Blair Tells Congress Iraq War Justified (Even if no WMD's are found)

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20030717/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_blair

WASHINGTON - British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) told Congress Thursday he believes "with every fiber of instinct and conviction" that the U.S. and British led war on Iraq (news - web sites) was justified — and that history will forgive them if weapons allegations used as justification were wrong.

"We promised Iraq democratic government. We will deliver it," he said.

In prepared remarks for an address to a joint House-Senate meeting, the prime minister suggested that history will forgive the toppling of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s government even if it turns out that Blair and President Bush (news - web sites) were wrong about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.

To have hesitated "in the face of this menace when we should have given leadership ... that is something that history will not forgive," Blair said.

more

[jos]

1. Poodle boy

can bark all he want. But if there were no WMD, what was the meance. He's a liar.

:spank:

[saigon68]

34. POODLE LAPDOG OF THE CHIMP

Step right up folks come and see the little LAP DOG lick the back of his masters hand.

Come see the little POODLE squirm as he tries to tell the parents of those soldiers he sent off to be killed, that they died for British Petroleum, Brown and Root and Haliburton.

Come watch POODLE turn IRAQ-NAM into a wonderful place with love, flowers and music from the sixties.

[dfong63]

2. what a complete asshole

still can't admit he was wrong, and still trying to smear those who were right all along.

[chiburb]

5. Sounds like he IS admitting...

They were wrong about WMD, but spinning it via the latest RNC talking point: that Saddam was a bad, bad man and had to be removed.
It won't help him at home, or Bush here.

[IndianaGreen]

11. Blair is admitting that there are no WMD in Iraq, and never were

Since Bush and Blair violated international law when they invaded Iraq, will this be their defense when they are tried for war crimes, crimes against peace, and crimes against humanity?

[chiburb]

15. Yep. Too bad it won't work. n/t

.

[lkinsale]

3. Let history forgive them. I don't.

...and that history will forgive them if weapons allegations used as justification were wrong.

IF they were wrong? Pre-emptive war, and maybe they were wrong.

[Jack Rabbit]

4. Jack Rabbit says war crimes trials are justified for the Boy and his Dog

It's the least we can do to mass murderers who initiate a war justified by nothing but lies.

[FubarFly]

10. That'll be his consolation while sitting in the Hague

It doesn't matter if you think the war was justified or not.

It matters that you lied about your reasons for going to war.

You will have to take responsiblity for your actions, regardless.

A crime once committed, even with the "best" intentions, is still a crime.


Bye Tony. :hi:

[ewagner]

6. This is clever

In the old days of politics we used to call this technique "innoculation": Giving a small, hypothetical dose of the bad news before it actually becomes reality.

I listened to a lot of the speech. If Tony was talking ONLY about Al Queda and Osama Bin Laden, it would have been a masterpiece. But he made the inference...not directly...that Iraq = Osam = Sept 11. He has further linked Syria (again by inference to terrorism although the only true link is to Hamas (just as was Saddam)Again, all terrorists = Osama = Sept 11. ( Hamas wasn't on the terrorism list until last year..a lot of people questioned why they weren't)

He said history would forgive us for mistakes but not for sitting still and letting terrorism triumph. (paraphrased) Is that sorta like saying "my bad"?

I don''t know maybe this guy believes it.

[zekeson]

19. 10 minutes later he is still

making those connections. Perhaps history will forgive him the invasion, but will history forgive him the lies he told in this speech?

Saddam did NOT have a role in 9-11, at least not with ANY shred of evidence they (the * White House and the Brit gov) have presented. So, its time for him to move on, their is a military tribunal that has his name on it...

[JohnOneillsMemory]

7. Americans love noble lying platitudes in a British accent.

Dubya should get a speech coach to shake that JR Ewing vibe..."This is Alastair Cook saying, you're all under arrest!"

[homelandpunk]

35. his "lofty eloquence" is MEANT to inspire obedience

NOT from the american people, but Congress and Senate....THEY are the ones who glaze over with acceptace of the rigtheous good fight blah blah. And they do. It is sheer madness to see how easy powerful men go gaga and cast off skepticism in the face of pretty words (with a british accent). I am convinced this is why Blair is here at this point in time. Ahb-solootlee (british accent).

[King_Crimson]

8. I'm so sick of this little chickenshit bastard...

I could scream! I can't stand listening to this shit any longer...there it's shut off. I'm sure he'll ratchet up the rhetoric in favor of Numbnuts next. Glad I turned it off!

[diplomats]

9. Talk about moving the goalposts

The justification for the war was WMDs and the assertion that Saddam was an immediate threat to us and the whole region. It was not to bring democracy to Iraq. Talk about revisionist history!

[Lexingtonian]

12. more 'faith-based' crap

It's like watching a con artist convention.

[hang a left]

13. Sorry Fi Fi

Not gonna fly

[JohnOneillsMemory]

14. Damn. Tony's said "we must go beyond Kyoto." He tweeked Bush!

He told a little joke about a European leader telling Dubya that the ecolological solution in the US was to double the taxes on gasoline which made Dubya make an 'are you kidding me?' face. Big congressional laughs, then Tony says that climate change will have enormous consequences for all so "we must go beyond Kyoto". Shee-it, he ain't all wrong...

[chiburb]

17. Too little, too late.

Unless he wants cleaner air on Devil's Island.

[drscm]

18. But I would just like us to start with Kyoto... eom

eom

[neuvocat]

16. History will not forgive you, Blair!

The blood of our american soldiers is upon your hands.

[AP]

20. If Iraq does become a democracy...

...and is better able to stand up against American tyranny and imperialism, and develops a wealthy middle class, and is able to retain more of it's oil wealth, are you people really saying that's a bad thing?

Obviously there a three scenarios for Iraq:

(1) No US invasion. Sadaam stays in power. He's a murderous thug, and all the wealth of the nation flows to himself and his cronies.

(2) Imperialist US invades. Bush is a murderous thug. All the wealth of the nation flows to Bush cronies.

(3) America gets bamboozled. Somehow, America pays the cost of ousting Hussein. Out of it comes real democracy and autonomy for Iraq. Wealth flows inward. The people of Iraq are better off.

Doesn't (3) sound like a nice option? Wouldn't it be nice if that's where this thing ends up?

[Beetwasher]

22. It would be great too if there was a magic fairy land w/ gum drop trees

and lakes of ambrosia, unfortunately, the only way #3 is gonna happen is if this admin. isn't running things. Only someone with integrity can make #3 happen working with the international community...That ain't these bunch of criminal thugs, so you're only left with #2 and a guerrilla war and lot's of dead US soldiers and Iraqi's and an empty US treasury...

[AP]

24. This is why Dems/Labour have to get smart...

...and keep Blair in power, and do what it takes to get a Dem elected in 2004.

You better believe that Blair wants Bush to lose. If Blair were not in Iraq at all, the US would be totally calling the shots, and restricting the media, and preventing the truth from coming out. If the Tories were running the show in the UK, they'd be trying to make Bush look good by turning the other way. Blair is not letting that happen.

[leesa]

41. Oh Please. Blair betrayed his country and he needs to go

He is doing NOTHING noble so stop pretending he is

[SeattleDem]

25. this month's Harpers Index

you know that page of interesting tidbits and facts?

there's one this month:

Number of US lead interventions to bring democracy to another nation in the 20th century: 14
Number of new democracies established in those nations: 4

looks like history shows us as being pretty bad at establishing new democracies, huh?

[NNN0LHI]

27. "If Iraq does become a democracy..."? Nice start, huh?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030716/pl_afp/iraq_us_bremer&cid=1521&ncid=1480

US administration reaches out to communists, low-paid Iraqis

BAGHDAD (AFP) - Promoting communists, doubling the salaries of the low-paid and banning the death penalty might not sound like the work of a US Republican administration, but then welcome to topsy-turvy post-war Iraq (news - web sites).

Among the more surprising choices made by the top US overseer in Iraq, Paul Bremer, known for his neo-conservative leanings, was to allow communist Hamid Majid Mussa to sit on Iraq's new Governing Council.

"He has two main concerns: preventing extremists taking the key positions among the Shiites and keeping the economy going," explained one of the international advisors involved in the selection process.

"He hesitated at first but became convinced that the communists could prove a counterweight to the imams," he added, asking not to be named.

Iraqi Communist Party official Numan Suhayel explains how the selection was made: "The Americans and the British sent a delegation to see us and then Hamid Majid met personally with Paul Bremer," he says.

more

[NNN0LHI]

29. What do you think about this AP? n/t

[TEXASYANKEE]

28. No question.

There's no question that #3 is the option that most people wanted and still want. However, #3 arguably could have been achieved by peaceful means. Why didn't Bush let the UN and weapons inspectors do their job? If he had, and the WI came back after a full investigation and said that there were, in fact, no WMD and that Iraq did not pose a threat to the world, what would have happened? At that point, if "democracy in Iraq" was the motivating factor, going to war would have been tabled. Instead, pressure from the world community could have been made to bear on Saddam. We needed to go into Iraq with the UN as our ally. Instead we're in a quagmire with no friends in sight.

But I'm rambling. Remember, "democracy in Iraq" was never one of the main reasons Bush and cronies gave for attacking Iraq.

[goobergunch]

21. Here's my attempt at a transcript

Transcript of Speech to Joint Session of Congress
made by the Right Honorable Tony Blair, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

<applause>

Mr. BLAIR: Thank you. Mr. Speaker Mr. VP Members of Congres Im deeply touched by that warm and generous welcome more than I'm used to quite frankly

applause
let me begin by thanking you quite sincerely by voting to give me the CGM but we mknow that the real heros are teh miliatry and we should show them that they didn't die in vain but future generation can live in peace, prosperity and hope through their sac

a

Let me express gratitutde to * since 9/11 changed world we have been allies/friends thank you Mr. * for your leadership

applause

Mr. Speaker sir my thrill on recieving this award was limited by the first award was given to GWash for getting Britian

l

brit burned congress library in 1814...it's late, but sorry

laughter

actually, my son was studying Am War of Ind...you know Lord North, the PM that lost America...mistakes you make, you won't make that bad

this world: 9/11 not isolated, but a prologue...Iraq and other strugles will be onthis statge America was not mi9sunderstood...history no exampel...ideology, conquest over continent leaders openly acknowledge outcome...immediate threat not between conflict between powerful nations because too much to lose, tourism, Russia China India see they are on road to future...all nations w/ freedom will defend but don't trample on freedom of others...together as never before-vulnerable, but opportunity...threat comes because shadow in darkenss in other part of world...1/3 lives in poverty, dicttaionrshyips...tyranny ahs arrisen.....virus: tyrannism whose inflicting harm enlarged by tech and not constrained...fought not only by armies, as we are taught humility despite hower...ultimate weapon not guns, but beliefs

applause (about time...my fingers are tired)

There is a list although we love freedom others don't but freedom (w values) are ...... MCs, ours are not western values, but universal values of the human spirit

applause

and anywhere, anytime ord people are given chance to choose, choice is same...freedom not tyranny, not secret police...last line of defense and first line of attack...we must unify around idea of liberty as terrorists try to divide world through hate

applause

we must find the strength to fight for idea and compassion to make universal Lincoln quote sense of justice that makes moral ? of liberty in cases when sec is direct threat, arms, in others, reason, inall casses to same end, that freedom is for all...only clear path instrugall

applause

First we msut exp danger...danger is disorder, weich can spread like can.........weapon is choas, purpose is not destruction, but its rxn..society difined by differences...gives exmaples (soorry) risk is terrorism and riskisn't fanciple...IRAQ GAVE HAVE N TO TERRORISTS...states are helping peoplsed thgat are rteligious fanactices...some are trying to get nukes...some wsll to highest bideer...N Korea lest people starve while devolopieng nudkes and exporting...not fantasy, but 21st century reality that confronts us now

applause

can we be sure that terror and WMD wil join together? If we are wrong, we will have destroyted.,.,human rights excuse...if critics wrong and we don't act, we have hesitativ in face opf menace, unforgivable by history

applause (Coleman :puke: )


Precisely due to knew threat, dturns upsideonw concept, crosses frontiers...just as sec redifined, diplomacy redifined...no more dange stheriy than Americas powere should bve balanced...made sence in 19th century and cold war, but anachronism to be discarded and dangerous because partniership needed...common thread

applause (Kennedy grudgijng(
\
I believe that alliance must startt between America and Europe-> others will work with us, else michieff...debate in europe open...many Euro nations showed approval, but even others approved Res. 1483...german soldiers in Afge, french in Congo...shou7ld not minimize or be confounded by diff...why Brit at ctr of Europe? we are part of Eurp, and want to be...also part of changing Europe...one potential for weakness...spent 1000 years killing each otehre...landscape based on compromise, good exc ept re illusiojn, terroristm cannot be compromised

applause

Europe has the strength...formi polit achievement...think of reaching out even to Turkey->vastly different....real pont this: Euro at point of transformation...new members whose scars are recent will transfrom because freedeom relationship is new...our allies and yours...support transatlantic alliance and non-superstate Europe

applause (standing)

To be serious partmer, Euro must destroy anti_Americansim and America must show based on persuation, not command

applause

then other great and small nations will gather around in one place and our undergstatnidgin will become theirs and UN SC should be reformed...new internationsl regime on WMD prolif

ap

we need to say clearly to UN members if you abuse human rights in UN Charter violation, you will lose priveliges

standing applause

I agree it is not a coalition that det mission but prefer coalition and alone on ly if have to winnning warnot easier, but peace is

applause

we have to win both, and you have extro record...you helped Japan, Germany, Europe...resp dosn't end w/ military victory

applause

finishing fighting isn/t finishing job...we need to get ?? Kabul

applause

eradicate poppy depedence who destroys Brit lives...we promised Iraq Dem gov't and will deliver it.

standing applause

promice chance to use oil for benefit of citiazen and will stay w/ them until job done

applause

and then reflect on theis how hollow would imperialist charges be when nations charged from horror to democratcy...becones of calm and how risible will be calima of war on muslims when nations are free muslims, not regimes

standing applause

it would be most richly advert when we removed Taliban and Saddam...not imperailism, but liberation...why can they even mount an argument in Muslim world that it isnt'...I wont to be plain...this terror wont be defeated w/out I/P peace

applause

here it is thart poisin incubated...case for P state and destruction of evil and translate into E v. W...we must not compromise security of Israel

standing applause

the state of I should gbe recognized by all Arab world and propoganda anti-Jewish must c4ease



you can't teach people hate and ask for peace but can't get peace w/out oaccording dignity

app

innocent israelis, palestin, suffer...ending of Saddam regime must be start of new thing...Syria et al must realize that friendship only fofered if they refject malic and whole region haelped toi democratcy and P state created side by side w/ Israel in peace

applause

what * is doing in ME is tough but right...let me thank him and Clinton and Congress for attempts to bring peace to N. Ireland

standing applause

one thing I learned about peache process is that theyre afrustrating, but better than nothing

app

why ahd a resolution of P widely welcomed? It shows justice, showed w/ passage of teh HIV/AIDS bill which was rdconginaze across world...must remove Afro poverty with as much ferver as re terrorism

standing applasuse

In Mex in sep, world should unite and give free trade rund...im' for free trade because we can't say bre free, but we ewon't seell tu goodss

applause

and it has prospered, and must be environmentally sunstainable

app

the Euro PM told * to double Amer Gas Tax

scattered app

* gave "most eloquent look" reminding of first New Labor PM in 1913...story...prohibition...replied saying electorla benefits not discernable...we need to go beyond Kyoto thru S/T and unchecked, forces will hinder econ of all nations and show world that we wlil step to these challenges.

standing applause

MCs, if this seems a long way from terror therat...we can't protect security w/out heart being one...America must listen as well as lead...don';t ever appologize for values

standing applause

tell world why proud of US and tell when anthem starts all Americans all get to our feet...NY cab driver joke...tell why Americans all stand up proudly because it means being free, not because of gov't official (yeah right)

standing applause

As GB nows, all power seems invinciple, gut is transient...what you can give to world is light of liberty...that' s what struggle is about...not fighting for American world/Xtianity, but for all religions, fighting for right of humankind to be free to raise family in love, hope, free to earn liveing, free not to bend ne to enay one...free to be you so long as not impaired...battle worth fighting...it's hard for America...guy in NV/ID saying why us? answer: destiny put us here and task is ours to do

standing applause

and our job-my nation that watch you grow that fighgts alongised you is to bet here w/you you will not be alone...we'll be w/ you

standing applause

we will be w/ you in fight for liberty and if spirit is right and courage firm , world will be with you

standing applause

---

My fingers are now officially tired out...sorry for the spelling and grammar errors, but Blair talks really fast.

[FubarFly]

40. Thanks for the transcript.

Impressive. :-)

[NYC]

42. Gooberbunch, thank you very much for typing that.

I know that Blair talks fast. You did an excellent job of keeping up. Thank you. That was very generous of you.

[MostlyBlackCat2]

23. So now we can just BOMB anybody

who's government doesn't fit our needs? Palestine. Syria. N.Korea. China. Iran. any number of small south american countries. nice to know we've just tossed out the entire rulebook on war now.

[scisyhp]

26. If the war was justified regardless of WMDs,

why not try and make this case before actually going to war?
Why mount all the WMD lies?
Because it wasn't "justified" at all. Because there was no way any
reasonable person could be convinced of the "justness" without
them lying about their reasons.
Even with WMDs all over Iraq, this war would still be illegal and
unjustifiable.

[tinnypriv]

31. I like this quote:

"We don't know that Iraqis were calling out to be invaded, but if that was the goal, what was the point of all the lying? What you are saying is that Tony Blair, George Bush, Colin Powell and the rest are fanatic liars - they were pretending until the last minute that the goal was to get rid of weapons of mass destruction. If the goal was to liberate the Iraqi people, why not say so? Why the lies?" (Chomsky, Radio Netherlands, May 2003)

[janx]

30. BLAIR MUST HAVE BEEN IN ON THIS FROM THE START.

I used to doubt that, but either he was or he is being incredibly stupid now.

[IndianaGreen]

36. According to former Blair's cabinet minister Claire Short

Bush told Blair last summer that he was going to invade Iraq and asked Tony if he would go along, which Blair agreed to do. The UN was a good cop-bad cop charade used by Bush and Blair in order to mislead people into thinking that war could be avoided and to give Rumsfeld time for the troop buildup.

Unfortunately for Bush and Blair, Saddam allowed the UN weapon inspectors inside Iraq (which they did not expect) so their ruse was exposed for what it was.

[Mandate My Ass]

32. It's "unanimous" that it's a good thing that we got rid of Saddam

Of all the lying, spinning and empty platitudes of TB's speech, that was the most sickening, IMHO. He said something along the lines of "there were differences of opinion about the legitimacy before the war, but it's unanimous that getting rid of Saddam was a great benefit."

What a putrid and sleazy attempt to justify this outrage after being caught red handed in the web of lies he and Bush spun to attack a defenseless country. And ummm, Tony, where the f**k is he? Oh that's right, he's busy making audiotapes urging his people to engage in a holy war against the infidel invaders.

[Jack Rabbit]

38. Very good post, ma'am

They may as well harp on Saddam. It is the only thing on which they told the truth; certainly, the only thing that those of us protesting ahead of the war agreed with the Boy and his Dog about was that Saddam was a bloody tyrant.

Unfortunately, that does not by itself justfy the war or even make it a wise move. Saddam wasn't the only brutal dictator on earth. If we were to start removing them one by one and leave an occupation force behind, it would leave our military spread very thin. The Iraq invasion by itself has placed a great strain on US capabilities.

Also, the fact that Saddam was a tyrant doesn't change the fact that the war is colonial piracy, not a liberation. Bush had his troops secure the oil fields and the oil minstry and let everything else rot. There is little water and power and the streets are not safe. Bush doesn't give a jot for the Iraqi people. They'll be liberated when they liberate themselves of Bush.

Okay, the world need no longer fear Saddam. Fine and well. He wasn'was nothing more than a paper tiger, anyway. Now the world must fear a bloody tyrant who is much more dangerous: Bush.

[Mandate My Ass]

43. "They'll be liberated when they liberate themselves of Bush."

Truer words were never spoken, Jack Rabbit. I fear the actions of the "coalition" have done something that Saddam could not have pulled off even in his wildest dreams--conferred legitimacy on his lunacy and made him a sympathetic figure to the rest of the Arab world.

[ichiro99]

33. The cretin-like Ray Stevens of Alaska ...

was anxious to finish up business on C-SPAN2, didn't want to miss a moment of the Great Man's visitation. Adamant that the sainted Robert Byrd sit down (as usual) and shut up (as always), his wasted and small demeanor resembled that of some whithered fly intent on menacing the powerful racehorse. Pathetic.

[young_at_heart]

37. Why did Blair do all the talking?

Tony can be quite eloquent....he's just "darn good"! Try to picture Bush uttering the same words as Tony....will never happen. It sure would be nice to have a president capable of speaking extemporaneously! (Especially about something as important as war).

[Jack Rabbit]

44. Blair is a much more eloquent liar

That is why he did all the talking.

Perhaps the Boy should allow the Dog to do all the talking when they're on the docket together in The Hague.

[NYC]

39. Blair promised Iraq democracy? He promised us WMD.

His promises don't seem to be worth much.

"We promised Iraq democratic government. We will deliver it," he said.

[T_i_B]

45. As a general rule

You can tell when Blair's lying as that's when you can see his lips moving.

[tlb]

46. Tony Blair comes out in support of Tom Daschle.

" The search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq should continue, but coalition forces don't need to find them to justify the war against Saddam Hussein.

That's the take of U.S. Sen. Tom Daschle, D-S.D.

"Regime change was a legitimate goal, it was accomplished and I think that's laudable in and of its own right,'' Daschle said Thursday.

''In 21 days we eliminated somebody who for 20 years has repressed and tortured his own people and posed a serious risk not only to his country, but to countries all over the world, including the United States,'' he added."

http://www.aberdeennews.com/mld/americannews/news/local/5768671.htm

-----

I hope Senator Daschle remembers to send Tony a nice thank you note.