Rep. Maxine Waters Says Aristide Is Being Held Like a Prisoner

[Say_What]

Rep. Maxine Waters discusses President Aristide's treatment in the Central African Republic and her grilling of Assistant Secretary of State Roger Noriega about the return to Haiti of the paramilitary leaders who led the 1994 coup.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/04/1554227

---

Also, CARICOM discovers that Antiquan official were not allowed on Aristide's plane--told that there were NO PASSENGERS on board!!

...He added that the Antiguan Government said that no state or airport officials were allowed to enter the plane, nor did anyone on the plane disembark.

"The declaration which was made by the operators of the plane disclosed that there were no passengers aboard. Whether that indicates that those who were on board were regarded not as passengers, but as cargo, is something which I leave for you to determine," Mr. Patterson said.

According to Prime Minister Patterson, Mr. Aristide has indicated that he should soon be allowed to move more freely, at which time he should also be able to make his own decision on a final destination.

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20040304/lead/lead2.html

[TankLV]

1. But, but, but.

according to some new posters on this board, we just can't take the word of Maxine!

I mean, bushco would NEVER lie!

I hate that crowd occupying OUR White House more with each passing moment.

AND THAT HATE AND ANGER IS MORE THAN JUSTIFIED!

[Zhade]

31. Not just new posters, either.

I've seen 1000+ posters either swallowing the propaganda, or pushing it themselves.

[Just Me]

39. Bushco has a history of Machiavellian deception,...

,...Rove LOVES Machiavellian tactics!!!

At which point do people finally get that the leadership in this country IS the cloak and dagger of true evil? People better stop clinging to blinders and earplugs. Otherwise, humanity is f*cked!!!

[gasperc]

2. kinda odd there has been a press conference or something?

tick tock

[Barkley]

3. Go Maxine!

You make me proud to be from California!

[Joanne98]

6. I love Maxine

you go girl

[mopinko]

4. i keep trying to imagine

a real coup, in say, canada, where we go in, and remove the head of state for his won safety - ridiculous premise #1- and instead of bring said head HERE- we shuffle him of to, say albania- ridiculous premise #2- and instead of having a big press conference, where said head thanks us profusely on all the networks, said head does not even get to talk on his cellphone- ridiculous premises go on and on.

btw, fresh air is on now, and they are talking about haiti, i think for the whole hour.

[Say_What]

5. Plenty more about the hearing on Democracy Now!

If folks can see this hearing on CSPAN, don't miss it. It's very revealing. I missed Scumwad Noriega but the witnesses after him were awesome--particulary Jeffrey Sachs who demanded Aristide's safety be guaranteed and that he be allowed to speak to the world.

Drip, drip, drip

http://www.democracynow.org/index.pl

[eablair3]

7. thanks for the info on Antigua

I hadn't seen where they lied to Antigua and wouldn't allow anyone on the plane in Antigua when Aristide was there. And, they filled out a "declaration" saying that no one was on the plane?

Another lie - and this one was in a declaration, so I guess they committed another crime by perjuring themselves, too.

I saw quite a bit of the commmittee hearing yesterday on the net on c-span3. It's probably available at c-span's site, if any are interested. I saw it yesterday, so I haven't looked there.

[eablair3]

9. I like that headline: CARICOM demanding inquiry into Haiti ouster

CARICOM demanding inquiry into Haiti ouster

published: Thursday | March 4, 2004


THE 15-NATION CARICOM bloc yesterday called for an international inquiry into the ouster of Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, and is looking to "a body such as the United Nations" to institute the probe.

The call came at the end of a two-day emergency meeting of CARICOM Heads of Government in Kingston, at which the leaders also agreed to provide humanitarian assistance to the Community's politically unstable member-state.

"Despite what we have heard in public and despite what we have learnt in private we simply say that the situation calls for an investigation of what transpired," Prime Minister P.J. Patterson, CARICOM chairman, told journalists at a Jamaica House press briefing.

At the same time, Mr. Patterson reiterated that the Heads of Government have agreed that they are not prepared to deliberate with "thugs and anarchists" parading as a new Haitian Government.

snip

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20040304/lead/lead2.html

[Say_What]

10. You'll like this one too... South Africa wants Aristide's exit probed

<clips>

Pretoria - South Africa on Thursday called for a probe into the circumstances leading to the exit of ousted Haitian leader Jean-Bertrand Aristide, saying it would be a serious breach of international law if it was proved that he had been forced to quit.

"The suggestion that President Aristide may have been forced out of office, if true, will have serious consequences and ramifications for the respect of the rule of law and democracy the world over," foreign minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma said in a statement.

"The international community must not be seen to be wavering in its commitment to democracy and the respect for the rule of law, particularly in the face of anti-democratic forces.

"In this regard, we join in the call for an investigation under the auspices of the UN to clarify these circumstances leading to the departure of President Aristide," she said.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1493587,00.html

[eablair3]

14. yes, I like it -- South Africa also calling for investigation, probe

the more the better, ..... I'd like to see the whole world conduct and investigation or probe.

SA wants Aristide's exit probed

04/03/2004 18:52 - (SA)

Pretoria - South Africa on Thursday called for a probe into the circumstances leading to the exit of ousted Haitian leader Jean-Bertrand Aristide, saying it would be a serious breach of international law if it was proved that he had been forced to quit.

"The suggestion that President Aristide may have been forced out of office, if true, will have serious consequences and ramifications for the respect of the rule of law and democracy the world over," foreign minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma said in a statement.

"The international community must not be seen to be wavering in its commitment to democracy and the respect for the rule of law, particularly in the face of anti-democratic forces.

snip



I like it.

[Say_What]

20. Reuters just picked it up....

<clips>

S.Africa calls for probe into Aristide's exile

..."The international community must not be seen to be wavering in its commitment to democracy and the respect for the rule of law, particularly in the face of anti-democratic forces," said a statement issued by Foreign Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma on Wednesday.

"In this regard, we join in the call for an investigation under the auspices of the United Nations to clarify these circumstances leading to the departure of President Aristide," it said.

The Caribbean Community on Wednesday called for an international inquiry into Aristide's exile and said it would not contribute troops to a multinational peacekeeping force.

The statement by Dlamini-Zuma, who is on an official visit to India, also accused the United Nations of not responding quickly to pleas for help by Aristide as his government faced a rebel onslaught weeks before he left.

"The slow response of the UN Security Council to pleas for assistance by the government of Haiti, however, remains a matter of serious concern," the statement said.

<http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=469801§ion=news>

[Say_What]

11. Refused to let Antigua personnel board Aristide's plane --said no passenge

...He added that the Antiguan Government said that no state or airport officials were allowed to enter the plane, nor did anyone on the plane disembark.

"The declaration which was made by the operators of the plane disclosed that there were no passengers aboard. Whether that indicates that those who were on board were regarded not as passengers, but as cargo, is something which I leave for you to determine," Mr. Patterson said...

[eablair3]

15. this was discussed on another thread too

I guess perhaps Antigua would release the declaration, and everyone could see the name of who signed it.

[Fridays Child]

8. Maxine Waters and Charlie Rangel are heroes.

When will this country wake up and realize that the so-called neoconservatives want nothing more than to utterly and permanently subjugate every person of every nationality, whose skin color is not fair, whose religion is not Christianity, whose sexual orientation is not straight, or whose lineage or history does not, otherwise, resemble their own.

They revile civil rights law, the US Constitution, the UN, and every other entity that stands for equality and justice for all people. And, until we recognize this, we will ALL be as vulnerable to extermination as were the Jews of WWII Warsaw.

[mopinko]

12. wbez worldview just played tape of this hearing

holy cow, talk about ripping a new one. asking- are they going to protect the successor- yes- but you didn't protect aristide? no
just great - go maxine!

http://wbez.org/audio_library/worldview_ra1.asp

this is the library for the show, but i do not know who soon today's show will be posted.

[htuttle]

13. They emphasized a number of good points in that hearing...

Did you provide protection for Pres. Kharzai in Afghanistan? Yes.
Are you providing protection for Boniface Alexandre? Yes.

Did you ever ask Liberian Pres. Charles Taylor to resign? No.

They went over the fact that of the supposed $850 million sent to Haiti recently (the funds that Noriega is quoted as saying Aristide 'frittered away'), NONE of it was sent to the government. All of it was sent to NGOs and private organizations (aka., the 'opposition').

The Democrats on the committee also demanded an investigation into the activities of the International Republican Institute and the NED.

Lots of interesting information in that hearing!

[mopinko]

30. more on hearing

the bit that wbez played is part of the house hearings yesterday. the full 4+ hours is available from c-span-

here is a link to the video
illegal codeplayClip('rtsp://video.c-span.org/15days/e030304_house.rm')

hope that works.

[yellowcanine]

16. After the missing WMDs, Smirk & CO. have zero credibility on this.

I don't know if Aristide was forced out by the U.S. or not but I sure am not going to take Colin Powell's word on it. Ain't karma a bitch?

[windansea]

17. Costa Rica says it offered Aristide asylum

but president opted for Africa


SAN JOSE, Costa Rica – Costa Rica offered to provide temporary political asylum to Haitian leader Jean Bertrand Aristide but the ousted president decided to go to Africa instead, Security Secretary Rogelio Ramos said Sunday.

Costa Rica was the second country to publicly indicate it would grant Aristide asylum. Earlier Sunday, Panamanian President Mireya Moscoso said she would consider it, but hadn't been asked.

"We received various calls Sunday morning on behalf of many countries that were looking for a resolution to the crisis in Haiti in which they suggested to us that we grant asylum," Ramos told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.

After discussing the matter with Costa Rican President Abel Pacheco, who is out of the country, Ramos decided to offer Aristide safe haven here.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20040229-1419-aristideexile.html

[Say_What]

18. Based on CARICOMs statement, I find this hard to believe

<clips>

...He noted, however, that Mr. Aristide disclosed that he had no knowledge of where he was being taken during his trip into exile. In particular, he said, Mr. Aristide told the CARICOM leaders he was unaware that he was in Antigua during a brief 'technical' stop before continuing on to the Central African Republic.

This account contradicts reports that the Haitian leader had contacted officials while on that island.

"We have been unable to identify any such person to whom he may have spoken," Mr. Patterson said.

He added that the Antiguan Government said that no state or airport officials were allowed to enter the plane, nor did anyone on the plane disembark.

"The declaration which was made by the operators of the plane disclosed that there were no passengers aboard. Whether that indicates that those who were on board were regarded not as passengers, but as cargo, is something which I leave for you to determine," Mr. Patterson said.

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20040304/lead/lead2.html

[windansea]

19. so Ramos (costa rica) just made this up??

the plot thickens

[Say_What]

21. Noriega made it up...

on edit: Reading CARICOMs statement, Aristide was not in touch with anyone.

[windansea]

22. their statement only says that about Antigua

This account contradicts reports that the Haitian leader had contacted officials while on that island.

"We have been unable to identify any such person to whom he may have spoken," Mr. Patterson said.

artcle I posted sez

"We received various calls Sunday morning on behalf of many countries that were looking for a resolution to the crisis in Haiti in which they suggested to us that we grant asylum," Ramos told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.

But Ramos said he was notified later that Aristide had decided to go to Africa. He said he did not know which country the former president had chosen.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20040229-1419-aristideexile.html

[Say_What]

25. ..."notified by U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell that Aristide"...

Nothing in your link indicates that Aristide called any of these countries. It does say, however, that the State Department called them.

Like I said, more Powell/REICH/Noriega LIES so typical of the Bush junta.

From your link:

...Officials in the Caribbean nation of Antigua said Aristide's jet refueled on the island and was en route to South Africa. But authorities in Johannesburg said there had been no recent contact with Aristide nor an offer of asylum.

Moscoso said that Panamanian officials were notified by U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell that Aristide was looking for asylum in Africa.

But Ramos said he was notified later that Aristide had decided to go to Africa. He said he did not know which country the former president had chosen.

[Zhade]

33. Yep, that seals it. If Powell stated one thing, the opposite is true.

Powell is a lying traitor to the American people. Of course he lied about this.

[windansea]

37. I never said Aristade had asked for it

the link merely states several countries called and did ask, and that Ramos was later notified that Aristade had declined. Whether this is true or not I have no idea.

I think everyone knows how to read english here.

[Tinoire]

36. Maybe bolding the words will help

"We received various calls Sunday morning on behalf of many countries that were looking for a resolution to the crisis in Haiti in which they suggested to us that we grant asylum,"


Unless you're suggesting that Aristide is a "they" or that he was calling "on behalf" of various countries :shrug:

[windansea]

38. I never suggested anything...see post #37

I have no idea if Aristide was informed of Costa Rica's offer and declined it, merely posting the article. If he was, I wonder why he would decline, personally I'd prefer Costa Rica over CAR...

:shrug:

[daleo]

23. Take note of a couple of things in this article

"But Ramos said he was notified later that Aristide had decided to go to Africa. He said he did not know which country the former president had chosen." - he does not claim to have heard this from Aristide himself.

"Moscoso said that Panamanian officials were notified by U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell that Aristide was looking for asylum in Africa." - he does not claim to have heard this from Aristide himself, but rather, from the world-famous international liar Colin Powell.

This is how Bushco and its cronies lie - very carefully. You must parse their sentences very carefully.

[Say_What]

28. Right! and the CARICOM statement blows those LIES apart

<clips>

...Accompanied by other regional leaders, the CARICOM chairman was, however, unwilling to reveal many details about his conversations with President Aristide who is now in Africa.

He noted, however, that Mr. Aristide disclosed that he had no knowledge of where he was being taken during his trip into exile. In particular, he said, Mr. Aristide told the CARICOM leaders he was unaware that he was in Antigua during a brief 'technical' stop before continuing on to the Central African Republic.

This account contradicts reports that the Haitian leader had contacted officials while on that island.

"We have been unable to identify any such person to whom he may have spoken," Mr. Patterson said.

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20040304/lead/lead2.html

[DoYouEverWonder]

26. Why didn't the US give him asylum?

Why is Aristide being treated like a criminal?

Especially, when you find out that most of Baby Docs buddies have been living in the US since Aristide was returned to power in 1993.

[worldgonekrazy]

40. This is the key question

The Bush Administration doesn't deny intervening. They deny that they FORCED Aristide to leave. So if they were just, say, helping out Aristide, why wouldn't they take him to the U.S.? Or at least offer it?

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. Especially since his two children are here

His wife's parents live here and the children left Haiti a few days before Aristide got his free ride to Africa.

[seemslikeadream]

24. This testimony by Maxine is a must see

Starting at 4:28:20
Political Crisis in Haiti Committee Hearing
www.c-span.org

[Say_What]

27. Repeat from yesterday? If not can you fill us in?

thanks.

[seemslikeadream]

29. I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear

its the video of yesterdays testimony. Since it was 4:46 long I thought I'd post the exact start of her questioning of the second panel.

Did you see this?
Congressional Black Caucus's Ties to Aristide Questioned


you had to know that something like this was coming.
______________

Congressional Black Caucus's Ties to Aristide Questioned
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Morning Editor
March 04, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - A conservative black pastor says the White House and the State Department should investigate the Congressional Black Caucus's relationship with exiled Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

What do Congressional Black Caucus members have to gain by keeping Aristide in power? asked the Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson. Do CBC members, their family, or friends have business interests in Haiti, he wondered.

"These questions must be answered. We need to get to the truth about what has been going on," said Peterson, who heads a group called Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny. (Peterson, who supports various conservative causes, is out with a new book called SCAM: How the Black Leadership Exploits Black America.)

Peterson said he finds it "disturbing" that the Congressional Black Caucus is backing "a corrupt and brutal man like Aristide."

snip

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C2...

[Say_What]

32. I saw that and was about to post it. I was searching the web for info

NewsMax and the right-wing-wackos love this guy! An attempt to discredit the Black Caucus and make this growing coup problem go away. I tried to get his website but it seems to be down www.bondinfo.org

[Dover]

34. Here's how to find the video of the hearings on C-Span

Audio/video archives: Go to the URL (given below). Scroll down the Latest Video column and click on 'more video'. When that page comes up, scroll down to

House Hearing on Haiti Situation
Asst. Sec. of State Roger Noriega & others testify before a House International Relations Subcmte. hearing on the political situation in Haiti.

http://www.c-span.org

If you are in a hurry and want to cut to the quick, fast forward to about 4:28 to Maxine Water's statements.

[Say_What]

35. Here's a link to the page, scroll to bottom "House Hearing on Haiti Situat

This is really a not-to-be missed hearing. Especially good is Jeffrey Sachs in the last couple of hours.

The site is done in frames--this ought to work.

http://www.c-span.org/videoarchives.asp?CatCodePairs=,