgets him/herself and mouths off, and dicey stuff gets not only exposed but passed to the Iranians, and you forget about, and misunderestimate the internet and those willing to use it, and a few other things. You get sloppy, you start making mistakes, and it's inevitable that SOMEBODY among your adversaries starts to notice, and becomes motivated to get to work on a few things...

putting the kabosh on her investigation?

See post 350, thread 8.

This is off topic, but I want to know what you think. The administration has said we can expect a terrorist attack for the election. I think we might expect huge power failures in maybe California and Ohio on election day, or other largely democrat areas. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

By the way, this thread needs kicked. My kicks don't seem to work.

be sure that they will disrupt.

Probably come from all kinds of directions. Lots of different distractions.

I had some hard-core Rethug gentlemen visit me in my office a few days ago. One was beyond hope, but the other said that if * tried to delay the election he himself would be marching on DC. If you knew who they were you would be pretty surprised, as I was, that he would say this. The Repubs are catching on, little by little.

I think they will some day wake up to the notion that the Republican party is going to the dogs. Or the chimps, however you wanna see it.

with the yellow cake and the detonators they got back from Iraq and
Libya. dirty bomb talk all the time...the lil baastids.

When I stop researching some stuff from here I'll take a look
at the blackout thing....

I had quoted from a prediction that Patrick Buchanan made in 1999. I know that most liberals/leftists have a natural cringing-type of reaction to Pat B ..... although all of the Irish-Americans on here know from extended family experience that the "Uncle Pats" in their family, though full of crap during the arguments about politics at family reunions, are often smart and insightful when you are one-on-one. Buchanan, for all of his folly, is often right on target.

Though you should never overestimate the administration, neith should you overestimate their abilities. Likewise, much as the Roman Empire had to deal with the wrath of the tribal people around the fringes of their metro-empire, the United States faces a serious threat from the tribal Islamic peoples who do not welcome Halliburton culture with open arms.

Note: I do not use terms such as "tribal" or "Islamic" in a judgemental way. If anything, I prefer the basic foundations of tribal thought. And I think that Islam is as valuable a religious tradition as any other. At the same time, as Erich Fromm pointed out, there are negative potentials from tribal thought patterns, and all of the great religious traditions have contributed to the savagery and violence that the world has experienced.

I think it is important to remember that while this administration can and will manipulate everything .... there are very real dangers facing this nation besides those posed by the administration.

"Wilson has said the apparently illegal disclosure of his wife's identify (she was a covert CIA officer) was made in retaliation for his speaking out about the lack of evidence in Niger."

noting that so far, Wilson has not even ventured a whiff at the notion of the outing of his wife has come on the heels of a perceived threat by VP Cheney.. Could there be a smoking gun somewhere...sure there could. Could be a trump card Wilson has yet to play if he finds it necessary..my options are open..

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/07/16/wilson/ind...

starting with how I've arrived at my conclusions:

my riff was about the conclusions...and a reminder to keep an open mind until we could get a handle on what the other side was doing and what their motivations were.. It wasn't obvious at first that Amb Wilson was a target.. all the focus was on the outing of Plame...when it suddenly occurred to me what Wilson's role was in the scheme of things, then it all made sense..

The defining factor was when we were able to look at what the circumstances would be if Wilson didn't speak up about the 16 words when he did...thats when it became clear what the game was about.

The very next day, after I stated my theory, was when the assault on Wilson from Schmidt and the NYT became serious...actually, by Joe Wilson crying foul when he did, he tipped the balance of the scales of what would have been an easy path for the perps involved to brand Wilson a traitor, using him as the scapegoat for Bush going to war.

You all have to remember, Clinton's first utterance when asked about the war...he said: "What is Bush's exit strategy?" There never was a response from the WH on his statement...It just evaporated into the ether..his question resonated with me and became the foundation that would eventually prove my theory out as a valid one.

The shorter version...By correcting Bush, Wilson threw a monkey wrench into their gears and forced them to change the dynamics of their plan.

and this observation...from Tactical Peak..

Post #22

"Wilson reveals in his book that a group of the usual suspects, including Newt Gingrich and pardoned felon, Elliot Abrams, met in the VP offices in March 2003 and decided to do a "work-up" on Wilson, four months before his op-ed in the NYT in July 2003. March 2003 is when the IAEA did their merciless shoot-down of the forged docs.

When his article did appear in July, the WH almost immediately withdrew the Niger claim, like the next day, during aWol's trip to Africa. Anonymously, from AF1, IIRC. So, of all the horseshit these creeps shoveled in the rush to war, why did this one aspect cause a "hot stove" recoil?"

These direct quotes reinforces my contention frm Ambassador Wilson was the prime target of the Bush WH, all along..The outing of his wife is as he said, in retaliation for his comments refuting Bush's 16 words as an inaccurate statement in his SOTU address referring to WMD in Iraq.

All this just for the record...

(in fact, I admire your insight) I would urge you to keep in mind that Joseph Wilson can not speak openly about any of the work his wife was doing. In fact, the laws and regulations involving what can and can not be revealed about CI operatives includes those who have died. The administration is fully aware of this, and may, in fact, be hoping to bait him into saying something rash in order to compromise him in regard to the Plame exposure.

Joseph Wilson is one of the very brightest, most honest, and capable people in public service in this generation.

I come from a very big family that has been involved past and present in areas of government service.

Perhaps minor, but there was discussion on thread #8 about the rift between Cheney/Abrams/Libby and Rove over this. I remember how the story first bubbled up in the media - when Wilson gave that great soundbite about Karl Rove being frog marched out of the White House. Could it be that Wilson figured that.. Rove wasn't directly responsible, but was certainly the one most likely to crack and talk to investigators in order to save his own skin? and hence decided to call Rove out in public. Rove, the weakest link..

We know that Valerie Plame was involved in a sting operation involving the components for WMDs. This is verfied in J. Klein's article in Time, 7-5-04. Remember also that when Novak called CI for confirmation of Plame's status -- and Robert NoFacts had told a total stranger on a public street on the day afterWilson's NYT op-ed article that she was a WMD specialist -- the CIA requested that he not only should NOT mention Wilson's wife was an operative with the Agency, but that her name should not ever be printed.

One of the things to keep in mind is that by revealing Plame's identity, it insured that at very least, a half-dozen operatives (American and other-wise) were exposed to the last people on earth that they should have been exposed to. Let's just say, for example, that there was a person who was working in the Pakistan area ... and he had worked in deep cover for over a decade, and was very, very close to accessing information on the sale of not only technology, but also components, that went to Iran .... and he had a known link to Plame .... then he would be dead 24 hours after Novak's article was printed. Further, no one in the USA would be at liberty to discuss the fact that he existed.

You will recall that I've referred to this as high stakes chess. A board game where the removal of one player compromises the safety and value of several others.

Listen: if they wanted to call Wilson's conclusions into question, they could create confusion with a series of bullshit documents from England, etc. They could have said that his was one of three US reports, and that there were the British papers that were still open to question, considering that Wilson had not viewed them. They could have even said, yes, we tend to agree with Wilson.

But they didn't. They had been waiting to reveal information on Plame for some time. The fact that Iran is sharing he focus in the recent days, along with Wilson, is a clue .... a big clue.

now? They both make sense, and they are both valid arguments or statements of fact, however you choose to see it.

Run them together and what have you got? HMMMMM?

And I support his bravery in having the courage to out the POTUS in front of God and the World. And will do my utmost to support whatever he wishes in his best interests and that of his wife Valerie, and his family.

This situation is his to call and I'm not about to strong arm him by deluging him with letters for more information that may be classified or not, that would jeopardize the outcome of a grand jury investigation into the motives of who, what and why, certain person/s have committed a felony and are responsible for making public his wife's secret identity, to satisfy a need to know, right now..

I think the ongoing letter writing campaign keeping the issue on the media's front burner is a good idea. But delving into more personal information in the interests of personal gratification, a need to know more than has been revealed by him, is not something I would support.

they would do a 'Rosenberg' on them. Two for the price of one.

Set them up.

Traitors to the country, electric chair, the whole bit.

to put out to the intel community: the "do not cheney with us" message. Wilson has, many times, mentioned that what happened to his wife, whether to her directly or indirectly to him, was to seriously discourage others from getting "out of line." Wouldn't that just be the decisive little coup de grace - to "Rosenberg" one or both of them, to put a chill on anybody else who might be getting too dangerously close? If they knew they were not only going to be ruined, but they also faced the electric chair or some other kind of EXTREMELY final punishment, there'd be icicles hanging off all of them before you could say "BOO!"

And for awhile, they've seemed invincible, haven't they? So who would dare...

But things are a lot stickier and more complicated now. Their anticipated free ride is starting to get seriously mucked up as more people know, and talk, and spread out, and start asking questions, and some guy like Fitzgerald gets involved (who couldn't be counted on to be a "good" republi-CON after all. And, as someone else mentioned either here or on Thread 8 - they misunderestimated the internet. They thought we'd all just shut up and go to our corner and suck our thumbs and mope and cower and give up, didn't they? They didn't know we'd (literally, here) go underground...

As Martha Stewart would say - it's a VERY good thing. And it's gaining traction.

Which is what our efforts in all these arenas should do, as well. GAIN TRACTION.

"What most people don't seem to realize is that there is just as much money to be made out of the wreckage of a civilization as from the upbuilding of one."

-Margaret Mitchell

"The Federal Reserve is one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by International Bankers".

Louis McFadden, Congressmen, Chairman of House Committe on Banking and Foreign Currency

http://www.bilderberg.org/bilder.htm

I'm not familiar with Bilderberg..just went to the site and did a cursory skim through. Didn't John Edwards just attend meetings at Bilderberg?

It looks like an organization for world dominance. Am I right?

"elite" bankers, industrialists, philosophers....but mostly the old
original banking houses which became the Federal REserve,the International Money Fund, and then the World Trade Organization.

Every President or vice president has been vetted by the. If they
didn't choose the Pres, they made sure they had a veep of theirs in
place.

It's so fucking incredible that a group of people could get away with this. Long term planners.

READ DAVID ROCKEFELLER'S QUOTE. It tells the whole story.

I'm sickened by this.

very unhappy (:

it's not only massive but extremely powerful. PNAC is our branch of it. No wonder there have been no reprisals for Bush's crimes.

is exactly as it should be .... or it wouldn't be. There is no reason to be either depressed or afraid. Rather, it is important to think that those feelings are a normal reaction ..... and that they come as the result of your putting in a tremendous amount of hard work in the past 7-10 days .... and much of that work found you elated and inspired. A coin always has two sides .... it can NOT be otherwise .... and so what you are feeling now is temporary.

Gandhi used to say that humanity is an ocean, and just because a few drops in the ocean are dirty, it doesn't make the ocean dirty. Of course today, we see that we have had a toxic spill of neocon waste in the ocean .... but it will come to pass.

Do you remember the saying that is used in AA? About changing what you can, accepting that which you can't change, and understanding the difference? That's part of this. We are just people, doing the best we can to protect humanity from an un-natural force.

When Martin got depressed (more often than people may realize, because he took SO MUCH upon his shoulders!) he loved to recite a poem by James Russell Lowell (and Martin often "edited" it)

Once to every person and nation,
Comes the moment to decide
In the strife of truth and falsehood
For the good or evil side;
Some great cause God's new Messiah
Offering each the gloom or blight
And the choice goes by forever
Twixt that darkness and that light.

Though the cause of evil prosper
Yet 'tis truth alone is strong
Though her portion be the scaffold
And upon the throne be wrong
And yet that scaffold sways the future
And behind that dim unknown
Standeth God within the shadow
Keeping watch above his own.

Either Martin Luther King, Jr or George W. Bush is telling the truth. Only one of the two of them could possibly have a grasp on what is true, real, and honest. The other is either delusional or a lying carp. I think Martin lived the truth to the fullest extent humanly possible.

Combining bits of Buddhist wisdom, AA, and Lowell.

I've annoyed reading your posts and enjoy your insight.

I once quibbled with a statement about Bush's mental capacity however after reading many posts its now moot.

My question to you is this. If you don't mind.

Do you think that the Us is currently fight a traditional proxy war in Iraq( this time against Europe), that historically would have been fought by neighbors or internal ethnic groups. If so why do you think The US and Great Britain have been forced to use their own troops.

If not, how do you see the rest of the western powers reacting to further or continued U.S aggression?

I am impressed that you are able to focus on an important aspect of this set of "problemed areas" in the world community. I believe that you have been pin-pointing some of the economic factors (correct me if I'm wrong) and noting that the United States, like most of the European nations, has a history of colonialism, which continued in the form of an exploitative economic imperialism ..... and there appears, in the larger sense, to be an effort on the part of the USA and European countries to keep the Arab world, the African world, and the majority of the Asian world on a lower econmic (hence socio-political) level.

England has sent troops because Blair has been a poodle for the White House. I feel bad saying that. I had admired him. But, like Colin Powell, he has shown himself willing to prostitute his morals.

Have you watched the movie "Braveheart"? Where the king sends soldiers to their death with absolutely no concern for them as people? But instead sees them as mere cogs? Bush has that same attitude. It's not his family. It's not his friends' children dying in Iraq.

I'm glad to see you participating in this conversation. I've been reading your threads, and enjoy the additional point of view.

Funnily enough I have Scottish ancestry and my Mother currently lives in Edinburgh, so the Braveheart references are not lost.

Tese threads I have known would eventually get where they needed to get.

Your approach has seemed to let the motivated and active members here on DU string the stories together until the ultimate revelation of the NWO and ruling elite was made.

It is really quite remarkable that it only took a week or so to see what any member of the mainstream media could have done had they been paid as full time investigative journalists.

Its interesting to see the sudden outrage slip quickly to defeatism once the enormity of the task presents itself.

But what else I find interesting , and as I had hoped , the people active in this type of thread have taken a deep breath and tried to refocus and set a new objective. At least I hope that is what I'm seeing.

The current problem I see with the fight against the NWO is the consiacy alien death cult angle.

Lets say you and I tell someone to google NWO or Bilderberg. How many people would get Alex Jones's web page with screaming death cult flying swastikas or other general mayhem sites.

But if you hear it from a trusted source you actually sit up and take notice.

I'm about to reply to Pallas and in that I will talk about the misconception that Americans can't handle the truth.

But in the mean time...

Do you think that there are any competing factions of the NWO, powerful interests opposed to it, or are Americans and the American military just being used as pawns in the grand game.

an insightful question.

If we compare this group of "leaders" to a confederacy of organized crime families -- and in many ways, that's just what it is -- then we can appreciate that there is, by their greedy and violent nature, a type of opportunistic competitiveness. And that's why so many world leaders, exactly like organized crime leaders, die an early death.

First let me thank you for your very long and well though out reply to my question regarding the next election.

First I'd like to ask if you referred to me as StandBy by mistake, were you trying to imply that I advocate a StandBy and do nothing approach, or were you suggesting that I StandBy and watch what Kerry can accomplish.

I am humbled by the effort you have put in to your replies to my, and others queries. I will try and honor that by doing the same.

After reading your reaction to discovering Paul Wolfowitz membership in Bilderberg, and Bilderberg's relevance in US politics, I am even more certain about one of my thesis in the last question.

Please for one second pause to compare the zeal with which you began your investigation and letter writing campaign with the knowledge of the new world order you had at the time.

Now fast forward to this latest, John Edwards vetting, last month at the Mysterious Bilderberg group.

The Bilderberg group is old news to most of the Western Industrialized nations. But the reasons have nothing to do will a free press in the rest of the world.

At little background.

Anti-Americanism is nothing new for most of the world. It isn't new in the Western world either, however what is new is the western world, the one with a voice, is now openly displaying what was once private Anti-Americanism. The Sting most Americans feel, especially the activist Americans, is a result of feeling their efforts are overlooked by the rest of the world while they concentrate on the negative.
They are right. The Western governments have switched to an openly hostile attitude to the US if not directly through Insults by government officials, but by openly allowing a negative impression of Americans to proliferate in media.

The question is why?

In Canada where I live Anti-Americanism is a sport loved like Hockey.
We have Beer commercials that have Canadian grizzly bears beating up American Bartenders in American Bars.


What we don't have is an interest in Scot or Laci Peterson, Koby Bryant, or the other celebrity distractions to hide damaging news or corporate conspiracy with. So, its You guys.

Look how big and bad Bush is.
Look how stupid American people are.
Look how smart and morally superior we are because we didn't go to the wrong war in Iraq. We went to the right one in Afghanistan.

In Canada there were protest and a palpable fear that we might actually go to war in Iraq. The average citizen was thirsty for information. People at my work would ask me to "Explain it all to them again. This is fascinating." and I dutifully complied excited that I was witnessing an awakening in my country with the full compliance of my Media, who spilled the beans on Bush every night.

It gave me an opportunity to take the nightly news story deeper with those that wanted MORE information.

Then 2 things happened to remove the veils.

1. Canada said No to Iraq and the people reclined into their self congratulatory smugness and no more insight was required.

2. Canada participated in the unlawful overthrow of the democratically elected government of Haiti. I would bet my house that less than one percent of the millions who have seen F 9/11 in this country could even tell where Haiti was or what had occurred. The official story included.

The lessons I learned from this practical experience I must now put toward my knowledge and understanding of the New World Order.

I don't care if its a Satanic Death cult, or a Group of Divine Interventionists running the show, the evidence of the larger conspiracy is overwhelming enough to fight to put a stop to it TODAY. Not to wait till we can prove the Tinfoil hatters that say there are aliens controlling Bush from a forth Dimension.

Like another poster here said, I believe it was Staroute, it makes about as much sense as the official story of life.

You asked me who I think the world’s second superpower is...

I was referring to the previous poster, but Chomsky defines the global masses and public opinion as the second super power.

I only agree in theory. In self contained societies the masses would always hold the balance of power because the masses control the means of production of the tool of oppression. When you have a larger entity providing a disproportionate amount of resources to the ruling elite of a smaller country it shifts the balance of power. The US and Great Britain have long controlled the world this way. Every Imperial Western Power got rich this same way.

I will spend the next 100+ days trying to force everyone here at DU to realize that Bush isn't the problem and more importantly this election isn't the solution.

IT really isn't. Bilderberg and the people behind it are the problem and Kerry not only hasn't addressed it, he has acquiesced to it by getting Edwards vetted.

What we need to do is harness the anger that bush is inspiring in the masses and direct it at the true perpetrators.

By the way check the media ties to Bilderberg.

reply I made. You are conflicted about your feelings about America and Americans. It shows through your writing. On the one hand you are
reading and thinking with us here on DU and like us and on the other hand you still harbor all the pent up anger and derision you have for
all things America.

Understood.

Your posts are very interesting for a look at how those outside of
America see us.

Years ago it was "The Ugly American" brash and rash ----this view of us now is much much worse. And with good reason.

We are well aware of Bilderberg, One World Government, NOW.

Very very much aware as we went on learning today.
None of us knew, except H20, nor would we have believed it unless we
found it all ourselves. He was very clever that way.

We understand.

What you don't want to accept as far as I can see, is that if John
Kerry announces all of this, he will either be shot, have an airplane accident, or in some other way, be disposed of.


And for what. If he announced it Americans would not believe it.
And he would not be elected.

Let him appeal to what the common man's concerns are, jobs, healthcare, no war - if we are lucky and I think Thank God, we are getting lucky, the CIA is going to take care
of many of the neo-cons in government right now, by exposing them
for treason if not in other ways.

After Kerry is in we can confront him with our knowledge and say:

Remove these people from all government positions. Make it illegal
to belong to this group. They are seditionaries subverting the Constitiution of the United States.

They have to come up with a way to get our country out of the hands
of the financiers and our money back to a gold or silver standard.
They have to deal with this IMF and WTO and FR.

Patience. WE have just learned all of these things in less than one
week. In fact in less than one day.

Thank you for sharing with me STAND UP - (sometimes I'm tired and will
write Stand-by...with no ulterior motive

they are subverting the Constitution of the United States.

After Kerry is in we can confront him with our knowledge and say:

Remove these people from all government positions. Make it illegal
to belong to this group. They are seditionaries subverting the Constitiution of the United States.Bilderberg members, Neo-Cons,
New World Order people.

Kerry or Edwards or whoever have to come up with a way to get our country out of the hands of the financiers and our money back to a gold or silver standard.

They have to deal with this IMF and WTO and FR.

Patience. WE have just learned all of these things in less than one
week. In fact in less than one day.

There is one thing missing in this "after the election" talk.

Where is the leverage.

Leverage in our struggle is Key.

Right NOW we are building momentum and creating the leverage with Bush anger.

There are a lot of people that have known about the NWO for along time and have fought successfully to get it as much attention as it already has.

People that are interested in conspiracies have been screaming NWO for years. But to the Average person you are 100% correct, would not believe it coming from the likes of Alex Jones or any other "wild eyes" crazy.

However a trusted source is what people hear.

You yourself digested , comprehended, and agreed with the obvious once presented with the facts in one day.

If Kerry got up in front of the American people, lets says at the debates and laid it all out, apologized to the American people and the world for having PARTICIPATED in the development of a new world order and the support of the on going actions in advancing the NWO agenda. Started naming names and connecting dots that he has as a United states senator has overseen if not directly participated in.

Full mea culpa.

If he pledged to start by locking up every known criminal in this cabal and start investigating everyone else. If he promised to deliver real foreign aid to try and relive suffering aboard while using forfeited profits of the criminal regime to rebuilt the social safety net at home.

Yes he might get shot.
Yes his plane might crash.

But you surmise it would accomplish nothing.

I summarize it would begin to restore dignity to democracy, and light the fire beneath every American that has felt there is something wrong for a long time but weren't sure what it was.

That would be heroic.

above is not only foolish - (Kerry is no Bill Clinton and could never
pull it off) but it would be total suicide.

If he promised to deliver real foreign aid to try and relive suffering aboard while using forfeited profits of the criminal regime to rebuilt the social safety net at home.<[/i>

Yes he might get shot.Yes his plane might crash.

But you surmise it would accomplish nothing.I summarize it would begin to restore dignity to democracy, and light the fire beneath every American that has felt there is something wrong for a long time but weren't sure what it was.

That would be heroic.

There is nothing wonderful about being a dead hero. Dead heroes cannot lead people.

You don't seem to have an understanding of the American mentality.

When John Kennedy was killed it kicked the wind out of the people of this nation. He was much loved by the people. And hope died.
Optimism died.

Then brother Robert ran for President. Not all, but many Americans came alive again with hope. Hope for fairness, for equality, for justice, for the "right" thing to be done. I assume you know the end of that story.

For Black people the death of Martin Luther King had the same affect.

From Robert Kennedy's death in 1968 to about 1993 all hope for fairness and concern for "the little man, the working man" in the liberal and democratic community was dead.

Bill Clinton did not excite the people until after about a year they
saw that he was really doing the "right" things. Even with a Congress
against him and the entire judicial and republican and media system trying "to do him in"(and now we know they were members of Bildenberg and NWO, but we didn't then) he managed to do many good things for the people of the country, for the economy, for the environment. He also did a couple of not so wonderful things, I think as compromises offered to the rethuglicans.

25 years after an assassination of a beloved figure for the people of the country to recover.

Do you really think Kerry and/or Edwards should put themselves in a position to destroy the hopes of the common man of America for another
25 years?

Without offense meant to you, this is an extremist philosophy, more in line with Wahabbeeism or being a Kamikaze or Palestinian.

We prefer our heroes to live to fight another day.

to Joe Wilson's publisher. Hopefully, they'll forward it on to him.

Let me know if it's too whatever. I'm a passionate writer and wear my heart on my sleeve. Thanks!

July 19, 2004



Mr. Joseph C. Wilson IV
C/O Carol & Graf Publishers
An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc
245 West 17th Street -- 11th Floor
New York, NY 10011

Dear Mr. Wilson,

In light of recent events surrounding the intelligence on the Iraq yellow cake issue and the resulting Robert Novak article naming your wife Valerie as a CIA agent, I would like to inform you of an astounding outpouring of support for you and your wife.

I am a recent poster at Democratic Underground, and the good people there have done a great deal of research regarding this issue. At this moment, there are over 3,000 posts on their board with a treasure trove of information gleaned from various sources. It is by far the most in-depth dissection of current events that I’ve seen on an Internet board.

I understand you are a busy man and couldn’t possibly have the time to read it, but I would like you to know that we are behind you 100% and will do our best to inform the masses of the injustice being levied by the current Administration against you and your wife. We have started a massive letter writing campaign on your behalf, and hopefully, you will see evidence of this undertaking soon. We are banking that there is at least one honest newspaper Editor out there willing will bring these issues to the forefront.

Finally, know that we have reached the end of our collective rope with the unabashed criminal arrogance of the current Administration and will do our best to help America back to being the great country it was four years ago and undo the damage done since George W. Bush took office.

We wish you luck with your endeavors and don’t hesitate to contact us at www.democraticunderground.com if we can assist you in any way. America needs more brave men like you, Mr. Wilson!

Sincerely,

Mrs. Xxxxxxx Xxxxxxxxxx
(Street address)
(City, State, Zip)
(Email address)

Good job, and on behalf of the rest of our group, thank you!

I'm going to find a nice cave to crawl into and hide.

No wonder obl lives in a cave.

Jon Corzine is also a member of Bilderberg.

Bilderberg, old moneyed Europe the true originators of One World Government in the works since 1954.

Below is a list of names USA members, not just participants invited to "interview" but US citizens members since 1982.

The worst conspiracy committed on this country(or maybe the world) that I can think ofby the media. Think about it. This is why the media was cheering the dimson war on and why we don't get "real" news:


"We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto determination practiced in past centuries."


David Rockefeller,Chairman Chase Manhattan Bank (now 88 or 90) founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address before that organization in June of 1991.
____________

Bilderberg from 1982 onwards (USA)
____(function is at last attendance; x st - 10 years to Dec 98; x ad - as of Nov 98)
Eliot, Theodore L, Jr, Deam Emeritus, Fkletcher School of Law, ex US Ambass (x st)
Yost, Casimir A. - Dir, Inst for Study of Diplomacy, Georgetown University, Washington
Jordan Jr, Vernon E; Managing Director, Lazard Frères & Co. LLC
Kissinger, Henry A. Former Secretary of State; Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.
Finley, Murray, Pres, Amalg. Clothing & Textile Workers Union, AFL-CIO, CLC
Finney, Paul B, Editorial Director, Thomson Magazines
Getchell, Charles, Lawyer, private trustee; rapporteur Bilderberg
MacLaury, Bruce K, President, Brookings Institution
Taylor, Arthur R, Managing Aprtner, Arthur Taylor & Co.
Williams, Joseph H, Chair & CEO, The Williams Companies
Bennett, Jack F, Dir & Snr VP, Exxon, former Undersecretary at the Treasury (x st)
Lord, Winston, Assistant Secretary for East Asian and Pacific Affairs
Dam, Kenneth W. Max Pam Prof Law, Univ. of Chicago; ex-Dep Sec State, ex-IBM (x st)
Mathias, Charles McC, Ptnr, Jones Day Reavis & Pogue; ex-Senator, Rep, Maryland (x st)
Ridgway, Rozanne L, Co Chair, Atlantic Council of the US, ex-Asst Sec of State, (x st)
Sheinkman, Jack, Chair. Amalg. Bank, ex-Pres. Amalg. Textile Workers Union AFL-CIO
Whitehead, John C. Former Deputy Secretary of State (x st)
Williams, Lynn R, International President, United Steel Workers of America (x st)
Wolfensohn, James D. President, The World Bank; ex-Pres James D Wolfensohn Inc (IN)
Allaire, Paul A., Chairman of the Board and CEO, Xerox Corporation
Rockefeller, Sharon Percy. President and CEO, WETA-TV and FM (PBS.) (x st)
Corzine, Jon S. Chairman and CEO, Goldman Sachs & Co.
Gerstner, Jr, Louis V. Chairman, IBM Corporation.
Holbrooke, Richard C. ex-Asst Secretary for Eur & Can Affairs, Ambass to UN (desig.)
Wolfowitz, Paul, Dean, Nitze School, John Hopkins Univ.; ex-Under Sec. of Defense
Ball, George W, Former Under-Secretary of State (x ad)
Bundy, William P., Former Editor, Foreign Affairs
Heinz, Henry J II, Chair, HJ Heinz Co, Pres, American Friends of Bilderberg (x ad)
Rockefeller, David. Chairman, Chase Manhattan Bank International Advisory Cttee.
Victor, Alice, Executive Assistant, Rockefeller Financial Services, Inc.
Winthrop, Grant F, Partner, Milbank (Wilson) Winthrop & Co.
Andreas, Dwayne O., Chairman, Archer-Daniels-Midland Company
Armacost, Michael H., Pres. Brookings Inst.
Bartley, Robert L., Editor, Wall Street Journal
Bayh, Evan - Senator (D. Indiana).
Bennet, Douglas J., Assistant Secretary of State for International Organizations
Bentsen, Lloyd M., Partner Verner Liipfert Bernhard McPherson & Hand; ex-Treas. Sec.
Berger, Samuel R., Asst to President, National Security Affairs
Bergh, Maarten A. van den, Group MD, Royal Dutch Shell
Bergsten, C. Fred, Director, Institute For International Economics
Bernstein, Richard, Book critic, New York Times
Billington, James H, Librarian of Congress
Black, Shirley Temple, Foreign Affairs Officer, Dept of State; frmr. Ambass to Ghana
Blackwill, Robert D, Lecturer in Public Policy, Harvard; fmr. member Nat. Sec. Council
Boskin, Michael J, Chairman, President's Council of Economic Advisers
Boyd, Charles G. - Executive Director, National Security Study Group
Brady, Nicholas F, Treasury Sec; ex-Dillon Read; ex Senator, Republican, New Jersey
Bryan, John H., Chairman and CEO, Sara Lee Corporation.
Buckley, Jr., William F., Editor-at-Large, National Review
Chafee, John H, US Senator (Republican, Rhode Island)
Clinton, Bill D, Governor Arkansas
Corrigan, E. Gerald, Former President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York
Cortines, Ramon C, Chancellor, New York City Board of Education
Dallara, Charles H, Assistant Secretary for International Affairs
Davis, Lynn E., Undersec. for Arms Control and Intl Security Affairs Dept of State
Day, Robert A, Chairman, Trust Company of the West
Deutch, John M. - Prof. MIT, ex-DG. CIA; ex-Deputy Secretary of Defence
Dodd, Chistopher J. - Senator (D. Connecticut).
Donilon, Thomas E; Senior Vice-President, General Counsel and Secretary, FannieMae
Dyson, Esther; Chairman, EDventure Holdings Inc.
Espy, Mike, Secretary of Agriculture
Esrey, William T, Chairman and CEO, Sprint
Evans, Daniel J, US Senator, Republican, Washington State
Feinstein, Diane, Former Mayor of San Francisco
Feldstein, Martin S. - President and CEO, National Bureau of Economic Research Inc.
Fischer, Stanley - First Deputy Managing Director, International Monetary Fund (IN)
Florio, James J, Former Governor of New Jersey
Foley, Thomas S., Partner Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Field, ex-Spkr, House of Reps (D)
Forester, Lynn - President and CEO, FirstMark Holdings Inc.
Freeman, Jr., Chas. W.,ex-Asst Sec of Defense for Intl Security; Chair, Projects Intern.
Friedman, Stephen, Chairman, Goldman Sachs & Co.
Friedman, Thomas L., Foreign Affairs columnist New York Times
Furlaud, Richard M, Director, Bristol-Myers Squibb Co.
Gadiesh, Orit Chairman of the Board, Bain & Company Inc.
Galvin, John R, Prof Nat. Sec. Studies, West Point; ex-Supr Allied Comndr Eur (SHAPE)
Gergen, David R., Fmr Advisor to Clinton and Reagan; Fellow Aspen Institute
Gigot, Paul, Washington Columnist, The Wall Street Journal
Graham, Donald E. - Publisher, The Washington Post
Graham, Katherine, Chair, Exec Committee, Washington Post Co
Greenberg, Maurice R, Chair, American International Group Inc.
Grossman, Marc - Assistant Secretary, US Department of State
Grunwald, Henry A, US Ambass, to Austria; fmr Editor-in-Chief, Time Inc
Habib, Philip C, snr. res. fellow, Hoover Institution; former Under-Secretary of State
Hagel, Chuck - Senator (R. Nebraska)
Hamilton, Lee H. Congressman (D, Indiana.)
Hoagland, Jim - Associate Editor, The Washington Post
Hoge, Jr., James F. - Editor, Foreign Affairs
House, Karen Elliott, VP International, Dow Jones & Co.; ex-For Ed, Wall St Journal
Hunter, Robert E, US representative to NATO
Hutchison, Kay Bailey; Senator (Republican, Texas)
Hyland, William G, Editor, Foreign Affairs
Jennings, Peter, Anchor and Senior Editor, ABC News: World News Tonight
Johnson, James A; Chairman and CEO, Johnson Capital Partners
Johnston, J Bennett, Senator, Democrat, Louisiana
Kann, Peter R., Chair, CEO Dow Jones & Co., publisher Wall Street Journal
Kassebaum, Nancy Landon, US Senator, Republican, Kansas
Kearns, David T, Chairman, Xerox Corporation
Kendall, Donald M, former Chairman & CEO, Pepsico Inc.
Kimmet, Robert M, MD. Lehmann Bros, Fmr Undersecretary of State for Pol. Affairs
Kirkland, Lane, President, AFL-CIO (Amer Fed of Labor & Congress of Industrial Orgs)
Kravis, Henry R. - Founding Partner, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.
Kristol, William, Chair, Project for the Republican Future
Krogh, Peter F, Dean School of Foreign Service, Georgetown University
Kuczynski, Pedro Pablo, Co-Chair, First Boston International
Leschly, Jan - CEO SmithKline Beecham plc.
Lewis, Drew, Chairman, Union Pacific Corporation
Lewis, Samuel W, Director Policy Planning Staff, Department of State
Lewis, William W. Director of McKinsey Global Institute, McKinsey & Company.
McDonough, William J. President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York.
McGinn, Richard A. - Chairman and CEO, Lucent Technologies
McHenry, Donald F., Research Prof of Diplomacy and Intl Affairs, Georgetown Univ.
McLaughlin, David, President the Aspen Institute
Martin, Philip L, Prof of Agricultural Economics, Univ of California at Davis
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Perry, William J., Secretary of Defense
Petersen, Donald E, Chairman, Ford Motor Company
Pickering, Thomas R, US Ambassador to Russia
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Robinson, James D III, Chair & CEO, American Express Company
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Scowcroft, Brent, Former Asst to the President for National Security Affairs
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Tarullo, Daniel K; Visiting Professor of Law, Georgetown University Law Center
Thoman, G. Richard - President and CEO, Xerox Corporation
Thornton, John L. - President and co-COO, Goldman Sachs Group, Inc
Trotman, Alexander J., Chairman, Ford Motor Company
Tyson, Laura d'Andrea - Dean, Haas School of Business, Univ.of California at Berkeley
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Vogel, Ezra F. Henry Ford II Professor of Social Sciences, Harvard University
Volcker, Paul A, Chairman, BT Wolfensohn; ex-Chair, Board of Federal Reserve System
Weiss, Stanley A. Chairman, Business Executives for National Security, Inc.
Whitman, Christine Todd - Governor of New Jersey
Wilbur, Brayton Jr, President & CEO, Wilbur-Ellis Company
Wilder, Lawrence Douglas, Governor of Virginia
Wisner, Frank G, Under-Secretary for Policy, Department of Defense
Wriston, Walter B, Former Chairman, Citibank
Zoellick, Robert B, Counselor & Under-Secretary (designate) for Economic Affairs
Zuckerman, Mortimer B, Editor, US News and World Report





BILL KRISTOL AUTHOR OF PNAC ORIGINAL WHITE PAPER

John F. Kennedy took office in 1960 after General Dwight Ike Eisenhower's 8 year term from 1953. After WW2, the OSS=CIA brought spies to the US from Nazi Germany and adopted their methods under the
Dulles Brothers, Casey and a succession of other CIA directors. Some
much of our government and foreign policy was based on Fascism from 1945 on.It has been quietly been there for decades with a plan for world domination that was hatched sometime between 1945/50 and 1960 when JOHN F. KENNEDY SAID:


"The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office I must inform the Citizen of his plight."
~ President John F. Kennedy -

John F. Kennedy was assassinated 10 days later
______________________________________________________________

"Yes, many people will die when the New World Order is established, but it will be a much better world for those who survive".
~ Henry Kissinger (War Criminal)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
~ David (name edited by me)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The drive of the (name edited) and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."
~ Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets
_____________________________________________________________________
Bush 1,Chief of CIA, Pres. of Council on Foreign Relations, member of the Trilateral Commission a major designer of the plan for the New World Order established 1973 but not as old as the Bilderberg Group established in 1954 and apparently to what JFK referred just before his death in the quote above.
__________________________________________________________________
(This is a plan that has been in the works since the end of WW2.
The New World Order, partly authored by Kissinger who had been connected to prominent people in the US govt. in the 40's. )

"Today Americans would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their World Government."

- Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberger meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992.

Circa time when PNAC first written for Bush 1
______________________________________________________________________


Bush Sr. makes the New World Order speech to a joint session of Congress--also layed down our new Persian Gulf/Iraq policy:

http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu/research/papers/1990/900911 ...

We stand today at a unique and extraordinary moment. The crisis in the Persian Gulf, as grave as it is, also offers a rare opportunity to move toward an historic period of cooperation. Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective -- a new world order -- can emerge: a new era -- freer from the threat of terror, stronger in the pursuit of justice, and more secure in the quest for peace. An era in which the nations of the world, East and West, North and South, can prosper and live in harmony. A hundred generations have searched for this elusive path to peace, while a thousand wars raged across the span of human endeavor. Today that new world is struggling to be born, a world quite different from the one we've known. A world where the rule of law supplants the rule of the jungle. A world in which nations recognize the shared responsibility for freedom and justice. A world where the strong respect the rights of the weak.

This is the vision that I shared with President Gorbachev in Helsinki. HE AND OTHER LEADERS FROM EUROPE, THE GULF, AND AROUND THE WORLD UNDERSTAND THAT HOW WE MANAGE THIS CRISIS TODAY COULD SHAPE THE FUTURE FOR GENERATIONS TO COME.b]
Quotes which will not make you feel all warm and fuzzy.



Editor's note: 1000 years of the Third Reich anyone?
It should be kept in mind that both father Prescott Bush and Prescott's father-in-law Herbert Walker supported Hitler's Third Reich and its philosophy through their bank, financing Hitler's armament, and the Bush family fortune was built on this activity


_________________________________________________

"We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of our great nation."
~ George W. Bush


----------------------------------------------------------------------


"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just
as long as I'm the dictator"
~ George W. Bush


----------------------------------------------------------------------
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
~ George W. Bush
_____________________________________________________________________

are part of this. The huge tax giveaways to the rich, Corporate welfare and the consequences of a runaway deficit will destroy the middle class as we know it. Already the mojority of "new" jobs are low wage service jobs. There is tremendous unemployment and under employment. As the middle class slides downward they consolidate power. But they aren't concerned with the plight of the citizens. It is a global effort. Oppression and slavery will be the result, not true democracy.

The contradiction I see for someone like W is his religious belief system. I understand that he basically doesn't give a rats ass because he's expecting Jesus to come get him. Sop is he truely a puppet with the real power brokers behind him making the decisions?

who the hell cares about his religious belief.

He appears to worship Satan.

And maybe the Pope is right!

that John Edwards attended this year's Bilderberg meeting. I don't think it's a coincidence Kerry selected him for a VP candidate.

the old "skull & bones" seem like a fraternity, doesn't it? Maybe the youngsters who do there are let into the real power elite, eh? My, we've come darned near full circle! On the first thread, when I spoke of a "power elite" -- or Churchill's "high cabal" -- someone responded by saying I was full of, uh, foolishness, and that there was no such thing.

behind the throne in Bilderberg?


edited for spelline

Red Shield aka Rothchild

I wake up and my husband turns on TV to the History Channel - and guess what they're talking about? Secret societies: 1) Skull & Bones, 2) the Council on Foreign Relations, 3) the Trilateral Commission, and 4) Bilderberg.

Amazing. Many of the same people in all these groups. Bilderberg named for the Hotel Bilderberg in Europe where the first meetings took place decades ago. David Rockefeller prominent in most of them. All members moving in secrecy, guarded by military and paramilitary. They fold in a few media mavens - Peter Jennings, Katherine "Washington Post" Graham, more or less to ensure their silence through their most flattering allowed entry into this prestigious holy of holies. Nobody knows. Nobody talks. Nobody reports. What a coinkidink...

that a "quiet" revenge will be enacted upon Novakula? I know its been said that he has to live with himself, but frankly that is not enough. He seems self-contented to me and as long as his pocketbook is filled and he doesn't have to pay taxes, he doesn't seem to have any cares. A life (lives) was lost for heaven's sake. Will he truly be allowed to skate away with this?

I think it's too late.Do you?

They have private armies protecting them.
They have the money
They have the Weapons and air power and sea power

Jesus Christ.

Even if mobs wanted to get at them and tear them apart it would be impossible.

Question: is this what obl is up to? does he know and is trying to
destroy them -

or is he one of them?


How symbolic. The World Trade Center wasn't an attack on America.

It was an attack on the planned One World Government propounded by
Nelson and David Rockefeller.

The World Trade Center was Nelson Rockefeller's monument to himself. He built it. And I'm going to remind you again if you read those quotes, Kissinger originally worked for Nelson Rockefeller and got into government through Nelson

Jesus Chritst and holy moley.

that I know of today. I wondered where Bill Clinton came from when he ran for President..he was a virtual unknown..now I know.

Bayh, Evan - Senator (D. Indiana).
Berger, Samuel R., Asst to President, National Security Affairs
Buckley, Jr., William F., Editor-at-Large, National Review
Chafee, John H, US Senator (Republican, Rhode Island)
Clinton, Bill D, Governor Arkansas
Dodd, Chistopher J. - Senator (D. Connecticut).
Feinstein, Diane, Former Mayor of San Francisco
Gergen, David R., Fmr Advisor to Clinton and Reagan; Fellow Aspen Institute
Hagel, Chuck - Senator (R. Nebraska)
Hamilton, Lee H. Congressman (D, Indiana.)
Kissinger, Henry A. Former Secretary of State; Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.
Kristol, William, Chair, Project for the Republican Future
Nunn, Sam. Former Senator (D, Georgia.)
Nye, Joseph S Jr, Chairman, National Intelligence Council
Powell, Colin L. Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Rockefeller, David. Chairman, Chase Manhattan Bank International Advisory Cttee.
Scowcroft, Brent, Former Asst to the President for National Security Affairs
Soros, George; Chairman, Soros Fund Management
Stahl, Lesley R. National Affairs Correspondent, CBS News.
Wolfowitz, Paul, Dean, Nitze School, John Hopkins Univ.; ex-Under Sec. of Defense

But in important circles, he was a rising star. He was a DeMolay recipient of a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford in England. Also the benevolent patronage of Pam Harriman standing in his corner..yes, the wife of Averell Harriman. Although, I've provided a riskaay link to the Harriman influence, nevertheless, it's all true..

(i believe it was) I used Mr. Harriman as the best example of a person within the power elite who, by choice or by appointment, made a habit of going back & forth, into the public arena, and then back behind the scenes, which is rare for someone in his position. The only one who is close in this generation is James Baker.

when no one else would.

my father adored him and gave time to some of Harriman's charities
for orphans.

Poor Pop. He also liked Nixon. Just bad taste as far as politicians

Brown Brothers Harriman, the bankers/brokers that Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker were involved with - they who helped launder money for Hitler via I.G. Farben?

.

Edwards was just invited to come and talk to them.

I gather Clinton was also, but is not a member.

before we support their candidacy or elect them

Openly ASK THEM IN FRONT OF THE WORLD

AND THEN THE NEXT QUESTION FROM US WOULD BE

AND EXACTLY WHAT ARE THE GOALS OF NWO OR 1 WORLD GOVT.

HOW WILL IT GOVERN AND WHAT WILL IT DO FOR THE PEOPLE?????

If it's not too late, that might be the way to expose it.

We need to get Kerry elected then be loud and vociferous when he does his selecting for his cabinet and underlings when we see any of these traitors in his list.

now.

That leaves us with a big question mark,plus the fact that
Kerry is a product of Skull and Bones which has produced many on that list...and your current dumbass in DC

what we have. We need to contact Bev and tell her to push for provisional ballots at all polls in case of a massive power failure. In light of the last one we had in the east, maybe she can get some traction on it. A big power failure would close down polls.
Know how to contact Bev?

very good idea about paper ballots if it's not too late.

very good idea about paper ballots if it's not too late.

(:

An interesting read about Minoru Yamasaki, architect of the WTC and a favorite designer of OBL's family.

-snip-

For Yamasaki, an architect with a keen mathematical mind and a taste for ornamental pattern-work, this brush with the intricate geometries of Islamic architecture was inspiring, and he began to incorporate arabesques and arches into his work. For the next 12 to 15 years he played with Islamic forms in projects as diverse as the Federal Science Pavilion at the Seattle World's Fair, the Eastern Airlines Terminal at Logan Airport, and even the North Shore Congregation Israel in Glencoe, Ill.

-snip-

Yamasaki received the World Trade Center commission the year after the Dhahran Airport was completed. Yamasaki described its plaza as "a mecca, a great relief from the narrow streets and sidewalks of the surrounding Wall Street area." True to his word, Yamasaki replicated the plan of Mecca's courtyard by creating a vast delineated square, isolated from the city's bustle by low colonnaded structures and capped by two enormous, perfectly square towers—minarets, really. Yamasaki's courtyard mimicked Mecca's assemblage of holy sites—the Qa'ba (a cube) containing the sacred stone, what some believe is the burial site of Hagar and Ishmael, and the holy spring—by including several sculptural features, including a fountain, and he anchored the composition in a radial circular pattern, similar to Mecca's.

-snip-

As a scion of the Binladin contracting firm, destined to inherit some portion of its vast operations, Osama Bin Laden would certainly have been aware of Yamasaki's Saudi Arabian projects. Indeed, his family may have built them. (Minoru Yamasaki Associates won't say, but the Binladens were involved with almost all royal construction.) While Osama was in college in the mid-'70s, Yamasaki was designing his second generation of Saudi work, and the World Trade Center—then the tallest building in the world times two—came to completion in New York. This period was the high-water mark both for Yamasaki's world reputation and for the Saudis' national construction plan—which in Saudi Arabia must have brought a heightened sense of importance to the World Trade Center.

Having rejected modernism and the Saudi royal family, it's no surprise that Bin Laden would turn against Yamasaki's work in particular. He must have seen how Yamasaki had clothed the World Trade Center, a monument of Western capitalism, in the raiment of Islamic spirituality. Such mixing of the sacred and the profane is old hat to us—after all, Cass Gilbert's classic Woolworth Building, dubbed the Cathedral to Commerce, is decked out in extravagant Gothic regalia. But to someone who wants to purify Islam from commercialism, Yamasaki's implicit Mosque to Commerce would be anathema. To Bin Laden, the World Trade Center was probably not only an international landmark but also a false idol.

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2060207

All that can be hoped for is to roll back the advances they have made since the 50's.

It is a balancing act. Each side needs the other. Their latest push for dominance will be their undoing of all their 'advances' for the last 50 years because they can no more win totally than we can win totally.

They are the 'owners' in the traditional sense and we are the 'workers'. They believe they can subjugate a world of workers in slavery conditions. That never works. Didn't work in the past, it will not work this time, because....there are more of us than them.

There is a statue of two men in loin cloths locked in a death struggle. I do not know who made it, Rodin maybe? But thats the situation. An eternal struggle.

on it....D. R., what a wonderful example.....


Even if we discarded the ones who are visible, the moles in the
government, this one, would still be there and raise up again, just
as Libby and Wolfowitz and the others have been bureaucrats in govt
or in universities for years.

BTW , Libby is on the list. not by the name Scooter...First name C.

It sucks.

maybe we can have some influence on who gets into positions of power in the government. If any known ones come up it's time to push them back out, and keep a watch out for new ones.

In our administration!

Maybe he'd consider a post in the Department of Peace though.