Aristide's guest privileges pared in exile

[Tinoire]

Aristide's guest privileges pared in exile

Aristide, 50, and his American wife, Mildred Trouillot, have been billeted in an apartment on the grounds of the president's mansion since Monday, when they arrived here from Port-au-Prince accompanied by Aristide's brother and two bodyguards.

The villa is part of the presidential mansion, which is located in the middle of the capital on a five-acre spread overlooking the Ubangui River, within sight of neighboring Democratic Republic of Congo.

The grounds surrounding his villa are immaculately groomed, and the area is heavily fortified, surrounded by a wall and military -- including French gendarmes.

Vehicles entering the compound are checked for explosives, and no members of the media are allowed entrance.

Aristide has access to satellite television, but his telephone privileges were revoked after he told CNN Tuesday that he had been forced to leave Haiti -- a victim of a U.S.-led coup -- and he is not allowed to leave his villa, his spokesman told CNN.

<snip>

Aristide's host and the leader of the government is Gen. Francois Bozize, a 55-year-old career military officer who seized power last March in a coup against the elected president, Ange Felix Patasse.

<snip>

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/03/05/aristide.exile/

[htuttle]

1. So...This should be QUITE CLEAR NOW

Aristide is not free.
Aristide is being held prisoner.

Why would a President resign only to go be held prisoner? For what reason?
Noriega admitted that Aristide did NOT choose to go to the Central African Republic.

To summarize what we know so far, from Congressional hearings, CNN, and several members of Congress: The US told Aristide that if he did not resign, he would be killed along with thousands of citizens of Port au Prince. They then put him on a plane, did not tell him where they were taking him, and dropped him off at a French prison in Africa.

The parallels to Toussaint L'Overature's imprisonment cannot be missed.

What century is this again? The 19th?

[Say_What]

3. That's what Maxine Water has been saying as well as Jeff Sachs

that he is in the CAR under ORDERS of the US government. In an article yesterday even CAR admitted that Aristide didn't know where they were taking him until about 40 minutes before the plane landed. Also, the Haitian General Counsel in NY is still recognizing Aristide as the President of Haiti.

I haven't read anything today but I did hear on KPFA that thousands (they reported about 10,000) of Haitians poured out of the slums today and protested in front of the US embassy saying Bush was a terrorist and demanding that Aristide be restored as president. Sounds like April 2002 Venenzuela to me.

[Tinoire]

4. The parallels to Toussaint L'Ouverture's imprisonment can't be missed but

what I fear is that the parallels to what happened after Toussaint L'Ouverture was abducted by the French; the slaves fought with renewed resolve. French people love their warm colonies but their warm colonies do not love them.

For a Lady I Know
By: Countee Cullen

She even thinks that up in heaven
Her class lies late and snores,
while poor black cherubs rise at seven
to do celestial chores.

========

On a more serious vein....


To Toussaint L'Ouverture

by William Wordsworth



TOUSSAINT, the most unhappy man of men!
Whether the whistling Rustic tend his plough
Within thy hearing, or thy head be now
Pillowed in some deep dungeon’s earless den;—
O miserable Chieftain! where and when
Wilt thou find patience? Yet die not; do thou
Wear rather in thy bonds a cheerful brow:
Though fallen thyself, never to rise again,
Live, and take comfort. Thou hast left behind
Powers that will work for thee; air, earth, and skies;
There’s not a breathing of the common wind
That will forget thee; thou hast great allies;
Thy friends are exultations, agonies,
And love, and man’s unconquerable mind.


This poem was written as L'Ouverture lay dying, imprisoned by Napoleon.


===

The Volunteers from Saint Domingue take Bold Action

On October 10th, the French and American forces begin their assault on the British positions. Unknown to them, however, a defector from the American troops had informed the British that the main thrust of the assault would come from a location called Spring Hill. When the American General Lincoln and Count d’Estaing led their troops to Spring Hill, the British were ready for them and routed them, inflicting many casualties. Lincoln and d’Estaing called for a retreat amid continued fire from the British. It was at this point that the French reserves, comprised mainly of the volunteers from Saint Domingue, rode into battle and cut off the British prohibiting them from leaving the city and annihilating Lincoln and d’Estaing’s men.


In a short hour, the Battle of Savannah had yielded more than 1,000 casualties, placing it alongside the Battle of Bunker Hill as one of the two bloodiest battles of the American Revolutionary War. The Volunteers of St. Domingue, exhibiting the excellent fighting skills and indomitable courage that would lead them to their own independence a quarter century later, were responsible for limiting the rout.

Some historians note that a young 12-year old drummer boy by the name of Henri Christophe, was wounded during the battle. If indeed he was present (and no irrefutable historical proof has yet been put forth to confirm this claim), it is certain that this battle had a great impact on the boy who would later fight alongside Toussaint Louverture for Haitian independence and subsequently become the first king of Haiti.

http://www.haiti-usa.org/historical/index.php?cp=1
===


UNTIL SHE SPOKE

Until she spoke, no Christian nation had abolished Negro slavery.

Until she spoke, no Christian nation had given to the world an organized effort to abolish slavery.

Until she spoke, the slave ship, followed by hungry sharks, greedy to devour the dead and dying slaves flung overboard to feed them, ploughed in peace the South Atlantic, painting the sea with the Negro’s blood.

Until she spoke, the slave trade was sanctioned by all the Christian nations of the world, and our land of liberty and light included.

Men made fortunes by this infernal traffic, and were esteemed as good Christians, and the standing types and representations of the Savior of the World.

Until Haiti spoke, the church was silent, and the pulpit was dumb.
Slave-traders lived and slave-traders died.

Funeral sermons were preached over them, and of them it was said that they died in the triumphs of the Christian faith and went to heaven among the just.

Frederick Douglass for Haiti

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

2. Remind me again... why would ANYONE want to go to CAR

vs practically anyplace on Earth?

Is Aristide going to begin research on AIDS or Ebola?

And, gee, I wonder who cut his sateilite phone service? The US maybe?

I get more disgusted with each chapter in this disaster.

[alittlelark]

5. Are we surprised, no

Are we shocked, no. Are we outraged....I hope the answer is yes. I have sent so many e-mails that my 'sent mail' box needs to be emptied every 2-3 days.

Why are we standing for this!!!

[Say_What]

6. LINK: Background on Haiti, US Interventions, Dictators and Butchers

Not only much information on Haiti, but a LONG list of all UN interventions from the 1700s (man, there are LOADS of them) to present. There's also a LONG list of dictators and butchers the US has supported over the last 60 years.

<clips>

Chronological list of interventions by the United States, with the purpose of opposing (or aiding opposition to) popular resistance movements—whether by means of overt force (OF)
or covert operation (CO)

1980-2002 – Peru (MRTA/Shining Path): success (CO)
1981-1992 – El Salvador (FMLN, etc): success (CO)
1981-1990 – Honduras (PCH, FPR, etc): success (CO)
1981-1981 – USA (air controllers strike): success (OF)
1982-1983 – Morocco (MOL): success (CO)
1982-1984 – Lebanon (leftist & Moslem resistance): failure (OF)
1986-1990 – Bolivia (peasants): success (OF)
1989-1989 – St. Croix (Black rebellion): success (OF)
1992-1992 – USA (LA uprising): success (OF)
1994-2002 – Mexico (EZLN/Zapatistas): success (CO)
1995-1998 – Japan (protestors in Okinawa): success (OF)
1996-2002 – Nepal (CPN): success (CO)

http://www.weblog.ro/soj/2004/03/03#6762

Dictators and butchers who have been financed and supported by the United States in the last 60 years:

Islam Karimov (Uzbekistan)
Reza Pahlavi - Shah (Iran)
Gen. Rafael Trujillo (Dom. Republic)
Anastasio Somoza (Nicaragua)
Hosni Mubarak (Egypt)
Ariel Sharon (Israel)
Augusto Pinochet (Chile)
Nuri as-Said (Iraq)
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire)
Ferdinand Marcos (Phillipines)
Fulgencio Batista (Cuba)
Generalissimo Franco (Spain)
Hissene Habre (Chad)
"Baby Doc" Duvalier (Haiti)
"Papa Doc" Duvalier (Haiti)
George Papadopalous (Greece)
Pervez Musharraf (Pakistan)
Pedro Carmona (Venezuela)
Jacobo Arbenz (Guatemala)

http://www.weblog.ro/soj/2004/03/03#6762

[Barkley]

8. You forgot "Operation Just Cause" and Manuel Noreiga (Panama)

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

10. And Cambodia 1973-1976 (CO) failure

and of course the Cold War (CO)(OF) 1945-1991 success, I guess.

[Just Me]

18. Those are the kind of lists that need to be spread,...

,...and I hope you don't mind, Say_What, if I copy that list and use it as "One possible answer to the question 'why do they hate us': because we have destroyed the possibility of democracy by funding violent coups." :D

<edited for clarity>

[eablair3]

7. it's not surprising that it's heavily fortified

I guess that's what you have to do when you taken over a country by coup and thrown out the democratically elected leader like those now in power in CAR did last year.

It's ironic that the democratically elected leader of Haiti ousted by coup is sent to a country where those now in power took power over another democratically elected leader by coup. No doubt that the BushCo feels more secure dealing with coup perpetrators who rules by force.

[Tom Kitten]

9. I wonder...

how come Baby Doc gets a cushy exile in France and Aristide gets the Central African Republic? Maybe an even poorer nation than Haiti? The press coverage of Haiti has proven beyond a shadow of any doubt there is no "mainstream" press in America any more...well, that goes without saying...

[Tinoire]

12. Because Baby Doc, unlike Aristide

was "rescued" from the masses and, as a corrupt leader, already had his millions, billions, in French bank accounts. He looted the country to the tune of several hundreds of millions of dollars.

Aristide, who was never planning to leave or to steal from the people, ended up in an appropriately poor place because he stole nothing.

Duvalier is on his way back to Haiti. The State Department is simply trying to figure out how to make it "palatable" to the real people. The business community is already all for it.

[Duck90MPH]

11. That must suck after living a life of luxury

It still sounds like he is living well above the means of nearly everyone left in Haiti. Do you think he will ever own another mansion or have the millions he was used to spending?

[AP]

13. He was a priest before he was president.

[Duck90MPH]

15. Let us pray for a swift return

To either his millions or his sainthood.

[AP]

16. "... of facts to this debate."

[Duck90MPH]

17. The fact remains that he had millions to spend on anything he wanted

My pity for millionaires is at the bottom of my todo list.

[Just Me]

20. The loyalists to corporate tyrants had millions,...

,...before they became the regime that controls this country. Obviously, you are either a follower or a slave to that neocon regime often characterized as "The Bush Administration".

[Duck90MPH]

22. You are quite wrong with your "or" binary about me

I am against millionaire tyrants AND the neocon crap you tried to ascribe to me. Just because one bad leader is out does not make the one(s) in the queue any better.

Don't pull that "obviously, you" lie against me again please.

[Just Me]

28. If you come on board treating issues as "black or white",...

,...then, you should be prepared to have your perspective treated as either "black or white". I will pull-out whatever you spew out. Consider me,...your mirror *smile*.

[Duck90MPH]

34. Hello me

:-) How am I doing today? If I had a million dollars I'd not have a 360 degree disgust for those that keep their million to themselves. My bad I know.

[Tinoire]

14. Boy are you "misinformed"

and "inadvertently" pushing propaganda. Aristide lived like a monk.

When he got married and had 2 children, he built the kind of home that the upper middle class in Haiti builds.

Sorry if you find it inappropriate for the President of the country to live in anything less than a hovel.

I am sure that, as a committed Democrat, you must find it quite bizarre that only the rich are complaining about Aristide's home. Hmmm. Things that make you just go hmmmmm.

However, as committed as you are to this issue, would you mind sending a letter to Bush and telling him how inappropriate you find his real estate investments? Especially the ones in the Middle East.

Thank you.

[Duck90MPH]

19. Aristide lived like a monk.

Then how was he married with two kids. As for his house...it could have been a spider hole and he would STILL have millions of dollars pilfered from the citizens to spend at his leisure.

Millionaires have it made in the shade and they don't need this progressive to defend them. If he is your man then more power to you but I can't accept a leader with millions while his people starve and suffer.

[Just Me]

21. Then you must totally loathe many of those who rule your country,...

,...which as tens of millions living below poverty, suffering from inadequate medical care, unable to find a job, injured from a rising violent crime rate, failing to acquire a decent education, etc. etc. etc.

[Duck90MPH]

24. You are exactly right

For once someone with a "Then you must..." reaction gets it right.

Thank you for getting it right.

[Judi Lynn]

23. At D.U. people provide links to charges they make

If you want credibility here, you really should post a link to ANY story of personal extravagance on the part of Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

By the way, the man left the priesthood in 1995.

You really need to educate yourself on the facts concerning this man, his country, and his country's history, as almost everyone else does who posts here.

[Duck90MPH]

38. Try this link...

http://www.wehaitians.com/chief%20bandit%20victims.html

It helps show the contrast between native People of Haiti and their "leader".

[dax]

42. I went to that site-its was like Fox news..all innuendo no FACTS

You don't understand how these foreign interventions work-it is easy to get gangs to run around Haiti and say they support whoever you pay them to say they support and commit whatever crimes you tell them to commit and since they are basic thugs-they will commit some spontaneous crimes as well. Since there is no real security force or adequate arms available-you can blame Aristide all you want but that doesn't justify US arming the opposition thugs and removing a head of a foreign government. It is a deliberate distraction and you are feeding it-there are plenty of leaders who ARE responsable for heinous crimes and daily civil rights abuses-and we don't arm thugs to invade them and then tell them they must leave or we will stand back and let the surrogate army conduct a full scale bloodbath-or they can sign a resignation so we can all "move on-. It is no more justified than Iraq, same garbage going on in Venezuala, I WOULD RATHER HAVE MY GOVERNMENT DEAL WITH WHETHER MY NEIGHBORS HAVE A JOB (I am one of the lucky ones for now), I'd rather see universal health care, free college and clean energy to name a few. as far as elections go,the entire WORLD knows we had a bogus election HERE-more than 90,000 people were denied the right to vote in Florida alone. My friends abroad say they cannot figure out why we didn't RIOT. They think Americans are retarded.

[htuttle]

25. Wow. What a pantload!

NOBODY has ever made credible suggestions that Aristide was fiscally corrupt. There were NOT 20,000 pairs of shoes in Mrs. Aristide's closet. There were NO shopping trips in Paris, ala Baby Doc. There were NO expensive cars and motorcycles, NO yachts, NO luxurious palaces filled with the people's money.

Here's an accounting of the $515 million they received in 1994-95:
http://haitireborn.org/campaigns/debt/where-did-the-money-go.php

Much of the foreign aid that flows into Haiti goes right back out. Most of it is used for imports the trade deficit reached a record U.S. $176 million for the first six months of 1995. Some goes to consultancies to foreign nationals, foreign financial assets or accounts owned by wealthy Haitian nationals. A US AID official in Haiti recently told visitors that 80 cents of every US AID dollar worldwide is actually spent in the U.S.

Balance of Payments Support: $217.9 million
This money goes directly to foreign banks, mostly US and French ones. The Haitian government never sees it.

Humanitarian Assistance: $88.2 million

According to the U.S.AID official who supplied these numbers to the World Bank, $60.5 million from the U.S. went to food aid and medical projects probably about $40 million in food aid, and the rest medical. U.S.AID claims to have rehabilitated two maternity hospitals and five health centers and trained seven biomedical technicians.

Governance: $68 million

Again, the biggest portion comes from the U.S. at $42.2 million. Some of this money is used to fund legitimate functions of government, whereas other parts (e.g. the Democracy Enhancement allocation of $5.2 million) are not. More than half of the U.S. funding is for police training. The remaining categories are election support, administration of justice and local governance all of which contain some legitimate and some very illegitimate activities. France also has a justice support grant of $10.3 million in this section.
MY NOTE: Some of this money was diverted to the IRI via NED to fund the 'opposition party' according to Roger Noriega answering Maxine Waters in a House hearing recently.

Water and Urban Infrastructure: $42.2 million

Although these funds have the potential to help change peoples lives significantly in the vital area of water resources, not much has yet been accomplished because most of the funds are reserved for future years.
(snip)
For example, the IDA has committed a $21.7 million loan for the Port-au-Prince Water Supply, but only $100,000 of it was actually disbursed in 1994-95. In the same vein, France has committed a loan of $14.8 million for the Port-au-Prince Water supply, allowing only $3 million for 1994-95, of which only $400,000 was actually disbursed.

(snip)

Why are these funds reserved for the future? The most likely explanation is that the international donors and lenders want to delay these improvements until the Haitian government agree to their demands for privatization and other aspects of structural adjustment.

Transport: $24.1 million
Health: $14.5 million
Agriculture, the Environment, and Education: $11.9 million

Well, I don't see any expensive shoes, cars, yachts, or palaces in there. It looks like the portion of the money that was actually disbursed to Haiti was spent...on Haiti.


IN ADDITION, in 1998, USAID started going around the central government of Haiti, and giving money to various NGOs, local officials and private groups (like Guy Philippe's, no doubt).
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43a/222.html

(snip)

With its latest plan, USAID shows itself to be as meddling and political as the International Republican Institute (IRI), which several Haitian parliamentarians want expelled from Haiti for its brazen orchestration of 26 right-wing parties into a new opposition front (see Haiti Progres, Vol. 16, No. 8, May 13, 1998).

In any case, if Haiti's Foreign Ministry had an agency comparable to USAID, it would be illegal in the U.S., unless it were registered, tightly restricted, and monitored in its activities as an Agent of a Foreign Government.

(much more at link from 1998)

When Bush got into office, he cut off direct funding to the Haitian government. Since then, every penny of US aid has gone to opposition-affiliated NGOs and private organizations. In addition, the Bush administration has worked to prevent Haiti from receiving loans from other sources as well.

These are the facts.

[Judi Lynn]

26. Thanks for your first link, htuttle. Very interesting.

I want to confirm the info. in your second as being repeated in other places, as well. I've also read about a great deal of US funding going to candidates in the opposition, trying to push them through elections, like Marc Bazin:

In the 1990 elections in Haiti, the NED supported Marc Bazin providing a big fraction of his total US-supported campaign funds of $36 million. Despite this funding, he only obtained 12% of the vote. Marc Bazin had earlier been a World Bank official. He was seen by most Haitians as a "front man for military and business interests", and had been prime minister during military rule, for the presidential election. <3>
(snip)

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=National_Endowment_for_Democracy

[Just Me]

29. You are both noble warriors for democracy,...

,...I sincerely respect your strength, persistence and courage!!! And, I only WISH I could begin to express my gratitude.

[Judi Lynn]

30. JustMe, I've been reading YOUR posts a lot lately.

It's just great to be hearing from you. Glad to see your input on these threads.

I envy your ability to express yourself, and enjoy the heck outta your posts.



I can't imagine what kind of person would actually feel so out of touch with life that he/she would support right-wing reactionaries in Haiti and Venezuela.

You just wouldn't expect to see them on a Democratic message board.

[Just Me]

31. Thank you *smile*,...

,...and, I believe that the "possible" reason (of course, I am merely speculating) that a poster on this board would "support right-wing reactionaries" is because they are terribly confused, misinformed or still "asleep". I was pretty damned shocked when I pulled out of "the matrix" *smile*. But, I am adjusting and trying to be sensitive, perhaps even gentle to those who are resistent to "awakening".

[Mika]

33. Better get used to it

Awaken to this.. The Democratic party is made up of all kinds. The more you research US foreign policy, the more you'll see that US hegemony has a bipartisan stamp of approval.

[Duck90MPH]

36. support of right-wing reactionaries in Haiti and Venezuela

I sure would never support right-wing reactionaries in Haiti or Venezuela and would challenge anyone that did. Are there really posts here that support right-wing reactionaries in Haiti and Venezuela?

BTW, I don't consider someone that is critical of non-right-wing leaders in Haiti and Venezuela to be in support of right-wing reactionaries in Haiti and Venezuela. Is there a link to someone supporting right-wing reactionaries in Haiti and Venezuela here?

[Bandit]

27. Are you talking about Baby Doc because I know you aren't talking

about Aristide. If you are then I have to say to you maybe you should read a little instead of watching FOX news for your information. Aristide lived like a monk. No riches for that man. Never was never will be.

[Duck90MPH]

37. Excuse me but I don't watch "FOX news"

Are you really trying to say that Aristide did not have millions of dollars at his disposal?

Listen to what real Haiti citizens have to say...

http://www.wehaitians.com/why%20subsidize%20the%20rampant.html
"In the early morning of April 3rd 2000, prominent Haitian radio journalist and commentator, Jean Léopold Dominique, was brutally murdered in the courtyard of his Radio Haiti-Inter station. Dominique=s murder, in fact, occurred months after he questioned Aristide during a radio interview about hundreds of millions of dollars in aid that Haiti had received from the international community."

There is much much more out there if you want to look it up instead of making up crap about people watching "FOX news".

[Tinoire]

39. LMAO! Re-posting from a pro-Bush site & expecting to be taken seriously

You're going to have to do better than backing up your arguments with a web-site that is scandalized about the following:

George W. Bush burned to death in effigy by brutal dictator Jean-Bertrand Aristide - March 27, 2003


Demonstrators, about 1,000, from the National People's Party (PPN), whose leader is Benjamin Dupuy and a strong supporter of Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, burn to death President Bush in effigy in front of the U.S. Embassy and chant anti-U.S. slogans during a protest against the war in Iraq Thursday, March 27, 2003, in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. (AP Photo/Daniel Morel)



Haitian National Police protect demonstrators, about 1,000, of the National People's Party (PPN), whose leader is Benjamin Dupuy and a strong supporter of Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, during an antiwar demonstration where marchers shouted slogans like: 'George Bush and Tony Blair, criminals! George Bush - Terrorist! George Bush - Oil thief!' and pro-Aristide chants during an antiwar march in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, on Thursday, March 27, 2003. (AP Photo/Daniel Morel)



http://www.wehaitians.com/another%20criminal%20in%20charge%20of%20haiti%20top%20gang.html

Wehaitians.com, the scholarly journal of democracy and human rights

Wow. Yeah right. The web-site of a "Cambridge based political pressure group" site tailored for Free Republic & Bush sympathizers.

Hell you're better off watching Fox News in that case.

By the way, please keep Jean Dominique out of your propaganda. He was killed by Jean Tatoune, one of the same _Bush-backed rebels certain people are so eager to defend. You'd know that if you got your news from less Bush-loving sources.

Make sure you don't miss his article "Crush Haiti's Leftist Dictators". The gems from this "nonpartisan political pressure group" are too amusing.

[Duck90MPH]

41. You are entitled to your OPINION

Nothing on http://www.wehaitians.com/ could even be remotely considered pro-bush. And as I said; I don't do FOX news so please knock off the senseless attack.

The people of Haiti are a proud people and I respect their right and ability to create their OWN website to speak out against the injustice brought upon them. If their opinion of the ousted leader differs from yours then I can't help you.

What exactly do you see in the ousted leader that makes him shine like a beacon of hope for the people of Haiti?

[Tinoire]

43. You're kidding. You've simply got to be.

The people of Haiti? That is one Bush-supporting man's web-site. That is not the people of Haiti's web-site. I have been the the people of Haiti's web-sites which are in Frnch, Creole and English. They have nothing in common with what you saw at that man's site. Unlike him, most of us do not like Bush & are not scandalized by pictures of Bush being burnt in effigy, pictures beautifully posted to inflame the passions of racist Bush-loving Republicans. Why don't you research a little? The guys an economist ready to sell Haiti to the IMF which unfortunately most of us, most Haitians, do not think is a good thing.

The U.S. must impose a blanket of economic and political sanctions on Haiti. The U.S. must indict Aristide and Preval for drug trafficking. Only then will the dangerous dictators behave. Yves A. Isidor teaches economics at the University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth and is spokesperson for We Haitians United We Stand For Democracy, a Cambridge, MA-based nonpartisan political pressure group.
http://www.wehaitians.com/crush%20haiti's%20leftist%20dictators.html


Now as far as what Aristide has done... Raising the minimum wage so that the people's labor isn't exploited by US sweat-shops, schools, free universities, electricity, running water, real homes for the people, clinics, hospitals, homes for the elderly things they never had before and which are being destroyed right now under the watchful eyes of the US & French forces. I posted a thread in GD http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1202636&mesg_id=1202636 with pictures to the good he did and pictures of the tremendous support he had from the people until literally days before the US/France coup.

If you don't know these things, which ALL Haitians know, what the heck are you basing your opinion on besides Right-wing sites and talking points?

Come up with some talking points that line up with those of known democratic sites and you might be taken more credibly.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

44. the wbsite you quote - seems a self-promotion tool for a Boston resident..

...in case you're interested in changing your mind about its efficacy as a dependable source, read the "Profile" page...it seems not just self-promotional for M'sye Isidor, but downright megalomaniacal...

[seemslikeadream]

32. Govt Calls for Probe into Aristide Departure

BuaNews (Pretoria)

March 5, 2004
Posted to the web March 5, 2004

Richard Mantu
Pretoria

South Africa has joined the Caribbean Economic Community (CARICOM), in calling for a United Nations sanctioned probe into circumstances leading to the departure of ousted Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

Foreign Affairs Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma said if proven that Mr Aristide was "pushed out of office," the incident would have serious consequences for international law and democracy in the world.


"The suggestion that President Aristide may have been forced out of office, if true, will have serious consequences and ramifications for the respect of the rule of law and democracy the world over," said Dr Dlamini-Zuma

http://allafrica.com/stories/200403050182.html

[MidwestMomma]

35. Now CAR is offering Aristide permament asylum but they want money

See article at:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040304/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/aristide_exile_36

According to the article:

"Taking on the charges for the stay and protection of a person such as Aristide will take a lot of financial effort," he said. "I am convinced that the international community will also take this aspect into account."

I guess it's expensive to keep a guest like Aristide prisoner....did i say prisoner? I meant entertained. What was I thinking!

Also according to the article, Aristide is happy as a clam there. The climate reminds of him Haiti...:eyes:

About Aristide being a prisoner:

"Mbaye repeated denials of Aristide's claims that he is a prisoner in Bangui. Mbaye said Aristide has "a particular status, which requires him to remain more or less stationary."

Love that diplomatic phrasing, don't you? There's a lot of people down at the state pen that are required to remain stationary for 5-10 years too. Guess they're just people of 'a particular status'.

Finally, apparently CAR is bankrupt and is unable to pay it's civil servants who are owed 2 1/2 years pay. But guess what, on Thursday they all received one month's pay. But this has nothing to do with any pay off for taking Aristide according to the following:

"Central African Republic Finance Minister Jean-Pierre Le Bouder said the fresh payments are unrelated to any financial incentives from either France or the United States, who, together with the West African nation of Gabon, negotiated Aristide's arrival in the country."

Funny, don't recall anyone of accusing them of it but thanks for sharing. I believe him...NOT!

This whole situation smells. I hope the truth comes out but I'm not hopeful.

[Darranar]

40. Very interesting, thanks. n/t