Zell Miller Endorses Bush (cross-forum dupe)

[goobergunch]

The Democratic (sic) senator from Georgia comes out swinging for the president.

by Fred Barnes
10/29/2003 3:25:00 PM

SENATOR ZELL MILLER OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will vote for President Bush in 2004."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/309nqnas.asp

EDIT: That link isn't working anymore, but the story is shown on their front page: http://www.weeklystandard.com/

FURTHER EDIT: Never mind, it's working again.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Skinner]

1. Fuck that guy.

Utter bullshit.

[0007]

9. I'll second that!

I sure don't understand those Georgia folks.

What is a Georgia Baptist?

[benfranklin1776]

23. I'll third that.

Benedict Arnold, Judas piece of refuse. So Zell baby when do you get your seat on Carlyle? Hope you got full value for your raisin shriveled soul.

[VolcanoJen]

105. Here's a fourth.

Useless fucker.

Didn't Tom "Viper" Skeritt play him in last night's "The West Wing"?

[Flaming Meaux]

131. Jimmy Carter is a Georgia Baptist.

Of course, Jimmy has a brain...and a well-earned Nobel Peace Prize. I guess there are exceptions to every rule.

[Khephra]

25. Wow!

I'm shocked a bit, Skinner!

:evilgrin:

Does this mean that anything goes when it comes to Zell now here at DU?

[Padraig18]

57. Principal Skinner!

I am SHOCKED! *giggle* :hug::thumbsup:

[ozymandius]

59. I want to put my fist through some photos of Miller at a local Dem tavern.

Atlanta

Manuel's Tavern

They've still got him littering the damned walls like he invented the Democratic party.

Fuck him.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

61. Now can we ban people who call themselves Zell Miller Democrats?

It's now clear their goals and ours are NOT at all the same.

[goobergunch]

62. Yes, according to the following DU Rules

Rule 2, Para. 3: We ban conservative disruptors who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned.

Rule 10, Para. 2: Negative attacks are an unavoidable part of any political campaign, and therefore they are permitted against any Democratic presidential candidate. However, once the Democratic party officially nominates its candidate for president, then the time for fighting is over and the negative attacks against candidates must stop. The administrators of this website do not wish for our message board to be used as a platform to attack and tear down the only progressive on the planet with any hope of defeating George W. Bush. Constructive criticism and even outright disappointment with the candidate may be expressed, but partisan negative attacks will not be welcome. If you wish to contribute to the defeat of the Democratic candidate for president, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website. As the election season draws closer, we may expand this rule to include Democratic candidates for other political offices.

IMHO, Zell Miller is in violation of both of these.

[Missy Vixen]

65. Zell Miller dons the pretty pink tutu once again

>Utter bullshit.<

Skinner, don't tell your wife or my husband, but I :loveya:.

In the meantime, keep telling it like it is!

:toast:

Julie

[IndianaGreen]

79. Does this mean that you will ban this asshole if he posts in DU?

I want to make sure we are all on the same sheet of music.

Any Democratic office holder that endorses Bush for reelection should be drummed out of the Democratic Party for life!

Miller makes Lieberman look like a raging liberal from the ADA.

:mad:

[goobergunch]

88. If he posts, I am alerting on him under the rules

I cited in post #62.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[indigo32]

120. Well Put Skinner

Well Put

[Born_a_Democrat]

2. What are you so mad about?

Look at his voting record..He votes Republican about 95% of the time. I mean do you remember when Jeffords went Independent and upset the Balance of power in the Senate? Well the Repugs were thinking of getting ol' Zell to come outta the closet and declare himself a Repug so they could gain control of the senate again. (on edit: just fixing this sentence)

Frankly I am surprised he didn't do it. Until I thought about the fact that having a "D" behind your name and voting for Repuglicans means the Democrats would look like idiots if they fielded an opponent to you during election time. So there it is...an infiltrator...

[goobergunch]

7. He's still a superdelegate

I am really going to :puke: if he voted for * at the convention next year.

[FrenchieCat]

58. He said he would....

Said it on Faux...said, this is one Democrat who's going to vote for George Bush...I Like him, he's a good man. I don't trust any of these Democrats running for President to take us through the next 5 years where I'll feel safe.

Actually, that is the Repug plan if anyone other than Clark runs against Bush....to question whether Americans want to pass the baton in "The War on Terror" to the a "weakkneed Democrat"......

[IndianaGreen]

84. Excellent point!

Will the Georgia delegation kick Miller out as a superdelegate to the 2004 Democratic Convention?

[Flying_Pig]

74. and what do you want to bet Lieberman does the same thing

if he loses the nomination.

[salin]

92. as much as I am not a fan of Lieberman

I would be shocked to the core if he did this. Even he has a few (though sometimes hard to discern) boundaries. Do let it be noted, however, that the only Senate race in my memory, when I ever was rooting for a republican over a democrat, was the race between Liberal Republican, and high integrity Senator Lowell Wiecker and Joe Lieberman. I watched Wiecker in action many times, and respected him a great deal. Even back them (1988, I believe) it was clear that Wiecker was the liberal and Lieberman was more conservative. But that said, I would expect my own democratic Senator (Evan opportunistic-guy Bayh) to support Bush before I would expect Lieberman to do so.

Yikes, what have you done... I am defending Lieberman!

[mndemocrat_29]

128. I seriously, seriously doubt that Lieberman will endorse Bush

First off, he'd never win reelection. He'd be primary challenged in liberal Connecticut and be tarred and feathered out of office.

[IndianaGreen]

82. Endorsing Bush for President goes well beyond being Bush-lite

Unless Fred Barnes is completely lying about what Miller's intentions are, and Miller comes out suing Barnes for libel, there is no logical explanation about this extraordinary news about Miller.

With Miller on board, Bush will have a head start on forming a Democrats for Bush group in 2004.

John Connally became a Republican and endorsed Richard Nixon for President in 1971, but his switch caused more grief than anger among Democrats.


Governor Connally

[regnaD kciN]

110. When Connally jumped...

...Tip O'Neill said that he found it hard to argue against an event that would increase the average I.Q. of both parties.

:kick:

[BenFranklinUSA]

3. Hmmmm, I wonder...

...if he'll run as a Repub after his "break".

[GeekLife]

30. He's retiring

This is his last term in the Senate. He is retiring. So he wont run as a republican. And we get the added bonus of having a real chance of getting a real democrat in that seat.

[Brucey]

4. Wow. What a freaky world we live in.

Why in the hell would anyone think chimpy is the right person?

[BuckeFushe]

80. Maybe the Chimpster has something on this piece of dreck

that makes him think he is clensing his soul before the Devil takes his sorry, wrinkled ass.

[ibegurpard]

5. And yet we need Democrats like this again, why?

:shrug:

[Cheswick2.0]

48. who ever said we need democrats like this?

No one here ever said it. Miller is simply acting as a repug because he said he would when he was chosen to fill the other guys term.

Now, centrist democrats in conservative states...them we need.

[Jack The Tab]

6. I knew this guy was a DINO, but fer christsakes....an endorsement??

That is soooooooooo out of line and ..I'm completely flabergasted. I'm beyond words...

[Guaranteed]

8. That

motherfucker needs to get CURBED. And I DON'T mean just tossing him out on his ass.

[madrchsod]

11. it`s called

"tuned up" around here. just throw his ass out of the party..oh i forgot that won`t happen,terry is such a nice guy....

[GeekLife]

32. No need to throw him out

Just do what was done to Trafficant. Give him absolutely no committee asignments. Of course he could then cacus with the GOP.

Trafficant was untouchable by both sides so he was truly alienated. Zell has friends and could still get work. But it would be a wonderfully symbolic move if they stripped him of all his assignments.

[Flaming Meaux]

132. So he'd caucus with the GOP.

Big deal. What difference would that make? The bastard already votes with them 95% of the time.

[bluestateguy]

10. F@&king A#@^&*!!!

Don't let this go unanswered. The DNC should formally ask him to change parties. Tom Daschle should strip him of committee assignments. NO Democrat should ever again have anything to do with that opportunistic, sychophantic ASSHOLE!!!

[Hawkeye-X]

12. Start calling and e-mailing Daschle NOW

and get Miller off the Democratic Caucus, strip ALL of his committee assignment and start recruiting HEAVILY to Snowe and Chafee to make the switch now. Miller can go (I) for all I care, or even a (R) next to his fat, ugly name. Miller can go for a year without any committee assignments.

Georgian Dems should be calling for his head and recalling his SORRY ass.

Direct webform to Thomas Daschle:
http://daschle.senate.gov/webform.html (It requires a SD residency but angry letters to him calling for Miller to be removed from ALL assignments and the caucus will help too!)

Daschle's DC phone and fax # (It's public)
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Comments for Daschle here:
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/soapbox/comment/?id=535

Hell, I'm throwing in info on Zell "Benedict" Miller

Webform:
http://miller.senate.gov/email.htm

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
TDDY: [phone]

Atlanta info:
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Finally, I'm posting Miller's comment line here:
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/soapbox/comment/?id=35871

I'm going to post something over there now...

Hawkeye-X

[bluestateguy]

20. Just called

Daschle's office claims to know nothing about it. They said they want to wait until a more mainstream source picks it up. I urged them to strip Zell of his committee assignments.

[Vadem]

29. I called right after you, apparently...

The receptionist said they had just received a call reporting the Weekly Standard article. I also relayed my anger at Benedict Miller and demanded that Daschle strip him of all committee assignments and kick his ass out of the Democratic Party! She said she would pass my message on to Senator Daschle. I also called Miller's office and asked the staff person why he was even in the Democratic Party, that Senator Daschle should relieve him of all duties and kick him over to the Repuke side where he belongs!

[mac56]

36. I just called Miller's office.

Identified myself as a Georgian and a lifelong Dem. (on edit: both are true) The young fellow answering the phone sounded somewhat overwhelmed. Thanked me profusely for "being polite" and not screaming at him!

Add on further edit: I asked him if there's any chance Miller is planning to jump ship and become a Repub. He said no, absolutely no chance.

[Mandate My Ass]

13. Woo this, F@@KER!

The senator's endorsement is important for several reasons. With Miller on board, Bush will have a head start on forming a Democrats for Bush group in 2004. Such a group would woo crossover votes from conservative or otherwise disgruntled Democrats next year. In 2000, an effort by the Bush campaign to form a Democrats for Bush organization fizzled.

[benfranklin1776]

26. "Democrats for Bush" Eh?

That is akin to "Chickens for Colonel Sanders."

I say come back at em hard. If that is the game they are going to play then I say actively recruit disaffected Republicans like Lincoln Chaffee to switch parties and also form a "Republicans for common sense and sanity group" that endorses the Democratic nominee.

[Iverson]

111. akin to "Democrats for Nixon"

Remember them.

[Military Brat]

14. Contact the creep and give him a piece of your mind

If the following link doesn't work, go to http://www.vote-smart.org, and type in his last name. You'll get a page listing names; his will be at the top. Click on it, and it will take you to his page on the Vote Smart web site. But here is the page for Senator Zell from Hell: http://vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=CNIP0616&PHPSESSID=428982976ce211b21b9b7ef0f4f22ab0


Just look at the photo of this 71-year-old anachronistic creep!! All smug and self-righteous, with his arms crossed over his chest. He's only on his first term ... he wasn't even elected, he was appointed to finish Coverdell's term. No wonder he's for bush. It takes a fraud to know a fraud.

[goobergunch]

18. He was elected in 2000

over Mack Mattingly.

[Military Brat]

22. My mistake

But he's still a fraud. Thanks for the correction.

[MGKrebs]

28. I think you are correct, Brat.

6 year Senate term, couldn't come up in 2004 having been elected in 2000.

The governor replaced Coverdell with him. At the time, a bit controversial, because you are supposed to replace a Repub with a Repub and vice versa. But the guv got away with it because Zell is so conservative.

Seemed like a decent idea at the time.

[MaineDem]

15. If I were a member of the Georgia Democratic party...

I would have this guy at our next meeting. He'd have to explain himself.

Do you think he'll seriously change parties?

[goobergunch]

17. No

I think we should force him to.

[goobergunch]

16. I think seats on the Agriculture, Banking, and VA committees...

should now be opened for the Dems.

If he wants to keep his committee assignments, he should get them from the Repukes.

And revoke his 2004 delegate credentials, too.

:puke:

[NewJerseyDem]

33. However.....

He is the reason that we are only down by one in committee assignments. Lott was planning on pressuring for an additional seat on all committees if the republicans won in Louisiana and had 52 senators. Now they would also pressure for an additional seat on every committee.

You can't just kick him off the committee very easily now. That was arranged at the beginning of the congress so I don't know if we could do that.

[mumon]

19. He can go REPUKE!

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[Military Brat]

21. And here's the email I sent him through his web site

Because of Iraq, because of 9/11 stonewalling, because of the Florida Debacle, the assault on our environment, the failure of bush to genuinely support our troops, for many reasons, as a Democrat, I am appalled that you would endorse bush and his policies.

I notice you're 71. You won't have to live in this sorry world bush is creating as long as some of us out here will have to.

Thanks a lot, Benedict!!!

[RobertSeattle]

24. Benedict Miller - good one

Well, Hell, Zell fell for the dumbbell.

[Guaranteed]

34. LOL

That's great.

[Zhade]

27. My letter to Zell. Not suitable for small children.

TRAITOR.

You endorsed a lying, AWOL, ex-cokehead commander-in-thief - a man who stole his way into power and has lied the United States into two wars, eradicating our freedoms systematically while looting the Treasury for illegal invasions and occupations.

You have sold your soul to a group of raving ideologues gleefully leading this country to its very destruction. You don't get it, do you? You are nothing to them, and you will be used and then discarded once your usefullness has expired.

You betray our Founding Fathers by siding with an enemy of America and a traitor against the Constitution.

[PartyPooper]

91. I hope you addressed it to the "Dino Sore"!

He doesn't have any more relevance or significance to the Democratic Party than the 'man in the moon'. None! He is simply a blight on humanity!

:evilfrown:

[_NorCal_D_]

31. Switch parties you turncoat.

Don't embarrass us any more.

This is OUTRAGEOUS.
:( :grr:

[fishnfla]

35. Attn Sen Miller Re: your grandchildren

That tax cut you voted for has already determined the world they are going to live in. They are going to pay the debts for this maldmin.

That includes the 87 bill you old goat.

[maxrandb]

37. GOOD FOR ZELL

What the hell was he doing in the Democratic Party anyway? He's stands for Democratic ideals and policies about as much as "former Democrat" Strom Thurmond did.

It's all about survival for this f&*k*r! He looked at the tea leave in his Freeper state and went with the flow.

Kick him out of the party. Don't let the frickin door hit you in the A$$ dickwad.

[w4rma]

38. IMHO, he was successful in giving Georgia a GOP majority for the 1st time

in over 100 years so I suppose he would go all the way and try to get Bush elected for the first time. He's an ignorant turncoat, IMHO. :thumbsdown:

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. This is a perfect example of a DINO

NOPE Zell has never been a Democrat.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[diplomats]

40. Didn't Zell Miller just write a book about how the Dem Party

is out of touch? If he endorses Bush, that means he has absolutely no credibility as a Dem. I just don't understand this guy. If Bush were a moderate Repub, that might be one thing. But he's a damn right winger. You don't see John Breaux or Ben Nelson doing this, and they're conservative Dems.

[TacticalPeek]

41. He thinks he's hitched his wagon to aWol's star,

but its really a black hole.

Every interviewer during his current 15 seconds of national attention should ask him if he is comfortable supporting someone who was AWOL for over a year during Viet Nam. At least spank him on his way to the bank.

[Sick of Bullshit]

60. It's a star called "Wormwood"

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers and upon the fountains of waters. 11And the name of the star is called Wormwood. And the third part of the waters became wormwood, and many men died of the waters because they were made bitter.

(From the book of Revelation)

[salin]

93. The really odd thing is... he isn't running for office

so there is no inherent motivation (eg get votes) for doing this. There is something very odd going on with him. To my understanding, while centrist as a Governor, there was no indication of radical tendencies. Let's be real, Bush and his policies are NOT centrist or even lightly right leaning policies. They are radical.

Zell has, with no upcoming race, moved to the point of dissing the whole democratic party in his book, to endorsing a FAR right wing president whose policies seem to be intent on destroying our current system (see Paul Krugman's book for a very cogent discussion on this point- on how these policies are not mere strategic efforts - but full scale attempts to dismantle many core aspects of our system.) So what the heck is his motivation?

[newyorican]

121. A job?

A possible Rummy replacement? :shrug:

[union_maid]

42. That is really disgusting

If he can't support his party's nominee for president, then he really should make it official and join the Republican party.

[RadioFlyer]

44. Jeffords vs. Miller?

I was wondering how Jim Jeffords' switch to (I) shortly after the 2000 Election would have been taken by the people of the Democratic Party had he done the same from (D) to (I), with the same effect on the Senate's balance of power. Would he still be an independent man of conscience?

In the same vein, would you, as a matter of principle, demand that an (R) who endorsed a (D) candidate surrender his/her committee assignments?

Thanks.

[Cheswick2.0]

49. ooooh it's the "lets be fair" post

bah pug bug

PS.. welcome to DU

[RadioFlyer]

52. Thanks...

... for the welcome. I certainly don't want a "let's be fair" post to interrupt the proceedings. But I really do want to know, seriously. Anyone?

[RadioFlyer]

55. By the way

I'm not going to go all ingenue on you and pretend I don't know what a pug bug is. I can figure that out.

But why do you think that applies to me?

[Dookus]

50. no...

switching parties is the honorable thing to do. Remaining in a party and screwing it at every turn is dishonorable.

If Miller wants to become a republican or an independent, he should do so. But pretending to be a Democrat and fucking over the party whenever he has a chance isn't worthy of respect.

[mbperrin]

51. D to I could be conscience......no money payoff evident..

R to endorse D - I'm no R and never have been, they could demand whatever they wanted!

I want Zell gone!

[RadioFlyer]

53. Thanks

for the answer. I appreciate it.

[goobergunch]

63. Yes on your second question

And I'd also hope they joined the Democratic party so we could give them their committee assignments!

[RadioFlyer]

66. Thanks for your honesty

Fairness (and no, the world's not fair - I don't even think it's supposed to be) demands that this breaks both ways.

[diplomats]

68. Zell hasn't switched parties

It's intellectually dishonest for him to stay in the Democratic Party when he does not share the same values with other Dems - even his conservative Dem colleagues in the Senate. He should've switched and then done this. That's my opinion.

[RadioFlyer]

123. Every time

Miller has been asked to switch, he's said no, even when it would have rebalanced the Senate count after Jeffords switched. I remember he said that his family has also been (D), and that's where he would stay.

[Flying_Pig]

76. Hey R.F.

:puke:

[RadioFlyer]

124. Hey F.P.

Must have been something you ate...?

[KC21304]

77. It would be up to the (R)'s to demand that the (R) who endorsed a (D)

give up his/her committee assignments.

[RadioFlyer]

125. Fair enough

[davidinalameda]

43. time to kick his ass out of the Democratic caucus

and take away all of his committee assignments

if he wants to be a Republican, let the fuckers have him

[Dookus]

45. My email to Zell

If it's true, as the Weekly Standard is reporting, that you've endorsed George W. Bush for President in 2004, then you should just switch parties NOW instead of remaining the embarrassment that you are to the Democratic Party. Shame on you!!

Your children and grandchildren will not only have to struggle to pay off the deficits created by this administration, they'll also inherit the ill will of the entire world caused by this maladministration, and finally, they'll have to cope with the shame that their father and grandfather was an opportunistic piece of shit traitor.

You're just a tool - a useful idiot - for the gang of thieves that have stolen our country and our constitution. History will judge you very harshly, I can assure you.

Irately yours,

*name*

[David Zephyr]

46. This Endorsement Doesn't Make Him An Asshole, He Always Was an Asshole

So to all those who have defended him here for nearly three years, what do you have to say now?

The term Democrat in Name Only (DINO) is an appropriate label, not just for Miller, but for others who continually betray their party and the people.

I will not hesitate from this moment on to use that term.

Betrayal is bad enough.

Defending these sons of bitches right up until they shit all over you is pathetic and weak.

Every Democrat in the U.S. Congress is not on our side.

Voting for unjustifiable war, voting for the suspension of our civil liberties, voting to redistribute wealth to the favor of the most priviledged 5% of the population is NOT the way Democrats should act.

And there are people who are amazed at Howard Dean's meteroic rise against the Party Establishment's wishes? Duh!

[eissa]

56. Great message Dookus

Zephyr, I said exactly what you did in an earlier e-mail to Daschle. I told him that now was the time to show some spine and start fighting back, beginning with members of our own party who betray us, as that Zell fucker did. I even mentioned Howard in my message to him (well, to be fair, I mention Howard at every opportunity; I love him!). Let's see what, if anything, the democratic leadership will do.

[alarimer]

47. Appalling!

Why is this guy even a Dem if he does not believe in one thing the party stands for??? I don't get it at all. I can't understand why Democrats in Georgia would even vote for him. Well I guess to keep the seat nominally in Democratic hands. He sucks.

[Book Lover]

54. My letter to the DINO

I am writing to express my deep disappointment at your endorsement George W. Bush's reelection bid. I realize that in the day-to-day operations of Washington D.C., many things happen that would offend party purists; that is the give and take of getting the people's work done. However, your action betrays a basic trust that other party members put in each other, indeed, *must* put in each other in order for the party itself to remain strong. If you truly feel the current president deserves another term in office, I strongly encourage you to switch to the opposition party and let those of us who are not DINOs to continue our work.

I aimed for injured dignity, hoping that it would make it through the filter.

[Iverson]

64. disgusting, objectionable, and logical

This is the predictable eventual result of "triangulation" without end. A party of the center that moves ever-rightward will eventually include actual right-wingers.

The main surprising element is everyone's pose of shock.

[enki23]

67. zell miller shows signs of syphilitic dementia

zell miller was admitted to our lady of perpetual suffering at seven am wednesday morning. mr miller's housekeeper, ms. teresa vanderhoofen, became concerned this morning when she noticed feces caked on the esteemed mr. miller's footwear. "zell was always so particular about his shoes," noted ms. vanderhoofen. "my nerves just went off like a horny coon dog on a mink fur coat," she added. upon further inspection, the obviously rattled houskeeper found mr miller lying beside his bed suffering what appeared to be mild seizures. doctors speculate that this episode may be related to zell mistakenly replacing his traditional breakfast with a bowl of "shinola" brand shoe polish. he is expected to make a full recovery.

[Flying_Pig]

69. May I suggest, that if we win in 04' that it might be time for a little

"payback" on traitors like Miller. Once a Dem administration is in place, I am sure Mr. Miller's IRS records will need a complete "review". And then there might be some "dirty linen" that might need to be exposed (although, if it's there, right now would be a good time to drop dirty laundry bombs). I'll bet a Southern hack like Miller has all kinds of things that need to be exposed.

What a fascist piece of shit this man is. I suppose it would be one thing for someone like Miller to support a Repug prez, if that prez was a half-way decent human being, but Bush? Miller is a sick man.

:evilgrin:

[FredScuttle]

72. Don't forget Ben Nighthorse Campbell

at least he had the decency to change letters after his name

[Hawkeye-X]

75. I *marginally* give him credit

for at least fleeing from the Dem Party to the Republican Party and being a turncoat.

He's outta the Senate in '04. We'll see a newly elected Senator Udall.

Hawkeye-X

[CBHagman]

70. Good riddance to bad rubbish

...is the least profane of the things I could post. Don't let the door hit you on the tuchis as you leave the Capitol, Z.M.

[Syn_Dem]

71. Im utterly speechless n/t

[matcom]

73. I WILL PISS ON HIS GRAVE

someday

along with:

Reagun
BushI
BushII
Olie North
Newt
Lott
Delay
etc........

FUCK YOU ASSWIPE

[IndianaGreen]

83. Don't forget that Miller contributed money to defeat Cynthia McKinney

It was Miller who got his protege Denise Majette to challenge McKinney in the 2002 primary in which an influx of crossover GOP votes put Majette on top.

Remember 2002!

[burntbuckwheats]

85. That's not really a bad thing

McKinney was really hard on the Jewish voters and Israel and most likely cost us many votes. The fact that McKinney lost is a win for Democrats.

[RichV]

100. No kidding.

I live in McKinney's old district. Whether Zell gave money to Majette or not, McKinney and her father dug their own graves around here.

As for the topic at hand... Zell, you suck.

[tlb]

107. Miller contributed to another democrat.

That's fair. Then it was up to the voters to choose, and they substituted another democrat for Mckinney.

After all, it wasn't Miller blamed for her loss. They said it was the J-E-W-S. Remember ?

Good riddance Mckinney.

[RadioFlyer]

126. McKinney

was asking for a disaster with that campaign. Just an unbelievable slam against the Jews, and justifiable political suicide.

[Jack Rabbit]

78. I haven't seen this anyplace but the Weekly Standard

However, if it's true, Miller should be kicked out of the Democratic Caucus.

I couldn't disagree more with the remarks about Bush attributed to Senator Miller. Bush is a threat to American democratic institutions. For a member of what is supposed to be the opposition party to support his election in 2004 (it is not a re-election, dammit!) is collaboration pure and simple.

[burntbuckwheats]

81. Look at the bright side

At least the media will not play this up like the Jeffords jump and hopefully it will be kept mum outside of these forums.

[Best_man23]

86. Max Cleland

Please run for this senate seat, your country needs you.

[goobergunch]

87. CONFIRMATION FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=38548

[burntbuckwheats]

89. We're toast

We better get off the negative and on to the positive and lay off the gun owners or we'll be gasping again in 2004. Negative didn't work against Clinton and I'm sure it isn't going to work against Bush.

Find a positive message or pray for a blessing in 2008.

[mac56]

94. Welcome, burntbuckwheats -

I can tell you're new here. How did "gun owners" work its way into this discussion?

There's not a lot of sympathy here toward rolling over and playing nice this time around. As the Repugs would say, "We liked it better when you didn't fight back."

Stick around, you're bound to learn a lot. Welcome again.

[burntbuckwheats]

95. I have learned plenty from the 2000 and 2002 loss

It seems many here have not. Right now a hard left is a sure death. IMHO.

[salin]

97. sadly the soft/center left

strategy didn't do so well in 2002 either (think: Georgia, Missouri etc.)

I think it is much bigger than soft or hard right. I think it has to do with talk media (talk radio/pundit tv) that goes after anything (even irrelevancy) about a candidate. Done in a way that amplifies, validates the more extreme and silly attacks on democratic officer holders and candidates. Who could imagine framing war hero Max Cleland, as a traitorous terroris enabler. But they did - and sadly - it worked (or at least contributed to the outcome.)

[mac56]

98. Senator Lieberman? Is that you?

;-)

Add on edit: I'm still wondering how "gun owners" worked its way into this discussion.

[demgrrrll]

90. Nice of him to help his friend out when the news cycle was going

stongly against him. They must have promised him the moon and then some for this little hustle. I can't wait to see where this bastid lands after his "retirement". What a jerk.

[yellowdog]

96. How can this asshole

call himself a Democrat?? I just wish to hell he would switch sides of the aisle and get it over with. I really can not think of a single time he has voted our way.

[Kinkistyle]

101. By what right does he call himself a Democrat!?

I don't get it. Aside from declaring himself a Dem, is there anything else about his political stance that makes him a Dem? I mean he seems to be a classic Repug.

[goforit]

99. He and his family will have to look over their shoulders for life.

Oh Well!!!

It's well earned!!!

[Blitz]

108. Why will they have to look over their shoulders?

eom.

[Tinoire]

102. I'm sorry but I'm laughing my ass off in a sick, cynical way

Why are people here so pissed and/or surprised? The writing has been there for all to see for years and many DUers saw it. The unfortunate thing is that in about a week, this will be forgotten. I don't know how loud to yell to tell people to wake up and look at what is going on around us. This is what comes of not holding people's feet to the fire and turning a blind eye to what they do simply because there's a D after their name. My heart really can't take much more of these people and this is one main reason that I can't pledge blind allegiance ABB. It should take more than a D to be considered a Democrat. Anyway, I really don't like the trend I've been seeing these last few weeks. How many more surprises are we going to have? When are we going to wise up and throw these bums out?

Lockyer: I voted for Schwarzenegger

BERKELEY -- Democratic Attorney General Bill Lockyer said Saturday that he voted against the recall of Gov. Gray Davis but crossed party lines on the question of who should replace the incumbent, choosing Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger.

<snip>

"He represented for me what he did for others: hope, change, reform, opportunity, upbeat problem-solving," Lockyer said of the movie star and governor-elect, his surprise confession sending a jolt through a room of about 150 political consultants, academics and journalists gathered at the University of California, Berkeley, for a post-election analysis.

<snip>

http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/recall/story/7629545p-8570117c.html

"Jolting Democrat News: Bill Lockyer Voted for Schwarzenegger"

The Democrats may still be in shock from learning on Saturday that their state's attorney general, Bill Lockyer, bolted his party and voted for Arnold Schwarzenegger for governor. Dan Walters, dean of Sacramento political writers, tells the story in his column below, abridged from the Sacramento Bee website.

BERKELEY -- Dozens of political junkies--campaign consultants, pollsters, journalists, academicians and so forth--gathered at the University of California on Saturday for what they expected to be a lively and detailed postmortem on the historic and often bizarre election that dumped Gray Davis from the governorship and selected movie star Arnold Schwarzenegger as his successor. Their expectations were more than met as operatives for the competing factions on the recall and the major candidates to replace Davis--plus a panel of lawyers, reflecting the litigious nature of the event--dissected the eight-month-long, ever-twisting path to the Oct. 7 election.

But, as if to prove that this most unusual campaign still has surprises to offer, what left attendees buzzing afterward was not what the campaign strategists had to say, but Democratic Attorney General Bill Lockyer's startling declaration, during a luncheon speech, that he had voted for Republican Schwarzenegger himself after looking at the "crappy list" of alternatives, including Democratic Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante. ((Ok, now I'm NO fan of Bustamante but damn, I'd vote Green before EVER voting Republican if I hated all the Dems!))

<snip>

Later, Lockyer said that the late-blooming allegations that Schwarzenegger had harassed women during his acting career did not alter his decision, characterizing the allegations as undoubtedly true--Schwarzenegger himself partially acknowledged that--and "frat boy behavior." "I gave him the benefit of the doubt," Lockyer told reporters.

<snip>

http://chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=4780&catcode=33

And of course, let's not forget Mississippi


Democrats endorse Barbour (Mississippi)


Democrats endorse Barbour: Republican Haley Barbour on Wednesday released a list of 42 Democrats he says are supporting him over Democratic Gov. Ronnie Musgrove in the Nov. 4 general election.

Among them are former Lt. Gov. Brad Dye and former Supreme Court Justices Lenore Prather and Jim Roberts.

Roberts lost to Musgrove in the 1999 Democratic primary for governor and to state Sen. Barbara Blackmon in this year's Democratic primary for lieutenant governor.

About 30 of the Democrats backing Barbour stood behind him during a news conference at the state Capitol.

<snip>

"Haley Barbour is the most partisan Mississippi Republican of his generation, and has built a career out of vicious and unprincipled attacks upon Democratic candidates and the Democratic Party, the current campaign being only the most recent example," Cole said. "Many of us still remember his campaign of calculated insults against the legendary John C. Stennis."

<snip>

http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0310/23/m12a.html

[Iverson]

114. like I said before ...

It was a logical result of the strategy advanced by most centrists and especially by the DLC. When one triangulates without end, one eventually ends up in strange, new waters.

Tinoire, do you think that more than a couple of readers on DU will conclude that abandoning the discourse of the left was maybe a bad idea for the Democratic Party?

[Tinoire]

116. Unfortunately no

Especially since the the arrival of a certain DLC candidate who's backing is heavily Conservative and pro-MIC.

I think we have been totally infiltrated and it's getting worse. Check out all the newer posters starting threads to discredit ANSWER with cries of Communists. Once that lost it's glow, we now have posters with 30 posts announcing "I used to work with ANSWER and let me give you the inside scoop". Or people with 70 posts zig-zagging through threads demanding people's allegiance to ABB because they're "freekin terrified". There is a concerted attempt to fracture and weaken the Left going on.

The Corporate Elite is "freaking terrified" right now. People are sick to death of Bush and his entire crowd. This is the best time for a Progressive to make it through which is exactly what they're fighting with their scare tactics, infiltrations, and high-school pledges.

All the Democratic rats at the top are going to start coming out of their caves hoping to influence their faithful followers into following them. The others are going to start screaming that we MUST move more to the right to stem this flow (as if it weren't a good thing!). For every swing voter we might gain by shifting more to the right (we're waaaay past center) how many Progressives are we going to lose? I forsee the Green Party picking up even more votes this election cycle because the Right, not only refuses to compromise but, is making serious in-roads, but also because Progressives are feeling less and less at home while these people re-arrange all the furniture in the house to suit a few guests who just may show up. Meanwhile many guests will leave because of the total disrespect to their loyalty and needs.

I think old DUers will examine this but with the influx of all these Conservatives will the dialog get going again? They're doing a damn good job of disrupting that very dialog that kept us united. And as far as the official Democratic Party is concerned- not a chance. They'll pay a little lip service to the Left as Clinton suggested but no more than that and people will continue jumping on board because hollow words is all it seems to take these days. Some of these politicians could defacate right in the living room, turn around and say they didn't and people would believe them.

Watch it, we're going to expand the aggression against the Middle East regardless of who gets into office because the only 2 politicians who guarantee that won't happen are being marginalized (even though one of them "speaks so well") and deemed unelectable. Who deemed them unelectable? The Corporate Elite? And why are so many unwittingly doing the bidding of the corporate elite? For the same reason that we are (un)wittingly tolerating people like Zell Miller- a total lack of principles, honest examination of the issues, and dedication to fixing the problem. If not now, when? We'll go to our death-beds before anything changes.

Sorry state of affairs and it's getting sorrier. Sorry to be so gloom and doom but this is what I see.

[RadioFlyer]

127. Well-written post...

... but I have a question. I just started reading the ANSWER thread you referred to, and really have to wonder about this. Since the funding for ANSWER comes in part from the World Worker's Party, which openly supported Stalin, who is responsible millions of dead ... is that something that any American who believes in freedom can support?

I'm serious. My maternal grandfather was a Ukrainian Jew who came to Ellis Island when he was 8. Childhood friends of ours in CT and NY still had tattoos - on their arms and on their souls - from the camps. Others had family murdered by Stalin's regime. How is that right?

I don't want to cause thread creep, but since you brought it up in relation to the state of affairs for the (D) party, does ANSWER's opposition to the war, and the administration in general, trump their ideological stance?

Thanks.

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RadioFlyer]

134. I wish

...I had time today to fully respond to your post, but kid duty calls. Thank you for taking the time to write it. Just a quick thought, though:

>>Kind of like Zionism or Capitalism... Shall we blame Capitalism for the excesses of immoral, thieving Capitalists? Or Zionism for the excesses of immoral Zionists? <<

That's a really good question, but half a step removed from my own question. What interested me was the reason for supporting an organization (ANSWER) so closely tied to another organization (WWP) that has been vocal in its support of Stalin, the Chinese occupantion of Tibet, and the murders of Tianneman (sp?) Square.

[sujan]

103. ha!

Further strengthens Nader's statement that the difference between the two parties is of magnitude 0.

Why is everybody so surprised?

[tlb]

106. I doubt Miller will be the last.

Any thread touching on the south usually degenerates into redneck bashing and general statements how barbaric and stupid the people there are. The most smug and hateful posts can be made against white southerners and nobody is shocked.

Since no one region of the nation has a monopoly on these factors, why be surprised when regional loyalty to the party fades. Miller himself warned of this in his book, which made valid points how the national party was writing off the south.

There is more to the country then California, New York, and inner cities. If the concerns of the other people aren't addressed by democrats, why be shocked or upset when they look elsewhere.

Did NOBODY pay attention to, or learn from the exedous of democrat voters and elected officers during the Clinton years.

[Frodo]

115. He won't be the last and he wasn't the first.

If we don't change substantially (and I mean SOON) this is going to get much worse. I remember the big deal everyone made about how Jim Jeffords principled stand was a sign that the Republican Party wasn't paying attention to the moderate wing of the party.

Well we need to pay close attention because Zell is not so different from huge numbers of Southern Democrats. In the last several years there have literally been hundreds of elected Democrats switching parties (mostly in the south). We can't just say "screw 'em, who needs 'em" every time we hear about one. We would still be in the majority if we had kept our own house in order.

In the last decade (or so) the Republicans have picked up about 1,000 state legislative seats (I think giving them the majority for the first time in generations). Roughly HALF of those seats were not by election, but by the sitting Democrat deciding (s)he was really a Republican the way the parties look now.

There are millions of people who CALL themselved "Democrats" because there parents and granparents and great-grandparents were Demcorats. momentum only counts for so much. We cannot ignore them forever.

[goobergunch]

130. Sadly, you're right

Zell Miller is an a**hole. But he isn't necessarily atypical.

[regnaD kciN]

109. Tit for tat...

"This Democrat will vote for President Bush in 2004."

And, since Miller has apparently decided that it's just fine for Democrats to vote for Republicans, I hope that Georgia Democrats will remember that, and vote for Miller's opponent the next time he stands for re-election.

I'm normally not a fan of the "we must destroy this party in order to save it" logic of some of the more Green types who would urge us to reject not-progressive-enough Democrats even at the risk of replacing them with a Republican, but I'm more than willing to make an exception in this case.

:grr:

[Blitz]

112. For the umpteenth time

He's not running for re-election.

[Jawja]

113. As a constituent of Miller....

I just want to weigh in.

Good morning, ya'll.

Zell Miller Stinks.

[beyurslf]

117. And here I thought

Lieberman was the worst Democrat in the Country.

[YuNgWuN]

118. I don't understand the anger

I am sure George Bush has over 50 endorsements from elected politicians, why the anger over this endorsement?

[Booberdawg]

122. Because he is supposedly a Democrat!!!

If THAT doesn't piss YOU off then you are in the wrong place!

[smiley_glad_hands]

119. What is his agenda?

Behind every politician is an agenda. What is Miller's? I thought he was retiring soon? Is he going to run for another office as Repug? Oh wait, I know, he wants a position in Bush's next admin if he wins in 2004. Bush will be able to say that he is bipartisan then I suppose. I really hope the Dem pary has a strategy to make Ga competitive--if we can get two or three southern states we can win in a landslide.

[genius]

129. Is anyone surprised?

At least he's finally being honest.