U.S. delegation meets with President Aristide / details of coup

[Tinoire]

U.S. DELEGATION MEETS WITH PRESIDENT ARISTIDE
ARISTIDE REVEALS DETAILS OF COUP


Press release for email distribution
For Immediate Release
March 8, 2004

Contact:
Sarah Sloan or Brian Becker
202-544-3389, 212-633-6646

A delegation from the United States met twice today with overthrown Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in Bangui, Central African Republic. Following the first meeting, President Aristide held a news conference at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and then conducted a 30-minute phone interview in English with Pacifica Radio's Democracy Now.

The delegation includes Kim Ives from Haiti Progres and the Haiti Support Network, and Johnnie Stevens and Sara Flounders from the International Action Center. Ives, Flounders and Stevens are representing former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark. Also on the delegation are Brian Concannon, acting in the capacity of President Aristide's lawyer; and Katherine Kean, a friend of President Aristide.

Aristide's press conference today and his meeting with the U.S. delegation constituted a remarkable turnabout from the day before when the delegation was barred by the Central African Republic government from meeting with Aristide. Following the refusal to give the delegation access to meet with the ousted Haitian president, a press release entitled "Aristide Under Lock & Key" circulated around the world. Thousands of individual activists and organizations submitted the press release and statement to local media throughout the United States in a high-visibility emergency mobilization to tell the truth. The Central African Republic officials have made it clear that their country is under severe pressure from the United States and France.

The Curtain of Silence that has surrounded President Aristide since the February 28/29 coup has now been significantly opened as a consequence of this political intervention. The world, and especially the Haitian people, has been anxious to hear from President Aristide. It is precisely for this reason that the U.S. State Department and the French Foreign Ministry have applied so much pressure to the Central African Republic to prevent him from having access to the media, and to his attorneys, friends and supporters.

The delegation arranged for President Aristide to be interviewed by Pacifica Radio's Democracy Now. Amy Goodman of Democracy Now introduced today's interview with these words:

"Moments before the Democracy Now! interview, Aristide appeared publicly for the first time since he was forced out of Haiti in what he has called a US-backed coup. The authorities in the Central African Republic allowed Aristide to hold a news conference after a delegation of visiting U.S. activists charged that the Haitian president was being held under lock and key like a prisoner. The delegation included one of Aristide's lawyers, Brian Concannon, as well as activists from the Haiti Support Network and the International Action Center, representatives of former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark. Shortly after they arrived in Bangui on Sunday, the delegation attempted to meet with Aristide at the palace of the Renaissance. The CAR government rebuked them.

"Shortly after, the country's foreign minister held a press conference in Bangui. Armed men threatened journalists in the room, warning them not to record the minister's remarks. Mildred Aristide, the Haitian First lady, was brought into the room, but was not permitted to speak. The CAR foreign minister told the journalists that President Aristide would hold a news conference within 72 hours. Hours later, Aristide was allowed to address journalists.

"In his interview on Democracy Now!, Aristide asserted that he is the legitimate president of Haiti and that he wants to return to the country as soon as possible. He details his last moments in Haiti, describing what he called his 'kidnapping' and the coup d'etat against him."

In his press conference and in the direct meetings with the delegation, "President Aristide was very forceful about the fact that he was kidnapped, and that his government is being replaced by a U.S.-sponsored government of occupation," said Sara Flounders of the International Action Center. President Aristide also said that "only his return to Haiti can bring peace, and he stated that the people who carried out this campaign against his government are internationally recognized criminals.

"President Aristide said that he had been lied to by the U.S. ambassador, who assured him that he was being taken to a press conference to talk with international and Haitian media. He was instead forced onto a plane and taken out of the country in a U.S. coup d'etat," according to Flounders. "President Aristide also pointed out the irony that Haiti, which only has 1.5 doctors for every 11,000 people, now has seen the closing of its primary medical school and that school is now being used to house U.S. Marines and other foreign soldiers."

President Aristide expanded on this point both in the press conference and in his interview on Democracy Now!: "In my country, after 200 years of independence - we are the first Black independent country in the world - but we still have only 1.5 Haitian doctors for every 11,000 Haitians. We created a university, we founded a university with the faculty of medicine that has 247 students. Once U.S. soldiers arrived in Haiti after the kidnapping, what did they do? They closed the faculty of medicine and they are now in the classrooms. This is what they call peace. This is the opposite of peace. Peace means investing in human beings, investing in health care, respect for human rights, not violations of human rights, no violations for the rights of those who voted for an elected President, and this is what it means. ... How can you imagine that you come to me, you want to be in peace, and you close my university and you send out 247 students of medicine in the country where you don't have hospitals and you don't have enough doctors. God, this is an occupation. When you protect killers, when you protect drug dealers like Guy Philippe, like Chamblain, when you protect the citizens of the United States in violating the law of the United States, Mr. Andy Apaid is a citizen of the United States, violating the Neutral Act, the way with this act will destroying our Democracy, and once we do that, then this is an occupation." (quotation from Democracy Now!)

Kim Ives, who is with the Haiti Support Network and is a journalist with the newspaper Haiti Progres, is a member of the delegation and had an opportunity to speak to President Aristide in Creole during the meeting following today's press conference. Ives states that Aristide's account of the events of February 28-29 stand in sharp contrast to the account given by Colin Powell and other U.S. officials to the Washington Post on March 3. The U.S. "story" was that Aristide was ready to leave the country and that they simply facilitated his departure at his request. Colin Powell and other U.S. officials later said that Aristide's assertion that he had been the victim of a U.S. coup were "absurd" and "not true."

Ives stated, "The Washington Post and other U.S. media coverage gives the impression that the sequence of events leading to Aristide's departure at 6 am on February 29 began around 4 or 5 am when Aristide allegedly called U.S. officials and asked for their assistance in leaving the country. President Aristide told me that in fact 'armed Americans and diplomats' came to his residence the day before - that is, on the evening of February 28. Aristide reported that U.S. officials told the 19 security guards that have functioned as a presidential security detail that they should abandon their posts. These 19 security guards were on assignment from the Steele Foundation and are mostly former members of the U.S. Special Forces. They were told by U.S. officials that they 'wouldn't be protected, the gig was up.' President Aristide asserts that these Steele Foundation security guards basically obeyed the orders from their former employers (the Pentagon). They were flown by helicopter on Saturday night away from the preidential palace, leaving Aristide with no armed protection."

A recent Miami Herald article on the subject reported that another 25 reinforcement security guards from the Steele Foundation, who were supposed to arrive Saturday, February 28, received a call Friday night telling them that the U.S. would block their deployment.

Mr. Ives also stated that "President Aristide was told by U.S. Ambassador James Foley that the U.S. officials and armed forces would take him to a press conference with the international and Haitian press, where President Aristide could make his case. President Aristide agreed to go on the condition that he could speak to the media, and also that his home would be protected from any attack or looting. The fact is, the press conference never took place and his home was looted almost immediately after he left.

"President Aristide was instead driven to a plane. Upon arriving at approximately 5 am on February 29, he found his 19 security guards already there. They were all flown - including the one-year-old child of one of the guards - to the Central African Republic. After spending 20 hours on a plane flying to a destination unknown to them, the security guards were then flown back to the Untied States. The trip prevented them from revealing the details of the coup until after Aristide was out of Haiti and in the Central African Republic.

"In the course of the discussions with President Aristide, it became clear that the timing of the coup coincided with several international developments that could have shifted the relationship of forces in the Haitian government's favor. While the U.S. government escalated pressure on Aristide to resign in that last week, the government of South Africa had sent a planeload of weapons that was set to arrive on Sunday, February 29. Venezuela was in discussions about sending troops to support Aristide. There was also gathering international support and solidarity for the maintenance of constitutional democracy in Haiti. African American leaders were receiving increasing media attention as they denounced the efforts towards a coup. Two prominent U.S. delegations, one led by members of the Congressional Black Caucus and another led by former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, were set to arrive within days. We can see that there were various converging influences of aid about to come. This accounts in large part for the timing of the coup, it explains why the U.S. had to rush in and remove Aristide," concluded Ives.

Johnnie Stevens of the International Action Center stated, "Today, as a consequence of strong international pressure, the people of Haiti and the rest of the world have had a chance to hear President Aristide refute the lies and slanders of the U.S. government and its henchmen from the former Haitian military who are behind the coup. We believe that the U.S has tried to muzzle or silence President Aristide, not simply to stop one man from speaking out. The goal is to discourage the people of Haiti from continuing the growing struggle demanding President Aristide's return. It is really an effort to muzzle, silence and pacify the people in order to impose U.S. regime change."

Stevens continued, "The people of Haiti have been a source of inspiration for two centuries. Their struggle for freedom, independence and sovereignty is part and parcel of the struggle of oppressed people everywhere. We must continue to do everything in our power to stand up against the racist designs of the Bush administration."

In his interview with Democracy Now!, President Aristide was asked if he planned to return to Haiti. His response: "If I can go today, I would go today. If it's tomorrow, tomorrow. Whenever time comes, I will say yes, because my people, they elected me."

To schedule an interview with a member of the delegation or to get more information, contact Sarah Sloan or Brian Becker at 202-544-3389 or 212-633-6646.

To read the March 7 press release - "Aristide Under Lock & Key" - go to
http://www.internationalanswer.org/news/update/030704haiti.html


http://www.internationalanswer.org/news/update/030804haiti.html

[bicentennial_baby]

1. Wow

Just WOW for now...

[Judi Lynn]

2. This is staggering news.

There would have been a benevolent convergence had he stayed in place a few days.

So utterly evil.

I recall DU'ers were discussing the news that we'd heard Venezuela had planned to send assistance, and that South Africa had sent weapons, and apparently _Bush had the intelligence community feeding him the info. he wanted THIS TIME to help him devastate this man and his elected position.

Very sad. Thank you, Tinoire. We all REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

I would pray that this time there will be some kind of chastisement in the offing for these fools.

[Florida_Geek]

3. With U.S. Ambassador James Foley as the point man

Coloon can not play Dumb

[susu369]

13. Does anyone know

if Ambassador James Foley is kin to Florida Representative Mark Foley - Repuglican?

Just curious.

[Rex]

4. This is amazing

Wow indeed.

EDIT - the part about South Africa sending a planeload of weapons - does it have any connection with the mercs caught (I forget where) without any weapons (their departure point was from a S.A. airport).

[AP]

9. I read that as SA sending weapons to help Aristide.

[Say_What]

16. Part of CARICOM findings--but the weapons are missing

It was in an article from the Jamaican Observer or maybe Jamaican Gleaner last week. Shouldn't be too hard to find if anyone's interested.

[Say_What]

77. South Africa team meets Aristide

<clips>

A delegation from South Africa has arrived in the Central African Republic (CAR) to hold talks with Haiti's exiled President, Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

South Africa has said it would consider giving asylum to Mr Aristide, who has been in CAR since 1 March.

He has claimed that troops sent by the US and France kidnapped him and forced him to leave Haiti.

His legal team has announced it is preparing cases against the envoys of the two countries.

The South African delegation - led by deputy Foreign Minister Aziz Pahad - is to meet CAR leaders and Mr Aristide to discuss his plans for permanent asylum, AP news agency reported, citing CAR Foreign Minister Charles Wenezoui.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3497434.stm

[JoeKSimmons]

22. We decided that the mercs were made in America to be used illegally

I doubt we would send them to Haiti for a legal and noble cause.

[arcane1]

5. it never ends, does it...?

:evilfrown:

[Katarina]

6. Just shaking my head

Like someone else said - so utterly evil. That pretty much says it all. I fear for this world.

[tom_paine]

7. Thanks, Tinoire!

I know I believe Aristide over the Imperial Family.

No contest.

[AP]

8. I wonder what would have happened if Venezuela had sent troops in

before the US got in there.

[frank frankly]

11. scary thought, AP

WWIV is still a very real possibility with BushCo in charge.

[JoeKSimmons]

44. The US Marines would have given them one chance to surrender

After that they would have issued body bags for the Chavez troops to take their remains home in. The Chavez military may be good at controlling the radical middle class back home but the US Marines are a force to be reckoned with.

[AP]

52. That wasn't my point. Would the US really have engaged directly

with Venezuelan troops? Not likely. But they certainly wouldn't have done nothing.

[never cry wolf]

10. Thank you Tinoire

Amazing piece! Not that many here have many doubts.

I hope you have heard from your friends and relatives and they are all ok!

[goforit]

54. Here-here!!!.........This is absolutely shocking and beyond belief.

Where do the French come in here?

Was Bush doing them a favor or visa versa.


Too many people have signed the contract with Satan and
will most certainly fall from this point on.

[jakpalmer]

76. Shameful !

As a french i feel really ashamed about my country's involvement in that tragic coup.

I'd really like to know more, but apparently the media here are not very interested in digging into it.

Shame on my government for pairing with Forrest W. Bush and his stooges. :grr:

[Mika]

12. Democracy Now link

This link will take you to the D-N page where you can select listening options


EXCLUSIVE:
ARISTIDE SPEAKS TO DEMOCRACY NOW! IN MOST EXTENSIVE ENGLISH-LANGUAGE INTERVIEW SINCE HIS REMOVAL FROM HAITI
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/08/1529222



ps - Thanks Tinoire

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. Surprise level= 0.

Thanks for a great post.

I am, however, surprised that a few noted apologists haven't shown up yet.

[htuttle]

15. I think they've moved on to Venezuela

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. Lol

Just flipped over to one of those threads. Learned about El Universal(translation:Washington Times). Lucky me.

[Oilwellian]

25. It must be their day off

The rightwing propaganda machine can only afford to pay them 5 days per week. Perhaps they should start outsourcing.

[Blaze Diem]

18. My President Is A Psycopath

This is the absolute last friggen straw!! The Satanic Cabal that occupies our White House, and dares to call themselves "Christian"..has committed the ONE Last Atrocity...IMPEACH BUSH REGIME.

Is there a method of stripping the powers of a President who has obviously grown from the depths of hell? Humanity on this Planet Earth cannot tolerate one more day of a political regime, that is as evil and corrupt as the terrorist organizations they presently seek to destroy. The lines are becomming blurred anymore, when defining one or the other...

Can any U.S. Citizen have Bush and his regime immediately stripped of his powers? Does it have to be an impeachment? Or can THE People of the USA, demand it somehow???
THis proves that our judgment of GWBush has been correct from the day he first ran for President...

Talk about too much power in the hands of a few psycopaths.

Can we have our Country Back NOW!!???
May God Help Our Nation.!

[Dirk39]

37. As nearly all of the other presidents of the USA including Clinton...

and Kerry will not be different in any way...
Would be easy for him to tell the truth now. He could be on every news channel in the entire world including Fox-News and CNN, but he will not be. And he doesn't want to be. It's not Bush, it's about the people, who really rule your country. And in this case it's about Chiraq and France, too. I'm just happy that Germany has no dog in this house, as Clinton would have formulate. If you're really out for the truth, please go a bit further.


"When Aristide was overthrown by the 1991 military coup, the Organization of American States declared an embargo. Bush I announced that the US would violate it by exempting US firms. He was thus "fine tuning" the embargo for the benefit of the suffering population, the New York Times reported. Clinton authorized even more extreme violations of the embargo: US trade with the junta and its wealthy supporters sharply increased. The crucial element of the embargo was, of course, oil. While the CIA solemnly testified to Congress that the junta "probably will be out of fuel and power very shortly" and "Our intelligence efforts are focused on detecting attempts to circumvent the embargo and monitoring its impact," Clinton secretly authorized the Texaco Oil Company to ship oil to the junta illegally, in violation of presidential directives. This remarkable revelation was the lead story on the AP wires the day before Clinton sent the Marines to "restore democracy," impossible to miss - I happened to be monitoring AP wires that day and saw it repeated prominently over and over -- and obviously of enormous significance for anyone who wanted to understand what was happening. It was suppressed with truly impressive discipline, though reported in industry journals along with scant mention buried in the business press."

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_5557.shtml


And they're not psychopathic in any way. They know 100% what they do.
If they can go on and on and on with this, from democrats to republicans and back again, and you still think it's about the character of one of them. Be happy.
Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[goclark]

19. Say It Isn't So

I simply can't believe the arrogance of this administration!
When are we going to have World Wide Marches again?
When do I march? I am tired of just expressing my anger and frustration and it doesn't count enough to matter to this BushBand of Thugs!

We need a 21st Century March/Protest Plan. Is there a website for Peaceful Protest?

If he can do it to Haiti, he can do it everywhere. This regime wants to take over the world.

What can we do?

[htuttle]

20. March 20, Be there -- that's next Saturday

Check your local http://www.indymedia.org site for locations and times. Major cities on both coasts and in between are going to be doing somethieng. It's theoretically a worldwide march against the war in Iraq, but personally, my sign is going to say:

US OUT OF
Iraq
Afghanistan
Haiti
Columbia
Phillipines
Venezuela

...and I'm going to make sure to leave some room at the bottom, in case I need to add something like Equatorial Guinea at the last minute. (and I think I probably forgot some -- US troops are in dozens of countries right now doing one thing or another).

on edit: better link for March 20
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=2136

[JoeKSimmons]

24. Why not get the US out of these too?

Germany
South Korea
Japan
and everywhere else?

Why stop at there?

[truthspeaker]

73. not a bad idea!

But currently the people in those countries actually want us there, unlike Iraq, Haiti, and the Phillipines.

Although they could change their minds quickly, particularly in Germany and Japan.

[Minstrel Boy]

27. I need to scream in a crowd of tens of thousands

about this round-the-clock, round-the-fucking-globe horror show!

And damn Paul Martin for allotting 450 Canadian troops to this wicked coup. Twenty years ago, Canada was a sanctuary to Aristide. Undoubtedly, if Martin had been PM this time last year, Canadian forces would have taken Iraqi lives.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

31. US forces are in over 130 countries.

Leave lots of room.

[htuttle]

32. Damn...

I'm gonna need a bigger sign...

[Minstrel Boy]

39. I love the US, but does it have to be

EVERYWHERE????

[goclark]

36. Thanks for the Peace March Info

I'll do my best to be there!

[Jazzgirl]

38. Don't forget to add

Leave Cuba Alone!

[darkstar]

21. Thanks for keeping us on top of this Tinoire

Imagine it's tough duty for you. It's tough on this relatively detached observer. I feel sadder than I ever thought I could for my country. Just awful.

[Tinoire]

40. Thanks.

It's really tough duty. As a Haitian-American who is more American by mentality but more Haitian by blood.

I am outraged that my country America dares to do this. And outraged that my country Haiti must suffer so.

Thanks for your kind, warm, thoughts.

[JoeKSimmons]

23. former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, were set to arrive within days

What possible help could Ramsey Clark provide?

[thebigidea]

35. you should go instead, you'd be a great asset

[JoeKSimmons]

42. If I were in charge Aristide would still be in Haiti

And I'd be sitting by the fire with my slippers and pipe.

[JoeKSimmons]

26. How reliable is internationalanswer.org ?

Can we take everything at their word to be true here? Was there an independent source there to confirm all these statements are true?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. I wouldn't take anyone's word for everything.

But they seem reliable so far. It's just my opinion.

[seemslikeadream]

29. Noam Chomsky Must Read! US-Haiti, An Analysis

Critical Analysis

Noam Chomsky Must Read! US-Haiti, An Analysis
By Noam Chomsky
Mar 9, 2004, 15:51


Those who have any concern for Haiti will naturally want to understand how its most recent tragedy has been unfolding. And for those who have had the privilege of any contact with the people of this tortured land, it is not just natural but inescapable. Nevertheless, we make a serious error if we focus too narrowly on the events of the recent past, or even on Haiti alone. The crucial issue for us is what we should be doing about what is taking place. That would be true even if our options and our responsibility were limited; far more so when they are immense and decisive, as in the case of Haiti. And even more so because the course of the terrible story was predictable years ago -- if we failed to act to prevent it. And fail we did. The lessons are clear, and so important that they would be the topic of daily front-page articles in a free press.

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_5557.shtml

[JohnOneillsMemory]

30. IMPEACH BUSH NOW IMPEACH BUSH NOW IMPEACH BUSH NOW.

And now I'd like to quote George H. W. Bush:

"This...will...not...stand."

[JoeKSimmons]

33. And your post count reads 911 on this post

How strange is that?

[MidwestMomma]

34. Outraged by the news but glad his isolation is over

Where will this go from here? I don't think this one will just go away for Bushco...I fervently hope so anyway.

So far we have CARICOM and AU calling for an investigation. We have Aristide's lawyers planning on suing the French diplomatic service and the Bush Admin.

But meanwhile, the Haitians are going thru hell thanks to the evil that is this administration. Read earlier about the man shot because he ran a road block. Can't they just shoot out the fuckin' tires or something? Good god. You have a country overrun by armed former death squad members, armed rebels and armed foreign troops...how you suppose to know the difference between the 'good guys' with the guns and the bad guys.

And it seems to me that if I was a poor Haitian, I would assume anyone with guns is more than likely going to hurt me.

Heard a reporter on NPR talking about how the poor of Haiti refer to the 'ruling class' as the MRE's. That stands for Morally Repugnant Elites. I like that term and think it applies equally to the 'ruling class' in this country.

Glad to hear Concannon is involved. As the attorney that successfully prosecuted some of the death squad members, he knows what it is to take on a big fight and win. Of course, the rebels freed all those murderers from jail after Aristide left. Another crime against humanity by Bush Inc.

I hope today marks a turning point for Aristide and Haiti. Peace to all the supporters of democracy here and abroad.

[Tinoire]

41. You are so sweet. The news is much worse than anything being reported

in the press. My mother's aunt told her that many of the poor neighboorhoods are burning (Aristide had built nicer homes for many of them there) and that there's gun-fire all night long. People are being burned alive and neither the unseeing French, the Americans, nor the Canadians are intervening. It didn't help that 2 days ago, the rebels were holding a celebratory march under the escort of US and French troops.

I'm no prophet but I fear this is all going to turn very badly because, after years of being badly treated by the Haitian business elite (which is mostly foreign-born & in Haiti only a few decades and really should be somewhat separated from the old genteel elite descended from the original Mulattos but that is too complicated to get into here), Aristide had instilled pride in the oppressed poor and the people spent a year preparing for 2004 which was to be their celebratory bicentennial of independence from the French. The independence was hard and very brutally won- very brutally and Dessalines phrase of "koupe tet, bwule kay" (Cut off their heads & burn down their homes) was repeated for an entire year in remembrance of what it took for them to get out from under the heavy yoke of French slave-owners. Sub-conscious hatred of the French is in every poor Haitian's blood as is sub-conscious hatred of the US Marines who had a very brutal occupation from 1915-1934 (thousands of poor people were slaughtered for resisting the occupation). The coup took place in the second month of the celebrations.

Can you imagine the anger? I am not there... I can only imagine that it must be very great. When I read the Haitian message boards (the non US-funded & non-Duvalieriste ones of course) there are many quotes by Dessalines and L'Ouverture and references to what must be done again if they want to be free so that they can continue along the independent path Aristide was setting.

Even the thugs that the US government laughably calls rebels have stated that they only wanted US help to get Aristide out but not an occupation.

Haitians slaughtered Napoleans troops. What will they do to Bush's & Chiraq's if they are angry enough. And as we all know, Bush is so transparent. He hasn't fooled anyone in Haiti and I don't think they're going to take this lying down.

Time will tell. I only pray as few people get hurt as possible.

Thanks

[JoeKSimmons]

43. Haitians slaughtered Napoleon's troops

I doubt they will lay a glove on the US Marines. The Marines are there to keep the peace and any Haitians planning to cause them harm would be making a big mistake. Napoleon didn't have the US Marines on his side so it's hardly and issue now.

1000 Marines are armed and trained well enough to take on 100,000 Haitians and not even incur a 5% casualty rate.

[Minstrel Boy]

46. "Napoleon didn't have the US Marines on his side"

It's by such hubris that imperial powers topple into memory.


Missiles flying in the Third World
But fits and starts are everywhere
From the mountains of Chiapas
To the streets of Central Square
Empires fall
This one will, too
So here's to the day
When this one is through
- David Rovics, "Contras, Kings and Generals"

[Tinoire]

47. You just keep wishing it hard enough & maybe it will come true

but you know what? Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore.


The US command there is scared shitless and that is one of the reasons they dare not disarm the rebels.

The US Forces are not there to keep the peace. Where on earth did you get such a hare-brained idea? Certainly not at DU. They are there and admittedly so to protect US business interests such as the duplicitious embassy, the sweatshops, the ware-houses and of course, the airport.

[JoeKSimmons]

49. Please point out any "wishing" on my part

If the Marines are not there to keep the peace then WHY are they there? I don't buy into the sweatshop and warehouse defense...it makes no sense.

[Dirk39]

50. Money never makes sense...

there must be higher reasons...

Please give me one single example after World War Two, where Marines did leave the U.S.A., to keep "peace".
In Vietnam?
In Chile?
In Guatemala?
In Iraq?
In Nicaragua?

In this case - Haiti -, money really might not be the issue, it's just about setting an example: whoever dares to install any kind of social justice and thereby could set an example for other countries will be shut down.
Vietnam comes to mind. There wasn't much profit to expect there, too. But alone to set an example was worth killing and slaughtering 2-4 million vietnames people. No Nuremberg.

Esp. if the victim is defenceless and has no army. In a way, Aristide is just another Allende. Pacifism doesn't work, if you deal with armed terrorists. And if you look for other reasons: buy a map. Cuba and Venezuela could need a little U.S. Marines kind of peace, too.
No Oil, no money, just higher goals.

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[AP]

55. Dont' stop at WWII. Here's what Smedley Butler said about his time in the

Marines:

Smedley Butler on Interventionism

-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.


http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm

[Tinoire]

60. Smedley Butler's troops slaughtered thousands of Haitian poor 4 resisting

the 1915-1934 occupation. I admire Butler for exposing things afterwards.

Here is one small story but there are many more: (Google in any combination "Smedley Buter" "Charlemagne Peralte" Cacos Corvees) By the way the US Marines are still very proud of having killed this man and you can find that proof if you search. He wasn't a bandit or a peasant; Peralte was an educated man who led the a huge group to resist the occupation and the slavery that came with it. (The Marines had reinstituted chain gangs of all things- not very popular as you can imagine!)


The brutality and racism of the invaders, and the dispossession of peasants as US corporations took over the spoils, elicited resistance. The Marine response was savage, including the first recorded instance of coordinated air-ground combat: bombing of rebels (Cacos) who were surrounded by Marines in the bush. An in-house Marine inquiry, undertaken after atrocities were publicly revealed, found that 3250 rebels were killed, at least 400 executed, while the Marines and their locally recruited gendarmerie suffered 98 casualties (killed and wounded). Leaked Marine orders call for an end to "indiscriminate killing of natives" that "has gone on for some time." Haitian historian Roger Gaillard estimates total deaths at 15,000, counting victims "of repression and consequences of the war," which "resembled a massacre." Major Smedley Butler recalled that his troops "hunted the Cacos like pigs." His exploits impressed FDR, who ordered that he be awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for an engagement in which 200 Cacos were killed and no prisoners taken, while one Marine was struck by a rock and lost two teeth.

The leader of the revolt, Charlemagne Péralte, was killed by Marines who sneaked into his camp at night in disguise. In an attempt at psywar that prefigured some of Colonel Edward Lansdale's later exploits in the Philippines, the Marines circulated photos of his body in the hope of demoralizing the guerrillas. The tactic backfired, however; the photo resembled Christ on the cross, and became a nationalist symbol. Péralte took his place in the nationalist Pantheon alongside of Toussaint.

Year 501 Copyright © 1993 by Noam Chomsky. Published by South End Press.
Chapter 8: The Tragedy of Haiti Segment 2/9
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/year/year-c08-s02.html

===


Marine Maj. Gen. Smedley Darlington Butler -- the first commandant of the new U.S.-created Haitian constabulary or Garde d'Haiti -- put it much more bluntly after retiring. The Marines in Haiti, he said, had been used as a ''glorified bill-collecting agency,'' declaring that he had been ''canned'' for refusing to cooperate with New York banking interests.

<snip>

Poor farmers made up all but a small fraction of Haiti's 2.5 million people in 1915, and they saw ''blan,'' or foreign, invaders as the enemy. They knew the role played by their ancestors in winning freedom from France in a long and bloody rebellion from 1791-1803. For decades after they were warned that the blan would return to try to seize their lands and enslave them.

<snip>

PEASANT UPRISING

That move provoked a bloody guerrilla war, climaxing in 1919. It was reminiscent in some ways of Iraq today, as Haiti's peasant farmers -- known as Cacos -- took up arms against the occupation. The Cacos -- seen by U.S. authorities as bandits -- promised to ``push the blans into the sea.''

<snip>


On Oct. 11, 1917, the Cacos attacked the Marine garrison in the Central Plateau town of Hinche. Among those captured was Charlemagne Peralte, who had refused to surrender his command in Leogane, south of the capital, when the Marines first landed in Haiti. Peralte, an educated Haitian and a native of Hinche, was sentenced to five years hard labor for his part in the abortive attack.

Peralte escaped and became the most wanted of the Caco leaders, with a $2,000 reward offered for him, dead or alive. The reward was a huge sum at the time, but paltry compared to the $25 million offered by the Americans for Saddam Hussein.

Marines, tipped off to his whereabouts, sneaked into a Caco camp Oct. 31, 1919, and killed Peralte, only to face the same dilemma U.S. troops did in Iraq: proving to a skeptical populace that Saddam Hussein's two sons were dead. Peralte's corpse was exhibited in Cap Hatien, where -- clothed only in a loincloth -- he was photographed upright and tied to a wooden door, giving the eerie appearance of a crucified Christ.

<snip>


http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues/2004/vol8n04/ThenNow.shtml

==

Bandits or Patriots?: Documents from Charlemagne Péralte
In 1910, an international consortium of banks refinanced Haiti’s international debt and took control of the country’s treasury. In 1914, the bank refused to issue gold payments to the Haitian government and asked the U.S. military to protect the gold reserves. On December 17, 1914, U.S. marines landed in Haiti and moved the gold to the bank’s New York vaults. Eight months later, the marines again landed in Port au Prince, Haiti’s capital, this time claiming the need to protect foreign lives and property. They placed Port au Prince under martial law, ruthlessly subdued armed resistance in rural areas, and began training a new Haitian militia. Charlemagne Péralte led a resistance movement. In this “call to arms” and letter to the French minister, Péralte attacked President Wilson as a hypocrite for claiming to respect the sovereignty of small nations of Europe while occupying Haiti and urged Haitians to resist the Americans. (An English translation of the letter follows the French version.)

<snip>

People of Haiti!

Soon a day like the 1st of January 1804 will rise. For four years the Occupation has been insulting us constantly. Each morning it brings us a new offense. The people are poor and the Occupation still oppresses us with taxes. It spreads fires and forbids us to rebuild wooden houses under the pretext of keeping the city beautiful.

Haitians, let’s stay firm. Let’s follow the Belgian example. If they burn our cities, it doesn’t matter! As the inscription on the tomb of the great Dessalines states: “At the first canon shot, giving the alarm, cities disappear and the nation stands up.”

The holy battle in the North is led by brave citizens. The South is only waiting for the right man to follow its wonderful example. Don’t worry, we have the arms. Let’s get rid of those savage people, whose beastly character is evident in the person of their President Wilson—traitor, bandit, trouble maker, and thief.

Die for your country.

Long live Independence!

Long live the Union!

Long live the just war!

Down with the Americans!

From Charles the Great Massena Peralte High Commander of the Revolution in Haiti to The French Minister in Haiti

Port-au-Prince

****

Honored Minister,

Despite the principles, of international law usually adopted by civilized nations, and coming out ofGreat War in Europe, the American Government got involved in the internal affairs of the small republic of Haiti and imposed a rule whose approval by the Haitian Parliament was guaranteed enforced by military occupation.

We were ready to accept this rule and follow its obligations, despite the threat to our autonomy and the dignity of our free and independent people. But the false promises, given by the Yankees, when they invaded our land, brought in almost four years of continuous insults, incredible crimes, killings, theft and barbarian acts, the secrets of which are known only to Americans.

Today we lost patience and we reclaim our rights, rights, ignored by the unscrupulous Americans, who by destroying our institutions deprive the people of Haiti of all its resources and devour our name and our blood. For four years, cruel and unjust Yankees brought ruin and hopelessness to our territory. Now, during the peace conference and before the whole world, the civilized nations took an oath to respect the rights and sovereignty of small nations. We demand the liberation of our territory and all the advantages given to free and independent states by international law. Therefore, please take into consideration that ten months of fighting has been in pursuit of this aim and that our victories give us the right to ask for your recognition.

We are prepared to sacrifice everything to liberate Haiti, and establish here the principles affirmed by President Wilson himself: the rights and sovereignty of small nations. Please note, honored Consul, that American troops, following their own laws, don’t have any right to fight against us.

Dear Sirs (sic), please, accept our distinguished salutations.

Signed by the High Commander of the Revolution

M. Peralte

followed by 100 other signatures

Source: Bandits or Patriots?: Documents of Charlemagne Péralte, National Archives.


http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/4946/

[AP]

61. USA! USA! USA!

Excuse me while I vomit.

Wouldn't Americans have made way more money if countries like Haiti had middle classes who were buying books from Amazon, and Apple Computers, and Segways?

[JoeKSimmons]

62. Down with the Americans!

Man, that kind of talk will not do anyone any good. Very non-productive to say the least.

[Dirk39]

69. Become productive, become electable....

the truth will not do anyone any good.
Dirk

[AP]

74. Smedley Butler was asked by Wall St to lead a coup against FDR and refused

so he's a patriot at least on that level.

It's probably VERY productive to talk about him on that level, on the level of, "what did a guy whom the right wing thought would be an appropriate coup leader, who refused to be a coup leader, think about the job he did in the US military?"

Butler was probably one of the most famous 'celebrities' in America at the time.

[Tinoire]

51. Free labor for corporations makes no sense to you?

Investor profits on the blood of people earning less than $1 day with no pesky unions, disability insurance, health-care, OSHA justifies much evil for many people.


Not to mention halting the spread of dangerous Leftist ideology telling the poor that they too are human and have rights.

I really wish I had time to go into the sweat-shops and warehouses with you. I don't tonight but if you are curious start researching "group 184", Andy Apaid, and Olivier Nadal who financed the rebels.

For the last 2 days the rebels have been very busy busting unions.

The only things the Western Armed Forces down there are protecting are the businesses & embassies. All of this has been scattered through many threads over the last week and for many people who cared/knew enough to pay attention before the coup, for several months.

If you are sincere, which for some odd reason I think you are, just post a thread in GD asking that question and many of us will bring you the evidence in clippings and links.

NAFTA, Free Trade, WTO, GATT- the poor don't want it because it exploits them.

Less than $1 day. Can you imagine that? And trust me $1 day in Haiti doesn't buy you shit in this new world where their agriculture was deliberately destroyed to force them to buy staples from the US. Pigs and rice used to be Haitian staples. The indigenous pigs were slaughtered by the USAID and the rice industry destroyed by cheap US subsidized rice that flooded their market for years. The American & Haitian financiers/supporters of this coup are the owners of the sweatshops.

We make those cheap baseballs for you for pennies a day. Poor women dip their unprotected fingers in a toxic liquid to keep the leather soft. Such practices are forbidden in the US. Haiti is where corporations such as Disney clothes and Levis go to keep the investors happy. Have you ever wondered why the jeans you wear are so cheap?

[JoeKSimmons]

63. Free labor makes no sense to me except for charity work

Who in their right mind would work for free every day?

[I AM SPARTACUS]

64. I guess you're figuring that there's no such thing as slavery anymore...??

[Tinoire]

72. Who in their right mind would work for less than $1/day & live like this

Hence Aristide's enormous support for daring the raise the minimum wage to the princely sof of $2 a day.

It is precisely because they are in their right mind that they support him over the business elite who extract the blood and the sweat of the poor in sweatshops.

[AP]

75. If you have nothing in the world, all you have to give is your labor.

If you own a big corporation and you want more profits, what you want is a world of people whose labor is devalued, and a world of people who are willing to go into debt to buy the shit you make with devalued labor.

[Dirk39]

56. During the first gulf war...

U.S. marines did dig up dead bodies of Iraquis out of the sand and commited indescribable atrocities to them. They were so disapointed not to get the chance to kill, torture and rape.
One U.S. marine did write a book about this "jarhead".



"JARHEAD: A MARINE SNIPER'S STORY

Adam Phillips
New York

Amid all the policy debate and the rhetoric surrounding a possible war in Iraq, it's likely that few civilians really know what it feels like to train for and fight in a war. A critically acclaimed new book, "Jarhead: A Marine's Chronicle of the Gulf War and Other Battles," shines a timely light on the grim realities of war.

In this finely-detailed memoir, author Anthony Swofford recounts the sometimes-anguished personal challenges he faced as an infantry sniper and scout with the US Marines or "Jarheads," as they call themselves- in Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm."
http://www.iraqcrisisbulletin.com/archives/031803/html/jarhead__a_marine_sniper_s_sto.html
He and his fellow grunts borrow much of their attitude from war movies. Raised on Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket, which the recruits watch over and over before they leave for the combat zone, Swofford mouths the values of the Jarhead, as if reading the script:
'I want ammunition and alcohol and dope, I want to screw some whores and kill some Iraqi motherfuckers.'
http://books.guardian.co.uk/writersoniraq/story/0,12975,921820,00.html

These are your peacekeeping marines, wake up!
Dirk

[Tinoire]

58. JoeKSimmons I must apologize to you

I thought you might be a freeper. My apologies. Just read some of your other 30 some posts and it is clear that was a sincere question from a well-meaning person. Sorry.

The Haitians will be no more squared of the marines than they will be of Napolean's cannons. Read up on the battle of Vertieres where they slaughtered the French by the thousands. 40,000 of Napolean's seasoned soldiers were killed. A hungry, angry people has little conscience.

The soldiers are in not in a very good situation down there.

[eablair3]

70. can't have a leftist success there or anywhere

There are several reasons at work,imo, as to why the U.S. is in Haiti, and has been in Haiti many many times before.

Tinoire covered a lot of them. There is a basic philosophy that those in power in the US want to see turned into a world wide system. That's what those in power call "free trade". It's really "protection for businesses and investors to freely operate in other countries." These policies are not in the best interests of the other developing countries. Aristide was against allowing foreign corporations to come in and totally take over the assets and industries of Haiti. Aristide was for empowering the people there and promoted education and health care for all there. Aristide wanted to double the minimum wage there. Aristide wanted the poorer Haitians to become empowered.

The elites in Haiti (those that own the businesses) and the foreign (US) corps all are very much opposed to that. Those people are the people in power in the US government.

And, these people do not want to see someone like Aristide (or Chavez) have any type of success. They absolutely fear that. If there is a small success with the majority of the people becoming empowered and getting education, health care, worker rights, etc, then that could spread throughout the region very fast. And, it might even spread into the US. That's what they fear. They do not want another Castro. So, they take whatever action they can to crush them. It was the same in Nicaragua, Guatemala, Chile, El Salvador, Honduras, Grenada and many other places in the past. I can hear Chomsky saying "the smaller the success, the greater the threat." I think there is a lot to that. They don't want to see someone like Aristide empower the poorer, working class of Haiti. Aristide has to be demonized by the wealthy who own the media and he has to utterly and completely be portrayed as a failure and better yet a thug and criminal. Thereby, he can be held up as an example of what a failure he is, while the "free trade" can be held up as a success. That's a huge amount of why the U.S. is there.

[Just Me]

78. Unfortunately, some things are true whether you believe them,...

,...or not. Just keep steady in your mind who is commander-in-chief.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

57. three short words...black...hawk...down...

is that what you want it Haiti? I don't think so...

[MidwestMomma]

45. A question...are the news channels showing ANY images from Haiti

I haven't watched CNN, etc for weeks so I was wondering. I will guess they are not because it sounds horrifying and that just wouldn't be allowed.

Has anyone heard any recent reports of refugees leaving by boat? You don't hear anything about that either, which is worrisome because it has to be happening. Or maybe the people have decided they will stay and fight this time.

That is so tragic about them celebrating their 200th aniversary. Just goes to show that people in charge of this country won't be satisfied until they piss all the joy out of this world. (Morally Repugnant Pusheads is what I will call them.)

[Tinoire]

48. There are reports about the refugees

I will try to post some for you but there have been many. The first Haitian forces Bush tried to get on his side are the Coast Guard- he is now paying their salaries.

Additionally the island is doubly blockaded by the US Coast Guard.

Still, some desperate enough manage to slip past the first layer and are rescued by the Cubans who are patrolling the same waters and taking the refugees to Cuba where they are guaranteed an honest asylum hearing. None are being returned to Haiti.

Bush had an additional 10,000 spaces created at Guantanamo for the Haitians with enough temerity to defy his order and take to the seas. Let me know if you need any links to any of these points and I'll find them for you.


won't be satisfied until they piss all the joy out of this world That's my thought too. They are down-right evil and petty. My consolation is that they will rot in hell.

[MidwestMomma]

53. Thanks for the information

I knew that leading up to the coup there had been refugees turned back but since the coup, hadn't heard any reports. Glad they are getting to Cuba.

About them all rotting in hell...Think hell is big enough? I think even Satan wouldn't want their rotting souls. He'll have to create a whole separate sub-hell just for them.

[tkmorris]

59. There was a hearing on Haiti recently

It was shown on C-SPAN, this was after Aristide had been flown out and the Marines landed.

Roger Noriega, Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs, was the man on the hotseat. He was questioned by, among others, Kendrick Meek, Representative from Florida. Meek asked him about the Coast Guard blockade and how they handled Haitians attempting to flee the violence. Noriega tried to feign ignorance but in the end answered truthfully that they were returned to shore at the closest possible port and simply kicked off the boat. Mr Meek pointed out that this in effect painted a target on the refugees backs, saying that rebels would likely single these people out to be killed. Mr. Noriega seemed to agree that this was so.

[Judi Lynn]

65. Roger Noriega could NOT have revealed a more unworthy face to the world

than he did in that hearing.

His uneasiness and shiftiness were more than obvious. He has buried his conscience so deeply he's simply unresponsive to wholesome, natural human experience, as in concern, respect, indentification with others.

The one great upshot for a person who only saw part of the program was it was a wonderful chance to discover that Kendrick Meek is a formidable presence in the House of Representatives. He's more than capable.

Too bad the same can't be said for Roger Noriega.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

66. well...he could have held up a photo of TonTon Bush...

...THAT would be a more unworthy face...(but between Noriega & Bush, we're just talking degrees of hell, yes?)

[Judi Lynn]

68. He chose people around him who speak his odd, delusional language.

I'm sure ALL the pResident's men would be fulfilled psychologically, spiritually to live as TonTons. Hey, _Bush lives as Francois Duvalier already!

[I AM SPARTACUS]

67. Red Cross rallies round for Haiti refugees

http://wwww.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/480fa8736b88bbc3c12564f6004c8ad5/d843acba999e1a8cc1256e4d00430afa?OpenDocument

Source: IFRC
Date: 4 Mar 2004
Red Cross rallies round for Haiti refugees

From Federation News 05/04
With the situation in Haiti still tense and uncertain following the resignation and flight into exile of the president, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, the International Federation and National Red Cross Societies in the Caribbean have been stepping up their assistance to victims of the violence inside the country and refugees who have fled to neighbouring countries. Some 400 Haitians have fled to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica and Cuba since the unrest began in early February. Another 500 have reportedly been intercepted by US coastguards. The Dominican Republic Red Cross, which has volunteers in border branches on stand-by, has made a commitment to provide medicines, ambulances and food to the Haitian Red Cross. The Jamaican Red Cross, which has been given the task of managing shelters for refugees, has given accommodation, food and hygiene kits to the more than 100 Haitians who have arrived in Jamaica, while the Cuban Red Cross, too, is assisting displaced people in camps run by the Cuban government in Punta de Maisi. With the ICRC leading the Movement's action inside Haiti, the Federation's focus is primarily on those leaving the county. It is, however, also concerned about the plight of those in Haiti and has released 60,000 Swiss francs from its Disaster Relief Emergency Fund to support the Haitian Red Cross in conducting an assessment of needs and planning a response...
<snip...more>

[Zhade]

71. Anti-coup kick

Fucking b*shies. Traitors, every one of them.

[Just Me]

79. Evidence mounts that the neocon administration,...

,...engages in behavior that is clearly ANTI-DEMOCRACY. What does one characterize those whose actions are anti-democracy and pro-corporatism? If corporatism = fascism, what are the neocons?

This administration represents the absolute worst in this country. It's members have proven their culpability in engaging in intentional, heinous abominations against humanity.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

80. Keep posting the truth, Tinoire!

This could go right down the memory hole, just like all the other Bush atrocities done in the name of Democracy.

We can't let that happen.